Thursday morning Rangers things
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 5, 2009 8:22 AM CST
143 comments
And so we are done for baseball on the diamond, for the next few months. Congrats to the Yankees.
Jeff Wilson writes that Clint Hurdle will be announced as the Rangers' hitting coach today. Wilson says that the announcement was delayed until today because of MLB's request that no significant news be announced during the World Series.
And Drew Davison has a Q&A with Kevin Millwood about Millwood's golf game.
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Hurdle is "significant"?
Wow I didn’t realize the hitting coach for the Texas Rangers was that big a news story especially when a Philly and New York team are in the World Series.
So I guess that means this hire will get national attention right? ESPN will probably send Gammons out to Arlington to do a whole piece on it? Or most likely it will just be a line on the ticker at the bottom of the screen and no mention whatsoever.
Ugh Selig sucks. Whens that old bastard gonna kick the bucket?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 8:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
After the A-Rod/Boras debacle, yeah, you don't want to step on anyone's toes.
by FuturePants on Nov 5, 2009 9:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't San Fran
name their hitting coach
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Nov 5, 2009 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If they did...
….maybe the difference is they aren’t bankrupt and selling the team.
by FuturePants on Nov 5, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
NOW they want no significant news ...
… during the WS. But I seem to remember when A-Rod was re-negotiating his contract, didn’t he announce that he was opting out of his contract during the WS … a WS that his team wasn’t even involved in?
The hiring of a hitting coach seems to me to be MUCH less than that …
by Melmart1 on Nov 5, 2009 8:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
well to be fair
MLB was pretty pissed about that. That’s not an example of them being inconsistent.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 5, 2009 8:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I think that incident is what caused this “no news during the WS” meme
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 8:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There's always been that recommendation
MLB for some time has asked folks not to make announcements on moves until the WS is over.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 5, 2009 8:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
wasn’t it Boras who announced it without A-Rod’s approval? I thought that lead to the few days where A-Rod had broken with Boras.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
Hello Win Column!!!
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Nov 5, 2009 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If i remember correctly
thats when arod decided to negotiate with the yankees himself.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Nov 5, 2009 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He did,
and I seem to remember the yankees and MLB scolding Boras for that. I could be wrong though.
by bdavison94 on Nov 5, 2009 8:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Than why did they let the
Rays Pirates trade happen? Fuck Selig.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 5, 2009 8:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers could have announced it
But I suspect that, given Hicks’ cash-flow issues, the pending sale, etc., the organization preferred to err on the side of caution.
I don’t see what the big deal is.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 5, 2009 8:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In the last 14 years (starting with the first full off-season with the new rules
after the strike was settled), 7 championships (to NYY & Bosox) have gone to the teams with the two highest payrolls.
Other World Series titles in that time -
1997 (Florida) Huizenga went out on a free agent spending spree to build this team which was in it’s 5th year of existence. Immediately went back to gutter.
2001 (Arizona) Similar team to Florida. Lotsa older free agents, won title and then became really bad (lose 110 games in 2004 or so?).
2002 (LAAA) Big market team
2003 (Florida) Small market team, small market payroll
2005 – (CWS) Big market team with mid-range (maybe higher) payroll
2006 (STL) Small market team with a upper-range payroll
2008 (Philly) Big market team, big payroll – THE team the Rangers should model themselves after, if truly interested in winning and long-range success.
If you don’t have a top 10-12 payroll, you’re not going to win a title nor is your attendance going to be worth a damn.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What's funny is that
when I go to “7 championships (to NYY & Bosox)” I thought “This must be Josey.”
|Space for Rent|
by RangerMad on Nov 5, 2009 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what the answer is
because the Mets enjoy almost as many advantages as the Yankees (and more than the Red Sox) but they keep tripping over their own dicks.
