Tuesday a.m. Rangers things
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 17, 2009 10:09 AM CST
57 comments
So, today is the day after we learned that the Rangers' 35 year streak of not having a ROY winner shall continue at least through the 2010 season...
Evan Grant offers his thoughts on Elvis Andrus coming in behind Andrew Bailey in the balloting, and also talks about why the Rangers can't be satisfied with the top ranked farm system in baseball.
You can also click here to see a slideshow of Elvis's rookie year.
Anthony Andro has a story up with some quotes from Elvis and from Ron Washington, with Washington calling the vote an "injustice."
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Justin Smoak, ROY 2011
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 17, 2009 10:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I hope he gets significant time at AAA to start this year. First, he needs to improve in hitting AAA pitching and second, it would indicate that we don’t have a problem at DH/1B and that Davis is doing well.
by FuturePants on Nov 17, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And I dont count on Davis doing well
by tyd3311 on Nov 17, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Well" is not the same as "good enough."
As in I hope Davis performs well enough so that the Rangers don’t have to force Smoak to the bigs if he’s not ready.
by FuturePants on Nov 17, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
According to some on here's predicted callup date....
….it should be Scheppers.
by FuturePants on Nov 17, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Feliz vs Scheppers
I can see the headlines now - Co – ROY winners :)
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Nov 17, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am hoping
Scheppers is the AAA pitcher of the year and a significant piece of the Rangers playoff bullpen a la David Price.
by Heebs on Nov 17, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Grant's point about how much more experience the A's and Angels' rookies gained is something that makes me nervous.
Hopefully they’ll regress next year while ours will shine.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
by Ryin A on Nov 17, 2009 10:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Holland and Hunter got alot of experience
but overall Wash seems to favor the veterans. that is something that bothers me. I don’t really trust Wash’s talent evaluation.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Nov 17, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Andrus
got a lot of experience…heh, obviously. But I think, too, that Feliz and Borbon gained valuable experience as well.
I’d disagree with the Wash favoring veterans, not in principal, just in degree. All of the guys we just mentioned we leaned on heavily. A great many at bats and especially innings went to young players this year. In fact, I think there aren’t many teams that outdid the Rangers in that parameter.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 17, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is true
our young players were significant in what they meant to this team.
I suppose part of me remembers the end of the year in which Borbon was the DH instead of getting more time in the field, especially if they claimed he needed work on his defense and we were out of it.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Nov 17, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
The Borbon DHing thing was the single most frusterating thing for me at the end of the year. I don’t understand not giving him the opportunity to be out there, especially when we were putting a pending free agent out there regularly. It seems like a pretty weird choice.
by Heebs on Nov 17, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with y'all that Borbon should have been in the field.
However, I saw him play LF against Minnesota when Scooter got hit on the hand and we lost a 6 run lead. Borbon’s arm showed to be epically bad. I would like to think he had an injury to the arm and for whatever reason, the team or Julio didn’t want to admit it. If his arm isn’t hurt, he has hands-down(punny) the worst arm ever in professional baseball. OK, that is somewhat exaggerated, but it is a huge liability at a minimum.
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
by Parman on Nov 17, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Giggle
Yes, the deadly duo of Matt Palmer and Sean O’Sullivan scare the shit out of me.
The only rookie the Angels had last year worth talking about was Adenhart.
by LiamP on Nov 17, 2009 10:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I looked up the Angels rookies after I posted...meh
the fact that the A’s had those guys on the staff get as much experience as they did is what kinda bothers me…but given what the A’s run out there for their starting 9 the worry cools down a bit.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
by Ryin A on Nov 17, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The A's are going to be good soon.
It’s correct to be concerned about them. You can mock their lineup, but they have guys like Carter, Weeks, Cardenas, Wallace and Green who are all fairly close to helping out.
by LiamP on Nov 17, 2009 11:00 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot Jepsen, who's actually pretty good.
by LiamP on Nov 17, 2009 10:58 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
The great news with the A's is
that we’ll only have to see them in the division for another season before Beane trades them away
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 17, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't really agree with Evan here:
And Bailey outperformed Neftali Feliz in that Bailey pitched in the closer’s role and pitched all year.
Yeah, Bailey pitched all year but Neftali clearly outperformed Bailey. Neftali was better than Bailey in every /9 category.
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
by WyoRanger on Nov 17, 2009 10:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Will...
Andrew Bailey be sending Huston Street a thank you card this year?
Opportunity is the #1 reason why Bailey gets the award per that quote.
by Heebs on Nov 17, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean Joey Devine?
For the sake of the Rangers, I hope that dude comes back a shell of his former self.
by LiamP on Nov 17, 2009 10:54 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Either or
Huston Street would have been the closer had he not been dealt, true? I suppose Devine would have been had he not been injured. Woulda, coulda, shoulda, ROY.
by Heebs on Nov 17, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ziegler
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by Chase Irwin on Nov 17, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oakland has a ton of really good bullpen prospects too.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 17, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
$$$
Jason Stark was on Mike & Mike this morning. He said each team gets ~$75M each year from profit sharing, TV, luxury tax, etc. Not sure where he got his figures from but that does seem a little high.
He also thinks teams should be fined if the don’t spend X amount each year on salary. I think that would lead to more bad contracts.
|Space for Rent|
by RangerMad on Nov 17, 2009 11:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
minimum salaries is a dumb idea
the yankees of the world will get their guys, no matter how much they have to spend. you are basically forcing shitty teams to overpay for shitty players. i’m sure there are a few midlevel FA’s that might end up on those shitty teams but it’s not going to be enough to install any meaningful parity.
by ab03 on Nov 17, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That would also interfere with certain teams' drafts.
Consider the Rangers – if they were required to have a minimum payroll of $x, you obviously want at least some kind of value for who you sign to a $6+ million per deal, so that probably means you are seeking more Type Bs.
by FuturePants on Nov 17, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
$75M seems awfully high
For one thing, not every team has an equal TV deal, and not every team gets the luxury tax revenue. Last I remember reading each team gets something in the low single digits millions from the mlb.com revenue. I just can’t imagine that each team gets around $75 million.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 17, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's referring to the national TV deal
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 17, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Still
How much is that per team?
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 17, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fox, ESPN, TBS & DirecTV
deals are worth a combined $25.7m per team annually, according to sportsbusinessnews.com
Can’t see all other MLB licensing ventures making up the additional $1.5b annually make up the extra $50m per team.
by robert_d_wilfong on Nov 17, 2009 10:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I was thinking
I just didn’t see the rest of the pile being THAT big.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 17, 2009 11:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think team's should be forced to spend X amount on salaries
But I do think that teams below a certain level shouldn’t be getting revenue sharing or luxury tax money.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 17, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That would make sense.
Prevent the Loria’s of the world form pocketing money given to them for competitive balance.
What do voluntary mean?
by JKolar on Nov 17, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Some of those pics of Elvis are good.
I especially like the one where he is jumping over Figgins. And the one where he catches the popup in the stands which MY should have had, but totally misread.
Some of the other shots are kind of lame. Lots of pictures of plays he didn’t make. And no good pictures any of the amazing plays he made showing his range.
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Nov 17, 2009 12:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
x
“For him to finish second is an injustice,” Ron Washington said. "I know Bailey did a great job, but he certainly didn’t do a whole lot to help his team win.
Good lord this man sounds stupid sometimes.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by lonestarJon on Nov 17, 2009 7:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
He has a point on a few levels
-Bailey was a closer so the games he entered were usually ones that Oakland was winning anyways.
-Oakland only won 75 games so clearly Bailey didn’t do that much to help his team win if they couldn’t even make it to a .500 record
-Bailey only pitched in 83.1 innings while Andrus had 1238 innings on the field and 541 PAs. Its just basic math really.
:D
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 17, 2009 8:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bailey
Put up a 2.4 WAR, tied for third-highest among all relief pitchers. He had a 2.56 FIP and a 2.27 tRA. He was one of the best RP’s in the major leagues, bottom line.
While I would agree that he was less valuable than Elvis, and the stats support that, to outright say that Bailey “didn’t do a whole lot to help his team win” is fucking ignorant and plain wrong.
In fact, Wash’s statement here isn’t any different than the ridiculous claims made by the Chicago writer in the very next front page post. It makes him look like a blindly overbiased ignoramus, and one might argue that it even reflects rather poorly on Elvis and the team. It’s the kind of statement you’d expect from some overzealous uninformed fanboy, not a supposed major league manager.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by lonestarJon on Nov 17, 2009 8:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
He IS biased, first of all.
Second, Gdawg’s points are valid, even if they were made tongue in cheek.
Your hatred of Washington is really irrational.
by brettgardner on Nov 17, 2009 9:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The amount of value a player provides his team doesn't change
Because the player “entered when his team was already winning” or because his team was shitty. Bailey was extremely good this year, and while he probably didn’t deserve ROY over Anderson, Neimann and Elvis to say he didn’t provide his team with value or the value he provided his team doesn’t count is stupid.
Maybe I’m zoning in on this because I don’t like Wash, but he made a pretty dumb statement bottom line. I don’t think anyone can deny that.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by lonestarJon on Nov 17, 2009 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe?
Maybe I’m zoning in on this because I don’t like Wash
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 17, 2009 10:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see anything wrong with that statement.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 17, 2009 9:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Try imagining it from the standpoint of an A's fan
Or just someone outside the Ranger fanbubble.
He just said Andrew Bailey “didn’t do a while lot help his team win” in 2009. I frankly cannot comprehend how you guys are failing to realize the very basic stupidity of such a statement.
Maybe it’s just because I’m the one pointing it out and I have the “irrational Wash-hater” label around here, I dunno.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by lonestarJon on Nov 17, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because its a generic baseball statement
that you’ll find many managers/coaches/scouts around the league saying (or something similar). Its the same reason Hanley Ramirez never gets any MVP love. He plays for a losing team and therefore doesn’t do enough to help his team to win.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 17, 2009 9:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No...
it’s because every manager is going to stick up for their player and it’s really not a big deal.
He said he new Bailey did a great job. He didn’t say the guy sucked like you are making it seem. You’re making more of it than you should be because you’re a Wash-hater.
You sound like Josey in a JD discussion, or lately, BigSteve in regards to Nellie. Calm down.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 17, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Verbaitim
“I know Bailey did a great job, but he certainly didn’t do a whole lot to help his team win.
He takes his “great job” opening and flushes it down the sewer with an incredibly brazen and incredibly incorrect assessment.
Hey, maybe I am parsing over words here and making more of this than I should be. But at this point it’s not because of what Wash said anymore, it’s because you guys are driving me batshit because you can’t seem to recognize how basically stupid such a statement was, even if it really isn’t as big a deal as it is to me.
It’s just of those little things that kills me. But I’m done. Gonna quit before my head explodes.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by lonestarJon on Nov 17, 2009 9:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The statement was really that big of a deal
/baiting/
by robert_d_wilfong on Nov 17, 2009 10:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
from MLBTR
•Spencer “has his doubts” that Los Angeles will re-sign any of its big three free agents (Chone Figgins, Vladimir Guerrero and John Lackey). He thinks the other three AL West teams would be smart to sign Guerrero given that the outfielder is “a prideful man who would have something to prove to his former employer.”
How much would losing those 3 hurt the Angels?
|Space for Rent|
by RangerMad on Nov 17, 2009 9:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well, Figgins and Lackey lead the Angel position players and pitchers in WAR
(Well, Lackey was tied with Beavis the Surferboy actually).
You all know what I think of Vlad. Losing him isn’t nearly as big a deal as the other two, even though Figgins is probably unlikely to duplicate his 6.1 WAR ever again.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by lonestarJon on Nov 17, 2009 9:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It would hurt some...
but I’m pretty sure they will use that money elsewhere to help them out if they can’t re-sign Lackey and Figgins.
I personally would love to see the Halos give Lackey a deal for 5/90 and have that tie up what they would have spent elsewhere on other players.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 17, 2009 9:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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