Monday morning things
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 26, 2009 9:45 AM CST
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PrintNothing much to speak of out there today.
The Rangers watched Kris Benson throw. Ho-hum.
Jeff Wilson goes through the pros and cons of signing Ben Sheets.
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I'm starting
to feel sorry for all the Ranger fans who thought today would be like Christmas morning and they would be unwrapping Ben Sheets when they woke up.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 10:08 AM CST reply actions
I've already come to grips
that if the Rangers sign Ben Sheets, he will have an injury that keeps him from pitching at any time during his contract here, and if they don’t sign him, he will get a Cy Young somewhere else.
Get off my lawn.
Yep
You can tell who has followed the Rangers for awhile, and has watched the oft injured Rob Nen leave, only to pitch injury free, and the injury free BMac come here only tohave his arm fall off. CHP comes, overpaid, but looking like he’ll be at least a decent #2 starter, only to have him lose his mind and be below replacement level.
Hopefully Maddux can turn all that around, but the organization as a whole has decades of fail.
Get off my lawn.
I feel like Ralphie in Christmas Story
I want that Red Ryder B.B. Gun (Sheets) so bad, but it has one problem with it: it can shoot my eye out (or in Sheet’s case, blow out his shoulder). So on Christmas morning, I wake up, and I see that one gift, one that looks like it can be my B.B. gun. Yet, freakin Grandma sent me a Bunny Outfit that I got to wear…and the thing was forced upon me (which, right now, the Bunny outfit is Benson)….
Yeah, I get the gun later, which I think Sheets will be a Ranger by at least next week
Is it Spring Training Yet?
You forgot
he really does shoot himself in the eye…maybe not the best analogy.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Its more of
I want to stay in the present and think positive thoughts with Sheets
Is it Spring Training Yet?
Norm is supposed to drop some news on Ben Sheets.
Says he spoke with some people in the know, and that the medical reports are scary.
He might just be echoing what Sullivan said though.
...Snoop Doggy-Dogg... Ya need to get yourself a jobby-job.
Norm is a serious Ranger Homer
(got to get that big contribution from Tom Hicks for his charity every year) but he is fairly plugged into the inner-workings of the team meaning that higher-ups will tell him what they want the public to know.
I can’t dismiss the Star-Telegram articles from Saturday that seemed so cocksure that Sheets was coming to Texas but we also need to remember that the S-T has been really tough on the Rangers lately.
Would the Rangers purposely mislead the S-T? Kinda hard to believe they would become that petty because there is no upside to misleading your fans.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
Everyone got tired of her
batsh!t crazy antics and she went away. After she filed for divorce and the collective universe said “meh” that was about it.
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
She filed
In 2006 I think, then withdrew the petition. They have kids, so who knows what she does anymore.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Jan 26, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
Kris fucking Benson?
Jason Jennings?
Can we go sign Jon Garland already. He’d give you more innings than anyone currently in the rotation and would contend for the team lead in ERA, amongst the starters.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 10:31 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
No
No Jon Garland.
I’d rather have Jennings or Benson on a minor league deal then go get Garland.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 26, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
Is it
The money, the pick, or the performance?
by brettgardner on Jan 26, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
There is no pick
He a type B. The Angels would get a 2nd rounder but we wouldn’t lose anything.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I also don't want the Rangers to be the ones giving the Angels that supplemental pick
Let someone else do it.
I don’t want Garland here because he isn’t good and wants too much money.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Huh?
What difference does it make? The Angels are going to get that pick either way. It’s not actually coming from the Rangers or any other team, it’s a compensatory pick.
I don’t want to sign Garland, but this reasoning makes less than zero sense.
i guess it is possible that he thinks Garland won't sign with anyone
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Don't take that part too seriously
Its more that I just would hate seeing that supplemental pick turn into something and the Rangers signing Garland being responsible for that. That’s not the reason I don’t want to sign Garland. As I said in that post, I don’t want him because he isn’t good and he wants too much money (which is anything above the league minimum.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
We aren't talking about guys for the ML rotation
Both those guys would be on minor league contracts similar to Ponsons last year. If someone goes down with injury in the first month of the season instead of rushing Hunter or Holland or Feliz we bring up a vet and let the kids continue developing. Now that Hurley is down we need someone who is ML ready in OKC who we are at least somewhat confident in.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Jon Garland could
help this team win games, now and in the future. In what future year would he not be considered in the Ranger’s top 5, rotation wise. Millwood and Padilla seem to be heading towards the end of their Ranger terms, what would be wrong with Garland in this rotation for the next 4 years?
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
You mean if he’s just terrible like he was last year? Paying him good money to be terrible like that would be wrong in the same way that paying Chan Ho Park to be terrible was. It wouldn’t be as much money, but it would still be too much.
If he can be decent, yeah. But why would one be confident that he’s going to get appreciably better when moving from Anaheim to Arlington?
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
I think
Garland is better than the Ho. Plus the Ho averaged around 100 innings/yr while here. Every now and then you need bodies. I don’t see one pitcher in our rotation that I would feel good about pitching 200 innings next year(although if I had to I would put my money on Padilla).
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
If our farm system can't...
…crank out enough mediocre starting pitchers to make spending $12-14 million per year over 4 years on Jon Garland superfluous, then the rebuilding project is a failure.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 26, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
If both
Millwood and Padilla are gone by next year how do you see the 2010 starting rotation playing out. And by that I mean how many spots do you think would have to be filled by pitcher’s not currently in our system or currently on the roster.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
It's all about options, buddy.
The Rangers have one on Padz, and could alway exercise theirs on Millwood even if he doesn’t hit his IP threshold.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Yep
If we don’t sign Sheets, then one of those vets will be back next year at least. The one who pitches best this year. Along with BMac, Harrison, Feldman (a younger, cheaper Jon Garland), and Holland most likely
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
< scooootch > Aha, there's a seat for ya'.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Feliz will be knocking on the door too
I mean AA wasn’t really a challenge for him last year. If he makes progress it’s hard to believe that he will struggle a whole lot in AAA, and you know they’ll take a look at him this summer/fall.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah
I think Feliz will be held back just a little bit in 2010 to offset his service time. I think Holland sees some action in 2009 late in the year and thus to hold him back for that extra year would mean almost two months which i don’t think will happen. I think we don’t see Feliz until May 1st 2010.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I would be fine with that on Feliz
I just don’t know if they have the patience. Nolan did admit that he regretted rushing some guys to the majors this year at least. Even so, I think they view Holland as more of a midseason guy, and I just don’t know if they will be able to help themselves with Feliz. Maybe they can take a lesson from Volquez, but they usually don’t.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, that MLB TV interview Ryan did
was very candid, I thought. I quite enjoyed that, and I think NR got a bad rap around here from the outset, but has proved otherwise.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
I would venture that JD's
biggest proponent in the organization is Nolan Ryan.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
"the organization"
The only people involved in baseball operations who have any business even discussing Daniels’ performance are Nolan and Hicks, so yeah. But I mean someone under Daniels, like Thad Levine, I’m thinking he might be just a bit of a Daniels supporter.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
I would assume Thadwick
was right there and agreed / came up with the ideas that account for most of the front office dumb-assery we were privy to before Nolan came aboard which would make him a HUGE JD supporter.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Right
Which is why when you say that Nolan is his biggest supporter in the organization, you’re basically saying out of two people.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
the bad rep that Nolan had around here
was completely without reason, and it came from the most prominent of the community’s members.
"drawing walks is an overrated trait in my eyes."
"i do believe we could have 4 30 start pitchers in the rotation."
-- both these genius remarks brought to you by our resident guru, bigsteve
"Nolan's way"
Although their was no precedent.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
There is a certain laughable irony
to Nolan coming here because I was ecstatic when he was hired.
I thought the level of front office dumb-assery would end (most of it has) and that neither JD nor Washington would be long for Planet Ranger because their incompetence would be exposed.
The fact that Nolan has become their champion within the organization was a most bitter pill to swallow and it still simply astounds me.
Knowing that all those people in here who are JD’s biggest fans and couldn’t stand Nolan coming aboard now have to thank Nolan for JD still being here balances out the bitter pill I had to swallow.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
Nolan didn't have a bad rep
it was skepticism of the unknown. As we’ve heard and read more from him that skepticism has almost completely gone away.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
+1
I would describe myself as being more of a skeptic than anything else when Nolan was first brought in. To be given pretty much full control of the franchise when he had no real experience working in the front office was something I was concerned about. I don’t think most people were saying that he was going to destroy everything, but rather that was a common concern with any former superstar getting control of a team. Nolan’s done a great job of showing that he isn’t like those other superstars and can actually handle the job.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Given the surprising speed
with which they’ve been advancing guys, and putting Andrus in the lineup this spring (probably by late April anyway) it wouldn’t surprise me if both Holland and Feliz get looks this summer. They might be planning on having both of them in the rotation next April and letting them take some lumps and get acclimated this year as opposed to next.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
I have to definitely think they plan on having both in the rotation
come next April.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
Barring injury...
…or possibly a disasterous showing, I think it’s a certainty that Holland, Feliz, or both will be in Arlington at some point this summer.
by FuturePants on Jan 26, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
something will have gone very wrong
if both Holland and Feliz don’t make their ML debuts by some time in July.
"drawing walks is an overrated trait in my eyes."
"i do believe we could have 4 30 start pitchers in the rotation."
-- both these genius remarks brought to you by our resident guru, bigsteve
July?
I don’t think something will have gone very wrong. I think Holland should be just getting ready by then and feliz probably not ready, for a rotation spot at least. If you plan on bringing him up and putting him in the pen thats one thing.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Or Very Right...
In that we sign Sheets adn he, Millwood, Padilla, McCarthy and Harrison are all healthy and pitching well.
Something will have gone very, very right
if Feliz makes his ML debut by some time in July.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
My guess
Sheets
Millwood/Padilla
McCarthy or Feldman
Harrison
Feliz or Holland
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 26, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
minus
Sheets that is clearly all “in-house” options. You really think that gets it done in 2010? Not that Garland is the answer, but I hope we make a deal at some point before next year that brings in a a more sure-fire front end type guy if we truly hope to contend in 2010.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
If you actually have talent
what is wrong with in-house? I think you have to get used to differentiating what you think of as in-house Rangers pitching (crappy) and some of the high end talent that is coming into the picture.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
Having said that
I do think that they probably need one rotation addition to win in 2010. I don’t think, however, that that should be someone like Garland. A Garland doesn’t make that rotation work.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
If Holland & Feliz are actually ready in 2010
they’re still going to need a couple of veteran pitchers like Millwood Padilla to soak up 350 IPs +.
Rolling with nothing but kids (no matter how talented) would be foolish.
XM Radio reporting that Zach Greinke just signed four year deal with KC.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah tell that to TB
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
should we mimick TB
or Colo, or NYY, or Philadelphia? Many ways to skin this cat…
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind mimicking TB
would you?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
nope
but I also wouldn’t mind Millwood/Padilla/Garland being a part of the 2010 rotation.
Question what are the option prices on Millwood and Padilla?
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Millwood is 10 mil and padilla is 12 mil I believe
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
thats
interestin’. I say yes to both……. Another year of buffering as the young kids shake out who’s for real and then trade both of ’em at the deadline, unless of course we are chasing down a pennant.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know about those options being too good anymore
Maybe if they looked great next year, but looking at how the pitching market is shaping out this offseason, I think that 22 million could be better spent.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Kazmir is about to pitch for the
6th season in The Show.
Shields is in what his, 4th year?
Jackson (now in Detroit) started splashing around the big league pool in 2003.
Garza was in his 3rd year.
I’m talking about kids who haven’t pitched more than a year in The Show.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
OK
My point was they were a rotation full of kids at one point. And they grew into a WS-caliber rotation. We are ahead of their learning curve by having such a good offense. The TB teams of a few years ago had squat for offense. We have one so going with a rotation of young talented guys isn’t as bad as you may think.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I like this game
First, if we’re talking about going to the WS in 2010 like the Rays did in 2008, you should be looking at ML experience up to 2008, not 2009. Which means Kazmir would be in his 5th, Shields his 3rd, and Garza in his 2nd.
So looking at some potential candidates for the 2010 rotation
Feldman would be in his 6th season in 2010.
Harrison in his 3rd
B-Mac in his 5th
Hunter in his 3rd
Holland in his 2nd
Feliz in his 1st/2nd (I don’t think he pitches in the Majors this year, but its possible he gets some September playing time)
There seems to be a nice amount of Major League experience according to your criteria.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Not entirely accurate...
Yes, Kazmir has been in the for that long, however his first “season” was only 33.3 innings. I don’t think I’d call that a full season. He was actually pretty damned good in his first full season in the league. The problem was that he had very little support from the rest of the team.
now we
can trade for him without all the “only 2 controllable years” belly aching…..
I look forward to the Ron W. vs. Trey Hillman arguments heating up again this season….
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
It's early but I cannot
summarily dismiss the possibility that the Royals finish with a .500 record in 2009.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
flamethrowing.....
I still like Hillman better. and if it weren’t for Tom “cheap” Hicks Hillman would be our manager.
I think Hicks has struck gold with JD(I know you vehemently disagree) but I also believe the only reason he and Wash are hear is because they are the lowest paid people in their respective positions in all of baseball(yeah, that’s an unsubstantiated fact that I failed to research, but my hunch tells me it’s real close to being accurate.)
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
Why don't you do some research
on what the KC players thought of Hillman last season? If that team does not gel/and or get off to a good start, I think he will be canned. The players despised him, and had zero respect for him. And evidently, his behavior was a bit erratic also…
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
I like mgrs
who aren’t all that “liked” by their players. Now respected, that another issue.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, Ron Washington
seems to be very well liked by his players.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
now that
I think about it why wasn’t Wash the one to deliver the news to MY?
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
I know he was
in the room. I literally mean the one to deliver the news…..
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Supposedly
Washington was at the meeting but no more than a cigar store indian.
I highly doubt that Young respects Washington but he has said the he likes him.
I don’t believe that Young either likes or respects JD.
Upon further review, this was the sorta thing that should have been handled from the get-go by the true alpha-male in the organization, the Great Nolan Ryan.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Sure
If Holland & Feliz are actually ready in 2010
they’re still going to need a couple of veteran pitchers like Millwood Padilla to soak up 350 IPs +.
I don’t think anyone has said anything otherwise.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
agree
not to rehash the numerous Grienke threads, but someone of that ilk, with more controllable years……
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
I think it depends...
…on which Brandon McCarthy we have.
If we have the Brandon McCarthy it looked like we were getting when the trade occurred, that’s a solid rotation, and we can roll with that group.
If it is the brokedown McCarthy (in other words, if we have Feldman), then you’ve got a big hole at the #2 spot unless Harrison, Feliz or Holland really steps up big-time.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 26, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
Garland was pretty bad on the road
last year.
A very Matt Harrisonian 7-3 5.94 ERA on the road / .819 OPS against all batters.
I pass.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
Garland
Before the season and even until about midway through the season I was all for signing garland this offseason. If for nothing more than the security knowing the guy is going to go out and give you 200 innings each and every year. Thats something this Ranger club needed i felt. But then along came Scott Feldman. I believe he can give us similar production to Garland and be at a fraction of the cost.
As for your question, he probably wouldn’t help us win any more games next year than Feldman does and then he, like Feldman would be fighting to hang on to a roster spot with Holland , Feliz, Main and the likes showing up in coming years. Only difference is we would be paying him alot of money to fight for that rotation spot whereas we can pay Feldman league minimum to do the same thing.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
bigsteve,
Doncha think it would be prudent to plan on Feldman spending time on the DL/ pitching ineffectively because of the jump in his number of IPs last year?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Not really
He didn’t jump from being a starter and throwing 60 innings to being a starter and throwing 150 innings. he was a reliever prior to last year so all those studies about increase in innings aren’t really relevant. Its natural for a starter to throw more innings than relievers. Add in his seemingly fluid delivery and the fact he isn’t a flamethrower and i think his risk for injury associated with his innings last year to be very low.
I think Neftali Feliz has a higher chance of injury due to innings increase than Scott Feldman.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
it would be
hard for me to imagine that over a four year deal he wouldn’t be one of your top 5 arms(starters) in all 4 years. I think waaaaaaay too much stock is being put into Feliz, Holland, and Main. What if Feliz ends up being a closer, Holland a bullpen arm, and Main gets injured? I just doubt highly that all 3 become rotation regulars for the Rangers. 2/3 would be lucky. I’d put the odds at 1/3 becoming a dependable starter.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
I don't want to spend big money...
…and commit that money long term on a bleah starting pitcher.
Spending big money on mediocre players over a long period of time is stupid.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 26, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
I hope MY
isn’t reading this………..
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
didn't your
daddy ever tell you beggars can’t be choosers? Given the Rangers history on the mound I wish like hell Garland would have been here the last 4 years, to speak nothing of the next 4 years…..
The question is not, “Is Garland that good?”
The question is, “Is he better than what we have?”
I get your point, I just think he would be more than useful on the Rangers…..
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
I'm sure I'm wrong
in my assessment but I just don’t equate Chan Ho’s career with Garlands.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
you're right
Chan Ho was better than Garland before coming to Texas.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
you take the HO
then, I’ll take Garland
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Let's say the Rangers sign him to a 4 year deal
What do you think his ERA would likely be in each of the 4 years he’s here?
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 26, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
Adam,
You were big on “regression to the mean” for JJennings last year, why wouldn’t you feel that way about Garland in 2009?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Garland isn't coming off injury is he?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Garland wasn't hurt last year...
…as far as I know.
That being said, my argument isn’t that he was bad last year so we shouldn’t sign him. It is that he’s never been all that good, and signing a LAIE about to turn 30 to a 4 year deal is a poor use of resources.
Particularly for a team with a small-market budget.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 26, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
well I'm
no CHONE or ZiPS but I would guess right around 5.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
You think paying $10-14 million per year...
…for 4 years for a guy to put up a 5.00 ERA for the Rangers is a good use of resources?
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 26, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
lets see
what he actually signs for first. At 8-10 million, where do I sign? At 12-14mill, probably not.
If he averaged 200 innings and a 5 ERA that would make him the best Ranger pitcher of the last decade, No?
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
I love how you piss and moan...
about people on this site who want or think the Rangers could sign Sheets (myself included). Then you go and say the Rangers should go after Garland. Look at Garland’s #‘s last year and compare them to Sheets. Why the hell would anyone spend 8-10 mil a year on Garland. Even if he’s healthy his #’s would be worse in Arlington.
And only 1 of these pitchers has been linked to the Rangers. There is a shot that Sheets will be signed. The Rangers have already said they won’t spend $ on a guy like Garland, so as you would say, stop talking about it. It’s not happening.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
to
each his own…..
Where was the desire to sign Smoltz, or Mulder before that.
I don’t have an affinity for oft injured pitchers, sue me.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
ZiPS/Garland
10-13, 5.07 for Garland in 2009 with Texas, 5.11 over 2009-2012.
--
Dan Szymborski
dan@baseballprimer.com
by D.Szymborski on Jan 26, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
DS,
Do you have a guesstimate on IPs?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
A lot.
Projection systems aren’t good at (or designed) to project playing time, but you’d be hard-pressed to find many pitchers with a better long-term health record than Garland.
--
Dan Szymborski
dan@baseballprimer.com
by D.Szymborski on Jan 26, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
I still say
Garland is better. Do you disagree? The Ho got injured or he may have performed better here. It seems that ball he grooved to Ripken in the all-star game ended his career.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
Think about what you're arguing, though
whether the guy you want is better than CHoP…
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 6:42 PM CST up reply actions
No,
Garland wasn’t better than CHP before CHP joined the Rangers.
So far, Garland is better than CHP was with the Rangers.
However, I think Garland will be a mid 5’s ERA pitcher in Arlington with Texas’ Defense behind him, which isn’t worth what Garland is asking for.
Get off my lawn.
Garland
On a 4 year deal, he’s going to want $12-14 million per year.
I don’t want to pay him that. He’s not that good.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 26, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
You can't always get what you want..
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
I don't think hes asking that much
Not in this economy. I think thats what he would ask if the economy was like it was last winter but not now. I would think on a 4 year deal it would take 28-35 million for him.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Personally...
…my guess is he’ll take a 1 year deal and try again next offseason rather than take a 4-5 year deal at $7-9 million per.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 26, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
agents
should really start advising their clients that next year’s economy isn’t a safer bet than this year’s. People should take any sort of long term deal they can and run. Next year has a lot of potential to be worse and you’re a year older.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Don't you think, though,
That if Garland signs a 1 year deal and performs exactly the same as he did last season that he could still snag 7-9 on a multi-year deal?
Your point is well-taken, considering the possibility of injury or ineffectiveness, but it seems like the risk would be worth it for Garland—at the very worst, he’s stay the same, and he could possibly improve his stock.
by brettgardner on Jan 26, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know
Last year he made 12 million. if he got 7-9 this winter that would be a pretty big pay cut. To roll out again and do the same next year I find it hard to imagine he would get the same money again. it would probably drop to around 5 million.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
performs like he did in 2008 or 2007?
I don’t think he should take the chance of trying to perform the same as he did in 2007 simply because there is a good chance he won’t get 7-9M. So, it’s not the probability of one event is really low, but that both events coupled together is kind of low.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
he will not get 7-9M for pitching like he did in '08
at least, I don’t think so.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Welp
It finally happened. Sheets has officially been talked to death. Granted, this is the only thing to discuss, but I wish he’d sign somewhere already. He needs to since pitchers and catchers report in 16 days, 22 hours and 10 minutes.
I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.
Jennings vs Sheets
In my mind its a very different comparison. Jennings has never been the pitcher that Sheets is. The possible upside of Jennings was much less than the potential upside of Sheets. If we can actually get it done for 2 years 16 million + incentives then I would probably get it done today.
I know its easily said when its not my 16 million, but the potential upside is just insane. On the downside its finical only. If Sheets never throws a pitch here we are no worse off than we are today, and I’d say that the potential PR bonus of signing him is probably worth most of that contract. Imagine all the people who say that the Rangers don’t spend, won’t go get any good players, hard to keep up that argument after signing probably the #3 or 4 pitcher on a pretty strong market.
Pettitte
Close to a 1-year with the Yankees.
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/44101-yankees-in-serious-talks-with-pettitte
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jan 26, 2009 10:55 AM CST reply actions
That rotation is getting mighty crowded.
...Snoop Doggy-Dogg... Ya need to get yourself a jobby-job.
Hughes is great insurance
to have around if Burnett or Joba go down. They’re not dealing him unless they get something very juicy in return.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Can you imagine the shitstorm
If we were holding Holland back as “insurance” and signing a guy like Pettite
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
This year?
No storm, no shit. Holland isn’t ready. Ranger fans would probably be pretty excited if they signed Pettite, he pitches pretty well last year and is still at least an innings eater.
Hughes is coming off some health concerns and still has plenty of time, and a lot of Yankee fans will be gaga over Pettite making the move to the new digs. Pettite will be gone next year, and Hughes will certainly see at least some time in the rotation this year anyway.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
If we were holding back Holland
even next year because we had signed Sabathia, Burnett, and Pettite…id be fine with it ha
by Michael Cave on Jan 26, 2009 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
No not this year
But if in a couple years he had been touted as a top pitching prospect and had seen action in small doses over a couple years but we kept signing aging veterans and holding him back.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Huge difference
The Yankees have a good chance to win the world series. We don’t.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
If next year
the Rangers sign the equivalent of Sabathia, Burnett and Pettite I don’t think there would be a huge fan backlash over not having Holland in the rotation.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
I wasn't aware the answer was so obvious. Seems like it would be a good need-for-need swap.
...Snoop Doggy-Dogg... Ya need to get yourself a jobby-job.
I don't think it is so obvious.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
Do you really think that
Texas would turn down that deal? If it’s fair, why doesn’t NY do it? As you said, they have Kennedy and a full rotation now, and their need for catching is great, plus they like Salty.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
I really haven't a clue how Texas feels about Hughes.
I do have a hard time believing, if NY called right now and said that Hughes was on the table for Salty straight up, it would be a no doubt yes from us.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
Salty
apparently Hughes and Buchholz are quite a bit more valuable than Salty, and as prospects both those guys were ranked in BA’s top 5. But then a guy like Bowden apparently isn’t near enough for Salty, and I guess he is probably going to be ranked in BA’s 30-50 range(?). So, if we could ignore the teams for a moment, I’d like to know what type of SP prospect would be an appropriate 1 for 1 deal for Salty?
"drawing walks is an overrated trait in my eyes."
"i do believe we could have 4 30 start pitchers in the rotation."
-- both these genius remarks brought to you by our resident guru, bigsteve
I think that the Bowden part isn't really an accurate reflection
of what most people would consider a ready top 30 or so prospect. Bowden may rank in that range in one of the top 100s, but the opinion on him is so split and people here are so down on him that he’s just not a good example.
Would you trade Salty for another Holland? Holland will rank in the 30s in most top 100s, and I think I’d deal Salty for someone like him or Jhoulys Chacin or Wade Davis.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
thanks
So you’d peg his value at something like a 25-50 rated SP prospect?
Seems fair to me, but you have a much better handle on those things – that’s why I asked.
"drawing walks is an overrated trait in my eyes."
"i do believe we could have 4 30 start pitchers in the rotation."
-- both these genius remarks brought to you by our resident guru, bigsteve
I doubt it
by himself. Unless they decide midseason they want him and he’s gotten off to a great start. Kind of doubt it even then.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Yeah
More evidence could always change things. If Salty starts hitting like Brian McCann and playing average defense, we’ll hit the jackpot (either way). That’s why waiting isn’t that bad of an option.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
the problem with waiting
What happens to Salty’s trade value if he doesn’t look any better this season and Teagarden ends up getting 80% of the playing time next season?
At this point I think it is safe to say that his value could trend either way next year. If his value plummets and Bowden continues to look like a solid mid rotation starter, that would a horrible, and certainly possible, outcome.
"drawing walks is an overrated trait in my eyes."
"i do believe we could have 4 30 start pitchers in the rotation."
-- both these genius remarks brought to you by our resident guru, bigsteve
the problem with waiting
What happens to Bowden’s trade value if he doesn’t look any better this season?
/OCD SS
The risks go both ways, that’s what they are prospects…anything can happen to them.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
The only advantage to pitchers is that you can carry 12 of them. You only carry 2 catchers though.
Frankly, I don’t think the risk of Bowden not looking very good is much to consider if Texas doesn’t want him at all. It just means that a guy JD didn’t want got worse and proved him right.
"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
What if
you trade Salty for a Bowden type and keep Teagarden and Salty becomes a regular all star and Teagarden struggles to hit 230 and stay on the field with arm trouble? That is just about as likely as Saltalamacchia’s value tanking over the course of three months of next season. I don’t think that anyone really knows which of those two will become the better player if Saltalamacchia is allowed to keep catching regularly.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
I completely agree.
A strength could turn into a weakness very fast, if we dealt Salty’ and Max can’t stick.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
I feel
so out of the loop…..
"Being successful in life isn't about how smart you are or how hard you try, its how big of an ego you have." - Miles
random thought
I think it’s interesting that after complaining about pitching coaches all last year and then going out and getting a “stud” pitching coach, nobody seems to care. For instance, there haven’t been any comments like, “Staff ERA will likely go down now that Maddux is here.”
I don’t think pitching coaches have that much of an effect and you’d like to think that the board is smart enough to realize that – but this board did complain a ton about Connor. There’s some psychological lesson here – grass is always greener, we are an extremely pessimistic crew, we love complaining, etc.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
There were plenty of comments like that
They were all just right after he signed not here in the end of january.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
No
I think it’s more accurate to say that some pitching coaches help the entire staff, some can cause great damage, and most are in between — working well with a few guys and having blah results with other.
If all Maddux does here is not crew up mechanics that cause injuries (like it seems Connor may have) that’s a big plus.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
This is like pitching an idea for a sitcom: What happens when one of the more highly regarded coaches in the game moves in with one of the most dysfunctional pitching staffs in baseball?
Stay tuned.
...Snoop Doggy-Dogg... Ya need to get yourself a jobby-job.
The more I hear about Sheets the more surprised I am he didn't accept arb from the Brewers.
I’d still be okay with him on a two-year low base salary incentive laden deal, cause what’s the worst that could happen?
But dear god does he scare the shit out of me at this point.
If he was anywhere near healthy he’d’ve been snapped up eons ago.
I’m almost at the point where I’d be against giving him anything more guaranteed money-wise than what Brad Penny got.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
I hate Michael Young.
"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith
BREAKING NEWS:
According to Rick Knapp of the Detroit Tigers, former Rangers great Kenny Rogers is calling it quits.
...Snoop Doggy-Dogg... Ya need to get yourself a jobby-job.
where's the one day contract with the rangers?
he can’t retire mad at us…
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Oh just put me in my fucking place already.
...Snoop Doggy-Dogg... Ya need to get yourself a jobby-job.
It's too bad this happened.
He gave the Rangers a lot of good years.
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
The best part of that was the litigious pussy complaining about how the back injury he had suffered was debilitating and the emotional anguish brought about by the incident was absolutely crippling.
His whiny little vaggy ass sunded a lot like Face.
Actually it wouldn’t surprise if somewhere out there someone had a tape of Face watching intently and taking notes as that puss give his “Woe is me” interviews on the subject.
I mean, Kenny effed up and deserved to be punished, but be a fucking man, pussy.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
I hate Michael Young.
"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith
by thedirkatron on Jan 26, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
pluz wun.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
"Because he's the worst poster here I think."--Chase Irwin
"You might be the single worst Rangers fan on this board."--WyoRanger
by red shoe ranger on Jan 26, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
Per the camera man (Larry Rodriguez?)...
remember how he was taken from the ballpark on a stretcher? Yet moments after the incident (before he was taken out on the stretcher) he was shown on camera standing, giving a thumbs up sign and winking that he was okay.
What Rogers did was wrong but he didn’t hurt that guy at all. The way the DFW media acted (all parties at all levels, from Mike Doocey to Randy Galloway to Norm Hitzges to Deep Dish Danny Balis on The Hard Line) was one of the biggest charades and lowest moments I can ever remember.
Larry Rodriguez wanted a payday after Rogers went off on him and the DFW media helped him get it.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 26, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
More greatness from minorleagueball
Why Adam Dunn is great defensively. Stats don’t lie
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Ive got to admit
I was still thinking sheets might sign today. alas…
the preceding post was a great success.
Well...
if Pettitte signs with the Yanks the Rangers just need Perez to go back to the Mets and then it would be between the Rangers and Brewers imo, and it looks like the Brewers are trying to be tighter with their $ than the Rangers are right now.
I suppose another team could jump in, but right now Sheets’ options appear very limited.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I certainly thought today was a possibility
especially during the weekend.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 26, 2009 6:43 PM CST up reply actions
I'm thinking maybe sometime later in the week now.
I still think we end up signing him though, all this waiting is starting to get tiring though.
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
But that was just a dream
That was just a dream
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse,
Out of the corner of my eye.
I turned to look but it was gone.
I cannot put my finger on it now.
The child is grown, the dream is gone.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Jan 27, 2009 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
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