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I do.
I don’t think they’d mind if he took the offer. $1.5m in 2009, so…less than $2m, right?
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Nov 9, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
It really depends
IF they want him here next year they offer it to him. If they don’t I’m not sure they can afford to offer it to him. I bet he would take it if offered.
What do voluntary mean?
I'd take that chance
that Pudge accepts arbitration. Worst case scenario is you’re stuck with Pudge for another year (not that bad) and if not, you get a supplemental 1st.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
I love Pudge for his history
as a player I’m not sure he’s not the #3 catcher on the team now.
What do voluntary mean?
He is probably better than Teagarden.
Teagarden hasn’t shown much, I think his suck was one of the reasons they picked up a FA catcher
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
To say he is "probably better than Teagarden" would seem to reasonably translate
to not paying Pudge 1.5 million to get what is already available for less than a 3rd of that cost from Teagarden. Additionally, whether anyone agrees that Teagarden has upside or not, Pudge definately doesn’t. If we were discussing anyone other than Pudge, this forum would be condemning the re-signing of an aged, over the hill player and ranting about stealing AB’s from a younger, cheaper player.
I think there is a reasonable question
whether you continue to try to develop 2 catchers simultaneously, when that was one of the positions killing us the most last year, or you pick one to go forward with, and get a veteran backup with a little more stick in case your primary catcher does not develop early next year.
Because neither catcher really played at an acceptable level last year, and if you are competing for the playoffs, you might want to not eat the dead stick at a position when offense is the teams biggest problem.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
And Pudge wasn't a dead stick?
The Pudge of old has gone the same way as father time and chemical crutches. He was abysmal in ‘09 and is likely to be even worse next season. Unless Salty or Teagarden can be part of an important trade or Salty isn’t healthy enough to answer the bell in 2010, there is little reason to spend at least 3 times as much just to keep Pudge in a Rangers uniform for another season.
by swampdonkey on Nov 10, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Thing is, all our catchers sucked this year
So we’re probably going to sign Pudge and allow Wash to impede catcher development again with him anyway.
Absolutely no reason not to offer him arb, even though we’re not likely to cash in the pick.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by LSJ on Nov 9, 2009 6:27 PM CST up reply actions
This is LSJ's new shtick
Wash sucks. It’s a reverse Salty shtick. It used to be that Salty would do no wrong, now Wash will do no right.
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
Wash does suck.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by LSJ on Nov 9, 2009 7:07 PM CST up reply actions
You win
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
Well, sort of.
I always thought Teagarden should’ve been starting down the stretch, but then I always kinda knew we didn’t really have a shot at going to the postseason.
He most definitely will impede catcher development next year however, as long as he is on the 40 and Ron Washington is the manager.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by LSJ on Nov 9, 2009 7:07 PM CST up reply actions
Why?
He most definitely will impede catcher development next year however, as long as he is on the 40 and Ron Washington is the manager.
Why?
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 9, 2009 7:24 PM CST up reply actions
until Teagarden gets a chance to start
for more than a week or two in a row, he’s never going to really develop into a ML catcher. Yes he’s sucked offensively, but until he gets regular playing time you’re never going to know if he will improve.
He caught
60 games last year. That’s enough to show something or not show something. Having him start consistently just convinced the franchise, rightly, that they needed a veteran in there.
If you are competing for the playoffs, you can’t allow prospects to give you sub replacement level efforts. Below average is fine, but if you can’t even play at a replacement level, your prospect ass needs to develop in the minors instead of the majors.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
before August
he started 2 games in a row just 3 times. He had 2+ weeks of consistent playing time when Salty went down, then spent most of the rest of the season on the bench. Even if he caught a total of 60 games, he had very little chance to develop any kind of rhythm or consistency at the plate with only 2+ weeks of regular playing time. It took David Murphy almost that long before he had a hit to start last season.
Well
if he can’t get anything going as a backup, they need to ship his ass to the minors where he can play every day, because he isn’t better than Salty, and the backup catcher isn’t going to get significantly more than 60 games.
Unfortunately for Teagarden, he just isn’t good enough to start, and if he can’t be productive with sporadic playing time, he is fairly useless.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
Of all people, you should know what I'm getting at here
Pudge would be the new Barajas, the other catchers would collectively represent Laird.
If Salty gets off to a slow start again next year he’ll be replaced by Pudge and his “veteran presence” in under a month, and nobody else will get a shot at the starting catcher role for the rest of the season. All while Pudge’s “veteran presence” puts up the same .300 wOBA any of the young guys would’ve.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by LSJ on Nov 9, 2009 9:13 PM CST up reply actions
In 2010...
…I want to see whoever is going to give the team the best chance to win out there.
If that’s Pudge, then I’d rather see Pudge playing every day than Salty.
2010 is about winning.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 9, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
See, I don't think
A 37 y/o who has wOBA’d .306, .317 and .287 the last three seasons will be giving us a better chance of winning than any of our other catchers.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by LSJ on Nov 9, 2009 9:18 PM CST up reply actions
And if that's the case
then they should play over Pudge. That doesn’t mean that the catcher’s development gets ruined
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
All Wash sees is "veteran presence"
Like I said, if Salty gets off to a slow start again, we’re screwed.
Now, if he starts strong and hits like the player I used to think he could be, then I’m cool with Pudge as the veteran backup.
Thing, is, I don’t really think Salty can do that.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
Salty
has to stand on his own next year. I think since neither catcher particularly stepped up, we need to dump one (either trade Teagarden or move him to the minors as injury protection), and get a reliable veteran as a backup incase Salty has another below replacement level season.
At some point, after 3 seasons in the majors, Salty has to stand on his own. We can’t continue to get below replacement level offense at a couple positions like C or 1B.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
Oddly enough
Barajas has been the Rangers best post-Pudge catcher.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
SS is a much weaker over all position than a COF.
So Cabrera is a higher rated player than Crawford. I don’t agree with the idea in general but in any ranking system you have to compare apples to apples. And a SS and a COF aren’t both the exact same fruit.
What do voluntary mean?
Jermaine Dye is a Type A
Hopefully that squashes any interest on the part of the Rangers.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
Its great that Byrd is a type B
That pretty much guarantees that he’ll get paid this offseason by a non-Rangers team while the Rangers can still get some draft pick compensation. Right now, it seems risky for any non-elite talents who get that Type A compensation.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
More of an NFL phrase...
But you can never have too many draft picks. I’m going to hope they offer Pudge and hope he declines thinking he can start somewhere else.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
why?
Do you think he accepts arbitration because he wants to stay a Ranger?
Or because he won’t get money on the open market?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
because he won’t get money on the open market
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Nov 9, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions
I think he'll get around 1.25
Get a couple teams interested and it could bump to 1.5 again. Hes made enough money in his career I don’t think half a million dollars is enough to make him turn down free agency
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Do you think he accepts arbitration because he wants to stay a Ranger?
Both. Pudge didn’t do anything in 2009 to warrant the amount he was paid, much less deserve a raise for 2010.
Not to go all LSJ on you
But according to fangraphs he was worth 3.8 million in 2009 and only made 1.5 mil.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Fangraphs values and actual market values are very, very different
so unless you can find a team willing to pay $3.8 million to a 38 year old .249 .280 .383 .662 catcher, the fangraphs values are meaningless.
by swampdonkey on Nov 10, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
Vlad is actually a type B
he was projected as a type A.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Pudge will probably accept arbitration
and I wouldn’t be surprised to see us sign a free agent that would cost us a pick.
Elias rankings
When is MLB going to modify how they do these silly rankings?
LoneStarBall....You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
by LSBUser on Nov 9, 2009 9:03 PM CST reply actions
Probably around the same time they introduce robot umpires and Joe Buck realizes OPS has been around for 20+ years
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
"...he wasn’t a good hitter, just a good middle of the order bat that hit a lot of homers." - NYTXFAN on Mark McGwire
by LSJ on Nov 9, 2009 9:14 PM CST up reply actions
Joe Buck better not still be around
by the time they introduce robot umpires. That’s far too many years of sucking announcing.
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