This Michael Young "it's all about the money" meme
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 14, 2009 2:17 PM CST
75 comments
Although I didn't hear it, from the comments today, it sounds like Norm Hitzges is pushing the meme that moving Michael Young to third base is not about improving the defense, getting Elvis Andrus up here, filling the organization hole at third, making the team better, or any of that.
Rather, it is part of an insidious plot by the Rangers. They want to get rid of Young and his contract, but they can't do it unless he waives his no-trade clause. So they go to him with a proposal that they know he won't want to do, so that he'll cause a ruckus and demand a trade, and thus they can get rid of him that way.
And it isn't just Hitzges...others, it seems, are pushing this line of thought.
Personally, this reminds me of the 9/11 conspiracy theories. I don't believe in the 9/11 conspiracy theories because, among other things, I have a hard time believing the government is competent enough to pull something that intricate and complicated off successfully, and without anyone finding out.
Similarly, I have a hard time believing that the Ranger organization is so masterful in their puppeteering that they can ensure that Michael Young would be so alienated and offended by their request that he switch positions that he would throw a fit and demand to be traded. The idea that this whole thing is a nefarious plot designed to allow them to escape from his contract, a trick where Daniels, Hicks and Ryan (don't forget -- Nolan Ryan is supposedly in charge of everything, remember) are asking Michael Young to throw the team in the brier patch by waiving his no trade clause and demanding to be dealt.
And this was supposedly done in the very midst of one of the worst free agent markets (in terms of players getting paid) out there, with a guy coming off a bad season and with a contract widely deemed to be untradeable.
Now, to be clear, I think the Rangers would be open to trading Young, if they could get his contracts off the books and get something nice back in return. I'm not suggesting Tom Hicks doesn't want to save money, isn't interest in shaving payroll.
But the idea that wanting to move Young to third base -- something that a lot of us have been urging needs to be done for some time, something that others around the league think is a logical and expected move -- is motivated by a desire to anger Young so he'd waive his no-trade clause, when there's clearly no market for him?
Come on. Even if you think Daniels and Hicks are that incompetent, surely Nolan Ryan isn't that bumbling and clownish, is he?
We'll know one way or the other shortly, of course. If Young is still here come spring training, that would seem to suggest that this isn't all about getting out from under a bad contract.
But even if that's what this was all about...wouldn't it have made more sense to do things the way the Padres did with Jake Peavy, and approach Young and basically say, we're in rebuilding mode, you are making too much money, we aren't going to spend to get players around you, so why don't you waive your no-trade and let us send you to a contender?
This whole line of thought is just absurd.
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I can see why you think this needs to be written
Since Norm is somewhat of an important dallas sports media figure.
But are you next going to write a post on why its absurd for people to use errors to judge fielding ability?
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
by ab03 on Jan 14, 2009 2:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So, AJM's now baiting the trolls
Didn’t we just talk about this?
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
again, well put
agree.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
The Wrestler
by Longhorn on Jan 14, 2009 2:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well put, but
it won’t stem the tide of discontent.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jan 14, 2009 2:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Don't be stupid.
This is clearly a Boy Blunder ploy (done without the approval of N.O.L.A.N., but with, of course, the approval of The Most Incompetent Owner in Sports) to get the leader of the team to lessen the burden caused by such a colossally bad contract (also Boy Blunder’s handiwork), and rush up some magic beans who aren’t ready for THE SHOW, and who will have an OPS under .600 to help the team reach their 72-win talent plateau.
In other words, lots of people make stupid arguments. It doesn’t mean anyone takes them seriously.
by brettgardner on Jan 14, 2009 2:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think your comment flew over the heads of most.
I have nothing to say
by rldwb on Jan 14, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, I got it.
Pretty savvy.
My 2009 New Years Resolution: Quit feeding the trolls.
by ghtd36 on Jan 14, 2009 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's obvious
JD brainwashed Nolan into thinking Young would be better off at 3rd. He’s a sneaky one, that guy…..
by jcir454 on Jan 14, 2009 2:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
JoseyWales
has been saying this the entire time…
"I have kids, so when I get on the mound I see someone else trying to steal my job and make my life hell. So I try to do the same thing to them." -- Eric Gagne
by Agreen07 on Jan 14, 2009 2:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
here
http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/1/14/720453/no-reply-it-s-time#11411904
"I have kids, so when I get on the mound I see someone else trying to steal my job and make my life hell. So I try to do the same thing to them." -- Eric Gagne
by Agreen07 on Jan 14, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you even read what AJM said?
He’s saying he DOESN’T agree with that.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jan 14, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you might have missed the point (or I'm way off base)
Agreen07 is implying that this post is a giant response to trolls.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Norm is a troll now?
I realize why AJM made this post — it’s been discussed — but not only by trolls.
Maybe I misread Agreen…I dunno whatever…carry on.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jan 14, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm simply stating
that people are giving JoseyWales a lot of crap. And one, not all, is because he holds an opinion which apparently is shared by Norman Elizabeth Hitzges.
"I have kids, so when I get on the mound I see someone else trying to steal my job and make my life hell. So I try to do the same thing to them." -- Eric Gagne
by Agreen07 on Jan 14, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nevermind my previous post then
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So I guess we're supposed to summarily
dismiss all those rumors (there have been several) that the Rangers have been trying to trade Young since the Winter Meetings?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That may be true,
but they didn’t ask him to move to third because they want to get rid of his contract. They asked him to play third because they want him to play third.
www.mavsmoneyball.com
by Wes Cox on Jan 14, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's also worth noting...
that they asked him to move to third at the Winter Meetings, and his response was apparently to asked to be traded. Hence, they’ve been exploring trade options since the Winter Meetings. Crazy, I know…
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Jan 14, 2009 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's my problem with the analysis
If the Rangers were counting on MY becoming outraged, demanding a traide and that was the point, shouldn’t folks have anticipated how pissed off the casual fan (I dunno, 30%?) would be and that would drive down attendance?
Taking that issue into consideration, I would say the Rangers figured that winning is the only way to help attendance and decided this move would/could help that goal.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 2:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
ESPN CHAT RANGERS RELATED
Chris (Newport beach, CA): Jim, great chat as always! I was wondering when you were doing the minor league top 10’s, which orginization did you have the most trouble with in terms of their top three prospects? Marlins, Braves, other??
SportsNation John Manuel: (2:25 PM ET ) Neat question that I’ll answer even though I’m not Jim. The Braves was very tough — we went back and forth between Jason Heyward and Tommy Hanson; Hanson’s AFL performance and scouting reports were so loud and outsized, and he’s so much closer to the majors than Heyward, that we switched at the last minute. The Rangers top list and the Marlins are also interchangeable, and to me, you could argue Mike Stanton over Cam Maybin easily for the Marlins No. 1, K rate be damned! Those kinds of things tend to happen to strong organizations, and Texas and Florida rank 1-2 in our Org Rankings in the Prospect Handbook, which is at the printers now.
John B (Boston, MA): What value if any can the Rangers get for the overpaid yet highly effective Micheal Young? Would it be worth it or should they smarten up and allow him to stay at short?
SportsNation John Manuel: (2:41 PM ET ) That’s an unfortunate situation for the Rangers, isn’t it? For me, if you don’t think Young is your shortstop, you have to trade him to someone who wants him to play SS, because (a) his contract is outsized, and (b) he doesn’t really hit enough to be a 3b, and © he doesn’t want to play 3b anyway. Best course of action now for Texas seems to be keeping him as a SS this year to rehabilitate his trade value and hope you can deal him, if you truly believe in Andrus’ bat. I am an Andrus guy,for what that is worth.
Jason (Charlotte): Can you imagine the Atlanta system if they hadn’t made the Teixeria trade. Who would be number 1? Hanson, Feliz, Heyward, ??
SportsNation John Manuel: (2:49 PM ET ) Jason, I almost cannot imagine that. I ranked Feliz a notch ahead of Hanson in my personal top 50, even though I think Hanson is closer to being ready to help in the big leagues. Feliz has bigger stuff; I wonder a bit about his fastball command and efficiency, Hanson is ahead of him in both traits, and his secondary stuff is better, particularly his breaking balls. But Feliz’s stuff is more electric. I think Heyward would rank ahead of Andrus, but don’t forget the rest of that haul — Matt Harrison, Beau Jones . . . man, what a brutal, brutal deal that has turned out to be.
Matt, Norwalk CT: Best starter in 2011: Cahill, B Anderson, Matusz or Holland?
SportsNation John Manuel: (2:56 PM ET ) If he uses his fastball more often, I’ll say Matusz. His secondary stuff is so good, he missed a ton of bats in college by pitching off his curve, slider and changeup. My next pick would be Anderson, then Cahill and then Holland, who has the shortest track record of success among these guys. Four good guys to pick from.
Doug, Brooklyn, NY: C’mon, AL top 10 please! I won’t even hold it against you for knocking the NFL Hall of Fame when the MLB one has turned into the Hall of Pretty Good lately.
SportsNation John Manuel: (3:06 PM ET ) MLB’s HOF has actually improved its standards compared to the guys it used to allow in, but I agree the Rice vote doesn’t help the Hall. My AL top 10 went a little something like this; Wieters-Price-Feliz, then Travis Snider, Brett Anderson, fellow Greek-American Mike Moustakas, Chris Tillman, Trevor Cahill, Gordon Beckham and Brian Matusz.
Andy (Chicago, IL): When does the top 100 list come out? Which do you expect to have the most players on the list?
SportsNation John Manuel: (3:13 PM ET ) Top 100 comes out in late February and will feature a lot of Rangers, A’s and Marlins. In fact, to me the top six-seven organizations really are a lot better than Nos. 9-30; there’s a big dropoff. So those orgs will have the lions’ share of players. I’m talking about orgs like Atlanta, Cleveland, Tampa Bay and San Francisco.
by laxtonto on Jan 14, 2009 2:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I had a recent dynasty league minor league draft
And I hated taking another Ranger since I already had so many, but couldn’t resist and chose Feliz. Seeing this makes me feel a whole lot better about that pick.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Jan 14, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The 9/11 conspiracy theory is an excellent comparison.
I’m a firm believer in Occam’s Razor.
My 2009 New Years Resolution: Quit feeding the trolls.
by ghtd36 on Jan 14, 2009 2:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
tell me the truth
you first heard that theory from Contact, right?
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
The Wrestler
by Longhorn on Jan 14, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hell yes I did.
My 2009 New Years Resolution: Quit feeding the trolls.
by ghtd36 on Jan 14, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
By the way, underrated.
Jodie Foster, plus plus.
My 2009 New Years Resolution: Quit feeding the trolls.
by ghtd36 on Jan 14, 2009 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only if she's playing for the other team
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The morning Rosenthal broke the MY story ...
… ALL the juice that work at TBIA called in sick.
by shroomer on Jan 14, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
Are you suggesting that it there is a correlation?
If so, were they calling in sick because they were unhappy the story break?
Or because they didn’t want to face the music after leaking the story?
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 14, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I shouldn't be shocked at these media reactions, but
I still am. I know that the default reaction to any move by the Rangers front office is usually, “They screwed up another one,” and usually for good reason. This type of stuff floors me, though.
For the first time in my history of being a Ranger fan, I see a front office that has consistency in its plan and execution. They have been stockpiling pitching and up-the-middle defense in the minors because they want to build the franchise on those qualities. It is taking some time for these changes to be felt on the major league level, but they are coming.
And finally, when a move like this needs to be made — moving a player with a decent bat off a middle infield position to shore up the defense (even though the move may seem premature — at least they are being proactive and not reactive) — it’s motivated by….MONEY? Seriously?
I know the Rangers don’t have a good history of great front office decisions. They have overreacted and spent money poorly in the past. They have made bad trades. But in this case they are sticking with a long-term organizational belief and system. Could it be possible, at least a little, that they are working ahead of the curve because of their belief in their core principles of how a good baseball team is built?
by racecarr on Jan 14, 2009 3:00 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
Well said.
Nice post.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Jan 14, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Amen, brother
Well said.
My biggest problem with Hicks is this tendency to bounce around from plan to plan. It’s great to see him sticking with a plan for once in his life.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
by trza on Jan 14, 2009 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
" this reminds me of the 9/11 conspiracy theories"
Dallas lives off of conspiracy theories.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
by RangerMad on Jan 14, 2009 3:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing its a reference
to a small conspriacy theory about something that happened in Dallas. Something about a library, Cubans, and some other stuff. Its not that big of a deal anyways.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Jan 14, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey now
That shit’s true.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Jan 14, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
The NBA Finals being fixed is not really a conspiracy as it is fact.
by FuturePants on Jan 14, 2009 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but...
….we “live” off JFK? I don’t get it.
by FuturePants on Jan 14, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Dallas lived off of trans fats
I just moved here a few months ago, and I’ve seen alot more trans fats than I have conspiracy theories…
by cstorm15 on Jan 14, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's true
there are a lot at the fair.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jan 14, 2009 5:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I never understood the 9/11 conspiracy theory stuff anyways...
How could American pilots be convinced to commit suicide?
"I have kids, so when I get on the mound I see someone else trying to steal my job and make my life hell. So I try to do the same thing to them." -- Eric Gagne
by Agreen07 on Jan 14, 2009 3:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i thought it was more
that the terrorists were funded by the Bush administration
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
by ab03 on Jan 14, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
like everyone involved in such a process would be able to keep their mouths shut when someone would offer millions upon millions of dollars to sell that secret.
"I have kids, so when I get on the mound I see someone else trying to steal my job and make my life hell. So I try to do the same thing to them." -- Eric Gagne
by Agreen07 on Jan 14, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Talking Raners on B&S
direct link for those that have the fan blocked by work
by laxtonto on Jan 14, 2009 3:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Michael Young episode
With a couple of isolated exceptions (Gil LeBreton and….well, that’s about it I guess), this whole episode has driven my regard for DFW sports journalism to previously uncharted depths. I didn’t think much of most Rangers coverage to begin (with the exception of TR Sullivan and Evan Grant, who have been either silent in Grants’ case or “just the facts” in Sullivan’s). But this has really gotten pretty ridiculous.
I still think that Reeves’ column yesterday has been the biggest embarrassment, although to be fair he’s had a lot of competition.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
by trza on Jan 14, 2009 3:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I tried to make this point
in a comment of some other post, but you made it much more competently.
www.mavsmoneyball.com
by Wes Cox on Jan 14, 2009 3:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So let me make sure I have all this right.
Elvis Andrus is 20 years old and not ready for the big leagues.
Michael Young made it very well known during last season that he had no plans to switch positions and was adamant in that opinion.
Michael Young was given a bad contract two years ago by JD and has $ 62 million left to be paid over the next 5 years.
The Texas Rangers are under a hard cap of $ 68 million.
The Texas Ranger pitchers gave up 967 runs last year.
JD is paralyzed by his own past mistakes and has no money to spend and a hideous pitching staff to fix.
Michael Young is the FOTF and one of the most popular players in the history of the team.
Trading Michael Young would give the Rangers yet another pr black eye with the fans.
JD et al apparently told Young he was moving to 3B last December.
Various reports have surfaced that the Rangers have been trying to deal Young since the Winter Meetings.
Adam tells us today that any thoughts about the Rangers telling MYoung that he will move to 3B so he will ask to be traded, thus giving the Ranger FO the necessary pr cover is absurd.
Well, that settles that.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the thing, though
You’ve made it pretty clear that you think Daniels and Hicks are idiots.
Yet you also think that they colluded to come up with a plan to make Young so upset that he would demand a trade, while making Young look like the bad guy in all this, just to give the team PR cover to make a deal simply to cut payroll.
That’s a fairly complex plan for two morons to come up with, even together.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on Jan 14, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Join us, my friend.
My 2009 New Years Resolution: Quit feeding the trolls.
by ghtd36 on Jan 14, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Naah
I actually like debating Josey. I don’t agree with his opinions all that often, but he is a big fan of Bill James and sabermetrics, so that’s one area of common ground we have.
I’d also agree with Josey that Washington probably wasn’t the right hire, though I would have hired Manny Acta, not Trey Hillman, at the time.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on Jan 14, 2009 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
manny acta
that was the best hire. I stand by that as well
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
by ab03 on Jan 14, 2009 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No problems, RC
We’ve been set straight.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't heard anybody dispute your facts
just the usual character assassination.
You simply can’t burst the fantasy bubble…life will have no meaning!
I'm just killing time until I'm reincarnated.
by Clueless on Jan 14, 2009 10:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And I'm not really sure what I was thinking about
when I thought the Ranger FO would try to make MYoung look like the bad guy (a selfish player making great money who won’t do what he’s told for the good of the team no less!!) to their fans so they’d have pr cover.
What in their history would ever suggest that?
Yeah, they said Pudge didn’t know how to work with pitchers after he left and that ARod was a bad influence (he wore shorts when hitting off a tee one day by gawd) in the room after he left and that the Gambler was a good businessman dodging the better opponents in a contract year and that Tex wouldn’t listen to his dimwitted manager when he told him to work a pitcher in a blowout game …so why would I ever believe that the Ranger FO would be above throwing Michael Young under the bus!?!?
Completey absurd on my part.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 11:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
signing bonus
One aspect of this not focused on too much in discussion about the future liabillity on the contract being 5/60 or 62 rather than 5/80 is that to the extent it is the lower number that is to a considerable degree explained by signing bonus money under a contract that MY has yet to have a single at bat. Of course, you get yourself crazy if you start worrying about sunk costs rather than what to do next, but its still the case that the Rangers have given MY major compensation already under a contract he has yet to even begin fulfilling.
by Dalman on Jan 14, 2009 3:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Good to see this blog post
A rebuttal to any financial dumping reason for MY’s move to 3B needed to be put in a prominent place, with discussion. LSB is very widely read and an excellent forum for what you’ve said.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Jan 14, 2009 4:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what I was thinking...
what history do Tom Hicks and the Rangers have in wanting to get out of what they consider to be bad contracts in the name of “financial flexibility”?
Completely absurd, indeed.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ed, you used to make sense.
You’re now just another random voice.
I'm just killing time until I'm reincarnated.
by Clueless on Jan 14, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
uncouth
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Coffin to you
You numbnut.
Any kitsch you had has now been lost.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 11:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Beat Weed...
never had shit.
The guy doesn’t know his head from his ass.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Jan 14, 2009 11:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey
I don’t know if I mentioned this, but congrats to Utah. Sweeeeeet. Way to make a debate out of things.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jan 14, 2009 11:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Wyo.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Jan 15, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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