St. Louis writer has a meltdown over "Waino" and Carpenter losing to Lincecum
But the most entertaining part is the fanboy comments, complaining about how everyone is biased against Cardinals players.
about 2 years ago
Adam J. Morris
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I don't know about everyone
but I sure as hell am…
/just kidding
//or am I?
Grieve: The Yanks have struggled so far. - Lewin: Yeah, cry me a bag of money.
Dykstra has all the money!
ElectricOkra.com
I think St. Louis has a little bit of inferiority complex.
I mean, you could make an argument that Wainwright wasn’t even one of the top three best pitchers in the NL.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
I can't stand the Cardinals...
they are the most boring “good” team every year.
"you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?" - Josey Wales
Your signature is WIN.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
Seriously...
Red/White/Gray = boring.
Except for Ohio State ;)
"you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?" - Josey Wales
I like his contradiction
The point of playing the game is winning, he should be rewarded for having the most wins in the N.L.
If the bullpen hadn’t blown that 6 run lead he would have had 20 wins and probably won the award.
Exactly why wins aren’t a good stat to measure pitchers with. With just a cursory glance at the stats, Lincecum left 6 games ahead or tied that the Giants ended up not winning. So by his theory, Lincecum could have had 20-21 wins also. I’m sure Wainwright had other leads blown at some point also. What a terrible argument to make by someone who gets paid to write about baseball.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 20, 2009 1:27 PM CST reply actions
It is common
that teams with two players strongly qualifying for an award often get shafted. ARod/Griffey 1996 sticks out in my memory (go Juan!). I was hoping for a Brian Anderson / Andrew Bailey effect this year in ROY voting, but Anderson didn’t have enough support to hurt Bailey and push Elvis over the top.
Whatever, in both cases (NL Cy and AL ROY) there were multiple good candidates, someone was bound to get shafted. And besides, it isn’t as if another Cardinal – Colby Rasmus sporting a nice low 700s OPS didn’t get a courtesy vote in the NL ROY.
Go Rice Owls!
Except they weren't shafted.
Carpenter would probably have been second on my personal ballot, but I think you could make the argument that both could have easily been left off a ballot and it should be fine. Haren and Vazquez were, in fact, awesome.
interesting
“But he faded, going 1-3 with a 3.50 ERA in September.”
Strange that he excludes his Oct outing.
Anyway, i’m looking at his Aug/Sept/Oct game log and am failing to see any “fade” whatsoever. i see 2 starts out of 11 where he didn’t go at least 7 innings. those are also the only 2 starts he allowed more than 3 earned runs. geesh.
Again
way too much reliance on “wins” by a pitcher. I think everyone would agree that giving up 3.5 runs a game is pretty darn good unless you play for an extremely offensive challenged team like the Giants.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 20, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
eh
Lincecum probably deserved to win, but a valid argument could be made that Wainwright deserved it just as much, given his inning totals. There is merit in pitchers stretching a dominant 6 inning/1 run outing into a 8 inning/3 run outing to save the bullpen, a al the Jack Morris types. Wainwright gets hurt by the lack of Ks but he has certainly been the best pitcher ever wrangled out of the Braves farm system, and that counts for something.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
x
a valid argument could be made that Wainwright deserved it just as much, given his inning totals.
I don’t think anyone disputes that you can make a valid argument for Wainwright winning.
My issue is that the writer, and the commenters, appear to believe that there is no valid argument for anyone other than Wainwright or Carpenter winning.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 20, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
i think the sting
is that they had two of the top three guys, but no one remembers the runner up. And it is likely that they split some votes. It is to be expected that as blog writers gain the credentials of columnists that columnists will devolve into the blog writer stereotype of ultra subjective whining/fawning.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Disagree with the Wainwright deserves the award because of his innings totals
This is a wrong argument, plain and simple. Look at these figures.
Wainwright – 233 innings in 34 starts
Lincecum – 225 1/3 innings in 32 starts
Quick number crunching and:
Average IP per outing:
Lincecum – 7.04
Wainwright – 6.85
Lincecum actually burdened the bullpen less when he pitched.
Plus!
Lincecum had 4 complete games to Wainwrights 1.
I can see a legit argument to be made for Carpenter over Lincecum. Games pitched aside I think Carpenter was clearly the better pitcher. Carpenter pitched exceptionally and had he pitched in 30+ games he would have won the award hands down. Wainwright on the other hand, complete garbage. He is the clear cut 3rd place finisher out of those 3.
However
The fact that Wainwright made two more starts than Lincecum adds to Wainwrights value.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 20, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
Lincecum would have made more starts is his dumbfuck skipper didn't
make him throw 120+ pitches each start.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 20, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
if*
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 20, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
I do agree with that however the point I was driving at is that the writer says the reason the innings totals are important is because when a pitcher goes further into games it taxes the bullpen less. This point is wrong in this particular instance as shown by the statistics given.
Don't
use logic when arguing a point. Just let the man rant and rave to the uneducated masses and stir the pot
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 20, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
hmm
yeah, its not like Lincecum had 30 less innings. Don’t get me wrong, I think Lincecum deserved it. But I am not surprised that Cardinals fans are upset that their own solid options didn’t win, especially when the voting was so close.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
You know
I just realized there’s a thing that says “Email a letter to ‘Gordo’.”
I think if you are a media person who is known as “Gordo,” you shouldn’t be taken seriously.
E-mail a letter?
Hold on, I have to text you a memo first.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Nov 20, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
Gordon Keith??
Oh wait…….
LoneStarBall....You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
by LSBUser on Nov 20, 2009 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
physical sacrifice?
Waino was really hurting himself by pitching well…
I mean, only Cy Young type guys can really put themselves on the line
Semi OT
Will Carroll was on XM today and just got thrashed for both his NL Cy Young vote and his NL Rookie of the Year vote.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
That's becasue radio people are really dumb
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 20, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
who did he vote for/where can i find that stuff?
by kevinkinsler on Nov 20, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Adam Wainwright, Tim Lincecum, and Dan Haren.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 20, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
WC got killed because he
had Coghlan 5th in NL Rookie voting and for having Haren second.
His methodolgy / criteria for both were inconsistent and everybody (Kevin Kennedy, maybe Holden Kuschner and the callers) climbed up his ass.
Very funny from my perspective.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Your perspective being the bottom of Will Carroll's shoe?
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
by WyoRanger on Nov 20, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Coghlan's defense in LF has horrible.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 20, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
Ha
Using Kevin Kennedy to bash Will Carroll?
That’s funny.
"I cannot believe how fucking off base I was about Tiny E before this season. The Kid is great and is going to become a star."
- Wails
Yeah, I'm not behind Carroll's ballot, but come on.
The differences in how these two men look at the game is similar to how a 3rd grader and a grad student look at the Illiad.
Get over it
Will Carroll beat you down without breaking a sweat. You’re just looking foolish now by bringing it up all the time.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Will Carroll tried to throw me under the bus
but he shit the bed trying.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
True
You just forgot to mention that it was your bed he shit all over
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
here's another from st. louis
this guy is little less pissy, but still has some poor arguments, like pointing out how Lincecum was fading down the stretch, going only 1-3 with a 3.60 ERA in september, after he already mentioned how much he leans on ERA
In those three losses the Giants scored a total of 3(!) runs.
Here is Law reasoning about his picks on STL radio
those goes are getting killed by Law.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
My favorite comment from the comment section:
cigarmonthly November 19, 2009 2:20PM CST
GARBAGE PURE UNADULTERATED GARBAGE!!! This goes to show the bias the Cardinals recieve from the media at large. Wainwright or Carpenter were better pitchers hands down. Lincecum happened to pitch just well enough to keep the buzz for the Cy Young in tact. One thing to keep in mind if Lincecum was on the Cards he would be the 3rd starter not the ace! So there…
by GregoryM on Nov 20, 2009 2:25 PM CST reply actions
It's George W. Obama
It is one of a series of a morphing pictures between one president to the other.
by GregoryM on Nov 20, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
Meltdown?
I didn’t think the writer went over the top. Some of the comments do, but the writer was that bad in my opinion.
Agreed
STL writers are actually pretty level-headed (Gordon, Miklasz, and Burwell >>>>>>> Galloway, Hate and LeBreton). Gordon gets paid to write on hockey, not baseball. But still, the article isn’t nearly as whiny as the comments.
I lived in STL for 12 yrs… and I can’t stand STL sports fans in general.
"we’re a bunch of knee-jerking yahoos who like new and shiny things." -- FirebatM3 July 10, 2009
Not as whiny
Still an article that is simple local media homerism. It is good writing because it is what the fan base wants to read. Unfortunately, the truth is that his points are mostly outdated garbage or just plain incorrect. Sometimes good writing isn’t about the subject matter being supported statistically or rationally and that bothers me.
I don't know about "meltdown"
But he did use the word “jobbed.” That implies swindling, deceit. Does he think the vote was rigged?
"It's not a good strategy, but it's my strategy." -- Courtney Lucas
Game Scores for NL Cy Young candidates
Lincecum 25 of 32 games with GS of 50+ (14 games with GS of 70+)
Wainwright 26/32 GS 50+ (8 games GS of 70+)
Carpenter 25/28 GS 50+ (8 games GS of 70+)
Haren 23/33 GS 50+ (10 games GS 70+)
Vazquez 27/32 GS 50+ (8 games GS 70+)
Give me Tim LeRoy Lincecum !!
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
I just don't get it.
I don’t get the hubbub over this. Lincecum was very, very, very clearly the best pitcher in the National League…who cares who came in second or third?
(For the record, I’d go Lincecum-Vazquez-Haren-Wainwright-Carpenter.)
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
You obviously forgot all the...
…brouhaha this summer with the “clearly Scott Feldman (or Kevin Millwood) doesn’t deserve the Cy Young Award, but doesn’t he deserve to be in the discussion?” issue.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 20, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions
At a cursory glance of all pitchers who I think had an argument to be on the ballot, I'd probably go. . .
Lincecum > Carpenter > Haren > Wainwright > Jiminez > Vazquez > Johnson
I don’t see any reason to quibble over any order of the guys between Lincecum and Johnson, and Lincecum seems like the obvious winner to me. To me, the controversy here should be that, somehow, Lincecum didn’t get the most first place votes.
Timmmyyyy!
Im glad he won, I have thing for dominate players. I hope Puljos wins every MVP award for the next 8 years too.
Feliz says his greatest thrill was striking out Boston Red Sox DH David Ortiz, one of his heroes. Yet, when he called to tell his parents, his mother had a request: Strike out New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez, too.
"So when I did that," Feliz says, "I told my mom, 'There you go. There's your present. Don't ask me to strike anyone else out, OK?'
Nah
I’m bored of repeat MVP winners in the NL. Pujols and Bonds have dominated for far too long. How many NL MVP’s have their been in the last 15 years not named Bonds, Pujols, or been a member of the Phillies. I want Han Ram to win one.
The guy who deserves it should win it
And this year Pujols has a pretty overwhelming case. Lead the NL in WAR, VORP, EQA, wOBA, Runs Created, OBP, SLG and consequently OPS, of course. If there’s an offensive metric, he probably lead the NL in it, and probably the AL too.
Now, I don’t really recall if he won in a past year when HanRam should’ve won, but just speaking in terms of this year… there’s no real argument for NL MVP other than Pujols, IMO.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
Between UZR and +/- he's been around average every year of his career but once.
Once single season of attrociousness, but everyone accepts that one season is not enough data in fielding. I would say he’s more likely the averagish guy he’s been most of his career than the awful guy he was his second year.
I feel like that one awful season has him branded for life as a sucky fielder. Coming up he was heralded for having unbelievable range. Becoming a good fielder when you’ve already got the range is none too uncommon. That’s what Kinsler did this year it seems.
Waino = worst nickname ever.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
by Ryin A on Nov 21, 2009 6:33 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
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