Young at 2nd base

by chase1971 on Jan 14, 2009 4:05 PM CST Comment 24 comments

Does anyone have the numbers back when he was at 2nd base? I just want to know what his defensive abilities were when he was playing 2nd base. I realize his lack of range will still be an issue over there but how much of an issue will it be? Could he be average defensively there or slightly above average? What was the general consensus about his defense at 2nd?

I need five more words

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No

It still leaves a hole at 3rd. If you move him to 2nd, you would make 3 changes.

by duyduck on Jan 14, 2009 4:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You didn't read...

what I asked

by chase1971 on Jan 14, 2009 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

http://www.baseball-reference.com/

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 14, 2009 4:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

My recollection is...

…that his +/- numbers his last season at 2B were well below average.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 14, 2009 4:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

-12 UZR, FWIW

He’s not moving back to second base, apparently, so it’s largely irrelevant anyway.

Baseball Time in Arlington

by Joey Matschulat on Jan 14, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well

he said he would move for other teams.

and i’m not sure i would be so quick to dismiss it as a possibility.

What if Kinsler makes a statement, a la MY in 2004, saying that he’ll move to LF so that Young can move to 2B and Young said he’d be fine with that. That would force the Rangers hand a slight bit, such that they might consider it if they though Young would be above average there.

He’s not moving, but I think his suckiness is kind of relevant to why he’s not moving

"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."

by ab03 on Jan 14, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand moving MY to 2B at all

With the large amount of 2B prospects in the system and the complete dearth of 3B ones, it just doesn’t make any sense. Unless, of course, Duran/Vallejo can be adequate 3rd basemen.

by hiafex on Jan 14, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

x

and i’m not sure i would be so quick to dismiss it as a possibility.

What if Kinsler makes a statement, a la MY in 2004, saying that he’ll move to LF so that Young can move to 2B and Young said he’d be fine with that. That would force the Rangers hand a slight bit, such that they might consider it if they though Young would be above average there.

They don’t want him at 2B, and they don’t want Kinsler in LF.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 14, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs

but they don't want him at 2B because he'd be bad there

If Young was a really good 2B, I think they’d have to think about moving Kinsler to LF

"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."

by ab03 on Jan 14, 2009 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought he was a pretty good 2B

Very quick on the double play ball. But he’s aged since then so it’s not something I’d consider.

613photo

by Black Francis on Jan 14, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

IIRC Kinsler has a whole point on MY in whatever the range rating is for MY's best year at 2b.

i remember young being a good 2b, but it seems Kinsler gets to a bunch more balls than MY did. at least when i investigated last season.

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 4:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Young had Tex to his left

and Arod to his right ….I thought he was a damn good 2nd baseman but I wonder if those two provided cover.

I have nothing to say

by rldwb on Jan 14, 2009 4:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't matter, it was a long time ago

and MY can’t cover as much ground as he used to, even if he was still limited

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 14, 2009 4:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

I went looking for different stuff I could find on his last year at 2nd and Dewan actually wrote a blurb about it

“Before switching over to shortstop, Young had a reputation as an excellent defensive second basemen. However, his 2003 plus/minus figure of -16 suggests otherwise. We reviewed videotape of many of his plays that year to try to figure out the discrepancy, because his basic tools are superb. The problem became apparent very quickly. He simply was playing too close to second base and missed hit after hit to his left. His plus/minus figure was -22 to his left that year and +10 to his right. Now, after having moved to shortstop in 2004, he continues to have problems to his left with a cumulative -46 over the last two seasons. He has a very strong arm and it seems pretty likely at this point that he shades too far to his right to try and take advantage of that arm. In 2005 the average Major League team allowed 292 hits up the middle or in the shortstop hole. The Rangers allowed 374. That was the most in baseball. So, in only two years of work as a shortstop, Young claims last place in three-year plus/minus, three-year zone ratings, team hits allowed near the shortstop position in 2005, and he’s second to last in Bill James’ new relative range plus/minus. Not good.”

http://actasports.com/sow.php?id=190

He was below average in his probabilistic range

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/005754.php

And Joey concluded that his UZR was at -12 so it seems pretty clear to me that Young was not a good defensive 2nd basemen.

by chase1971 on Jan 14, 2009 4:57 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

I gather

that MY should plant his ass in the hole at 3B?

That way, they can teach him a one-step dive to his right, with Andrus vacuuming anything unreachable to his left.

Give me Sheets or give me Offseason Blues Part III.

by Chase Irwin on Jan 15, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Enough of the MY...

to 2B people. His biggest problem is his range and 2B is STILL a middle infield position. He would be no better at 2B than he is at SS. Plus you don’t utilize his strongest asset which is a good arm.

No to 2B.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jan 14, 2009 6:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I agree with the limited range

However, fielding a ball to one’s left at SS vs 2B is entirely different.

When fielding a ball to one’s left from SS, the angle that one must take to the ball is virtually parallel with the first baseline, thus limiting the time one has to get to the ball.

When fielding a ball to one’s left from 2B, the angle that one can take is not as limited. On a hard hit ball, the fielder can angle back into the outfield, giving him more time and still have a short throw. On a slower hit ball, the fielder can take the more preferred parallel with the third base line approach. It seems his +/- discussed above may support this theory. However, one could also invoke the “diminished skills with age” clause.

While hard to prove or explain, it seems the angle at which the ball comes off the bat going up the middle of the infield is vastly different than when hit in the hole between first and second.

It seems MY’s range problem is more a function of him not seeing the ball off the bat. It seems that his first move is not until the ball has struck the ground. I’ve heard it said (don’t have the link) that Scott Rolen has tremendous range and reflexes at 3B because he picks up the ball off the bat, not off the ground.

Just though I’d bring that up. But I say no to 2B for him also.

by T Coleman on Jan 14, 2009 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

An interesting read...

About a year ago, some statisticians at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania released a study of the performances of major league fielders from 2002 through 2005. They broke it down position-by-position. Assuming I’m remembering correctly, Michael Young played second base for the Texas Rangers in 2002 and 2003, and then shortstop in 2004 and 2005. In their study, Michael Young the second baseman saved the Rangers 1.78 runs per season, whereas Michael Young the shortstop cost the Rangers 13.29 runs per season.

You can see the study conducted by Shane T. Jensen, Kenny Shirley, and Abraham Wyner by going to SAFE: Spatial Aggregate Fielding Evaluation. The position breakdowns and rankings can be found by scrolling to the bottom of the homepage.

"Alright class. Now that I've explained how silly the theory of evloution is, and how it's impossible for a specie to change over time, let's refocus on the Bible. I'd like to direct your attention to Genesis. Okay, now here's how the snake lost his voice..."

by YourNameHere on Jan 14, 2009 6:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

forward that to MY

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

young.mike@texasrangers.com

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 14, 2009 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It probably won't work...

When they showed the findings to Derek Jeter, who apparently cost the Yankees 13.81 runs per season as a shortstop during 2002-2005, he assumed that there must have been a computer glitch.

by YourNameHere on Jan 14, 2009 6:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I remember that

“What me? A poor fielding SS? The computer’s wrong. I dive into stands. I make jump throws. I’m awesome”

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 15, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he was still 20th

although, i can’t tell right away from the list who is a regular and who isn’t.

and, michael young’s argument about his SS numbers would be that he’s gotten better – which he has

"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."

by ab03 on Jan 14, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would rather trade Michael Young...

…than play him at second base.

Frankly, if there was one player I could add as a final piece for 2009 it would be Adrian Beltre at 3B. I don’t believe the division trade hurdle would be a big deal, especially if we could sign Beltre to an extension. After all he turns 30 this year… still in his prime!

We have the pitchers coming in the next two years, but no 3B even close. So lets give the kids the chance before Sheets or anybody else!

Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!

by pbpsean on Jan 15, 2009 12:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs