Monday morning Rangers things

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 23, 2009 8:37 AM CST Comment 69 comments

Largely quiet day today...

T.R. Sullivan talks about the various ownership groups bidding on the Rangers, and says at the end of the day, the winner will be whoever can pay the most money to paid down the Hicks Sports Group debt and make the banks happy.

Richard Durrett asks if folks would be interested in Mike Cameron, and suggests that Cameron isn't as good as Marlon Byrd, which is erroneous...Cameron is the better defender, and last year, anyway, was also the better hitter.

Scott McCoy runs down the list of all the other Rangers before Elvis Andrus who have received Rookie of the Year votes...I had forgotten Cecil Espy got a vote.

0 recs | Comment 69 comments | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

nip nip

by jam0152 on Nov 23, 2009 8:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I may have missed something

But weren’t the bids already made at the end of last week?

My podcast. I'd be very appreciative of any listeners-for enjoyment, criticism, or otherwise.

by Conjunction on Nov 23, 2009 9:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

lol

“Defense rarely sways voters (some would say even in the Gold Glove voting)”

" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers

by gossamer on Nov 23, 2009 9:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Anyone interested in BJ Upton?

Apparently Joe smith from the St peterburg times says

TRADE WINDS: According to an industry source, the Rangers and White Sox have shown interest in CF B.J. Upton

Also is anyone will to take a flyer on Lowell for DH. Red Sox are willing to eat half his salary.

The Red Sox are shopping third baseman Mike Lowell and are willing to eat half of his $12MM salary for next season, according to Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. However, a rival executive says that he would be surprised if another club would even be willing to pay Lowell $6MM.

I’m surprised by that last part. One year six mil. is to much? I haven’t done any research into these but what does everyone think.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Nov 23, 2009 9:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

What would Upton cost?

Borbon is fine with e in CF next year not to mention cheaper.

2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009

by boomer1 on Nov 23, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

cheaper, but not better

Give me BJ

by UNTJosh on Nov 23, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What are you willing to give up for Bossman Junior?

by boomer1 on Nov 23, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Upton is an enticing talent

but I’d rather spend what little extra money we have on greater areas of need, and the trade resources we have on a true TORP. Also, I’d like to give Borbon an entire season in CF before paying a premium for what may or may not be an upgrade.

As for our 2010 OF, I really think a starting 3 of Hamilton, Borbon and Cruz is worth running out everyday, with Murphy as a fourth OF and some reclamation project like Austin Kearns battling Boggs for the 5th spot.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with your sentiments on Borbon

Kearns could be an interesting NRI. He still has plus defensive skills.

We need a middle of the order bat to DH and a LOOGY out of the pen. Then we can get a backup IF. I wouldn’t mind seeing what Freel had to offer again by signing him to a minor league deal. I’m not as concerned about a backup SS as I am about 2nd and 3rd since Kinsler goes on the DL every season and Young had some hamstring issues at the end of last year that hopefully will be behind him.

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Nov 23, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

speaking of DH options

is anyone interested in a package deal of this guy and this guy?

Takahashi supposedly wants to play with Matsui, who has been put on the “backburner” by the Yanks in their effort to resign Damon. Matsui is fragile, but so is Bradley, and they share a similar skillset. Matsui’s health will scare most teams away, and I could see him being forced to settle for a one year deal for less that $5M, and he is pretty likely to give you something along the lines of his career norm of .292/.370/.482 (.852) for 450 ABs.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd love Matsui

by tyd3311 on Nov 23, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he could pull an Abreu next year...

"The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic" - Charles Darwin, you know who he is...

by 8legs2fangs on Nov 23, 2009 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he doesn't hit LHP very well

"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.

by Kinslerhomer on Nov 23, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

are you talking about Matsui?

What do you know that I don’t, because he put up a .976 OPS against them last year and over the past three years his OPS slightly favors lefties, even through it is largely split even.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

AJM said that

I didn’t look at the numbers. Also, how many less ab’s vs. LHP is he getting?

"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.

by Kinslerhomer on Nov 23, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i linked his ESPN splits page above...

his sample size isn’t as big as it is against righties, but they never are.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There are a number of things he could pull.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 23, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

two more quick points on that

Matsui has nearly identical splits over the past three years, which is always appealing, especially for a DH. Also, this could go a long way in finally helping the Rangers get some traction in Japan because Matsui is still a pretty big name over there.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a little interested in BJ

Imagine the dirty GIFs.

That's why they call them business sox

by egriffey on Nov 23, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

!

by oc on Nov 23, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs

This

That's why they call them business sox

by egriffey on Nov 23, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Rec'd it

but now the “Unrec?” is giving me pause….Decisions, decisions

I think Luke French has a lot of potential. TORP potential.-Dstar

by sprite on Nov 23, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

UNREC

"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris

by Chase Irwin on Nov 23, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How the hell could anyone not be interested in BJ Upton.

The cost is the determining the factor, but **** yes I’m interested.

And That Happened: Sports with a Hint of Sarcasm

by philkid3 on Nov 23, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS

"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire

by lonestarJon on Nov 23, 2009 7:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Has anyone heard anything

about the Rangers’ interest in bringing back Benoit? He fits the exact profile this team usually looks for when targeting relievers…damaged goods with past success on a cheap one year deal (probably a minor league deal with an NRI). Is there any reason he wouldn’t be on good terms with the FO?

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 10:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't know what to think about Benoit

The guy has such great stuff but he’s always been so fragile mentally. I wonder whether he’ll come back tenacious after the injury or if he’ll be scared of re-injuring his arm.

He’ll be an interesting case to watch, as to whether teams will take a chance and give him a solid deal or they’re wary enough to just give him a one-year gig. The latter seems most likely.

If the club feels comfortable with his health, I’d be in favor of breaking him back. But I’ll continue to get nervous every time he pitches in a dangerous situation.

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 23, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He should come back as an NRI

I can’t imagine getting a guaranteed deal on the market after a poor 2008 and missing all of 2009

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 23, 2009 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the highest bidder will win

how insightful

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Nov 23, 2009 10:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

well

there are quite a few nervous nellie’s around here who are convinced Hicks has the whole thing rigged so that he’ll win regardless of his bid

Go Rice Owls!

by JBImaknee on Nov 23, 2009 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think the owners or MLB would approve of Hicks returning

not to mention the banks want their money and I’m not so sure they have confidence in Hicks at this point.

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Nov 23, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The good gentlemen at BBTiA

have posted their top 25 Rangers prospects this morning.

By and large, you should go over there to comment, but I wanted to bring it to LSB’s collective attention because I didn’t see a fanshot yet. Also, I will say that it is hard to put Gutierrez below Main after what Gut did in the AFL, but I tend to place a premium on performance at AA ball and above (I place the AFL in that range). As a whole I loved the list.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 10:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

There is a fanshot.

by tyd3311 on Nov 23, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

gd

nevermind. I somehow ignored the “recommended” fanshot section.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't wait until Mike Cameron retires

please, God. I do not want a 37 year old CF in Arlington.

I’d much rather see Borbon there all year long.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Nov 23, 2009 10:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Mike Cameron

theoretically constitutes a potential bargain and is a RH bat with plus CF defense, but I have seen his name linked to enough teams that I am starting to doubt he comes cheaply to anyone.

The other red flag on Cameron is his K rate. We have enough power threats in our lineup. I am now firmly on the Matsui bandwagon, as he is a more contact oriented hitter with a solid walk rate and has the “old player” tools that are often passed over in the FA process (as with Dunn and Abreu last year). Because he is basically relegated to DH duties, eliminating half of baseball from needing his services, I could see him falling into the January bargain bin and the Rangers snapping him up on a one year deal.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I'd take Matsui over Cameron for the same reasons as you

I’d love to see him hit in the 3-hole ahead of our big boppers. Between him, Young, and (hopefully) a less free-swinging Kinsler, that’s lots of baserunners for the power hitters.

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 23, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

What a waste that would be. I know AJM and Jamey love the guy, but I just don’t see it. I don’t want him on this team.

by rclarkjd10 on Nov 23, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cameron

Why would a plus fielding CF coming off a .250/.342/.452 season be a waste, particularly if you could get him on a one-year deal?

by Darrell McKown on Nov 23, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

because he'll be 37 years old

and he’s not $8M better than Julio Borbon in my eyes. I’d rather watch him fall apart on another team.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Nov 23, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not completely against Cameron...

but I do agree that he’s not $8 mil better than Borbon.

I think there are other options out there I’d rather see the Rangers spend that $ on.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Nov 23, 2009 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fall apart?

His OPS+ for the past three years is 104, 111 and 111. He hasn’t missed any significant time due to injury in those three years. Why do you think he will all of a sudden “fall apart”?

Counting on a rookie CF with no real viable alternative is very risky. Having someone like Cameron here on a one-year deal to ease Borbon into the lineup is a much safer approach.

by Darrell McKown on Nov 23, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

but I think Cameron will end up signing somewhere for $7-8M once guys like Holliday and Bay are off the table. I think he fits a glaring need for a number of teams. The Rangers will be forced to bargain bin shop in January this offseason, and Cameron isn’t going to be there.

And besides, why not give Borbon a shot to play CF every day this year? If they are hellbent on bringing in another CF option, they might want to look at Endy Chavez, who could possibly be had on a minor league deal after a season ending surgery cut his ’09 season short. Chavez is a solid defensive option as a 5th OF.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

A team that considers itself a playoff contender...

…shouldn’t go into the year thinking it is going to have Endy Chavez as its CF’er.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 23, 2009 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no

they should go into the year thinking Borbon is their everyday CF, and if they fear not having enough depth, they could do worse than one of the best defensive OFs in baseball as another guy on the bench.

I see no problem with running Hamilton, Borbon and Cruz out there every day. I think that could be a very strong defensive OF and obviously a strong offensive one.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess the question becomes...

…if the organization thinks that Borbon will be a sub-par defensive CFer, what do you do?

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 23, 2009 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

considering their financial situation

I think they play two plus defenders on either side of him and hope he improves throughout the year. Chavez would be an optimal defensive replacement late in games. I don’t think this team can justify spending $7-8M on the marginal upgrade from Borbon’s all around game to Cameron’s unless they dump Millwood’s salary.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What do they spend that money on instead?

And why do you think the upgrade from Borbon to Cameron is “marginal”?

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 23, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bill James projects a .756 OPS from Cameron next year

by tyd3311 on Nov 23, 2009 5:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty good

for a decent glove in CF.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 23, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

okay

I obviously missed something. Why don’t people have any faith in Borbon? I know his arm is lacking, but other than that I thought he made a pretty positive impression this past season.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I have said nothing at all

about Borbon in this thread. Just defending Cameron’s value. But Cameron will quite likely be the better player in 2010.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 23, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well that is true

but I am not sure how much better at this point. And with the cost to sign him probably coming at 7M+, I can’t figure out how Rangers fans can justify it with so many other needs out there. There are too many teams out there that recognize his value to let him sign for anything less than that. I actually think he’ll probably get a two year deal for around 15M…

If that’s the case, we simply have to look elsewhere.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, if it goes to two years

I’m a lot less interested. I do not think it would be hard for Hamilton, Cameron, Cruz, Murphy and Borbon to split playing time because in that scenario, Hamilton is DHing quite a bit for me. That’s five guys for 4 spots in the lineup and a pretty solid group of gloves.

But really, if the team is not sold on Borbon as a long term solution, I’d rather see them trade for someone who is with Borbon as part of the package.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 24, 2009 12:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

they still need

a DH and I’d like to see them make a run at Sheets. A bullpen arm could be an option if the price is right as well. Borbon held his own offensively at the ML level in an admittedly small sample size, so what makes the need to supplement his services so great?

Also, this team has enough Cameron-type hitters. We need table setters more than table clearers/leavers of the table full.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

this issue ties in

with the fangraphs article on adding value. I think, in this case, we are better served by spending 1M on Borbon/Chavez than 8M on Borbon/Cameron.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But sometimes

you add value but subtract wins. I agree with Adam below that Cameron is probably a 2 win upgrade from Chavez. That’s worth $7M to me.

The only OFer on the free agent market better than Cameron is Holliday, even taking his age into consideration.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Nov 23, 2009 9:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Go with Hamilton

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 23, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's an option

It is risky, though. And it then begs the question of what you do during the 30-40 games that you expect Hamilton will miss.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 23, 2009 5:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if the team

did decide to go with Murphy/Hamilton/Cruz, are you saying you don’t have faith in Borbon to even handle 30-40 games out there?

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Nov 23, 2009 5:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"playoff contender"

The difference between Chavez and Cameron doesn’t make or break the Rangers as playoff contenders.

It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.

by WyoRanger on Nov 23, 2009 6:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't Chavez start in LF for the Mets in 2006, or was he a backup thrust into a playing role in the playoffs?

"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217

Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales

by WestTxAg06 on Nov 23, 2009 6:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

Define “make or break”.

Cameron instead of Chavez is probably a 2-3 win upgrade in CF.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 23, 2009 6:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Okay

If the FO feels that Borbon needs another year what OF do we go out and pick up then? Regardless of who you like or don’t like on the team if Borbon isn’t out there, which is what picking up a player like Cameron would signify, then we need an OF of some form, preferably one who can at least take some innings in CF.

Theres just not many on the market who you can probably get for one year and expect them to be above average. That list probably starts and ends with Cameron.

What do voluntary mean?

by JKolar on Nov 23, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs