Monday morning Rangers items
by Brett Perryman on Nov 9, 2009 11:42 AM CST
90 comments
Looks like most of the newspaper staff in town have been assigned to the Cowboys this weekend.
There are a couple of articles on the start of the baseball GM winter meetings, with T.R. Sullivan concluding that the Rangers have plenty of chips to get something done in the trade market if they desire and highlighting Brandon McCarthy as a potential target. Jeff Wilson outlines Jon Daniels' first day and says that the Rangers will focus on the trade market.
Buster Olney, on his subscriber blog yesterday, talked about clubs that may be worthy to take the plunge on a front end starter. The #2 team on the list (behind the Brewers) is the Rangers:
2. Texas Rangers: They were one of the teams most aggressively pursuing Halladay at the trade deadline, and if they could land one of the big three available aces -- Halladay, Vazquez or Lackey -- they could have a formidable pitching staff next season if Derek Holland and Neftali Feliz (13 hits allowed in 31 innings with 39 strikeouts) continue to develop as expected.
Lackey would fit for many reasons -- he grew up and played college ball in Texas; he's had success in the AL West Division -- but it's unknown whether the Rangers have any chance to make an aggressive multiyear offer for the right-hander, given how their ownership is in a state of flux. The timing just might not be right.
Rather, the Rangers might be more inclined to make a deal for a one-year fix like a Halladay or Vazquez, and there already are rumblings that the Braves and Rangers have discussed Vazquez.
Olney goes on to discuss Chris Davis and Nelson Cruz as trade options.
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I want a refund on my LSB subscription
Almost noon before I get my Monday morning post and then Brett has to be the one to do it? What am I paying Adam for anyway?
He must be off knocking doors and telling happily married couples to get a divorce.
"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
by WestTxAg06 on Nov 9, 2009 11:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The almost noon part
is my fault too. Got a little busy and kept having to put it off, plus the main link there didn’t go up until last hour.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 9, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, AJM is clearly at fault for all the world's problems, just ask jayslick
"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
by WestTxAg06 on Nov 9, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh ajm is out printing new buy one get one free divorces
I can't help it. I’m an asshole.
-brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 10:55 PM EDT
by Jayslick on Nov 9, 2009 2:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Brandon McCarthy, same as Chris Davis...
If their ceilings are high, and they’re so far below the ceilings, why deal them? I truly don’t understand this, unless some GM has a background with developing them (nobody comes to mind).
Nelson Cruz is probably this team’s best trade chip. Not that dealing offense makes much sense.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Nov 9, 2009 11:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
What the hell would you get back
for Chris Davis or Ichabod McCarthy? CDavis was one of the worst hitters in The Show last season and McCarthy can’t stay healthy.
The trading chip with the most value would be Cruz. If he was 25-26 years old, I’d say he was an untouchable part of the core but he’s 30 years old next year and has had exactly one good season in The Show.
For the right deal, I trade him.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i will agree that for the right trade
id be willing to let cruz go, but i dont see other GMs valuing him fully. a decent chunk of his value comes from his defense, and there are plenty of dayton moores out there with a poor grasp of how to factor that into his overall valuation. Im agreeing with hightower that it doesnt make much sense to trade cruz for pitching since that would likely open up a big hole in our lineup.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Nov 9, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not actively trying to get rid of him
but he is the most valuable trade chip we have and I’d like to gauge his value.
A power hitting OF under club control for a few years should fetch a nice package and when trading is the only means of talent acquisition you have, it would be prudent to cash in if the price is right.
It makes no sense to deal Salty, Josh, CDavis, Ichabod because they all shit the bed this year and their values are all going to be down.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well
JD doesnt have to make a trade. And if he does he doesn’t have to deal big leaguers. Seems like if we want to add a big piece that will help us win the division, it’d make more sense to deal prospects than get rid of guys who will be contributing in the show this year.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Nov 9, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
prospects to deal
Trouble with that is the elite guys that we have Feliz, Martin Perez, and Smoak seem like the types that we can’t really afford to trade, and Scheppers can’t be moved until a year after he’s drafted. The next tier of prospects in our system aren’t really gonna get you much.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
by tricer on Nov 9, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
GMs might not see the world as you do, Josey.
It depends upon a team’s makeup as to whether Cruz or CD would have higher trade value.
