Sullivan on the Sheets situation
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 25, 2009 1:42 PM CST
135 comments
T.R. Sullivan has an article up about the Rangers' interest in Ben Sheets...
Basically, the Rangers (and just about every other team) are concerned about his flexor tendon, but the Rangers will expand the budget to bring him here if they can get him on a one year deal.
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please expound.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
The Wrestler
by Longhorn on Jan 25, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll let Z...
speak for himself, but my reaction was the same thing. 1 year of Sheets does very little for me. I don’t believe he alone makes the Rangers a contender in ’09. 1 year with a team option would be ok, but I would perfer the Rangers sign him to a 2 year deal with a team option for a 3rd year and that article basically says that is not something the Rangers are willing to do.
I just don’t understand this. There has to be more to his current health situation than we are hearing. This just makes little sense. A 2 or 3 deal at the $ being discussed for this guy is worth the risk given his talent. His arm has to be more of a concern than we think it is.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Jan 25, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts exactly
My whole love for bringing him here is hinged on him being at the top of the staff while the young studs work their way in. Obviously, Feliz and Holland won’t come in and each win 20 games in their rookie year.
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by t ball on Jan 25, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they won't?
facetious reply aside, Harrison almost won 10 games with pretty bad peripheral numbers on the whole…although he improved…beating some very good teams. A full season of that with continued offensive support, a more reliable bullpen and improvement in his K-to-BB stats, and I think he could’ve approached 20 wins. And Feliz and Holland have more ability than Mr. Harrison. Hey, I’m back on my optimistic outlook…
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jan 25, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Harrison had some unreal run support
While I like what I saw from harison to point to his W/L and suggest other young guys will come in and have similar success isn’t right.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jan 25, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is...
I didn’t mean to say it will happen, or it should happen, just that it COULD happen. Anything is possible. But it’s certainly not likely that one of those guys hits 20 wins in any season in the majors, and especially that both do it, and in the 2010 season.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jan 25, 2009 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, a tendon tear is really bad news. It's basically a time bomb.
A summary on tendon tears from an article espousing a new rehabilitation technique:
Tendon injuries are among the most painful of injuries. They can start out very minor, but without medical treatment, can escalate to levels of immobility. Tendons connect muscle to bone, and allow the muscle and bone to work together for a maximum range of motion. When the tendon is strained or torn, that range of motion is lessened severely because the body tries to repair the injury by producing scar tissue. Then, as Levon Nazarian, M.D., from Thomas Jefferson University, explains, “A vicious cycle occurs such that the tendon becomes irregular, scarred, calcified, and often partially torn.” The scar tissue is inflexible and causes the patient sharp pain during movement of the affected area. In the past, the only treatments for partial tendon tears were methods like physical therapy or surgery. These methods are not effective for all cases, and surgery is only applicable for large tears. This new procedure uses a needle and ultrasound technology to repair partial tears.
I don’t understand the one-year contract idea from the Rangers perspective, unless they really believe they’ll be lucky to get a year out of him. That makes more sense from Sheets’ perspective, so maybe what the article is meaning to say is that the Rangers are amenable to a one-year contract.
If they took a $5M shot at Jennings, it’s obvious Sheets is worth a gamble at $10M. The Rangers are in the situation that they need someone to elevate the team to contender level. It’s a budget risk for the Rangers but the downside risk of team performance is no different than if they hadn’t signed him. A team in contention may be less willing to deal with the risk of having to bring up a young guy. The Rangers, though, have very few guys who could be anything like Sheets over the next 2-3 years. In fact, it would be crazy good development for either of Holland or Feliz to have a year that was as good as one of Sheet’s down years.
Even with the tendon tear, I’m still thinking the delay is more from the Sheets camp than the Rangers as they wait till the very end to find out that he doesn’t have a multi-year option.
JD: Adamant about 78 wins in 2009. Go Rangers!
by rooster on Jan 25, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think either side is in a great hurry
The Rangers can wait hoping his price will solidify at their level, and Sheets can wait to see how the NY teams’ situations play out.
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by t ball on Jan 25, 2009 11:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Double Ugh
Why would a pitcher choose the Rangers over any other team offering him a 1 year deal?
by hiafex on Jan 25, 2009 1:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Very very good point.
FOR MANLY LOVE BE HERE MARCH 25TH AT 2:15 AM SHARP
by Agreen07 on Jan 25, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because
he may not have any other options. The Mets prefer Perez and the Yankees seem to want to bring Pettite in for the first year in the new stadium. Milwaukee has even less payroll room than the Rangers.
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by t ball on Jan 25, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's probably my Ranger fandom that is causing me trouble with this
But I have a mental block against why a team wouldn’t want to take a risk on a 1 year deal for a pitcher of Sheets caliber.
by hiafex on Jan 25, 2009 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
one day when you've got nothing to do
try and make a convincing argument for why The Cubs(insert any other team here) wouldn’t be interested in signing Sheets. Then read what you have typed, realize its insanity, delete, and go back to being a fencepost.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 25, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Name the other teams
in on Sheets. NYY, NYM, TX, maybe MIL as a long shot. That’s it right now. Now that the Cubs have an owner they might resume trying to get Peavy in trade, but they’re not likely to add payroll for an injury risk like Sheets. Teams trying to win now don’t count on such an injury risk unless it’s just a depth move like Boston has done this winter.
You’d have to improve a lot to be a fencepost.
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by t ball on Jan 25, 2009 11:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
NYY and NYM
aren’t trying to win now? I bet that is news to them. I would think ANY team would have an interest in Sheets at $9mill/. The fact that only 3 teams do tells me that the price is still a little high, which lends creedence to the idea that Sheets giving you 140+ inning this year is a long shot.
What is your problem exactly? This whole argument boils down to the fact that I think he is more injured than you do. And I am using the interest(or lack thereof) from other teams to help substantiate my belief. What seems like an innocent opinion on my part, and one that is actually formed using reported facts, seems to have perturbed you and others beyond what would seem reasonable….
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
God you're an ass.
Where did I say NYY and NYM weren’t trying to win now? I didn’t. I said that because they ARE they are not likely to add another pitcher who is such an injury risk. I’m saying Sheets IS IS IS an injury risk. The Yankees already have some injury risk in Chamberlain and Burnett. Pettite and Hughes are safer for them. The Mets are a bit worried about Maine, and obviously prefer Perez to Sheets.
I have said NOTHING that contradicts your point that Sheets might be too big an injury risk. It is PAINFULLY OBVIOUS to everyone that is why he is still on the market. And it is why I posted above that he might not have other options right now. As I have been saying MULTIPLE TIMES in MULTIPLE POSTS here over the last several days, everything hinges on how much the Rangers believe he can stay healthy. It’s a very risky signing, but I feel the Rangers are in a better position to take that risk than teams who aren’t in rebuild mode.
Do you even know how to read? Why do you insist on arguing a point when everyone here agrees that Sheets is an injury risk? You haven’t figured out some mystery that no one understands. You’ve just taken the most asinine tone in discussing it. It’s like everyone is saying “water is wet” and you’re screaming “No, you idiots! Water is NOT dry!”
Congrats on making a fencepost look intelligent yet again.
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by t ball on Jan 26, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you have stated
that you would sign Sheets for 2/19. I disagree vehemently with that idea. Everyone knows he’s injured, duh. Its just that some people are more interested in pissing away 20 million dollars……
Summed up: you want to sign him at the current rumored #‘s, I don’t.
t-ball quote," Sheets would be the best starter the Rangers have had in a dozen years or more. Yes, you sign him at 15% of the payroll."
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Something definitely must be wrong
with Sheets if nobody else wants him and he’s wanting to come to Texas to build his value on a one-year deal.
Thinking out loud, what if you gave him a one year $ 3 million deal with $ 1 million bonuses for every 10 IP’s after 100 IPs? Club option for the next year with a $ 5 million base and the same parameters. Club option for the 3rd year of the deal at a guaranteed $ 13 million.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
youre first paragraph
sums up what I stated over the weekend. Somehow a firestorm broke out over the opinion…
Sheets will ultimately sign for what the market determines he is worth. Something heavily incentive laden as you have suggested would peak my interest in Sheets. Guaranteed money for a guy destined to spend more time at the offices of Dr. James Andrews than a mound, or “hump”, in Arlington, no thank you……
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There is no firestorm.
It’s really just you with your personal tempest in a teapot.
2 years and $20 million for that caliber pitcher is a bargain and worth the risk. It’s not pissing away money. I’d MUCH rather take that kind of risk, for yes, a pitcher who would be the best arm on the Rangers staff in at least a dozen years, than a smaller amount of money for a mediocre talent.
Josey’s got the right idea above, though I have to think it would take a bit more guaranteed money to get it done. Maybe $5 M base with incentives. If he makes the incentives he would be worth it easily. That’s what you don’t seem to understand.
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by t ball on Jan 26, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the question I can't
seem to get you to answer is if Sheets is the bargain you suggest, and worth the risk as you also state, why has no one pulled the trigger?
The risk/reward has not found its equilibrium. If he end up signing for 2yr/$14mill wouldn’t have been pissing away $6 million dollars to have signed at your agreeable terms.
I’m just saying he’s not worth what you say he is. And you’re right, I’m certainly not smart, that’s why I’m basing my opinion on the consensus of EVERY ML GM.
t-ball vs. every gm + red shoe, you lose…..
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you were in Sheets position which would you take
A contract that guarantees you 8-10 million or one that only guarantees you 5 million but gives you a chance to get 12+ million or so? Of all the people Sheets knows his body better than anyone. He knows how he will hold up. While yes all us armchair GMs think we could put together an incentive laden deal and it would work its a good possibility that Sheets will leave money on the table to get the guaranteed money knowing his own personal injury history.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jan 26, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If
that deal with guaranteed money is available. Right now there are no teams rumored to have that much interest in him, however.
If a team signs him to that kind of deal and the Rangers don’t get him, I’m fine with that. I want to hedge against the risk with an incentive based deal. If he gets more elsewhere, so be it.
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by t ball on Jan 26, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hah. Ok.
Good luck convincing him to pitch in Texas on a one year deal to improve his stock.
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
by sprite on Jan 25, 2009 1:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I hate to be negative
but this is typical Rangers of late. They will make excuse after excuse until someone signs him. Than we will hear the typical that wasn’t in our budget for that kind of risk etc. etc. etc.
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2009 1:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
starting to see it that way as well
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
by ab03 on Jan 25, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
examples?
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
The Wrestler
by Longhorn on Jan 25, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to be too pessimistic
but I agree with you. I’ve been gung-ho on signing him even when it was at a higher wage as was reported towards the beginning of FA. Even though I’ve been gung-ho about the signing, I’ve just never had a good feeling about it. Now, as January nears an end, I can just see the press release of “Sheets was offered a competitive deal, but the just made a better offer” already. With all of the pieces in place that SHOULD garner his signing, I just have a bad feeling of it happening.
I don’t know whose fault it will be if/when he signs elsewhere, but I cannot believe JD, given carte blanche, wouldn’t have already signed him.
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Jan 25, 2009 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You still cannot forget all the momentum
this story had from the Star-Telegram yesterday. I still think (perhaps naively) this is going to happen.
I don’t think this has been announced because the Rangers are waiting for the weekend news cycle to end. They want this out on Monday.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe so
But even if it comes out on Monday, it seems as if this signing took a month too long. I know negotiations don’t progress to the speed that fans would like, but this just seems more drawn out than necessary.
Saying that, the signing no matter when it is announced, will be met with great rejoicing on my part. especially after the downer that is the Hurley news
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Jan 25, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Sheets does sign, it really messes
with how I think this team will do in 2009.
Right now they definitively suck and I’m going to be surprised if they win more than 72 games (official prediction from me will come sometime during spring training).
Plug Sheets into the rotation and I have to look at this from many less than definitive angles.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wanna Put Money on That
I know you wont since youre all talk….
Im talking about your win total btw
by Horns130 on Jan 25, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No internet bets for me, Horn.
I also need to see the final roster in spring training before throwing out a number.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As I Said
Everyone here knows youre full of shit
by Horns130 on Jan 25, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually
enjoy the musings of Josey. He takes a lot of heat because his glasses aren’t rose colored…….
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He takes a lot of heat
because he is an argumentative ass like you.
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by t ball on Jan 26, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You could say I'm argumentative
or you could also say I’m not afraid to differ from the group and voice an opinion that might not be so popular with the masses.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is anyone surprised by this post?
Red shoe enjoys Josey’s posts? There’s the shocker of the century.
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
by WestTxAg06 on Jan 26, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Some fans want to sit with Linus in the baseball equivalent
of a pumpkin patch listening to him expound about The Great Pumpkin while a few others aren’t afraid of the truth and really want to know what’s happening.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The problem is
you confuse your opinion for some higher truth that you must ram down the throats of the unwashed masses. I really don’t have a problem with you disagreeing on some things, or even hating Jon Daniels. It’s your stance that everyone who disagrees with you is somehow less intelligent for doing so that makes you a pompous ass. It should not surprise you that others respond in kind. When you’ve posted more civilly the past week, you’ve been responded to more civilly.
You have an opinion, you do not own the “Truth.”
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by t ball on Jan 26, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he's actually a lot like
wufdog over at NMLR, except with worse credentials and even dumber opinions.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Jan 26, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gdawg,
Aren’t you the person who recently said that Matt Harrison is a “great pitcher”?
Very sophisticated and unbiased take I must say.