It’s very frustrating to see the teams with the higher payrolls have a much better chance to make the playoffs but doubly so when your favorite team is in one of the largest markets but is held back by ownership and management.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 9:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Buster Olney believes things are going to get worse
He thinks many players will not be offered arb this winter. Mostly from the small market teams that don’t want to or can’t afford to pay the arb eligible players. Heremida (sp) in FL is one example. He also said Iwamura was traded by Tampa because they didn’t want to pay his $650k buyout.
So in the future, not only will the large market (large payroll) teams get the premium FAs, they will also be getting arb eligible players that small payroll teams cannot afford.
|Space for Rent|
by RangerMad on Nov 5, 2009 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hermida isn't that good though
Hes a decent player but give me David Murphy over him personally
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
?
He also said Iwamura was traded by Tampa because they didn’t want to pay his $650k buyout.
Why would they have just cut him if they could get a player in return which they did?
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 5, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do they have a 2B coming up from the minors?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Zobrist is a badass at 2B
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 5, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They also have a SS/2B Reid Brignac
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 5, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets are an interesting example
If I recall correctly, only in the last 3 years or so did they create their own sports network. That’s one of the things I find similar between the Yanks and Red Sox – YES and NESN. I really think regional sports networks are a serious advantage regarding revenue. Rangers don’t have one, Dodgers don’t have one. I’m guessing someone’s done an article but I haven’t found it yet.
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
by WyoRanger on Nov 5, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OH NO! BASEBALL IS RUINED FOREVER!!!!!
I bet if you look over the past 100 years that pretty close to 50% of the World Series have gone to the two teams that spend the most money.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Nov 5, 2009 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not ruined at all
but if you don’t spend money you’re most likely not going to win and your attendance is going to suck.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 9:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
true
it has been that way for a 100 years though. Teams not in New York or St Louis have had to deal with ups and downs. Even Boston and the Chicago teams, which had attendance and money compared to your Pittsburgh’s of the world, couldn’t win with those advantages. And as you say, the Mets and Cubs STILL can’t win despite spending more than any other NL team every year.
The two ways of winning are 1) front a ton of money out of pocket, hope that the team wins, attendance increases, paying your investment back or 2) invest in development, hope to build a winner on the cheap, and then attendance and payroll can rise together. Hicks tried #1 ten years ago, and it flamed out miserably. So we’re trying #2 now.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Nov 5, 2009 9:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
#2, alone is not going to work.
The Rangers need to model themselves after the Phillies.
Build from within until you get a great core and here’s the tricky part, keep those players who have Hall of Fame ability and don’t trade them.
You need to have a GM who can make great trades for unpolished diamonds (see Jason Werth), players /pitchers who still have something but are undervalued (see Brad Lidge) and players/pitchers (see Cliff Lee) who can help put you over the top.
You also need to keep your eye out for free agents that can help you. See Raul Ibanez & Jamie Moyer.
The Phillies do so many things right and it’s not coincidental that they win games (no less than 85 wins since 2003) and they’ve also seen their attendance more than double since 2002 (from 1.6 million to 3.6 million).
The Philadelphia Phillies are the organization the Texas Rangers should be modeling themselves after, not the fucking Colorado Rockies.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brilliant!
Hey, guys, Donuts has some revealing info for us today – we need to (get this) model our team after a world series champion!!! Thanks, dude! Awesome stuff.
by FuturePants on Nov 5, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Payroll
Lets look back at most of those teams Josey.
96, 98-00 Yankees: Core built from their farm system. Supplemented with trades and veteran FAs
97 Marlins: Yes Huizenga did have the firesale after this season but this team also had alot of homegrown guys, young guys either from their farm system or acquired in trades early in their existence. It wasn’t strictly the buy a title people make it out to be
01 DBacks: Again they had several older FAs but alot of their guys were either expansion draftees or acquired a couple years prior to the title.
02 Angels: Big market team but this title was won with mostly homegrown players
03 Marlins: Ton of young homegrown talent
08 Phillys: Core of homegrown talent supplemented with veterans through trade or FA
Also the 08 Rays and 07 Rockies who lost in the WS were teams consisting mostly of homegrown talent.
You are focusing solely on the payroll number and not how that number was obtained. As Hicks showed at the start of this decade you can go spend a ton of money but if its not properly spent its not gonna get you anything. Our payroll next year is going to be about the same as this year but with a core group of young players its right in line with their service time. By the time we are truly WS contenders (2011 most likely) our payroll simply by virtue of arbitration and FA will be more than it currently is.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
bigsteve
What is attendance like for teams that depend solely on homegrown talent instead of all streams of talent acquisition?
This team is not based in podunk Arlington, it’s Dallas-Fort Worth, one of the largest metro areas and media markets in the country.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Attendance will rise when you win
regardless of where the players come from. Win and they will come. It doesn’t matter if your payroll is 50 million or 150 million.
This area loves baseball. This isn’t like TB that has always been lukewarm at best toward the Rays. As we saw this year, if you win people will come out to games.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So which team with mid-range to small market payrolls that have won
has consistently been a top 10 attendance team?
The Rangers had a very important game with LAAA in late June with beautiful weather and couldn’t put 17,000 butts in seats.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we had the highest increase in attendance this year
averaged about 27500. Mentioning 1 game and ignoring the rest does not make sense….oh wait. nevermind
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Nov 5, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We also had a 20 year low in attendance
in 2008 (thank you very much, JD).
The small market payroll teams that win have mediocre attendance at best.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nolan was the president in 2008 right?
He gets no blame?
Imagine that
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nolan didn't arrive until February 6, 2008 long after season
ticket sales had begun.
2009 was Nolan’s first full off-season with the team and the results both between the lines and in the stands reflect his performance.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So only season ticket holders go to games?
You are telling me in his first year on the job he did absolutely nothing about attendance? Then I sir tell you he was an utter failure.
As for your one game in June you point to about attendance. You do realize that was at the end of the worst month in recent memory offensively. We were 3-7 in our previous 10 games before that one and had been 1 hit by Chad freaking Gaudin the day before. Sorry but i don’t exactly think that is the recipe for a ton of fans no matter who we are playing. Like i said, if we win they will come. If we go 3-7 and can’t hit a beachball at the plate then they aren’t gonna come. The Angels aren’t the Yankees or Red Sox. People don’t go just because the Angels are in town.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nolan Ryan was given a huge mess
to clean up (JD job performance from October 2005-Feb.2008 caused mass apathy with local fandom) and he’s still in the process of cleaning up.
That’s why we saw a 20 year low in attendance during 2008 despite a booming population shift in DFW.
2008 was Nolan’s year of observing and evaluating before implementing massive change throughout the organization and the 2009 results clearly demonstrate his influence.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 10:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did he get paid in 2008?
His first priority as team president should be attendance. If he did nothing to try and get people to the games then he failed at his job plain and simple. Personnel decisions are his secondary priority.
If he wants to be GM he should fire JD and do the damn job himself. Otherwise focus on his task at hand which is to get people into the stadium spending money so that JD may have the flexibility to go out and get better players
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One of the big reasons Nolan
was brought here is because of the horrific job JD when he had complete autonomy.
He was a disaster and the product on the field and mass apathy of the fans reflect his terrible performance when left alone.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One of the biggest reasons this clubs future is so bright is because of the work JD did
under complete autonomy
He had a couple rough years at the beginning which nobody is denying. You also fail to acknowledge how much Hicks contributed to that by insisting on trying to “win now” which did lead to JD making some moves that weren’t good. But ever since this organization committed to a complete rebuild and growing homegrown talent we have been on the rise. And thus as we saw this year our attendance also is on the rise. Notice how payroll has nothing to do with that
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Although our attendance was better
than in 2008, it’s still not very good given our ballpark & market size plus when you realize This Thing had 34,000+ fans go to games in 2001 when were in the midst of losing 90 games a year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
bigsteve
This club’s future in 2010 is very iffy.
We don’t have anybody in the minor league pipeline being depended upon to make a splash next year and one of JD’s greatest weaknesses has been talent acquisition that can help the major league team win.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bullshit
Our future is very bright. Our current ML roster is chock full of young talent at most positions. We have a bunch of young arms and our position players are mostly set. We have a couple positional prospects on the near horizon which is plenty given our current roster situation. We have a bunch of pitching prospects on the near and far horizon.
Salty, Elvis, Cruz, Hamilton, Murphy, Feliz, Harrison, ODay…..all guys he acquired that I think you could say helped the team win in 2009 and figure to do the same in 2010.
The last couple years acquiring ML players haven’t been the priority. The priority has been building the farm system to sustain success over an extended period of time. He made mistakes in the past that he admittedly has learned from. Until he makes another mistake I am focusing on his successes which is all hes had of late.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We weren't gonna jump a million fans from last year.
We had the biggest increase in the MLs. I really don’t know how much more you want. Its a process that takes several years to completely rebuild.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You've referenced that game before
and it was a monday night. Go look at monday attendance (exclude opening day) and other than a game vs Boston (I think, may have been NY) the attendance was brutal. Picking that one game out is exceedingly dumb, even for you.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 5, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It was also at the end of June
Remember how pathetic we were in June? We were 3-7 in the previous 10 games and had just been 1 hit by Chad Gaudin the day before. I don’t exactly blame folks for not wanting to go see a game that night
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One time
i saw Barry Sanders get tackled for a 7 yr loss. He was obviously a terrible RB.
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
by Michael Cave on Nov 5, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One time...
…I saw Tiger Woods miss a putt. Dude’s just awful.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
by ghtd36 on Nov 5, 2009 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you know that John Wooden LOST
162 games?!?! What a terrible coach!!
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
by Michael Cave on Nov 5, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Napoleon lost a battle.
Worst commander ever.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
by ghtd36 on Nov 5, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I fail to see the relevence of this statement
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just that Josey
is making an argument based upon on one selected event and ignoring the total picture
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
by Michael Cave on Nov 5, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But the attendance for 2008 was a 20 year low, Cave.
That’s the cumulative result of 81 separate events.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then why are you citing a game from 2009?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There's still a HUGE mess to clean-up
that began in October 2005.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The clean up has been ongoing for the last couple years
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers were 1.5 games out of first place
going into the night in question.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And your point?
Monday was the worst night of the week for attendance throughout the season. Combine a struggling team that had played horrible baseball over the previous week and a half and most recently was one hit by Chad Gaudin of all people. Yeah it just gets my baseball pants in a tizzy wanting to go see that
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My point is that teams with small market payrolls
have shitty attendance even if they are winning.
Philly went from 1.6 million attendance to 3.6 million because they win and they invest money into the product.
Look at freaking St.Louis…they put nearly 3.5 million people in their park in 2008 with an 86-76 record but they also rock a $ 90 million payroll.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You may be confusing cause and effect
Don’t you think that St. Louis and Philly are spending a lot more money because they are drawing more folks, and thus have more revenues to put into payroll?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 5, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ajm
Those teams are spending money because they know that’s what they need to do to win and have consistently high attendance.
Winning by itself isn’t enough. You need to sell some sizzle, keep your core (especially the Hall of Fame or very good players) and clearly demonstrate to the fan base that you’re trying to win.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Still
It’s more about selection than spending. You can pay $70,000 for a broken Ferrari, when it’s wiser to spend $20,000 for a Mitsubishi that will outlast and outrun it.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Nov 5, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And as I have said
Our payroll will increase as our players get older. How is that so hard to understand?
The Phillies payroll in 2001 (when their attendance was 1.7 mil) was 41 million. They were also rocking a roster with a bunch of guys in their mid 20s who weren’t making much money based on their service time. As their core has gotten older and is into arbitration and FA years their payroll has increased. They have also added veteran FA and thru trades as needed once their core was in place.
Thats what we are looking to do over the next few years. Right now we are at the very beginning of that window to start adding guys and with the weak FA class this year I think we wait till midseason to start making serious moves to add people.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 5, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares?
So they waited 2 days. Whatever. The season is still over regardless.
by UNTJosh on Nov 5, 2009 8:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees have won 94 games or more in
11 of the last 14 years.
Two of the years (‘96 & ’00) they didn’t win that many games, they still won titles.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tough day for the pro-Hicks
“I’m glad we’re putting our money into a Latin American / Pacific Rim player development program” instead of into players that can play in The Show now crowd.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Josey...
…I am still waiting on those links after providing you with evidence of your unfounded statement.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
by ghtd36 on Nov 5, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Josey's opinions are constantly proven as unfounded.
He then either a) doesn’t respond, or b) posts something insulting. Josey’s a jerk and an idiot. That’s really all you’re going to get in the way of satisfaction.
by FuturePants on Nov 5, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What is your
exact question, dipshit?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And on cue...
Josey proves himself to be what he is yet again. Moments after I post:
He then either a) doesn’t respond, or b) posts something insulting.
Josey calls ghtd36 a dipshit.
by FuturePants on Nov 5, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Nov 5, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The same request that I asked on August 20:
Please provide a link with empirical evidence that the veterans hate the front office, as you claimed on August 20.
One link to real evidence - not opinion, but instead reported fact- and I’ll drop this forever. You have my word.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
by ghtd36 on Nov 5, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've answered this question many times.
Kevin Mench said last January on the RG Show that Jon Daniels is not a very popular person in the Ranger clubhouse.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
x
Please provide a link with empirical evidence that the veterans hate the front office, as you claimed on August 20.
I’m looking for a link. And, beyond that, Kevin Mench has not been on the Rangers since 2006.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
by ghtd36 on Nov 5, 2009 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and I seem to recall Mench wasn't too popular
and probably had a little beef with management.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Nov 5, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mench wasn't poplular with the front office
because they had to special order extra large hats and helmets to fit his huge noggin.
If you want some slack, bring your own rope.
by rangerfaninva on Nov 5, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe because
he didn’t know his shoe size.
|Space for Rent|
by RangerMad on Nov 5, 2009 6:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
YOU
can go look for a link and Mench was in the Ranger organization in 2008.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mench was in Japan at the time.
His observations on the clubhouse are as meaningful as your own. Neither one of you are there.
by FuturePants on Nov 5, 2009 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's your point, sir.
You made the point that the veterans hate the front office, yet you have yet to provide proof of such.
One link, sir. That’s all I’m asking. I don’t think I’m asking a lot. All I’m asking is for you to live up to the standards of this blog, which is to provide evidence of your points.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
by ghtd36 on Nov 5, 2009 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You were given proof.
It’s up to you to find a link to satisfy whether or not you believe it to be valid.
The fact that Michael Young publicly treated Little Boy Donuts like shit last off-season and that it was Nolan Ryan (not Little Boy Donuts) who had a stern conversation with Kevin Millwood regarding conditioning tells everybody how much respect the GM of this team carries in The Room.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Guess that means you couldn't find the link
by TRanger on Nov 5, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't need a link. I heard Mench on RG's Show.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It was on the Hardline
I know this because I heard the interview and I don’t listen to grandpa urine.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 5, 2009 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Please.
I was not given proof. I was given hearsay. I’m asking for a link. One link.
Please. I’m just asking you to live up to the standards of this blog and provide evidence for your points.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
by ghtd36 on Nov 5, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mench did say that
I heard the interview.
But, of course it’s not relevant at all.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 5, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So are you happy now, ghtd36?
Validation from one of JD’s staunchest defenders that Mench said it.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My request was a link to empirical evidence.
I have yet to see A) a link, or B) empirical evidence (considering Mench wasn’t even on the team, it’s as relevant as Yogi Berra saying it).
So, no, I’m still waiting for you to provide me with a link to empirical evidence.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
by ghtd36 on Nov 5, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can we stop talking about Josey and start talking about how the Yankees are fuckers
God damn you, Josey, for hi-jacking my subthread
by BuckyB on Nov 5, 2009 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In Josey's defense...
…I came to him with my request, so I’m much more to blame than him. He’s simply replying to me.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
by ghtd36 on Nov 5, 2009 10:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
I had no idea I was a staunch JD defender. Nice to know.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Nov 5, 2009 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
this is funny stuff.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Nov 5, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Josey has convinced me
that one veteran who had an ax to grind didn’t like the front office, nothing more was proven.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 5, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TRADE!
@mlbtraderumors Royals Agree To Trade Mark Teahen To White Sox http://bit.ly/4qSqW1
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 5, 2009 9:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
For Chris Getz and Josh Fields
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 5, 2009 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good job by KC
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 5, 2009 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When will Mariano stop being so effective?
by tyd3311 on Nov 5, 2009 9:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I mean, it has to happen in the next couple of years, right?
by tyd3311 on Nov 5, 2009 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder that every year.
He’s throwing 90 MPH and tying these guys up constantly.
by FuturePants on Nov 5, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
with 1 damn pitch his whole career
his cutter is like a sinker/slider/cutter the thing moves so much. it’s almost like a hard knuckleball. hitters don’t know where its going to go
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Nov 5, 2009 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well that is the real definition of a good pitch, isn't it?
You are in the box. You KNOW the cutter is coming. You foul off a few, then hit a flyout to RF to end the series.
by FuturePants on Nov 5, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From MLBTR
…Now the offseason officially begins. Players may file for free agency, and teams have an exclusive 15-day period to negotiate and sign them. On November 19th, free agents can negotiate and sign with any team. The GM Meetings are set to begin Monday in Chicago.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 5, 2009 9:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
and so it begins. yeah!
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Nov 5, 2009 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
x
So I got an e-mail from Bobby Hicks about mini plans, and honestly not trying to be an ass, just is what it is, I told him I’d talk to friends and to set me up an appointment with a rep after the first of the year. No reply. Makes me wonder if they (the Hicks family) will see significant revenue of tickets sold prior to sale of the team.
Either way, I’ll hold off until the sale takes place.
by FuturePants on Nov 5, 2009 9:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Our season ticket renewal package...
…came awful early this year.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
by ghtd36 on Nov 5, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have never gotten an e-mail from Bobby Hicks.
Just to see if it was him and not a robot, I replied to his first e-mail with a question and he responded. When I asked to set me up with a rep, no reply.
by FuturePants on Nov 5, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That was the worst WS celebration ever.
Nobody didn’t even know where to go. lol Akward.
And A-Rod—“We’re gonna party!” lmao
by Too Legit To quit on Nov 5, 2009 9:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Millwood interview
Interesting key word in his reply to plans for the offseason. “Heal up”. If his glut aches it would also affect golf a little bit, so I wonder if he has other aces and pains that concern him.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Nov 5, 2009 10:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Another day, another Josey Wales victory
by tyd3311 on Nov 5, 2009 10:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
No shit...
another thread full of LSB’s biggest troll. Yay!
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 5, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the people who constantly bait and argue with him
are as much to blame, if not more
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Nov 5, 2009 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
and I’ve been baited into an argument or two with the clown, but to do it on a daily basis and to try and discuss anything involving JD or the Rangers with him is a huge mistake.
The guy is a cancer around here that I wish someone would remove.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 5, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We're talking about payroll (pertinient because the Yanks
won another title) and what the lack of payroll does to both a team’s chances to win / attendance.
Instead of bitching about what is being discussed, come up with something on your own. Everybody else will determine whether or not you’re compelling, entertaining or witty.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You brought up payroll
In response to a post that said “post-WS hangovers” (which was in response to the whole no announcements during the WS thing). I fail to see how anything you’ve said is “pertinient” ever, but in this case it stands out more than usual.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 5, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Payroll was brought up because
the Yankees won it all last night and enjoy a huge advantage.
Furthering this point, teams that spend more money have a better chance to win more games, more titles and they also have much better attendance.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Was anyone talking about the "huge advantage" that the Yankees have?
Once again, you’ve shit all over a thread just to make the same points you always have.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 5, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So the Yankees winning last night and big market teams
dominating not only the number of championships won but attendance figures as well further validates what I’ve been saying all along.
From ’79-93 (15 years before the strike), the big market teams to win the WS were the Phillies, Dodgers (twice :)), Mets and Blue Jays (who had a huge payroll in ’92-93).
Other teams to win titles in that window were Pittsburgh, KC, St.Louis, Twins (twice), A’s and Reds, Orioles, Tigers.
Yeah, it was a better world when everybody had a chance to compete but that’s not the way the game is being played today. Things have evolved and there is no sign that we’re going back to the way things used to be.
It makes much more sense to build from within, make good trades, sign the right free agents and have a large market payroll.
Rocking a $ 70 million payroll for four years straight staples you to the treadmill of mediocrity both between the lines and in the stands.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gagree.
I take full blame for the subthread above, and ask the LSB community for their forgiveness.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
by ghtd36 on Nov 5, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It happens to the best of us.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 5, 2009 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How the hell is anybody supposed to advance a baseball discussion
around this point?
ghtd36 was obnoxiously persistent today and yesterday in his pursuit of an answer and then threw a fit when he didn’t receive exactly what he wanted. That’s my fault?
All you do is bitch about the quality of discussion yet you add nothing but mundane crap (see everything you’ve “contributed” today) to the discussion.
Lead, follow or get the fuck outta the way, slc.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And that's still an answer I'm waiting for, champ.
I think you’d gain a lot of respect on this board if you backed up this one point with a link. You’d certainly gain my respect.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
by ghtd36 on Nov 5, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Josey will likely never get my respect.
He is a fool.
by FuturePants on Nov 5, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a good discussion point, Gossip Queen.
We’re trying to advance the discussion on the Great Game.
Nobody gives a shat what you think about me.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't advance discussion on anything, Donuts.
You just piss people off and infuriate people so much with your stupidity that they just cannot help themselves but to respond to you.
You are an idiot.
You are a fool.
I would laugh if you shot yourself in the leg.
by FuturePants on Nov 5, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who has lost their message board poise more
in the last few days than the Gossip Queen & Fuck Brett Gardner?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 5, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stiiiiiiiill waiting.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
by ghtd36 on Nov 5, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I lost my message board poise?
I haven’t lost my poise at all; I’ve just gotten tired of “debating” with you because you’re so rock hard stubborn. Rather than try to tell you how you have written yet another complete failure in logic, reading comprehension, or unwillingness to address the most simplistic of flaws in your reasoning, I’m content to simply remind you how badly you simply suck.
So here you go: you are a fool. And I do not suffer fools.
by FuturePants on Nov 5, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Advancing a discussion
requires bringing new points to the conversation, not just restating previous points, usually without even changing the wording.
People who respond to you advance the discussion because they mistakenly think it IS a discussion. And you reply to their new arguments/facts by restating the exact same things you have stated many, many times before.
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Nov 5, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Josey threads are such a beating
can we create another JD/Josey thread to the side. or better yet…any votes on what else can be done? hmmm…
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Nov 5, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There IS only one solution...
My prediction about how well the side threads would work in anything but the short-term was spot-on. I’m beginning to think that AJM allows it to go on solely for the posting traffic.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
by bking on Nov 5, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not only that...
…but Adam’s threats to delete certain content or arguments went unfulfilled. He didn’t delete anything and Josey kept rambling about Davis/ Blalock/kneepads/whatever.
by FuturePants on Nov 5, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I find them kinda fun
Because it gives me an excuse to just hold down the “Z” button and whiz down the page. It’s kinda fun.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by lonestarJon on Nov 5, 2009 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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