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Worst argument ever

Some clown in New York says Jeff Kent isn't a Hall of Famer.

Now, that's fine...I happen to think he's wrong, but whatever.

What is so stupid, though, is his argument about why Kent isn't a Hall of Famer...nevermind that Kent put up great numbers for a second baseman, according to this fool.  Middle infielders should be held to the same offensive standard as a first baseman or DH:

I say Kent cannot be looked at as a second baseman, especially in this day and age where middle infielders all over baseball are putting up numbers usually posted by outfielders and third baseman. We have to start judging players - other than catchers - as all part of the same pool. Is Nomar Garciaparra a Hall of Famer because he put up big numbers at shortstop?


Kent was never a great fielder. He had to hide somewhere and most teams chose to put him at second base. Also, Kent played in the steroids era, so all of the numbers from that time have to be judged on some sort of scale. 600 homers may have to be the new 500 homers.

And while Kent’s numbers may have gotten him into the Hall of Fame 10 years ago, they are comparable to several other players who will be retiring soon or have already retired and likely won't ever get in.

Albert Belle has more homers (381) than Kent. Is he a Hall of Famer?
Gary Sheffield has more homers (499), hits (2,615) and RBIs (1,633) than Kent. Is he a Hall of Famer?

Andres Gallarraga (399), Dale Murphy (398), Joe Carter (396), Jason Giambi (396), Vlad Guerrero (392), Craig Nettles (390), Dwight Evans (385), Harold Baines (384), Larry Walker (383) and Matt Williams (378) all have more homers than Kent. Only Guerrero has a legit shot to make it to Cooperstown.

Nevermind the stupidity of using home runs as a proxy for offensive ability.  Let's look at the guys he lists.

Belle, Sheffield, Carter, Guerrero, Evans, Baines, and Walker were all corner outfielders.  Murphy was a centerfielder.  Williams and Nettles were third basemen.  Giambi and Gallarraga were first basemen.

Only Murphy, Nettles and Williams were comparable on the defensive spectrum to Kent as a second baseman.  An argument can be made for Murphy, although his career as a great player was basically over by 31 (and he played almost as much in right field as in center), and Kent has better offensive numbers.

Nettles and Williams were both above-average players who put up big home run numbers, but whose OBPs and slugging percentages don't match up with Kent's.

And as a side note, of the guys he listed, Evans and Sheffield also deserve to be in the Hall, whether they have a legit shot or not.

But more importantly, the "defensive position makes no difference" argument is bogus, demonstrably so. B-R has splits for all the major leagues in 2008 by positions

And thus, by following that link, you can clearly see that first basemen put up an 817 OPS in 2008.  It was 798 for right fielders, 786 for left fielders.

Second basemen?  747 OPS.  And shortstops (who this guy wants to lump in with LFs, 1B, et al)?  718.

Saying that there should be no distinction made between the offensive numbers a second baseman puts up and the offensive numbers a first baseman or COF puts up is asinine, and reveals a fundamental lack of understanding about the game.

And annoys me enough for me to make a whole post responding to it.

 

0 recs  |  Comment 17 comments |

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Yeah that's pretty stupid.

I also hate it when people say Kent or anybody else for that matter, is a hall of famer but not on the first ballot. Most ridiculous reasoning in sports.

"Obama is a Christian - He's always been a Christian...But.........what if he is[a Muslim]? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no, that's not America." Colin Powell on Obama/Muslim assertions.

by AirJordan on Jan 22, 2009 12:25 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The comparative players #'s

Would’ve made more sense for Jim Rice than it does for Kent.

LOL Sorry the Sooners will score more that 14. - boomer1

by venturafearsnolan on Jan 22, 2009 12:31 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

harrumph

The moves being made are too extra for my taste.

by shroomer on Jan 22, 2009 12:31 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

You

watch your ass.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 22, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

haha

Nice linkage.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 22, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Too stupid of an article

to get worked up about. To me, if someone makes a premise that dumb, all other words from their mouth/pen/keyboard are immediately nullified.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 22, 2009 12:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The guy makes a dumb argument

but going by the eye test, Did anyone really feel they were watching a HOFer with Kent? With below average defense I do expect more offensively. Never led the league in anything, and was top ten in OPS once. Thought Bonds deserved the 2000 MVP. With that being said, I can see the merits. Just wish the HOF was a little less inclusive.

by scoop16 on Jan 22, 2009 12:45 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

+1

1) That’s a ridiculous argument

2) I wouldn’t vote Kent in, although I can see how some would. he’s borderline IMO.

3) Does anyone know the best way to clean soot off of the brick on a fireplace?

Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.

by TheJeezus on Jan 22, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

That argument is horrendous but I too am not sure about Kent as a HOF. He is extremely borderline imo.

as for 3….cant help ya

by Horns130 on Jan 22, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

3

Sponge (maybe 2 or 3, they wear out on brick) and bleach. You’ll end up doing the whole fireplace so there is no ’wash line".

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Jan 22, 2009 10:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i think you still have to compare him to his cohort of second basemen and not the rest of the league

yes his poor defense should be a factor, but even without leading the league in anything, he was consistently leading or near the top in major offensive categories for 2nd basemen.

i personally feel he is on the borderline but will probably get in because offensive numbers overshadow defensive mediocrity in the eyes of many voters.

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jan 22, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kent's a HOF

Look at his OPS+ right here. More specificallym look at what he was able to do from 98 through 2007. He never posted an OPS+ less than league average until 2008 and posted an OPS+ of at least 110 in all but 5 of his 17 years in the league (including 2008). He was either great or he was good, never anything worse. Yeah, he wasn’t too good of a fielder, but given the position he played, his offense was more than enough to make up for it.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 22, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's defense doesn't deserve any crap.

Let alone the crap it gets.

And, yes, watching a second baseman hit like that, I did, of course, think I was watching a Hall of Famer.

by philkid3 on Jan 22, 2009 5:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Somewhat OT -- McGwire's brother says Mark used 'roids

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28795050/

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 22, 2009 1:04 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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