Wednesday a.m. Rangers stuff
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 18, 2009 8:54 AM CST
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PrintThe A.L. Manager of the Year Award will be announced today, and T.R. Sullivan writes that Ron Washington is a leading contender for the award.
Evan Grant writes that Chuck Greenberg has moved more and more towards making Nolan Ryan a true partner in his bid to buy the Rangers, with Greenberg and Ryan reportedly working together to involve local investors. Grant notes that local investment groups are preferred to outside investment groups by MLB, and of course, having Ryan as part of his ownership group can only help Greenberg when it comes to seeking MLB approval.
Also from Grant earlier this week is an item I'd missed on his blog, discussing the possibility of trying to trade for Edwin Jackson from the Detroit Tigers. Grant suggests offering Chris Davis, Kasey Kiker, Brandon McCarthy and a fourth minor leaguer, or Justin Smoak, Kasey Kiker, and Brandon McCarthy, for Jackson.
That would be a hefty ROI on Jackson for the Tigers, who picked him up from the D-Rays last offseason for Matt Joyce. And personally, I'm not all that interested in Jackson, and certainly not at that price.
Jackson is a righthanded flyball pitcher, the type of guy the Rangers have historically tried to stay away from. Last year, Jackson had the 11th highest flyball rate of any qualifying pitcher in the majors. That's a red flag, given that he'd be going from a pitcher-friendly park to a very hitter-friendly park (particularly for lefty power hitters).
Jackson also wasn't all that great last year...despite being a power pitcher, he struck out fewer than 7 batters per 9 innings, walked 3 batters per 9, and had a home run per 9 rate of 1.14.
Jackson did have a 3.62 ERA last season, but that was off of a FIP of 4.28 and a tRA of 4.75...and again, this is while pitching half his games in Detroit.
And Jackson fell apart down the stretch after a hot start...in the first half, he had a 2.52 ERA, allowed opponents an OPS of 617, and struck out 7.2 batters per 9 with a 2.77 K/BB ratio. In the second half, he had a 5.07 ERA, an 856 opponent's OPS, 6.2 Ks per 9, and a 1.83 K/BB ratio. And Jackson's hot first half was largely fueled by a BABIP of .249...a completely unsustainable rate.
Add in the fact that Jackson is under team control for only two more years, and it makes sense as to why Detroit wants to move him. Detroit, I believe, sees a guy who has had one great, but fluky, half of a season, and otherwise has been thoroughly mediocre as a starting pitcher, and who is about to start getting expensive. And yes, he has great stuff, but if he puts that great stuff together, he's also close to being able to walk as a free agent.
So on Edwin Jackson, I'd pass.
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Good grief.
If Justin Smoak went out the door for Edwin Jackson I would spontaneously cry.
Awful, awful idea buying high on Edwin Jackson. You’ve got to aim higher than that.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
Greinke?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Nov 18, 2009 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
Definitely
I wouldn’t trade Smoak straight up for Edwin. Throwing in two useful arms with upside is exactly the type of trade that has come back to haunt the club in the past.
Whoever compared that offer to the Eaton offer is dead on. 3 years from now Smoak will likely be tearing it up, although probably not at the level of Adrian Gonzalez. I could also see one of Kiker/McCarthy being a useful starter at that point as well, if not both. 3 years Edwin Jackson will probably be long gone.
Justin Smoak
and others. Because Smoak wouldn’t be enough!
+1 AJM
The guy’s had one good season and he clearly wore down at the end of the season. For the price Grant stated, you have to pass.
After Fuentes blows a save and an Angels loss to the Indians:
"Angels still in first place" - UCI Halo
"Hey you know who would have gotten those 3 outs in the 9th?
Darren O’Day." - FirebatM3
LOL
Edwin Jackson is much closer to Adam Eaton than a front line starter.
Some team might get Jackson this offseason for what would be considerably less than the Rangers could give up to obtain him. I’m hoping the Rangers have made a more significant move so we don’t have to hear the yelling and screaming about how the Rangers missed a great opportunity to add Jackson.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
on Edwin Jackson
I think JD understands that the time to target a guy like Jackson was last offseason, not this one. A target like Jonathon Sanchez would make a lot of sense IMO.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
You're probably a year late on Sanchez too.
by LiamP on Nov 18, 2009 9:37 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
well the Giants were thinking of moving him to the bullpen in early summer
but yeah, he had a really solid second half because the walk rate started coming down. If he takes one or two more developmental steps, watch out. I like him because he’s a guy that I think could produce results next year that are a lot better than what he posted last year, sorta the opposite of Edwin Jackson.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
I still like the idea of gonig after Nolasco
since he is arbitration eligible. The Marlins don’t really like those arbitration eligible players, and for that matter, I would see what it would take to get Josh Johnson.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Jackson
3rd in MLB in terms of Pitcher Abuse Points last year. Detroit’s trying to pawn off a guy they burned out by overworking him Verlander style.
by LiamP on Nov 18, 2009 9:11 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Nobody was harder on Chris Davis than me (justifiably so, he was one of THE worst hitters in MLB)
but you don’t trade him this off-season because his value is at an all-time low. Find out what he is …if it’s more of the same, run his ass out of here in some kind of other bullshit package.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
Jackson is a righthanded flyball pitcher, the type of guy the Rangers have historically tried to stay away from.
Brandon McCarthy?
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
yeah
in Grant’s trade we’d send Brandon McCarthy, along with three other valuable parts, for a healthier Brandon McCarthy. If JD did that deal I would take a Josian stance against our entire FO.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
well, I agree
But the point of that post was that fairly recently, the Rangers gave up significant assets to pick up a flyball righty, which is contrary to Adam’s point that the Rangers try to stay away from that type pitcher.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
I have to think that they envisioned McCarthy as a strikeout type.
Granted he was never going to be a “true” power pitcher, I thought the feeling was that his pitch mix and command would allow him to miss enough bats. That way, his fly ball tendencies would be mitigated.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Nov 18, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
Didn't he have like an 11.5 per 9 k rate in the minors?
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
Hi, Keith. Is this the year Edinson Volquez finally wins RoY?
by Brian Thomas on Nov 18, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
McCarthy
In 2004 (his age 20 season) he pitched 172 innings, went 17-6 with a 3.14 ERA, walked just 30 batters, and struck out 202, across three levels.
"I cannot believe how fucking off base I was about Tiny E before this season. The Kid is great and is going to become a star."
- Wails
McCarthy
He was viewed as someone who was less vulnerable to lefty power hitters because of his off-speed pitches.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 18, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
In other linkalicious news, Crops is back with a scintillating top ten prospect report
The top ten:
1. Feliz
2. Scheppers
3. Perez
4. Smoak
5. Kiker
6. Moreland
7. Lemon
8. Bianucci
10a. Nevarez
10b. Richardson
Yes, that’s the actual list. Including one guy who was DFA’d and outrighted this year and another who is no longer with the organization. The Perez and Smoak comments are particularly enlightening:
3. Martin Perez (P) – People say he’s the next Johan Santana. Didn’t Houston lose Santana in the Rule 5 draft? I hope that doesn’t happen to Perez.
4. Justin Smoak (1B) – He kind of laid an egg in AAA. To think that Texas could have had Jason Castro, who might’ve solved the catching problems I wrote about this spring. But then I remember that Smoak destroyed the best pitchers from Europe in the World Cup, and I worry less.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
Why would we need Jason Castro
when we have such as promising catching prospect as Kevin Richardson at #10???
by MikeEl on Nov 18, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
everything about his Smoak comments
suggest baiting. There remains no doubt in my mind this is a very knowledgable fan doing schtick.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
It cuts deeper than that.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Nov 18, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
I think if we were to unravel the truth about Crops it would lead to the top of Rangers fandom and maybe even the upper level of the club's front office
It’s like Roswell or the JFK/RFK assassinations. I don’t know that we’re prepared to handle the truth.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
Castro
How could the rangers have had him when he was drafted by the astros 1 pick ahead of the rangers?
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
It's just not the same
Knowing it’s a bit.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
Man, he sure looked like he was gonna be a stud back when he was coming up the LA system
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
Hi, Keith. Is this the year Edinson Volquez finally wins RoY?
top 10 prospect in baseball, right?
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
From the 2003 BA writeup:
Jackson is the complete package, and fits the profile of a top-of-the-line starting pitcher to a tee. He established himself as one of the elite prospects in baseball even before his September callup, and his performance all but guaranteed him a spot in the Los Angeles rotation for 2004. He’s the best homegrown pitching prospect the Dodgers have developed since Pedro Martinez, and they don’t plan on letting this one get away.
A good reminder, you never know…
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
Hi, Keith. Is this the year Edinson Volquez finally wins RoY?
by Brian Thomas on Nov 18, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
Yah
Him and Greg Miller. Amazing prospects.
I think I remember one ARod trade scenario where it was those two coming back.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Nov 18, 2009 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
Heh, irony.
Detroit, I believe, sees a guy who has had one great, but fluky, half of a season, and otherwise has been thoroughly mediocre as a starting pitcher, and who is about to start getting expensive.
From the same team that did this:
SEATTLE — After days of debate, the Seattle Mariners traded left-handed pitcher Jarrod Washburn to the Detroit Tigers for two young pitchers, giving the Tigers another veteran for their rotation as they try to hold on to the AL Central lead.
With Washburn’s trade value at its highest, the Mariners sent the 34-year-old to the Tigers for left-hander Luke French and minor league prospect Mauricio Robles.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Apparently just writing on the DMN blog
causes your IQ to drop 50 points.
Evan, please put the Morning News down and slowly back away. Really. This is for your own good.
"we’re a bunch of knee-jerking yahoos who like new and shiny things." -- FirebatM3 July 10, 2009
i found this interesting
in the comments, I assume a tigers fan posted this (context being that he thought people in the comments were undervaluing Jackson):
Think Davis, Holland and Kiker for Jackson and Granderson or Davis, Kiker and Feldman/Hunter for Jackson/Granderson and Willis/Robertson.
Wouldn’t you think about the second one? I get it’s a payroll issue but it doesn’t seem that bad.
Fuck no.
First off, that second one is ridiculous. The Rangers are going to give up cheap young talent to take one of the worst contracts in baseball (that applies to Willis or Robertson) off of Detroit’s hands?
The first one is almost as stupid.
by LiamP on Nov 18, 2009 10:01 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Im keepin Scooter and TomTom so stupid trades like this don't backfire on me.
I like Granderson and the obvious would be to use him in center. That would solve the whole center field issue that we have now. I still feel like you roll with Borbon and hope for the best.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
I'd have to go
none of the above. Neither Holland or Feldman are tradeable pieces for me right now.
If the Tigers are going to throw in Granderson, things change
and the package gets bigger.
Where’s Will Carroll to discuss EG’s plan to give up CDavis, Ichabod, Kiker (and something else!!!) for Edwin Jackson?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 18, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
as an aside
I saw a huge thread (but didn’t have time to read) that I guess was devoted to mocking you for apparently voicing an opinion that 4 years of cost controlled Nelson Cruz was more valuable than 1 year of Carl Crawford for $10M. Anyway, I agree with your opinion.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
most of the regular posters did agree
somehow* that post morphed into something beyond Josey’s actual point.
- sarcasm
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
bigsteve was talking trade scenarios and said he would give Cruz, Main
and something else for one year of Carl Crawford at $ 10 million.
I said no way.
For four years of Cruz and the payroll space I was creating for Tampa, I’m going to want something else for one year of Carl Crawford at $ 10 million and that something else was “a high quality arm.”
I never, ever implied Davis or Price.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 18, 2009 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
Where is the lie?
Have you told everybody what Josh Hamilton’s wife was wearing the night you saw them dining?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 18, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
You're lying about what you said. Your post above is nowhere near the truth.
That’s the lie, you fucking dumbass.
by FuturePants on Nov 18, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
What is your version of "the truth"?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 18, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Thanks Jack
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
That sounds pretty close to the truth to me
Don’t Josey-out on Josey. Answer his question.
by robert_d_wilfong on Nov 18, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
That wasn't the point of contention
I think 90% of people would agree that Cruz is much more valuable to this team than Crawford. It was adding a quality young arm (implying Davis or Price since I doubt he knows fuck all about Helickson or Moore) that made it pretty absurd.
by LiamP on Nov 18, 2009 10:05 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
No, that wasn't the point either
The issue was about proposing unrealistic trade proposals.
Asking TB to throw in something when all you are sending them is Cruz means you have no idea what TB is looking for in a Crawford trade.
And for what it’s worth, Josey adamantly argued that point too – that TB was looking to shed salary and would value Cruz enough to throw in a pitcher.
(I don’t get why that point was so hard to grasp).
Another point in that argument
is that Josey has spend the past few years telling everyone how crappy Cruz is as a player and has him pegged as a poor defensive, 30 year old platoon player who could fall back to earth next season. Yet, he still wants Tampa Bay to trade us Crawford+top pitching prospect for him or else JD is fucking up.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
I also said Cruz was going to be a good hitter in The Show
before this season because he turned a corner.
I said he was polarizing as a defensive player…great physical skills (marvelous range and gun for an arm) but he also does a lot of stupid shit.
I never said he was going to fall back to earth next season (absolute lie, gdawg) but I did say he was the Rangers most marketable player and that it is always better to trade somebody a year early than a year late.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 18, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
That is also not what you were being ridiculed about.
I’ll say it again: Josey can barely understand written English.
by FuturePants on Nov 18, 2009 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
Of course you never flat out said it
Because that would be taking a stance with one of your bull shit opinions rather than spewing shit and never giving anyone definitive answers so you can always say, “I never said that”. You’re the one that said he isn’t likely to hit LH pitching in the show, he’s 30 years old and only getting worse, he takes dumbass routes to balls which makes him average at best, and of course that he has only had one good year in the Show. This comes after the many times you’ve said how the only reason he is because JD’s trying to save his job and how no player has put up a .279 OBP in their first 137 games and has gone on to have a good career (especially when they are 25-26 years old).
But I’m sure the Rays would love to trade a top pitching prospect with one of their best trade chips (Crawford can get a whole lot on the trade market right now) just to get this marketable player with all these clear and obvious faults.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
So if I "never flat out said it" I take that to mean
that you are admitting that you lied. That’s a good first step.
Cruz & LH pitching….He’s yet to hit it worth a damn in The Show so that means I’m not counting on him to suddenly improve next year. It could happen (he did fine in the minors) but I’m still approaching next year like he’s not going to do it.
As for the Rays and trading top pitching prospects…they gave Kazmir away for a song.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 18, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
It's not the same Kazmir.
Stop being dense.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Nov 18, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
Tampa gave away an asset for not much in return
to create payroll space when they dealt Kazmir.
The value Tampa received came back in the form of payroll space instead of in talent for talent.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 18, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
Kazmir hasn't been a prospect for 5 years now
by LiamP on Nov 18, 2009 11:00 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Oh how will
TB ever survive without Kazmir’s 5 inning 120 pitch starts…
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 18, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
Kazmir seemed to do pretty well in LAAA.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 18, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
Regular season yes
Playoffs, he was a disaster
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 18, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
I think Kazmir is
going to be much better than Jackson in 2010.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 18, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
but again, you have to consider the money situation. 5 remaining years at 12 mil a year is not something the Rangers could take on
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 18, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
I believe that Kazmir
has two years left on his deal at $ 25 million or somesuch.
This was a case where they gave up a high quality arm in the name of payroll space.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 18, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
Fixed for ya
former high quality arm
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 18, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
I understand Josey
my point is the Rangers couldn’t take on 12 million a year to be the place where the salary was dumped
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 18, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
Thank you for your contribution, Captain Obvious.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 18, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
I cannot believe I even bothered.
Just to clarify the timeline:
1. Cite Scott Kazmir as an example of the Rays trading a top pitching prospect
2. Get called out on it.
3. Berate the guy who called you out as if HAHA! I knew it was a ridiculous example all along!
This played out exactly like you would expect. Fuck, I feel like tball right now.
by LiamP on Nov 18, 2009 11:15 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
No, you don't
t ball enjoys arguing and getting Josey to chase his tail.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Another horrible idea from Grant...
I don’t understand where he’s coming from in regards to what he thinks this team should be doing lately.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
ok that's probably the worst trade prop i've ever heard...
seriously.. for Edwin Jackson…
seriously.. for Edwin Jackson…EDWIN JACKSON. NO.
"you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?" - Josey Wales
If that actually happened
It would rival the san diego trade in awfulness.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Bad but probably not San Diego trade bad.
That San Diego Trade is one of worst trades in MLB in the last 20 years.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 18, 2009 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
San Diego Trade
Are you willing to attribute it to a growing pain? JD has a pretty good record on trades in the last couple years…
Eaton/Gonzalez deal
I’m generally a Daniels defender, but even I had a “what the fuck?” reaction when that deal came down.
While the Soriano and McCarthy deals haven’t worked out, I could at least see what the rationale was behind making both of those trades. I still can’t understand what JD was thinking with the San Diego deal.
"I cannot believe how fucking off base I was about Tiny E before this season. The Kid is great and is going to become a star."
- Wails
"A growing pain" ???
No, I just don’t think JD knew what the hell he was doing.
Not only did he get killed value for value in the trade but he gave up a young pitcher and totally misread the 1B situation on his team.
That deal by itself was the lynchpin to This Thing having to rebuild once more in 2007.
Much more than a growing pain.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 18, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
He also had poor advice
from those within the organization, but he’s the one who listened to it and made the deal.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Well
in his defense, even though the trade was terrible, Gonzalez was blocked at 1B by Tex. Also, Gonzalez had been a bit of a disappointment in the minors based on a cursory glance at the numbers. If we were going to give those 2 up, we did need more in return than Adam Eaton
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 18, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
Eaton
Yeah, that was my main objection to the trade- I was OK with trading Young and Gonzalez, but for Adam Fuckin’ Eaton, a guy who couldn’t stay healthy, who had one year left on his contract, and whose “potential” was a couple years past its expiration date? I remember calling one of my friends afterwards and going on a 30-minute rant- it’s still that burned into my memory.
It wasn’t quite as bad as the Hafner deal, where the Rangers gave up an asset that everyone except John Hart seemed to value properly, for a player that anyone with a functioning brain knew was a complete piece of shit, but it wasn’t a terribly bright decision, either at the time, or now.
"I cannot believe how fucking off base I was about Tiny E before this season. The Kid is great and is going to become a star."
- Wails
Josey == idiot.
Well, I’m not going to defend the trade, however, I am going to point out some things about it. 1) hindsight is 20-20, so jumping up and down about how wonderful Adrian Gonzalez and Chris Young have been and how lousy Adam Eaton and Akinori Otsuka have been assumes that a) you knew that Eaton was going to blow up leaving San Diego in his 7th year in the league at age 28, and b) you knew that Otsuka was going to make his final appearence in baseball 18 months after the trade. (ignoring Billy Killian and Termell Sledge, since neither has done anything).
2) yes Eaton sucked and was gone the year after the trade, making it look like we gave up alot and got nothing. sometimes that happens.
I still think
that it didn’t matter how long Eaton or Otsuka were here. While I saw the reasoning behing trading Gonzalez and Young, I think you had to get more than a mediocre starter and a bullpen guy. I think it should be an organization wide rule that you never accept a bullpen guy as a major part of a trade. The worst trades in the history of baseball have involved teams trading for relievers.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 18, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
The San Diego deal
That has nothing to do with hindsight being 20/20.
Pretty much everyone hated the trade at the time. Other than Randy Galloway, who said it was a good deal because you gave up one pitcher and got two pitchers in return.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 18, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
It's one thing to hate a trade (like most of us did re Ichabod v Danks) at the time
but the San Diego trade was far worse than anybody realized and it’s consequences still reverberate thru the Ranger organization (how’d you like to have an infield of AG, Kinsler, Tiny E and Face?).
Quite simply, one of the five worst trades made in MLB over the last 20 years.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
what makes you think we still get Elvis?
If we keep AGon and somehow find room for both him and Tex on the roster what if that adds an extra few wins to us. Do we still trade Tex when we did? Maybe we hold onto Tex until after the 07 season and not get as good a deal for him.
The trade was bad because we included AGon. Chris Young is a spare. He wouldn’t be in this rotation if he were still here. he would most likely either be traded away anyway or probably DFAd by now.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I was going to try to the same thing - but yeah
Teix isn’t here, Cruz isn’t and Elvis probably isn’t either.
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
btw..not sure if this was mentioned
but Fangraphs takes a look at baserunners and in this segment, they specifically talk about poor baserunning. 1 Ranger on the list.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Ooouuuch
Posada, Melvin Mora, Carlos Lee, Molina, Bard, Billy Butler, another Molina, Thome – to be expected. But damn!
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
I was shocked
that Miguel Tejada or Pudge weren’t on that list. I wonder if with MY it’s a case of not being as fast as you think you are anymore…
they also mention a catching defense segment
that’s pretty interesting. Of course Adam’s favorite tops the list…
Also, Taylor is 20th out of 114 catchers
with Pudge at 40 and Salty at 66.
So maybe all the talk about Taylor being a good defensive catcher has some merit.
Their methodology leaves
alot to be desired. You can’t measure catcher defense with items that show up in a box score.
|Space for Rent|
Holy fuck
Is Evan insane?
There’s no way you should be giving up that kind of a package for a middle-of-the-rotation guy (at best) who was not only lucky this season but was also the third most abused pitcher in the majors.
Mail that one off to TR.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
Thank you for adding your thoughts to this thread.
No really.
Thank you
by oc on Nov 19, 2009 1:32 AM CST up reply actions
I don't really actually read the AM (aka Josey) threads much anymore.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
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