If I were the Braves, I think I would target Cruz. They could choose not to sign LaRoche, move Chipper to 1B, and pick up Figgins or Beltre from the FA market.
Toronto is quite a mess, and I can’t even imagine how to prioritize Cruz/Davis from their perspective.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Nov 9, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
McCarthy, Davis, even Salty are not really good candidates to trade right now.
I’ve posted a couple other places thinking about which players might have a high trade value relative to projected contribution ratio (maybe makes more sense to just say “sell high”). Guys that I can think of would be possibly Francisco, and Tommy Hunter. And Julio Borbon might be the best trade chip he’s got – if the club is convinced he isn’t going to make himself a plus CF defender, maybe some other team that loves speedy guys that look like CFs and values him that way.
My question that nobody has really answered is this: If JD wants to land an impact player, who are his primary chips to deal?
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
by tricer on Nov 9, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not in a hurry to trade Hunter because I like
young pitchers that show they have the sack to survive in Arlington.
And trading Borbon? No thank you.
Getting rid of a 23 year old with great wheels that has a .376 OBP in his first 160 plate appearances isn’t a good idea.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
who do you propose that we trade then?
Or do you feel that the roster JD has already assembled is fine to go into next year?
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
by tricer on Nov 9, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the team in place right now is going to win 85 games so
no, I don’t think this roster is fine going into next year.
The player to deal is Cruz and let me say once again that it has to be for the right package.
I’m not crazy about trading young players / pitchers who have upside.
Cruz is not young (I don’t think he’s a very smart player either) and in the next 3 years how much better do you expect him to be than he was this year?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
85 wins
What do you have Davis and Hamilton doing next year? Are they continuing to suck or do they bounce back.
Personally I think this roster as is has the chance to win 92 games. That means Hamilton bounces back, Davis is somewhere in between 2008 and 2009 form, Kinsler becomes more rounded as an offensive player, Millwood is going to have some regression, but Holland and to a lesser extent Hunters development should offset that.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 9, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This coming from the guy that thought a 79 win team would lose 7 games in the standings
Its shocking that you think they won’t win 85 games next season.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 9, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Most projections had the Rangers somewhere between
72-75 wins before the season so I don’t feel too bad. The only people who had the Rangers above .500 before 2009 were mindless cheerleaders.
I need to see what Little Boy Donuts does with This Thing in the off-season before I take a stab at next year but presently constructed, with no other moves…I’m not impressed. Simply hoping CDavis & Josh will be better is foolish. This Thing finished so poorly and Ron Washington has been around long enough that players may start tuning him out.
We need to remember what happened after 2004 and learn from it.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"mindless cheerleaders" or folks who saw tremendous potential in the
new alignment on defense and in the new pitching coach.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Nov 9, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I missed all those posts that had the Rangers
giving up 227 runs less than they did in 2008.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I missed all those posts that had the Rangers
giving up 227 runs less than they did in 2008.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I seem to recall...
multiple posts by Adam directed to you that discussed that very thing. He said that they weren’t going to give up that many runs this year.
"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin
by benmor78 on Nov 9, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
227 runs fewer than in 2008?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As a matter of fact...
the cartoon I made dealt with that very subject.
"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin
by benmor78 on Nov 9, 2009 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe ajm said somewhere around 100-125 runs less but
I don’t remember anybody who thought This Thing would give up fewer than 750 runs this year.
It’s too bad our GM didn’t come up with an adequate replacement for Bradley.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay...
so because no one predicted the exact magnitude of the improvement in run prevention, that makes your prediction somehow less faulty?
"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin
by benmor78 on Nov 9, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My prediction was waaaay off because I didn't know
this team would respond as positively as they did to the massive change implemented by Nolan Ryan.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Tiny E not ready for the show."
“They shouldn’t be moving MY off SS.”
Hmm.
"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin
by benmor78 on Nov 9, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When did I say
“they shouldn’t be moving MY off SS”?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I see...
your complaints this offseason were strictly regarding how JD chose to tell Young to move to 3d?
"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin
by benmor78 on Nov 9, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No IIRC
he was pimping Orlando Cabrera after we moved Young to 3rd because Elvis was destined to be a bleeping disaster. Good thing the front office didn’t like that idea. It would have made our lineup even weaker than it was.
