Gammons says Beckett will want Sabathia money

Peter Gammons says Josh Beckett, a free agent after 2010, will want C.C. Sabathia money on his next deal

3 months ago Adam J. Morris 42 comments 0 recs |

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I still think they trade him soon.

by tyd3311 on Nov 7, 2009 4:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not if they're contending

They’ll probably just ride him till he leaves and take the picks.

"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS

"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire

by lonestarJon on Nov 7, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He'll settle for iPhone money

I think Luke French has a lot of potential. TORP potential.-Dstar

by sprite on Nov 7, 2009 4:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

What about Jerry Joan money?

by jf55510 on Nov 7, 2009 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good luck, holmes.

"Stats are like a woman in a fine little bikini. You can see a lot, but you can't see everything." -Dirk A. Tron

by coolaid on Nov 7, 2009 4:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

this is why you have to grow the farm

and get your own aces that way. and hopefully at least a couple of Perez, Scheppers, Feliz, Holland can fit that TORP that we really need. We can’t afford FA pitchers like that.

Next season though, Beckett won’t even be the best pitcher on the FA market. Halladay will get more than Beckett.

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Nov 7, 2009 4:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I really hope the Red Sox give it to him

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 7, 2009 4:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

this is just a wild guess

but I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Mets give it to him if they have another shitty year in 2010.

by MikeEl on Nov 7, 2009 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget about Houston

by tyd3311 on Nov 7, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They're too clogged up in Carlos Lee's albatross contract.

Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.

by jonthefon on Nov 7, 2009 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lets hope so

I’d have to think he’s due for a TJ soon.

Must kill Moe. Weeeeeeeee

by Baseball North on Nov 7, 2009 6:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, cause that would be great

if the Red Sox got stuck with one of the best starters in the league.

Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"

by tricer on Nov 7, 2009 10:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Beckett isn't even in the discussion for best starters in the league

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 8, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How so?

"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris

by Chase Irwin on Nov 9, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Halladay, Sabathia, King Felix, Lester, Santana, Haren, and Scott Feldman…just kidding but not really. Beckett isn’t at that top tier of pitchers and definitely isn’t going to be there over the next 8 years.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 9, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it depends a lot on his projections going forward

If he’s paid purely on past accomplishments, I don’t think he’s off base considering what he’s accomplished in the postseason, which compares pretty well to Sabathia.

by Inkara1 on Nov 7, 2009 6:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

What he's paid in the postseason isn't real relevant, though

At least, not compared to what he’s done in the regular season.

by Adam J. Morris on Nov 7, 2009 8:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see why guys get paid based on what they did in some SSS in the postseason

You should be paying them based on their ability to help get you there, not on what they did when they where there with some other team the previous season.

"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS

"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire

by lonestarJon on Nov 7, 2009 8:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

With guys like Beckett though

They have a huge reputation for being great in the playoffs and I’m sure some playoff teams will consider his postseason accomplishments when they decide to go after him. Its not the smart thing to do, but it happens.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 7, 2009 9:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I just can’t understand why GM’s who get paid to throw around millions of dollars are so susceptible to fanboy reasoning.

"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS

"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire

by lonestarJon on Nov 7, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So maybe I'm missing something

But Josh Beckett is a pretty good and valuable pitcher. Why is him asking for Sabathia type money receiving such a set of snide responses? He may not deserve quite as much, but in the ballpark isn’t completely unreasonable.

Go Rice Owls!

by JBImaknee on Nov 7, 2009 9:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Probably because Beckett is nowhere near as good as Sabathia is

Has had more injury concerns in the past, is 2 months older than Sabathia yet will be reaching FA 2 seasons after Sabathia, and has shown the potential to put up a pretty mediocre season while Sabathia’s worst seasons have still been pretty solid.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 7, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know if Sabathia's health is any more certain than Beckett

Sabathia has a lot of mileage on that arm; and by the end of his contract he’s going to be quite a big health risk.

Beckett’s peripherals are almost as good as Sabathia’s – the only real knock on Beckett is that he’s had a couple of really icky years (2006 in particular) and his ERAs look much worse for whatever reason (probably Fenway). Yeah, Sabathia’s a better pitcher, but I’d argue that comes more from consistency than anything else. And if you go by Beckett’s “value” on fangraphs, he’s been a $20 million / year player for the past three years himself.

Like it or not, Beckett is one of the better pitchers in the league. Just like people say Young is so underrated he’s overrated; Beckett is so overrated he’s underrated.

Go Rice Owls!

by JBImaknee on Nov 7, 2009 10:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I think the Rangers financial situation has affected LSB’s thinking.

Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"

by tricer on Nov 7, 2009 10:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

gagree

beckett would be the rangers best sp. blalock+garbage<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<beckett
but that never happened and the rangers haven’t made the playoffs this decade. So while i disagree with the Beckett hate i gaggreeee he will be way overpaid by someone other than the small market Texas Rangers…

by j d on Nov 7, 2009 10:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Brilliant and germane insight of the night, consider yourself dropped.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Beware 2011: The Fortypocalypse is Nigh...

by thedirkatron on Nov 7, 2009 10:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's really good.

And in terms of raw talent he’s an acely ace on par with pretty much anyone in the league. He’d be on my shortlist of dudes I’d love to have going for my team in a game 7, for sure.

But he’s also got injury concerns coming out of his man-butt and sometimes his penis.

CiCi didn’t have those, which is what I think made him kinda a special case when it came to gettin’ that crazy ridiculous gob of gooey cash the Yanks threw at him.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Beware 2011: The Fortypocalypse is Nigh...

by thedirkatron on Nov 7, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

When are you going to start the prospect poll?

"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.

by Kinslerhomer on Nov 7, 2009 11:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

I can see it already. “The Rangers top 250 prospects” heh

After Fuentes blows a save and an Angels loss to the Indians:
"Angels still in first place" - UCI Halo
"Hey you know who would have gotten those 3 outs in the 9th?
Darren O’Day." - FirebatM3
LOL

by hinduplaya on Nov 7, 2009 11:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Beckett's value on Fangraphs is seriously skewed by his FIP

FIP isn’t the bottom line when it comes to what Beckett did on the field, but that’s how Fangraphs values pitchers. Also, have you ever looked at how much money they say players are worth and how much those players can realistically get on the market? Greinke is never going to get 42 million in a season and Verlander and Lincecum aren’t 37 million even though that’s what they were “worth” in 2009.

Liking it has nothing to do with the fact that Beckett isn’t one of the elite pitchers in baseball. Even using Fangraphs values, Beckett was only the 15th best pitcher in baseball this past season and was 13th last season. The only time he was in that elite level was 2007. That’s why he isn’t worth anywhere near Sabathia money.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 8, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

skewed by his FIP?

I guess I’m having trouble seeing how you are judging that Beckett is not an elite pitcher. I’m not one to fully rely on stats like FIP, but I’m not going to dismiss it out of hand either. His ERAs are good, not great, for whatever reason. But he does play in Fenway, which is just a weird park for looking at pitching stats. He reliably has a K/9 around 8-9 and his BB/9 is always low (though trending up recently, his biggest warning sign).

Yeah, he doesn’t pitch 230+ innings a year like CC; which is both bad and good. Beckett is a bit older and not quite as reliable year in/year out. CC is the better pitcher. But my point isn’t that Josh Beckett is as good as Sabathia, but it is that Josh Beckett is still very good, and I see nothing wrong with him starting the contract discussions at CC’s contract. He knows full well that it will come down somewhat from that. In negotiations, guys always ask for more than they actually expect to end up with.

AJ Burnett, someone who is not nearly in the same class as a pitcher and has much bigger injury issues than Beckett, got 5 years, 80 million. CC got 7 years, 160 million. Somewhere in between is perfectly reasonable for Beckett. 6 years, $120 million (halfway between those two in years and total) from a big money team wouldn’t surprise me at all and would seem reasonable.

Go Rice Owls!

by JBImaknee on Nov 8, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

AJ Burnett got paid that much

because the Yankees wanted him at any cost. Contracts also don’t work the way you’ve said. Beckett being right in between Burnett and Sabathia doesn’t mean that he gets a contract right between the two. Look at the biggest contracts given to pitchers in recent years. Sabathia and Santana are/were the elite pitchers in baseball when they signed their deals. They were guys being projected to win the Cy Young each year. And with the current economy and the Zito deal still being around, teams are going to be very careful when they look at breaking the $100 million mark on a pitcher. My guess is that Beckett ends up with something close to AJ Burnett’s deal despite being the better pitcher.

As far as FIP is concerned, it has its usefulness like all defensive independent stats. I just think its ridiculous to say a pitcher pitched that well without taking any non-K/BB/HR results into account. While the defense helps a pitcher out, the pitcher still has control over the way the ball is hit and the situation at the time. What Fangraphs has done is go to the extreme with that in their pitcher values. I’d look at their values the same as if they used just WPA to see how well a pitcher pitched.

Also, if I’m a GM and Beckett comes to me saying he wants Sabathia money, I laugh in his face and kick his ass out of the room. There is no way in hell Beckett should be looking to start discussions with him being the highest paid pitcher in baseball.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Nov 8, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs