Lone Star Ball: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: UNC 77, Ohio State 73

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

found this while poking around the interwebs
Earlier this month, the Dodgers signed Andruw Jones. His signing, and the renewed Pierre-bashing which arose, and the question of just how much Pierre had helped or hurt the Dodgers (and his previous employers) arose. I’m astonished that Jones was able to be signed for such a tiny total contract. Remember this time last year… the Bill James Handbook had projected him for 677 HR in his career, and there was open talk about him making $140MM for 7 years, etc. etc. But it’s a "what have you done for me lately" market, to be sure. Only time will tell whether 2007 was a fluke, or the start of an ugly decline. For me, it seems as though the Dodgers got the best FA bargain I’ve seen among big-ticket signings in recent years.

linky

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland -Tom Grieve Rangers Minor League Player of the Year
Martin Perez - Nolan Ryan Rangers Minor League Pitcher of the Year

by RangerMad on Oct 5, 2009 10:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

lol

I wonder who gave him the second place vote

After Fuentes blows a save and an Angels loss to the Indians:
"Angels still in first place" - UCI Halo
"Hey you know who would have gotten those 3 outs in the 9th?
Darren O’Day." - FirebatM3
LOL

by hinduplaya on Oct 5, 2009 10:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The mind boggles

Seriously…Andruw Jones hit .214 in a part-time role, and got comeback player of the year votes.

That truly puts his horrific 2008 season into perspective.

by Adam J. Morris on Oct 5, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know you've been really fuckin cranky lately

Its the Comeback Player of the Year award. Not MVP, not Silver Slugger, but Comeback Player. And he finished 9th yet you act like thats such a travesty. Seriously? He went from being a guy who OPSed 505 in 2008 with a OPS+ of 34 who hit 3 HR in 200 AB to a guy who made the team on a minor league deal, OPSed 784 with a 103 OPS+ and 17 HR in 280 AB. Is it that much of a stretch that he finished 9th? Chill the fuck out man

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Oct 6, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is the criteria for this award?

I understand it’s either “sucked last year” or “was injured” but this is about the dumbest award there is. ROY makes some sense because you have to, you know, fulfill the criteria to be a rookie. But what’s the criteria for injured or sucking?

It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.

by WyoRanger on Oct 5, 2009 11:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Fuck Andrew Jones...

Scott Feldman – "The greatest Hawaiian-born Jewish baseball player to ever set foot on the mound."

by Section 339 on Oct 5, 2009 11:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I expect him to finish first in...

…most weight gained between opening day and the end of the season.

I offer up as evidence of his pathetic conditioning this damning piece of evidence: he is a 10-time GG centerfielder who at the age of 32 was pinch-run for by David Murphy.

I have no objection to man walking on the moon.

by Chad Crudup on Oct 5, 2009 11:22 PM CDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

No kidding.

That guy looked semi-decent at Spring Training.

At the end of the year he looked like he punished the Super Bar at Wendy’s 5 days a week.

"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz

by Ryin A on Oct 6, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It amazes me

that as recently as 2005, he was a top 3 player in all of baseball, along with Pujols and Bitch Tits. And Andruw is 2 years younger than A-Rod.

He just let himself go to shit and wasted a lot of talent.

"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out

by tricer on Oct 6, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That seems high.

Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock

by lonestarJon on Oct 5, 2009 11:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

AJ's place on the ballot

or the idiots who voted for him?

And mankind is naught but a single nation - Qu'ran 2:213

by devsr on Oct 5, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Both.

I don’t get how he’s in front of Travis Hafner. That’s what blows my mind.

Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock

by lonestarJon on Oct 5, 2009 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

WTF did Russell Branyan come back from?

All he’s done before was suck.

The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...

by Kinslerhomer on Oct 5, 2009 11:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

and Rajai Davis??

lol

The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...

by Kinslerhomer on Oct 5, 2009 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not really "comeback" so much as "breakout" players.

Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock

by lonestarJon on Oct 5, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's really stupid though...

But they are dumb so…

The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...

by Kinslerhomer on Oct 5, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Offseason awards are incredibly stupid

Mainly because they are voted on by people who are incredibly stupid. Until that changes, they’ll always suck.

Unfortunately, it’s the offseason, which means we don’t have much to do other than talk about meaningless awards voted on by stupid people.

Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock

by lonestarJon on Oct 5, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fanshot.

"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris

by Chase Irwin on Oct 5, 2009 11:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Dammit.

"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris

by Chase Irwin on Oct 5, 2009 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

heh

After Fuentes blows a save and an Angels loss to the Indians:
"Angels still in first place" - UCI Halo
"Hey you know who would have gotten those 3 outs in the 9th?
Darren O’Day." - FirebatM3
LOL

by hinduplaya on Oct 6, 2009 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uh...

Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock

by lonestarJon on Oct 5, 2009 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

two things

is anything more meaningless than comeback player of the year?

And 2, AJM said earlier today that Anderson wasn’t being considered for ROY because of his slow start. Well, AJ had the opposite, he started off pretty well, then ended completely useless. But the first impression (he was the clear frontrunner for a few weeks there in May), lasts a long time with some people

Go Rice Owls!

by JBImaknee on Oct 5, 2009 11:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

x
is anything more meaningless than comeback player of the year?

Manager of the year and the gold glove.

Hank is 7 runs below a zombie replacement at first base. Do you realize how terrible that is? Zombie’s can’t think, they’re slow, and they’re often ejected from the game for eating opposing baserunners’ brains. - Ben quantifies Hank Blalock

by lonestarJon on Oct 5, 2009 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

manager of the year, maybe

but at least gold gloves, in principal, represent something useful. Comeback player of the year? Why not just call it the “regression to the mean” award, or “the player whose year-to-year variation had the most noise” award.

Go Rice Owls!

by JBImaknee on Oct 6, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW, no Rangers on the Cal top 20 but
David (Fort Worth): Did any players for the Rangers’ affiliate in Bakersfield merit consideration?

Dave Perkin: Yes—Tanner Roark. With that last name, I’m sure he is Paul DePodesta’s favorite player. Roark was outstanding in a very tough place to play—small crowds, rickety old park, bizarre CF fence and dimensions. As for our list, he was just caught in a numbers crunch—too many good players in the Cal League this year.

The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...

by Kinslerhomer on Oct 5, 2009 11:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe how much he sucked after the 3 hr game

To that point he had been solid up until that point… ended up being another bad season obviously.

I assume he’ll be in the minor leagues to open ’10.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Oct 6, 2009 3:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Why would he accept a minor league assignment?

why wouldn’t he just retire? How old is he?

by jam0152 on Oct 6, 2009 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's 32

and he has made over 100 million in his career.

"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland

by DJCahill on Oct 6, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

how much of that was earned in the last 2 years?

Just curious what he got from the Dodgers, 25M?

"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out

by tricer on Oct 6, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was making 12 mill a year or so

with the Braves his last 6 years there. Then the Dodgers paid him 2/36

"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland

by DJCahill on Oct 6, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well I assume he has a higher opinion of himself than everyone else

And thinks he could play himself back into the mlb in short order and somehow end up with another contract at some point.

I’m sure we will hear what great shape hes in during april!

Obviously retirement is a possibility but I’d be pretty surprised. And of course theres the possibility he actually makes whatever team he signs a NRI with.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Oct 6, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Out of nine?

Because that’s the only feasible explanation

by jam0152 on Oct 6, 2009 8:43 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

how many big comeback stories

do you reckon there are?

"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland

by DJCahill on Oct 6, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

2 things

1. The sad part is someone will probably sign him for cheap. If Giambi and Griffey can keep getting signed, you never know…

2. He was a comeback player. He came back from being shit rotten awful to plain terrible in 1 year. That’s tough to do.

"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)

Hello Win Column!!!

by Arlington Stadium Legend on Oct 6, 2009 9:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

At least the Rangers

didn’t pay him 6 million to suck, like Blalock.

I do find it funny that Murphy gets love, and suggestions in some quarters that he should be one of the three starting OFs, and Andruw Jones needs to be run out on a rail, and Murphy hit .269/.338/.447 and Jones hit .214/.323/.459. Personally, I think they should let Jones go, but I would question anyone’s sanity who is ready to install Murphy as a starter.

"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland

by DJCahill on Oct 6, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Murphy is an avg AL LF

AL LF in 2009: .267 .338 .442

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland -Tom Grieve Rangers Minor League Player of the Year
Martin Perez - Nolan Ryan Rangers Minor League Pitcher of the Year

by RangerMad on Oct 6, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He also had a .320 BABIP

with a speed score of 3.9. That’s going down. It was .300 in ’08.

The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...

by Kinslerhomer on Oct 6, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Cahill's point

is that while Jones was bad, he wasn’t significantly worse than other players on this team, including guys who people revere.

I also love how people around here sneer at anyone using BA to judge a player, but when it is Sammy Sosa or Andruw Jones, and looking at OBP and OPS is inconvenient, out comes the batting average! He hit .214!!!!! What an awful player!!!! (Oh, his OPS was almost .800?…. HE HIT .214!!!!!!)

Go Rice Owls!

by JBImaknee on Oct 6, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jones had a .224 BABIP with a 16% LD%

He was unlucky and Murphy was lucky.

The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...

by Kinslerhomer on Oct 6, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

I’d be completely unsurprised if Jones outhit Murphy next year by a wide margin. Not saying I want Jones back, I’m just saying that I can’t see Murphy as the answer to anything but 4th OF.

"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland

by DJCahill on Oct 6, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would hardly say that Murphy's

.311 BABIP and 20% LD rate are lucky when the lg averages are .299 and 20%. Those numbers are from BR.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland -Tom Grieve Rangers Minor League Player of the Year
Martin Perez - Nolan Ryan Rangers Minor League Pitcher of the Year

by RangerMad on Oct 6, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A 50 point difference in BA is pretty significant

And Murphys line is pretty skewed by his 0-23 start to the year. Whatever it was that caused that I don’t know but from that point on he was a 283/346/471 hitter.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Oct 6, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At the end of the day

OBP is much, much, much more important than BA.

"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland

by DJCahill on Oct 6, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no when you are batting 4th

hard to drive in a runner on 2B with a BB.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland -Tom Grieve Rangers Minor League Player of the Year
Martin Perez - Nolan Ryan Rangers Minor League Pitcher of the Year

by RangerMad on Oct 6, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well,

he probably shouldn’t have been batting fourth, but with a runner on 2B, or a runner anywhere, the most important thing is to not make an out.

"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland

by DJCahill on Oct 6, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

But if you are not gonna make an out ~33% of the time give me the guy with the 270 BA over the guy with the 215 BA.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Oct 6, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you just can't break yourself from the habit

of excluding the portion of the data that happens to be inconvenient for your argument, can you?

If you remove a stretch of Andruw’s ABs that he was ineffective, his overall numbers improve as well. Funny how that works.

"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out

by tricer on Oct 6, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Im just pointing out that Murphy had a horrible start

And his overall numbers were affected by them. He had slumps during the season as well but just like people want to say Andruw wasn’t very good after April Murphy was the opposite. I don’t think its a bad thing to point it out

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Oct 6, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is a bad thing to point out.

Cropping numbers for one player, but not another, is just retarded. You do it all the time.

"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris

by Chase Irwin on Oct 6, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Im a firm believer

in dropping oddities to get a better overall picture. In this case I was just pointing out that since his 0-23 start he was a pretty good freaking player. Just like early in the season where that one outting in Detroit still skewed CJs overall numbers I pointed that out. And just like I point out that in 2007 BMac had a 3 start stretch at the beginning of the season that was so horrific it skewed his overall numbers for the whole year. When people will start realizing that and not look only on the surface then i will stop pointing out oddities like that.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Oct 6, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You might as well

drop all “oddities” then.

In which case, let’s inflate, everyone’s stats!

A significant advantage of statistics is that it allows you to eliminate subjective bias.

By “dropping in oddities,” you are very likely introducing subjective bias back in.

Of course, a nuanced position takes other information into account, but not when you just eliminate “oddities” because it looks “odd.”

Everyone goes through slumps and hot streaks throughout the season. Just because Murphy went on one of his hot streaks at the beginning of the season, does not make a satisfying case for excluding that data from the analysis.

If there’s additional information showing that that data is not his “natural ability” then there is a logical reason to exclude it from the sample.

But there was none. Hence, unless you want to bias the results (which some people like to do), you should not exclude that data.

R

by Requiem on Oct 6, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't call from April 26th till the end of the season a hot streak

Thats sustained success over 5+ months. And I wasn’t taking those at bats out only showing that while on the surface his stats look alot like Andruw Jones’ besides the BA it really wasn’t.

Just like a 4 run inning for a reliever will skew numbers for a long time, and 18 ER over 6 IP for a starter will skew numbers for the whole season.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Oct 6, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bullshit

Look at his month of August and tell me how that’s sustained success.

Oh wait, let’s throw that out, too. Because it doesn’t prove the point we’re trying to make.

And thus the problem with taking out “oddities.”

You have no argument as to WHY the 0-23 is not relevant. You just say it is irrelevant.

Sorry, any right-minded person isn’t going to believe you just because you say it is. Especially people versed in statistics.

This is what people called cherry-picking.

R

by Requiem on Oct 6, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Nice

They can play Cowboys press conferences every fucking day but they can’t play the all whole Rangers after season press conference and ESPN and the Rangers flagship station the Fan don’t even play any of it. Fuck them.

The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...

by Kinslerhomer on Oct 6, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Texas Rangers.
Start posting about the Rangers »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Andrus_jersey2_small
Scheppers and Gutierrez - AFL Rising Stars Game

Recent FanPosts

Roger_the_alien_american_dad_small
Josh Johnson Available?
Ochomerun_small
Who is Josey Wales?
Marion_small
Mavs GDT 11/20/09
Ebbsfleet_united_logo_small
Three way deal only works if...
Small
OT: The global warming hoax exposed?
Img_0225_2_small
Pertinent Fangraphs Articles
Texas-rangers-logo-2_small
Frankie Piliere scouting for fans now
Img_0225_2_small
Rangers AFL Review
Whas_small
Per Jayson Stark - Rangers interested in Uggla
Hicks060509_small
Lincecum wins NL Cy Young

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS


Managers

Th_buckykatt_small Adam J. Morris