Sheehan on Byrd
Lincoln (Dallas): Joe, please tell Ron Washington, Michael Young, and the hoards of Ranger fans that signing Marlon Byrd in free agency is a bad idea...Joe Sheehan: The devil is in the details. I'd take Byrd back on a two-year deal for the kind of money those deals usually entail. It's a lefty-heavy outfield, and Byrd's a nice fourth OF. If it takes more than that, or any kind of PT assurance, you have to let him go.
over 2 years ago
Adam J. Morris
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The problem is that
Wash would use him as a fulltime player and not a 4th OF. Byrd will also want to be paid like a fulltime CF. Just say no!
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland -Tom Grieve Rangers Minor League Player of the Year
Martin Perez - Nolan Ryan Rangers Minor League Pitcher of the Year
Wash would use him
as a fulltime player because we don’t have 3 better OFs.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
projecting performance next year
do you think Byrd will be a better CF than Borbon next year?
"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out
I think so.
I think Borbon’s arm will always make him a poor CF. I’m also not impressed with his jumps.
Borbon looks to me like your classic tweener. Not enough glove for CF, not enough bat for the corners.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
I agree.....Borbon (at least not yet) can't be the CF answer
Byrd looks like a must sign, unless he gets a big offer. If Josh is Ham09 and not Ham08, who else is there? Not even factoring in the intangibles, there’s no other option if they are thinking about contending. Is he the best CF in the league, NO, but he’s done a pretty admirable job the last couple of years.
If Josh is back full speed, then he splits time w/ Murphy, spells Cruz, DH’s (neither AJones or Hank are back) whatever. Somewhere around 2yrs/$12M or 3/$15M would be OK……if he gets a Milton Bradley offer (not out of the question, IMO), then bye-bye
If Borbon is going to be a poor defensive CFer...
…we sure as hell better move him now, while he’s got some value.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 3, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
So...
what do you think? Do you see him as a poor defensive CFer? Is his arm enough to warrant not playing him in CF?
Thoughts on his overall game so far.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Contrary to those that refer to him as a 4th outfielder
he has been a fulltime centerfielder for much of the past 3 seasons.
Yay?
He’s got a .327 OBP, below average defense and he’s 32.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
And yet...
…using EQR, he’s about a run below average for his position this season.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
most of the guys on the CF OPS list
played around a lot of injury time this year,
Hunter, Adam Jones, Sizemore
and are you really happy that he beat out guys like Granderson, Cabrera, and Ellsbury for OPS. Among qualifying COF’s, he had the third fewest runs
And using wOBA
He’s tied for 11th in the majors for centerfielders with Grady Sizemore, Curtis Granderson, and Nyjer Morgan.
His offense at CF isn’t the issue…he’s just not a good defensive CF’er.
He’s a good defensive COF, but he doesn’t hit enough to be a good COFer.
Is one of the best 90 outfielders in the majors at any given time? Probably. But he’s still someone who is probably a 4th outfielder on a championship team, and if you have him as a starting OFer, you probably look at him as a weakness and that position as one you want to upgrade.
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
If only our other OF options
were 11th best at their positions.
Whose better on this franchise is the question? Cruz? Hamilton (only if healthy). Thats about it. Byrd is better than Murphy or Borbon it appears.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
I think you're...
throwing in the towel on Borbon way too quickly.
Is it possible Byrd will be better than Borbon over the next couple years? Sure. However let’s remember Borbon has only been in the bigs for a couple months.
Borbon is going to continue to improve and Byrd is going to start to decline. For the cost alone, I think the Rangers have to go with Borbon over Byrd.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
So you're comfortable with Borbon in CF
on a pennant contending team? You must be seeing something I ain’t…..Is Byrd a good 4th OF on a CHAMPIONSHIP team, yes……do WE have other/better options? NO….I guess we’ll see if those intangibles mean anything vs. all the sabre stats, ‘cause I expect Byrd to get at least 3yrs/$20M or better, and I bet he’s gone.
X
So you’re comfortable with Borbon in CF on a pennant contending team?
Yes. His arm alone isn’t going to keep him from being a good CFer imo. If your view is that his arm means he shouldn’t play in CF then he shouldn’t be in the OF at all. I don’t think being in LF or RF is going to make his arm much less of a factor.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Yet using War
he’s the 14th best CF in baseball, or an average CF.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
another way to look at WAR (or RAR)
Byrd produced 24.3 RAR in 595 plate appearances. That’s about 0.041 RAR per plate appearance.
Borbon produced 7.6 RAR in 172 plate appearances. That’s about 0.044 RAR per plate appearance.
