BATTING FOURTH... RIGHTFIELDER... NELSON CRUZ?

Less Caps.

"Obama is a Christian - He's always been a Christian...But.........what if he is[a Muslim]? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no, that's not America." Colin Powell on Obama/Muslim assertions.

by AirJordan on Jan 6, 2009 7:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

MoRe cApS!

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 7, 2009 5:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

BE NICE.

;)

"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."

- The Huntressatron

by Chase Irwin on Jan 7, 2009 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I was only 50%

on board…

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 8, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think his performance

will set the tone for the rest of the year.

Either we’re set offensively and rolling full force.

or

we’re “oh shittin” looking for that cleanup guy the rest of the way.

Freddie King rules faces.

by Ryin A on Jan 6, 2009 7:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

btw

rec for the airbrushed goat.

Freddie King rules faces.

by Ryin A on Jan 6, 2009 7:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

1-2-3

The crew is called OBP…

And if you want to get to the tip top…

Stop the violence in hip hop, Y-O

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 6, 2009 7:52 PM CST reply actions 4 recs

my dreams

"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...

by ivysafety39 on Jan 6, 2009 11:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What a scene!

What is that from? That is a must rental/purchase. :-)

Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!

by pbpsean on Jan 7, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know, but she has a vague resemblence to Eliza Dushku.

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

She has plus plus mechanics.

"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."

- The Huntressatron

by Chase Irwin on Jan 7, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not so sure...

I don’t think she is arching her back enough there.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jan 7, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My Scap

is loaded.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 7, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

11:14 Rachel Leigh Cook

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1200407/rachael_leigh_cook_in_11_14/

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jan 7, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The graveyard scene....

It will please you all to know that the “lucky” guy is about to have a large stone crush his skull. I guess that’s what you get for boning down (up, in this case?) on Rachael Leigh Cook in a graveyard.

Neftali Feliz is not a swimmer.

by NoNameOnCard on Jan 7, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Everyone has their price.

"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."

- The Huntressatron

by Chase Irwin on Jan 7, 2009 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

worth it

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jan 7, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Gerald Laird: One Man, 5 Scoops.

by Maximilian on Jan 7, 2009 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not a bad way to go if you think about it

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 7, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Better though

If you’re not thinking.

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 7, 2009 11:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

YOU WOULDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO THINK IF YOU WERE THINKING ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!!1

by oc on Jan 8, 2009 1:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, so technical question about this hot chick bouncing clip

If this fanpost is archived on LSB does she just keep screwing this guy in perpetuity?

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 8, 2009 9:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

BDP is so awesome

Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade

by ab03 on Jan 6, 2009 8:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

batting order

I have never understood why people feel the need to separate two powerful lefties in the lineup, especially if they have pretty even splits, like Hambone, and it looks like CD as well.

Very few teams have a lefty closer, and I don’t think there are many lefty specialists so fearsome that you build your lineup to avoid them facing your two best hitters in one of their at bats. Most starters are RH, our ballpark favors LHB, so why build your lineup just to avoid having your sluggers face Ron Mahay or someone of that ilk in the 6th or 7th inning?

I’d bat Hambone third and Davis fourth.

"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM

by tricer on Jan 6, 2009 7:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Same

then use the lefty excuse anyway to tell blalock why hes hitting 6th instead of 5th.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Jan 6, 2009 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

Most teams have a lefty specialist who they will bring in in that situation. Setting up two lefty hitters back to back like that simply makes the job of the other team’s manager easier by allowing him to bring in a Brian Shouse or a Ray King (if he’s still in the league) to face two of your best hitters without having to deal with the wrong side of the platoon advantage.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 6, 2009 8:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the 3 and 4 hole hitters are going to get 4 or 5 plate appearances in a game. Are Brian Shouse and Ray King so fearsome that you set up your lineup with them in mind? And ignore the advantage that your middle lineup would enjoy for the other 3 or 4 plate appearances?

"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM

by tricer on Jan 6, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

Chip?

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 6, 2009 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Particularly given that you aren’t talking about that much of advantage that your middle lineup would get by having them hit 3-4 with player X 5 instead of 3-5 with player X 4. It makes you very vulnerable to teams that have a good lefty or two (and almost every pen now has a couple of lefties in it), and almost ensures that, late in a close game, those guys aren’t going to face a righthander.

That’s part of the problem Philly had with scoring runs in the playoffs (although they overcame it)…Ryan Howard and Chase Utley were hitting next to each other, and it allowed the opposing team to just roll out a lefty from about the 6th inning on to face those two.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 6, 2009 8:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice rebuttal.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 6, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You know another thing to add to your point

(Even though I think we could roll with back-to-back lefties in the middle of the order if we had to and be okay for awhile)

The Angels just signed one of the better left-handed closers in baseball in Brian Fuentes.

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 6, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That first sentence doesn’t make sense to me. If the handedness of the batter vs. pitcher isn’t that big of an advantage, then why are we having this discussion?

At least 2/3 of plate appearances are against RHP, so I’m asking why set your lineup based on one AB that may or may not ever take place against a decent lefty reliever in the sixth or seventh inning?

I understand that if you have similar caliber RH and LH hitters it is beneficial to alternate them, but in a case where the team’s two best middle order bats are both lefty, then slot them there and fill in the rest of the lineup accordingly.

"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM

by tricer on Jan 6, 2009 8:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

x

That first sentence doesn’t make sense to me. If the handedness of the batter vs. pitcher isn’t that big of an advantage, then why are we having this discussion?

This sentence:

Particularly given that you aren’t talking about that much of advantage that your middle lineup would get by having them hit 3-4 with player X 5 instead of 3-5 with player X 4.

Has nothing to do with handedness. It has to do with the relative abilities of the hypothetical 4th and 5th hitters.

Now, if we are talking about moving a great hitter from 4 to 5 in order to make room for Travis Metcalf in the cleanup slot, that’s one thing. But the marginal advantage between the two hitters isn’t likely going to be all that great, and the majority of the time, they are still going to get the same number of plate appearances.

You are going to have the #4 hitter get a plate appearance the #5 hitter won’t about once every 9 games. So the argument in favor of that is that you’d get an extra 17-18 times at the plate every season. Assuming you’ve got a decent, but not huge, marginal difference between the two players, that’s a run or two over the course of a season.

On the other hand, having two lefties at 3-4, versus going L-R-L, is going to impact the majority of games that are close in the late innings. With, for example, Chase Utley and Ryan Howard going 3-4 (for example), the opposing manager is pretty much automatically going to go to the bullpen and get a lefty for those two batters, then go back to a righty reliever from there on out. You are simplifying the game for him by conceding the platoon advantage in almost any non-9th-inning-save-situation late in the game, and almost ensuring your two big gun lefties are going to have to face a lefty in crucial situations.

This is even more important when you consider that relievers often have sharper platoon splits than starters…and particularly lefty relievers. The advantage you get by having a good RH bat in between your two strong lefties, which allows your righty a chance to go after a lefty specialist who probably isn’t that good against right handed hitters, or force the other team to walk him intentionally, or maybe prevent the other team from going to the lefthander in the first place, is significant.

More significant, I think, than any slight advantage in getting your better lefty a few more plate appearances by hitting him 4th instead of 5th.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 6, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs

ok, I understand what you were saying much better now

And you have me rethinking my position.

But in the case of the Rangers, I think with two outs in the ninth inning, I’d rather have Davis at the plate than Cruz, regardless of the pitcher because I think CD is quite a bit better. So I still think that with the talent currently on our roster, I’d bat Hambone-Davis in the 3 and 4 holes.

Also, I really hope that Max can take over the cleanup spot at some point next season.

"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM

by tricer on Jan 6, 2009 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One other issue

It is more of an issue when you are going lefty-lefty than righty-righty in part because lefties generally fare worse against lefties than righties do against righties.

I found this blog post that goes through the historical splits. From 1980-1999, righties had an OPS 40 points higher against LHPs than against RHPs. Lefty hitters had an OPS 62 points higher against RHPs than against LHPs.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 6, 2009 9:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And I would suspect...

…those numbers have gotten more dramatic in the last decade, as the use of LOOGYs has become more prominent.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 6, 2009 9:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I get

warm and fuzzy when I hear facts, common sense and logic.

I have nothing to say

by rldwb on Jan 6, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It can be a little overwhelming at times.

"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."

- The Huntressatron

by Chase Irwin on Jan 6, 2009 11:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't really matter

Freakin’ Wash will just end up pinch hitting German Duran for Davis anyway.

by robert_d_wilfong on Jan 6, 2009 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that would be something

Davis was actually better against LHP than RHP in both Texas and OKC last year. Blalock was actually better (had a higher OPS) against LHP than RHP too.

by mjh on Jan 7, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lineup

Well if you figure late in games teams will use their closers which usually get everybody out regardless of which side of the plate they hit from. And early on (first at bat) batters are generally getting in rhythm with a pitcher and are at a disadvantage. That leaves you with 2 or 3 ABs where you are even or you have an advantage. If 1 or 2 of those get taken away by a specialist then you are only a true threat once a game. Thats not good now is it

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 6, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hamilton in second in the lineup

Why not just put Hamilton second and Young third? You’ll get less RBI opportunities for Hamilton in each first inning, but you put your best 4 hitters in r-l-r-l combination.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Jan 7, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Young isn't one of your 4 best hitters

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

May be next year.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 7, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That would be bad

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2009 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So if he was .331/.385/.513

That would be bad?

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 7, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Now, I know his slugging likely won't return to that level

But I do see a strong bounce back season. My guess.. .320/.365/.460. So would that be bad?

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 7, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that's unlikely

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Guess we'll see.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 7, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You think he will repeat something similar to this year?

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 7, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

MY may hit 300

but he has been on the decline for a few years now. Because he was injured last year, doesn’t mean he is going to bounce back in performance. Age and injuries usually increase, so I would expect more of the same.

I hope he hits like he has shown in the past but we’ll see. he has to be motivated to work though. why would he work that hard for a team in rebuilding mode, especially when he is already getting paid..

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 7, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

why would he work that hard for a team in rebuilding mode, especially when he is already getting paid..

That’s stupid.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 7, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's at least the second best right handed hitter

unless Cruz passes him up.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Jan 7, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I dont think batting order effects a hitter much

You can say they are pitched too more carefully high in the order and its more difficult, or you can say they have a threat behind them instead of the 9 hole hitter and will get better pitchers.

Cruz’s sample sizes across the board are too small to look at it lineup spot by lineup spot even if I did care. The 19 at bats doing well in the 5th spot in 08 should be ignored but the 50 in 07 shouldnt? The answer is they should both be ignored.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Jan 6, 2009 7:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

If both should be ignored then why in bloody hell is Nelson Cruz batting clean-up?

by oc on Jan 6, 2009 8:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

who would you rather have there?

and I mean someone currently on the roster?

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 7, 2009 8:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Marlon Byrd

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that's certainly possible

However I think Cruz will put up a better line than Byrd.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 7, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Byrd has been the more proven commodity.

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ok

doesn’t change the fact that I think a 28 year old Cruz is more likely to put a better line than a 32? year old Byrd.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 7, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One usually has a better feeling about the player with a more proven track record, age withstanding.

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

usually

however Byrd could very well likely start his FOTF like decline this year. Who knows? IMO Cruz will be better.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 7, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I do

For one the hitter mentally must be in a different mindset in some spots in the order. A leadoff guy can’t be thinking about swinging for the fences everytime because we need him to get on base to set the table. Just like a cleanup hitter shouldn’t be looking to lay a bunt down just because the 3rd baseman is playing deep at 3rd. The bottom of the order naturally has less stress placed upon them.

Then factor in how a pitcher approaches the lineup and it magnifies everything. The pitcher wants to get the leadoff guys out to prevent baserunners to be driven in. The heart of the order guys get pitched around because they can do alot of damage with one swing. The bottom of the order can get better pitches to hit because the pitcher usually is taking a mental break and doesn’t study that part of the orders tendancies as hard.

tell me if you were a pitcher facing last years Rangers would you spend equal time on all 9 batters or would you focus more time on Hamilton, Bradley, and Kinsler if it meant spending less time on say Cruz, Murphy, and Laird? I think you would.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 6, 2009 8:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This poll was stolen from Lookout Landing

You just changed “Wilkerson” to “Nelson”.

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 6, 2009 8:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

Baseball Jesus. This thread would be nothing without us knowing that.

"Obama is a Christian - He's always been a Christian...But.........what if he is[a Muslim]? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no, that's not America." Colin Powell on Obama/Muslim assertions.

by AirJordan on Jan 6, 2009 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

It still works.

by oc on Jan 6, 2009 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not saying it doesn't

Just that you ripped off my favorite poll of all time.

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 6, 2009 8:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There was supposed to be a smiley face at the bottom of that

So here:

;)

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 6, 2009 8:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

im not so sure.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Jan 6, 2009 8:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But a guy who's hit 22 career home runs get's his head attached to a missle.

by oc on Jan 6, 2009 8:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

22 or 500, it doesn't matter

Its all about the name.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 7, 2009 12:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Someone could put his head in this:

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 7, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Cruz...

Will most likely decide if this offense is just slightly above average or one of the best in the league.

by death of the cool on Jan 6, 2009 8:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I understand the concern...

but I think he deserves a shot in the 4 hole. I just don’t want lefties back-to-back in the middle of the lineup. Give him a couple months and let’s see what he can do.

I really hope he has figured it out.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jan 6, 2009 8:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

So what's the alternative if Cruz tanks?

If we need a RH’ed bat at cleanup, how about Kinsler at cleanup? Kinsler can hit for average and power like a cleanup hitter should. Seems to me he’s on the verge of becoming another Chase Utley hitting-wise but with more speed, and Utley hits 3rd on the Phils. Would be nice to have a #3-spot-quality hitter at the the cleanup spot behind Hammy.

Kinsler has a ton of value as a leadoff hitter, so who on the team could adequately replace him there?

Byrd racked up the 2nd-highest OBP last year on the team (.380), had a decent BB:PA ratio (1:10), hit righties to the tune of .308 – a better BA then he put up against LH’ers (.277), and can run. The last time he hit leadoff full-time was with the Phillies in ‘03 when he was moved to the spot from the 8th-spot midway through the season, and he proceeded to hit .319 and put up a .374 OBP the rest of the way. Granted that was a while ago, but he seems to be experiencing a resurgence late in his career and his hitting the past two seasons is reminiscent of his minor-league days, maybe not of his Reading ’01 season but of the two seasons surrounding it. Byrd’s career numbers out of the leadoff spot: 638 PA’s, .280 BA, .346 OBP, 6 triples., etc. Not bad and remember he seems to be getting better with age and the more exposure he gets.

Basically, Byrd gets on base, hits both righties and lefties equally well and therefore could be a viable full-time player, and runs well. If he can hit .300 like he has over the past couple of seasons while hitting mostly 5th or 6th, imagine what he could if he gets 600+ PA’s in the leadoff spot in front of Young, Hammy, Kinsler et al.

"I lost my virginity but I still have the box it came in."
- Unknown

by Rangerchick on Jan 6, 2009 9:03 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

If Cruz tanks?

Probably Byrd.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 6, 2009 9:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would think

That Cruz will get most of the first half to prove himself (not batting cleanup the whole time, but in general) and if he tanks, we’ll see MaxRam at DH in the second half (assuming they can get rid of Hank, that is)>

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 6, 2009 9:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mike Sweeney?

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 6, 2009 9:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My opinion

On Cruz is already boringly well known. The thing I think will be of benefit, is that few if any will work around or walk Josh Hamilton to face Cruz. And if Davis gets and stays hot, he should move up to 5th. Not Bash Brothers, more like Torque Triplets.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Jan 7, 2009 12:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

All Nelson Cruz proves

is that I was right about him and AJM was wrong.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jan 6, 2009 9:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."

- The Huntressatron

by Chase Irwin on Jan 6, 2009 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nelson Cruz has proven 2 things so far

Jack.

Shit.

Nah, noob.

by Brian Thomas on Jan 7, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

your BA for the 7th spot are in the wrong columns

probably OBP as well.

Thanks for putting this together though. Nice info

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 7, 2009 4:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Corrected. Thank you for pointing this out.

Only the AVG. numbers were misplaced. The OBP. figures are still correct. As are the rest of the tables.

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I say sign dunn and abreu

have Davis play 3rd and put a lineup of almost all lefties just for the heck of it

We would have to trade young and kinsler for a lefthanded hitting SS and 2B to fill the lineup completely with lefties

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 7, 2009 5:07 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Anyone

with a Krang avatar gets a rec from me.

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Jan 7, 2009 9:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

how do you know hes gonna bat fourth?

by Stevoo on Jan 7, 2009 3:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I can see the future.

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because Wash said so!

Baseball Time in Arlington

by Joey Matschulat on Jan 7, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And that's the bottom line...

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 7, 2009 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's some other interesting facts I dug up from Cruz's small-sample 2008...

Multi-hit games: 10
Games without a hit: 8

The quality of pitchers faced in his multi-hit games is pretty puny when compared to those he faced in the games where he did not record a hit.

Multi-hit games:

KC – Gil Meche
LAA – John Lackey
SEA – Ryan Feierabend
BOS – Chris Smith / Mike Timlin / David Pauley
BOS – Paul Byrd / Chris Smith
OAK – Dana Eveland / Huston Street
LAA – Jon Garland / Darren Oliver / Scott Shields
OAK – Josh Outman
OAK – Dana Eveland / Dan Meyer
LAA – John Lackey / Shane Loux / Jason Bulger

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 3:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Correction:

OAK – Josh Outman

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This actually shouldn't be bold.

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's puny?

He faced Lackey twice, Meche, Shields, Street, Oliver. Those guys aren’t exactly bad. Even guys like Eveland, Byrd, and Garland are average.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 7, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lackey had a tRA of 5.15.

That’s not very impressive considering he missed the first two months of the season.

Just like Garland and Saunders… that was one flukey-ass season he put up.

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lackey still had an ERA+ of 119 last season

and has been a great pitcher for the past few years. He’s not exactly some scrub pitcher. He had an ERA of 3.25 with a .248/.302/.413 line against him before that last game against Texas where he couldn’t pitch a full 3 innings and gave up 10 runs on 12 hits and a walk (raised his season ERA from 3.25 to 3.75).

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 7, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Even guys like Eveland, Byrd, and Garland are average.

The lowest 2008 tRA output of those three is 5.33.

That’s ‘Ranger’ bad, not average.

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you are not using tRA correctly

Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade

by ab03 on Jan 7, 2009 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Enlighten me.

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's a rather weak argument to say that Nelson Cruz's September meant very little considering he was facing craptastic pitchers.

But if you had to, how would you go about your evaluations?

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Games without a hit:

KC – Zach Greinke
KC – Brian Bannister / Kip Wells
LAA – Jon Garland
LAA – Ervin Santana
SEA – Felix Hernandez
OAK – Greg Smith / Jeff Gray
LAA – Dustin Moseley / Justin Speier / Jason Bulger
LAA – John Lackey / Jose Arrendondo / Jason Bulger

Not sure this means anything, but, in a meaningless September, it’s easy to pad your stats against weaker competition.

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 3:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not sure that means anything

You could probably make a similar charge for almost any player, and at almost any time of year. Good hitters beat up on weaker pitching, and have a harder time against really good pitching.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 7, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not too proud of this research.

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Though, you could make the case that you probably won't see guys like Shane Loux, Dan Meyer, Ryan Feierabend and David Pauley until September.

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Chris Smith also.

These guys are September roster depth.

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One thing I don't understand......

People that say Nelson Cruz is not part of the future of this team. They say that he will either regress and be let go (which is a possibility) or if he gets it should be traded for pitching. We control him for a while very cheap. If he gets it like he did last year (yeah yeah, small sample, small sample), why would you trade someone like that when you control them for a while at an inexpensive rate? I’m in favor of playing Byrd too, because he’s effective. If we are somehow in it at the deadline, we keep him and get a draft pick after this season (which does contribute to our future) unless you are not a fan of the Mains of the world. If we aren’t in it, we can trade him for, hopefully, a Max Ramirez type haul. Byrd may not be a part of our future, but he can help it. There is no need to play Boggs at the ML level right now when he can get more seasoning at AAA and we have 4 other capable OFs. Sorry to rant, feel free to bash me.

by CS3 on Jan 7, 2009 5:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

x

why would you trade someone like that when you control them for a while at an inexpensive rate?

Because he’s a right fielder, and Josh Hamilton will be moving to RF in the next year or two.

And if he does well, he’s a very attractive trade chip to help bring you a pitcher.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2009 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nelson Cruz isn’t an attractive trade chip.

People are getting carried away by Nelson Cruz.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 7, 2009 8:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

key phrase: "And if he does well"

If cruz does well next season after being a monster in AAA and in september in the mlb, he’d have to have some trade value.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Jan 7, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If he has a strong first half...

…he’s an attractive trade chip…

If he doesn’t, he’s not going to stick in the lineup.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 7, 2009 9:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I just don't agree

He’s a career enigma (to put it kindly), and he’ll be 29 in about 6 months, so we’re talking about what people will pay for his decline phase.

Maybe he’s another Ryan Ludwick, whose trade value isn’t clear even now. That’s the absolute best case.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 7, 2009 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He probably won't headline a deal

But he could be a very nice piece of a package for someone. Including him in a package could keep you from including a young pitcher

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 7, 2009 9:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that sounds about right

Ludwick just put up a monster season and I doubt he would still get you that good of a pitcher in a trade. He’s still cheap and under control for a while longer. Pena is also a guy that kind of compares to Cruz. Maybe after 2 great seasons, he’ll be able to get something good back in a trade, but its tough to see someone give us a guy that is better than a number 4, maybe a decent number 3, starting pitcher.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 7, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ludwick

He did pretty well cleaning up after the arguably the best hitter in baseball.

by oc on Jan 7, 2009 10:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Luds also had/has

pretty serious injury concerns, while Nellie is a fine, strapping young man, able to make women loose clothing with just a dashing glance here or there.

You really don’t want to see him smile at your wife/gf…

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 8, 2009 7:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well I can think of some women

I’d like for him to smile at when I’m nearby.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 8, 2009 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ludwick's minor league track record...

…and “tools” aren’t as good as Cruz.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 9, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thought experiment

Would people pay more for Cruz with ~ a 300/360/500 line in July 2009 than they would for him in July 2006?

I don’t know how I fall but there’s not a huge difference difference in value there.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 9, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why wouldn't they

if he’s putting up that line at the major league level with good defense? And he’s cheap, too. He obviously wouldn’t bring a Teixeira-like package, but right now teams value that combo of good defense, good offense, and low salary.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 9, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cruz

He works well in Texas because the expectations are low. He can fail here, at the ML level.

Another team dealing for him suggests need. He’s too risky for a serious role on a contender.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 9, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok but if he has that line in JULY

he looks like someone who’s figured it out, not a crap shoot. If he has that line in July he’s been consistently good at all levels for long enough that he won’t be viewed as a much of a risk.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 9, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But Ludwick so far

has put one full great season to follow a pretty impressive 120 game season (though he only got something like 330 PAs). Nelson Cruz has failed in 2 long stints at the Majors and had one great month in 2008. I don’t see how an extra half season next year is going to make some team be willing to give up any great pitcher for Cruz in a trade.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 9, 2009 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

but.....

Do you think people will actually give up anything of significane for Cruz if he performs ok for 3 or 4 months? If he’s performing well enough to where people are interested they still probably aren’t giving back alot to make it a good deal. At that point, if he is worth more than he is bringing back, why rush to trade him? Can either he or Hamilton not play LF? Byrd will be gone after next year so there should be another COF available, unless Murphy comes around (relax Dirk, I said if), so it wouldn’t be a bad thing if he found it and we kept him

by CS3 on Jan 8, 2009 12:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cruz and LF

To me Cruz doesn’t look like he would be a good fit in LF. He just doesn’t pass the eyeball test. We haven’t heard anything about him getting time in LF in winter ball and no talk of him working there this spring so until we either see that or hear from Rangers brass then I doubt he would get any significant playing time out there. And thats a shame because if he can’t or won’t play LF then he will probably only play about 100-120 games max next year. I think Hamilton will play 40-60 games in RF as we try and keep him fresh for the entire season.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 8, 2009 8:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

enlighten me

on how he could play RF, but not LF?

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 8, 2009 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

RF

Like I said its purely based on watching him play. He doesn’t seem to have the acceleration that is needed in LF at TBiA. His arm would not be as big a weapon since it wouldn’t be needed as much. Part of the reason a RFs arm is so valuable is to keep guys from taking 3rd on singles. LFs don’t have to worry about that generally. Again its mainly just watching him that makes me uneasy puttin ghim in LF for any extended period of time.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 8, 2009 8:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree completely. I think he'd be fine out there.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 8, 2009 8:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with your disagreement.

I don’t have any idea how an OF could be plus defensively in one corner, and inadequate in the other corner. Consider the source.

Nellie would be just fine in either left or right.

"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM

by tricer on Jan 8, 2009 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Also,

there isn’t a lot of reason you couldn’t have Cruz in Right and Hamilton in LF.

Get off my lawn.

by DJCahill on Jan 8, 2009 9:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

It’s not like Cruz has a noodle arm.

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Jan 8, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

His arm makes Chris Davis's look like a pop gun

Or something.

Baseball Time in Arlington

by Joey Matschulat on Jan 9, 2009 2:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

in the long run

Hamilton is probably better off healthwise in RF with a bit less running. Cruz has legs, good for Arlington’s LF.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 8, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree with agreeing about disagreeing about...

:-#….

Cruz has played CF in the minors recently, no? I am fairly confident he could handle LF, and the arm not being as big a weapon is just silly.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 8, 2009 7:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Its not that his arm will decrease or anything

Just the opportunities for his arm to be a weapon will decrease therefore diminishing that tools value. The only time a LFs arm really comes into play is on plays at the plate. While a good thing to have it isn’t really necessary. Yeah a few times a guy will try and take 2nd on a ball down the line that you get to quickly and you have a chance but that happens what a dozen times a year maybe?

In RF a guys arm comes into play alot more. Runner on first and a single to right, does the runner test the arm of the RF trying to get to 3rd? Double down the line in right that the RF misplays slightly, does the runner try and stretch it to a triple? Those happen quite often with the first example happening about once a game at least. In LF a guy on 1st almost always will stop at 2nd on a single to LF.

Personally I don’t think he has the speed or, more importantly, the acceleration to play LF. Like I said it is purely based on watching him and not any kind of stats based or scouting report based at all.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 8, 2009 7:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Hamilton is playing RF

then its not like we are sacrificing Cruz’s arm for nothing though. Hamilton has a cannon of an arm as well. So either way, you’re going to have to sacrifice some in putting one of those 2 at the COF spot.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 8, 2009 8:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think we need

another paragraph or 4 explaining his side of things before we can really determine that.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 8, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he's not getting traded

Either he performs well and the Rangers keep him as their righty masher or he doesn’t perform well and no one wants to trade for him. Instead, he’ll most likely be waived and sent to the minors if he can’t hack it this year.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Jan 8, 2009 8:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs