Potential Player of Interest -- Jonny Gomes
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 24, 2009 10:30 AM CST
112 comments
The Rangers need a reasonably priced righthanded bat with pop that can DH and maybe fill in at a COF or CIF spot.
And I stumbled last night on an item by Ken Rosenthal that discussed a guy who could be a fit -- Cincinnati Reds outfielder Jonny Gomes.
Gomes is a guy I have always found to be intriguing, but who I finally gave up on last season and ignored...and he went on to have a pretty good season for Cincy:
Gomes is a lousy defender, and he didn't hit the previous couple of years with Tampa, but he's a righty bat with pop who will draw some walks. And he has a career .274/.369/.517 line against LHPs.
Gomes just turned 29, and he's arbitration-eligible this offseason, so he's not a long-term solution. But as a one year guy who ideally would get 250 PAs, mostly at DH against LHPs, but who you might want 400-500 PAs from if need be, he could be a good fit.
There's apparently talk that Gomes could be non-tendered, which would make him a free agent, but I wonder if it wouldn't be worth the Rangers while to offer some of the team's minor league depth to deal a fringe guy -- a Brennan Garr or Evan Reed or Tim Murphy -- to get Gomes, if they think he's looking at $1.5-2 million in arbitration. And of course, if he were to be non-tendered, I'd hope the Rangers would be interested in him on a cheap one year deal.
Gomes is the type of role player who could be a perfect fit for the Rangers' needs, and I think he's someone who is worth keeping an eye on this offseason.
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Wouldn’t mind it.
"Stats are like a woman in a fine little bikini. You can see a lot, but you can't see everything." -Dirk A. Tron
by coolaid on Nov 24, 2009 10:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
i thought i read
that they let Laynce walk because they decided to go forward with Gomes. It is pretty funny that both Gomes and Cantu, two former TB guys who had great years way back in ’04 and who then disappeared for a while both rebounded last year with random NL clubs.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on Nov 24, 2009 10:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
2009 Abberation
I’m not sure Mr. Gomes is the answer. I would feel a lot more comfortable giving Max Ramirez and a couple of NRI guys an opportunity than guaranteeing 2 million to a guy like Gomes.
His OPS since 2005:
906
757
782
666
879
As you said, he hasn’t hit well the last couple of years. This is all largely supported by his ability to hit the long ball. If he hits for power you’ve got a decent role player. If he doesn’t, you’ve got a dead weight. He’s been a 3-1 K/BB guy pretty much his whole career (it was actually worse in 2009). As you said he’s a lousy defender. He also spent last year in the senior circuit playing for a Cincy team with nothing to lose. They were lousy. The light is not turning on for me with regards to Gomes.
by Heebs on Nov 24, 2009 10:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Max Ramirez
He’s never hit above AA and was awful last season.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 24, 2009 10:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He was also hurt last year though.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 24, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
But that doesn’t mean that it makes sense to roll with him as part of your primary plan at DH.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 24, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't suggesting...
that he be the everyday DH. Was just saying the guy was hurt last year and that’s why his numbers were down.
He should be an everyday player in OKC to see if his bat comes back imo.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 24, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ramirez
He is already under control, has more upside, and could use the test when he’s healthy. I think he’s far more worthy fo this risk than Gomes. I think they are equally likely to be underwhelming in this role.
FWIW, I’d rather go with a Thome/Dye than either of those options.
by Heebs on Nov 24, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like he was injured in 2008
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
by WyoRanger on Nov 24, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like Gomes here
But I don’t want him as the main DH option going into next season.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 24, 2009 10:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Huh
his line looks awfully like Chris Davis’s 2008…
Gomes 09: .267/.338/.541
Davis 08: .285/.331/.549
I’m fine with guys like this as long as they can keep their OBP above .325 or so. I’d worry somewhat about bringing in someone who is that close to being an outmachine. This team has enough low OBP guys
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Nov 24, 2009 10:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Looking closer at his line
I’d be okay with him as a DH against lefties (we all know how we can use someone who can hit lefties); but I don’t ever want to see him facing righties. He should be the anti-David Murphy. Those two guys should never even be in the same game.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Nov 24, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
im fine with an approach like this
can we be sure that ron would implement it though, if we did acquire gomes?
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Nov 24, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gomes is a total toss up to me...
I could see him doing what he did last year again, but I could also see him regressing to what he did in ‘08 and watch him get DFA’d by the ASB.
If you can get him for a fringe guy like AJM suggests I guess I’d be on board with it. I just don’t think he’s the big bat that helps push the Rangers over the top.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 24, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I definitely agree
Getting a guy like Gomes may actually help the Rangers go for a guy like Thome, who’d be a great DH against righties but probably shouldn’t be playing much against lefties. Or Johnson, who doesn’t have much of a split but should have time off anyway.
But Gomes isn’t helping this team’s awful plate discipline, they need someone else.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Nov 24, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
a Gomes/Thome platoon at DH would be a pretty good option.
Only problem is I don’t see anyway the Rangers could keep both those guys on the 25. That would really kill the Rangers bench.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 24, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well, one can have Fat Eddie's spot
he took up a spot all year for no reason. The other can have Hank’s spot. Done.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Nov 24, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
in general, it's difficult to carry 2 players that you really don't ever want with a glove on their hand
But I think it might could work. You’d need the rest of the bench to be: an infielder that could play 2b, ss, and 3b; Murphy as 4th OF; backup catcher; and the sitting part of the DH platoon.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
by tricer on Nov 24, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if they could NRI German into coming back.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by Chase Irwin on Nov 24, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nvm
I keep forgetting that he doesn’t play SS. Maybe Grudzielanek or somebody like that on an NRI.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by Chase Irwin on Nov 24, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tuglett!!!
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 24, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
that shortens your ’pen by one guy though. Not something that I think the Rangers can afford to do with all the young pitchers they have.
2 catchers, 5 IFers, 4 OFers, a DH and one other player. If your DH and one other player are Gomes and Thome that means you have a utility IF and 4th OFer and that’s it, besides your backup catcher. That really limits your bench.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 24, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A Gomes/Thome platoon could work
if we can’t get one guy for the DH spot. Thome could be insurance for Davis at 1st, also allowing the team to be patient with Smoak just in case, while Gomes could be the 5th OF behind Hamilton, Cruz, Borbon, and Murphy.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 24, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't happen.
Having a Gomes/Thome platoon would require Hamilton to play a substantial number of games in CF (because Borbon isn’t playing 162). I don’t see any indication that the team wants to do that next year.
If you sign Gomes, you either have to platoon him with Murphy at DH or trade an outfielder. Otherwise, the roster doesn’t work.
by cstorm15 on Nov 24, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you go into 2010 with Borbon as your starting CF
How many games do you expect him to play?
I would expect similar to what Elvis played this year. About 140 games. I think Hamilton could handle 20-30 games in Cf spread out over the course of a full season
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 24, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
About 120-130 games.
Last year Borbon played in 74% of games when he was up (a 120 game place), and I don’t see Wash playing him full time against lefties next year.
If Borbon is the starting CF, the team will have another CF on the roster other than Hamilton.
by cstorm15 on Nov 24, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they have Gentry on the 40
I think a DH platoon may be the best way that we are able to solidify the lineup without spending any real money. I agree with you that having 2 guys that are basically only hitters hurts as far as flexibility, but a solid DH platoon would probably affect more games than having someone like Gentry to provide replacement level production 20-30 games a year.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
by tricer on Nov 24, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't work well in practice.
Let’s ignore the CF issue and say you bring in Thome and Gomes, as suggested above.
Against RHP:
CF Borbon
3b Young
LF Hamilton
RF Cruz
DH Thome
2b Kinsler
1b Davis
C Salty
SS Andrus
Bench: Teagarden, Backup MI, Gomes, Murphy
Against LHP:
2b Kinsler
3b Young
LF Hamilton
RF Cruz
DH Gomes
1b Davis
C Salty
CF Borbon
SS Andrus
Bench: Teagarden, Backup MI, Thome, Murphy
Do you see the problems here?
by cstorm15 on Nov 24, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see the problem no
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 24, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
spell it out for me
I see potential problems with that arrangement, but the problems that I see don’t go away with having a backup CF instead of one of Thome/Gomes.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
by tricer on Nov 24, 2009 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly what purpose does Murphy serve on that team?
This was my original point:
If you sign Gomes, you either have to platoon him with Murphy at DH or trade an outfielder. Otherwise, the roster doesn’t work.
By signing Thome, all you do is push Murphy to the bench and clog a roster spot. If you sign Thome, then you have to trade Murphy (which I don’t have a problem with). If you want to keep Murphy as a reserve bat in the event of injury, then you need to sign a fulltime DH. Can’t have it both ways.
Also, note what happens when you bench Borbon against lefties. You don’t have a righty on the bench to take his place in the lineup.
A roster with Gomes/Thome/Murphy won’t work well over the course of a season.
by cstorm15 on Nov 24, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Murphy
When Borbon sits those 30-40 games you think he will Murphy gets to play
If Hamilton or Cruz get hurt Murphy gets to play
If you PH late in games for Borbon Murphy gets to play
Thats what your 4th OF does
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 24, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Murphy playing 30-40 games against LHP is a BAD IDEA
Why don’t you understand this?
Also, if Hamilton or Cruz gets hurt, why wouldn’t Gomes play in the outfield instead of Murphy? Murphy isn’t a good defensive outfielder and can only play LF anyways.
It’s a huge waste of roster spots to have two bad defensive LFs and a DH-only player on the team.
by cstorm15 on Nov 24, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Murphy
I’m not sure where you’re getting that Murphy is a bad defensive OF’er who can only play LF.
He can play LF or RF, and he’s very good defensively at either spot, I think.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 24, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's average in LF, sucks in CF and is pretty good in RF.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 24, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bad is overstating my case.
He’s got a replacement level arm, and even though fangraphs says he has great range in RF, I don’t think 83 career games is enough evidence to say that Murphy has substantially better range when playing RF. In other words, he’s not fast and he has a mediocre arm.
That said, I didn’t realize just how bad Gomes was until I looked up the numbers.
by cstorm15 on Nov 24, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Murphys a better defender than Gomes
Gomes had never had a UZR above -1.7 before 2009 in LF and hasn’t been above 0 in RF in 2 years.
Murphys isn’t great out there but is right around average.
And his splits improved in the 2nd half last year. Not that I would want him out there everyday against LHP but the 1st half last year he was a 156/256/281 vs LHP and in the 2nd half he was a 271/284/386 against them. I could live with that for 30 games or so if hes buried in the 7 hole in the lineup.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 24, 2009 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah a healthy Boggs would fit a lot better on that roster
Maybe Murphy can be included in a package that nets us something that we need.
I see your point, my point was simply that we need production from the DH spot, and we can’t afford anybody good. So maybe we can find 2 no glove platoon mashers that are very cheap and use them as a DH combo platter.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
by tricer on Nov 24, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless MY and Bourbon scoring about 120 each is a problem
Though I don’t like the bottom of the lineup. In the LHP I’d say Davis, Andrus,Salty then Bourbon.
I still believe!
by Ranger121032 on Nov 24, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I do.
I think that if you are going to have Borbon as your leadoff man, you have to stick with it. Kinsler is fast, but makes a better number 3 hitter than a number 1:
Against Righties:
CF Borbon
3B Young
RF Hamilton
LF Cruz
1B Davis
DH Thome
2B Kinsler
C Salty
SS Andrus
against Lefties:
CF Borbon
3B Young
2B Kinsler
RF Cruz
LF Hamilton
DH Thome
1B Davis
C Salty
SS Andrus
and then stick with it all year. Spelling Thome against lefties is no reason to commit $2 million to Johnny Gomes. By June you’ll be slipping Smoak and Max Ramirez into the 1b/DH realm anyway. Murphy makes a great 4th outfielder, with Gentry as a decent 5th outfielder. Too bad about Vizquel signing with the Sox, as I would have loved to have him as a backup Middle infielder.
If you can’t get Thome, I would love to see Guerrero here. He could hit his career average of .396/.461/.666 for us instead of against us and I would be very very happy. (.394/.471/.705 in arlington)
by iblum on Nov 25, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have this feeling that Max will never make it.
I hope I’m wrong.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
by Ryin A on Nov 25, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
also wouldn't hurt if they could find a utility guy that can handle both SS and CF
Amezaga of the Marlins is one guy that plays both.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
by tricer on Nov 24, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the big bat that helps push the Rangers over the top
With the Rangers budget constraints, you get the big bat in a trade for some premium prospect in a package – or you try to get a guy like Gomes and hope for the best. Those are really the only options available to us.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
by tricer on Nov 24, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well
if Adam is correct that Nick Johnson will only cost $5 million, then he’s a much much much better investment than Gomes at $2 million.
Budget constraints aside, this team is not winning the division without a substantial upgrade to the offense. The FO knows this too and will make something happen.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Nov 24, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you can get...
a bigger bat than Gomes for a couple of the Rangers mid-tier pitching prospects.
But who knows.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 24, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so
The Rangers need a middle of the order bat, and it has to be somebody that has a very favorable contract situation. I don’t think you can trade for one of those by giving up Beavan and Kiker, or anything close to that.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
by tricer on Nov 24, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone wants us to find the next Josh Willingham
but that probably won’t happen.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on Nov 24, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to keep...
going back to him, but he Rangers could get Board Game back for less than that. Just depends on how much contract the Rangers would have to pay.
Johnson, Dye, Guerrero, and Thome are all guys that I think would be a better fit than Gomes as far as FA’s go too.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 24, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There's the problem
Just depends on how much contract the Rangers would have to pay.
Which is why he isn’t coming back here unless the cubs are cool with paying 80% of the contract or so.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 24, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For our utility IF spot
depending on what we decide to do with German, there are a couple of intriguing names on the FA market who could possibly be had for NRIs: Bobby Crosby and Khalil Greene. Greene, especially, intrigues me, as he battled all sorts of weird mental issues last year but who could possibly be our next reclamation project.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on Nov 24, 2009 11:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Bobby Crosby, MVP 2010!!!
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Nov 24, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and Khalil Greene is a tool
I hate him like Adam hates Nick Swisher.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Nov 24, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Crosby is less interesting to me, but that's
probably because i have seen him play so much over the years and therefore can’t muster much optimism that anything can be “unlocked”. But with both of these guys, all we need is a guy who can play all over the infield without embarrassing us, and I think both of these guys fit that mold.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on Nov 24, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lets go get Tuglett!!!!
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 24, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the problem
I think the Rangers infield looks like one where the backup IF isn’t going to get much playing time.
So it doesn’t appear to be an attractive job.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 24, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Until Kinsler gets hurt again late in the year
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 24, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you expect Young's defense to improve at 3rd?
If not, wouldn’t it be wise to sit him a fair share and get him in at DH?
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by Chase Irwin on Nov 24, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
it’s part of the inevitable progression. He’s gotta do what’s best for the team.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by Chase Irwin on Nov 24, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I saw a rumor that the Dodgers weren't going to re-sign him
and if they don’t I think Texas should pounce. He doesn’t have the best range on defense anymore, but he can handle the balls he gets to and he’s very reliable and consistent hitter.
by MikeEl on Nov 24, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
26 BB eh?
Would fit right in with a bunch of hitters who can’t draw walks. I can deal with a guy like Jack Cust or Nick Swisher’s low BA because they draw anywhere from 70-100 walks/season. But this guy in 400 PA would probably draw a walk 40-50 times. That’s not good enough if your BA is going to be that low. We need guys to get on base, not another fringe bat that strikes when they aren’t hitting it out of the park
by TheHuntforRedOctober on Nov 24, 2009 11:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
He had a .338 OBP last season
That’s not bad.
And 26 walks against 281 ABs isn’t a terrible rate. His career rate is a little better, as well.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 24, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gomes walk rate has been dropping for 3 straight seasons
The last time it was any good was 2006 (13.7). Since then: 9.1, 8.9, 8.5.
This is not a good OBP guy who draws walks.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by lonestarJon on Nov 24, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And he's not a bad OBP guy who doesn't draw walks
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 24, 2009 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's meh.
We don’t need meh, we need more OBP.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by lonestarJon on Nov 24, 2009 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We need productive offensive players
If we can get someone who fills a need — such as a DH against LHPs — I don’t see that it makes since to spurn him because he gets more of his value from his slugging than from his OBP, particularly if we’re not talking about someone who is a Blalockian OBP sink.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 24, 2009 7:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
But Gomes sucks against RHP’s, and Wash has a blatant disregard for platoon splits (as he’s proved with Sosa and Cruz in the past few years). He’s only valuable against LHP’s, and I don’t trust A), Wash to manage that value correctly, and B), Gomes to slug like he did this year.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by lonestarJon on Nov 24, 2009 8:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The "Wash is too dumb to use him right" argument is pointless
You could say that any player isn’t worth bringing in because you don’t trust Wash to use him properly.
Every year in the majors other than 2008, when he’s had more than a dozen ABs, he’s slugged at least .500 against LHPs. He’s a safe bet to hit well
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 24, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a safe bet to hit well against lefties.
Beyond that he really has little to zero value.
Now, we could use someone who hits lefties well, but the problem this offense has extends far beyond that and all Gomes does is plug a narrow part of the dike by providing some additional power against them.
At best he’s the type of guy you bring in to supplement a larger addition like say, Jim Thome, who has a poor track record against lefties. But if you’re suggesting that Jonny Gomes would make a good candidate for our big offseason offensive acquisition, I think you’re vastly overestimating his capabilites.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by lonestarJon on Nov 24, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the "big" offseason acquisition
if there is such a thing, it’s going to cost some prospects that will hurt to lose.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
by tricer on Nov 24, 2009 9:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you saying Cruz is a platoon player?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 25, 2009 8:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
But Wash kept batting him higher in the order against lefties, who he actually hit worse against this year (as I’m sure you already know).
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by lonestarJon on Nov 25, 2009 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So what?
He’s never been a reverse platoon player before.
Why should Washington have assumed he suddenly had become unable to hit lefties, but could mash righties?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 25, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, maybe because that's what he'd been doing all season?
Just because a guy’s past trends indicate one thing doesn’t mean you should ignore what his current trends are if they’re indicating another. With all the adjustments to his stance/swing Nellie has made in realizing his potential this is, after all, a guy who is not the same hitter he was 2 years ago, and possibly not even the same hitter he was last year.
The facts are, Cruz hit significantly worse against lefties this year, and Wash batting him higher/playing him more against them late in the season probably did bring his overall #‘s down this year. Now, that very well could’ve been an aberration that will hopefully be confined to 2009, as his career #‘s indicate. But that doesn’t change the fact that he did poorly against them this year, and should not have been playing more/hitting higher in the order against them late in the season.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by lonestarJon on Nov 25, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've mentioned this before, but...
…you seem to get hung up on one year trends an awful lot.
Cruz’s performance against LHPs is either a small sample size fluctuation, or else it is a true indication of his ability against them.
If it is the former — and other than bigsteve and Josey, most people think that’s what it is — then it makes no sense to hit him lower in the order against lefties.
If you think that him hitting poorly against lefties was a result of him being unable to hit lefties well, then it makes sense to complain about Washington hitting him high in the order against them.
But if you think it is a SSS fluctuation, then you can’t turn around and bitch about Washington hitting him high in the order.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 25, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think how guys see the ball against lefties/righties can fluctuate for year to year for some players
Especially guys who tinker with their stance/swing, as Cruz seemed to on and off throughout 2009.
It’s also worth noting that the last time Cruz OPS’d higher against lefties than righties in the minors was 2006 in the Brewers system. So it’s possible that what he did against lefties in the majors during 2008 could be the SSS here, too.
Again, I’m not saying Cruz can’t hit lefties, or won’t in the future. But he didn’t in 2009, and hasn’t always trended better against them in the minors like you make it seem. I don’t really think he’s the career lefty-masher you paint him as any more than I think he’s the platoon player bigsteve likes to paint him as.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by lonestarJon on Nov 25, 2009 10:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea
why you wouldn’t make a lineup adjustment based on a sample size as low as a few weeks.
The downside to a wrong batting order is so low, and playing the streaky player seems like a good way to capture a guy who is temporarily hitting the ball.
Especially when the standard lineup is producing as poorly as it was through the year.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
by DJCahill on Nov 26, 2009 8:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's always been league average or better in taking walks
He definitely wouldn’t be part of this team’s problem in plate discipline.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 24, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would have a hard time with this.
The spelling of his first name and his last name has always bugged me pretty severely.
Not mediocre. Right about average
by trza on Nov 24, 2009 11:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
or we could just get Matsui
who wouldn’t have to be platooned and is a pretty good bet to give us an OPS around .850 or slightly less from each side of the plate.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on Nov 24, 2009 12:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That assumes two things
1. that we have the money for him.
2. that he has interest in coming here.
If both of those work out, then yes he probably is a very nice idea to go after. I do think he very well might get more than we would want to pay him though.
What do voluntary mean?
by JKolar on Nov 24, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I really think
Matsui is the type of hitter who will likely slip into January without a deal. People don’t trust his knees and believe his power numbers were largely inflated by playing in the new Yankee Stadium. But I have a feeling, as I stated yesterday, the Rangers might look to sign him and that Japanese left-hander to one year deals for around 5 and 2 million, which I think they can afford, especially if they miss out on Sheets.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on Nov 24, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Matsui either stays in NY or goes back to Japan
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 24, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you might be right
but I have read from multiple sources that the Yankees plan on going after Damon and then using the DH to give their many older players a day off from the field, so I don’t think they’ll be going after Matsui. A team like the Mariners probably makes some sense for him, but I really hope we give him a good look as well. And as you said, they guy may want to end on a high note as WS MVP and just go back to Japan, but I haven’t read that anywhere.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on Nov 24, 2009 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His agent has stated he's not interested in playing for Japan
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
by DerekSTheRed on Nov 24, 2009 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking he gets more than 5 million next year.
I’m betting on name and playoff numbers he probably gets close to the deal Abreu got.
What do voluntary mean?
by JKolar on Nov 25, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We couldn't afford anyone last year
Then we agreed to a contract with Ben Sheets
by tyd3311 on Nov 24, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ugggh
No to Gomes. He sucked in Tampa and having a better year in Cincy does not even remotely convince me that he would be anything more than a waste of space. I’d almost rather have Blalock back, and I definitely do not want him back at all…
by MikeEl on Nov 24, 2009 12:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Gomes????
If we have Gomes on this roster getting significant playing time, we will not be a playoff contender.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Nov 24, 2009 1:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Do you consider 250 at bats significant playing time?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 24, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Red Reporter on Gomes
Red Reporter has a good analysis on what Gomes is really worth, although the fact that he could DH would appear to make him a little more valuable in the A.L. than in the N.L.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 24, 2009 1:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Jonny Gomes = Fernando Tatis
I would be incredibly freaking disappointed if he’s our big offseason DH acquisition.
He’s a Chris Davis-like high K/low walk guy, and he has a .224/.311/.448 career line against RHP’s. A lot of his power surge this year probably came from playing in Cincy, and unless he goes back there I don’t see much reason to expect him to slug .541 again, especially not if he plays more than 98 games (and we all know how Wash killed the value of the last guy with those kind of splits by using him improperly).
Gomes looks like a fucking terrible fit here and a bad player to be buying high on.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by lonestarJon on Nov 24, 2009 6:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Random musing
whatever happened to Eric Chavez? Is he done for good?
by chrisR on Nov 24, 2009 10:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
pretty much...
I think he blew his back out again and the docs said he’s risking it long term if he continues to play.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
by Ryin A on Nov 25, 2009 7:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"risking it long-term" meaning if he blows it out again he won't be able to wipe his own ass.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
by Ryin A on Nov 25, 2009 7:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He can just get
one of them bidet things.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 25, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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