And I’m nothing like the management shill known as wufdog.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where did I say he was a great pitcher right now?
I believe I’ve said many times how I think he’s got some very good stuff, how I was very impressed with how he improved last year in the Majors after struggling at first, and I’ve said that I think he will become a very good (maybe even great) pitcher that should definitely start next year in the ML rotation. I don’t believe I’ve ever once said he is a great pitcher right now. But who knows, maybe I did say it at one point. Care to link me to where I said it? After all, I know you hate it when people misquote you.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Jan 26, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I never said or intimated that people who disagree
with me are less intelligent unless they say something as stupid as “Matt Harrison is a great pitcher.”
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Collectively
though, according to you we’re all magpies and sheep. Maybe, just maybe, if everyone thinks you’re an ass, it’s not everyone else that is wrong. Maybe it’s you. Whatever, you’re not going to change, I’ll go back to ignoring.
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by t ball on Jan 26, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
t ball,
You’ll be back.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Quite the analogy.
...Snoop Doggy-Dogg... Ya need to get yourself a jobby-job.
by oc on Jan 26, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now the other side to that
Obviously his injury is a huge red flag to not only the Rangers but all other clubs or else he would have signed by now. So if the rangers did what you and plenty of other fans want and money whip him and he goes out and in spring training or in his first start in April gets hurt and misses the rest of the year all we would hear is how the Rangers never go after durable pitchers and only settle on guys who always get hurt.
Also it may not be the Rangers fault Sheets has waited so long to sign. You know there are two sides to a negotiation. Like Adam has theorized maybe Sheets is waiting to see if someone blinks at the last second and ups their offer. He knows he can get say 8 mil for a 1 one 2 year deal. He could have got that in November, December, now or next month. But if he waits maybe some team will have an Eric Hurley and it be one of their slotted in starters and they decide to up their offer to 12 mil to sign Sheets.
Until the ink is dry on the contract of whoever he signs with we don’t know what is going on. And really if he signs people will still bitch about something. Why’d it take so long, etc, etc, etc.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jan 25, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not here they won't.
At least, not until his first injury…
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 25, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A one year deal
doesn’t make any fucking sense. Why roll the dice/assume the risks, unless you would have him in the pitching starved ’10 market too?
’11 will have much more FA pitching. Use this shared risk/reward situation to bridge the gap to ’11, and the young guys growing up.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Jan 25, 2009 1:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
maybe
if we wait long enough, Sheets will pitch here for free. That should make our owner Larry Liverpool very happy.
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jan 25, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
HICKS!
This has his fingerprints all over it! One year makes no sense-say he does get hurt and has surgery on your dime, then leaves after the season. Some other team gets the benefit of a surgically-repaired Sheets, not you. Like getting your girl implants, then getting dumped and a new guy gets to enjoy them.
Ryan is high on him, Maddux too-Larry Liverpool(sorry, had to borrow it!) is gonna drag it out until someone else signs him, which is what he wants, anyway.
"Who died and made you King?"
by randyd on Jan 25, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he’ll sign a contract for just April.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 25, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
With incentives pushing the deal through June.
Give me Sheets or give me Offseason Blues Part III.
by Chase Irwin on Jan 25, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
This “one year deal” BS lowers my optimism levels quite a bit.
That Gold Glove for Young was the worst thing that could have happened to Texas - now the guy really believes he's good at short. - Keith Law
by lonestarJon on Jan 25, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One year deal
If thats all he will accept maybe thats all you need. Signing him to that will for one get him to help out our 2009 ballclub. It also gives us 6 months of exclusive negotiating time to work out that multi year deal. And then if he does leave we would get a draft pick out of it.
By all means I want a 2 or 3 year deal for this guy but if all he will take is a one year deal I say go for it.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jan 25, 2009 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
contract
one year with an option is about right. He would make a nice bridge to Michael Main in 2011.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
by RangerMad on Jan 25, 2009 1:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Arg
A one year deal in Arlington? I don’t even think the Sham Wow guy could sell that…
by Martijn1309 on Jan 25, 2009 1:57 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
Well, it's made in Germany
and you know the Germans always make good stuff.
Get off my lawn.
by DJCahill on Jan 25, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I will never have another car
that is not a Mercedes.
Sheets or bust
by boomer1 on Jan 25, 2009 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I will +1 that.
I’ve had all kinda crazy sports/luxo cars….the 25 year olde Merc I have now, classic.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Jan 25, 2009 11:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep agreed
I bought mine in 2005. I’ve had a lot of different cars and trucks also.
Sheets or bust
by boomer1 on Jan 26, 2009 8:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Merecdes?
I’d like to get a look at your contract…….
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that you Gordo? :)
Sheets or bust
by boomer1 on Jan 26, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've never understood...
…why Vince needs the headset.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 25, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm assuming...
…that if you call right now (because they can’t do this all day), Vince will answer you on his headset.
by cstorm15 on Jan 25, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For the huge audience's he's Sham Wowing
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 25, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For all three callers who wants what he sells....
Is it Spring Training Yet?
by Smoak Some on Jan 25, 2009 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand why he needs the headset in the house.
“You’re going to love my nuts.”
Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."
by LBBRangerFan on Jan 26, 2009 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brian Stewart
is calling…….. He wants his fake headset back.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
3 weeks from pitchers reporting to ST
And nothing is likely to happy any time soon….
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Jan 25, 2009 1:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So I'm guessing
maybe this lowers the 72% yes LSB consensus, just a bit?
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
by sprite on Jan 25, 2009 2:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if the $ 4.5 million signing of JJennings
has Hicks scared away from Sheets?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
But Jennings isn’t even half the pitcher Sheets is.
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
by sprite on Jan 25, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely agreed about the
abilities of Sheets & Jennings.
Houston went something like 3-15 in the games he started in 2007.
Thinking Jennings was going to be much better in 2008 wasn’t very smart. Paying him $ 4.5 million when you have a small market payroll was REALLY dumb and I would bet this is scaring Hicks away from authorizing more than a one year deal.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
x
Thinking Jennings was going to be much better in 2008 wasn’t very smart.
Why?
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 25, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd venture that most pitchers whose teams
go 3-15 in games they start in don’t show massive improvement in the next year. Do you know of any?
This is exacerbated when the pitcher moves to a vastly better league for hitters, pitches in a park where offense is off the charts, for a team with the worst defense in MLB and on top of everything else, his elbow is fried.
Sounds like a recipe for failure to me and I don’t think I would give that pitcher $ 4.5 million when I have a small market payroll.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you expected massive improvement
from Jennings last year?
I thought he was going to suck for all the reasons mentioned above and I was hardly surprised that Jennings was as terrible as advertised and that the Rangers went 0-6 in his starts.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
JJennings
While I’ll agree that the salary offered him was a little high, I favored signing him as a reclamation project. But again, you have pounded upon this (and Broussard’s and Shelton’s and Lofton’s and Gagne’s and every other project JD’s brought in) ad nauseum. Reclamation projects tend to never work out, but when they do (C.Carpenter, Ludwick, Gagne to name a few) you’ve got your return for the busts in spades. And as long as these projects do not consist of too many 40 spots, I never see a reason to NOT try one or two a year.
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Jan 25, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gagne was signed for what, $ 8 million?
He was here for 2/3 of the season so the Rangers probably paid him $ 5-6 million (estimated) which is a helluva lot for a closer with health problems on a shitty team with a low payroll.
It worked out for the Rangers only because Gagne pitched well in that 2.5 month window of 2007 suckitude and JD was able to flip him at the perfect time. Perfect, because Gagne was beyond awful in Boston.
If the Rangers would have held on to Gagne in August & September that free agent signing would be looked upon as a very expensive, a waste of limited resources and ultimately, failed. That particular hand was played correctly but I don’t think the trade in July was his intial goal when signing Gagne. I believe he actually thought Gagne could be an effective closer for a good team all season.
JD gets a lot of love for that trade but Gabbard’s a joke, Murphy is a 4th OFer and I don’t think Beltre will ever have the plate discipline to be a usable player.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Since you hate JD
I can see how you’d not “think” JD had any thought of flipping him when he went after Gagne. As we have seen JD flipping players is something he definitely thinks about. Remember when he was toying around with trading for Ibanez JUST for the Class A FA compensation he’d get back come FA? The guy isn’t as short-sighted as you see him.
And you’re right…if Gagne had fallen and stubbed his big toe and couldn’t pitch those few weeks in July the signing would’ve come back as a big ol’ Meh. But it didn’t and he won on that deal no matter what you think Murphy/Gabbar/Beltre are or can be (which by the way I think your view of what we got back is horribly underappreciative). He lost on the Otsuka flipping because of holding onto him a bit long. These are gambles, so you win some and you lose some.
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Jan 25, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hypo-Luxa, I think JD believed this team
was going to contend in 2007. So did a lot of people.
Otherwise why trade a prized lefthander you deem a year away from being able to start for a pitcher (BMac) you believe is ready to step into your rotation?
If you truly are rebuilding, why give an old fart like Sosa that many ab’s?
