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Will Carroll calls out Josey Wales

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

My favorite so far came from Lone Star Ball, where a commenter ("Josey Wales") suggested that the Rays should add in a high quality arm in order to even up a deal of Nelson Cruz for Carl Crawford.

This will probably be the highlight of the offseason.

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God, this is such WIN.

Will Carroll, for the most epic of wins.

What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?

by ghtd36 on Nov 10, 2009 7:51 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

That. Is. Incredible.

"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 10, 2009 7:51 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Genius

I don’t jump into the comment fray that often here, usually just take in Adam’s posts. But I know just enough of the backstory of you knuckleheads to know that this is pure genius from Carroll. You boys couldn’t have asked for more. Well played.

Jack Daddy

by Jack Daddy on Nov 10, 2009 7:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thank you will carroll

Enjoy munching on that nice piece of humility josey

by awiley on Nov 10, 2009 7:59 PM CST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

What Will might have missed

is that earlier in that same thread Josey said this about Cruz:

He’s a good player but he’s going to be 30 years old next year (July 1) and has had exactly one good year in The Show. It’s much better to trade a player one year early than one year late.

I guess that means that Crawford really sucks.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 10, 2009 8:04 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think I want to live in this thread forever. Is there anyway it can be permanently pinned to the top?

"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 10, 2009 8:04 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Oh, this defintely deserves a place in the next LSB almanac

Somebody go get GoET, quick!

"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS

"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire

by lonestarJon on Nov 10, 2009 8:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why can't I rec this more than once?

If ever there was a time for a multiple rec option…

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Nov 10, 2009 8:16 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

21 recs in less than an hour

This bad boy may set an LSB record for recs.

"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 10, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What that means, friends...

…is that if you haven’t rec’d this already, do so. It’s below the actual post, just below the ads.

What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?

by ghtd36 on Nov 10, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Swear I thought Wails was joking there but he wasn't

I’m sure he’ll claim he was.

It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.

by WyoRanger on Nov 10, 2009 8:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

This is Awesome

lmao…rofl. rofl rofl rofl

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Nov 10, 2009 8:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The green is going up fast.

Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.

by jonthefon on Nov 10, 2009 8:49 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The thing is

I doubt Josey will post in here

Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law

by Keynes on Nov 10, 2009 8:50 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

With any luck, this will shame him from posting on the interwebs ever again

"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 10, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if only this were true

he would just change his screen name and come back as the troll he is.

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Nov 10, 2009 8:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no it won't

JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook

by laxtonto on Nov 10, 2009 8:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

this'll just make him feel important

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Nov 10, 2009 8:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yep

same thing when Bill James dashed his GS theory

JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook

by laxtonto on Nov 10, 2009 9:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I am supposed to respect the opinion of Will Carroll why?

He’s one of Jamey’s boys that comes in every year to talk to the idiots who’s sole purpose in life is to suck and swallow what Little Boy Donuts has to offer when he’s nothing more than some kind of injury analysis injury guy or somesuch?

Glad to know he’s checking in with Josey Wales.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 10, 2009 11:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He wasn't checking in with you troll...

he was laughing at you.

There’s a big difference.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 10, 2009 11:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Who gives a shit

what Will Carroll thinks?

The Texas Rangers shouldn’t give up Nelson Cruz (who could help the Rays immensely) for one year of a $ 10 million Carl Crawford without anything else thrown in.

Do you really think one year of Carl Crawford v four years of Nelson Cruz straight up is an even deal, you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?

I’m laughing at Will Carroll for not getting all his rumors straight before confirming them to be true.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 10, 2009 11:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?

Hahahahaha

by Too Legit To quit on Nov 10, 2009 11:41 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Do you wanna deal 4 years of Cruz

for one year of CCrawford with nothing else thrown in?

I don’t.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 10, 2009 11:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just laughing at that comment.

Don’t care to discuss Nelson Cruz or Carl Crawford

by Too Legit To quit on Nov 10, 2009 11:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course

you don’t because I’m correct.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 10, 2009 11:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to hear from Ed Coffin on this...

he’s a noted devotee to Nelson Cruz and knowing how Tampa & Texas both apparently need to adhere to small market payrolls, I wonder how he’d feel about giving up 4 years of Nelson Cruz for one $ 10 million year of Carl Crawford.

Wanna advance a discussion?

Step up, old man.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 12:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ahahaha

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 11, 2009 12:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Little Brother

has spoken.

Everybody try not to roll their eyes, giggle or smirk.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 12:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed.

Nobody takes me seriously, at all! If only I could come up with half-baked opinions completely ungrounded in fact and become a singular object of frustration on an otherwise pleasant discussion board, then I would have it made.

"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin

by benmor78 on Nov 11, 2009 12:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

From what I've read

you’d probably fuck that up as well.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 12:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, Josey...

you’re feelings are hurt. Go get yourself some ice cream, it will make you feel better.

"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin

by benmor78 on Nov 11, 2009 12:29 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Feelings hurt?

No, I wouldn’t give up 4 years of Nelson Cruz for one year of Carl Crawford without anything else kicked in.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 12:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course not

After all, he’s only had one good season in The Show, is 30 years old, can’t hit LH pitching, and is a stupid sunnava bitch

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 11, 2009 12:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, the cognitive dissonance is amazing.

Josey Wales has zero self-awareness.

"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin

by benmor78 on Nov 11, 2009 12:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yep

but, Thank You Josey for entering this thread to do your usually business. It makes it that much sweeter.

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Nov 11, 2009 7:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How many times have you used BP

as something to buttress your ridiculous arguments? Now, though, it’s who cares about Will Carroll?

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 11, 2009 7:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it's not like you ever add anything to the discussion...

besides being a smartass…..sad.