So Borbon has actually outperformed Byrd this season on a per plate appearance basis, and considering where the two players are on their respective age-performance curves, I’d expect that Borbon’s advantage will increase going forward.
"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out
I'd rather have David Murphy as This Thing's 4th OF.
Somebody who is willing to work the count and work a friggin walk.
Also mirroring Byrds’ season this year.
by TooLegitToQuit on Oct 2, 2009 7:18 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
If the plan involves not hitting him against lefties, I'm in.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Oct 2, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Marlon Byrd
.244/.294/.456 against lefties this year (and a rather meh .273/.335/.435 for his career).
Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock
by LSJ on Oct 2, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
For his career, Byrd has a better OPS vs lefthanders
and posted a .841 OPS last season and .826 the year before last.
OPS is weighted toward slugging, and a .771 OPS is meh any way you slice it.
Are you being intentionally dense?
Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock
by LSJ on Oct 2, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Who else do we have that's 'league average'
in CF on both offense & defense, besides a ‘healthy’(?) Hamilton?
Murphy, Cruz, Borbon...
Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock
by LSJ on Oct 3, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
OT: from what's being discussed but here's how awesome Feliz is
If you go to google search, you only have to type in Neft to get his name to pop up.
So many people have probably searched for him to make it pop up that quick.
Type in Why Does into Google search and look what the suggestions are
by Adam J. Morris on Oct 2, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Holy shit that made me laugh...
“why does my vag smell”
"Stats are like a woman in a fine little bikini. You can see a lot, but you can't see everything." -Dirk A. Tron
why does the inequality sign change when both sides are multiplied or divided by a negative number
I cant tell you how many times I have laid awake at night thinking about that very thing
by BEW on Oct 3, 2009 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Joe's not taking into account the fact that Marlon Byrd is Ron's favorite player ever.
Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock
Ron is the one who will stick him out on the field every fucking day if we sign him.
We sign Byrd, it’s not as a 4th OF. It’s as a full-time CF until either he leaves or Ron leaves.
Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock
by LSJ on Oct 2, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions
But there is no way he takes 4th OF money
he’s going to fetch a pretty nice pay check. So as far as I’m concerned, he’s gone.
fake trade
Kinda random, but I was talking at work to one of my friends, a Kansas City Royals fan, about a made up trade. I know the threads about potential trades are usually dumb and one-sided, but I wanted some of your guys’ thoughts.
We’d get:
Zack Greinke
Yuniesky Betancourt
Royals get:
Josh Hamilton
Elvis Andrus
Scott Feldman
Would you guys do that? Discuss.
You'd get Betancourt again?
Dayton and Trey would probably play him ahead of Elvis, so that may not be the best idea.
Swapping Yuniesky Betancourt for Elvis Andrus?????
I can’t even begin to tell you how terrible and repulsive an idea that is.
Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock
by LSJ on Oct 2, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Anybody that trades for Yuniesky Betancourt should be waterboarded.
See: Moore, Dayton
Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock
by LSJ on Oct 2, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions
so it seems
like I should say thanks but no thanks to this fake trade. AJM, nice to see you in on the convo. I bring the trade up because it seems like the Royals boards refuse to accept anything for Greinke.
You say thanks but no thanks
And then kick them in the balls for their evil plot to pawn the terribleness that is Yuniesky Betancourt off on us.
Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock
by LSJ on Oct 2, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions
haha the thought
of Betancourt at short instead of Elvis is rather awful, yes. What do you think would be a fair offer for Greinke, though?
I dunno
Probably something that we shouldn’t be doing though. If you really want Grink you gotta be prepared to blow a chunk in the top of the farm system. Say Dutch, Perez or Smoak, Salty and Moreland at least.
Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock
by LSJ on Oct 2, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Why would they?
He’s the best pitcher in baseball, he’s cheap, he’s young and him, Soria and Butler are the only good things going for them right now.
One of my co-workers says he will quit following the Rangers if they don't resign Byrd.
I told him he was an idiot.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I've never felt that strongly about a player
And find that odd. But I’ve been pretty close on both Young and Cruz. Just tell him it’s a TEAM.
Try Everything and Anything to Makeitwork.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Oct 3, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not that hard over
but I wouldn’t be too upset if they did re-sign him. I think the team has a legitimite concern about CF if they don’t re-sign him.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
My concern as well
I’m not saying re-sign him at any cost, just that with Josh’s recent history, CF could be a REAL problem, if they hope to contend.
Yeah,
you definitely worry about CF ’10 turning into 1B ’09. Nothing but shitty options, dragging the team down.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
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