What do voluntary mean?
by JKolar on Nov 9, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My complaints this off-season
were that JD didn’t adequately replace Milton Bradley and I was right.
I didn’t think Tiny E was ready to play (I was wrong). I thought the Rangers should have made runs at Cabrera, Everett or Vizquel until 2010.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't remember that being your primary concern this offseason.
Can you provide me with a link?
"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin
by benmor78 on Nov 9, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry if you don't remember
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I went through a bunch of posts of yours when I made my cartoon. I didn’t see you posting about Bradley’s lost production. It was mostly a bunch of stuff about McCarthy etc., and that the team wasn’t going to improve in the run prevention department. You didn’t say much, if anything, about loss of run production.
"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin
by benmor78 on Nov 9, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You know,
you are the definition of a selfish, bad fan. You dont care what the team does as long as you were right. I bet you would have given anything for this team to have been 73-89 last yr just so you were right. Im very glad you are the exception to the rule amongst Rangers fans otherwise Rangers fans would be the worst fans in pro sports.
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
by Michael Cave on Nov 9, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally untrue, Cave.
I’d much rather follow a good baseball team than have a prediction turn out to be true.
I’ve hit on so many predictions regarding the Rangers that one more wouldn’t make a difference.
The difference with me is that I’m not a mindless cheerleader for the team trying to sell tickets. If they’re bullshit, like they were from 2005-2008, I’m not afraid to say it or ruffle the widdle feelings of some of the idiots in here.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If we're idiots...
why don’t you go someplace else?
"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin
by benmor78 on Nov 9, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not everybody in here is an
idiot, ben and your big brother has the best website of my favorite team to discuss the Great Game.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Nov 9, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're full of shit as usual
You complained about pitching/run prevention last offseason, you didn’t say jack shit about Bradley until about June when you thought you discovered a new meme to bash Daniels leading up to the trade deadline.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 9, 2009 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Elvis Andrus' defense...
Was a positive response to the massive change implemented by Nolan Ryan. Get that?
by JDT217 on Nov 9, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There is no way this is not a self-parodying bit
“My prediction was waaaay off because I didn’t know
this team would respond as positively as they did to the massive change implemented by Nolan Ryan.”
No way a person would write that sentence seriously.
"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
by WestTxAg06 on Nov 9, 2009 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One problem
With My prediction was waaaay off because I didn’t know this team would respond as positively as they did to the massive change implemented by Nolan Ryan."
Nolan Ryan did not make any changes. He endorsed some of JD’s, and made recommendations that the pitching coaches and pitching staff throughout the system responded well toward. As president of the team, changes would consist of hiring, firing, transferring, relocating, adding or deleting staff jobs. or by fiat changing the developmental direction for the team’s system. One positive change he may have sponsored or brought about was hiring of Madduz to head the pitching coaching staff.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Nov 9, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
AJM said exactly 227 runs. If you don’t believe me, disprove me.
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
by WyoRanger on Nov 9, 2009 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If he said they'd allow 226 runs less
would that be okay?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 9, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly
doing nothing with a young team means that they are going drop 3 or more wins next season. Just like what happened between 07 and 08.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 9, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that should read 08 and 09
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Nov 9, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Aside from Hunter and Borbon?
Assuming you’re not counting the big 3, Cruz and lower-level pitching prospects. I would say Feldman but for fear of getting crucified, I’ll assume he’s off the table.
by LiamP on Nov 9, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it'd be a really bad idea to trade Borbon
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 9, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Adam has company
Fangraphs touts the value of Mike Cameron over Jason Bay:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bay-vs-cameron
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 9, 2009 11:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Add me to the list, if I'm not on there already.
But, my interest presupposes Cameron can be signed on a 1-yr with an option year deal. I have no interest in seeing him inked to a 3-yr deal.
So, maybe you bring in Cameron to mentor Borbon, who would have the 5th OF spot — speed/defense specialist — behind Cameron, Hamilton, Cruz, and Murphy, if Cameron’s market value is less than Byrd’s, depending on how the Rangers fill th DH.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Nov 9, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Joel Sherman of the NYPost on the "Ownership issues cloud Rangers offseason"
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 9, 2009 11:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Lol, kina sad
Said one Ranger executive jokingly, "We have to call Bud to go to lunch."
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 9, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
or kinda
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 9, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Depending on the price, I'd be interested in Javier Vazquez
After evaluating him for fantasy baseball purposes the last few years, I’ve concluded he’s pretty darned underrated. Last year was a career year in terms of peripherals, but even setting 2009 aside, his K/9, BB/9 and K/BB numbers are outstanding. He’s also a reliable 200+ IP guy.
Put him in front of our defense and he could put up some scary good numbers. I might take him over any other potential short-term rental.
"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
by WestTxAg06 on Nov 9, 2009 1:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That price
would include Cruz for starters.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 9, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. The Braves will need an established power bat or someone very close in a deal of Vazquez.
So, one of Smoak/Davis/Cruz would almost certainly have to be dealt in this case.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Nov 9, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been wondering if I had the choice of Vazquez or Halladay which I would choose.
I wouldn’t have wondered that at the ASB last season, but it appears Vazquez has learned to pitch a bit differently, and I’m willing to believe his tick up in K/9 and tick down in BB/9 relates moreso to his changing tactics than luck.
Last year, Vazquez relied less on his four seamer and more on his curve/change while mixing in a cutter. He got more ground outs and strike outs with this mixture than ever before. I see him as equivalent to Halladay.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Nov 9, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It looks like
much of his improvement came from mowing down the pitcher. An over 50% strikeout rate of the 9 hole helps one’s numbers look a lot better, and likely cuts down your walk total also.
Right now I think Halladay is a better pitcher. I think his numbers in a much more demanding division show that out. Do you think Vazquez’s numbers would be as good as Halladay’s if he had to play as many games against top 10 offenses as Halladay does. I mean realize that The Phillies would be the #3 offense in AL East, and closer to #4 than to #2. And that the next closest offense was Florida which was just over a mid pack offense.
What do voluntary mean?
by JKolar on Nov 9, 2009 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So, let's consider two possibilities:
(1) All of the pitchers he struck out would not be strike outs in the AL. That’s harsh, but it is the most conservative scenario. That would mean we take away 31 Ks from his ledger. His K/9 would be 8.49, which is right in line with his White Sox performance.
(2) The #9 hitters strike out as frequently as the position players. That is one K per 3 ABs, roughly, meaning reduce his K total by 15. The K/9 is 9.15.
Dominating the pitchers had some effect, but doesn’t explain it all away. He had one of his best years in K’ing folks last year. It coincides with changes he’s made in his pitching repertoire. Plus, he also had a higher GB%.
Upon reflection, Vazquez is a 1A to Halladay’s 1. I don’t think the difference is very large, though. Let’s say I would have to give up Holland or Feliz for Halladay versus Cruz for Vazquez. I would take the Vazquez deal, feeling like I was giving up less talent and that the difference in what I would get in return is small.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Nov 9, 2009 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's a quality #2 guy, but not the ace people are making him out to be
If you’ve ever watched a game he pitches it’s kinda like watching Padilla pitch in the amount of time he takes. He also consistently goes deep into counts and throws lots of pitches. Those aren’t necessarily bad things in and of themselves, but it can sure as hell make a game drag on. Plus don’t know that a move back to the AL would do him good. If we got him without giving up Cruz or one of our top pitching prospects I’d be ok with it.
by MikeEl on Nov 9, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he'd be an ace on our team for sure
for another 2 or 3 years until Feliz or Holland caught up to speed.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 9, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he may end up being the best pitcher on the team
but I don’t know that I refer to him as an “ace”. I usually reserve that for one of the top 5-10 pitchers in the league that you can count on for a win or at least a very good chance at a win every time they go out to the mound.
by MikeEl on Nov 9, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he could possibly be just on the verge/border of being what I call
a “league Ace” – I don’t think he’s better than a Lincecum, Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Santana, etc. but I think he’s close enough, and his talent seems to be a bit better than any pitcher we’ve had in this ballpark for quite some time
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 9, 2009 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He may go deep into counts and throw lots of pitches
But he’s still managed to average 219 innings per year. So it’s not like he’s throwing so many pitches that he can’t get past the 4th inning every night.
"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
by WestTxAg06 on Nov 9, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Evan with: Ask Evan: Rangers didn't lie on Hurdle hiring
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Nov 9, 2009 1:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
didn't MLB
also want all types of these announcements to come after the WS to keep the focus on Phi-NY?
the news “broke” around game 5, but the Rangers didn’t announce it until the day after game 6
by kevinkinsler on Nov 9, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Am I the only one that gets upset
when the word “ace” gets thrown around so carelessly?
"Blister please, with those wings in your spine.
Love to be with a brother of mine.
How he'd love to find your tongue in his teeth,
In a struggle to find secret songs that you keep,
Wrapped in boxes so tight, sounding only at night as you sleep." ~Jeff Mangum; Neutral Milk Hotel
by jdh90 on Nov 9, 2009 1:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
nope
I especially get upset anytime Kevin Millwood was ever referred to as an ace…
by MikeEl on Nov 9, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
there are two definitions I think
an Ace can be a team ace but not specifically a league Ace. I think a League Ace, there are only about 10 or so around these days…
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 9, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn, your pretty lenient
by my criteria, though that is still in progress (one of these days I’ll sit down and make a formula or something) says that there are currently only 4; and two of those were added this year.
Santana, Halladay, Haren, and Sabathia
"Blister please, with those wings in your spine.
Love to be with a brother of mine.
How he'd love to find your tongue in his teeth,
In a struggle to find secret songs that you keep,
Wrapped in boxes so tight, sounding only at night as you sleep." ~Jeff Mangum; Neutral Milk Hotel
by jdh90 on Nov 9, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like some pretty high hurdles for "ace"
As a guideline, but I don’t understand why anyone would get upset when the term is throw around carelessly. It’s not even a point of view terminology, like Walter says, every team often has it’s best (or senior or home opener type) starter called “ace” by media, broadcasters, columnists, and fans. I think if’s fairly inoffensive.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Nov 9, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not like I get insanely upset
but I just scoff at people when they say, oh, Lackey is an ace.
"Blister please, with those wings in your spine.
Love to be with a brother of mine.
How he'd love to find your tongue in his teeth,
In a struggle to find secret songs that you keep,
Wrapped in boxes so tight, sounding only at night as you sleep." ~Jeff Mangum; Neutral Milk Hotel
by jdh90 on Nov 9, 2009 10:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Grienke isn't an ace?
How about the best pitcher in baseball, you know, Tim “Smokey” Lincecum?
Or King Feliz? There may not be many true “aces” out there, but there are more than 4.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Nov 9, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One of my criteria
is that they have to have 5 consecutive years with 200+ innings pitched.
Lincecum certainly looks he will make my list.
"Blister please, with those wings in your spine.
Love to be with a brother of mine.
How he'd love to find your tongue in his teeth,
In a struggle to find secret songs that you keep,
Wrapped in boxes so tight, sounding only at night as you sleep." ~Jeff Mangum; Neutral Milk Hotel
by jdh90 on Nov 9, 2009 10:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
halladay and sabathia haven't had 5 consecutive seasons of 200+
Sabathia has been close
Halladay had two injury shortened seasons
Johan didn’t hit 200 this season although he did the previous 5 seasons
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Nov 9, 2009 11:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh, you're right
I thought Sabathia had 5, one more though. I can’t remember what I told myself about the injuries. I think I knock them off after 2 years of injuries.
Like I said though, my criteria is getting revamped and I’m still working on it. I think the term Ace should be only given to pitchers who are really special.
"Blister please, with those wings in your spine.
Love to be with a brother of mine.
How he'd love to find your tongue in his teeth,
In a struggle to find secret songs that you keep,
Wrapped in boxes so tight, sounding only at night as you sleep." ~Jeff Mangum; Neutral Milk Hotel
by jdh90 on Nov 9, 2009 11:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeh don't forget...
to put Mary Jane Lincecum on there…he’s AWESOME!
Good help doesn't come cheap.
- Gil LeBreton
by BigGuns on Nov 10, 2009 12:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your criteria suck
that means you’re only saying who has been an ace, not who is one.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Nov 10, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh, we have this topic every offseason I think.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by Chase Irwin on Nov 10, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For Adam...
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Nov 9, 2009 2:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
ARod is soooo close to dressing like Bruno.
If he exchanges his pants for shorts, he’s got it. Or, if he goes with the leopard hat.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Nov 9, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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