Friday morning stuff

okay,

so would Bowden and Bard be enough? They seem like bullpen pieces rather than future starters to me.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jan 9, 2009 8:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know that Bard really interests me. He is almost certainly a bullpen arm. While everyone loves a terrific 8th inning guy or potential closer, I’d prefer two options who can come in and help out our rotation for the next few years. Bowden and Hagadone would be enough. A righty and a lefty… and their two best pitching prospects (not counting Masterson and Buchholz).

I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.

by Haeger Champ on Jan 9, 2009 8:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If that's the offer

let’s keep all 3, leave Max in AAA for the time being and go with it. Hagadone had some injury issues IIRC, and Bowden isn’t anything to sell a potential franchise catcher for.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 9, 2009 8:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

franchise catcher?

chuckle…if he was that then Tea would be gone already and we wouldnt be having this discussion at all.

Rankings, Profiles, '09 Rosters

by Goyogringo on Jan 9, 2009 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not necessarily.

Tea might also be a franchise catcher. Given the different potential that each has, I certainly think it’s possible that you’re looking at two guys that will start at catcher somewhere for many years to come.

by Athos on Jan 9, 2009 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

oh i don't know

franchise means perennial all-star and I don’t really see either one turning into that kind of commodity

Rankings, Profiles, '09 Rosters

by Goyogringo on Jan 9, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure how you can say that...

All easily have perennial all-star potential….I think it’s somewhat likely 1 or more will be. That’s the problem in trading them for relievers. You’re better off holding on to them to see if one busts out this year and then keep that one and trade one of the others.

by slimshadty12 on Jan 9, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's absurd IMO

Rankings, Profiles, '09 Rosters

by Goyogringo on Jan 10, 2009 8:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I did say potential

did I not?

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 9, 2009 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yah, cause that makes total sense.

We traded Hafner and Agon, right?

Just because we seem to prefer Tea doesn’t mean that precludes Salty from being really, really good.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

So last Friday I’m at a bar. I take this guy home. He’s a little fat. Whatever, right? Plus, chubsters are so grateful, they usually try harder. Anyway, right in the middle of things, he’s sweating and grunting like a hairy rhino and I just start to hate myself. Really, really hate myself… So, without even thinking, I just head butt him right in the face. Bam. Clock him right between the eyes. Knock him out cold. So, that’s what I got. What you got going on?

by thedirkatron on Jan 9, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

thatk you dirk

well put. besides, has any1 looked around baseball outside of LA and Min. and Atl. most of the catchers in baseball suck, and they dont even kinda suck, they are barely service-able suck.

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 9, 2009 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bowden

He’s probably at a similar level to Harrison and Hurley, although some folks like him more than those two.

So if he’s a future bullpen piece, what does that say about Harrison and Hurley?

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 9, 2009 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They're underrated?

Or they’re all human and can’t be fit into a nice neat little “this is their future career” box? Honestly, comparing prospects is like speculating on stocks. Some have better peripherals than others, but that doesn’t mean they’re ultimately going to be better buys.

by Athos on Jan 9, 2009 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well put.

It’s always nice to have a comp. for players, but more times than not, they don’t end up close to that comp. when it’s all said and done.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Jan 9, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well probably future bullpen pieces AJM,

I mean we all want to see our two pitchers become better than that, but if not at least we control them for five years.

Now Bowden lets say becomes a bullpen piece and Salty a stud, then guys will never let that down. We need a sure fire SP if Salty or Tea is traded or else LSB will have a freakin cow.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jan 9, 2009 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You aren't going to get a sure fire SP for Salty or Teagarden

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 9, 2009 9:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why not AJM?

Isn’t that why we would trade either catcher. aIf that can’t be accomplished then no deal in my eyes.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jan 9, 2009 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why not?

Because I don’t think anyone is going to give you a sure fire SP for Salty or Teagarden.

Clay Buchholz certainly doesn’t fit in that category. There are very few guys who do. Either elite pitching prospects (i.e., David Price) or young guys who have established themselves (i.e., Matt Cain).

Unless you are willing to take someone older, more expensive and not under team control for as long.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 9, 2009 9:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

we have the best system in baseball

if we cant send a package (with as great as our system is) based around salty or TT (the 2 best catching prospects not named weiters) to get a #1 rotation type prospect, then i would think there is a serious case for collusion.

we have stud young catching coming out our ears, we have MY, we have Veteran Pitching in Millwood and Padzilla, we have the best system in baseball, and we cant get a #1 rotation pitching talent out of a trade?

WTF and I missing?

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 9, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Stop doing that

Putting “AJM” in the title of your comments. You replied so everyone knows who you’re talking to.

Pet peeve of mine. I dated a girl a few times and every time she was at my house, she’d always start every sentence off with my first name. “Look woman, I’m the only person here so of course you’re talking to me. Quit saying my name.” That was short lived.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 9, 2009 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs

Are you paying attention

Mr. Wales?

by Houston27 on Jan 9, 2009 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

heh…. That would be a beating of a relationship. Sort of a Seinfeld complex too.

by RangersOCD on Jan 9, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wyo Ranger,

oh well get over it. Nit pickers like you pet peeve me.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jan 9, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

oh man...

I get you on that. I once broke up with a girl because of the way she said, “really.” Over and over again. Sarcastically. When she was mad at me.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Jan 9, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I actually tend to enjoy it when a female comes over to my house and ends up saying my name over and over...

The 40 Trumps All!!!

So last Friday I’m at a bar. I take this guy home. He’s a little fat. Whatever, right? Plus, chubsters are so grateful, they usually try harder. Anyway, right in the middle of things, he’s sweating and grunting like a hairy rhino and I just start to hate myself. Really, really hate myself… So, without even thinking, I just head butt him right in the face. Bam. Clock him right between the eyes. Knock him out cold. So, that’s what I got. What you got going on?

by thedirkatron on Jan 9, 2009 7:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Your name is

Arf! Arf? ??

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Jan 9, 2009 8:19 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs

Lol

Hunter pwned by Ed.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 10, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

right not an ace at least

Rankings, Profiles, '09 Rosters

by Goyogringo on Jan 9, 2009 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

IIRC Bowden has much better minor league numbers than either Hurley or Harrison.

"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.

by OCD SS on Jan 9, 2009 9:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

my impression

is that Bowden is a pretty safe bet to be a 3/4 starter. Those are valuable, especially in Texas where we haven’t developed that type of young pitcher in the last decade or so. That type pitcher is probably a fair value for Salty, especially with a near ready bullpen arm with late inning potential.

My impression of Buchholz is that he will either be a 1/2 starter, or a closer, or a complete flame out. It either comes together and he lives up to his full potential, or it doesn’t and he is never a real contributor to a big league team.

I’m starting to think that this Buchholz or bust attitude might not be the wisest allocation of resources by Texas. If Salty gets sporadic playing time and continues to not hit and look like a butcher behind the plate, then getting a Bowden type pitcher for him next offseason will be a pipe dream.

"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM

by tricer on Jan 9, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

is that Bowden is a pretty safe bet to be a 3/4 starter.

My opinion is that he’s a safe bet to be that, and that he has the potential to be a #2 at best. Now whether or not he’ll reach that is an open question (as it is for all prospects, or even young players); but Bowden’s been consistently very young for each level he’s been at, so I think he has a bit more upside than someone like Ian Kennedy.

"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.

by OCD SS on Jan 9, 2009 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know about that

I have some pretty big doubts on Michael Bowden. I see the great stats he has put up, but every time he is mentioned, I just keep remembering how down Keith Law is on him and how the Rangers have refused him in a trade twice.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 9, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Harrison isn't equal to Hurley, so I have a hard time seeing how anyone could be equal to Harrison and Hurley.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

So last Friday I’m at a bar. I take this guy home. He’s a little fat. Whatever, right? Plus, chubsters are so grateful, they usually try harder. Anyway, right in the middle of things, he’s sweating and grunting like a hairy rhino and I just start to hate myself. Really, really hate myself… So, without even thinking, I just head butt him right in the face. Bam. Clock him right between the eyes. Knock him out cold. So, that’s what I got. What you got going on?

by thedirkatron on Jan 9, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They are

in terms of approximate value as they are thought of around the league. And I could just flip a coin on which I think will end up with the better career.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 9, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bowden is definitely a SP. All his pitches are about on the same level and he uses + command to mix them up to be effective, but he doesn’t have 1 or two dominate pitches that would play up out of the pen. I’m not sure, but I also haven’t seen reports that his FB velocity jumps that much if he comes out of the pen.

"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.

by OCD SS on Jan 9, 2009 9:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Keith Law said in a chat

he doesn’t see his fastball being any better in the bullpen than it is in the rotation.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 9, 2009 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bowden and Bard

I think it would be pretty risky to pass on that deal, if offered.

"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM

by tricer on Jan 9, 2009 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If they come to Texas with no prior injury history

and then suddenly break down, will you comment about their vagina-like status?

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 9, 2009 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

probably

especially if they avoid offseason conditioning workouts because he has a hurt finger. Basically, if they act like a vagina, then I’m likely to comment on it.

"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM

by tricer on Jan 9, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

heh

ok. at least you’re consistent, even though your vagina comments preceded anything to do with his finger and winter workouts.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 9, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Consider them

Tricer’s Vagina Monologues.

"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."

- The Huntressatron

by Chase Irwin on Jan 9, 2009 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs

Wreck it!

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 10, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

bowden and bard

i agree, that offer is tempting if it was made. If i’m daniels i hold out for a good throw in piece to go along with those two.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 9, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Smoltz- What a career,

I peg him as a future hall of famer, but I wish he would have finished his career in A-town. I don’t blame him because Boston has a decent shot at wining a world series, but it sucks to have such a great ball player leave his team after 20 years.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jan 9, 2009 8:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Buchholz not available?

When did that happen? Shocked, I am, by this startling revelation.

I guess that means Salty’s not available either.

Whee! This is fun!

by Athos on Jan 9, 2009 8:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

And round and around we go

This reminds me of Z’s post on Nathan Haynes and remembering how “unreasonable” the Rangers were with trading Teix. Whatever. If Boston thinks we’re unreasonable, someone else will find the Rangers more than reasonable.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 9, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Who will?

Boston’s our only real trading partner, and JD hasn’t spoken with them since the winter meetings.

Name one other team who could make a better offer for Salty.

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Florida

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 9, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

IIRC the offer they put on the table for Salty at the beginning of the offseason was rejected immediately and after that they turned their interest to Ramirez (perhaps with the idea that he’d cost less to obtain).

Plenty of teams can make a better offer for Salty. Which of them do yo think will?

"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.

by OCD SS on Jan 9, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Their offer for Salty...

…was Scott Olsen. He’s not good.

I don’t know who all would be out there willing and able.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 9, 2009 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Then I think Tucker and Hermida came up in separate rumors…

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 9, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tucker

I wouldn’t be mad if we got him.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jan 9, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

Boston has eight starters ahead of Bowden on their depth chart (Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Penny, Smoltz, Buchholz, and Masterson). Granted, Wakefield, Penny, and Smoltz aren’t longterm options, but Boston can comfortably trade Bowden without impacting the major league rotation.

Florida cannot. RIght now, they’re at Nolasco, Johnson, Volstad, Sanchez, and Miller in the rotation. In the minors, they don’t have a ton of high level pitching depth. Plus, they just drafted Kyle Skipworth with the #6 overall pick.

I’m not sure why Florida would trade pitching for Salty.

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They're more likely to trade for Max.

That said, we’re probably not going to squeeze a Nolasco, et al, out of them for just Max. That’s where it gets tricky. I don’t think we can complete a deal for one of those SP’s without throwing in a major piece of the farm (Holland, Feliz, possibly Davis, Main, etc.).

To be honest, the Giants may be a better trade partner than either Boston or Florida.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jan 9, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nolasco

They won’t trade him.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 9, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're probably right.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jan 9, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Giants just drafted Buster Posey

If we’re talking about a Salty trade, I think they’re out as well. They may try to acquire a catcher, but I don’t see why they should put their best trade commodities into acquiring a young catcher when they have so many more holes to fill.

I’m underwhelmed by a Bowden/Bard offer, but there simply aren’t any other teams in a position to match that offer.

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Posey...

Has no effect on what they do this offseason…they’re not going to wait a couple of years to do something when they’re trying to win now too.

by slimshadty12 on Jan 9, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think the Johnson signing proves that.

But by the same token, it doesn’t necessarily make them want to part with a good, young SP for something that they will have in a couple years anyway.

Does anyone know what their plans are with Bengie Molina? I really haven’t heard anything about him amidst all these rumors.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jan 9, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jan 9, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I saw that Tolan story yesterday

Makes me wonder if something has been left out. Seems pretty crazy for it to have escalated that quickly.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 9, 2009 8:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I have a job going about a block away

I am in the building business here, and my customer says the police officers on the scene really screwed the pooch on this one. She says that unfortunately it just happens to be one of the few black families in Bellaire and that profiling is exactly how this happened. Bellaire is very exclusive and the police are constantly on patrol through the neighborhoods here. If you don’t look like you belong you are almost certain to be stopped and checked out. It sucks for that family that an innocent young man in the prime of life appears to have been wrongly shot.

by spliffy on Jan 9, 2009 9:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well that's unfortunate

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 9, 2009 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get how the hell this went from

“what are you doing to my mom?” to emptying a round into the guy’s chest, though…if the guy was in cuffs, what the flip was he going to do, bite at the officer’s ankle? and if he wasn’t in cuffs, did he reach for something in his pants? if so, fine, fire a shot into the ground near him. my guess is this officer had a bad day, week, month…and was already looking for trouble. which is why they didn’t run the plates in the first place. if in fact they didn’t.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Jan 9, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i also dont get the profiling... doesnt it work both ways

if this really is an elite zone and there really never are any black people around, wouldnt you notice and know who the only black people that do live there?

like dave chappelle says

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 9, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Really strange

It’s one thing to have the cops pull someone out in a random parking lot if they think the vehicle is stolen, but they already knew where the vehicle was going since they were staked out in the driveway of the house so it wouldn’t be hard to run the plates.

And I found it a little amusing that AJM mentioned he lives near where the shooting took place and there’s this blurb:

Bellaire is a prominent, mostly white suburb in southwest Houston.

So I take it AJM isn’t hardcore like Miles.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 9, 2009 9:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

have you heard the podcasts

his voice doesnt exactly project a very ‘gangsta’ persona

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jan 9, 2009 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Haha.

If anybody is the family gangsta, it’s Ben.

by Athos on Jan 9, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tolan

This story is messed up. The Oakland story is also pretty horrific. An execution, basically.

"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley

by trza on Jan 9, 2009 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the video of that shit is nuts

the dude literally just puils out his gun and blasts a guy handcuffed and laying on the ground as he’s kneeling over him.

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 9, 2009 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I feel sorry for that transit officer.....

he’ll be dead pretty soon.

t ball on MY - "hate the contract, don't hate the player"

by bspate on Jan 9, 2009 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If not already.

"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."

- The Huntressatron

by Chase Irwin on Jan 9, 2009 7:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yah, I feel really sorry for him...

The 40 Trumps All!!!

So last Friday I’m at a bar. I take this guy home. He’s a little fat. Whatever, right? Plus, chubsters are so grateful, they usually try harder. Anyway, right in the middle of things, he’s sweating and grunting like a hairy rhino and I just start to hate myself. Really, really hate myself… So, without even thinking, I just head butt him right in the face. Bam. Clock him right between the eyes. Knock him out cold. So, that’s what I got. What you got going on?

by thedirkatron on Jan 9, 2009 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bah! It ate my " [/sarcasm]"

The 40 Trumps All!!!

So last Friday I’m at a bar. I take this guy home. He’s a little fat. Whatever, right? Plus, chubsters are so grateful, they usually try harder. Anyway, right in the middle of things, he’s sweating and grunting like a hairy rhino and I just start to hate myself. Really, really hate myself… So, without even thinking, I just head butt him right in the face. Bam. Clock him right between the eyes. Knock him out cold. So, that’s what I got. What you got going on?

by thedirkatron on Jan 9, 2009 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kudos to TCU

finishing 7th in both the AP and Coaches polls!

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Jan 9, 2009 10:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Why is there a coaches poll?

Does anyone really think that college head coaches pay enough attention to what goes on outside of their conference to have a meaningful opinion as to who the best team in the country is? Or the 12th best, versus the 13th best?

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 9, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, or like if a team beats another team...

Then the second team still goes ahead of the first team and gets hammered again?

Oh hell, everyone knows what I’m talking about.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jan 9, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

OU got hammered last night?

Really?

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 9, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Did you watch the same game I did AJM?

They never had a chance against that Florida D. Every time they had a chance it resulted in obvious failure.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jan 9, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

x

They never had a chance against that Florida D.

Didn’t they lose by just 10.

And didn’t they have a couple of first and goal situations in the first half where they didn’t score?

It wasn’t exactly a blowout. And if they don’t shoot themselves in the foot on those two first half goal to go possessions, they could have won.

And I’m not trying to make excuses for them. I just don’t know that you walk away from that game saying that OU got hammered.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 9, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah but Tebow spotted them 2 INTs

and still got it done.

honestly, one of the worst title games I’ve ever witnessed. I am utterly unimpressed with both teams, save for defense to some degree…

UTAH!!!

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Jan 9, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, fair enough.

Hammered isn’t the right word. But they were decidedly beaten. Florida was able to take advantage of every defensive opportunity they were given, some of which were put into play simply because of bone-headed throws by Tebow. I just never saw the Oklahoma team last night that I saw in the regular season. I can’t say that I ever thought at any point in the game that they could or would win. That just made me feel like it was rather one-sided.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jan 9, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The lack of bias

In this analysis is truly remarkable. Heh ……………

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Jan 9, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, the bias thing isn't funny.

Really, it’s just stupid. I’m being very objective here,

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jan 9, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

That staggers the imagination.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 9, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure

you think you’re being objective.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 9, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure you think you know what I'm thinking too.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jan 9, 2009 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

come on tball

when FLA kept running that shotgun handoff inside and it was going for 30+ yards…

they did it 2 times in 4 plays or something.

objectively speaking. that is getting owned. im surprised these teams dont run the ball more honestly.

neither team popped the other in the mouth and made ot hurt, metaphorically speaking. FLA finally did, but OU got ino the redzone and were turned into Baylor most of the night. what the hell happened?

Stoops and his 30+ second no huddle/huddle etc… WTF. made greg davis look like a bleeping genius and ive wanted that guys head for a decade…

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 9, 2009 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I could not care less

about college football and I find all of this gnashing of teeth quite amusing.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 9, 2009 8:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well, they got handled

end of

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 9, 2009 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And again...

…the whole idea that because UT beat OU, UT must be in the title game instead of OU seems spurious.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 9, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Obviously

because it is spurious. Both teams lost 1 game.

The only team I see with a reason to whine is Utah.

Get off my lawn.

by DJCahill on Jan 9, 2009 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe they should schedule an oppenent that would allow us to gauge they're true talents.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 9, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe that opponent shouldn't back out on us

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 9, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I assumed you were talking about Texas

If not then disregard

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 9, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe they proved something against alabama??

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 9, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure

But it was too late by then.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 9, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Alabama didn't give a shit about that game.....

so you can’t judge how good Utah is based on that game.

Put Utah in a real conference and then we can judge them. They would have at least 2 losses if they played in the Big 12…….which would make them irrelevant this year.

t ball on MY - "hate the contract, don't hate the player"

by bspate on Jan 9, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

utah beat

michigan ( yah they suck, but it was rich rodruguez’s first game and it was in the big house), air force (bowl team), BYU (bowl team), colorado state (bowl team), oregon state (bowl team – almost won pac 10), tcu (only lost to utah and OU), alabama….

let’s not try to pretend their schedule sucked…

"I may not be a class act, but I'm an American."
-- Ron Artest on wanting to play for the Olympic team

by zkmavz on Jan 9, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Utah certainly seems legit this year.

I thoought Bama was going to steamroll them. Not so much.

My Music Blog

by FuturePants on Jan 9, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

just what i was going to say

they beat the oregon state team that beat usc. as well as tcu and byu.
granted, had they played a premier team such as texas and won there would be zero questions about any of this.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 9, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Michigan was terrible, means nothing

Bowl team? half the teams are bowl teams.. Oregon St. and TCU are good victories, but not the type to where you really know how good a team is. And obviously Alabama was a good victory, but it wasn’t their when deciding who should play the title game.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 9, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yah michigan did suck

which really hurt utah, because im sure when they scheduled this game.. they were hoping that it could be a marquee victory for their program… they got unlucky that michigan is down…. as for OU, who was very fortunate that cincinnati won the big east and that TCU had their best season since the 1950s…

"I may not be a class act, but I'm an American."
-- Ron Artest on wanting to play for the Olympic team

by zkmavz on Jan 9, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I should give credit to Utah

for scheduling Michigan in the big house. Whether it was a good or bad thing that Michigan sucked this year, who knows.. because a loss probably keeps them from a BCS bowl altogether.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 9, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

TCU had their best season since the 1950's?

What the hell are you smoking?

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Jan 9, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

highest final season ranking

since 1959

"I may not be a class act, but I'm an American."
-- Ron Artest on wanting to play for the Olympic team

by zkmavz on Jan 9, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

SOS comparisons (including bowls and only vs D1A teams)

Utah: Opponents Winning % of .517 5 Home Games 6 Away 1 Neutral

http://www.sportslinknetwork.com/cfbtrivia/detail.php?fry=2008&thy=2008&teamname=Utah&IA=on

Texas: Opponents Winning % of .602 7 Home 4 Away 2 Neutral

http://www.sportslinknetwork.com/cfbtrivia/detail.php?fry=2008&thy=2008&teamname=Texas&IA=on

UT had a higher winning %, but also played an incredibly advantageous unbalanced home/away schedule.

USC: Opponents Winning % of .518 6 home 6 away 1 neutral

http://www.sportslinknetwork.com/cfbtrivia/detail.php?fry=2008&thy=2008&teamname=USC&IA=on

Florida: Opponents Winning % of .602 6 home 4 away 3 neutral.

http://www.sportslinknetwork.com/cfbtrivia/detail.php?fry=2008&thy=2008&teamname=Florida&IA=on

Seems to me that Utah has a decent case (once you include the Alabama game). Yes, an easier schedule than the other teams, but at least they won all their games and played more away games than home games.

Counter to that though, check out the Opponents Winning % of all the BCS champions:

2008: Florida – .602 (1 L)
2007: LSU – .581 (2 L)
2006: Florida – .639 (1 L)
2005: Texas – .571 (Undefeated)
2004: USC – .539 (Undefeated)
2003: LSU – .527 (1 L)
2002: Ohio St – .552 (Undefeated)
2001: Miami – .574 (Undefeated)
2000: OU – .554 (Undefeated)
1999: FSU – .557 (Undefeated)
1998: Tenn – .536 (Undefeated)

2 things, Utah would’ve had the lowest of the BCS era. Florida is the 2nd best in the BCS era.

Utah didn’t have an awful schedule or anything, but there is absolutely a reason they didn’t make the title game:

Before Sugar Bowl – .482%
After Sugar Bowl – .517%

Using opponents’ winning % isn’t the end all measure, I just found it interesting.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 9, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Good points.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jan 9, 2009 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you might like this

a poster on a CFB board I read made his case for utah (mnc = mythical national champion):

I favor Utah for #1. I guess for those that don’t think they should I just ask what standard should they have to meet? Consider that in comparison to the mnc’s with perfect records since ’69:

10 mnc’s played fewer top 10 teams than Utah played
11 mnc’s played the same number of top 10 teams as Utah played
5 mnc’s played more top 10 teams than Utah played

5 mnc’s played fewer top 20 teams than Utah played
10 mnc’s played the same number of top 20 teams as Utah played
11 mnc’s played more top 20 teams than Utah played

Were they super impressive every week? No. But, neither were all these teams that lost along the way either.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 9, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good stuff...

I just feel like if you take the names off the jerseys and present Florida, USC, Texas, and Utah as team A, B, C, and D with their resumes that many people would make the case for team D (Utah).

I think the history of Florida, USC, Texas, and even OU have people believing that they are better than Utah this year. Don’t get me wrong, those teams have earned their respect with some very strong seasons in the past, but it’s hard for me to see why that makes them better than the Utes this year. Hopefully Utah has now earned some of that respect with ’04 and ’08 and will be given more of the benefit of the doubt in the future, just laying that foundation.

Either way it has been a hell of a season that I have thoroughly enjoyed and will never forget.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jan 9, 2009 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it means SOMETHING...

it kick-started Rich Rodriguez’ nightmare first season there, and they won at the Big House…isn’t that what they call it? Whatever – they won on the road at Michigan, one of the most intense, large crowd environments you can play at. And disregarding that win, they still didn’t lose to anybody this year (something no other team can say) and beat 6 bowl teams, including the (close game they lost to Florida) 2nd best team from what many consider to be the best conference in football – convincingly.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Jan 9, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Schedule

The Mountain West was arguably a better conference than 3 of the 6 BCS conferences this year.

"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley

by trza on Jan 9, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Which 3 would you be referring to?

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 9, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

pac 10 blowsssss

but MWC is def better than big east… could argue big 10… and during the regular season the MWC whooped up on the pac 10… bowl games byu and air force faltered… with byu losing to a pac 10 team…

"I may not be a class act, but I'm an American."
-- Ron Artest on wanting to play for the Olympic team

by zkmavz on Jan 9, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pac 10's repuation was ruined basically because of one weekend

5-0 in bowls shows me that as the season went on the Pac 10 improved.

But, sure I can agree the MWC was probably better than the Pac 10 this year.

The others are debatable I think.

But, now that the MWC has gotten this good they need to keep it up.

They certainly benefited by playing a kinda crappy OOC (Opponents winning % of .490 including the bowls).

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 9, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Pac 10

contributed to the MWC’s crappy OOC schedule too, so don’t get me wrong there.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 9, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

they played 2 top 10 teams

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 9, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, UT should have been in the title game because they're a better team

UT’s victory over OU is just exhibit A.

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think you can definitively say they're a better team.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 9, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There's nothing definitive about college football at all.

And certainly nothing definitive about the Big XII this season as far as who was the best team.

My Music Blog

by FuturePants on Jan 9, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

True, but I think I have the best evidence.

The only direct evidence is the head to head matchup. I don’t think there’s enough circumstancial evidence (e.g., OU scored 60 points a game at the end of the season, OU beat Tech and OSU in convincing fashion, etc.) to overcome the direct evidence that UT beat OU.

Obviously, the voters valued the circumstantial evidence over the direct evidence.

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But

OU didn’t lose to Tech.

by brettgardner on Jan 9, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's just circumstantial evidence

What evidence is better direct proof of which team is better:

a. UT beat OU
b. OU beat Tech and Tech beat UT

I don’t understand how scenario b trumps scenario a when UT and OU are otherwise tied.

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Please

Stop with this false “circumstantial” vs. “direct” evidence bit.

OU lost to a better team than UT did. The loss thus isn’t as bad.

by brettgardner on Jan 9, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Typical Mack Brown Reasoning

UT’s win over OU is direct evidence of superiority.
UT’s loss to Tech just doesn’t count.

My Music Blog

by FuturePants on Jan 9, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It counts, but it just doesn't count enough

It’s not enough to overcome the direct evidence of superiority.

And to Brett’s point, the argument that “OU lost to a better team than UT did. The loss thus isn’t as bad” doesn’t hold water. If UT had lost to Baylor instead of Tech, then UT would have won the tiebreaker over OU because of the head to head matchup and gone to the Big 12 championship game. This would happen even though UT’s one loss would be to a much worse team than OU’s one loss. You can take that a step further: if UT had lost to UTEP instead of Tech, then there wouldn’t even be a tiebreaker because UT would have the better Big 12 conference record.

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If UT lost....

to either Baylor or UTEP they wouldn’t have been in the title game anyway.

by bdavison94 on Jan 9, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If they had lost to Baylor INSTEAD of Tech

They would still have the one loss, but the three-way tie would be eliminated.

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I CAN READ

and yes the tie would have been and OU would have not played in the Big 12 championship game. After all that OU probably still plays in the title game because they would have ranked 2nd in the BCS given that UTs loss would have been to a horrible team.

by bdavison94 on Jan 9, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

should read....

would have been eliminated.

by bdavison94 on Jan 9, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So that has

Absolutely nothing to do with what you’re talking about. Congrats.

Seriously, that’s the most inane point I think I’ve seen in some time. I bet if OU had lost all their games they wouldn’t be the best team, either.

by brettgardner on Jan 9, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I was rebutting your point

I don’t think the argument that ’OU’s better than UT because OU’s loss was to a better team and thus isn’t as bad’ has much merit, especially since OU’s one loss was to UT. I was using the Baylor and UTEP examples to show how weak your argument was.

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No.

You’re not getting it. The tie-breaker would be a complete afterthought in your scenario, since nobody would ever place UT ahead of OU.

You’re not even rebutting a point, you’re showing me a banana to prove how good an apple tastes.

by brettgardner on Jan 9, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

by bdavison94 on Jan 9, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

That probably depends on which team lost first. If UT lost to UTEP and then beat OU, UT would probably jump OU in the polls. But that’s just a problem with the way people rank teams (the most recent team to lose always suffers more).

I don’t really get your banana and apple point. I’m showing you that there’s a major logical inconsistency by arguing that OU’s better than UT because OU’s loss was to a better team and thus isn’t as bad. Your argument is wrong because it only works in the three-way tie scenario; it fails in the two-way tie scenario.

For example, UT beats OU and loses to Baylor instead of Tech. UT would win the tiebreaker over OU and advance to the Big 12 championship game. According to your reasoning, OU should advance because they lost to a better team and thus their loss wasn’t as bad. Yet that’s not what happens, nor should it happen. That head to head means something. So if we’re going to ignore UT’s loss in the two-way tie scenario, why does it suddenly matter in the three-way tie scenario whenever we both know that voters were just picking between UT and OU anyways?

That said, it’s still UT’s fault for losing to Tech and allowing the voters make a dumb decision. Doesn’t justify the decision, however.

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What are you talking about?

You’re acting like going to the Big 12 championship means anything. It doesn’t, and it really shouldn’t, matter. I’m talking about the better team—the national championship-caliber team.

You have this bizarre hangup on W-L record. I don’t think OU should advance to the Big 12 game in that scenario, I just don’t think that UT should be ranked ahead of OU.

Again, you’re showing me something completely irrelevant to prove your point. It matters so very little that it’s laughable.

by brettgardner on Jan 9, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Completely irrelevant?

You’ve shown me nothing. You make statements like “OU lost to a better team than UT did. The loss thus isn’t as bad.” and “I just don’t think that UT should be ranked ahead of OU” without any support. Let’s be clear: your statement that OU should go because OU’s loss was to a better team has very little relevance to what team should be ranked highest. Can you even provide an example where that argument actually made sense in the past?

“[N]obody would ever place UT ahead of OU.” Says who? You’re acting as if voters would actually send OU to the national championship game while UT goes to the Big 12 championship game. Very, very unlikely. This year, like most years, the winner of the Big 12 South has the inside shot at going to the national championship game over other Big 12 teams. I showed that your argument is completely irrelavant when determining the Big 12 South champion; why should it somehow become relevant when ranking teams for the national championship?

You said you’re talking about the national championship team, but how do you determine that? Do you recommend any sort of logic or reasoning that a voter could use under the current system to decide? I think I’ve got the best evidence of which team deserves to go. So far, you’ve shown me nothing.

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right.

You’re obviously a master of logic. I bow to your mighty “direct evidence”.

If you can’t figure out my point by now, I’m not going to waste my time spoon-feeding it to a simpleton.

by brettgardner on Jan 9, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Heh

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 5:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You know.

I know you maturely laughed it off, but I was thinking about this (odd, I know).

I just wanted to apologize. Pretty silly and uncalled for. Good points all, but in truth I was bummed out from a Madden loss.

So, apologies.

by brettgardner on Jan 9, 2009 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's cool

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So, cstorm15 and Mack are saying:

It counts….it just doesn’t count enough.

My Music Blog

by FuturePants on Jan 9, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

OU beating Tech and Tech beating UT doesn’t outweigh UT beating OU when both UT and OU otherwise have the same record.

UT’s victory over OU is better evidence of which team is better.

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My response was sarcastic.

Because it’s such a retarded point of reasoning. It was a 3 way tie. Get past it.

My Music Blog

by FuturePants on Jan 9, 2009 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

UT fans.....

would be much better off just letting it go. The whining makes you look worse.

by bdavison94 on Jan 9, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

it was a tie, it doesnt matter any more it’s over.
someone is always going to be upset.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 9, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair

I responded to Adam’s comment: “…the whole idea that because UT beat OU, UT must be in the title game instead of OU seems spurious.” I didn’t just bring it up out of the blue. (Plus, I love disagreeing with Adam.)

Look, UT fans have a reason to be pissed off. If it was your team, you’d act the same way. When Auburn was left out in 2003, Auburn fans didn’t quietly say “well, there were three teams, and we don’t mind being left out.” Hell, when OU was screwed because of a blown call after instant replay at Oregon, they didn’t just say “these things happen.”

Fortunately, the season is now over and the whole topic can just go away.

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This might be a silly question.

But since Tech beat UT, using your logic, isn’t Tech a better team than UT? The best direct evidence of which team is superior is the head to head matchup that Tech won, right?

I’m really not trying to be flippant here, but how do you get around this point such that UT should have been in the title game instead of OU or Tech?

by Athos on Jan 9, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If someone actually tried to argue that Tech deserved to go out of the three, I would agree. (It’s funny, plenty of people say hypothetically “Well then shouldn’t Tech be ranked ahead of UT” yet no one ever follows through with the argument.)

Instead, the voters, the talking heads, and just about every person outside of Lubbock determined that Lubbock was the distant third team out of the three-team race. Thus, the decision came down to UT versus OU.

Remember how this played out. After week 13, Texas was second in the BCS and OU was third. Tech was a distant 7th. After OU dismantled OSU, OU jumped Texas. Tech was still a distant 7th. Although it was a three-way tie, it was a two team race. The question came down to which team deserved to be ranked higher: UT or OU. I think UT wins that argument.

Just to be clear, I don’t think the head-to-head is Texas’s only argument here. I just think that it’s the most direct evidence on point when arguing whether UT or OU deserved to go to the Big 12 Championship game and the National Championship game.

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The fact that Tech....

fell so far is partly due to the bias that is inherent in the rankings. Ohio St., Michigan, Notre Dame, UT, UF, OU, Alabama, USC, Georgia, etc all get ranked on reputation as much as skill. Tech, Utah, Boise St, TCU don’t have the rep.

After barely beating a weaker than their rank Ohio St. team, losing in good order to UF, and getting beat by the 3rd or 4th best team in the SEC (Ole Miss) the big 12 didn’t perform well at all in the bowl games. In other words UT, OU, and TT were probably all over ranked mostly due to the rep of UT and OU.

Yet another reason this whole system is a sham.

I’m a big 12 guy and I think 4 teams have a great argument that they should be the national champion.

by bdavison94 on Jan 9, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with all of that

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 9:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If only

UT and OU had met on the field this year, especially maybe a nuetral field, then we would definitely know who was the better team

by BEW on Jan 9, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I heard, that between the Aggies and Longhorns,

The Aggies were the better team 2 of the last 3 years.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 9, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Totally true.

That also goes for the last 15 years as well.

My Music Blog

by FuturePants on Jan 9, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

…really?

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jan 9, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They met on the field.

Direct evidence.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 9, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you can now

OU couldn’t win that game. I didn’t think Texas could have, but at least they haven’t proved that they can’t.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Jan 9, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

what other evidence is meant to be analyzed in sports?

the horns beat them. they were better.

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 9, 2009 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I believe the Sagarin ratings...

…had OU higher, before the bowl games. They may be different now.

Personally, I think the oddsmakers in Las Vegas have a better handle on who the best teams are than anyone. I’m curious what they’d set a UT/OU line on a neutral field at right now.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 9, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They were higher

because OU played Missouri in the Big 12 championship game…

by Captain Snappy on Jan 9, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Utah got a first place vote...

I thought the coaches were contractually required to vote the BCS winner #1?

by Captain Snappy on Jan 9, 2009 11:07 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

What happens if they don't?

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 9, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is it in the AP or coaches poll?

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 9, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Coaches Poll

I guess that means the Utah coach will lose his vote next year and Carroll and Brown didn’t want to chance it?

by Captain Snappy on Jan 9, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It was Utah's coach that voted them #1...

Said he didn’t care… It was in his best interests to do what was best for his program, regardless of the consequences…

Chances are he loses his vote next season…

by N41D on Jan 9, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is it just me or

does anyone else notice a lot of the people who are refusing to say that UT is better than OU are lawyers? This is the profession that trains people to say things that are obviously not true like
OJ is innocent
Enron didnt do anything wrong
Bill Clinton did not have sexual relations with that woman

I know we need lawyers to protect the innocent ( and the guilty as well ), though I do think we have too many. Instead of several hundred thousand maybe 12 or 13. 20 tops.

But anyway, didnt mean to hijack the thread. I just noticed it was lawyers that were making the argument for OU. I do like lawyers that have killer Ranger baseball sites

by BEW on Jan 9, 2009 11:17 AM CST reply actions 1 recs

Wow.

Nomination for the dumbest post of the new year.

by brettgardner on Jan 9, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lawers rule.

BEW drools. Booyah.

My Music Blog

by FuturePants on Jan 9, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exploding High Five!

by brettgardner on Jan 9, 2009 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

Well, I knew that would liven up the boring off season

by BEW on Jan 9, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

people need to refrain from being dumbasses just to "liven up" things

that happens too much in society in general

Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade

by ab03 on Jan 9, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Some people need to unclench their butt cheeks

and get a sense of humor

by BEW on Jan 9, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Yes

I believe he adressed that in his lawyer post above.

"But with Tom Hicks squeezing his checkbook tighter than Tony Romo's grip on Jessica Simpson"- Jim Reeves on why Cruz will be the clean-up hitter in '09

by red3biggs on Jan 9, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's pretty stupid, yah.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

So last Friday I’m at a bar. I take this guy home. He’s a little fat. Whatever, right? Plus, chubsters are so grateful, they usually try harder. Anyway, right in the middle of things, he’s sweating and grunting like a hairy rhino and I just start to hate myself. Really, really hate myself… So, without even thinking, I just head butt him right in the face. Bam. Clock him right between the eyes. Knock him out cold. So, that’s what I got. What you got going on?

by thedirkatron on Jan 9, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a lawyer and I'm saying that UT is better than OU...

by cstorm15 on Jan 9, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ditto

I think it’s f’d up logic to say that because OU lost to UT, then OU is better than UT. Runs contrary to the whole theory of a postseason tournament. If a team beats another team, it’s the better team.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 9, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody says

That because OU lost to UT that they’re better. It’s just that nothing exists in isolation.

I find it hard to adopt your logic when UT, for instance, lost to teams like KState and A&M last year—teams that were clearly inferior.

by brettgardner on Jan 9, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you in favor of a postseason tournament instead of just bowl games?

Most people are but it appears you are not.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 9, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The thing is

I see a postseason tourney to be just as unfair, because unless you’re prepared to put 32 teams in, you’re really only going to include the top ones anyway. It may be fairer for those particular teams, but I don’t see how Utah, for instance, wouldn’t still be screwed.

The system needs drastic changes, I agree. Coaches shouldn’t have a poll. In fact, the whole notion of a poll is bullshit in a way. I suppose the only compromise is to limit the tournament to the top 8 teams and let everybody else get their bowls.

I don’t know the answer, but I sure do enjoy watching the millions of bowl games. They’ll have to be left in somehow.

by brettgardner on Jan 9, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I should also add:

Maybe it’s because I went to Tech, and I don’t think they’ll ever be a perennial national championship contender, but I just don’t care too much about who wins that.

Probably not the best attitude for creative solutions.

by brettgardner on Jan 9, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

but wouldnt you want the chance.

TT is generally a top 25 team, so is tcu, and utah and OKSt. in a playoff, theres a chance one of those teams goes on a roll and becomes really hard to beat, takes out ohio state then oregon then USC… they win it all…

now thats the story of a legendary season, it might change the face of recruiting if it happened every once in a while. which is the last thing that any of those schools or conferences want. i just dont get how they are protecting the bowls? cant they work the bowls into the playoff system? wouldnt it be a bigger deal than ever is the Alamo Bowl was a feeder to the Cotton Bowl or the winner of that going to a Rose for a playoff system? Wouldnt it mean bigger money and more improtant games to sell on TV over a huge swath of what is considered the hollidays.

its like leading the blind.

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 9, 2009 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's all about money.

Don’t confuse the issues.

There won’t be a playoff because of money and only because of money.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

So last Friday I’m at a bar. I take this guy home. He’s a little fat. Whatever, right? Plus, chubsters are so grateful, they usually try harder. Anyway, right in the middle of things, he’s sweating and grunting like a hairy rhino and I just start to hate myself. Really, really hate myself… So, without even thinking, I just head butt him right in the face. Bam. Clock him right between the eyes. Knock him out cold. So, that’s what I got. What you got going on?

by thedirkatron on Jan 9, 2009 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's a bowl that will create solutions.

"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."

- The Huntressatron

by Chase Irwin on Jan 9, 2009 7:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's what is needed here,

a ‘bowl’ game.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 9, 2009 8:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

For fuck's sake Cahill, open your jokebook and fire away.

by oc on Jan 9, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not a lawer and I'm saying OU is better than UT...

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 9, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

my dad is a lawyer

and i think florida is better than both of them…

"I may not be a class act, but I'm an American."
-- Ron Artest on wanting to play for the Olympic team

by zkmavz on Jan 9, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My mother works for a lawyer.....

and I’m sure that Utah deserved to be in the title game over UT or OU.

by bdavison94 on Jan 9, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

last time i was in court i acted as my own lawyer...

…i think there should be a playoff…

"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...

by ivysafety39 on Jan 9, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

I did, too...

didn’t work out so well. the Judge embarrassed the SHIT out of me…guess I should’ve done some research first.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Jan 9, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've hired and fired lawyers

And the quality of UT football has never come up. Nor has that of OU. Puzzling, no?

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Jan 9, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Did Artest really say that?

by brettgardner on Jan 9, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

rec

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 9, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Back to the subject

I am OK with Bowden and Bard for Salty if a third wild card (like Beltre) is thrown into the deal.

Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!

by pbpsean on Jan 9, 2009 11:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

You might have to narrow that down a bit, who are you thinking of? I don’ think the Sox are going to be willing to throw in another high upside prospect, but could see them adding a lesser prospect.

From my own perspective guys like Almanzar, Middlebrooks, and Lin would be off limits. I could see the Sox adding someone like Ryan Dent (a former 1S pick with great athleticism, but who hasn’t put it together) or Felix Doubront (a young LHP from the DR).

The Sox were willing to walk away from the Manny trade over the inclusion of Stomly Pimentel, primarily because of what they feel they gave up in Beltre. I think JD would have a very hard time getting another bonus like that out of Theo…

"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.

by OCD SS on Jan 9, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Salty for Bowden and Hagadone

who says no?

by clark on Jan 9, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because of Hagadone's injury history...

I think we might.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jan 9, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It wouldn’t surprise me if JD already did.

If both Salty and Tea develop he can do better. I think that’s the baseline JD’s maintaining, and probably the context for getting his trade proposals rejected.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 9, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure...

as I said earlier in this thread, Bowden and Hagadone would be enough for me (at this point). That being said, I can’t imagine it hasn’t been discussed unless it’s not within the ‘zone of agreement’ for either GM.

Question for those of you familiar enough with the Sox prospects: Where would Bowden and Hagadone rank in the Rangers’ system?

I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.

by Haeger Champ on Jan 9, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I'm not as familiar with the Ranger's system, but...

Question for those of you familiar enough with the Sox prospects: Where would Bowden and Hagadone rank in the Rangers’ system?

When BA had their Rangers chat I asked where Bowden and Bard would rank. IIRC the answer was #8 and #12, respectively. Right now the Rangers have a much better system than the Sox. I don’t think it’s any secret that BA will rank the Rangers as #1, and they let slip that the Sox will be #13.

"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.

by OCD SS on Jan 9, 2009 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hagadone

His ranking would depend a lot on who you ask. If you’re talking about pre-injury Hagadone, he’s going to be up there with the best lefties in minor league baseball. But if you include the fact that TJS isn’t a success-guaranteed surgery, you’ll find a lot of variance. On the conservative side, John Sickels has him #8 for the Red Sox as a B-. That would slot likely around #12 on the Texas list for him. BA is less conservative about that sort of thing, ranking Hagadone #3 for Boston. SoxProspects.com has him at #16. So it’s all relative to how conservative people are about major injuries.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 9, 2009 5:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

BA’s ranking is really Jim Callis’s (he does the Sox every year). I think his ranking was really affected by the Sox FO’s opinion of Hagadone. FWIW he started into his rehab throwing program a couple months ago.

My own opinion is that I prefer Hagadone over both Masterson and Bowden, even with the TJ risk.

"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.

by OCD SS on Jan 9, 2009 7:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Boston already has.

Supposedly JD asked for 2 packages for Salty:

1. Buchholz
2. Any 2 of Masterson/ Bowden/ Hagadone.

Both have been rejected.

"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.

by OCD SS on Jan 9, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I just don't see a deal going down at this point.

JD has absolutely no reason to lessen his demands. The Sox definitely need a long-term answer at catcher, but I think the rest of their lineup is good enough that they can hide a stop-gap in their lineup for a year until something cheaper becomes available.

At this point, if I am JD, I tell Theo that he can have Salty for:

1. Buchholz and we’ll add an A-ball arm like Boscan or Poveda; or
2. Bowden and Masterson (I’d rather have Buch, but I could live with option 2).

And really, at this point, I don’t see Boston caving on either of those. Sometimes the best move for everyone involved is to walk away.

by Athos on Jan 9, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."

- The Huntressatron

by Chase Irwin on Jan 9, 2009 7:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be pretty down with that.

I wouldn’t be in love with an offer like that, but Hagadone does a lot to make my pants happy.

I’d be rather okay with it if it were announced tomorrow.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

So last Friday I’m at a bar. I take this guy home. He’s a little fat. Whatever, right? Plus, chubsters are so grateful, they usually try harder. Anyway, right in the middle of things, he’s sweating and grunting like a hairy rhino and I just start to hate myself. Really, really hate myself… So, without even thinking, I just head butt him right in the face. Bam. Clock him right between the eyes. Knock him out cold. So, that’s what I got. What you got going on?

by thedirkatron on Jan 9, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure a Boston trade is necessary

Buying Sheets and either putting Max in AAA or making him available for a good pitching prospect may be the alternative if Buch is in fact locked out from BOS deals.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Jan 9, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention

it doesn’t preclude a three-way, say:

1. We send Salty to BOS
1. BOS sends some combo of Bard/Bowden/Masterson to FLO (Bard could challenge Ceda and Lindstrom for the long-term closer job)
2. We get Ryan Tucker as Bowden/Masterson makes him expendable

"I lost my virginity but I still have the box it came in."
- Unknown

by Rangerchick on Jan 9, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ryan Tucker

I would rank him below Bowden and Masterson and just a hair above Bard (if at all), simply because I don’t think he has enough pitches to make it as a starter. I think he ends up a solid bullpen guy. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

But Ryan Tucker is definitely not worth Salty, especially if an offer of Bard AND Bowden is actually on the table.

by clark on Jan 9, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ryan Tucker

is a good return for Max Ramirez. He isn’t near enough for Salty.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 9, 2009 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

not really

I wouldn’t trade Max for Tucker, it’s not even tempting.

But I believe in MaxRam’s bat much more than most apparently.

"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM

by tricer on Jan 9, 2009 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well you wouldn't

but that’s not exactly a shock.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 9, 2009 5:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

But do you believe in the glove, Toddler?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

So last Friday I’m at a bar. I take this guy home. He’s a little fat. Whatever, right? Plus, chubsters are so grateful, they usually try harder. Anyway, right in the middle of things, he’s sweating and grunting like a hairy rhino and I just start to hate myself. Really, really hate myself… So, without even thinking, I just head butt him right in the face. Bam. Clock him right between the eyes. Knock him out cold. So, that’s what I got. What you got going on?

by thedirkatron on Jan 9, 2009 8:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no, not really

I think he is “just” a .900ish OPS DH that provides a little flexibility because he can catch 40 or so games a year. I also think there is the potential for a monster season or two somewhere along the way. It’s a limb that I’ve climbed all the way out on.

I also think he may turn out to be the best hitter among Davis, Smoak, and his Maxiness himself. So, I’d value him accordingly.

"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM

by tricer on Jan 9, 2009 8:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Suggesting three-ways

look at you go, Rangerchick …

"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."

- The Huntressatron

by Chase Irwin on Jan 9, 2009 7:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

She's very deliberate with her hints it's not even shocking anymore.

by oc on Jan 9, 2009 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

By the way, happy birthday to Brandon Boggs.

by Kinslerhomer on Jan 9, 2009 3:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

+1

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 9, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Per Peter Gammons from mlbtraderumors.com

The Red Sox “seem focused” on Arizona catcher Miguel Montero, with Jarrod Saltalamacchia remaining a possibility. The Red Sox so far will not give up Michael Bowden for Montero. Gammons notes the Sox made failed runs at Russell Martin and Mike Napoli.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 9, 2009 3:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Boston

If they’re failing at getting Russ Martin they’re truly committed to not trading Buchholz.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 9, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Buccholz plus who knows.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 9, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m pretty sure that they would put Buchholz on the table for Martin, but there’s no telling how much Colleti would want for him.

I’m a bit surprised that they may have made a run at Napoli. I thought there were a lot of questions about his defense (more so than Salty) to the point that Scoscia was still playing Mathis despite Napoli’s much better bat.

"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.

by OCD SS on Jan 9, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not a big fan of Scioscia

but he did end up giving Mathis, the 55 OPS+ hitting catcher, for 90 starts over Napoli, the 147 OPS+ hitter, who got 71 starts. That’s got to be some terrible defense.

On a side note, why the hell would an offensive desperate team like the Angels not go with Napoli at DH more or at all. That team is so desperate for even average hitters, playing Napoli at DH instead of benching him would be a huge boost.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 9, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know how bad Napoli is defensively. I’ve never really paid attention to it. But I am really hesitant to take anything Scioscia does with his lineup seriously. I really think that he would play a .000/.000/.000 player who doesn’t strike out much if he gives off the right vibe and plays solid defense.

by Brett Perryman on Jan 9, 2009 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That would be sad if I am

actually giving him too much credit because I already think he’s as dumb as a rock.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 9, 2009 6:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

which obviously means

that they are actually focused on Salty and are trying to lower the price. Transparency….Good in the business world, but awkward in sports journalism.

by clark on Jan 9, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Red Sox nation would be very underwhelmed by Miguel Montero.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 9, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree.

I’m not a Montero fan at all. But I think this goes to the Sox FO’s sticking to the value they assign a player. They view Salty as being worth more than Montero: They will trade Bowden + Bard for Salty, but so far have only offered Bard for Montero, and will not trade Bowden for him. They’ll probably make a deal with whoever winds up agreeing with them on the value involved, even if it means they wind up with the lesser option (Montero).

I also just had the thought that being unwilling to deal Bowden for Montero is where the idea that they don’t want to deal Bowden at all got started. Some reporter is probably looking at the report and erroneously concluding that Montero and Salty are both young catchers, and if the Sox won’t trade Bowden for one, they won’t for the other…

"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.

by OCD SS on Jan 9, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is there a reason why they dont sign a stopgap or trade for a laird (too late) and just wait for Mauer to hit the market?

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Jan 9, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

3 years is too long to wait, and the Twins are riding Mauer’s knees pretty hard. By the time his contract is up (assuming he would even leave the Twins, which I kind of doubt) I doubt he’ll have much catching left in him.

Not to mention that that’s the same year that Possada’s contract is up with the Yankees…

"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.

by OCD SS on Jan 9, 2009 7:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs