A simple question
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 23, 2009 5:50 PM CST
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The optimist in me still says yes
That Gold Glove for Young was the worst thing that could have happened to Texas - now the guy really believes he's good at short. - Keith Law
Let me balance it out for ya
If they do, then he wont start 20 games, guaranteed.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
oh and to further balance it out
after he is hurt and only starts maybe 40 games over 2 years, Hicks will use it as an excuse to not sign any veterans when we really need to to compete for a WS in 2011-13
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
some of both
i just dont have any faith in hicks at all, and i think he feels burned by signing very easily. one arm blow out from sheets before june with him on a 3 year deal and its pretty over in my book. hicks just wont spend again if it happens for a couple years.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
and i just dont see it as a risk worth taking
given this teams position in a rebuild and the owners salary constraints over the last couple seasons. save it for a guy when we really need it to compete for a world series, not when we are praying to be over .500 and trying to figure out which young guys fit into the rotation long term.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
Problem is....
that when we need the pitcher to compete, there’ll be no ace available (barring Arizona being stupid and not picking up his option).
If you’re targetting 2010, you should pick someone up today to help you because the FA market for 2009-2010 is going to be bare for pitchers.
R
well thanks jayslick...
For bringing down the mood of the room. I bet you are a hit at all the parties
cmon people! It's the rangers we're talking about here
have you forgotten what happens when you get your hopes up about a FA pitcher. He will most likely not sign here and this poll is WAAAAAAAAAY too optimistic. We are still talking about the Rangers right?
Next Year! We Swear!
I don't really see that as a concern
Sheets is an accepted risk, and even if he only starts 20 games, he’s still more valuable than our other pitchers combined.
That Gold Glove for Young was the worst thing that could have happened to Texas - now the guy really believes he's good at short. - Keith Law
Well I have to be optimistic and vote yes
Though I don’t actually think its any better than a coin toss right now.
the preceding post was a great success.
I know it will happen.
And I will
be the first to say “I told you so”
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
you can't say I told you so when almost everyone at least thinks the rangers have a shot at him.
the preceding post was a great success.
of course i'm saying that cause i'm stupid but still. 100% sure.
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
Ok, but signing sheets wouldn't mean it was a 100% chance...
the preceding post was a great success.
In my head there is a 100% chance.....?
I don’t know what else there is to say really.
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
I've committed ~50 words to this
I estimate that at 32 seconds time spent writing.
the preceding post was a great success.
As my good friend Chase Irwin said.
“it wasn’t worth 10 seconds of anyone’s life”
He is one smart dude.
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
wow
there’s going to be a lot of disappointed LSB’ers.
including me
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
We are Texas ranger fans....
we have been screwed before….thi isn’t our first rodeo.
by death of the cool on Jan 23, 2009 6:55 PM CST up reply actions
I'll still be disappointed
but I voted ‘No’ because I know how these things work.
This is one case I’d certainly enjoy being proven wrong though.
I voted No
just to negate Adam’s attempt to jinx this deal. By all that is holy, quit messing with fate.
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
Yes vote
Only because I think it would be money well spent. Sheets has a lot of good starts in him even if he can’t make the proscribed 34, and it’s about time an “expected win” pitcher got the momentum going here.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Jan 23, 2009 5:59 PM CST reply actions
I don't think we sign him
but Sheets could teach the young guys how to pitch by example (when he is able to). Sheets goes deep into games, doesn’t walk anybody, and uses his fastball very effectively. He’s an ace that could help mentor Feliz and Holland, much like what Vizquel can do for Andrus. This would be wise for many reasons.
Saying all of that, the Rangers won’t sign him probably because they feel like McCarthy is really good and will be healthy all year….lolololololol. Yeah, right
Next Year! We Swear!
I couldn't bring myself to vote yes.
The comments from JD don’t sound like someone who’s really trying to sign Sheets, they sound like someone who wants it known that they are trying to sign Sheets. Maybe this is just me being pessimistic….the thing that gives me the most hope is that he doesn’t seem to be on any other team’s radar.
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 23, 2009 6:00 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Too many opinions pointing to...yes.
But a player with his ability isn’t languishing for nothing.
The only reason is medical risk, that’s become wholly obvious. We can only hope the price is discounted (cf: Lowe, Derek), because this is a player whose body will never fully accept the demands of pitching.
Anyway the hometown angle is going to win out: the deal’ll get done.
Go Strangers.
"a player whose body will never fully accept the demands of pitching."
Fuck, you gonna start using that stupid phrase now too?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
See, the problem is that
the body is just being stubborn. We got to get Nolan to fight the body one on one and show him who’s the boss around here.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
When healthy
he’s a legit front of the rotation guy, and he’s not really blocking any of the young guys progress this year. It’d be a nice end to a relatively quiet offseason, so make it so JD. Particularly, if the numbers being thrown around are somewhat accurate, pretty good gamble. Hope I am wrong, but I still find it hard to believe they are going to want to bring the extra salary onboard without getting rid of someone.
From Heyman
New Medical Report Reassures Sheets’ Suitors?
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [January 23 at 6:05pm CST]
SI.com’s Jon Heyman has heard from MLB executives that a new record of Ben Sheets’ medical history “may have sparked some renewed interest in the talented pitcher.”
Sheets provided teams with updated information about his health. Heyman learned that previous health reports were not “debilitating,” but they had issues. The Rangers, Mets and Brewers are presumably among the teams currently looking over the new information.
I don't know If Im happy or upset at that.
In that its better for him to be healthy if he signs of course, but it decreases the chance he does.
the preceding post was a great success.
that's not good news for the rangers
and he most likely won’t sign here. So much false hope is going to make the LSB nation fall flat on their faces
Next Year! We Swear!
That's been the thing all along
Of course teams are concerned with his health and I’m sure Sheets has gotten two year offers. But that makes no sense for him. He just finished his age 29 season. A two year deal does him no good. He’s looking for 4-5 is my guess, and that’s why the Rangers won’t sign him . He’ll probably sign a 3 year deal with a 4th team option and the release of medical records (retesting/recreation) is to get that accomplished.
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
4 to 1 yes?
all these fragile hopes sprouting up high like spring flowers….only to be trampled by the hooves of harsh reality.
I’m trying to manage my expectations.
no.
I say No
Won’t believe it until it happens, and I still think it’s unlikely
The Mets will eventually be willing to go to four years for Oliver Perez. Meanwhile, the Mets have growing interest in Ben Sheets. A source says that the Mets don’t think Sheets’ arm is perfect, but it is not terrible either.
this doesn’t bode well. another visit to DFW from a player in order to go to another team.
Next Year! We Swear!
Can't believe the results
People sure are feeling optimistic around here.
I say not a chance in hell.
good thing we're not in hell or there would be no chance.
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
I voted No.
I think he will want more money from the Rangers than he would from say the Mets if they were intersted in a 2 year deal. I think the Rangers stay away from because of his injury status. Dont get me wrong I like Sheets alot and I think with having Maddux here hand him being a semi local guy helps our case.
Where is Benji Gil when you need him.
I voted Yes...
but I think right now it’s about 55/45. I really hope this gets done. However with each passing day I get less optimistic.
If not with the Rangers I think he goes back to Milwaukee and Perez stays with the Mets.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I want to vote yes...
but the ranger fan in me is too skeptical
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
I voted no
But now I’m wondering. The reason I said n is we heard too much about payroll constraints at the beginning of the offseason.
That said, perhaps solving the 3B situation basically from within has helped the payroll concern. Maddux is here, so that doesn’t hurt. Interest from other teams doesn’t seem huge (which is a little concerning in itself).
Nope, I’m still going no.
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
I'm not sure if that's sarcasm or not
Perhaps you’re saying this is too logical for the Rangers to do.
As I said earlier, I think Sheets is looking for 4-5 guaranteed years but will get 3. Even three doesn’t work for the Rangers. The Rangers’ window to compete might be a little narrow and if they have to carry an oft injured pitcher 3 years from now at a medium sized salary, that could be a big problem.
I’d be happy if they got him. Really happy. But I think the timing might not be right.
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
He'll get two
with a vesting option, perhaps 2 vesting option years. I don’t see any team giving him 3 guaranteed years in this market. If he wants 4 years he’s going to have to take a low base salary each year with incentives galore.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
If I think No I won't be disappointed if it doesn't happen
FOR MANLY LOVE BE HERE MARCH 25TH AT 2:15 AM SHARP
No expectations, no dissapointments
Actually not a bad life philosophy… however, it’s almost an impossible one to truly follow.
That Gold Glove for Young was the worst thing that could have happened to Texas - now the guy really believes he's good at short. - Keith Law
yes
Hurley’s injury underscores the need for SP depth. They will also sign another pitcher (Jennings?) to a minor league deal and keep Madilla and Padilla until the deadline.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
I voted NO
because if Sheets signs here it means he has NO value to the rest of the league and therefor I have NO interest in him.
This is like saying you entered a contest to win a date with Halle Berry, a contest you had no chance in winning, until she suffered an unfortunate accident(suffering third degree burns to her entire body and having all her extremities amputated) and what do you know, all other suitors dropped out and hello Johnny, we have a winner. No Thanks……I’ll pass
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 7:38 PM CST reply actions
Then stop thinking
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
You know, I retract it.
mea culpa
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
Reprise your title
Quick, say something stupid.
You like the new helmets, don’t you?
the preceding post was a great success.
you're an idiot
if he signs here many conclusions can and should be drawn, and none of them are positive.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
time waste......
1. he’s not healthy.
2. no other team wanted him
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:06 PM CST up reply actions
so you think.....
1. he’s healthy,
2. and in high demand?
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions
I think.
He’s a good pitcher that is better than any starter we have right now. That will help this team a whole hell of a lot. That’s good enough for me.
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
if he's
not healthy your point about him being better than anyone on our staff is moot.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:13 PM CST up reply actions
Who is saying he's not healthy enough to pitch this season?
If he was in that bad of shape, I doubt the rangers or mets would even be considering him.
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
so
you thing he’s healthy enough to pitch somewhat consistently this year and only three teams are interested in his services? How do you explain the lack of interest?
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:19 PM CST up reply actions
Close.
I THINK he’s healthy enough to pitch somewhat consistently this year and only three teams are interested, because the other teams don’t want/need to take any kind of risk.
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
t-ball
says all teams take flyers/risks…….
It would seem Sheets would have the WHOLE league interested at his current rumored price.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions
terrible logic
the “consensus” isn’t always right. There was heavy bidding on Zito and he turned out to be a bust. The flip side is also true – sometimes teams misjudge players after they come back from injury and don’t know what to expect. We did a pretty good job with Gagne in that respect.
Lots of teams can’t really afford sheets or have already blown their load earlier in the off season. that does not apply to us
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Gagne's a decent example
Of course, he crapped the bed when we traded him, steroid allegation were all over the place, but we lucked out.
Wait, that’s a terr
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
we made it work for half a season
which is all we needed.
I also think Gagne’s demise was more of a mental issue.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Shit
I didn’t mean to post that. I meant to hit “cancel”. Sorry. Seriously. I was going to rewrite things. I often write a stream of consciouness and then edit before I submit. You can tell it by the end (that’s a terr[ible example]).
As far as Gagne, he was a great 1 year flyer. But he had a lot of issues (some of which came out in the Mitchell Report that GMs should have known). Comparing him to a 2 (probably 3) year deal for Sheets is different. If Gagne crapped out the whole year, whatever. Sheets will be longer term investment.
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
2 years
with even a vesting 3rd year isn’t really a big deal.
I just can’t see the Rangers thinking that they won’t spend on someone next year (who’s really out there that is going to make a splash that we need?) because we are spending 10M on Sheets in 2010.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
and actually
I’m not sure you need much more than 10M if Sheets is completely unhealthy. If he accepts an incentive laden deal, you could probably cap the cost of a DOA Sheets pretty well.
He might not accept an incentive laden deal, but if he doesn’t, then I doubt he gets more than 12M tops for the second year. 10 is probably a good bet though.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
I'd say you're the idiot
If that’s what you really think.
That Gold Glove for Young was the worst thing that could have happened to Texas - now the guy really believes he's good at short. - Keith Law
I like it
the new and improved, less douchey LSJ, please.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:07 PM CST up reply actions
So, basically...
…if he signs somewhere else, he would have helped the Rangers and we suck for not signing him.
But if he signs here, then it is because he sucks and only the Rangers are stupid enough to sign him.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 23, 2009 8:14 PM CST up reply actions
nope.
I think it will be a bad signing, no matter where he goes. But more so for a team with a budget of 65million. Teams with that kind of payroll don’t need to be taking flyers……..
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:16 PM CST up reply actions
flyers
that equate to 15% of payroll? No.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:23 PM CST up reply actions
Okay
Let’s say there’s a 50% chance he stays healthy.
If he’s healthy, and you knew he’d be healthy in 2009, he’d be worth $20 million on a one year deal.
Either you get a legit ace who help make the team a possible playoff contender, or you get nothing.
I’d rather spend $9 million on that than on a Jon Garland-type proven bleah.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 23, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
I don't
see us competing in ‘09(I know you can’t fathom that someone thinks the Rangers won’t be good this year). SO if Sheets helps you win an extra 4 games or so I see no benefit or point in the signing.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:29 PM CST up reply actions
that's why it's a 2 year deal
and we probably wouldn’t just let him walk if pitched well
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
x
(I know you can’t fathom that someone thinks the Rangers won’t be good this year).
Give it a rest, already. At least Josey is entertaining sometimes.
I’ve said I see them as around a .500 team. Your endless attempts to portray me as a empty-headed homer is stupid.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 23, 2009 8:31 PM CST up reply actions
you clearly
think this team might be a broken down, 100 inning ace away from the playoffs, and I find that to be delusional. Sorry.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions
not this year
NOT THIS YEAR.
god, you are a dumbass. and it bugs me to think that you are older than 25. Nobody can be that stupid and that old.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Playoffs or nothing, rig
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
Playoffs or nothing?
What’s wrong with being better? An incremental improvement with a FA that doesn’t cost a first rounder sounds perfect. Espectially if he isn’t costing that much.
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
And I find you to be pitiful
Sorry.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 23, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
let me use language that you
find “entertaining”:
If “This Thing” has a .500 record in “The Show” this year me and my posting will be more than happy to head out to pasture. Of course if you had to bet your house on an over/under 80 game win total I imagine you would take the under.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 9:00 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, it does
When you’re a guy who’s ERA+’d nearly 120 or higher every year since 2004 (low of 117 in ’07).
The Rangers have has ONE guy ERA+ over 110 since 2004, and that was Kenny Rogers in 2005.
I don’t think you really realize how good Ben Sheets is.
That Gold Glove for Young was the worst thing that could have happened to Texas - now the guy really believes he's good at short. - Keith Law
apparently
neither does the rest of MLB. I guess we are about to really pull one over on the rest of the league.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:28 PM CST up reply actions
Pretty much, yeah.
At a risk, but given the possible reward for a pitching starved team, it’s more than worth it if you can net a pitcher of Sheets quality.
That Gold Glove for Young was the worst thing that could have happened to Texas - now the guy really believes he's good at short. - Keith Law
rest of the mlb
except the mets.
and I guess we didn’t pull one over the league with derosa, or GMJ, or gagne
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Sheets would be
the best starter the Rangers have had in a dozen years or more. Yes, you sign him at 15% of the payroll.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
how many games
must he start to meet your “best pitcher Rangers have had in a dozen years” criteria? 1, 10, 20, 30, 40???? And if he doesn’t meet your minimum # of starts then isn’t your assesment of him “being the best…….” incorrect.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions
I'm invoking
the no reply pledge here. I will never reply to you again, fencepost.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
The whole time I was reading this little thread
I was thinking of your no reply pledge, and wondering if people responding here had pledged it.
I'm sory to have upset your
Ranger euphoria. I will pray tonight that we sign Sheets, Elvis doesn’t lead the league in errors, Cruz does something he’s never done(hit ML pitching), that Kinsler doesn’t get hurt(again), that MY doesn’t continue his offensive regression, that we FIND a closer, that Millwood(or Padilla) has an ERA under 5, that Luis Mendoza, Gabbard, Nippert, and Feldman all perform admirably in their inevitable 10 -20 starts(a piece), and that Ron Wash figures out how to manage, all so that you and yours can live out your most orgasmic Ranger fascinations.
LSB- Reality and Levity be damned
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:47 PM CST up reply actions
and the payroll
(we all hope) is artificially depressed because of our rebuilding situation. I don’t think it’s the case that we are really a 65M team or that Hicks can’t afford more than 65M
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
So who are we signing instead?
That this wasted money would change?
Apparently any high priced free agent starting pitcher would only come here in a stupid deal, so lets cross off pitching.
We’ve got C, 1b, 2b, ss, 3b, CF, LF, and RF locked down cheaply aside from MY….
the preceding post was a great success.
Sheets
isn’t high priced, and that is the point. The market is reflecting his current value, and it is LOW. Why? Because he is HURT, or nearly so.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
this isn't a completely free market that you can trust like the stock market
there are only 30 teams. Contracts are not accurate reflections of how good a player is. Maybe if we had a million people bidding on a player they would be. As it stands, we have overpaid and underpaid players all over the league
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
seriously,
why aren’t the Angels in on Sheets? They’ve got the funds after missing on Teix.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:31 PM CST up reply actions
do you not see why your logic is retarded?
We are only supposed to target the pitchers the Angels target?
Maybe the Angels don’t take risks on players after injuries. Lucky for us, we do. And, with Gagne, it worked out pretty well.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
u arent even
taking any baseball logic into account. what ab03 posted directly above you’re previous post is exactly the logic you need to listen to. You’re logic is base on a perfect market, but the baseball is far from a perfect market. And ultimately, even in a perfect market, Ben Sheets would still be a good signing for the Rangers simply because there isnt a team in this league that needs quality pitching more than the Rangers. And outside of CC or maybe Derek Lowe, Ben Sheets has provided the most consistently good to great starting pitching when healthy on the FA market.
Chris (NJ): I am personally offended at how you ranked a prospect from my favorite team, even though I do not know said prospect, nor have I ever seen him play. In my opinion you only have your job because, like your employers, you have an unholy bias towards my favorite team’s rival. Also, you’re short.
Keith Law: You’re right. I am short.
when healthy
you could argue Sheets is one of the best three pitchers in all of baseball. Any and all teams could use that, especially at 10mill per. This isn’t a market thing, it is an injury thing. Better injury history and dude signs for $18mil/season and the Rangers never sniff the guy.
This is soooooooooooooooooo simple. Sheets is available because he is a HUGE injury risk. This risk IS what makes him available to the Ranger’s to potentially be in on the bidding as it has dropped Sheets’ price well below what ACE pitchers command. No injury, no Ranger involvement.
If he is such a bad risk that only 2 or 3 teams find him to have value at $9mil per season than I take that as an ominous sign. EVERY team should be interested in Sheets at that price. Read again: EVERY team. But that aren’t, and that concerns me. Could we take a flyer on him and win the lottery, hell yeah we could. I just wouldn’t count on it.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 24, 2009 8:32 AM CST up reply actions
AJ Burnett has the same injury risk
and he got paid alot of money by the Yanks.
Actually Sheets has pitched more over the past 5 years than Burnett
Next Year! We Swear!
Redux. Dumbest. Argument. Ever.
Since the Rangers signed him he must suck, because someone else would have first.
You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board. And I’m not throwing that out lightly.
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
comprehension
eludes you once again.
I think Sheets is a bad signing for anyone.
The fact remains that if the Rangers sign Sheets, given our payroll, his price must have been dramatically lower than was perceived heading into the offseason. This of course would be due to HUGE injury concerns, and therefore, I think, a bad signing. If we signed Sheets, in an alternate universe, at 4/75, I would take that to be a wonderfull sign. It would mean that the consensus was that he was healthy and ready to be our ACE. How this gets LSB all offended and perturbed is beyond me.
We are all guessing at his health. I am using the market interest, or lack there of, to determine that he is not healthy, and not a pitcher that will help the Rangers. Are you saying the only valid opinion is, “The Rangers should sign Ben Sheets.” There is NO valid argument for passing?
Show me, logically, where my argument breaks down…….
Thanks in advance for your time, and your courage.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 9:12 PM CST up reply actions
I get your argument
Same (well similar) to race drivers who can’t get a ride after trashing a couple of million dollar vehicles and never finishing on the points leader board, never mind they won back to back twice the previous year. Owners won’t touch them until they come down in price and re-establish.
Now if Sheets signs here, imports his drinking water from Lourdes, and wins 17 and 18 over the next two years, the signing is a coup. However – BIG ever – doesn’t matter unless he actually inks here. Or goes elsewhere and wins 20+ and is among the leaders in ERA+ and WHIP. Then the snow monkeys will howl “we shudda, we shudda”
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Jan 23, 2009 9:17 PM CST up reply actions
If
he ends up settling for a 2 year deal to try and re-establish his market value wouldn’t RBPiA be the last place to do that. If he’s goiung to settle for what amount to peanuts why not go to a more pitcher friendly park to post the #’s you suggest and then cash in in two years.
If he signs with the Rangers I think Sheets is thinking it is his last deal anyway. Ask Millwood what pitching here does for your future earning potential.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 9:22 PM CST up reply actions
A hopefully decent retort
After Ed’s, I’ll do my best.
The fact remains that if the Rangers sign Sheets, given our payroll, his price must have been dramatically lower than was perceived heading into the offseason. This of course would be due to HUGE injury concerns, and therefore, I think, a bad signing.
Not sure what you mean, but I’ll say, one does not equate the other. Sure there’s an injury risk. Every team has recognized that. You’ve said that. Now, not news.
We are all guessing at his health. I am using the market interest, or lack there of, to determine that he is not healthy, and not a pitcher that will help the Rangers. Are you saying the only valid opinion is, "The Rangers should sign Ben Sheets." There is NO valid argument for passing?
Of course not. I’ve said that here. But my point is, as always has been, that you believe the lack of interest from other teams directly means that he isn’t worth it. That’s you’re mistake.
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
he "could" be worth it, I agree.
I’m just playing the odds. And using what available information there is out there. I’m using the other teams lack of interest as a huge piece of evidence in my case against the signing. But OF COURSE everyone else could be wrong, and I for one would LOVE it if he signed here and dominated. I AM A RANGER FAN! I don’t wish failure on the team, sadly I’m just sort of predicting it for this THIS year. Now in 2010…….
Your last paragraph does not represent my opinion or view on this subject. If my earlier posts implied this then I am a poor writer, apparently unable to accurately portray my opinions with the written word.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions
The Mets
The Mets are interested in him, it all hinges on what the Mets do or don’t do.
by SanDiegoKev on Jan 23, 2009 11:51 PM CST up reply actions
Longest. Dumbest. Analogy. Ever.
Oh, and you’re a shitty, superficial person. Cause she still got a cooch.
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
can I interest
you in Urethra Franklin?, seeing as how she has a “cooch”.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:03 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not intersted in anyone's urethra
you sicko.
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
So do you think
That living in Dallas and having his old pitching coach here has no chance at all of actually causing him to have interest in the rangers?
Its a depressed market. Some can’t spare the money at all. Some already spent the money on other starters. Some have enough starting pitching that they don’t want to risk it for an injury risk. Some arn’t actually any better than the rangers and are in hitting parks of their own.
Ben Sheets is the Pat Burrell of pitchers. Hes in the wrong offseason.
the preceding post was a great success.
A healthy Sheets
gets offers comparable to Sabathia, even in this market. The problem is not the economy, it’s Sheets’ arm.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
by red shoe ranger on Jan 23, 2009 8:21 PM CST up reply actions
False.
A healthy sheets has a checkered injury past regardless that significantly break down his value, particularly in # of years he can get which is what makes CCs contract so huge.
But the rangers dont HAVE to get 220 innings out of Sheets for him to help them. If sheets is currently healthy but has one of his usual problems and throws only 140 innings.. in all likelihood its still worth 10 mil to the rangers.
140 innings of ben sheets is oh so helpful when compared to 140 innings of the 5th starters that would otherwise get said innings.
Now, if hes not currently healthy.. well then you probably don’t want to give 2+1 at 10 mil or over. But we don’t know that, his injury isn’t supposed to effect him in 2009.
the preceding post was a great success.
i know
we have done some kind of statistical analysis on this in the past, but id love to see it broken down again what the difference in runs allowed would look like… Just off the top of my head id say the era’s would look something like a 3.80 ERA for Sheets and a 5.50 ERA for the Nipperts, Feldmans, Mendoza’s of the world (that might be lenient to the Ranger’s 5th starters). So over 140 innings that would like 1.7 runs per 9 innings * 15.5 = 26 runs, and thats a low end guess id say. Im not sure how many wins thats worth, but id say at least 4 or 5 if not more. So even if Sheets suffers a rather significant injury that takes him out for over 70 IP which is about 10+ starts of him and nearly two months of injury, he still is gonna be so worth it for the Rangers.
Chris (NJ): I am personally offended at how you ranked a prospect from my favorite team, even though I do not know said prospect, nor have I ever seen him play. In my opinion you only have your job because, like your employers, you have an unholy bias towards my favorite team’s rival. Also, you’re short.
Keith Law: You’re right. I am short.
Don't you compare
Feldman to Mendoza.
I will fight everyone in this thread over that.
Scott Feldman for 2009 AL Cy Young
is there ballot stuffing going on for this
or are people really this delusional?
Next Year! We Swear!
A more telling poll
Would be what % chance do you think there is sheets come here.
Its not like all these yes votes think its a sure thing.
the preceding post was a great success.
the question is pretty clear
if you think Sheets is actually going to be a ranger, you vote yes. I just don’t get all the yes votes. It doesn’t make sense based on our history. This is way too optimistic approach. I hate being a wet blanket, but a more realistic end to this will be Sheets’ signing with the Mets. As a ranger fan, I hope the Mets sign Perez which would probably take them out of the Sheets running. Otherwise, the Mets will land Sheets.
Next Year! We Swear!
The poll
Doesn’t have
- “I don’t know”
- “Maybe”
Left with Yes or No, all those qualifying arguments for either vote could be rebutted.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Jan 23, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
I didnt say anything about the question not being clear
i said a DIFFERENT poll might be more helpful.
the preceding post was a great success.
Why not us?
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
probably deserves a fanpost
Spot on and balanced.
"drawing walks is an overrated trait in my eyes."
"i do believe we could have 4 30 start pitchers in the rotation."
-- both these genius remarks brought to you by our resident guru, bigsteve
but he's just managements stooger according to josey
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jan 24, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
ha
*stooge
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jan 24, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
what's going to suck
is hearing the inevitable excuse for not signing sheets.
we will all think the contract terms should have been somethign the rangers will be able to afford but we’ll get some JD press release like, “we’re confident about the rotation going into the season and really want to give some of our young guys a chance.”
What is most frustrating about the Sheets situation is that there aren’t many justifiable reasons to pass on a short term contract like that. I haven’t heard a rational reason yet – even given the Hicksian budget constraints.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
by ab03 on Jan 23, 2009 8:21 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Devil's advocate (I like Sheets)
Is it a short term contract?
If it is, it’s a no brainer. But he just finished his age 29 season. One year contract he might do but the Rangers might not (what’s the benefit when they’re trying to push for something longterm). Two with an option? Good for the Rangers bad for Sheets (possibley leaving him out in the wind when he’s a 31 yo FA if he has injury issues?). But once you get to 3-4 guaranteed, the Rangers should balk.
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
I'm back on my optimistic outlook...
he’s as good as penned in as our opening day starter.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
75% Yes? Defies Historical Data!
Again, like the World Series, I am in the minority.
You guys don’t bet a lot, do you?
I'm just killing time until I'm reincarnated.
I'm not sure this is as much optimisim
As it is wishful thinking, at least on my part… but, I suppose, those two things could technically be considered the same thing.
That Gold Glove for Young was the worst thing that could have happened to Texas - now the guy really believes he's good at short. - Keith Law
Good lord.
72% yes? Sorry, it’s not happening.
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
If this same poll was asked last week
I’d imagine the results would have been much different.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
cant wait to be in the opening day crowd...
with the rangers wearing red hearing chuck morgan saying “and your starting pitcher, Ben Sheets”
When?
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
Wouldn't Sheets Cost the Rangers a Draft Pick?
If so, signing him flies in the face of the direction that mgmt has chosen. Also, he would make it too easy for headline writers to make stupid puns. I say no. Gimme the draft pick instead.
Free Frank Catalanotto
You'd pass up Sheets for a second-round pick?
by Joey Matschulat on Jan 24, 2009 2:10 AM CST up reply actions
"Gimme the draft pick instead"
Wow. That’s just bad. That’s bad bad logic.
-I’d like to give a shoutout to whoever is still up at this hour. The night has just begun. Oh yeah.
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
Shoutout right back atcha.
That Gold Glove for Young was the worst thing that could have happened to Texas - now the guy really believes he's good at short. - Keith Law
Two years ago
I would probably agree with you. But now the Rangers have enough depth in their system that they can afford to lose the draft pick for the potential benefits of adding Sheets.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Why I voted yes—what team has shown any genuine interest in Sheets besides the Rangers?
Unless he goes crawling back to Milwaukee like Craig Counsell just did, nobody’s going to sign him unless he takes a massive pay cut, and he isn’t going to want to do that. If he did…he could have just gone back to Milwaukee.
craig cousell isn't quite in the same league with Sheets
but i get your point. At the same time, interest is growing for Sheets
Next Year! We Swear!
WOO.
This makes my 100% go to 101%
http://www.star-telegram.com/281/story/1162287.html
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
This made my blood boil
Now ask yourself: Who would you rather have? Sheets for 20 games before whatever ails him starts ailing him? Or a season of healthy Scott Feldman?
10 OUT OF 10 TIMES, YOU TAKE FELDMAN FROM ACROSS THE HALL.
But seriously. I still think Scott plays a big role for this team, even IF Sheets signs here.
Scott Feldman for 2009 AL Cy Young
I agree.
People just like to pick on poor scotty. Sheets will have his back.
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
Here.
This one is just as good and with no Scott bashing.
http://www.star-telegram.com/284/story/1162289.html
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
even if we sign sheets
feldman still probably gets plenty of starts.
the preceding post was a great success.
Twins?
If Sheets doesn’t sign with the Phils, which he probably won’t, then I hope the Rangers get him.
By the way, does Derrick Turnbow look like Boober from Fraggle Rock- http://morehardball.blogspot.com/2009/01/more-twins-other-than-minnesota.html
We Should Be GM's @ http://pabaseball.blogspot.com
More Hardball @ http://morehardball.blogspot.com
I voted yes, but...
with the Rangers’ luck he’ll wind up on the dl this year and never be the same again.
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