Rangers want to trade Millwood to sign Dye?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 30, 2009 7:48 PM CST
60 comments
According to Fox Sports, the Orioles have approached the Rangers about trading for Kevin Millwood, with Fox saying that the motivation for the Rangers to move Millwood (according to a major league source) is so that they can free up money to sign Jermaine Dye.
Bleah. I'd rather have Millwood than Dye, who turns 36 in January, had an EQA of .261 last season, an EQA of .284 in 2008, and an EQA of .262 in 2007. Oh, and who had a .179/.293/.297 line in the second half of last season.
The irony, of course, is that we ridiculed the ChiSox for signing Andruw Jones, but they are letting Jones replace Dye, who is apparently the Rangers' big offseason target. Jones had a .259 EQA in 2009, so it isn't even as if the Rangers would getting an upgrade by adding Dye.
In any case, I'm going to call b.s. on this for the time being. The Rangers might be interested in straight up dumping Millwood to a team that would take on his salary -- unlikely, but possibly -- but I can't imagine that they'd want to do that so that they could sign Dye.
Of course, this is the organization that, with John Hart and Buck Showalter running things, was desperate to get Alex Rodriguez out of town so that they could spend the savings on Sidney Ponson and Rich Aurilia 6 years ago.
But still, I just don't buy this. I've said before that one would hope this organization learned after 2004 how bad an idea it is not to try to move to capitalize on a big season, and moving Millwood to sign Dye would make signing Richard Hidalgo and Pedro Astacio (the big additions for the 2005 season) appear inspired.
I find it hard to believe that this report has much more basis in reality than the "Marco Scutaro as Ranger third baseman" story.
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Well thats what I figure,
If they are dumping Milly then it better be going towards an upgrade. Dye is no upgrade even though they play different positions
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
haha
yep
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 30, 2009 8:16 PM CST up reply actions
OT
I have always, even since Purdue, found watching Drew Brees throw a football to be one of my favorite things in sports.
Not me
When I see him play, it reminds me of a junior high kid trying to throw a ball that is just a bit too big for his hands.
LoneStarBall....You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
We don't know that Michael Young hasn't privately reiterated his desire to be traded
They kept it under wraps for quite a while last offseason while shopping him around the league. Given the ownership situation, I wouldn’t be at all surprised.
This seems like a classic
“we have no idea what the Rangers are doing since JD never shows his hand, so we’ll make up something crazy and hope we get it right” type of rumor.
Seems like the only real nugget is that the O’s approached the Rangers about Millwood. That is meaningless unless the Rangers approached the O’s. That said, if someone out there sees Millwood’s salary as a decent deal and is willing to send back something nice, then I’m definitely cool with that. But that is a trade of Millwood for something nice, not a salary dump.
Go Rice Owls!
Millwood for Wieters!
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 30, 2009 8:31 PM CST up reply actions
I'd give them Millwood and Salty
Of course, they’d never do it. We can dream though.
Jimmy Johnson for GM.
I'm in the camp...
that thinks Millwood still has value and is needed in the rotation this year. However nobody is untouchable, especially at his salary with a team that’s broke. You have to listen, but it obviously would depend on 1) what the O’s would give up for him and 2) What the Rangers did with that $.
If the O’s give up a fringe prospect and just agree to eat his salary then no. If they are willing to put a decent offer on the table and the Rangers are going to use that money to improve the offense and not just pocket the $, then maybe. I’m not against Dye, but I would hope the Rangers could get more than just Dye for $10 – $12 mil.
I know some may not feel this way, but I think it would be difficult for the Rangers to replace Millwood’s innings. If they are dealing him to open up a spot in the rotation for Feiz or BGL they better get something useful in return as well. Not just as a salary dump move.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Matusz anyone?
lol, wouldn’t happen. I agree with you. Young guys like Feliz aren’t going to be able to give you Millwood’s innings. If we are going to trade Millwood, we do it at the all-star break before he nose dives.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I was thinking...
more along the lines of someone like David Hernandez. Not sure if the O’s would give him up for Millwood though.
Hernandez struggled after being called up this year, but he’s a power arm that could be either a starter or go into he ‘pen. His #’s in the minors were pretty good.