Wash is an idiot!!

by bspate on Nov 11, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and...

we have the CD vs Blalock discussion for next year… no matter what Cruz does or what Crawford does… or which teams they play for… Cruz is always going to come out on top.

BTW, I would take 4 years of CD over 1 year of $6M Blalock. Discuss…

by JShoe on Nov 11, 2009 8:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Game. Set. Match.

"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS

"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire

by lonestarJon on Nov 11, 2009 1:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I know.

Desperation is a stinky cologne. Are we witnessing the unraveling of Josey Wales?

What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?

by ghtd36 on Nov 10, 2009 11:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The clown has been...

mentally unraveled for some time now.

It’s pretty funny to see him lose his cool though.

You stupid motherfucker! I’m a gifted writer! I’m a gifted writer!!

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 10, 2009 11:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I feel like now whenever I read a Josey post...

…I should listen to this while doing so.

What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?

by ghtd36 on Nov 10, 2009 11:58 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Josey, pwned.

What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?

by ghtd36 on Nov 10, 2009 11:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and everyone else

is laughing at you because you are such a stupid motherfucker.

"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland

by DJCahill on Nov 11, 2009 4:02 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

dang

so many people have been sucked into a vortex by josey wales.

crazy. he’s probably saying, dance minions, dance…heh.

anyways, isn’t Crawford a FA after next year?

usa

by Longhorn on Nov 10, 2009 9:03 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

no baseball talk in this thread, please

This space is reserved exclusively for the thorough trashing that Josey deserves. The guy terrorized this site for an entire season with his garbage — that he gets called out for this nonsense by one of the premier baseball writers online is pure justice.

I’ll be saving the link to this thread and using it in any future response to that troll. God willing I’ll be able to show the restraint I had most season and ignore him, but when I can’t, out will come this link!

by alon91 on Nov 10, 2009 9:07 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm considering adopting a link to this post as my signature for the foreseeable future

"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 10, 2009 9:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

An inside joke, but oh how funny

"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS

"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire

by lonestarJon on Nov 10, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The current sponsorship

Hal Peabody sponsor(s) this page.

Hank suffered through a tough 2006 with a shoulder injury that required off season surgery. This season look for him to re-establish himself as an All-Star.
You can sponsor a page.
Page Expires: 2009-12-11 Alert Me!

by cmkelly29 on Nov 10, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you are falling victim to the fallacy of

assuming that because Team A won’t do a specific trade that Team B would. Cruz for Crawford might not make sense for the Rangers, but that in no way lessens the absurdity, for the Rays, of Crawford + quality arm for Cruz.

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Nov 11, 2009 12:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait huh? Who are you responding to here.

"you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?" - Josey Wales

by cmkelly29 on Nov 11, 2009 8:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

im responding to Josey like 30 posts down

this was one of those weird times where you hit reply and it goes in the wrong subthread.

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Nov 11, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i'm here everyday

and never post, but this is classic. thank you, josey d. wales!

lmao!

by Phat Elvis on Nov 10, 2009 9:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Wow...

Will Carroll FTFW

Fuck Mike Estabrook

by Horns130 on Nov 10, 2009 9:37 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Haha...

You’re welcome LSB.

I didn’t realize starting that sub-thread would lead to the troll being exposed so badly by Will Carroll though. That’s funny shit right there.

Although I said I wouldn’t deal Cruz for Crawford either, so perhaps I’m one of those guys who overrates the players on his favorite team. Just can’t see giving up 4 years of Nellie for one of Crawford. Oh well.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 10, 2009 9:42 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

it's funny

but doesn’t it kind of suck that BP readers will think that is the the type of commenter LSB has?

everybody here represents the site…which is why i wouldn’t mind a more liberal use of the ban stick

by ab03 on Nov 10, 2009 10:05 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

At least if they read the thread...

they might realize there’s only one.

I want to keep unreccing it just to rec it again.

Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.

by jonthefon on Nov 10, 2009 10:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

There’s enough of us LSBers on BP that hopefully they won’t get the wrong idea about us…

"I cannot believe how fucking off base I was about Tiny E before this season. The Kid is great and is going to become a star."

- Wails

by RCCook on Nov 10, 2009 11:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully this thread will serve to let them know exactly who Josey is

But that’s a sobering point.

"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS

"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire

by lonestarJon on Nov 11, 2009 1:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Somewhere Hank F. is laughing

or crying I don’t know which

by RangersSD on Nov 10, 2009 10:16 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hahahahaha

Lisa, if the Bible has taught us nothing else - and it hasn't - it's that girls should stick to girls' sports, such as hot-oil wrestling, foxy boxing, and such-and-such.

Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Thursdays, 10 PM - 1 AM, on FM 88.7 The Choice, or online @ ktcu.net!

by Maximilian on Nov 10, 2009 10:31 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Wow.

That’s pretty sweet.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"Especially stinkbeetles!!!" -God.

by thedirkatron on Nov 10, 2009 10:37 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

oh my lord ya'll done harpooned Josey Whales...

I can’t look anymore….

Good help doesn't come cheap.

- Gil LeBreton

by BigGuns on Nov 10, 2009 10:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Has any single post or thread...

ever received 100 rec’s?

If not, it’s gonna happen here.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 10, 2009 10:50 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I believe the old record was 54

Held by GoET’s LSB users guide (2.0).

Needless to say we’ve shattered that here tonight.

"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS

"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire

by lonestarJon on Nov 11, 2009 1:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

sometimes I think you guys take this whole situation a bit too far...

then I see Josey show up and post in this very thread. which if it were me, I would steer clear of, alltogether. maybe disappear for a few months.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Nov 10, 2009 11:50 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Do you think the Rangers should give up 4 years of Cruz

for one year of Crawford and nothing else?