They talked about contending for the division before the season and thought it was going to happen.
Give credit to JD for rebounding on the Gagne signing because that could have become ugly and even more credit will be due if Beltre really can play in The Show.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2009 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Re; gagne
Even if Gagne wasn’t dealt away at the deadline, and continued to pitch the way he did prior to the deadline he would’ve earned his keep. That $8 mill was a bit much, but he earned his keep none the less. Not only did he pitch well, but he mentored CJ and who knows who else in the Pen. Save any snarky CJ-as-a-closer comments you might have saved up because that experiment isn’t over and done with and even if it is, having a dominant CJ in the 7th or 8th inning is as valuable, in my eyes.
You bring up JD and 2007 and I will let someone else go down that rabbit hole because I’ve done it more than once and will not get drawn into that pointless debate again.
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Jan 25, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For the record, I like CJ
and think he is capable of being a starter, late inning reliever and / or closer.
He was hurt last year. I love hearing him on XM and wish we could still read his thoughts in here.
Per Gagne, we don’t know what he would have done those last two months of 2007 in Texas but he was beyond terrible in Boston.
$ 8 million for his entire body of work in 2007 was excessive.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Excessive?
Maybe. A waste? Never. Throw out his mentoring and playing performance but the dude brought in some excitement as well. Who knows how that excitement translated into money (butts in seats JUST for the Gagne experience, merchandise), and who knows if that made up for the ‘excessive’ part of his signing. What I do know is that reclamation project worked out pretty damn well.
So in summation, JJennings didn’t work out. Gagne did. You win some you lose some. The frustration and allure of The Great Game
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Jan 25, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Gagne move gets an
asterisk from me.
Nice usage of “Great Game.” It is sure to piss off some of the magpies.
:)
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Full disclosure
It was used as a subtle shot at your over-using of the phrase.
And to further that, not sure what your use of magpie is, but I’m pretty sure whatever it is, I fall under it.
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Jan 25, 2009 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I figured as much per
the “Great Game” because I’m not much into the theory of coincidence.
“Magpie” = Galloway’s term for JD’s supporters in the DFW media. Me likey.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So since AJM and Newberg probably fall within yours and Galloway’s magpie classification I’ll continue to not give it much credence.
You’re actually being pretty civil and not overly conforntational which is the Good Josey. Just wish the Good Josey would show up more than the Bad Josey does.
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Jan 25, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
With very rare exceptions
I’m only confrontational with people who have dropped their gloves in front of me on multiple occasions.
I’m usually very respectful, dare I say charming with people who are respectful towards me although it’s possible we may disagree about something related to the always Great Game.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow,
do you sell the girls that bunch of bs too?
Pray tell, why has your personna been banned from multiple forums?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Jan 25, 2009 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good question, Rodney -
thanks for asking.
Jamey said Josey Wales (paraphrasing) “broke no rule and crossed no bright line” but intimated my presence tended to bring out the worst in several posters and he wanted to change the tone of the place.
I wouldn’t accept the company line, pointed out reasons why and happened to be one of the more accurate voices in that place…which along with the continued Ranger ineptitude really pissed people off.
You’re a great example of this – sending me a pm wanting to meet because you got your widdle Ranger baseball feelings hurt. I mean, seriously, what the hell?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure Jamey loved having you on his site
just like I’m sure Adam loves having you here right now.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Jan 26, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
actually
AJM finds Josey to be quite entertaining
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Another Example:
We traded for Carlos Lee for his class A FA compensation status.
by cstorm15 on Jan 25, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Nellie
What is funny is that trade could turn out to be a friggin’ coup if Nellie is indeed living up to his promise and performs in 2009 like he did the latter part of 2008.
Mix in the draft pick compensation and we could be seeing that trade as a big Win 10 years after the deal was done.
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Jan 25, 2009 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I did
He’d been a good pitcher prior to 2007. He was hurt in 2007. I figured he’d be healthy in 2008 and pitch better.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 25, 2009 5:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It couldn't have anytingto do with the miss diagnosis of a flexor tendon injury?
The weird thing with Jennings is that somehow after surgery the same exact problem occurred. It is either a bio-mechanical issue, poor rehab or just horrible luck
by laxtonto on Jan 25, 2009 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It would change my vote to no...
I can’t see him coming to Arlington on a 1 year deal.
If all he’s going to get is a one year deal he will stay in the NL to build up his value or sign with a WS contender.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Jan 25, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His medicals must suck
The only reason not to give a second year is because you think he’ll have surgery this year, making his 2010 value less than his 2009 value.
