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Wednesday a.m. things

It is amazing to me that it has been less than 60 hours since the Michael Young trade demand story broke.  It seems like we've been talking about this for a week.

Ken Rosenthal, who originally broke the story, follows up on it this morning, and has a take that is similar to what is being said nationally, and dissimilar from what the local papers are saying:

Rangers shortstop Michael Young drew criticism from both inside and outside the industry for requesting a trade after the team asked him to move to third base. But as usual, these things aren't as simple as they appear.

Many believe that Young is acting selfishly by defying the wishes of a team that signed him to a five-year, $80 million contract; club officials never hid from Young that they eventually expected him to change positions.

But Young, an eight-year veteran, bristles at the notion of losing his job to Elvis Andrus, who has yet to play above Class AA. As one general manager said, what if Andrus hits .150 in April and the Rangers send him to Class AAA? Would Young move back to short, and then back to third once Andrus returned?

Young probably fails to see how Andrus would make the Rangers a better team. He also signed long-term under the premise that the Rangers would increase their overall spending, something that has not occurred.

Another question: What is the Rangers' rush with Andrus? The Brewers are not moving or trading J.J. Hardy — albeit a better defender than Young — to clear a spot for their top shortstop prospect, Alcides Escobar. Before doing anything, they want to make sure Escobar is ready.

A trade of Young remains highly unlikely; he is owed $59 million in salary over the next five years and $9.24 million in deferred payments beginning in 2016. One Rangers official said the chances of Young being the team's Opening Day third baseman are at least 90 percent.

Young's only recourse would be to refuse to report to spring training, a move that would result in an even bigger blow to his reputation. The Rangers, meanwhile, are not interested in one possible compromise — a move of Young to second and Ian Kinsler to left field.

Young's only problem at short — his limited range — also would be an issue at second. Kinsler, the Rangers believe, is making progress at second and would not be as good as Young at third. Young has a stronger arm than Kinsler and better hands.

The last paragraph is key, and reiterates what I've been saying for a while...Young isn't likely to be any better at second than at shortstop, because of his limited range, and it neutralizes his arm, which is his best defensive tool right now.

I think that the difference nationally -- where Young is, as Rosenthal acknowledges, catching flak -- and locally, where the media seems almost entirely on either Young's side, or of the belief that even if Young is wrong, the team must kowtow to him anyway, reflects the way Young is viewed by those who cover him regularly.  He's respected, he's seen as the ultimate team guy, and he's viewed as someone who has been better at his job than Jon Daniels and Ron Washington are at theirs.

If this were Billy Beane or Theo Epstein here in Texas asking Young to move -- or even Doug Melvin, who is still deified by the local sports press -- I suspect the condemnation coming down from on high would be a lot more muted, or even non-existent.

One exception to this drumbeat is Gil LeBreton, who is the one S-T columnist who has consistently veered away from the S-T company line the past few years when it comes to the Rangers (and who seems to take a swipe at a couple of his S-T colleagues in his column), who points out how ridiculous the demand appears:

Two years ago Young signed a five-year, $80-million contract extension. The Rangers intend to pay him every penny.

His starting job in the Rangers infield is not being taken away from him. On the contrary, a move from shortstop to third base likely will entrench Young even more.

Yet, he wants to be traded, he told reporters Sunday night.

He’s a shortstop, not a third baseman, Young said he told general manager Jon Daniels and manager Ron Washington. He says that he was told that he was being moved to third base, rather than asked to do so.

"That was a fine line that I thought had been crossed," Young said.

A line between what, exactly? Being paid or being paid? Being a starting player for a major league team or being a starting player?

* * *

The reactions of the public have spanned both polar extremes, as is often the case with the Rangers. The anti-Tom Hicks, anti-Daniels, anti-Washington, anti-everything-at-the-ballpark faction sees it as the latest in a long line of franchise fiascos. When, they wonder, is owner Hicks going to spend some money and get some pitching in here?

These complainers are best answered by the wise man who once said, "To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."

There is an intriguing building job taking place in Arlington, and it’s not just Jerry Jones’ football stadium.

At the other extreme, Rangers fans who’ve been tracking the franchise’s rise know the rationality of Young being moved to third base.

Young Andrus is only 20 years old. A year away? Perhaps. But let the countdown clock begin.

* * *

Shortstop to third base is not an uncommon move. Tony Fernandez, a three-time Gold Glove winner and a better shortstop than Young, made the switch at age 32.

Yes, Young did win his first Gold Glove last season. And Rafael Palmeiro won one in 1999 when he played only 28 games at first base.

There are columns of Bill James statistics that suggest that Young is weak when moving to his left. Even the Budweiser-addled fan in right field must have noticed that the Rangers lead the majors in hits allowed up the middle.

Kevin Sherrington has a column today that is more sympathetic to Young, although he also relates an anecdote about how a few years back he was talked out of writing a column suggesting Mark Teixeira move to right field to make room for Adrian Gonzalez.  The person who talked him out of writing the column?  Michael Young, who said that Teixeira had worked hard at first base and shouldn't have to switch positions.

Jeff Wilson runs down a list of possible free agent acquisitions the Rangers could make.  However, the list consists of Ben Sheets and...some guys who you aren't going to be real fired up about.

 

 

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Nice column

by LeBreton. I still think that between now and ST, Young comes around, makes some conciliatory remarks about doing what’s best for the team, and moves on over.

There will be, however, much kerfuffle and discombobulation when Andrus has the usual rookie struggles. Every time he strikes out or makes an error there will be a chorus of “I told you so” from the Galloway anti-everything crowd and the idiots on talk radio.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 14, 2009 9:48 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I am already tired....

….of the articles that will be written when Andrus goes 0-fer or worse, commits one or two errors in a game where Young commits none. That sounds like prime Star Telegram fodder, if only because it’s so ridiculous.

by FuturePants on Jan 14, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If Andrus plays 145 games at SS in The Show

I’m bracing for 35 errors and an OPS < .600.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd be impressed

Anyone that can field a ball in the snow is my kind of shortstop.
Think about it. You have to be able to break on the ball with your feet bound and slipping. You have to be able to discern between a white ball and white snow. You have to be able to get up from your dive in the snow and dig the ball out of your snow-filled glove to make the throw. Give me that guy any day.
How does he hit in the snow? What if he achieves above replacement player stats in the snow?

by bigskinny on Jan 14, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Snow

I’d be more impressed if Andrus can play uphill downhill both ways in the snow.

Or if he can play while fending off an attack by snow monkeys.

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Jan 14, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If he could

it would certainly warrant moving MY to third…especially of the wildlife attacks during a game in Arlington. To have Elvis in the building would be a great baseball play and a great animal security play for the fans

by bigskinny on Jan 14, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If Nolan could arrange fielding practice

with snow monkeys running around the infield I would pay money to see that. I’m sure MY would get taken out early while Elvis gracefully sidesteps the oncoming monkey.

by RangersOCD on Jan 14, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

lmao

i love every reference to snow monkeys-rec

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

this a rule?

how come no rec for RC for bringing up the majestic frozen monkeys?

by bushe on Jan 14, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm curious

What exactly do you know of Andrus? Isn’t he just one of those magic beans (aka any player not presently in The Show)?

by brettgardner on Jan 14, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh

if only the Rangers had moved Teixeira to OF to make room for Gonzalez.

Other than that, most of this story is just extremely tiresome by now. Young ain’t going to be traded, because he isn’t worth his contract, and by the time we eat enough to make it worthwhile, we aren’t going to get much in return.

The only question is whether the Rangers have the spine to go Frank Robinson on him this year or next. If they don’t, they probably just ought to fire JD and be done with it.

Get off my lawn.

by DJCahill on Jan 14, 2009 9:48 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

That Gonzalez point really annoys me

I could have cared less about Tex moving for Delgado. But he should have moved for Gonzalez – who is I think a better defensive first baseman and unlike Tex isn’t able to field other positions while arguably as good a hitter (all heresy statements, I know). I’ve long been angry at the Rangers for not forcing Teixeira to move, and now that is one more strike against Young, especially if he was working that same angle in the clubhouse.

by JBImaknee on Jan 14, 2009 10:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pissed

they didn’t even DH A-Gon. They were running out there with Nevin.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 14, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If we're really trying (as JD says)

to “get all our championship caliber players lined up and on the field together” how come we’re not hearing anything about Jules Borbon?

He’s 2.5 years older than Andrus, far more accomplished at the plate and supposedly a greyhound in CF – If Josh’s defensive #‘s aren’t so hot, why not line up another one of our “championship caliber players”?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 9:52 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think it is painfully obvious

it is because we have 4 capable OFers on the roster. We have a need for a 3B. That’s the difference.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 14, 2009 9:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Diggler,

So we’re ready to call Boggs, Murphy and Cruz “championship caliber” ?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How could I forget about Ron Washington's

fave Marlon Byrd?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But more importantly...

…You’re ready to call Borbon championship caliber, Josey?

by FuturePants on Jan 14, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea if Borbon

is a “championship caliber player” or not.

From what I’ve read about him he’s fleet of foot, plays good defense and his biggest need was more plate discipline. It looks like he did quite well last year so he’s on my radar but I’m not sure we’re looking at Bravo Kenny Lofton circa ’94 just yet.

I do think he would have a better chance of success in The Show than Andrus next year.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with you, Josey

…is you make in appropriate distinctions. You rip someone for tapping the brakes on your Borbon argument because you suggest they are saying our existing outfielders are championship calibur. Then, you won’t even back up your own argument for Borbon.

If you want to get into the championship calibur argument and you want to suggest Borbon should come up, then you must think that Borbon is a championship calibur player today. If you don’t want to have the balls to outright say it, then just keep quiet, child.

by FuturePants on Jan 14, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Pants,

I’m not sure that Andrus or Borbon is a championship caliber player – JD doesn’t “know” either.

I do believe that Borbon is more ready as a hitter than Andrus and Borbon is supposed to be a defensive stud as well.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

not really what he is arguing

Basically it comes down to putting the best team on the field.

Murph, Cruz, Byrd may not be “championship caliber” or whatnot, but they are certainly serviceable MLB regulars.

The options at 3B are much less appealing.

Bringing up Elvis keeps a AAA non-prospect out of the starting lineup. Bringing up Borbon would keep a serviceable MLB type player out of the lineup.

by Royal Swine on Jan 14, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why Dirk, Why?

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 9:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

nevermind.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 14, 2009 9:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I expect Borbon

to be in CF for the Rangers sometime this summer.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 14, 2009 9:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Julio Borbon sucks

I have it on good authority from Brian Thomas.

Get off my lawn.

by DJCahill on Jan 14, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Can you spell curmudgeon?

Uh oh, now I’m on his radar!

:)

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 10:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

RangerMad,

Which player, between Borbon/Andrus, would you expect to have a better chance at success if both players received 300 abs?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 10:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

in 2009

Borbon. Over their careers I am not sure. Borbon is older, played college ball and has a little more pop in his bat. He needs to work on his plate discipline. In 2011 I can see Borbon batting leadoff and Andrus batting second for the Rangers if things fall in place just right.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 14, 2009 10:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you look around and read unbiased takes

on Andrus, he’s a polarizing player. Some forecast close to superstar success while others think he’ll be a so-so to average player. The truth is probably somewhere inbetween.

It’s not an absolute, but the only players that can splash around a big league pool as a 20 year old without drowning tend to eventually become superstars.

Why not get a stopgap or just wait until 2011 to bring him up?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"Why not get a stopgap or just wait until 2011 to bring him up?"

Waiting til 2011 seems to be really excessive, but are you saying you’d be ok with moving Young to 3b and bringing in a stopgap at SS?

by cstorm15 on Jan 14, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't have a problem moving Young

but I understand him balking at moving for a 20 year old who made 32 errors and barely has an OPS above .700.

On Opening Day 2011, Andrus will be 22.5 years old and would not become a free agent until the 2017 season.

Also, the earlier in his career that Andrus hits free agency, the more costly he is going to be. A free agent that hits the market at the age of 25-26 is going to be much more costly than the free agent who hits the market at age 28.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Can you just answer the damn question?

Would you be ok with moving Young to 3b and bringing in a stopgap at SS? I don’t want to have to sift through all your crap in order to deduce a yes or a no. This is not a trick question.

by cstorm15 on Jan 14, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A little edgy, cstorm15

If I said that I don’t have a problem with Young moving to 3B isn’t it implied that I’m okay with a stopgap?

Yeah, I’ll occasionally write in layers where somebody isn’t sure if they’ve been insulted or not and I might throw in some foreshadowing in hopes that one of the brighter bulbs (Haeger Champ aced this last night) in the room will know where I’m going but I kinda thought if I said that I was okay with Young moving to 3B that it was implied that I’m okay with a stopgap.

Does that answer your damned question?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You know

You’re not a good writer. I can see that you have a very high opinion of your talent, but it’s nothing special.

by brettgardner on Jan 14, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I just wanted to make it clear

Because I’m guessing that the most likely scenario is that JD does bring in a stopgap to compete with Andrus or even delay Andrus’s promotion. The key is that JD does not want Young as part of that competition: he wants Young at 3b.

But I had a good reason to make sure your position was clear on this point. If JD does bring in a stopgap, then you’ll ever have to change positions or agree that you’re on board with JD’s decision.

by cstorm15 on Jan 14, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As long as JD brings in somebody that is clearly

better than Michael Young and the overall defense improves, why would I complain?

The biggest problems this team currently faces are their starting pitchers, their defense and their dimwitted manager.

If the defense is truly fixed or much better in 2009, that’s a step in the right direction.

Bringing up Elvis Andrus a year (maybe two years) too early is another monster fuck-up by JD.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A couple of days ago you were saying this

Entire ordeal was a ploy to get rid of MY’s contract. Now you seem to understand that it was for the betterment of the teams overall defense. Good job Josey.

by hiafex on Jan 14, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Resist.

Resist.

My 2009 New Years Resolution: Quit feeding the trolls.

by ghtd36 on Jan 14, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I know

It’s the only thing I’m saying. Thanks for the reminder. Remember how I supported you not continuing the pointless argument? I just wanted to show that he’s partly able of advising his opinions.

by hiafex on Jan 14, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Understood.

Good to have you on board.

My 2009 New Years Resolution: Quit feeding the trolls.

by ghtd36 on Jan 14, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hiafex,

Not true.

I believe this is a ploy to get out from under Young’s contract. By making it public (opinions are mixed on who made it public) that Young wouldn’t be a team player and adhere to management’s request to move, it softens the blow if a fan favorite is traded.

I’d buy it if they signed Vizquel / Cabrera for a year and they weren’t in absolute desperation to clear some payroll to fix their pitching staff.

By saying “We want to get all our championship caliber players lined up and on the field together” I get a whiff of JD bullshit when it’s very clear that Andrus is not ready for the bigs.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought they would have

wanted him in AAA for most of 2009. This is and organizational decison which included Nolan Ryan. It may even have been pushed by Nolan. They are targeting 2010 to be a serious division contender. If Andrus shows in ST that he is overmatched then I could see them bringing someone in like Vizquel. I don’t think they would move MY back to SS.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 14, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

rooster, I think JD's line that

“we’re wanting to get our championship caliber players all lined up and on the field together” is the disconnect.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW

the term “championship caliber player” is not a term you want to use in reference to a minor leaguer. Its like when the Mick took over CF, they called him the next Joe D, it put so much pressure on the kid that he didnt know how to handle it, he struggled and they had to send him back down. He overcame it, but thats the Mick.

doing that to kids isnt fair to the kid.

I really think they should have handled it where they just waited for Elvis to beat out MY at short in ST. then one day, the line up card just had both in the lineup and MY at 3b. let the kid fly under the radar and let his performance pimp slap FFace and then make the move.

im all for JD, his vision is the right vision, and its finally gonna put the rangers on the right track. its why i have bought into his time here, Hicks and Nolan have bought into it, but JD handled it like a yankee(not NYY) does. Texans dont spend a long time talking about it, they decide it quietly and do it. went off track, but i support the call because its the right baseball decision, but there isnt a need to draw this all out into the public or give MY an opportunity to. Just do it one day…

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

besides MY knew that if Elvis blew the doors off in ST

he wasnt gonna be playing SS. He knew it, he just didnt need some “kid” (his view not mine) who never played a day above pony league lining him out. it was redundant. It wasnt a nec. conversation and all it could do was incite him. MY may be full of pride and ego, but its not like he’s an idiot. He knew who was traded for in the Tex Deal, just dont piss on his leg while you make the move from win now to build a WS caliber team for the future.

(thats as big a defense as youll see me throw towards MY)

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the only quibble i have with that

is that I don’t think you want to wait for MY to be beaten out at SS in ST before you move him to 3B. I think you want to get him as much reps as possible in ST at 3B so that he’s not “learning on the job” during the regular season. I know we all believe he can handle the positions, but it will still take some time for him to get comfortable there.

by Royal Swine on Jan 14, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

championship caliber

I think all they mean is when they expect to win, Andrus will be a part of that. I don’t think that puts any sort of extra pressure on him. The mere fact of him being on the opening day roster will be plenty of pressure.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 14, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It is amazing to me that it has been less than 60 hours since the Michael Young trade demand story broke.

And I’m already sooooooo tired of it.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 9:52 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yep

I’d rather talk about Michael Irvin talking his way out of a carjacking…what’s scary is that happened about 50 feet from the front gate of my apartment complex…

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Jan 14, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Love the headline
Irvin calmly chats with gunman about Cowboys (AP)

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that and the head shop

shooting make me a bit nervous about our neghborhood becoming more of a ’hood.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

ive never been so glad that i moved a little further north from there than i am now. the area started sliding some about 3-4yrs ago and now that little section has gotten much worse.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 14, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My place has went

drastically downhill in the almost 2 years I’ve been here. It used to be mostly working families and young professionals…now it’s, well…different.

But my lease is up soon, and I’m outta here!

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yup

I experienced that about 4yrs ago, moved into a complex over there and it was great. Quiet lots of young families, young professionals and a few elderly people…. then after a few years it turned into loud thumping rap music and people fighting in the parking lot at night.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 14, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Word.

My upstairs human is a stripper with substance problems who fights non-stop with her bf, and I am quite sure my nextdoor guy is dealing…or else he really has 15-20 friends who visit him every day…right.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

where the hell are you guys talking about?

i guess i dont watch the local news…

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

That’s two fairly violent crimes in the course of two weeks. Time to get strapped! :)

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Jan 14, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

shit boy,

time to get strapped was 9/12/01, nows just time to make sure you have all your ammo ready.

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if I agree with the money angle LeBreton took.

But that’s certainly a way to gain acceptance that MY is being acting like a petulant child. I’ve never gotten worked up about how much these guys make, and how they should act differently because of their paycheck. That doesn’t bother me.

I guess what I’m saying is, MY shouldn’t move because he makes tons of money — he should move because:

1. His bosses have asked/told him to
2. He’s supposedly a “team player”
3. Because it’s the right thing to do for both MY and the team.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 14, 2009 9:53 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

agree

I certainly don’t make a lot of money, yet I’d move desks if my boss told me to.

by JBImaknee on Jan 14, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Meh

I’m tired of this now. I think I’ll just wait to see what happens.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 9:53 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Interesting Admission
Surprise: In supporting this move, Daniels cites one of those lessons, his swap of Soriano to the Nationals for Brad Wilkerson, Terrmel Sledge and Armando Galarraga.

“We took a beating from the media for not moving Soriano to left field before we traded him, and you guys were dead right,” Daniels said. "Instead, we sold Soriano for 60 cents on the dollar, if that. But if we’d moved Soriano to the outfield, it would have been so Ian Kinsler could play second. Who knew what he could do then?

by cstorm15 on Jan 14, 2009 9:54 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Admission from JD

that the Soriano trade was failed even though he furiously defended the trade at the time when he was on Galloway’s show in June ’07.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

On the bright side...

JD admits his mistakes and learns from them. If it was a mistake to trade Sori, does it follow that it isn’t a mistake to NOT trade Young? And, at least on that point, JD is doing the right thing.

2009? Forget it. It's all about 2010. Go Rangers!

by rooster on Jan 14, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

I believe at a Newberg Night, JD was pretty open in admitting that neither of those trades worked out at all.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 14, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In June '07

when the team bolted the gate 23-42 and it looked as though this thing might lose 100 games, JD was quite sensitive and furiously defended the Soriano trade on Galloway’s show.

This was also before we knew how bad the Danks trade turned out to be.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"who gives a shit, its gone!"

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Glad someone at the ST is realistic

At least Gil has been paying attention to the product on the field, and what will be best for the team.

I at least have a little hope that the only paper that is going to cover the Rangers has 1 person that isn’t blindly following the company line of being Anti-Hicks, Washington, or JD.

by duyduck on Jan 14, 2009 9:55 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think MY should just go all

Marcus Schrenker on us, and fake his death and try to run away to play SS in a latin american league somewhere

Get off my lawn.

by DJCahill on Jan 14, 2009 9:56 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

That would be a long

motorcycle ride.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 14, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He shouldn't have to fake his death. He's worked too hard at faking being a real person to have to fake his death now. Some rookie should have to fake his death instead.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I don‘t know you who you are. I don‘t know what you want. If you‘re looking for me to be a man and move to third base for the good of the team, I can tell you, I don't have man parts. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills acquired over a very long career of secretly being a pretty huge douche. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you trade me now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don‘t, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will throw a gigantic hissy fit in the media.

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

WRECK

he’s heating up ..

Give me Sheets or give me Offseason Blues Part III.

by Chase Irwin on Jan 14, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In other news today,

the “Nazi kids” are now in state custody.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 10:01 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Fuck those parents

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 14, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"No... JD has been exposed as a kid who trades his remote-controlled helicopters for paper airplanes, then fails to consider the feelings of the paper airplane when he refolded it into a hat." -Telegraph.

by Kinslerhomer on Jan 14, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Man, i need to watch local trash news.

i dont have a clue about any of the weird trashy news

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't watch TV.

I get all my news from radio/net.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Amen, brotha.

Fuck the tube.

Give me Sheets or give me Offseason Blues Part III.

by Chase Irwin on Jan 14, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why is the S-T company line

anti Hicks, JD and Wash? Any particular reason? Maybe the writers are just asses?

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 10:05 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

To be clear...

…it is the columnist company line, not the beat writers. Galloway, Reeves, and JFE.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 14, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

JFE

that bitch knows jack and shit.

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not going to disagree on your feelings

about JFE. The reason she has a job with the ST (and gets to speak on ESPN Radio) is because she doesn’t have a dick.

Still, she did say that Ron Washington is considered to be a large joke by most within the Ranger organization last September. Regardless how you feel about her journalistic abilities, I have no reason to believe she wasn’t telling the truth when she said that.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LMAO

You trash JFE, but say she’s right when her opinion coincides with your’s.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 14, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just throwing it out there...

I see lots and lots of advertising between the Rangers & DMN but I notice very little between the Rangers & ST.

I always thought Tom Hicks got a pass because of this.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"I always thought Tom Hicks got a pass because of this."

What a shock, Josey with a conspiracy on why more people don’t trash Hicks.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 14, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I hate Michael Young.

What a douche bag.

I can’t wish enough bad things on him.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I don‘t know you who you are. I don‘t know what you want. If you‘re looking for me to be a man and move to third base for the good of the team, I can tell you, I don't have man parts. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills acquired over a very long career of secretly being a pretty huge douche. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you trade me now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don‘t, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will throw a gigantic hissy fit in the media.

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 10:08 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Don't mean to be a jerk

but this is getting kind of old. We get your point on EVERY MY thread.

by bioaggie on Jan 14, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right.

Plus that sig was too long.

Two birds, one stone.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Great recovery.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 14, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

dirkatron

You brand yourself really well. You’re like the Julia Allison of LSB.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 14, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks to the power of the series of tubes I now know who that is.

She seems to be pretty shitty.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know her work. She made the cover of Wired, talking about making herself into a persona.

There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 14, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hah, nice. Thanks for the new line for my sig.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 3:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m glad you’re amused, heh, otherwise I’d think I sounded like a jerk in this thread.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 14, 2009 4:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

deja vu to AROD

Ken Rosenthal:

He also signed long-term under the premise that the Rangers would increase their overall spending, something that has not occurred.

by SanDiegoKev on Jan 14, 2009 10:10 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...about that.

"I have kids, so when I get on the mound I see someone else trying to steal my job and make my life hell. So I try to do the same thing to them." -- Eric Gagne

by Agreen07 on Jan 14, 2009 11:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They tried

Young should have talked his friend Tex into signing that deal. That way our payroll could be around 85 million now.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 14, 2009 1:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LeBreton

With apologies to Adam, I think LeBreton’s column is the best thing anyone has written about this whole affair. Michael Young is seriously out of touch if he thinks that people are going to be sympathetic to his “plight” when the economy is shedding jobs like it is.

"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley

by trza on Jan 14, 2009 10:11 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

LeBreton

I think he just became my favorite local sports writer.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 14, 2009 10:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's not exactly saying much

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 14, 2009 1:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the biggest thing out of all of this is that everyone who is supporting Young stay at ss

is forgetting the obvious..

Texas was the worst in all of baseball defensively at 3B. The Dewan’s +/- numbers are by far the worse, and the difference is the largest gap between 30th and 29th in all of baseball.

Moving young helps the MINF defense 3 ways.

1. Replace the worse defensive position in all of baseball with a guy that because of his primary attributes, great arm and soft hands, should make hi at worse league average at 3B.

2. Replace one of the worst defender’s range wise at SS with an above average defender.

3. No more of Kinsler and the rest of the infield having to shade to protect a weak SS. Being in position leads to better overall defense.

And to make those upgrades what does it cost us offensively? It costs the team losing Metcalf’s sub par OPS for a all glove SS’s OPS>

by laxtonto on Jan 14, 2009 10:14 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Does anybody believe that

the Rangers don’t want to move Kinsler to 3B this year because long-term they are eventually going to kick his ass out to LF when Vallejo is ready?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kinsler

He didn’t have the arm for SS, so I’m not sure why moving him to third or left would be an option.

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Jan 14, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, i was wondering that too

his arm isnt up to 3b, every1 i thought knew that…

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nah

I don’t think Kinsler has the arm for #B and it removes his best defensive attribute his range and puts a premium on one of his worst his hands

Vallejo has the most value to me by showing he can play SS and being used a s trade chip

by laxtonto on Jan 14, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

All I’m trying to find out is what’s the guy’s name on #base.

No. What is on @base.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ace of Base?

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 10:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yep

As much as we agonize over Young’s bad SS defense, the real problem for the Rangers is the enitre left side. I’m truly convinced that moving Young to 3B and having a good defensive SS is the best way for this team to improve.

by Randy Richardson on Jan 14, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that better overall defense

will also lead to better pitching stats. The groundball that used to go up the middle with 2 outs and runners of 2nd and 3rd now becomes a G6. (Unless Andrus throws it away.)

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 14, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hightower

Thanks for the heads up.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 14, 2009 10:19 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

O that’s no problem, and definitely a misstep I’d make if I were running this thing.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 14, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Rosenthal has covered the angles.

I don’t wanna have to go into all the details of what I’m thinking here, but it is relevant to ask why management decided it HAD to go with Andrus. I’m glad he laid it out in a reasonable way rather than to just slam JD as incompetent. It is possible to question his strategy in this situation (and maybe his delivery of his request) and still think he has been a good a GM. It is a very, very unusual move to think that a 20-yo without experience above AA will be of more help to the Rangers in 2009 than a FA 3B or FA SS, and there is no guarantee that Andrus will have a quick ramp up to a championship level by 2010, even with Young’s help. It is very unusual, and it requires a great deal of experience to craft the transition wisely.

It is also relevant to point out that this is still Young’s best option, and he should come to his senses, even if he feels disrespected by not be “asked”. Young’s statement is begging for a followup interview request to learn how he might have reacted if he had been asked. I don’t think it’s out of bounds to ask him that question. They’ve asked JD some hard questions, and he’s addressed them.

Like I said Rosenthal covered the bases well. The Rangers would’ve been much better off if this would’ve been avoided, and there are questionable tactics on both sides.

So, the bottom line is I hope JD can make amends with Young. This is something between them. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Young not back down but to take the field as a SS and test Nolan’s assertion that an ultimatum will not be given to Young, but I hope it does not come to that.

2009? Forget it. It's all about 2010. Go Rangers!

by rooster on Jan 14, 2009 10:21 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

i cant see that happening

young may have support in the local media but i dont think that support is unconditional. ultimately management has made its decision and will enforce it if need be, so young will not only lose face if he tries to call their blufft, but he will still end up having to play third if he wants to get paid.

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jan 14, 2009 10:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I feel more optimistic about Young playing 3B after reading Jamey's compilation of quotes.

I haven’t read every single word of what has been reported on this. Both sides still want to be together, it appears. JD has done a good job of giving props to Young, and I’d like to see Young get to the point that he can say the local press has been unfair to JD. It’s still up to JD and Young to have that man-to-man and make it all good, and there is no reason for that not to happen, judging from Jamey’s compilation.

2009? Forget it. It's all about 2010. Go Rangers!

by rooster on Jan 14, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Also from Rosenthal
The Rangers would love to add a right-handed slugger to hit between Josh Hamilton and Chris Davis, but a trade for the White Sox’s Jermaine Dye is not happening and the team would rather stick with the left-handed Hank Blalock than take a flier on a free agent such as Frank Thomas or Nomar Garciaparra. Blalock, 28, is coming off a big September and should be motivated as he enters his free-agent year …

And this:

Both the Red Sox and Diamondbacks insist that they are not close on a deal that would send D-Backs catcher Miguel Montero to Boston. The D-Backs, lacking an internal replacement, will need to find another catcher if they trade Montero. However, Montero’s value only would drop if he spent another season as Chris Snyder’s backup. He could be an above-average offensive catcher if he plays regularly …

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 14, 2009 10:22 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

great article by Gil

and i appreciated what Rosenthal had to say, as it changes my opinion on the whole matter. I have harped on the importance of communication and the managing of expectations, and Young’s response led me to believe that somehow he wasn’t mentally prepared to eventually make this move. But Roselthal’s comment:

…club officials never hid from Young that they eventually expected him to change positions.

makes it obvious that this is just sour grapes from Young. He’ll get over it, move to 3B, and this will just be another brief, silly chapter in Rangers history.

But I still have two qualms about this whole thing, the first being that the Rangers will potentially look VERY foolish if Andrus is not ready this spring and they don’t seem to have a feasible back up plan (they will undoubtedly ignore my pleas to sign Vizquel to a one year deal), and the second being that I actually agree with Josey in that if we are truly dedicated to letting young players take their lumps in ’09 to compete in 2010, then why not trade Byrd or Murphy and let Borbon come up and man CF from day one.

by clark on Jan 14, 2009 10:30 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

JBourbon

will be brought up when/if NCruz falters. Hamilton will move to RF.

by JTodd on Jan 14, 2009 10:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

rather than wish ill upon Cruz

why not just cash out on Byrd now (his RH bat, ability to play CF, affordability, and healthy OPS should make him a very valuable commodity) and start the season with Hamilton in LF (easiest on his body), Borbon in CF and Cruz in RF with Murphy spelling each of them sporadically. That would be a huge defensive upgrade and would allow the Rangers to see a full season of Borbon and Cruz before 2010.

by clark on Jan 14, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Borbon

Well, he’ll be in camp, since he’s on the 40-man already, so I’d imagine the team will get a good look at him this spring.

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Jan 14, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

this

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So we want to control Borbon for another year

but we don’t care about Elvis’ clock?

WHAT. THE FUCK. DIRK. ATRON.

Give me Sheets or give me Offseason Blues Part III.

by Chase Irwin on Jan 14, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Huh? I've said multiple times we need to keep Elvis down for at least a few months to keep his clock from starting.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith

by thedirkatron on Jan 15, 2009 1:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Awwww man .....

I guess I should have dropped a “/Josey” at the end of that post. Too bad.

Jan 14, 2009 2:30 PM EST
If we’re really trying (as JD says) to "get all our championship caliber players lined up and on the field together" how come we’re not hearing anything about Jules Borbon?

Jules? Hi, how are you. Meet Vomit.

Give me Sheets or give me Offseason Blues Part III.

by Chase Irwin on Jan 15, 2009 3:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, okay.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith

by thedirkatron on Jan 15, 2009 6:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

considering the Elvis statement by JD

i cant agrue with that thinking

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that neither Andrus nor Borbon make the opening day roster

but are up after both have passed the point that they would no longer be super 2 arbitration players. I would not be suprised to see a Omar Vizquel picked up to play SS.

It gives both a little bit more time to get at bats at AAA and saves the team an entire year of arbitration.

by laxtonto on Jan 14, 2009 10:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

I’ve been in the camp that wanted a stop-gap to at least start the season — but JD’s recent comments are pretty tough to back down from. It really sounds as if Andurs will be the starter on Opening Day.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 14, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what about
“He has to win the job,” general manager Jon Daniels said. “It won’t be given to him.”

comment from Daniels.

More than anything this is just a move to improve the defense at both SS and 3B. Addition by subtraction.

by laxtonto on Jan 14, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah there is that

and there was that quote from the DMN Blog (can’t link because my work computer blocks it) that said Andrus would be on the team opening day.

Who knows?

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 14, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I for one don't want Andrus there opening day

he needs more time, at least a couple of months in AAA, but more importantly, doesn’t this mount even more pressure on his 20 yr old shoulders than is required. Not just jumping to the pros, but displacing and displeasing the ‘so-called’ leader of this team.

That is alot of pressure for a young guy to handle no matter how talented he may be

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it would be tough for any 20 year old

to survive in The Show even with tons of vets supporting him.

We heard yesterday how unpopular JD is with Ranger players and now he is displacing the acknowledged leader of the team for a 20 year old in AA who made 32 errors and has an OPS below .720.

I get a feeling that if Andrus is the SS on Opening Day that he’s going to be on an island and that most of the vets will be very resentful because he was given a postion he wasn’t ready for by a person (JD) they don’t respect.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

JD
We heard yesterday how unpopular JD is with Ranger players

Where was this reported? I missed that.

"I have kids, so when I get on the mound I see someone else trying to steal my job and make my life hell. So I try to do the same thing to them." -- Eric Gagne

by Agreen07 on Jan 14, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Josey's getting his news from Kevin Mench now

No shit.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you believe Mench was lying?

Yeah, he’s a disgruntled former employee but do you truly feel the current Rangers in The Show respect JD?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What evidence do you have

of JD not being respected. I didn’t hear that. JD is respected around the league, and these players if they don’t respect him will learn to respect him because they will no longer be able to get whatever they want by whining selfishly.

Is that what upsets you?

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was just listening to what Mench said

about JD yesterday.

I don’t know why he would lie.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Did you not listen to then entire Mench segment?

Mench is just pissed about being traded and is letting his strong friendship with Young cloud his judgment. He had bad things to say about the managemnt the last time he was let go as well.

Mench left us with these great lines..

“Texas is trying to save face by putting Andrus on the field because he was part of the Teixeira trade.”

“We were on the verge of contending until Daniels traded everyone away.”

“Why make Micheal move. They should have moved Andrus to 3B when he was acquired.”

So if Mench is right about the players not trusting JD i guess he is right about these as well?

by laxtonto on Jan 14, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Resist.

Resist.

My 2009 New Years Resolution: Quit feeding the trolls.

by ghtd36 on Jan 14, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mench is not the most articulate

person in the world. He’s just a ballplayer from sloburbia Philadelphia and not quite the smooth erudite speaker that a Cornell grad like JD is.

There was also a cluster-fuck of opposing voices all trying to make their points at the same time.

The Ranger Marketing Department (B&S) had their povs, Cowlishaw had his pov and Mench had his disgruntled employee pov.

There was a lot of debris to sift thru but undeniably, Mench said the players do not like or respect JD.

Aren’t you in violation of your little petition?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Of Course Mench hates

JD .
JD banished him to AAA and now Mench is stuck in Japan.

by Dor12 on Jan 14, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Those are idiot things to say

LMFAO

They are trying to save face because of the tex trade. Atlanta is the one that needs to save face. We will have 3 impact players this year from that trade. An ace, a possible superstar SS, a great Catcher, and a backend starter. And a possible reliever in the minors that may make it.

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why does everyone keep calling it the Tex trade?!?!

My friends and I refer to it as the legendary Mahay trade.

by Michael Cave on Jan 14, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We could've had Brett Devall.

Sigh…

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

We all know that Teix was only worth Beau Jones.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 14, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Because Josey told everyone at Newberg's before

that Mahay wasn’t worth squat and wouldn’t bring back anything good in a trade.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 14, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well they will respect him after this MY situation

MY said no I want to play SS and JD said F U MY, you will play 3B and you will like it.

"I have kids, so when I get on the mound I see someone else trying to steal my job and make my life hell. So I try to do the same thing to them." -- Eric Gagne

by Agreen07 on Jan 14, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Eddie George had similar things to say about Bill Parcells

It’s called bitterness.

I learned a lot from Don Nelson when he was coach and GM of the Mavericks. He told me something early on, that opened my eyes. I forget the exact conversation, but we were talking about players, and I asked him why he didnt talk to a specific player about something that was going on. What he said was that "THe worse evaluator of talent is a player trying to evaluate himself." -Mark Cuban

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The question is

does it matter if the players respect the GM? He puts the team together. He doesn’t run the day-to-day gameday operations. Why should they have to like him? Will it change how many games they win this year? Does your work performance change because you don’t like your boss’ boss? If it does, that’s your problem.
JD’s decision effects him now. Once the game starts, he still has to play, regardless of the GM. Will he boot routine grounders to show his spite?
As for respect being necessary to get free agents…the Rangers aren’t signing free agents. If the team wins, guys will want to come here. If not, no one will come anyway, no matter how much JD is respected.

by bigskinny on Jan 14, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Listen

I saw that movie The Natural. They hated the front office yet that team was awesome after they got over losing all the time. We don’t need anyone to like the front office; we just need someone to hit home runs into the lighting and scoreboards and stuff.

by FuturePants on Jan 14, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There are probably very few major league teams

that “like” their front office.

Respect is an entirely different matter.

I surmise a big part of the problem is that MYoung doesn’t respect JD or his judgment.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh

My post was a joke. I don’t actually think that having Roy Hobbes on our team will win a pennant or something. I also don’t think Josh Hamilton can literally hit the cover off the ball. Return to your Genesis.

by FuturePants on Jan 14, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

If anyone’s an expert on being on an island and universally disliked, its you.

As annoying as you are if you would refer to " the show" only a hundred times a day instead of eleventy billion, your AF ( annoyance factor ) would be cut in half

by BEW on Jan 14, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How do you know that is not on the table?

I think JD would be compromising his position to call up Borbon now. I think it is very possible a Byrd/Murphy deal has been proposed…

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Does anyone really think.....

that JD would ask MY to move for Andrus this year unless….

a) The baseball people agreed Andrus will make the team better by the end of 09
b) The organization thinks Andrus has the kind of maturity and makeup to meet the challenge of the show
c) Nolan signed off on the move. Hell, it might have been Nolan that said “if we think he’s that good, let’s get him up here!”

by stltxfan on Jan 14, 2009 10:57 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

NR might

vey well be the architect of this whole plan.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 14, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he may be that good

and is ranked that high in our system, but this puts much more pressure on Andrus than I like. There is enough pressure trying to stick in the majors when you’re first called up, let alone the pressure you have when alot of people will be against you because they favor MY

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Andrus

From what I’ve read- mostly Jamey’s reports- Andrus’ maturity and makeup are supposed to be off the charts.

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Jan 14, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

To clarify

That’s off the charts in a positive way- he’s reportedly very mature.

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Jan 14, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's true, he is very mature for his age.

I heard he was having sex when he was 9.

"I have kids, so when I get on the mound I see someone else trying to steal my job and make my life hell. So I try to do the same thing to them." -- Eric Gagne

by Agreen07 on Jan 14, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

That's just silly. He's not Miles.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Newberg has glowing reports on a guy's character???

That’s gotta be a first.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

getting to know these guys

on a personal level has to make it hard to not come off like that. Mike Hindman and Jason Parks can both border on hyperbole as well. It doesn’t take away from the quality of their reporting, though.

by clark on Jan 14, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yuppers. Not letting personal feelings get in the way is basically unpossible.

Some guys take it a little too far with their favorites, though.

It’s why I do the slow jerk whenever I hear Newberg talk about certain guys.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't border on hyperbole.....

I’m usually way over the border with it. It’s my favorite medium.

by jparks77 on Jan 14, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hyperbole is the best thing ever!

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Game,

Set,

Match.

lol

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

You haven’t been talking about Main the same way I’ve heard you talk about Harrison. You got to step up your game.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 15, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think it's complicated

Andrus is being brought up for his rangey D. He isn’t going to lose that just because he’s playing at the Majors instead of AA.

His bat? Compare him to the people suggested as stopgap SSs. Here’s Omar Vizquel’s 2007 and 2008 production (.242/.305/.316 and .222/.283/.267) and Orlando Cabrera’s 2008 production (.281./.334/.371). I’m sure Elvis can match Omar, might produce as well as Cabrera, he’s a lot cheaper, younger, and his experience in 2009 could prove really valuable down the line.

The only probem will be the fans and S-T will always point out the errors without recognizing the plays he makes that MY couldn’t, which sucks. And that complaining will be magnified now because of MY’s shitfit.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Those fans can gripe all they want

but when Andrus’ rangey D at SS produces more WINS than when MY was the SS they will all have to STFU. It’s all about the wins baby.

by bioaggie on Jan 14, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I miss Evan Grant.

I would enjoy reading his take on this bru-ha-ha.

"Never go with a hippie to a second location."

by jcAustin on Jan 14, 2009 10:58 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

He would be telling us

how much Michael was wronged, and generally be trying to protect Michael from the Bad Men.

Get off my lawn.

by DJCahill on Jan 14, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure he'd

be all pro-MY on this one.

"Never go with a hippie to a second location."

by jcAustin on Jan 14, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.

I like Michael Young, and I’m finding it very difficult to find anything to be pro-MY about.

My 2009 New Years Resolution: Quit feeding the trolls.

by ghtd36 on Jan 14, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He pretty much scoffed at the notion

of MY moving to 3B on one of MJH’s roundtables I thought.

Get off my lawn.

by DJCahill on Jan 14, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Doubt it

He was usually pretty even-keel and thoughtful. I don’t think he’d have a knee-jerk reaction one way or the other. I imagine he’d have an interesting take. Unfortunately, we’ll never know.

"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley

by trza on Jan 14, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yup.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure anything else

needs to be added to this. I think everything has been said

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually....

Evan was on 1080’s sports central last night. I don’t remember exactly what he said, but my impression of his comments was that this move was inevitable…

by stltxfan on Jan 14, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Rosenthal
But Young, an eight-year veteran, bristles at the notion of losing his job to Elvis Andrus, who has yet to play above Class AA. As one general manager said, what if Andrus hits .150 in April and the Rangers send him to Class AAA? Would Young move back to short, and then back to third once Andrus returned?

I also wonder what would happen if this transpires.

"I have kids, so when I get on the mound I see someone else trying to steal my job and make my life hell. So I try to do the same thing to them." -- Eric Gagne

by Agreen07 on Jan 14, 2009 11:01 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Marcus Lemon.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Vallejo over Lemon

possibly Duran, depending on if he can make any more adjustments this year

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And if Andrus struggles this year in MLB/AAA

you just keep MY at 3B and Duran plays SS all year? I want MY at 3B, I’m just saying if Andrus struggles, this won’t look good for JD in the people’s court.

"I have kids, so when I get on the mound I see someone else trying to steal my job and make my life hell. So I try to do the same thing to them." -- Eric Gagne

by Agreen07 on Jan 14, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

after all this, the organization really needs Andrus to be successful, and pretty early on

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Still a great listen

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

NothinG didn't quite get it.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tattoo You

was probably their best last effort.

Loved “Worried About You” (that’s Billy Preston on the organ) and “Waiting On A Friend” (not sure if the great Mick Taylor helped write the song or if that’s him on guitar).

Good times.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Im more of an old school Brian Jones era Stones guy

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 2:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

jslick, To me it's degrees of greatness

because the Stones were in their prime in varying degrees from ‘65-’81 and Jones was definitely a part of it.

I thought the Stones were at their very best from ‘68-’76 (during Taylor’s time with the band).

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 2:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

:P

I hate you all, and shall spew my hate onto Lemon forever

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it would be a slippery slope

that the S-T columnists would jump on. I am going to be the biggest supporter of Andrus because MY is doing nothing to help make his job easier. I hope he changes his tune, but I don’t think MY is going to mentor the kid to his left when he seems to be this prideful and selfish. That is what I worry about

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

but I don’t think MY is going to mentor the kid to his left when he seems to be this prideful and selfish. That is what I worry about

my only concern and why id like to sign a vet who can be a good mentor.

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh Dear... here's Norm:
isn’t it true that Michael Young’s greatest value to a major league team is a second base?

no, norm. that’s not true.


he’s a TERRIFIC defensive player.

he is?

I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.

by Haeger Champ on Jan 14, 2009 11:07 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

No doubt.

Isn’t it fun to be able to laugh…No, I want to slap him.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess

the wedgie is not a good vantage point to watch the game.

by scoop16 on Jan 14, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And now Friedo

is sounding stupid…

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Friedo

always sounds stupid

Life is pain - we've got to scrape the joy from it every chance we get.

by jshcmp on Jan 14, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Stopgap SS

I’ve kept quiet the past few days about all this nonsense, but I guess it’s time to get it out of my system. Plenty of you that summed up my feelings so I’m not going to waste my time rambling about the situation. However, I am interested in the effect it’s going to have on the roster.

I don’t expect Young to be traded and I think he will eventually suck it up and move to 3B. However, I do not think Elvis is ready to play Opening Day. I’d like to see him put in some time at OKC, if for no other reason than delay his Free Agent clock. Even if the organization believes he is I’d like us to sign a 1 year stop gap to serve as a safety net. Who are our options? Adam has mentioned J.J. Hardy but Rosenthal doesn’t think he’ll be traded. Orlando Cabrera? I’m drawing a blank on other SS FA’s.

It would make me sick at my stomach if we started Elvis’ clock at the beginning of the year, only for him to put out some of the pathetic numbers being projected (Josey). If he’s ready to be called up around June, CD style, I’d be down for that.

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Jan 14, 2009 11:11 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you

I think we need a stopgap of either Orlando Cabrera or even an Omar Vizquel. Vizquel would intrigue me because he could be a true mentor for Andrus since both are Venezuelan and Andrus most likely would look up to him. It would also acclimate us to a defensive guy that isn’t going to produce offensive numbers that are off the charts. When Andrus would get called up though, people would see his speed and skills that causes most scouts to really think he is special.

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Vizguel is better

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Option than Cabrera

You sign Cabrera, and he is your shortstop for 2009, all of it.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Because he has an agent...

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 1:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

Unless they paid him the most money and he was your shortstop for all of 2009.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I just found your post confusing.

Either they would be able to sign him or they wouldn’t. Any stopgap obviously knows he could very well be benched in favor of Andrus, so saying they wouldn’t be able to do that once he signed didn’t make much sense to me is all.

by FuturePants on Jan 14, 2009 4:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Anyhow, I think we can both agree,

Cabrera’s not a good fit.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 5:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Deadline deal?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kenny Lofton?

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And then sign Mussina.

And have a “Your Mama Don’t Dance” jam session in the infield!

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Heh

that was terrible.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 14, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I try, good sir.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

who knew there is a g in Vizquel?

Call 1-800-DOCTORB. The B is for bargain!

by Panorama on Jan 14, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yea, I know

Call 1-800-DOCTORB. The B is for bargain!

by Panorama on Jan 14, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1 on Vizquel

LOL Sorry the Sooners will score more that 14. - boomer1

by venturafearsnolan on Jan 14, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As I mentioned above

For the stopgap SSs listed, is there really a benefit to them over Elvis? Defensively Elvis might have some hickups but if what they his true, his range should be better than the options. Even if Elvis sucks on offense he should still provide better production than Vizquel and if Elvis is decent he may be as good as Cabrera. Add to that Elvis’s price tag and the experience he’ll get and I don’t see the benefit of a stopgap SS versus developing our own 20 y/o kid.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the main benefit

is not rushing him and having him perform badly and thus damage his confidence. Not saying that would happen. But another half year of seasoning at AAA would probably due him good. Also, I’m not a huge fan of starting him right away with this whole MY fiasco, as he will driectly linked to it, and I dont want him coming up here with the added pressure of feeling like he has to replace MY.

by Royal Swine on Jan 14, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

All valid concerns

I agree that 1/2 year at AAA wouldn’t hurt. However, everything else is a little speculative – confidence, pressure, things like that. Removing those issues from the equation, I think one could be sure that Elvis will be more valuable than Omar next year.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i agree

But is the lesser production of half season from Omar in a year where you dont really expect to compete worth those speculative risks?

by Royal Swine on Jan 14, 2009 3:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There's a speculative advantage

namely, the experience Andrus gets from a whole year in the majors thereby making him that must more valuable down the road.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

What a satisfying debate. Two people discuss their opposing viewpoints, recognize each other’s point without necessarily capitulating, and move on.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 6:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh JC & The band, Norm!

You fucking moron. “This is totally money motivated”. Bullshit! It’s about putting the best talent on the field, and getting a defensive butcher to a less defensively demanding position.

CD at third going forward? Gimme a fucking break.

Ike in LF…what a stupid fucking waste of assets.

Moving MY to 3rd doesn’t save a GD dime, you dumb fucker!

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 11:26 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

It's amazing to me

that the radio and newspaper folks are criticizing making what they see as a bad move by suggesting things far worse.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 14, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, I just needed to vent.

I’ve been staying out of these 500+ threads about this situation, for the most part. But Norm really set me off.

And yes, making other moves to compound the problem seems quite silly.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

word

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a P1

And normally cringe during most baseball discussions. I was actually pleasantly surprised on most of their takes, in particular Mike, Corby and Dan. The callers on the other hand….

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Jan 14, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What was The Hard Line's response to this?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nothing too drastic

They pretty much said they could see both sides of the issue. Mike stuck with his argument that the team needs to dump guys like Young and Blalock to get rid of the culture of losing. He said if he wanted to be traded, then trade him. Corby stuck up for the team when callers started their cries of “If MYoung is gone I’m done with this team.”

Nothing too Pro-Rangers, just not what I was expecting.

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Jan 14, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was going to answer this...

until I saw it was Josey inquiring and realized it would just result in a never-ending thread of Andrus, Wash, JD, Buster Olney, Gil Lebreton, the Hardline, the Ticket, Jesus and God all suck……

by stltxfan on Jan 14, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mike stuck with his argument that the team needs to dump guys like Young and Blalock to get rid of the culture of losing.

i dont think i disagree with that in theory

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He believes its "money motivated"

Because he believes Michael Young is an awesome defensive SS.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Speculating that this is money motivated

makes more sense than bringing up Andrus a year (maybe two years) early.

This is especially true when we hear from other sources that the Rangers have been trying to deal Young since December (after he was told he was being moved to 3B), that the Rangers have no money to spend and are in desperation to fix that hideous pitching staff that JD built.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i am getting really tired of all this kinsler to lf crap. his bat is very valuable at 2nd, much more valuable than young at 2b,ss,or 3b

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 14, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I think the actual convo within the organization last all of 2 seconds.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe less.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you don't touch kinsler

later in the year we’ll see what happens with Borbon, Feliz, and Holland. Also, the possibility of Kiker and Diamond being called up. That excites me.

Plus Main and Perez moving through the system. There are alot of things to look forward to this year

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt Beane

would have signed him to that contract. Anyway, I still feel like they are rushing this. They could be laying the groundwork for this move all year, to be in effect for 2010. Andrus has a solid year in AAA, September in Arlington, and proves he’s ready. Instead they spring it on everyone and predictably egos are bruised.

Mass X Acceleration = Force

by SteveP on Jan 14, 2009 11:39 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

This wasn't sprung on anyone

Young had absolutely no reason to be surprised last month when JD officially told Young that he was moving to 3b. That point has been pretty well established by now.

by cstorm15 on Jan 14, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Beane

Isn’t immune from bad signings/extensions – they still owe Chavez $26 million, Kotsay, Crosby, etc. He’s had to eat money on trades many times. He’s very good, but has some mystique of perfection surrounding him that just isn’t so.

by Randy Richardson on Jan 14, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's been able to trade star players and still compete

because of his ability and the people he hire’s to cultivate a farm system with talented players

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But how do you bring Elvis up in September if FFace is the SS?

That’s why they wanted to do it now, so that the Face didn’t have to move mid-season.

I still hope we’ll see a few months of stopgap at SS while Andrus marinates in OKC, but I feel like we’ve painted ourselves into a corner with all this hyping of Andrus, making it pretty much unpossible to not break camp with him as our SS now. That’s the only error I see our brass has made in this whole situation.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think September is much of a problem, since he could just play a handful of games.

But, earlier in the year would definitely be a problem. They clearly hope Andrus has grown up fast enough to the point that he isn’t making rookie mistakes during the precious 2010 season.

2009? Forget it. It's all about 2010. Go Rangers!

by rooster on Jan 14, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What does a handful of games...

in September tell you about a player?

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Jan 14, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it's more for the player

expose him to the bright lights and glitter

Mass X Acceleration = Force

by SteveP on Jan 14, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well since we're 'spozda start our run in '10, don't we want the guys we feel are gonna be a huge part of that to go into that season as prepared as possible to succeed starting that year?

Without doing anything to damage their long term developement, and without doing something dumb to jeopardize our team control years, of course.

To me that includes Andrus, Borbon, Hurley, Neftali, Holland, and getting FFace as much 3b time this year as possible, since there’s gonna be a learning curve and having two full off seasons of work there plus a full season of games under his belt is optimal, imo.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

agree

Seems like they’re unnecessarily touting Andrus and creating artificial expectations.

by Randy Richardson on Jan 14, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

I just hope Elvis doesn’t ‘press’ this year trying to live up to expectations (including possibly his own) that he has to replace MY.

by Royal Swine on Jan 14, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Does anyone else feel like we need to sign Sheets now?

as a PR tool about improving and putting a competitive team on the field. Even people that don’t know Sheets, it would be something else to talk about than the MY situation.

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 11:50 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Odd premonition I just had also.

I really see something (trade/signing) coming very soon.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was a little taken aback yesterday

when ab03 somehow thought I was not a follower of Bill James.

In fact, I was indignant and close to apoplectic.

The importance of your starting pitcher getting a 50+ Game Scores, Win Shares, Pythagorean Theorem, how important a 1-1 pitch is to an at bat….my gosh, there is nobody in here or over at NMLR who is more of a Bill James proponent than myself.

If you’ve signed your little petition (which is being submitted to BAD Radio’s Gay/Not Gay) and you’re bored with all the Michael Young talk here is a good link on Bill James -

http://www.blissfulknowledge.com/archives/000500.html

And another cool take on that particular article from the great Baseball Crank.

http://baseballcrank.com/archives2/2003/02/baseballwarpoli.php

It makes for a nice read in mid-January.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's ironic...

…that with regard to players you are a Bill James freak, yet with front office, all you care about is their past jobs.

JD = Dunkin’ Donuts, so he sux.
Nolan = Beat Ventura’s ass, so he rulez.

by FuturePants on Jan 14, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon, man.

Get on board for the big win.

My 2009 New Years Resolution: Quit feeding the trolls.

by ghtd36 on Jan 14, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Pants,

Let’s talk about JD and how he fails one Bill James test.

Why would JD sit there like a potted plant when Ron Washington continued to play Sammy Sosa (and hit him clean-up or 5th) against RH pitching in 2007 when his OPS v those pitchers was below .700?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They dont want sheets

they want oliver perez

that keeps popping up in my mind

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

Please.

NOOOOOO!!!!

That guy is the horrible.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

by thedirkatron on Jan 14, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A quote for rooster
“We asked Mike to make a move that was best for the organization,” Washington said. “The reaction Michael Young had is expected. Here’s an All-Star; a guy that’s the face of the Texas Rangers; a guy that his teammates love and all the community loves for the good things he does in the community. You can’t just expect a guy to be happy about this.”

I think it’s pretty clear that the team is trying to be sympathetic, but they’re not going to change their mind on this.

by cstorm15 on Jan 14, 2009 1:05 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Wash

Where do you think Wash stands in this mess? Is he at the crux of the decision or is he going along for the ride? It sounds like he’s not nearly as hard-stanced as JD is about all of this. I do understand the manager has to play both angles, but I wonder how much of this was his decision.

Maude Lebowski: Lord. You can imagine where it goes from here.
The Dude: He fixes the cable?

by Heebs on Jan 14, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

MY is an ALL Gold Glove SS

So why all this BS about him moving to 3rd, he should stay where he is, better that he is happy in a job he likes, from what i can see this Elvis guy is 2 to 3 years away from being able to hit ML pitching (and likely never will be a good ML hitter) so why the rush, and why all this crap before the season starts, MY may not be the best SS (though try to name one who hits better and also has the Gold Glove) i don’t see the logic in all of this.

by TRFAN on Jan 14, 2009 1:19 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

sarcasm?

You win with pitching and defense. Better defense improves the pitching. I know this is a foreign concept to Ranger fans.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 14, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Because defense is important

and defense also helps your pitching staff. Our pitching staff could use all the help they can get

by BEW on Jan 14, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

For all of us that would like Vizquel to be a stopgap at SS...

he looks to be signing with the Padres.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 14, 2009 1:24 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Was anyone

actually talking about Omar at SS? That guy sucks now.

Maude Lebowski: Lord. You can imagine where it goes from here.
The Dude: He fixes the cable?

by Heebs on Jan 14, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

Were looking for a guy who’s gonna be replaced June 1st.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OPS+ 45

Should a guy with an OPS of 45 last year who’s older than dirt get until June 1st? That sounds crazy to me. He slugged .267! I’d rather let MY play SS and 3B by himself.

Maude Lebowski: Lord. You can imagine where it goes from here.
The Dude: He fixes the cable?

by Heebs on Jan 14, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yup

I’m not sure if he had injury issues last year, but Elvis, even if he sucks, should have better production.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Andrus

I do worry about rushing Andrus. Regardless, I would hope there are better options than Vizquel. The guy just can’t play much anymore. I can’t imagine his defense is particularly stellar at this point either. Where’s Rey Ordonez?

Maude Lebowski: Lord. You can imagine where it goes from here.
The Dude: He fixes the cable?

by Heebs on Jan 14, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Richard Durrett on with Ben & Skin at 3:10.

"No... JD has been exposed as a kid who trades his remote-controlled helicopters for paper airplanes, then fails to consider the feelings of the paper airplane when he refolded it into a hat." -Telegraph.

by Kinslerhomer on Jan 14, 2009 2:01 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

they really talked rangers with hindman the other day

they let the intelligent sports fan have a place to listen, at least in that situation, but the callers are dumber than dirt

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

B&S seem to be throwing in lots of

Ranger programming during my favorite segment on The Ticket (Why Today Does Not Suck).

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm enjoying B&S

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

From sonsofsamhorn.net
Gammons was on ESPN radio in NYC, and ended up talking about Boston’s pursuit of a catcher for a little bit (mostly leading in from the idea that the market is terrible and that Boras has really misread it). Here are the pertinent points:

1. He thinks Tek will get about $1-2.M.
2. It will probably be from the Sox as he doesn’t see Bard catching 120 games.
3. He thinks Boston is more likely to trade with AZ.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=38947&st=100

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 14, 2009 7:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Gammons did actually say “that the Sox would prefer to trade with AZ” (or something close to that), but he did not say clarify it very much.

My own interpretation is that they prefer the cost of Montero as opposed to the player himself; but that’s enough to move them in a particular direction.

"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.

by OCD SS on Jan 14, 2009 8:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it is really funny that Tek

may only get 1-2 million after rejecting arb. That was the biggest bonehead move I’ve ever seen.

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Boras

He’s screwed a few of his clients this season.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 11:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

.

hi

hello

You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader

by iorange555 on Jan 15, 2009 5:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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