Really?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 10, 2009 11:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I love it

Just keep on digging.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 11, 2009 12:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you are falling victim to the fallacy

assuming that because Team A won’t do a specific trade that Team B would. Cruz for Crawford might not make sense for the Rangers, but that in no way lessens the absurdity, for the Rays, of Crawford + quality arm for Cruz.

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Nov 11, 2009 12:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The more logical a post, the less likely Josey is to respond.

It’s amazing how much it works. Or if he does, he’ll go after you with your reserved middle-school-caliber insult.

Mine is inflatable girlfriend, I don’t know what yours is.

by philkid3 on Nov 12, 2009 1:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

in the immortal words of Jack Nicholson

“Go sell your crazy somewhere else, we’re all stocked up here.”

by MikeEl on Nov 11, 2009 12:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OR ... "You need me on that wall" +

“I am the motherfucking shore patrol”

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 12:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ya know

We really don’t need you on that or any wall. In fact, we’re probably better off without that wall all together. Feel free to jump off whenever you like. Please.

by MikeEl on Nov 11, 2009 12:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, we DO need him on that wall.

Do you really think terrorists would come anywhere near our country if they saw how batshit insane Josey is?

by jwiscarson on Nov 11, 2009 1:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it's hilarious that he quotes that line

i wonder if he was booing when they arrested nicholson.

now that i see the parallels between that character and josey, i’m going to stop talking about him. he’s probably a few ticks from going bat shit crazy and trying to rip someone’s eyes out

by ab03 on Nov 11, 2009 9:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You can always hide behind Tom Cruise

He’ll outcrazy Jack any day of the week now

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 11, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

did I ever say that?

there’s no reason for the “really.”

I’m saying these people take things a bit too far whenever it comes to you and your spiel – but when you react and respond, it reminds me why they take things so far.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Nov 11, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Inserting my name

in this epic thread. Wow.

I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan

by FirebatM3 on Nov 11, 2009 12:33 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you.

Let the record show I was there, and all I got was this lousy post.

"you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?" - Josey Wales

by cmkelly29 on Nov 11, 2009 8:01 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

+1

I will remember this day for quite some time

by chrisR on Nov 11, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

does anyoen have a link to the original thread the comment was in??

After Fuentes blows a save and an Angels loss to the Indians:
"Angels still in first place" - UCI Halo
"Hey you know who would have gotten those 3 outs in the 9th?
Darren O’Day." - FirebatM3
LOL

by hinduplaya on Nov 11, 2009 1:25 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

in the Tuesday am thread

Good help doesn't come cheap.

- Gil LeBreton

by BigGuns on Nov 11, 2009 1:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.

Haven’t been around much lately, but this was worth the visit today.

Greatness in every sense of the word.

by behindthebag on Nov 11, 2009 1:31 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

We'll all remember where we were

when this happened.

That's why they call them business sox

by egriffey on Nov 11, 2009 2:03 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

yep

still funny though

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Nov 11, 2009 7:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I have no big comment

I just want to be part of history

by BEW on Nov 11, 2009 2:58 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

May I join you?

Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair.

by Joker'z on Nov 11, 2009 10:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Had this not been so publically called out, it would've been a neat piece of trolling.

Step 1. Set the trade return expectations on Cruz absurdly high.
Step 2. Berate Daniels once he is inevitably unable to recoup the level of talent expected.

by LiamP on Nov 11, 2009 3:07 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

That was a thought I had yesterday

when I read the post in the first place. No matter what is traded for Bradley, Crawford or anyone else he’ll either berate it or say it only worked out because of Nolan.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 11, 2009 7:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nolan observes the media

before implementing massive changes.

"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris

by Chase Irwin on Nov 11, 2009 7:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well played, LSJ

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 11, 2009 7:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

awesome, rec

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Nov 11, 2009 7:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that's a good point

Surely the guy doesn’t have a day job. I think his life revolves around plotting to make JD look bad on this website. Which I know just kills JD.

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 11, 2009 7:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Next Newberg night ...

Folks need to remind Carroll of this and give him a standing ovation.

by northtexan95 on Nov 11, 2009 7:30 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Excellent idea

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 11, 2009 7:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Naw, that's going too far

Josey gets too much attention anyway, no need to soil Newberg Night.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 11, 2009 7:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If I'm there...

it’s happening.

"you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?" - Josey Wales

by cmkelly29 on Nov 11, 2009 8:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

but wouldn't it be nicer, if there was a ban

and Josey became a distant memory

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Nov 11, 2009 8:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If he were banned, this never woulda happened.

"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz

by Ryin A on Nov 11, 2009 4:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But now that it has happened it's ok to ban him.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 11, 2009 8:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

valid point

"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz

by Ryin A on Nov 11, 2009 9:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

as great as this post is

can we get a pick’em update so that we can all bask in my complete domination?

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Nov 11, 2009 8:11 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Words

can’t describe the joy I’m feeling.

You just don't sit in a rocking chair, when you've built a revolution.

by Escher on Nov 11, 2009 8:11 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Whee!

Now ban him.

by bhudson on Nov 11, 2009 8:13 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

not to be a downer

but there is no way this team should consider trading four years of Cruz for one year of Crawford straight up.

But it isn’t so much that the Rays need to add something to the deal, its that the deal doesn’t make sense for either side. The Rangers need to parlay Cruz into a long term answer at position of need (although some might argue a middle of the lineup RH OF bat would qualify), and if the Rays trade Crawford coming off a career year, they will want a package of young guys.

But in truth, we are nearing the point in the economics of baseball where one year of a great OF at $10M is worth less than four cheap years of a good OF, so JW’s sentiments can’t be deemed too far off from the truth.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 11, 2009 8:17 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

I'm sure some people do

but I also feel there are some people who jump onto threads like this just to be “part of the gang.”