Either that, or we’re just really cheap…
by cstorm15 on Jan 25, 2009 2:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
As much as his potential is loved
how come nobody else has made him an offer?
This is also the very last place on earth a pitcher would want to come to enhance his value.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 25, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well if he has to rehab in 2009...
…he might as well rehab close to home, just for convenience.
by cstorm15 on Jan 25, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"his medicals must suck"
it’s probably why he’s still a FA.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
The Wrestler
by Longhorn on Jan 25, 2009 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I pick option B
"Who died and made you King?"
by randyd on Jan 25, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not much proof of that.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
The Wrestler
by Longhorn on Jan 25, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever
First, TR is a sounding board for what JD et al want out there, not necessarily what the situation actually is.
In this case, the Rangers don’t want the public expecting a signing, as that would box them into a bad negotiating position. This lowers expectations by both the public and Sheets camp, making a 2 year deal more possible.
Also, the ideal deal for the Rangers is a 1 year deal with a whole lot of vesting options. Give him 1 year / $8 million and every 50 innings up it by $1 million. As long as there are provisions for a (even vesting) team option for 2010 and hopefully 2011, I don’t care if the base contract is only one year. I imagine that is what is being negotiated. Not a vanilla one year contract.
The great thing about Sheets is that you know he’ll be good if he is pitching. The only thing teams can really have vest in contracts is playing time (you can’t vest on performance), but that is ideal in Sheets’s case.
by JBImaknee on Jan 25, 2009 2:11 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
+1
Give me Sheets or give me Offseason Blues Part III.
by Chase Irwin on Jan 25, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's a stupid rule
no vesting in performance. A team can control your playing stats just as easily as your peforming stats. Hopefully with the proliferation of team independent counting stats, teams can start putting clauses like that into a contract. seems like it would be beneficial to everybody involved (once players realize that games finished is just as manipulable as saves)
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
by ab03 on Jan 25, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Some other Team,
probably will offer him a better deal then that, more Ranger PR hype and another non-deal begins to evolve. But they tried, says the pr hype(Sullivan).
by SanDiegoKev on Jan 25, 2009 2:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hicks doesn't understand
that this town is full of front-runners. He has a chance to make the Rangers more relevant on the sports scene than ever before, given the woes of the other organizations, maybe even pull off some of their media support and their fans.
He said a few years ago that payroll would go up when the attendance went up. He has it backwards-if the team performs better, attendance will rise. He just doesn’t get it!
"Who died and made you King?"
by randyd on Jan 25, 2009 2:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe........
I wake up tomorrow morning and go to work. Sometime during the day I logon to LSB and my eyes dart back and forth reading the miracle words I been wanting to see for so long. I leap from my chair and jump around my office like I have no care in the world…my co-workers think I’m crazy, contemplate calling a doctor by I dont care!!! I have seen the light at the end of the tunnel…
….Months later the Rangers are fighting for a wild card spot at the end of August behind an All Star pitcher having a huge year and Hamilton and Beast Davis and even David Murphy are having incredible years at the plate….
….The next year hopes are high. No playoff berth in 2009 buts it’s good…Neftali Feliz, Julio Borbon and even Justin Smoak are on the opening day roster. Derek Holland joins a bit later. The Rangers fight for a division title….
…2011, behind their ace pitcher signed in 2009 and the Cy Young prowess of Feliz the Texas Rangers win their first Pennant. Hamilton is the AL MVP as the Ranger take the Dodgers to game 6 of the World Series….
…It was a magical ride for Texas Rangers fans. All because JD and Tom Hicks finally decided to sign a pitcher who could lift this team out of the doldrums and lead them to glory…yes, Ladies and Gents…..
…Charlie Hough came out of retirement.
Defending Big D: A Dallas Stars blog on SBN: easy to use, free to join.
by Brandon Worley on Jan 25, 2009 2:37 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
One Small Thing
We have a better chance to win the division than to win the wild card…just nitpicking….
by Horns130 on Jan 25, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is not a good sign....
This sounds like another case of the Rangers being cheap….showing interest enough that when Sheets signs with someone else they can say “we tried”.
I now fully expect Sheets to sign with a National league team on a 1 year deal.
by death of the cool on Jan 25, 2009 3:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Unless I've missed a post regarding this,
has no one considered that TR may only be filling a Gammons-esque role for the Rangers, trying to disseminate some misinformation? Or are we just convinced that the Rangers are not smart enough to deal with matters in this way?
by mcgee48c on Jan 25, 2009 4:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That is what JBI said
however, I just don’t remember that ever being the case before.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
by ab03 on Jan 25, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There is going to be
alot of crying if Sheets doesn’t sign with the Rangers.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
by RangerMad on Jan 25, 2009 4:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
No there won't.
