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The Rangers and the free agent market

There's a certain frustration that I feel, and that other Rangers fans appear to feel, over the lack of activity this offseason.  The idea of going into 2009 with our big offseason additions being Guillermo Moscoso, Beau Vaughan, and Derrick Turnbow is reminiscent of what happened after the 2004 season, when the Rangers built on a surprisingly succesful year by doing...nothing.

Part of the problem, such as it is, though, is that as far as the free agent market goes, there's not a ton of guys out there that match up well for the Rangers.  Looking at Jon Heyman's list of the top 20 free agents still out there, there's not a lot that gets the pulse racing.

Among positional players, the only thing the Rangers would seem to be in the market for is a third baseman, and maybe -- maybe -- a righty hitting DH (which presumes that a Hank Blalock trade could be made). 

On Heyman's list, there are 5 OF/DH types that are lefties, which doesn't help the Rangers (since, with Hamilton, Davis, and Murphy presumably playing regularly and hitting in the middle part of the lineup, you are already a bit lefty-heavy, even if Blalock is gone). 

The three guys in the OF/DH category who aren't lefties are Milton Bradley, who wants a multi-year deal; Manny Ramirez, who wants a multi-year deal and is, well, Manny Ramirez; and Pat Burrell.

Given that it doesn't really make sense for this team to go more than one year for a DH addition, with Justin Smoak and Max Ramirez in the pipeline, Bradley and Manny are out. 

But Burrell is a guy who would be intriguing.  The market for him appears to be weak, because there are other guys with his skill set out there flooding the market (Adam Dunn, Bobby Abreu, Jason Giambi), and he, much like Javier Vazquez, seems to not get the recognition for being as good as he is because he didn't turn out to be as great as people once hoped. 

So if you're a power hitter coming off a middling year and wanting to take a one year deal and then test the waters again in a more inviting free agent market (and the 2009-10 offseason looks like it will be bereft of exciting options), wouldn't Texas be the ideal place to land?  Really, isn't that what Milton Bradley did?  And didn't it pay off?

Wouldn't Burrell be able to put up some impressive numbers at TBIA, hitting behind Kinsler, Young and Hamilton, and with Davis-Cruz-Murphy coming up behind him?  Doesn't that set him up pretty well to jump back in the free agent pool next season?

And for the Rangers?  That allows you to let Max Ramirez spend the year in Oklahoma working on his defense and letting you figure out once and for all if he will stay behind the plate or have to be relegated to DH duties, gives you a replacement for Bradley in the middle of the lineup, and gives you all the advantages that a veteran on a one year deal offers to a team (which we've discussed the past few years ad nauseum).

Wouldn't that money be better spent on pitching?  Yeah, sure.  But look at Heyman's list...what pitcher on that list to you really want to spend money on?  There's Ben Sheets, no question...I'm on board with bringing him here, if you can make a deal work. 

But who else?  C.C. Sabathia was the only other starter on the market I really was on board with.  Jon Garland is basically a lesser version of Kevin Millwood or Vicente Padilla, and is going to likely get more money for more years than either of those guys received from the Rangers when they signed.

Oliver Perez?  He's an enigma, and I think has the potential to still be great.  But there's a Ho quality to him, a certain Ho-ness that I think makes him a bad risk for the Rangers.  I could see the Rangers giving him 5 years, $65 million, and having him get hurt, become a head case (or more of one than he already is), and implode.  He seems like a terrible fit in Texas...he's a guy who needs to stay in the N.L. and go to a team with a pitcher-friendly park.

On the relief market, Brian Fuentes and Kerry Wood were the two high-profile guys the Rangers were in on, and they are off the board.  I don't see anyone else out there spending significant money on.

So where are we on free agents?  As far as I'm concerned, the dream scenario would be to add Burrell on a one year deal for about what you paid Bradley last year, add Sheets, give Blalock and either Millwood or Padilla away to whomever will take their salaries and (one would hope) give you a halfway decent prospect, and the find a lefty reliever to bring in.

If you could add either Sheets or Burrell, that would be fine, as well.  But otherwise?  As far as the free agent market goes, I'd pass.

I suspect the Rangers still want to try to land a young starting pitcher via trade, and of course, the catcher to Boston talk still won't die, but at this point, it seems a lot less likely to me that a deal is going to end up going down.  Millwood or Padilla aren't going to be dealt unless the Rangers have a replacement arm in the rotation, and that isn't likely to happen as part of that trade, but would involve a catcher trade going down.  Moving Blalock means either committing to having your backup catcher DH a lot (which the team seems loathe to do) or committing to Max Ramirez as your DH (ditto), unless a righty DH is added from elsewhere.  And Burrell seems the most likely possibility there.

So, there are still possibilities, and it is certainly possible things could fall into place.  But I just don't see a big re-making out there.  And at this point, I'd be willing to bet that no major league free agent is signed between now and the start of spring training (and if one is signed, is a lefty reliever on a one year deal).

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Comments

Display:

I saw this on a fan post, but thought I would throw it in anyway. Career batting average is surprising

The 30-year-old Bard batted .202 with a homer and 16 RBI in 178 at-bats for the Padres last season, spending time on the disabled list with a sprained left ankle and a strained right triceps.

His career batting average is .265, with 28 home runs and 168 RBI in 431 games with the Indians, Red Sox and Padres. He has the fifth-best average among active catchers with at least 350 games.

by chadallenfan on Jan 3, 2009 12:32 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Rangers

Will Burrell take a one year deal? If so I think he would be a good fit. The problem with the Rangers is who out there do you go get with all the young talent coming up which should be ready within a year and a half. The difference between the 2004 Rangers and the Rangers now is we have so many talented young guys almost ready that signing free agents would only block them. After 2004 we didn’t have the talent almost ready and so that made it much more frustrating.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 12:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

3B

Addressing 3B via free agency is absent from your post. Why is this? Like Burrell, Crede could benefit from a one-year deal to reestablish himself. However, you could argue that Burrell would be a better investment as he will spend more time in the Rangers lineup.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Jan 3, 2009 12:51 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Crede

I just don’t know that he’s that big an upgrade over what you’re going to get from Metcalf at 3B, particularly given Crede’s injury issues, that it makes a ton of sense. Although going for him rather than Burrell is certainly an option.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 3, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wouldn't be surprised if

JD signed Chad Cordero, Isringhausen, or maybe even Gagne. Imagine all the fun that Josh Lewin would have with Isringhausen pitching and Saltalamacchia catching.

by Randy Richardson on Jan 3, 2009 12:52 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I just hope the starters can stay healthy

or have enough stopgap pitching options to be able to avoid spoiling Holland or any other youngster thrown in the fire too early. I can’t bear to watch another Matt Harrison-type crying episode or Warner Madrugal deer-in-the-headlights look in Yankee stadium.

Aikman and Bradshaw?

Please. They are in the same league as Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon as QBs who were taken to the SB by great Defenses and great Running Games.
-DJCahill

by SarasotaRanger on Jan 3, 2009 12:53 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

What crying episode?

I remember some Mendoza near-crying episodes, but no Matt Harrison episodes.

by Joe Mama on Jan 3, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In one of his first starts

at home, he looked to be tearing up a bit when he got the hook.

Aikman and Bradshaw?

Please. They are in the same league as Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon as QBs who were taken to the SB by great Defenses and great Running Games.
-DJCahill

by SarasotaRanger on Jan 3, 2009 5:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I remember that too

I think it was his second start, the first time he kind of got roughed up a bit.

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 3, 2009 5:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like burrell

i think he is definitely underrated. I would also go for the crede signing for his defense and average hitting ability.

Of course, Sheets is the guy this team needs. Not just if you look at ‘09, but if you really want to win in ’10. If we don’t get another pitcher, it’ll be a painful year, and I don’t mean someone like Guardado

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 3, 2009 1:09 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Lowe

Mid-30s, and rejected a 3 year, $36 million offer from the Mets.

His home/road splits aren’t great…he’s had an ERA over 4 on the road each of the last 3 years. Someone (I forget who) said Lowe was the perfect pitcher for the Dodgers, because Dodger Stadium depresses every type of offense other than homers, and Lowe excels at not allowing homers.

And he needs a good infield defense behind him, which you aren’t going to have so long as FOTF is at shortstop, which means that, at least for 2009, you are not getting great value from Lowe.

I imagine you’d have to go 3 years, $45 million or 4 years, $55 million to get him to come to Texas. Would you be willing to do that?

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 3, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Draft picks

Would signing Lowe cost us a draft pick?

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 3, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think so

But given the track record of the Rangers’ 2nd round picks, I don’t know that I really care.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 3, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No faith in this system's only 3B prospects?

Or mini-Kasey Kiker

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 3, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you say so, brosephine.

’Twouldn’t surprise me if there are people here who genuinely believe things like that, though.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 5:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll counter:
  • Good peripherals
  • Ground-ball pitcher
  • Infield defense supposedly has improved
  • Innings eater
  • No recent injury history

I’m not sure I buy into your 4+ road ERA argument. It was only moderately below-average last year, but considerably better in ‘07 and ’06. And anyway, you talk as if a mid-4 ERA on the road is something to be ashamed of. Compare that with the rest of our rotation, and it’s almost ‘ace’-like.

Another thing to consider. Lowe has been an absolute wonder on the mound in the second-half of the season in three of four years with the Dodgers. Those numbers are probably skewed in the Texas heat, but, by how much? I’m hard pressed to find a clear answer.

Again, his age is a concern… but, the guy isn’t throwing cheese. A clean bill of health seems to suggest Lowe knows what he’s doing. And a new pitching coach would have nothing to tinker with.

Lastly, it’s not like 3 years – $45 million is overkill; that’s only a few more million than Millwood is making… with better results. It’s not like it would handcuff the ballclub.

The worse thing that could happen is Lowe gets hurt. Fortunately we have enough pitching depth to compensate.

by oc on Jan 3, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

x
And anyway, you talk as if a mid-4 ERA on the road is something to be ashamed of. Compare that with the rest of our rotation, and it’s almost ‘ace’-like.

A mid-4 ERA on the road, when pitching in the N.L., isn’t really much of an improvement, if any, over Millwood and Padilla.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 3, 2009 5:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

not just the NL

Its the NL West. 15 starts against the NL West. 90.1 innings. He had a 2.33 ERA against those teams.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 3, 2009 6:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Compared to the NL West, hell yeah

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 3, 2009 11:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The NL West had

the 2 worst offenses in the league last year by runs scored. Seattle and Oakland weren’t far ahead, but still better than the NL West was in the past and the Angels were better than any of the offenses in the NL West last year.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

200 innings pitched

is a huge improvement over anyone in the Rangers rotation in recent years.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 3, 2009 7:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Pitching is different in NL than AL

Mainly due to the DH. Other than his outstanding year in 2002, hes been very average in the AL. In 2003 he put up a 4.47 ERA and in 2004 it was 5.42. Only when he went to the Dodgers is where he started putting up mid 3 ERA. In the NL. Without a DH. Also, hes 35, and is coming off 4 straight seasons of 200 innings pitched. Hes going to demand a long term deal, and since he rejected a 3 year, $36 million contact from the Mets, hes going to be demanding a lot more. Who knows when his body is going to give in

Be very cautious with him. Let him stay in the NL. Don’t let him waste a spot in this rotation for the next 3-4 years

In Smoak We Trust

by Smoak Some on Jan 3, 2009 6:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sheets

I do not understand what the hold up is with Sheets. He seems like a no-brainer for the Rangers. Perhaps, he does not want to come to Texas, but the Rangers should make every effort to get him. I know the injuries are a red flag, but he is everything that Nolan Ryan talks about. Worry about trading Millwood or Padilla after you sign him. Would you go 2yrs 30 million for Sheets with a club option for a 3rd?

by peachygbc_1 on Jan 3, 2009 1:33 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The hold-up is money...

The Rangers would be more active on the free agent market only after they dump salary….which is not likely to happen before Burrell and Sheets sign.

We are what we are…

by death of the cool on Jan 3, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Injury

What about his injury, could that be the hold up?

by Excel Hearts Choi on Jan 3, 2009 2:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It could.

Do you have access/subscription to Will Carroll’s info?

I would be curious to see what he thinks.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 3, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Looks like they trying to unload salary

It seems like they want to trade either Millwood or Padilla to save some money than go after Sheets

In Smoak We Trust

by Smoak Some on Jan 3, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Rotation/ AL West

What type of rotation would the Rangers need to compete in the West in ‘09? Seems like the A’s are thinking they can compete this year. I not saying trade the farm, but with our offense and a healthy Sheets could we compete?

What about this?

1- Sheets
2 – Millwood (contract year)
3 – Padilla (contract year)
4 – B Mac
5 – spring traing battle or trade

Could this compete in the West in ’09?

by peachygbc_1 on Jan 3, 2009 1:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

If...

Everyone had an above average year and stayed healthy….yes.

But:

A.The Rangers are now cheap and we will not see that rotation

B.No way all of those guys stay healthy for a full season.

by death of the cool on Jan 3, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Could it compete in 2009?

Yes it could.

Would this team be a sure fire playoff team with it? No

Would this team be better off in the long run because of it? No.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Long Run

Again, I do not the rotation above hurts with much, but money. I understand that it takes a spot away from a Harrison, Hurley or Feldman, but what else is the downside. Sheets could make a huge difference or be a huge mistake, but I’ll take that chance. Yes, trading Millwood or Padilla would be ideal. Wouldn’t the influx of fans for a team in contention in September help offset some of Sheets contract?

by peachygbc_1 on Jan 3, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

gun shy

is it just me or does JD seem gun shy? or is it really Nolan being gun shy on offseason acquisitions because he is actually smart enough to think somehting through…

by awall22 on Jan 3, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's Hicks.

I really think the financial/economy issues are hitting him hard. Also, any forecasting done has to show a dramatic decrease in ticket sales next year, along with an already eroding season ticket base.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 3, 2009 2:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yup

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 3, 2009 3:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nolan

Nolan voiced his frustration with our inactivity this offseason fairly recently (don’t remember where the link was though, I’ll have to try and find it). So he’s definitely not the one being gunshy.

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 3, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Found it

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/columnists/jim_reeves/story/1113796.html

Ryan, the Rangers’ president, joined the Texas contingent at the meetings in Las Vegas in early December, hoping to pull the trigger on a deal or two, or maybe even three. What he discovered was that there’s far too much jawing and not enough actual horse trading there to suit an old rancher from Texas.

“You bring all your people in, [other teams’ GMs] indicate they have an interest in some of your players, but when you try to pursue it further, you don’t get much response,” Ryan said in discussing the annual GM dance at the winter meetings. "It was frustrating that we weren’t able to do anything.

“I don’t know that I’d make a good general manager. You make an assessment of what your needs are and target someone who might be available. Once you identify what you need, I like to pursue it and follow through with it.”

The Rangers also have yet to sign a free agent, although Ryan says the team might have added someone just as important.

“Mike Maddux [the new pitching coach] is our free agent,” Ryan said. “He’ll have as much of an impact on our pitching staff as anybody could in the influence that he’ll have on our young pitchers.”

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 3, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sheets

If you keep 3 veterans in the rotation in 2009 then at least one young guy is not able to get his feet wet so to speak. Then in 2010 when we should be competing we are either forced to go sign another veteran because we don’t have faith in our young guys or we waste that year letting young guys get their feet wet. I just don’t see a way we can have 3 veterans on the rotation next year and it be in line with the plan we have been spending the last 18 months putting together.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 5:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Let 'em break in via the BP or through the openings when someone goes down.

It’s not like our starters are all gonna go 32-34 starts each.

And adding an ace like Sheets is something we likely won’t have a chance to do again. The FA market is much lighter on SP’s next year, and the price is likely to go up to boot.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 5:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hate the BP idea

Theres a reason they are starters. They aren’t relievers. The only time I understand doing that is if you are in a playoff situation like the Rays last year with Price. But to bring up a guy who is a starter and stick him in the pen is a recipe for nongood results in my eyes.

Im not against adding Sheets and I realize the market may not allow us to add such a quality arm again but my concern is with so many veterans and with Nolan at the helm it may be very easy to revert back to the Rangers of previous years and switch back into “win at all cost” mode and all this work we’ve seen over the last 18 months to build and develop the best crop of prospects in the majors would be for nothing.

Millwood and Padilla can pretty much be penciled in for 60+ starts between the two of them. I would expect Sheets to give us 25 at least. Feldman hasn’t had any injury concerns the last several years. So really Mccarthy, or whoever the 5th starter is, is the only guy who you are legitimately saying will break down to give other youngsters a chance. What happens if in July we are in the race? Do we continue with the youngsters plan or do we trade some of those for a veteran? What if we finish the season only a couple games out and none of our youngsters got time to get ready. Then you are either looking at 2010 as a building year letting young guys get their feet wet or you go out and sign more veterans so you can win now.

Basically I am happy with the plan that is in place. If that means making 2009 a building year and watching the growing pains of a young staff then so be it. Going out and signing veterans that block young guys only slows that process.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 5:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If we really don't have

any openings in the rotation for the young guys to get their feet next year (after signing Sheets), then we are probably also contending for the playoffs. As much as I want Sheets, I would still expect him to miss at least a handful of starts. Millwood and Padilla also haven’t been perfect in making each start. And on top of that, that means that 2 of Feldman, Hurley, Harrison, McCarthy, and whoever else, have been not only healthy, but good enough to make 32-34 starts next year.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 3, 2009 7:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thats the problem

We would be contending for the playoffs but not guaranteed anything. Then it probably means Millwoods option for 2010 vests and you want to bring back Padilla. All the while our young guys are in AAA and not helping the big club. Sure an occasional spot start here or there but I want them in full time. Right now we have it pretty well spaced out where Hurley and harrison could be getting their feet wet this year, Holland and Feliz in 2010 and 2011 and Main, Kiker, and the next wave in 2011 and 2012. You start giving veterans spots and it becomes a logjam and we are forced to trade away those young guys which doesn’t help our stigma that we can’t develop or give up on young pitchers too early. Its a domino effect. Right now we are set to be a very competitive team for multiple years in a row with homegrown young players. You start messing with that plan and its back to the Rangers of the early-mid 2000s constantly having to patch holes with veterans and trading away young guys for that win now mentality.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 7:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gawd that would suck balls!
We would be contending for the playoffs

/srcsm

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 3, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Poor choice of words on my part

Im fine contending for the playoffs. I would just rather do it with the young talent we have spent the last 18 months assembling than with veterans who we have to continually look to replace because we are too afraid to give young guys a shot.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 7:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you see any of the young guys

really needing that rotation spot taking by Sheets next year? Padilla likely isn’t going to be here in 2010 if we have the rest of the rotation looking ready to compete and Millwood is up in the air. If he pitches well, then we have to keep him though that isn’t much of a problem since its just a 1 year deal that is easy to trade if he earns that spot.

And a pitching logjam is one of the best problems to have.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 3, 2009 11:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes I do

If you have Sheets, Millwood, and Padilla then that leaves two spots which is basically just one since Feldman is virtually assured of a rotation spot. One spot for BMac, Harrison, and Hurley. I think two of those at least need to be in the majors on Opening Day. The Rangers have said nothing about moving Feldman back to the pen so I don’t think that is an option right now. I think they are going with him as a starter or bust. If you keep 3 veterans it means you are going for it this year which means that unless you are completely out of the playoff hunt by midseason you won’t be trading one of them (which would open a spot for a young guy). That simply pushes back a young guy and 2010 then turns into another building year or we have to go out and sign veterans again whcih is the same pattern we were in earlier this decade.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 4, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sheets will likely sign a 2 year deal

which means he is here in 2010 as well. There might be some type of option that makes 2011 a possibility. That’s more of a long run thing since we are talking about an ace level talent who will be here for 3 years.

Who is going to be here in 2010 that won’t get a chance to pitch in 2009? Harrison, Hurley, and McCarthy are the only guys ready to try out the Majors this year who can have a good future in the league. I’m ignoring Feldman since as you said, he probably isn’t losing his rotation spot. I can guarantee you those 3 guys will get their fair share of innings this year in the Majors.

Hunter and Holland are two guys that will be pushed back a bit by signing Sheets and there is nothing wrong with that. Both of those guys only have 1 full season in the minors. Spending an extra full year in the minors won’t ruin them and lets you have them ready to go in 2010. Neither of them were expected to even come up before the AS Break and if everything goes as well as you believe (since we aren’t even going to have room for all 3 of Harrison, Hurley, and McCarthy), those 2 wouldn’t even be seeing Major League time this year. So then, is postponing 2 of Hurley, Harrison, and McCarthy a bit not worth a strong chance at the playoffs this year as well as having a veteran top of the rotation talent in 2010 and 2011?

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no quick fixes

2009 should be another building year. I don’t want the Rangers to do anything that pushes back the development of their young pitchers. If the Rangers do sign Sheets, I expect them to trade Millwood for another hamburger.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 4, 2009 9:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

Why is signing Sheets pushing back the development of the young pitchers? One guy is already going to be an odd man out. Sheets has a history of missing a handful of starts each year and Millwood and Padilla aren’t quite a perfect example of healthy workhorse pitchers. Add to that 2 young guys who I like but are still risks in being effective and I doubt that McCarthy, Hurley, Harrison, and Feldman don’t each end up with 100 innings next year as long if they aren’t suffering from any injuries of their own. And if they don’t, you’re most likely looking at a playoff team.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

not the end of the world

Having Sheet, Millwood and Padilla in the rotation wouldn’t be the end of the world. I also think Millwood gets dealt if they sign Sheets. I do think that it is imperative that Harrison and Hurley get significant ML innings in 2009. It would also be nice if Holland could get 10-15 starts with the Rangers. My fear is that JD and Ryan think this team is closer than it really is due to a good first half of 2009.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 4, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Holland

If he gets 15 starts, that means he is going to be up at the beginning of July. I really don’t feel comfortable with Holland pitching at all in the Majors this year, but I really don’t think that a half season in the upper levels is anywhere near enough for him. I want the Rangers to take it slowly with him and maybe let him come up in September if need be.

The goal for this team to compete is 2010. They aren’t going to be selling the farm to do compete next year so I don’t understand what the problem is with competing a bit earlier.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree on Holland

If he makes 15 starts for us this year something has gone horribly wrong. Like Seattle 2008 wrong

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 4, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What if he posts

a 2.56 era, 1.05 whip, 10 k/9 and 2.5 bb/9 in his 15 OKC starts?

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 4, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Even if he has a perfect game each time out

Unless he is showcasing at least one plus pitch that isn’t a fastball, he needs to stay in the minors and work on his secondary stuff. He has the talent to be a number 1 starter and I don’t want to risk that.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 10:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sheets

Part of it is the mindset of the organization. Nolan has given off the aura that this club should win. I think that will trickle down to the rest of the organization. With Sheets along with Millwood and Padilla we are going to be expected to win. Unless we are completely out of the playoff race in the summer then none of our veterans are going to be traded to open up spots for young guys.

And you can’t bank on guys missing time. Millwood and Padilla will most likely combine for 55-60 starts. Feldman doesn’t have a history of injury besides his TJ at the beginning of his career. BMac does but then again he could get back to the form prior to coming here and be healthy as a horse. Sheets has a history but he could go until August like last year with no problems. Basically if you are banking on injuries to get young guys time in the majors you are not preparing for the future correctly. I want them to have designated rotation spots. Adding Sheets without trading a veteran takes one of those spots away.

Also if we are a playoff team then that means in 2010 Millwoods option will most likely vest and we will exercise Padillas option so not only do the young guys not get time in 09 to get acclimated but in 2010 theres no room also. And then instead of it just being Hurley and Harrison we are trying to make room for its Hurley, Harrison, Hunter, Holland, and Feliz with guys like Kiker, Poveda, and Main probably right on their heels.

These last 18 months we have been accumulating al this talent in the minors and letting it develop with the understanding we would let this plan play out and although we may struggle in the short term we will be better off in the long run. Now it seems people want to focus solely on next year and not look at the big picture. Its back to the same old attitude we had earlier this decade. Lets win now. How will we ever know how good some of these young guys are if we never give them the chance to prove themselves. Spot starts due to injury aren’t enough to know. Signing veterans only delays it. Its time for us to start giving our young pitchers a chance to sink a little before they swim in the long run. We have done that with positional prospects but it seems we never want to give the young pitchers a chance. That needs to change. Signing Sheets and keeping Millwood and Padilla does not change that.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 4, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Once again

If these guys aren’t getting hurt and are earning their spots in the rotation, than this is a playoff team. Last year, the Rangers used 15 different starters. The top 5 guys in GS started 110 games which leaves 52 between 10 guys. 2007, 15 different rotation members. The top 5 got 118 starts leaving 44 out there for the remaining 10. Go back as far as you want, its the same story each year for the Rangers. There are always 40-50 starts out there spread throughout 10 guys or so.

Unless we are completely out of the playoff race in the summer then none of our veterans are going to be traded to open up spots for young guys.

Is this seriously an issue? Even if they aren’t traded, we are getting draft pick compensation for them which could easily be better than what we trade them for if we try to force them out the door.

If we sign Sheets and Millwood is pitches enough to get his option year, than Padilla is gone in 2010 or we pick up his option only to look at trading him.
Another option is to keep Padilla and trade Millwood. There is no way this team goes into 2010 with 3 veterans in the rotation with Feldman, Hurley, Harrison, McCarthy, Holland, Hunter, Feliz, and some other arms looking like good candidates. It just wouldn’t be worth it to pay them instead of replacing them with equal talents for a fraction of the cost and getting the returns on a trade.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No

Just because these guys are healthy does not mean we are automatically a playoff team. We’d be in the hunt for sure but my fear is we would finish a game or two out of the playoffs, we would keep all three veterans because either we had to or they had decent enough years to keep them plus none of the young guys have proven themselves enough to warrant a full time spot. We may decide to trade some of those young guys to clear the logjam and go with veterans. I seriously believe Nolan could have a big hand in this. It scares the crap out of me. I would rather finish 10 games out in 2009 but allow the young guys to get significant rotation time, by that I mean designated spots and taking the ball every 5 days. Then in 2010 be competitive with those young guys and stay competitive for years to come. I don’t want to see us try and sign veterans year after year to get a quick fix and see all this young talent in the minors never given a chance to succeed and either see them erode all their options making spot starts and losing them to a DFA or trading them away and having to watch them flourish with another team.

And Millwood and Padilla will not garner draft pick compensation if they leave next winter.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 4, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We won't keep all 3 veterans

going into 2010. The only way that happens is if 2 of McCarthy, Hurley, Feldman, and Harrison don’t cut it next year. There’s just no reason for it and if Hicks wants to save money, then there really is no way that happens.

I wouldn’t worry about Nolan either. He proved himself a good bit last year that he isn’t going to be forcing things to happen and is going to let JD continue building this team.

Just curious, would you hate seeing Johan Santana here for the next 3 years?

And Millwood and Padilla are probably going to end up as Type Bs. If they aren’t, then you really have nothing to worry about with them coming back in 2010.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 11:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

2010

If Millwood pitches 180 innings his option vests. And If Padilla pitches well enough his option will most likely be picked up. If we are a competitive team in 2009 then both those things are likely to happen. And if those things happen I believe Hicks and Nolan will think we are close enough to give it a run in 2010 which means we won’t be trading a veteran so that a rookie can get his feet wet.

Nolan does scare me. Some of his comments sound to me like a guy who was feeling out his position last year and is looking to put his stamp on this organization real soon. And I think in a way that is way over his head.

As for Santana, I would love to see him here for 3 years just like I would love to see Sheets here. But I think we have to get rid of one of the veterans if that were to happen.

And no I don’t think Millwood and Padilla will by type Bs. They weren’t this winter and it would take alot for them to get up that high. Even still type Bs are only good if you offer arbitration. I would be skeptical of offering arbitration to those two because after next year theres a good chance they would take it at their age and performance levels.

Call me a pesimist I don’t know. I do know I haven’t been this excited in the Rangers in a long time and alot of it stems from the long term future of this club with its top young talent on the verge of arriving. I feel by signing Sheets and not getting rid of one of the veterans would only delay that youth and lead to more times like the early part of the decade where we are constantly going out and signing veterans to get that “one last piece”.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 5, 2009 7:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The team is looking at 2010 anyways

They have said that many times. No matter what happens in 2009, they are looking at 2010 as their first year of many to where they will be trying to compete.

From everything Nolan has done so far, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on if he’ll try to compete at all costs.

So the only way you would want to see Santana here is if we can get rid of Millwood or Padilla? You are way too in love with these young pitchers who have proven little and don’t have top of the rotation talent. I want to see them get every chance to succeed, but they will get that here and that doesn’t mean we should miss an opportunity to get a top of the rotation pitcher. There are 4 pitchers that would be going for 2 spots. Name one time in Ranger history where we haven’t been able to get or 6th and 7th options for the rotation a good amount of playing time. You are worrying about an issue that will be non existent, even if this team is in the playoff hunt.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 5, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hurley over Feldman

Bigsteve, what do I have to do to convince you that Feldman was just not very good last year? Harrison deserves a spot before Feldman.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 4, 2009 9:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You can't

I saw something in feldman last year that really intrigued me. Does he have a higher upside than Hurley or Harrison? No. At his best he will probably be just a bottom of the rotation innings eater. But a pretty nice one of those. Taking all things into consideration last year was a very successful year for Scooter in my book. Those things being the fact he came to spring training as a reliever and hadn’t started a game as a professional ever. He only was in the minors as a starter for a month or so before coming up to the bigs. He took the ball every 5th day no questions asked and even when we tried to ease his workload we always seemed to have to use him. As I have pointed out before if you take out the last inning or partial inning of his starts his ERA is under 4. His ERA in that last inning/partial inning is almost 15. I personally attribute that to the manager not knowing when to pull him. Its one thing to try and squeeze an extra inning out of a guy like Millwood whos been a starter his entire career. But to constantly try and squeeze an extra inning out of Feldman, who 9 months ago was a reliever who would pitch usually at most 2 innings, is crazy IMO. If Feldman had just pitched 5 innings in each start I would have been happy and his numbers would have been much much better to the eye. I expect this next year he is able to complete that extra inning better and his numbers improve pretty significantly. Add in the fact he is only 26 years old and is out of options and he absolutely deserves a rotation spot over Hurley or Harrison.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 4, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

on how Wash handled Feldman. Let Hurley and Feldman fight it out for the #5 spot.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 4, 2009 10:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BMac

If BMac is healthy he beats both those guys out for the #5 spot (assuming we have 3 veterans if not then BMac has the #3 spot all but locked up if healthy)

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 4, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BMac

I don’t think McCarthy will be trying to win a job in ST. He is either the #3 or #4 SP.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 4, 2009 10:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 4, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Harrison deserves a spot over Hurley actually

Feldman was pretty good last year. He pitched a ton of innings though and that made his overall stats look worse. If you look at what he was doing before he reached 100 innings last season, he was doing pretty good. He’s going to have to improve on that, but I don’t see stamina being a problem for him again next season which will help him out a lot for the second half of the season.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But if there really is no room for the young guys

to get their feet wet, then you are talking about a team that is likely going to be making the playoffs. IDK about you, but that would make me ecstatic.

And who are these young guys that are losing so much playing time? Since I doubt we don’t have any openings or pitchers who are ineffective, I bet we get to see a lot of what Hurley, Harrison, Feldman, and McCarthy have to offer. From that point, we can start making decisions on the next wave of guys. I really wouldn’t mind one bit if we don’t have to force Holland, Feliz, and Hunter into the rotation next year. And then we get a logjam of Main, Kiker, etc. That’s incredible. There are so many amazing options to work with at that point if we are forced to work with what to do with these amazing pitching prospects and be stuck with maybe a year of Millwood and a year or 2 of Sheets for 2010 and 2011.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 3, 2009 7:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Playoffs?

I agree the goal is the playoffs…..I would love it to be with home grown talent. However, if Sheets for 3 years gets us there in 2009 or 2010 I am pumped. With due respect, sometimes I wonder if the lonestarball community wants the playoffs or to just grip all the time. I am not saying 2009 is playoffs for sure but…….look at this Tom Hicks

C – Salty, Tea
1st – Davis
2nd – Kinsler
SS – MY
3rd – Crede (1 yr deal)
OF – Hambone, Cruz, Murphy, Byrd
DH – Blalock
Bench – Kat, Duran

Rotation
Sheets, Millwood, Padilla, BMac, ?

Bullpen
FF, CJ, Benoit, Warner, Nippert, Turnbow, lefty to be signed

that can compete in 2009 in the West. Low risk and Crede and Sheets block no one.

All of the farm kids will not pan out!!!

by peachygbc_1 on Jan 3, 2009 9:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Personally

I like gripping all the time.

by Snark on Jan 3, 2009 9:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Personally, it depends upon what I'm gripping

But yeah.

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 3, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes I get bored

and will do it for no reason. Though this isn’t one of those times.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 3, 2009 11:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I completely agree with this post

For a team with self-imposed fund limits, and only a long shot at best to contend, there isn’t much on the FA market that really makes sense for us. Sheets is really the only thing that interests me right now – he’d have to be taken off the board for me to have much interest in Pat Burrell, who seems like more of a luxury item than a need.

I would be on board with signing Joe Crede to a 1-year deal, just to provide us with a better option than Metcalf at 3B but other than him and Sheets… bleh.

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 3, 2009 2:37 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

This, in all respects.

Aikman and Bradshaw?

Please. They are in the same league as Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon as QBs who were taken to the SB by great Defenses and great Running Games.
-DJCahill

by SarasotaRanger on Jan 3, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lowe, Sheets, Hoffman and Crede all interest me.

As does Giambi if we could move Blalock.

Giambi in this park = many, many home runs.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Giambi's another lefty, though

He’d be an upgrade over Blalock, sure, but (depending upon his contract demands) would it be enough of one to justify acquiring him when we’re really looking for a right-handed bat?

Hoffman would definitely be nice to have on a 1-year deal, but I’d want to see Fx2 closing still, not him.

Lowe = meh for me. Solid yet still fairly unspectacular track record, and he’s getting old. Unless we can really offload Millwood’s salary, I’m not really sure I want to spend that sort of money on that type of player.

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 3, 2009 5:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why are we looking for a right handed bat?

We have two good right handed bats in the OF, two good right handed bats in the IF, and one right handed (or switch hitter) bat behind the plate.

Between Byrd, Cruz, FFace, Kinsler and Teagarden/Salty, we have a lot of good right handed hitters penciled into the linup next year.

We have Davis and Hambone as our good lefty bats.

I fail to see how our need is strictly for a righty bat if we deal Blalock.

We need good hitters, period.

(And if you bring up David Murphy and his .321 OBP as a reason we don’t need a hitter like Giambi, I’m gonna curb stomp three orphans.)

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 5:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

righties

Its about their placement in the order. With Kins and MY being at the top and the 3B and catcher being at the bottom that leaves one RH bat for the middle of the order. Thats assuming Cruz doesn’t regress back to the Cruz we have seen before. I don’t like the idea of a Hamilton, RHbat, Blalock, Davis 3-6 in the late innings.

If you don’t add a RH bat then be prepared to see Davis at 7th for a good portion of the season.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 5:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So you want to add a RH bat solely so you can move Davis from 7th to 6th?

I don’t get what you’re talking about at all.

I’m fine with Kinsler-FFace-Hambone-Cruz-Davis-Byrd-Blalock-Catcher-3rd Base.

You can even flip Davis and Blalock and I’d still be fine with it, though I think Davis is the better hitter and should hit 5th.

But if you wanted to dump Hankles and add a guy like Giambi, that’d really fortify the lineup, whether Giambi hit 5th with Davis 7th, or vice-versa.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You say that now

But as soon as Davis’ name shows up on the lineup card in 7th behind Byrd or Cruz I guarantee you people, maybe not yourself, would be all up in arms. Would Giambi be enough of an upgrade to warrant the raise from Hanks 6 mil to Giambis salary? I doubt it. I think most people are in aggreance that to get a RH bat it would take dumping Hank which is fine. You dump Hank and then your heart of the order looks like this.

Hamilton, RH bat, Davis, Byrd, Cruz

You can filp Byrd and Cruz if you wish. But without dumping Hank I would be willing to bet money that Davis doesn’t hit above Hank. Not that it isn’t the best idea or shouldn’t happen but I just don’t see Washington hitting Davis above Hank.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think we all

are in agreeance here……

"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner

by red shoe ranger on Jan 3, 2009 8:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The only problem is

We can’t really be certain Cruz is going to be good enough to hit cleanup. He’s still one of the big question marks going into this season, and I don’t think you can count on him hitting 4th. Which is of course why we’re looking for a RH bat if we can find one.

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 3, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My guess is...

….that Byrd is the 4th outfielder and Murphy is starting. Or at the very least, they platoon, which amounts to Murphy starting the majority of the time.

So now, you are talking about Kinsler-Young-Hamilton-Cruz-Blalock-Murphy-Catcher-Davis-3B.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 3, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I highly doubt that

Washington loves Byrd and frankly Byrd has provent he last two years to deserve to be out there a majority of the time. Plus with Hamilton needing to play RF about 1/3 of the time and Cruz not having played LF or CF I think we see alot of Murphy-Byrd-Hamilton in the OF this year

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 6:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

where does that leave cruz??

i think its going to be more of a byrd and murphy rotating in the outfield. but as you say wash seems to love him some byrd so i expect murphy to be the odd man out

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 3, 2009 6:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately

Unless Cruz proves he wasn’t just a two month wonder last year and he really has turned the corner then I think he will be relegated to sort of a platoon duty. He’ll play about 100-120 games in RF. Hamilton will play the other 40-60. When Hamilton is in CF then Byrd and Murphy will rotate in LF. Thats just the way I see it playing out

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This team needs to roll with what it knows.

Byrd has the better glove in center, and Hamilton can stay healthier playing right.

A controllable power-hitter like Cruz is the perfect type of player to package with Millwood, so long as someone like the Dodgers (who are desperate for a pitcher) can take on the better chunk of his contract.

Deal them for some low-A, high-upside dingo (the type Daniels’ likes to target), free up some money and sign a pitcher.

Why in the hell does this not make sense to anyone else?

by oc on Jan 3, 2009 8:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

Hamilton’s defense might improve simply because he just hasn’t played a lot of baseball in recent years. I think he gets one more year in CF before they move him when Borbon is ready, even though from a defensive standpoint he might be better off in right. Cruz will be in right.

This doesn’t make sense to anyone else because right now Cruz is not that valuable. His upside looks good and he may breakout this year, but it would be foolish to deal him and Millwood for a “dingo” just to free up payroll. He is quite likely to have more value to the Rangers here than in trade.

It does, though, make a lot of sense to package Millwood somehow, and the Dodgers may be a good target. Signing Sheets is a risk, but one I’d take.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 4, 2009 5:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

If Murphy is playing instead of Cruz, you still have the same problem.

A lot of lefties in the lineup.

Which is why the Rangers are focusing on finding a righty bat to replace Blalock.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 3, 2009 6:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

Key word is replace Blalock. If we bring in a RH bat I don’t see anyway Blalock is still here on Opening day

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 6:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I fucking hate David Murphy.

Excuse the language.

But there’s really no other way to express the depth of my dislike for him and his role on this team.

If he’s taking AB’s away from Cruz, then…. (Insert random treat against infants/hobos/nuns here.)

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 6:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

Of course I understand frustration if he’s taking away time from Cruz, but why so much hate?

by brettgardner on Jan 3, 2009 6:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he should be an everyday player

Im all for platooning Murphy with someone in LF. I wouldn’t mind seeing him getting some ABs against LH pitching to see if he could become an everyday OF but right now I think hes best as a platoon guy.

Now if I had to choose between he and Boggs I would put Murphy out there everyday. I am not high on Boggs as some on here are.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay.

I’m with you on those points.

I like Cruz and Byrd a lot better than Murphy, but Murphy and Boggs is a bit of a tossup. I prefer Boggs cause I like his defense better and think he has a higher offensive ceiling, but he’s also got a lot greater chance of failure at this point than Murphy at the plate.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Because runs are runs.

I’ve never understood the whole “We already have a good offense, so why should we care about trying to have a better one?” philosophy.

Just cause you’re good at something doesn’t mean you should stop worrying about getting better at it.

I mean, if there was a deal where I thought we could get an equivalent pitcher back for Cruz, then I’d be all for it. But there isn’t likely to be a deal like that out there.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 9:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But the Rangers will get better.

Andrus, Smoak and, to some extent, Ramirez are on the way.

by oc on Jan 3, 2009 9:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My guess:

He’s saying that Cruz is expendable since those guys are very close.

Or else he’s being sarcastic and I’m whiffing on it.

by brettgardner on Jan 3, 2009 9:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Aww, you phobes are so cute,

in a redneck kinda way.

Lemme guess, you’re scared of snakes too?

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 3, 2009 11:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why do you love Cruz so much?

What has he done over any extended period of time in the majors to warrant being a lock on this roster? Murphy may not be an allstar but he has been a very nice player here. Much better than Cruz

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 6:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

cruz

the thing with cruz is the type of minor league season he had last year and deserves a shot to be a starter again. they wont ever know what they really have with cruz without giving him a majority of the rf starts

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 3, 2009 6:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hes had those in the past

And when given a chance to play everyday has shown he is a AAAA player. Im all for giving him every start in RF when Hamilton isn’t out there. And if he shows he can play other OF positions then he could see the field more. Maybe play him at DH when Hammys in RF, although that would take Hank out of the lineup which I think is a downgrade.

I just don’t want to put all our eggs in Nelson Cruzs basket. He had an amazing season last year between AAA and the majors. he looked like he had turned the corner and could become a good eveyday outfielder for us for a few years. But theres just as good a chance he comes out and has a nice spring and then once the real games start he can’t hit a breaking ball and becomes a black hole in our lineup.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 6:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I think he’s still a big X factor, but i’m all for the one last shot full time outfield shot. see once and for all if he really turned that corner or not, i don’t really see how it hurts.

he may have turned a corner or he may prove again to be a 4a player

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 3, 2009 6:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

why not let hamilton play cf and cruz rf?

if cruz’s bat is anywhere close to what he showed last year then that outfield orientation has more value than a murphy/byrd/hamilton one

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 3, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The facts:
  • Hamilton is a butcher in centerfield
  • Hamilton will have to be babied more playing centerfield
  • Byrd plays a better centerfield
  • Byrd is a perfect one year stopgap for Borbon
  • Nelson Cruz = ????

by oc on Jan 3, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i'll take cruz over murphy

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 3, 2009 8:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Too bad Cruz doesn't play LF

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

butcher

Hamilton is far from a butcher in CF. He will be a RF longterm, but we could do far worse in CF!!

by peachygbc_1 on Jan 3, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hamilton's UZR is 9 runs below average in CF.

Marlon Byrd is +9.

Hamilton’s +/- isn’t any prettier.

If defense is a priority, which it should be, I’d like to save nine runs if I can.

by oc on Jan 3, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hamilton will get better

He’s got the athletic ability to play anywhere in the OF, he just needs more playing time there. I can see him playing a lot better there next year. RF is still probably his best place with Borbon coming up, but he can handle CF just fine.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 3, 2009 11:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I think Hamilton’s defense in center will be much improved next year.

Actually, I think everything about Hambone’s game will be improved next year. Honestly, I do.

"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM

by tricer on Jan 4, 2009 12:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

a few years away from the game means he’s still learning/shaking off the cobwebs. He’s not likely to be a top notch defensive CFer but he will be better in 2009.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 4, 2009 5:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You know what I mean, dude.

You really think I’m an idiot for wanting to give a full time COF job to Nelson Cruz next year?

I think that’s pretty harsh.

But, while we’re at it, my dream ’09 OF using the personnel we have would be Hamilton in LF, Byrd in CF, and Cruz in RF.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 8:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yay!

I knew we’d be friends at the end of the day.

I just did.

I though Nelson turned a corner last year. Looked like a completely different dude at the plate, and the stats at both AAA and Texas (SSS, I know) back that observation the fuck up.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 8:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Awesome.

Use that and his service time as leverage when we package him with Millwood with the guarantee that the negotiating party can eat most of 33’s contract, and sign Lowe!

It’ll be like a wet dream!

by oc on Jan 3, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Except

that every other team will use Millwood’s suckiness and Cruz’s ?iness to negotiate a poor return. Don’t make trades just for the sake of clearing payroll.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 4, 2009 5:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Corner OF

I am with dirk on Cruz. Tell me a better COF prospect, Murphy included who we should give the everyday job in 2009 if we don’t plan to contend..

by peachygbc_1 on Jan 3, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Cruz has a chance to be genuine plus player.

Murphy’s more of a “sure thing”, but the “thing” he’s “sure” to be is a below average COF with the potential to maybe be average.

Jerk me off with a freaking spoon.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 8:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and Derek Lowe is one of those "Much better than you think" kind of guys.

I know GDawg will probably cite Lowe’s win-loss record and say “No he’s not!”, but Lowe is actually a very good pitcher.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 5:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't be opposed to a Lowe signing at a reasonable price/length

But he just spurned the Mets who I think where offering him something like 3/36. Is he really worth more than that (in either years or dollars)?

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 3, 2009 5:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is he worth more than 12mm per season?

Absolutely he is.

I’d go 3/42 for him in a hearbeat. I’d even throw in a nice vesting option.

But it’s all about our finances.

The only reason he’s available for anywhere near that price is because money is tight allover. And, unfortunately, that apparently goes double for us. Cause I think he’ll be worth every single penny he gets.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 5:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That seems optimistic

James has him with a FIP of 3.80, but that’s playing with the Dodgers, so he’s got park and league advantages built in.

I’d guess 4.25-4.75, given the change in leagues, the change in home parks, and the infield defense.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 3, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love

about 180 innings of that. Not for the price in $ and years he’ll get, though.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 3, 2009 7:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nothing

but I think he’ll get 4 years and $60, plus it’s pretty obvious that the Rangers aren’t going to sign anyone for that kind of money this offseason.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 4, 2009 5:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

3.24 tRA last year, fwiw.

And if we had a whole rotation capable of 4.25-4.75 ERA’s we’d be golden.

Also, how good was the Dodger’s defense the past few years? Furcal is pretty good, iirc, and Loney seems capable enough. But he’s been dealing with Jeff “I Was Just Washing My Truck, I Swear” Kent at 2nd and a revolving door of crap like Nomar at 3rd, so it’s not like he’s been in some sort of infield defense nirvana. They’re better than what we’ll probably run out there in ‘09, but not by a huge amount, and we’ll presumably be getting a lot better come ’10 when the King hits the Bigs.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The question is...