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 11, 2009 9:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yep.

Wash is an idiot!!

by bspate on Nov 11, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Fascinating study in group psychology and yeah, Clark got it right ("there is no way this team should consider trading four years of Cruz for one year of Crawford")

Everybody is whooping it up because somebody like Will Carroll made it a point to publicly throw me under the bus but the big problem with all this is that Will Carroll is dead bleeping wrong and is demonstrating that he doesn’t know a freaking thing about Nelson Cruz.

I think the Rangers have control of him for the next 4 years while Crawford is tethered to the Rays for only one very expensive year.

Without Tampa kicking in anything else, that’s a good trade for the Rangers?!?!

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 8:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

god you're a fucking moron

for whatever reason my script thing isn’t working and i have to read your retarded comments (which I avoided for 3 or so months) but you’re the same old annoying piece of shit.

THE RAYS WOULD NOT DO THE TRADE!

Fucktard. Stupid dumbass fucktard.

by ab03 on Nov 11, 2009 8:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...the point is not that Cruz for Crawford plus would be a good idea for the Rangers

The point is that the Rays would NEVER consider that deal and would laugh in the face of anyone thinking they should give up Crawford AND a high impact arm for just Cruz.

I like Cruz as much as anyone, but to say that Tampa should realistically provide us Crawford and something else for him is lunacy. Which was Carroll’s point.

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 11, 2009 8:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Rays have been doing what they can to shed payroll

which was probably one of the considerations in trading Kazmir for 50 cents on the dollar and they also just sent Iwamura to Pittsburgh because he was due, what $ 5 million(?) next year?

Carl Crawford is likely gone after 2010 because he’s about to cash in (free agency while still in his prime).

Nelson Cruz is tethered to the Rangers for four years meaning you have cost certainty in 2010 and control of a pretty good player for three years after that.

If Texas is going to provide Tampa with four years of Nelson Cruz, cost certainty in 2010 and the ability to shed payroll so they can add somebody else, damn right I’m going to ask them for something else.

Will Carroll is fairly accomplished in baseball circles but on this particular issue, he’s a dumbass.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 9:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

x
Will Carroll is fairly accomplished in baseball circles but on this particular issue, he’s a dumbass.

Well he sure made you look silly, fuckstick.

"you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?" - Josey Wales

by cmkelly29 on Nov 11, 2009 9:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How?

You think the Rangers should accept one year of a $ 10 million Carl Crawford for 4 years of Nelson Cruz straight up?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 9:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think many of us would be a fan of 1 year of Crawford for 4 of Cruz

But Crawford AND an arm for Cruz is a laughable deal for the Rays, which is the point of this exercise.

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 11, 2009 9:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's what I think:

Crawford + “Quality Arm” for Nelson Cruz is insane.

"you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?" - Josey Wales

by cmkelly29 on Nov 11, 2009 9:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So

would you do one year of Carl Crawford for four years of Nelson Cruz?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 9:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't be a huge fan of a 1 for 1 deal, no.

Would I do Crawford plus a “Quality Arm” for Cruz? Hell to the yes. Would the Rays? FUCK NO.

Dude, do you not understand what Carroll + everyone here is saying to you?

"you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?" - Josey Wales

by cmkelly29 on Nov 11, 2009 9:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That reminds me of the comment in the LSB User's Guide about proposing a deal like Felix Hernandez for Travis Metcalf

Just because one side would jump on it in a heartbeat doesn’t mean it’s not a stupid, idiotic proposal that should be lampooned for the rest of eternity.

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 11, 2009 9:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say that I wanted the Rays

to kick in David Price or Wade Davis.

Is that the disconnect?

“High quality arm” can mean a lot of thiings but I’d prefer it be a starter who can be depended on to effectively take the bump 30 times a year and not kill his team.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 9:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So you want a LAIE?

And you think that Crawford plus LAIE is a good deal that the Rays would go for?

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 11, 2009 9:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Rays wouldn't only be receiving Cruz...

they’d also be receiving room on the payroll to do other things so we’re not talking talent for talent.

I assume that’s one of the big reasons they traded Kazmir for next to nothing.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 9:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They traded Kazmir because he's kind of been sucking lately

And was way overpaid for what he was giving them.

Crawford is an entirely different animal. He’s getting paid a lot, but he’s also kinda good.

It’s apples and oranges.

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 11, 2009 9:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tampa didn't get equal value for Kazmir

but that wasn’t the utility they were looking for from the Angels.

The utility they received was getting that contract off their books so they could spend money on other things to help their club.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Look

Here’s why a one for one swap isn’t even despite the fact that Cruz is more controllable and cheaper.

Crawford, despite being nearly a year younger than Cruz, is a 3 time all-star, and an 8 year veteran. In many ways, Crawford is like Ichiro-lite. (not quite as good a hitter, not quite as good a fielder, though every bit as good a baserunner and with a bit more power.)

The likelyhood is that Cruz won’t even have an 8 year career. (well, not 8 full years.) He’ll have a good 3 to 4 year run, then be a backup for a while, and then fade off into the distance.

Crawford, on the other hand, could play another 8 years in the league and post a couple of monster years along the way.

I’d include BP’s numbers on this, but they are based on the years up through 2008, which was not a good year for Crawford.

by iblum on Nov 13, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure if you guys know this....

….but Josey has some of the dead worst reading comprehension on this entire board. I mean, the worst.

by FuturePants on Nov 11, 2009 9:07 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

especially compared

to Texas Dawg, who is sometimes mistaken for Mr. Webster himself…/

by kevinkinsler on Nov 11, 2009 9:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the laughable part

is that you also think they should throw in a quality arm.

by MikeEl on Nov 11, 2009 9:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, there is a small grain of sanity in what Josey said

that one year of Crawford should not be valued too highly. But, one year of a very consistently highly valuable player entering his age 29 season is just not the same as Cruz, even as cheap as Cruz is.

I would not trade for Carl Crawford. He’d require too much going the other way. But Josey’s proposal is still utterly ridiculous in terms of what would realistically happen. Tampa would laugh until it hurt at that proposal. Josey’s proposal is almost like saying one year of Halladay is just not worth a few years of Scott Feldman unless the Jays throw in some good young arm.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 11, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps

but Cruz’s numbers this year were actually better than Crawford’s 07 and 08 numbers. It is only because Crawford had a career year in ’09 that this is “laughable.”

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 11, 2009 9:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No

it’s because of the very different histories of the players. Crawford has been a solid player for several years at the big league level, ranging from $12.4M to $24.6M in value the last 6 seasons. Cruz has one very good year. And that very good year you mentioned is a big part of why Josey’s trade is so ridiculous, his value is much higher now than it was a year ago.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 11, 2009 11:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Greatness

That is all..

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Nov 11, 2009 8:28 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Every now and then, I fall on the side of Josey's argument

This is one of them.

Carroll surely could have found a crazier trade idea.

All Josey was saying is that he wouldn’t be interested in a Cruz for Crawford deal, one for one. If you threw in a high quality arm, he would.

I think at the base of the argument, most here would agree.

Now whether Tampa Bay would laugh at the idea or just hang up the phone, I don’t know. But even JD wouldn’t make the one for one deal.

by texasraider on Nov 11, 2009 8:49 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Dear Josey -

I hate you and you are a stupid sonovabitch. This news makes me very happy. I hope you go away forever because you provide no insight, no intelligence, no thoughtful comments, and nothing positive to this website, ever. I know you think you are the only smart one here, but you are in fact simply the most stubborn and dumbest poster here.

You are fail embodied.

by FuturePants on Nov 11, 2009 9:11 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

all of his replies prove a few things

some of them kind of sad things:

- he isn’t just schtick

- he doesn’t do this just for the attention

- he actually believes everything he says

- he actually thinks he’s rational

Unbelievable. It’d be one thing if he just said Will Carroll he was an idiotbut I like how he tried to parse down his stupid trade suggestion to convince people that he’s right. He’s really not a troll in the same vein as Sharky. He’s just a stupid, stubborn malcontent.

At least trolls are fun and most boards seem like they have some guy who just offers schtick. This dude is just annoying and unamusing. And I shudder to think what will eventualy happen to someone’s psyche after it becomes apparent that so many people wish so many bad things on him.

I hope I’m not on some sniper list.

by ab03 on Nov 11, 2009 9:18 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

Funny

And what I think is great is that the comment itself was very middle of the road, mild even for Josey. Cruz for Crawford may well be a bad deal, but asking for a premium pitcher is obviously over the top. But any number of silly posters could make a similarly silly claim (“Salty for Buchholz is fine, but only if they throw someone else, like Bowden, in” – remember those posters?). So it means that Will Carroll regularly reads the comments to see that the silly trade suggestion is more than just a fan without perspective, but part of a long history of almost intentionally wrongly thought out (but actually traceable) logic.

So, bottom line: Hi Will.

Go Rice Owls!

by JBImaknee on Nov 11, 2009 9:29 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yes, it means WCarroll regularly reads LSB

and has been lurking in the weeds waiting for his moment. The only problem is that I’m not wrong on this one.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure you're the only one that thinks you're not wrong

It must be lonely on your planet.

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 11, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

more importantly

the rays think he is wrong and i’m pretty sure the rays have no intention of giving up someone else along with crawford to get one player that is the same caliber as cruz. but i bet if the rays front office came to josey and told him that, josey would just tell them they are wrong.

by ab03 on Nov 11, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And then tell Andrew Friedman that he's a dumbass

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 11, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Andrew Friedman is what I would consider to be

“a very good young GM.”

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So you'd trade

one year of Carl Crawford at $ 10 million for four years of Nelson Cruz straight up?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

x

Link!

What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?

by ghtd36 on Nov 11, 2009 9:51 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Greatness

I will now hear that song every time I read Josey’s posts. Which is perfect, considering the circus-like qualities of his arguments.

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 11, 2009 9:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No.

Of course I wouldn’t… nor would anyone else on this board. In fact, I think everyone on the board actually loves your idea of getting Crawford plus quality Arm for Cruz. Let’s do it.

Oh wait… the Rays aren’t fucking idiots.

by JShoe on Nov 11, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So you think the Rangers need something else from Tampa if

if we get one year of Carl Crawford for four years of Nelson Cruz…fair enough.

What do you ask the Rays for in addition to one year of Carl Crawford?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I would.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 11, 2009 1:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

though I'd add

not with the current Rangers ownership situation, I’d wait until that was resolved and offer an extension.

I like Cruz, but he’s something of a wild card with a very uneven history. Crawford is younger and better and $10M is just not that bad, less than he was worth last year. I’d take the risk of one year of Crawford, maybe extend him, maybe take the draft choices.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 11, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Only your sense of self-importance

surpasses your stupidity.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 11, 2009 1:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You know what is really funny about all of this?

Josey is forced to stick with his argument. Normally, he’d run away by now and hope everyone forgot about his stupid trade proposal. But he can’t. He must defend his honor or some crap.

Josey, you want me to help you out by asking some direct questions so you can run away for a while?

by cstorm15 on Nov 11, 2009 9:50 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Just for comparisons sake:

Nelson Cruz WAR:
07: -0.1
08: 1.6
09: 3.6

Crawford WAR:
04: 4.7 07: 3.1
05: 4.9 08: 2.7
06: 4.5 09: 5.5

I’m not saying I’d give up on 4 years of Cruz so easily, especially for a one year player, but there’s an argument to be made that a 28 year old (1-2 years of prime left) Crawford could be worth it. It’s just a not a great argument for this team until we find out what the financial situation is like. If you could somehow extend Crawford (assuming you could afford it), it would be worth it.

But it’s almost the equivalent of someone offering you 3 years of a cheap Marlon Byrd for Josh Hamilton at the end of last year, if Hamilton only had one year left on his contract and had been putting up 4 WAR seasons for 5 years. OK, so that’s a stretch, but just to give you a rough equivalent WAR wise so you can think about it from the other side. If someone came to you last year with that, you would say no. If you were going to trade Hamilton, you’d want higher upside and more youth.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Nov 11, 2009 9:56 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

If I can sign Crawford to an extension

that changes everything and I’m not asking for a high quality arm.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 9:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

When is the portion of the show...

…where you chase around scantily clad women on sped-up film?

What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?

by ghtd36 on Nov 11, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

and then in a startling turn of events, they start chasing him!

I think that curveball is what made it really funny

by ab03 on Nov 11, 2009 10:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Amazing

I just had to leave my mark on this thread. And add an additional rec. This should be the highest thing in LSB history.

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Nov 11, 2009 10:19 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Wow

Josey goes down with the ship. Credit for that right??

by ravscloC on Nov 11, 2009 10:20 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

The hilarious part...

…is that most everyone agrees that would be a great deal for the Rangers, but Josey continues the argument anyway. It’s like when someone says they found their keys in the last place they looked, except Josey would keep looking

"The pitcher has got only a ball. I've got a bat. So the percentage of weapons is in my favor..." Hank Aaron

by sunlegend54 on Nov 11, 2009 10:38 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Josey doesn't comprehend well

Though it’s been explained multiple times that the Rays would say no to Crawford plus quality arm for Cruz, he keeps ranting about how the Rangers shouldn’t do the trade without the quality arm. Greatness. Now, let’s start a new proposal. We send Murphy to the Jays for Halladay, but we are going to need them to throw in a quality arm since Murphy is cheap and the Halladay only has 1 year left.

"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)

Hello Win Column!!!

by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 11, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We need to settle the definition first...
"High quality arm" can mean a lot of things but I’d prefer it be a starter who can be depended on to effectively take the bump 30 times a year and not kill his team.

By Josey’s definition we can’t make a trade with Toronto for a starter, no starter besides Halladay had 30 games. We might be willing to accept Jason Frasor or Ricky Romero though.

"The pitcher has got only a ball. I've got a bat. So the percentage of weapons is in my favor..." Hank Aaron

by sunlegend54 on Nov 11, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

X

Good help doesn't come cheap.

- Gil LeBreton

by BigGuns on Nov 11, 2009 10:53 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

I have no idea what the backstory is here, but I'd certainly rather have Cruz than CC, when contract is considered.

One year at $10M for four years at, perhaps, a total of $15M? I’ll take the latter with slightly lower production.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 11, 2009 11:02 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

You should probably checkout the backstory then...

"you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?" - Josey Wales

by cmkelly29 on Nov 11, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is the backstory...big steve and myself were kicking around ideas yesterday.

“I wouldn’t mind exploring what Tampa would be asking for Carl Crawford personally. Hes a FA after this year which means Tampa probably is going to look into trading him. Trading Crawford for Cruz would allow them to play Desmond Jennings in LF and also upgrade their RF situation with Cruz replacing Gross and Kapler.

It would allow us to take a little extra time making a decision on Borbon. Either sign a Mike Cameron or resign Byrd to play CF, Murphy is your 4th OF, and Borbon goes back to OKC to start the year. If we resign Crawford next winter great. If we fall out of the race this year we can trade him at the deadline. If we can’t resign him we get picks back.

As for what it would take i don’t know. Maybe Cruz + Main + a lower level high upside arm? I don’t really know to be honest but i think we should kick the tires on it"

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 10, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

“For Cruz, I’m asking Tampa to kick in another high quality
arm to go along with Crawford.”

“Dying ain’t hard. It’s living that’s hard.”
“Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal”
by Josey Wales on Nov 10, 2009 2:16 PM EST up rep

And then Will Carroll chimes in last night.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's not the backstory he's referring to

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Nov 11, 2009 11:15 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Sky

Welcome aboard or back…whatever.

If the Rangers were to make a deal with the Rays involving CC & Cruz, what else should the Rangers ask for from the Rays?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sky, a word of advice:

Whenever you read his posts, listen to this while doing so.

It’s starting to become pretty common practice around here.

What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?

by ghtd36 on Nov 11, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Because we live in the real world

where when JD tells Tampa that he wants them to throw in a high quality arm with their superstar player to get Cruz, Tampa politely tells him to fuck off and hangs up.

And of course you haven’t been here for all of Josey’s posts describing just how terrible of a player Cruz is. How he can’t hit LH pitching, how his bad routes to balls make him a horrible OF, how he’s 30 years old with only one good full season, and of course the countless number of posts he made before this past season saying how Cruz would never be a successful baseball player. And there was no wiggling out of it for JW. He flat out would say that Cruz would never do anything.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 11, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Run away, Sky!

I don’t want to see you turn into a pillar of salt, too.

by jwiscarson on Nov 11, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

Feel like kicking in a “high quality” arm with CC?

by LiamP on Nov 11, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree TB would not do this, but I do think they realize it's what's fair.

1. Fans would revolt.
2. The front office would become a laughing stock.
3. They could get a much much better deal for CC, because of other teams’ ignorance.

Let’s throw some framework out there for analyzing this. Feel free to change the number to match how you see these players going forward.

CC
4 WAR in 2010 + Type A picks = ($18M FA value – $10M salary) + $5M = $13M in excess value over free agent rates.

Cruz
3.5 WAR in 2010 = ($16M FA value – $.5M salary)
3.0 WAR in 2011 = ($14M FA value – $3M salary)
2.5 WAR in 2012 = ($11M FA value – $6M salary)
2.0 WAR in 2013 = ($9M FA value – $8M salary)
Total = $32.5M in excess value over free agent rates.

That’s a difference of about $20M between the two players. By Victor Wang’s research, that’s 50% more valuable than a top ten pitching prospect (truly elites excepted).

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 11, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you

Nothing like quantification to remove any question.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -

"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce

by Ed Coffin on Nov 11, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm happy to have people argue for different numbers, too.

Maybe you think Crawford’s more like a 5 WAR player in 2010 (he was a bit of even that in 2009). That adds $4.5M to his trade value.

And maybe you think Nelson Cruz will be merely average going forward, at 2.5, 2.5, 2.0, and 2.0 WAR the next four years. That’s $9M less in excess value (although he’d probably earn less in arbitration for playing worse, too.) So we’ve closed the gap to $5M between the two player-contracts, worth less than a top 50 pitching prospect.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 11, 2009 8:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

here's a better way to analyze this

was will carroll wrong? or is he making the same point we’re all making – that the rays would never do the deal?

the rays would never do the deal
the rays would never do the deal
the rays would never do the deal

maybe if you read it enough times you will understand the point being made.

the rays will never do the deal
the rays will never do the deal

also, what happened with seattle? weren’t they going to finish ahead of us? what happened with us? weren’t we going to suck?

by ab03 on Nov 12, 2009 10:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And what if Tampa Bay did actually put Crawford on the market

How much is the package of prospects they could get for him worth? How much is another player they could get in a trade worth to them?

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 11, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You should probably

check out every A.M. thread during the 09 season before you get too deep into this topic.

"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz

by Ryin A on Nov 11, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I came, I saw,

I rec’d.

There’s no crying in baseball but pedicures are fine! --- BigGuns

by RachelB on Nov 11, 2009 11:03 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

When all the fun dies down

I think you have to credit Josey with an accurate initial point. Nobody gives a crap what Tampa woiuld or would not do in a trade that won’t be proposed by anyone or executed even in weak minded fantasy transactions. You simply don’t send a middle of the order bat, your second best hitter and second best defender, who you have cheaply for four years for one year of a top of the order bat who costs 14 times as much per year. Even moreso when your four year mid-order bat is also your second best defender (Elvis is good in a more critical defensive position). I have always liked Carl Crawford, but not for Nelson Cruz straight up and not even if Tampa sent cash to adjust. Will of course looked at it from the trade angle, as have many here, which is pure supposition – shouldn’t happen, couldn’t happen, won’t happen. And thus no point in hyposthesizing what Tampa would or would not have to do. Trade talk gets berserk.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -

"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce

by Ed Coffin on Nov 11, 2009 11:08 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Slowly but surely logic is beginning to surface.

If you read the exchange from yesterday, bigsteve was wanting the Rangers to give up 4 years of Nelson Cruz, the ability to have more room on their payroll plus the rights to one of the better young pitchers in the minors AND another lower level arm for one year of Carl Crawford at $ 10 million.

That’s waaaaaaaaay too much for the Rangers to give up especially when you factor in the utility Tampa gets by having more room on their payroll to do other things.

That’s why I said and maintain that the Rangers would need a high quality arm (not DPrice or WDavis) from Tampa before I’d make that trade.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If Nelson Cruz was guaranteed to continue his production of 2009 then I would not want to trade him

But hes not, and you’ve been one of the guys who has gone out of his way to point that fact out. Cruz is not a building block player mainly due to his age. He can help us out next year and possibly in 2011 but beyond that you are looking at a guy who is most likely on the downside of his career and could drop off significantly.

Carl Crawford would help the Rangers out in 2010 pretty significantly. It would open up a full time RF spot for Hamilton, it would keep David Murphy from playing 100+ games in LF, and regardless of what you do in CF (Borbon or FA) your OF defense is pretty nice. It also allows you to move Kinsler down to the middle of the order permanently.

After 2010 you can either sign Crawford to an extension or let him walk in FA and get 2 draft picks as compensation.

If the Rangers were commital on playing either Hamilton or Cruz in LF then this wouldn’t be necessary. But as it is we have Cruz and Hamilton for RF next year. Hamilton doesn’t like DHing which means most likely Cruz is going to be the DH a majority of the time which completely negates his defensive value. I don’t want to give up Nelson Cruz but if we are going to trade him I want to get back a guy that can help this club out and Crawford fits the criteria more than most. Thats the only reason I proposed this scenario

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Nov 11, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, this is amazing.

I think Luke French has a lot of potential. TORP potential.-Dstar

by sprite on Nov 11, 2009 11:09 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

This is great.

"Stats are like a woman in a fine little bikini. You can see a lot, but you can't see everything." -Dirk A. Tron

by coolaid on Nov 11, 2009 11:14 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

What a fantastic dogpile this has been

Kanye West likes fish sticks in his mouth.

by fake nolan ryan on Nov 11, 2009 11:24 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Holy crap

I go away for a day and this happens?

Grieve: The Yanks have struggled so far. - Lewin: Yeah, cry me a bag of money.
Dykstra has all the money!
ElectricOkra.com

by WhipSmart on Nov 11, 2009 11:53 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'll rec that

Lisa, if the Bible has taught us nothing else - and it hasn't - it's that girls should stick to girls' sports, such as hot-oil wrestling, foxy boxing, and such-and-such.

Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Thursdays, 10 PM - 1 AM, on FM 88.7 The Choice, or online @ ktcu.net!

by Maximilian on Nov 11, 2009 6:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tricer would rec this.

"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz

by Ryin A on Nov 11, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Josey Wales is correct on this issue.

Those of you who are trying desperately to make him look like an idiot are failing miserably.

by NoNameOnCard on Nov 11, 2009 2:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It's not the most stupid thing he's said.

But he’s not right. Josey’s trade proposal is not a good move for both teams. If you can’t pass that basic test, then it’s a bad proposal.

Plus, it puts Josey in the awkward position of arguing that Cruz has little value and then arguing how much value he has. Josey should have just stuck with the line that Cruz has no value because JD traded for him. That way, he wouldn’t be contradicting himself.

by cstorm15 on Nov 11, 2009 2:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No he's not.

Tampa would laugh at that proposal. I would not target Crawford just for that reason, they’re going to want too much. But to say you should ask Tampa to throw in a good arm is just ignoring the reality of what that discussion would be like.

This whole discussion highlights the difficulty of making a trade that works. Cruz is valuable to the Rangers, and they should not trade him unless the return is very, very nice. But other teams have a lot of things to point to in Cruz’s career that make getting that value very difficult.

Besides, of course, when I replied to Josey’s post yesterday saying simply “that’s pretty funny” it was a response to him going from putting Cruz down for so long (including in that very thread) and then saying a 4-5 WAR 28-yr. old like Crawford needed something else thrown in to make the trade work. Which is it?

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 11, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

From a pure value standpoint...

Cruz was worth a career best 3.6 WAR at a salary of roughly $0.40MM.
Crawford was worth a career best 5.5 WAR at a salary of roughly $8.25MM.

Cruz will make about $0.40MM again in 2010.
Crawford will make $10.0MM in 2010.

After 2010, whoever holds Cruz has the option of keeping him for 3 more seasons or trading him or non-tendering him.
After 2010, whoever holds Crawford has the option of re-signing him for something like 5 years and $65.0MM or recouping draft picks.

Anyone who looks at this information and doesn’t think that TB would need to throw more into the deal, is simply choosing to ignore the obvious. Obviously, the deal doesn’t pass the sniff test, but that doesn’t change the logic behind it.

The way this whole thread reads isn’t as a discussion of whether or not it’s a viable deal, it reads as though everyone thinks Josey is a retard for claiming that a Crawford/Cruz deal wouldn’t be a “steal” for the Rangers.

I certainly don’t think it’s a viable deal, but I’m firmly on the side of a 1-for-1 Crawford/Cruz trade would be a bad deal for the Rangers – which is Josey’s key point in all of this. The rest is just noise and random people ganging up on Josey.

by NoNameOnCard on Nov 11, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no it doesn't

god, what an imp. you’re not even the first one to use WAR in this thread. what’s wrong with you? is it that you just love going against the grain?

by ab03 on Nov 12, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

good lord

you’re another one that doesn’t understand what the fuck is going on half the time.

by ab03 on Nov 11, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He does it to himself

By bashing Cruz every chancfe he gets, then saying that he wouldn’t trade him for Carl Crawford unless the Rays threw in something else in the deal.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 11, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I bashed Cruz from 2006-2008

but after watching him last year and this past spring training, I said before this season that I expected Cruz to hit at least 25 HR’s with 80+ rbi and become a pretty good player.

He’s polarizing as a defender because he has very good range and an excellent arm but he does a lot of really stupid shit.

I wouldn’t take one year of Carl Crawford at $ 10 million for four years of Nelson Cruz and the payroll space I’m giving the Rays.

Damn right I’d ask for a high quality arm to be thrown in because I’m not going to have jack shit when Crawford goes to another team in 2011.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 6:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You bashed Cruz Tuesday.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 11, 2009 8:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Josey, come on bro...

Nellie Cruz was set to be in the 2010 JW Crosshairs…now you’re back pedaling.

Don’t deny it man, makes you look weak.

"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz

by Ryin A on Nov 11, 2009 9:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kinda like Finnerty was "correct" in his seething hatred of short pitchers, maybe.

"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS

"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire

by lonestarJon on Nov 11, 2009 6:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That Robbie Ross guy sucks, he's not still with the organization is he?

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 12, 2009 9:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Let me guess....

Trade school or community college?

by Finnerty.Fan on Nov 12, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm also curious on how Will Carroll missed this gem posted yesterday..

 Salty and Harrison for Billy Butler

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 9, 2009 9:01 PM EST

Really think the Royals would give up the best hitter in their organization for Salty & Harrison?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 11, 2009 6:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, it is the Royals

Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law

by Keynes on Nov 11, 2009 6:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

the Royals were stupid enough to trade for Yuniesky Betancourt and his entire contract. And they have been fleeced worse before. Remember what they got for Carlos Beltran? You don’t? Exactly.
Miguel Olivo is their starting catcher. Or was it that Buck guy? Who cares. Salty and his “promise” (which I believe expires in 2 years if he doesn’t start hitting) are more enticing for a perennial rebuilding team like the Royals.

by chrisR on Nov 11, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Or how about the time they traded Jermaine Dye for Neifi Perez

There is no Royals-related trade proposal that qualifies as ridiculous, because they’re all possibilities. Well, except for the ones where the Royals get a good deal.

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 12, 2009 9:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Trading AG & CYoung for

5 bags of shit (when you know you won’t be able to sign Tex and you need pitching) trumps Dye for Perez.

That trade by itself was a lynchpin to This Thing needing another rebuild and is one of the worst trades in the last 20 years of major league baseball.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

by Josey Wales on Nov 12, 2009 9:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What in the world does that have to do with the Kansas City Royals?

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 12, 2009 10:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nothing

He’s reeling so he went back to his hopscotch mat of arguments, threw his rock out there, and posted what was in the square that the rocked landed on.

"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)

by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 12, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs


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