...Snoop Doggy-Dogg... Ya need to get yourself a jobby-job.
by oc on Jan 25, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have mixed emotions about Sheets.
On the one hand, my sane, rational baseball mind says it is worth the investment and the risk to get Sheets here.
On the other, my insane, pessimistic Rangers baseball mind says that if we sign him, he’ll be out in ST and we’ll be lucky if he ever pitches a single inning in Arlington. This is the Rangers we are talking about, after all, and pitching karma loves nothing better than to torment us when it comes to good pitching. See, e.g., Cedeno, Jovanny; Hurley, Eric; Danks, John; Galaraga, Armando; and Volquez, Edinson.
by Athos on Jan 25, 2009 5:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Dittfurth
Colby Lewis
Ben Kozlowski
Ryan Dempster
Aaron Harang
by Brett Perryman on Jan 25, 2009 5:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You freakin' sell out!
;)
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Jan 25, 2009 7:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
how about one year with a big vesting option
I’m sure that Sheets would have his own issues with 1 plus an option, even a vesting option. Maybe the Rangers could keep him cheap for this year by backloading the contract but putting in a big contract buyout if they don’t exercise the option. Something like 6 million for 09, 12 million for ’10, with a 4-6 million dollar buyout. That way Sheets gets his 10 million for 09 if it just is one year, but if it is 2 years the Rangers get to backload it and of course the hefty buyout incents them to exercise the option.
by Dalman on Jan 25, 2009 8:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I am one of the biggest proponents of bringing Sheets in....
….but, if you only sign him to a one year deal, just screw it and move on. On soooo many levels it would be a terrible signing. THE ONLY way it could turn out “positive” is if he does get hurt….permanently….then you are not tied to him after 2009.
Other than that, it really doesn’t make much sense. IF you are going to take the risk at all, then locking him up is the only way to go. So many scenarios can spell ridiculous stupidity on the Rangers part, unless he is locked in for no less than 2-3 years.
1) He pitches well throughout the season, and shows no ill effects from any medical concerns. Result: You attempt to resign him, but he will cost you more to keep him.
2) He pitches well during the season, but has some decent stints missing starts/on the DL here and there. Result: He didn’t miss many starts and was effective, but if you want to keep him, you go through the exact same process. AND if the weak FA class next year alone doesn’t drive up his “value”, then at least the fact that he pitched well in Texas showed he still has some skills. In this scenario, he won’t be back.
Sheets can do more than win games for you. He can show some of these young studs how to be a pitcher..an effective pitcher. That kind of shit IS important and valuable. Yes, he could be trade bait later on, or several other positives could occur to help the team over the next few years.
The main one is he gives the fans, and more importantly, his teammates the chance to believe this team could be competitive. Some butts in the seats builds a little bit of revenue…..to be used for whatever. You are never getting another shot at getting this caliber pitcher again, for this cheap.
If the Rangers sign Sheets to a one year deal, or don’t sign them at all, then that will be a mistake. Sign him at a minimum of 2 years with an option for a third year. That is the minimum.
Ben Sheets isn’t of the same ilk of anybody else they have tried, or acted like they tried to sign in the past. If healthy, Sheets is the real deal. Everybody gets happy!
I miss 1989. I miss 1996. Please make me miss another season in 2008.
by Chaim Witz on Jan 26, 2009 3:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Good grief.
SHORTER!
...Snoop Doggy-Dogg... Ya need to get yourself a jobby-job.
by oc on Jan 26, 2009 3:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever...
I’m not sure what’s worse. Sifting through my long posts of nothingness or scrolling through multiple single lines of nothingness from the same person.
My doses may hurt a little more, but one does not have to take them as often. Its like a bullet straight to the head vs. death by a thousand cuts.
I miss 1989. I miss 1996. Please make me miss another season in 2008.
by Chaim Witz on Jan 26, 2009 3:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually want to read your post… but like most lengthy dialogues I fear there’s too much expository information being said.
...Snoop Doggy-Dogg... Ya need to get yourself a jobby-job.
by oc on Jan 26, 2009 3:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I did like your 'positive' spin.
...Snoop Doggy-Dogg... Ya need to get yourself a jobby-job.
by oc on Jan 26, 2009 3:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Long posts aren't a problem
if filled with good content.
I also don’t want Sheets on a one year deal. I want him, if healthy, to take ownership as a member and potential leader of the team.
I’m tired of mercenary players who won’t be here when/if this thing gets turned around.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 8:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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