…how much is a 36 year old who is likely to post a 4.25-4.75 ERA worth?

For how many years are you willing to commit to him?

I wouldn’t have an issue with him on a one year deal.

It is giving him $14-15 million for 4 years that bothers me. I don’t like the idea of committing half the team’s budget in 2009 and 2010 to FOTF and an old, non-ace starting pitcher.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 3, 2009 8:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yah, the 4th year would give me pause.

It’s a long time to commit to someone his age. But I think Lowe is a great bet to be worth 15mm over each of the next 3 years.

Of course this is all irrelevant cause we won’t sign Lowe or Sheets.

We just won’t.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sheets is younger than Lowe...

…and thus more likely to retain his value, and when he is healthy, he’s better than Lowe.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 3, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

'When'... 'If'....

I’m so sick and tired of these words.

by oc on Jan 3, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If

We do it all the time with our prospects. I’m so tired of let’s wait til next year…..

by peachygbc_1 on Jan 3, 2009 9:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Stop watching baseball

It’s frustrating, but every championship team won because an ‘if’ or two paid off.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 4, 2009 5:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Better

Who would you rather have pitching game one in the playoffs? Sheets or Lowe?

by peachygbc_1 on Jan 3, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lowe isn't that good

Or at least isn’t as good as you are making him out to be. The guy was able to dominate in a contract year in the weakest offensive division in baseball. But I don’t know, maybe Lowe is a freak of nature who gets better going into his last 30s, who will be a great FA signing here with his poor K rates and a BB rate that just keeps getting better

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 3, 2009 7:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, a contract year!

My bad.

I forgot to discount his performance based on that.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Because players never

work a bit harder when they see the dollar signs around the corner…

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 12:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No he wasn't

At the age of 36, he had his second best year as a starter according to ERA+. His TRA+ was his best since 2003 (can’t find it before then so don’t know if 2002 was better). Also excluding 2002, it was his best year according to DERA and NRA. It was his best year as a starter according to FIP and xFIP. Last year, Lowe had a career best BB rate and his second highest K rate as a starter. He had a HR/9 rate that was his third best as a starter (.02 HR/9 worse than his second best season). Not surprising, his HR/FB ratio was his second lowest as a starter. But I’m sure that at the age of 36, there is nothing strange about any of this type of information. Who knows, maybe he just started taking steroids.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 3:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, about the age thing

Being 35 years old, it is clear he is still in his prime. And the steroids thing isn’t an allegation. If you think Lowe has found the fountain of youth and can do what he did last year for at least 3 more years if he pitched here, then its either magic or drugs. I don’t think either is the case and he won’t be repeating his 2008.

And why do I mention only 2008? Because you mentioned how he was being just as efficient in his 3 years prior despite that not being anywhere near true. Use whatever pitching metric you would like, take into account his defense or don’t, whatever. Last year was easily the best year of his career outside of 2002.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lowe’s tRA in four years with the Dodgers; (league-tRA in parenthesis) – FIP

* 3.99 (4.58) – 4.10
* 4.02 (5.07) – 3.72
* 4.08 (4.99) – 3.97
* 3.24 (4.77) – 3.23

Most of those number are right at 4 or better. That’s pretty efficient.

by oc on Jan 4, 2009 11:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Its like talking to a brick wall

Which year sticks out to you? There are 3 years that are around 4 or slightly better and then there is one year that is just a bit better then 3.25. That’s a pretty significant difference. You said this:

He was just as efficient in the three seasons leading up to his contract year.

Stop being lazy.

You were proven wrong on this, proved yourself wrong on this, and still don’t quite understand apparently.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 11:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Me: tRA’s of 3.99, 4.02, and 4.08 are good.

You: a tRA of 3.25 is better

Me: a tRA of 3.99, 4.02 and 4.08 is still good.

You: Your wrong. He takes steroids.

by oc on Jan 4, 2009 11:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

because that’s what I said, he takes steroids.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 5, 2009 12:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

whatever

I don’t want to the Rangers to sign him. You obviously do and have faith that those tRAs are going to translate pretty well over here. I don’t see how that would happen and furthermore, I don’t see how his ERA won’t be south of this tRAs due to the IF defense being this bad.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 5, 2009 12:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And is the AL going to lose the DH position all of a sudden?

And is the IF defense going to lose Young? If not, then the defense still isn’t going to be as good as the Dodgers have had and the competition against Lowe will be much better.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 5, 2009 1:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why do people still believe

that players are better in their contract years? It’s a myth.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 4, 2009 5:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

People believe it

because for a lot of players, its true. When the players start seeing how much money they could get as a FA, they’ll work out harder between starts, stay in better shape, not take plays off, etc. Its not a myth. It just doesn’t always apply to everyone.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Adrian Beltre

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 4, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Trevor Hoffman

I want the Hoff.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 3, 2009 3:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

For a year, maybe two?

I’d rather hoard that money towards an offer for Sheets.

Aikman and Bradshaw?

Please. They are in the same league as Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon as QBs who were taken to the SB by great Defenses and great Running Games.
-DJCahill

by SarasotaRanger on Jan 3, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Hoff?

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 3, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 3, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OT

amazing catch by fitzgerald.
thats what a receiver that can actually catch whats thrown to him looks like

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 3, 2009 3:48 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

He's

The best in the league.

by brettgardner on Jan 3, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Steve Smith?

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 4, 2009 1:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That was a good game.

Edge was runnin’ like a madman…and don’t slap me for it, but I still love Warner, nice to see him work his way back.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 3, 2009 7:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

warner

never was much of a fan of his.
not saying he isn’t good but damn it’s a lot easier to look great when you have the kind of receivers he’s had

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 3, 2009 7:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And Troy,

and Peyton, etc. I understand your point, but every great/really good QB has to have a stud receiver or two, almost by definition.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 3, 2009 7:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

but damn he’s had some good receivers.
again not saying he isn’t good, hell the guy managed to not get sacked at all.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 3, 2009 7:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, ouch!

And LT’s injury…a detached tendon that attaches to the pubic bone…that musta been some wild sex, mon!

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 3, 2009 7:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh hell!

And he promptly rips off 15 yards…

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 3, 2009 7:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And he scores.

This might be a game after all. Like Vegas isn’t hurting enough from tha Cards win, haha!

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 3, 2009 7:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

super bowl

you know i’d love to see a miami vs arizona superbowl.
arizona is the team i’m pulling for though.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 3, 2009 8:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone but Manning.

Please.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 3, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If its a Manning vs. Manning Super Bowl

That loud scream you’ll hear will be mine right before I jump off a bridge…

In Smoak We Trust

by Smoak Some on Jan 3, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

manning

i dont think miles’ computer can handle another eli manning super bowl

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 3, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Rodney's right.

It’s not a valid criticism. You have to look at the particular skill set. I said it in another thread, but he is one of the best QBs of the last decade when he has time, which is key, and which knocks him down from the Hall for me.

But man, just watch the touch he has. He has Jason Kidd-like vision and touch.

by brettgardner on Jan 3, 2009 7:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Edge is so fresh and so clean

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 3, 2009 7:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

.....a Ho quality to him, a certain Ho-ness

nice.

t ball on MY - "hate the contract, don't hate the player"

by bspate on Jan 3, 2009 4:40 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

I’m thinking the Rangers are going to go into camp content with what they already have, but since I’m bored right now…

In a perfect world this is what I would do:

1) Sign Sheets to a 2 year deal with a team option.
2) Deal Millwood and Padilla for a couple decent prospects.
3) Sign Burrell to a 1 year deal.
3) Unload Cat.
4) Deal Murphy and Blalock to the Rays for Sonnanstine and a prospect.
5) Sign a veteran lefty for the ‘pen.
6) Wait ’til the last minute and then deal Salty for Bowden and Hagadone since Theo won’t budge on Buchholz.

I don’t think they will happen, but I think all of those are realistic possibilities. Which leaves…

Rotation:

1) Sheets
2) Sonnanstine
3) Harrison
3) McCarthy
5) Bowden

’Pen:

Feldman
Nippert
Rupe
Benoit
BGL
Veteran Lefty
Fx2

Lineup:

1) Kinsler 2B
2) Young SS
3) Hamilton LF
4) Burrell DH
5) Davis 1B
6) Cruz RF
7) Byrd CF
8) Teagarden CA
9) Duran 3B

Bench:

Boggs
Metcalf
Arias
Veteran catcher

What is odd about this is that the Rangers would go from a LH heavy lineup to only 2 LH bats. I wouldn’t mind Boggs splitting playing time with Byrd which would give them another LH option though.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jan 3, 2009 8:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

If the Rangers are able...

to get those 3 pitchers (Sheets, Sonnanstine, Bowden) I’d let Hurley have a couple more months in OKC since he didn’t exactly tear up AAA last year. He can come up when McCarthy gets hurt.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jan 3, 2009 9:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What did you do with Hank?

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 8:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ahh gotcha

I must have skimmed over Hanks name. Just saw Murphy.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 8:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not so sure about that...

Murphy has more value than you think right now and the Rays are deep in starting pitching.

They could use a couple LH bats and another OFer.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jan 3, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately, Murphy and Blalock will barely get won’t come anywhere within shouting distance of getting you Sonnanstine.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why would they want to deal a good young cheap pitcher?

To clear room for who? Neimman and Wade Davis?

Hell no.

They’re trying to win now and Sonnanstine is good now. Why mess with a Kazmir/Shields/Garza/Price/Sonnanstine starting 5?

He goes freaking nowhere unless they’re bowled over.

And Blalock and Murphy ain’t bowling anybody over for Sonnanstine.

Seriously, it’d get you laughed at.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 9:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You also left out Hellickson.

Fact remains: the Rays have pitching to deal.

Would Nelson Cruz and Hank Blalock get you Sonnanstine?

by oc on Jan 3, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe that might do it.

Depending on how high they were on Nelson Cruz.

Man, I’d hate to deal Nelly right now. If he goes somewhere else and proceeds to prove last year wasn’t a fluke, I think that’d be the straw that break JD’s back.

by thedirkatron on Jan 3, 2009 9:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

Even with the number of years/chances he’s had?

by brettgardner on Jan 3, 2009 9:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that would be the straw that broke JDs back

If Cruz got you Sonnanstine then no matter how good Cruz did it would be a success. Cruz doesn’t have a long term place with this club. Hamilton is moving to RF probably in 2010 for good. We have plenty of LF/4th OF types and Borbon will be in CF. Trading Cruz right now would be a great mkove before he has a chance to regress back to his old self. I hope he doesn’t and helps us out but if trading him meant getting a guy like Sonnanstine you have to do that in a heartbeat and not look back

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 9:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Cruz doesn’t have a long term place with this club.

I wish more people would realize this.

Why does a non-contending year make any difference?

We all seem to agree that he’ll either turn a corner, or resort back to his old self.

Is it worth the gamble when we already have replacement options?

Sell high.

by oc on Jan 3, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You really think

Other teams are going to buy into him now?

by brettgardner on Jan 3, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

After the year he had last year

yeah I do.

Could his value increase if he comes out and shows he has actually turned a corner? Yeah it could

Could his value tank and force us to DFA him and get absolutely nothing in return? Yeah the chance of that happening is just as good as him showing up and being good.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You really think...

…that trading him now is selling him high?

If he turns a corner in 2009, wouldn’t we be selling high then, after the season?

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 3, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Heh.

I think that means they assume he won’t actually be as good as those combined numbers suggest.

by brettgardner on Jan 3, 2009 9:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he will be, either

But then, I don’t think you’ll be getting value in return for him equivalent to what a player with those numbers would bring.

I don’t see that there’s that strong a trade market for him right now. Basically, you trade him now if you don’t think he’ll hit this year. If you think he’ll even put up an 800 OPS, you hang onto him.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 3, 2009 10:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

You are saying we need to sell high. The question is whether we would really be selling high or not.

IF he flames out again, yes we would. IF he does well, then no, we wouldn’t be.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 3, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure why you are forecasting that serious of injuries for him

And do you really think there is that much of a market for a guy like him now?

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 12:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Adam,

if your life depended on it, what numbers do you think Cruz is most likely to put up in 2009?

Option 1: 27 HR/110 RBI .290/.352/.480

Option 2: 34 HR/ 119 RBI .302/.365/.525

Option 3: 16 HR / 69 RBI .282/.320/.450

Those are the only 3 options you get .

If my life depended on it… I say Option 3.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 4, 2009 10:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Incidentally...

Option 3 is almost dead on what David Murphy did last year. And you know how great people think David Murphy is.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 4, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd take

option 1 with a few hot streaks and a fade late. The OF defense should be alright this year.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 4, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Murphy Comp is exactly

where I was going.

Murphy had nearly an .900 OPS at the end of the 2007 season.

Maybe Cruz can sustain it for an entire year but he’s defying most MLB history to do so.

Lots of physical ability but I don’t think he’s a very smart player.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 4, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The main difference...

….between Murphy and Cruz, fwiw, is one has a minor league track record that suggests that they are a 4th outfielder, at best, and one has a minor league track record that suggests they are an impact middle of the order bat.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 4, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So a .770 OPS

with great defense isn’t good at all in your opinion? And that’s being very conservative with your prediction for what type of numbers he’ll put up next year.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 4, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nelson Cruz doesn't play

“great defense.”

He takes misguided routes to fly balls and routinely overthrows bases and cut-off men.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 5, 2009 8:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, he does.

It was very noticeable in both spring trainings I saw him and in his first two tours with the Rangers. Last year I didn’t notice as many mistakes so maybe he is improving but only a mindless cheerleader would call his defense “great.”

Roberto Clemente, Willie Mays, Ken Griffey Jr., Willie Davis, Dwight Evans, Paul Blair, Ichiro, THunter, Jim Edmonds, Mike Cameron were or are still great defensive OF’s.

Nelson Cruz is not a “great” defensive OF.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 5, 2009 9:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well the stats don't show that

Other than the scouting reports that he is a great defensive player, UZR shows him as a great defensive player at LF or RF.

But I’m sure your eyes don’t lie and you are a better judge of talent than scouts and stats

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 5, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Corner OF

Steve, who do you think are our long-term Corner outfielders, I am assuming Hamilton is one..

by peachygbc_1 on Jan 3, 2009 9:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yep

Hamilton in RF and until Engel Beltre comes around then a hodgepodge of Murphy, Boggs, Golson, or someone else in LF

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 10:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Never said he didn't

Just wouldn’t want him out there everyday

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 10:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But is his defense that much better than Murphys?

Enough to offset the difference in offense that Murphy gives you? I don’t think it is.

Like I said a platoon would be ideal with Murphy against RHP and Boggs against LHP

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 3, 2009 11:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok...

I think you are putting too much value into Sonnanstine here, he’s a pretty good pitcher but he has a MLB ERA of 5 and a WHIP of about 1 1/4 in two seasons. He had a good ’08, but I think he has to show he can do it consistently.

I also think that other teams value Murphy far more than you and I do.

I’m not great at putting trade scenarios together though, perhaps I’m way off base here.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jan 3, 2009 9:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well

1. Might happen, 2 yrs max.
2. I would be surprised if both were dealt before the season.
3. I agree on Burrell. Cat would probably just have to be released.
4. The Rays traded Jackson. I don’t think they are going to trade another SP.
5. I expect JD to sign Guardado.
6. Why wait?

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 3, 2009 9:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sonnanstine

They’re not going to make that deal even without the prospect, come on.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 4, 2009 5:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs