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A couple of outsider takes on Jon Daniels

Patrick Sullivan at Baseball Analysts and Rob Neyer over at ESPN (who comments on Sullivan's article) each talk about the Rangers' situation and Jon Daniels today...

Sullivan has the lengthier analysis looking at where the Rangers are now and where they are heading, taking Daniels to task for awful deals but also acknowledging that the organization appears to be heading the right direction:

With an unexpectedly large bounce in their pitching performance in 2009, the Rangers may have an outside shot at competing in a weak division this season. But in all likelihood this will be a lost season. If Nolan Ryan can hang in there with Daniels, see how his youngsters perform in 2009, monitor his trade decisions and trust he has learned from past mistakes, it may turn out that he would be best served standing up to external pressures to let Daniels go.

Neyer mainly quotes from the Sullivan piece, before weighing in with his own conclusion:

From an outsider's perspective, Daniels deserves at least another year or two at the helm. After all, he's had the job for only three years, and three years really isn't a long time (he's probably not as lousy at trading as he's looked, nor as good at developing young players as he's looked). I do worry that Nolan Ryan will have little patience if the pitching problems continue (though it's not clear how much influence Ryan really has). I also worry that the pitching problems will continue for as long as the Rangers play half their games in a ballpark that seems to take so much out of their pitchers.

I do share Neyer's belief that another awful performance from the pitching staff in 2009 could result in Ryan cleaning house (except for Mike Maddux, Ryan's hire as pitching coach).

But the Sullivan and Neyer pieces are both pretty even-handed looks at what has happened here.  And despite what Sullivan says, I personally don't think there is a ton of outside pressure on Ryan to fire the g.m.  Yeah, Randy Galloway and his distaff sidekick are going to beat that drum, but is there really a widespread demand to fire Daniels?

I will say that there appears to be a good amount of apathy about the team that has settled over the fan base, which is, I believe, driven by the fact that the team is in danger of having its 9th losing season in 10 years in 2009.  There's pressure on everyone in the organization to put out a winner.  But I don't think that there's a lot of pressure on Ryan, Hicks or anyone else to make big structural changes in what the team is doing as of right now.

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There's not much drumbeat to do anything with the Rangers

because no one obsesses about them.

Get off my lawn.

by DJCahill on Jan 9, 2009 1:53 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Heh

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 9, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think JD has until Feliz and Holland start to make an impression myself

My worry is that if Feliz and Holland struggle too badly in their first impressions, it’ll lead to a premature housecleaning and possibly more dumb “let’s try and make a winner overnight” moves.

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 9, 2009 2:00 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

This is why people should not start calling for them to be promoted this May

Hopefully everyone who was incessantly saying “Bring up Hurley!” learned their lesson last year. Hurley really needed the full year in AAA – June was too early for him. Inevitably some people will say in May “Lets see Holland!” The kid is only a handful of starts into AA, give him some time…

by JBImaknee on Jan 9, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hurley pitched pretty well until he got hurt.

Unless the argument is that he wouldn’t have been hurt if he stayed in AAA, I don’t see what remaining in the Redhawk rotation would have benefited him. During his first 4 starts in June, he had 22.2 IP, 22 H, 9 ER, 7 BB, 12 SO, for a 3.57 ERA and a 1.28 WHIP. His injured start in July skewed his numbers. I would take that June performance from any pitcher in the Rangers rotation and especially from a guy in his first month in the bigs. I think the fear in early promotion is that a pitcher is going to be overmatched and killed their confidence, which was clearly not the case as far as Hurley and Harrison were concerned. Tommy Hunter, on the other hand, was obviously not ready.

by Athos on Jan 9, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Conor was a bad thing for Hurley

One of his most impressive traits coming up through the system was his durability. He’s around Conor for a couple months and he’s shut down for the first time in his career.

"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM

by tricer on Jan 9, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

i have a cousin who merely walked in front of Connor last year and he tumbled down a stairwell and broke his ankle…

by Goyogringo on Jan 11, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

+rec

That was awesome

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hurley really needed the full year in AAA – June was too early for him…

Wasn’t half the pitching staff on the disabled list?

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for a ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have... are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let Buchholz go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you. I will find you.

And I will kill you.

by oc on Jan 9, 2009 11:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan

If the pitching falters, shouldn’t he take the blame?

The talent level in the org is unambiguous: there are a lot of no-debate studhorses arriving in 2009, certainly in 2010. That’s more JD’s role.

Their performance, certainly with Nolan’s hyperpublicized fitness program for pitching, is not something the GM deserves blame for.

And the offseason isn’t over, nor the FA and trade processes.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 9, 2009 2:01 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think Daniels has through 2010

Its pretty clear that his future is entirely dependent on the arms of Feliz, Holland, and to a lesser extent Harrison. They are the biggest pitching acquisitions he has made and the nature of their acquisition (either trades and draft) they all happened to be investments rather than immediate returns.

2010 will tell us whether the depth we’ve been seeing over the past 5 years or so is a mirage or if it is real

by JBImaknee on Jan 9, 2009 2:01 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hurley held his own in the couple healthy starts he had.

Are you saying the injury was a result of being called up too early?

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 9, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

AJM

My worst nightmare would be for the Rangers to do poorly this year and JD is fired and Hicks convinces Ryan to be the new GM. Then, starting in 2010, the farm system begins to do well at the major league level and Ryan is credited with being responsible for all of this.

"And the Rangers looking to win it! The Rangers have won it!"
-- Josh Lewin, Sept 23, 2004

by Agreen07 on Jan 9, 2009 2:04 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately, that type of thing happens a lot in baseball

That’s kind of what happened to John Hart in Cleveland, if I recall correctly.

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 9, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and Doug Melvin

here.

Get off my lawn.

by DJCahill on Jan 9, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmn

So, Mavs fans: is he any good?

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 9, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He does play-by-play here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb4SjLO2aJI

"And the Rangers looking to win it! The Rangers have won it!"
-- Josh Lewin, Sept 23, 2004

by Agreen07 on Jan 9, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He was awesome...

…when he did basketball. Great, great PBP man.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 9, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Does anyone know who the 3rd man was on the Mavs TV broadcast last night?

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 9, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah that was Skin

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 9, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Per Jamey
The new hire is the only sports journalist in North America who hasn’t weighed in (yet) on the Red Sox-Rangers pitcher-for-catcher trade speculation. The latest note in the saga comes from ESPN’s Buster Olney, whose quote from Boston GM Theo Epstein – “I think you’ll see us now turn to players who we can take chances on, players who represent potential impact players. We still have some things going on.” – is sure to stoke the rumor fires even further.

LOL, let it all begin….again.

"And the Rangers looking to win it! The Rangers have won it!"
-- Josh Lewin, Sept 23, 2004

by Agreen07 on Jan 9, 2009 2:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

as I obviously overlooked

kinsler homer’s post above.

by BHill on Jan 9, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Umm yeah lol

"And the Rangers looking to win it! The Rangers have won it!"
-- Josh Lewin, Sept 23, 2004

by Agreen07 on Jan 9, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why would Boston

trade for a Rangers Catcher when they can sign me as a Free Agent.

by BedwetterBlanco on Jan 9, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't that Bucholz?

He could just as easily be talking about keeping Bucholz as trading for a C.

by gr7070 on Jan 9, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand the impetus to rush this organization.

  I wrote this FanPost back in July (and I’m still hoping we find a decent deal to dump off Padilla), and I just don’t get why we want to rush our franchise into deeper failure.
  We’re rebuilding our franchise the way we had all hoped; why waste everything before the first pitch of the 2010 season? Keep the crew in place at least until beginning spring training at which point, maybe we can entertain talk of a replacement for Ron Washington.

Jay Zygmunt, now that you have fired yourself, please have yourself hired by Seattle. Thanks.

by 3k on Jan 9, 2009 2:52 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

What rush?

Who has an “impetus to rush this organization?” I see very few with any sort of impetus that way, starting and nearly ending with Galloway.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 9, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

It seems that if the Rangers end up competing, most people would think of it as a surprise or a nice bonus. If they can’t compete in the division in 2010 is when people start to get impatient, I think.

by FuturePants on Jan 9, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My expectation

2009: Finish over .500
2010: 90 wins
2011: Playoffs

"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley

by trza on Jan 9, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You dont think...

that 90 wins in 2010 will make the playoffs? That would kind of suck.

by NorCalRangersFan on Jan 9, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think 90 wins

has a very good chance of winning the division in either ’09 or ’10, but it might not get the wild card.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 9, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

I hope so. But it’s been since a team has won the AL West with 90 or fewer games.

"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley

by trza on Jan 9, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Been since...

1998

"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley

by trza on Jan 9, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You must also expect...

the Rangers to sign/trade for pitching before the ’09 season then.

Because this team is not a .500 team with the current pitching staff.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jan 9, 2009 5:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you sure?

Millwood and Padilla in contract years if healthy, McCarthy healthy and Nolan-ized, Harrison with experience and confidence under his belt, and take your pick between Hurley, Feldman or a free agent/trade acquisition even…

By no means am I saying this is a lock for .500 ball, but I don’t see one good reason why a HEALTHY staff (our main problem the past few years) with motivation for contracts and a solid bullpen behind them and an improved defense (3B, C if Tea plays a lot) combined with a near-dominant offense can’t be expected to win 81 games at the bare minimum.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Jan 9, 2009 6:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A bunch of question marks

just like every year.

"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."

- The Huntressatron

by Chase Irwin on Jan 9, 2009 7:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure.

But it never ceases to amaze me that so many “fans” of this team refuse to even consider the possibility that Harrison, Hurley, and a healthy BMac might make for a better rotation in ‘09. Since they didn’t all dominate last year in a patchwork rotation means that they are doomed to sucktitude in perpetuity.

by Athos on Jan 9, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, they could be better,

but, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if its yet another year where we see a dozen or so pitchers in the starting roles, with most of them throwing up ERAs of 5 or so.

I’d say the odds of all 3 stepping up are pretty long.

If we are lucky, 1 or 2 will.

Get off my lawn.

by DJCahill on Jan 10, 2009 7:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

1 or 2 would still mean a marked improvement in the staff.

I just really don’t see why so many seem to see doom and gloom from the staff this year. The only way they are as bad as or worse than last year is if all three of those guys flame out. I just don’t see that happening.

by Athos on Jan 10, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hmm...

Neyer’s piece: 1500 words sullivan; 250 words neyer

by Goyogringo on Jan 9, 2009 2:52 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

That's pretty much

what Neyer’s blog is like.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 9, 2009 5:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps, Galloway will figure out finally

that it’s not JD that makes up the budget. You cannot sign up anybody decent for what the Rangers have been spending the last few years on few agents. In order to win, you need all your cylinders running. A budget less then the A’s or the Royals have, is not enough to change the path and the apathy. This budget is unacceptable. So, hopefully, he changes the direction of his tirades and aims them directly at Hicks in the future, not that Hicks gives 2 cents about that. However, with a further decline in the fan base, who knows.

by SanDiegoKev on Jan 9, 2009 4:36 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Galloway's bit

Is choke full of crap.
Fire JD cause he cant get pitching here….

Blaming Connor for the pitching is a mistake cause he hasnt been given any pitching (so long as you dont count C Young, E V, B Mac, and Eric Hurely)

Connor was a good ole boy for Galloway. Has to be. A left over from the Buck era, and i’m certain Randy was on his speed dial.

"But with Tom Hicks squeezing his checkbook tighter than Tony Romo's grip on Jessica Simpson"- Jim Reeves on why Cruz will be the clean-up hitter in '09

by red3biggs on Jan 9, 2009 5:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

JD is doing the best he can with the hand he has been dealt.

by Joe Mama on Jan 9, 2009 6:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Good summary

Adam’s last paragraph above. Pretty much covers it.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Jan 9, 2009 5:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hicks must go

I read these blogs, day after day, and no one seems to care about the Rangers. Somebody has to voice a opinion. Hicks is the worst owner in baseball. Blame Galloway all you want, but unless people start being heard and we get a new owner, the Rangers may not be in Arlington. The media, DMN, TV stations, radio stations and even these blogs, keep giving Hicks, JD and Washington a free ride. Nobody will print or voice that Hicks sucks. How many times in the last 2 weeks have you heard on radio, TV, DMN that Phillips should be fired. The football beat writers arent afraid to ask the hard questions. But Evan Grant wouldnt get near it, on the Ragner problems. Come on Adam, Newberg, get tough with the Rangers, it cant get much worst. Maybe everyone should listen to Galloway once in a while, get pissed off and do something.

by Big Tex on Jan 9, 2009 8:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Saying Phillips should be fired

is the equivalent of saying Washington should be fired and several people have suggested that. Regarding the Cowboys, reporters have suggested more than once that Jerry should fire himself as GM and be only an owner…. while not exactly the same thing, that is similiar to suggesting that Hicks sell the Rangers in that both of these suggestions have been ignored. The unfortunate facts are that both Jones and Hicks own these franchises and if they don’t want to sell or change the way they operate, it is really hard to force them to do anything. I believe that Jerry really wants to win and will do almost anything within his power to make that happen. I don’t think Hicks likes losing on the field but I think he hates losing money worse. To be fair though, I do not the think the Cowboys have ever done anything but make Jerry richer and I am not sure that the same can be said for Tom and the Rangers.

I do share your frustration…I’m just not sure what can really be done about it.

by Jea103 on Jan 9, 2009 10:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

*Dismissive Wanking Motion*

The 40 Trumps All!!!

So last Friday I’m at a bar. I take this guy home. He’s a little fat. Whatever, right? Plus, chubsters are so grateful, they usually try harder. Anyway, right in the middle of things, he’s sweating and grunting like a hairy rhino and I just start to hate myself. Really, really hate myself… So, without even thinking, I just head butt him right in the face. Bam. Clock him right between the eyes. Knock him out cold. So, that’s what I got. What you got going on?

by thedirkatron on Jan 10, 2009 12:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 10, 2009 2:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+2

"A ~.650 OPS from a COF should get you deported, not traded for."

- The Huntressatron

by Chase Irwin on Jan 10, 2009 10:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

-1

t ball on MY - "hate the contract, don't hate the player"

by bspate on Jan 10, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Someone has to voice an opinion.

Ok, no one here is willing to do that, we have no opinions, so go ahead.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 10, 2009 8:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Jamey had

a column last month that absolutley ripped WPhillips. Said his sloppy team was a reflection of his appearance. Then he went after the GM of the team as well.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 10, 2009 9:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If the Rangers are 10 games under .500 after the first month, I will call for his head.

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for a ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have... are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let Buchholz go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you. I will find you.

And I will kill you.

by oc on Jan 9, 2009 11:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Why?

Or is this in jest?

Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?

by lonestarJon on Jan 10, 2009 2:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Who's getting head?

Huh? Wha—-

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jan 10, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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