Obviously the O’s aren’t giving up someone like Matusz, Bergesen, or Tillman for Millwood. Actually, I doubt they would give up Hernandez either, now that I think about it.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Like you said before, Millwood still has value
I think it would take more than David Hernandez. Some of his numbers look really good, but I couldn’t find him in a couple of the O’s prospect rankings. I didn’t see him in a list of top 20 this year, or top 10 from last year. Basically, I don’t know much about the guy to make a real judgment on him
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Sickels
had him at nine going into the season, and had kind things to say in his review…
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2009/8/30/1007166/baltimore-orioles-top-20-pre
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
These last two comments are hilarious:
‘We should trade Millwood for David Hernandez’
‘His numbers don’t look all that great, but he’s a pitcher and still pretty young’
‘Now that I think about it, I don’t know what the fuck I’m talking about’
by oc on Nov 30, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
it predates
his statistical downfall. There was a time when he was one of the better RH middle of the order types in baseball, and for the right price, he’d be a nice one year gamble for this club. But the right price is pretty low.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Dye
The only way I see Dye in Ranger blue is if it is due to the fact that Cruz has been traded in a deal for an arm. Then you are running out there an OF of Dye/Borbon/Hamilton with Murphy/Boggs on the bench. Not that I support such a deal, but I can’t imagine Dye coming unless an OFer is moved.
Dye
If the Rangers decide to sign Dye, he should never play in the field; he should be strictly used as a DH. He was an astounding 24.5 runs below average last season in the field according to UZR/150.
In fact, going from Cruz to Dye would be a huge defensive downgrade. Hopefully, if Cruz is traded and Dye signed, Murphy would play LF, Hamilton in RF, Borbon in CF, and Dye at DH.
by Stephen Rushin on Nov 30, 2009 8:58 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
I agree with everything you are saying and don’t support Dye here. I’m just speculating on what could be the potential root cause of the rumor. If Dye were to end up here, you know that Wash would play Dye in the field, he’s a grizzled vet and they can’t let a better youngster play when there is a vet available.
Yeah
Knowing Wash, Hamilton will probably play CF, Dye in RF, Murphy in LF, with Borbon on the bench. Sigh.
But I do think the Rangers may sign Dye, even if they don’t trade Cruz. I could see them using Dye as a DH and backing up Davis at first, especially given the rumors of Dye moving to first.
by Stephen Rushin on Nov 30, 2009 9:06 PM CST up reply actions
In other words
Dye becomes the new Andruw Jones. Old, crappy, and has only played one game at first in his entire career. WOO!
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
Pretty much
I would like to think that these Dye rumors are nothing more than conjecture because of Wash’s friendship with Dye… but they keep coming up. Ugh.
by Stephen Rushin on Nov 30, 2009 9:11 PM CST up reply actions
It would have to be more than that imo...
Millwood gives you almost 200 innings every year and is coming off a pretty good season. I know his salary his high, but he has to be worth more than a low level bullpen arm.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Hey, his name is practically made for the Texas Rangers
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
I said this in the other thread
but if there is a match here, it won’t be Millwood for any good young prospect. It will most likely be Millwood for someone like Wigginton and someone like Eddie Gamboa.
And I really hope this team would be smart enough to spend that 8.5M savings a little smarter than any substantial deal for Dye, although he has been a purported target for years. Still, I think we’ll see him have to settle for a deal at around 3-4M in this market, and at that price I might take a chance.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Wash likes him
And this organization has a thing for over-the-hill DH’s (see: Hidalgo, Richard, Sosa, Sammy, Jones, Andruw)
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
I know.
All terrible reasons though. I just don’t get it. Especially if it is true that the sole purpose of them trying to move Millwood is so they can sign Dye. That is retarded.
Jimmy Johnson for GM.
Old DH's
in the AL, you need a DH. There are several strategies for the DH. one is to punt the position and use it to rest regulars. (I personally adore this idea) If you do this, though, you should have backups who can hit, because they are basically going to be your DH. The second is obviously the one Daniels likes (or more likely Wash likes), which is to sign an older guy who can anchor your DH spot, provide some offense, and occasionally back up your firstbaseman or corner outfielders. Oakland used to do it with Matt Stairs. The third option is to take a guy who’s defense is a bit marginal and make him a dh, like Cleveland did with Hafner and NY did with Giambi. Most guys, however, don’t like it. Especially younger guys. I doubt either Davis or Smoak would volunteer to DH, and putting Murphy or Borbon there is a huge waste. Hamilton wouldn’t be too bad, considering he’s getting over injury, but psychologically, I don’t think we want him to have too much time on his hands….
I'm not arguing any of that.
I get it, we need a DH, preferably one that hits right handed, gets on base a lot, and can hit lefties. I’m fine with signing Dye. He wouldn’t be my first choice, but I’d be okay with it. The problem I have with it is if it is true that they are trying to move Millwood just so they can have enough money to sign Dye. That just seems like a bad idea. I’m with AJM though, I won’t believe it until it happens.
Jimmy Johnson for GM.
Bowden retires and Weis gets fired
there is going to be a much different coaching landscape next season…I have a feeling this is just the beginning.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Geez AJM is stupid
I like how we ran Arod out to sign Rich Aurilia and Sidney Ponson, but of course, we didn’t run Teixeria and countless others out to do the same. No, it was GOOD to run Teixeira out to sign crap, you see…
But yah, it was AROD we ran out to sign all the crap. Right.
And Dye is beast, led the Majors in home runs the last three seasons I think. AJM always comes up with bullshit stats to favor whatever bullshit he’s bullshitting. Of course he’d never mention EQA for the trash he likes like Cameron or Bradsuck.
Haha...
I like how we ran Arod out to sign Rich Aurilia and Sidney Ponson
The Rangers signed Aurilia? Wow. You watch so much Rangers baseball that who don’t even know who the fuck is on the team, you dumbass.
Try to talk less about baseball and politics, because it’s pretty clear you know nothing about either.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Umm
It was AJM who said that, you evil crackhead.
“was desperate to get Alex Rodriguez out of town so that they could spend the savings on Sidney Ponson and Rich Aurilia 6 years ago.”
But, of course, running Tex out to sign similar trash was a great move…
Also
Maybe I’m missing something but Dye’s EQA isn’t what AJM says on this site
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/dyeje01.php
Not that it matters, AJM will just fabricate some other stat to slag him.
AJM still with the same old stupid crap, still in love with the same old garbage like Cameron, Milton Bradley, or Manny Ramirez, but other guys like Dye are somehow “bad”.
I’d say the #1 characteristic AJM likes in players is shitty attitude and guys who are lazy, dont play hard, and are selfish. Even while he loves to criticize every Ranger who came from the farm (Blalock, Young, all Rangers from the system who arent uber young or dont suck) for attitude.
Putz
not the reliever, you.
I was wondering about all those home run and RBI titles Dye had won, so I looked at the yearly list over at baseball reference: http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/HR_leagues.shtml
turns out he’s never won either a home run or RBI title in any league. He was second in 2006, 7th in 2007, and 4th in 2008. He’s never won an RBI title either, being 9th in 1999 and 5h in 2006. on the other hand, he’s never topped .400 in OBA, and only topped .350 once since 2000. Last year saw a noticible drop in his batting average and power, with a slight uptick in his walks. This could be spelling the end for him, given that he’s in his late 30’s. If we’re looking for a right handed DH, I guess we could do worse. He doesn’t exactly kill lefties, either. I’d still rather have Matsui or Cameron or Bradley. I’d love Manny Ramirez.
.370, .371, .411, .338
the OBP of Bradley, Matsui, Ramirez and Dye. (Cameron’s is .340 as well, but I don’t think they’d bring him in to DH, as he’s a great centerfielder).
sorry, but Dye is not that good a fit for this team.
TROLL
A-rod was traded for Joaquin Arias and Alfonso Soriano. Soriano was then traded for Brad WIlkerson, Termel Sledge, and Armando Galarraga, who was then dumped for nothing. (Wilkerson was released, and Sledge was in the Chris Davis deal).
on the other hand, Teixeira netted us our starting catcher (Salty), shortstop, (Andrus), two starting pitchers (Harrison and Feliz) and a reliever (Beau Jones). All but Jones have made it to the majors. with trades like that, we don’t need to sign a free agent.
Hey, Weiters was kinda just ok, how about we trade Millwood for him. we can throw in Harrison, Salty, and Danny Guitierrez. :)
Alex Rodriguez
He was every bit as desperate to get out of town as John Hart and Buck Showalter were to get him out of town.
In fact, I’m not sure John Hart was at all desperate to get Alex Rodriguez out of town, but rather was the one left with the task of trying to get something for a guy who had forced his way out of Arlington, would only go to two teams, and who Tom Hicks had told Hart he had to trade.
To suggest that the desire for Alex Rodriguez to leave town was a one-way street is closing your to the facts.
by Darrell McKown on Nov 30, 2009 11:20 PM CST reply actions
x
To suggest that the desire for Alex Rodriguez to leave town was a one-way street is closing your to the facts.
Huh?
Who suggested that?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 30, 2009 11:41 PM CST up reply actions
being bad-mouthed would do that
I’m sure that the desparate desire for A-Rod to leave town had something to do with Hicks and the media’s repeated attacks on him for being the reason for the team’s downfall. “We can’t sign decent pitchers because of your salary” “How selfish of you to win the MVP while the team finishes last every season” “Why aren’t you a left handed starting pitcher who can throw 95 MPH with a great curveball?” ok, I made those quotes up, but that was the sentiment coming out of the front office. If that were being said about me while I was doing everything I could to help the team win, I’d want out too. I’d want to go to a place where I knew the team could afford my contract (since the players union obviously wouldn’t let him reduce it) and where there were other stars to distract the media attention from me (like David Ortiz in Boston or Derek Jeter in New York).
What are Richard Hidalgo?
Scott Feldman – "The greatest Hawaiian-born Jewish baseball player to ever set foot on the mound."
by Section 339 on Nov 30, 2009 11:27 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Why would we have to put money with
a 200 ip slightly above league average pitcher to get a decent prospect in return.
I would hope that we would, if we chose to trade Millwood, get back someone in the Kiker region plus something a little bit lower. A solid B prospect and a C prospect with some upside. I really just don’t see us dumping Millwood to cut salary, unless we are trying to make a serious push on Lackey.
It seems like a lot of people’s ideas, not from our side, is Millwood going to the O’s for a crappy player and us paying for getting rid of Millwood. Just stupid made up rumors it looks like.
What do voluntary mean?
you ditch millwood for any reasonable offer you can find
by reasonable i mean the prospects worth more than you would expect to get from the draft picks he nets us by leaving next fall. i dont think the rangers wanted millwood back at 12 mil anyway, but their hand was forced when it was either sit a healthy pitcher whos been with you the past 5 years or let him pitch and get to 200 innings. politically they had to let him pitch or other free agents down the line would balk at taking playing time incentives. Now if you’re saying you can let him go and have the orioles pay him i think you do it no matter what you plan on doing with the savings. While only Feldman and Hunter are sure things in our rotation, if you throw out there Holland, Feliz, CJ, Harrison, McCarthy, Nippert, Hurley and even Mendoza and Moscoso, atleast 3 of them are going to end up sticking and playing well which would round out the rotation.
ick
First off, the more I think of it, the more I want to keep Millwood. If we’re going to make a run this year, innings from our starters, especially those who can keep the ball in the park and pitch to contact (with our improved defense). There are too many right handed fly-ball pitchers out there who they keep talking about when we really need right handed ground ball pitchers. Brandon Webb, Derek Lowe, maybe even Chin Ming Wang (if any of those three are healthy) over a John Lackey or a Ben Sheets.
Millwood, Cruz murmurs
Maybe the idea behind these rumors that are surfacing is that the FO believes they can package Cruz + for a rotation upgrade over Millwood, then flip Millwood for something usable and take that $12M to get a hitter or two to patch the OF/DH/1b.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
That seems very logical.
Granted, they better get a stud pitcher under control if they trade Cruz.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 1, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
This just sounds like a Baltimore source to me
The second part obviously fits more with how the Rangers would view the situation:
Another source, however, said that the Rangers do not believe that swapping out Millwood for Dye would be sensible. The Rangers expect to compete next season, the source said, and Millwood is better than any pitcher the team could replace him with.
Hear hear!!!!
That’s what I’ve seen. Though next year’s Free agent crop looks to be better than this years.
we’ll see though. By this time next year, we might be talking about our ace 1-2 combination of Feliz and Holland, with Hunter and Feldman and Millwood rounding out the rotation. (Personally, I can’t stand the idea of Wilson in the rotation. If I were Daniels, I’d offer Wilson an extra $1 million a year to shut up and stay in the pen. :) )
MIllwood will be gone...
this time next year.
Perez can be talked about instead.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
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