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Harden > Millwood


The purpose of this fanpost is to find out whether having a lg avg Millwood or a dynamic, albeit oft-injured, Harden is better for the Rangers.  Let me add a few disclaimers.  I am operating on the assumption that there is no way the Rangers could have kept Millwood and still acquired Harden.  I am also assuming the Rangers have/will do the proper due diligence on Harden so that he will not be damaged goods.   The only stat im going to pay particular attention to is ERA+ because Im not knowledgeable enough about tRA, FIP, etc.  Since I have a decent understanding of ERA+ I feel it can very useful for comparisons's sake.

 

Millwood:

While not being the ace some of us envisioned Millwood was valuable.  He was a league average pitcher for a team that holds that at a premium.  In his four years with Texas Millwood averaged 188 IPs and had an ERA+ of 102.  Okay numbers but definitely not ace quality.   His best year was last year was last year when he sported an ERA+ of 127.  According to those that know more than I do about peripherals, his were perhaps the worst of his 4 yr stint with the Rangers.  He was helped largely by a good to great defense.   Basically, his average year for the Rangers was 31 starts, 188 IPs and an ERA+ of 102. 

Harden:

I think many would agree that Harden's "stuff" is ace quality.  However, he has rightly gotten the reputation for being injury prone.  His past four years he has pitched very well when healthy.    The past two years he has actually only started one less game than John Lackey, I believe.   He had a lights out 2008 and 2009 was actually subpar by his standards.  His peripherials suffered.  Was that simply a blip or a harbinger of things to come?  His past 4 years he has averaged 16 starts, 90 IPs, and had an ERA+ of 155. 

The comparison:

Assume that Harden simply replaces Millwood as a TORP for the Rangers.  Lets say the other Rangers that are in the rotation to start the season are Feldman, Hunter, Holland, and McCarthy.  Harrison, Hurley, Feliz, Nippert, et al among many on the outside looking in.   This team does NOT lack rotation candidates.  With Millwood you knew what you were going to get:  188 innings of strictly league average pitching.   Let's assume that Harden ONLY gets his average of 90 innings in during 16 starts.  With that we would also have to assume that he achieves his average ERA+ over the past four years of 155.  Well with Harden only getting 16 starts someone else has to make the other roughly 16 starts, right?   The rangers still need to make up 98 innings that Millwood would have gotten them.  Who makes them up?  I am going to be conservative and say Matt Harrison does.  Him and Derek Holland had the lowest ERA+ (76) of any Rangers starter with at least 10 starts.  So what does the two headed monster of Harrison (if he repeats his performance from last yr) and Harden give you?  188 IPs and an ERA+ of 114.  This is 12 pts better than what Millwood would give you.

I am making some very pessimistic assumptions here too.  Im assuming that Harden only gives you 90 innings.  What if he gave the Rangers 144 (what he has averaged the past 2 yrs) and Harrison only had to pony up 44 innings?  The ERA+ jumps up to 136.  MUCH better than what Millwood has historically given the Rangers.  I am also assuming that Harrison or whomever would replace Harden, if injured, would perform very poorly.  Feliz could very well replace Harden, Nippert could, Hurley, etc. 

So this brings all of us to THE big question.  Did the Rangers improve themselves by trading Millwood and then using the savings to sign Harden?  In my opinion, the answer is a prohibitive.....YES. 

Comment 21 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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How many extra wins does that improved ERA+ lead to?

And how many wins get taken away by the added strain on the bullpen not only for the extra innings in Hardens starts but the extra innings when the younger guys take his spot? I would estimate it evens out if not makes it a negative especially if we remove CJ and Feliz from the pen.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 10, 2009 5:06 PM CST reply actions  

Ok, let's just make safe moves then

you’d end up with a big payroll and an 80-win team. You have to take risks if you want to win, especially if your payroll is as limited as the Rangers is right now. Harden is MUCH better than Millwood, and if he pitches even 140-150 innings you’ve upgraded the top spot in your rotation by quite a bit, maybe 2 wins. At no added cost. That’s a slam dunk.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 10, 2009 6:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I love the fact JD has been creative and made moves even though we had no money to work with

I just don’t think we improved overall enough to give us any greater chance at making the playoffs.

Im gonna be thrilled to watch Harden pitch don’t get me wrong.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 10, 2009 6:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Okay...

but you do think the team improved though, right? And if this team isn’t good enough to make the playoffs then the team before these moves were made certainly wasn’t good enough either.

t’s point is valid. The Rangers could have played it safe and probably been a mediocre team. Instead JD got creative and rolled the dice. Really the only thing he could do with the current state of ownership to try and get this team to the next level.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Dec 10, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I think we improved our #1 pitcher slot

The team stayed the same IMO.

I give credit to JD for being creative and finding a way to add such a talent like Harden but seeing as how it came at the cost of Millwood I don’t think it improved the team over the course of a 162 game season.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 11, 2009 8:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Good fanpost

Also, there’s no guarantee that Millwood doesn’t get worse. His K rate and BB rate were alarmingly bad last year.

by Randy Richardson on Dec 10, 2009 5:11 PM CST reply actions  

Good post & I agree

The Rangers past couldn’t have taken this type of gamble, but we now have a number of young pitcher’s who can be expected to deliver league avg (or close) stats……not to mention they need the opportunity & experience…….Teams win by having a few great players, which Harden CAN be, not by having league avg (or below) at every spot.

As posted by another, were this a team option decision, say pay Millwood $12 mil or buy him out for $3 mil, (in it’s entirity, with no financial concerns, etc) very few on here would argue against the buyout.

Additionally, it looks like JD has basically traded Millwood (or his $$$) & MaxRam for Rich Harden, Mike Lowell, Chris Ray & Ben Snyder with maybe even a mil or two to spare. Pretty damn good work in any environment, but, and especially under the financial constraints he’s working with.

by tklawless on Dec 10, 2009 5:12 PM CST reply actions  

I've seen 6 of my friends on Facebook

with “Rich Harden is no Kevin Millwood” status. I’m about to fucking lose it.

The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981

by TxStCa on Dec 10, 2009 6:05 PM CST reply actions  

They're right

but not like they think.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 10, 2009 6:12 PM CST up reply actions  

There are people out there who believe Millwood is better than Harden.

I typed it, and it still makes no sense.

Lisa, if the Bible has taught us nothing else - and it hasn't - it's that girls should stick to girls' sports, such as hot-oil wrestling, foxy boxing, and such-and-such.

Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Thursdays, 10 PM - 1 AM, on FM 88.7 The Choice, or online @ ktcu.net!

by Maximilian on Dec 10, 2009 6:27 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Heh, +1

I failed my LSB ethics test.

"WHAT A SHITLOAD OF FUCK" - LL's "Poochie" on Rich Harden signing with Texas over Seattle

by LSJ on Dec 10, 2009 6:37 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah

ill buy that harden is an injury risk and millwood is relatively reliable, but the people who defer to that as proof positive that millwood is more valuable dont realize just how fucking dominant harden is when he’s out there.

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Dec 10, 2009 6:29 PM CST up reply actions  

This

They will drag you down to their level sooner or later.

2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009

by boomer1 on Dec 10, 2009 9:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I have been blasted for this before but

still do not like the Harden for Milly deal for the 2010 Rangers given the circumstances.

First let me make it perfectly clear that I love Harden as a pitcher. Where I figure I go wrong is refusing to be a Milly hater.

If both are healthy give me Harden over Milly to win game 7 of the world series. No doubt about it. On the other hand give me Milly over Harden for 162 season to get to the post season. Considering the Ranger SP depth, talent and lack of experience I think Milly helps you get to the post season where I hope for one of the other SP to be the man for game #7.

As always I could be wrong. Watch Harden pitch 215 innings and Milly go on the DL for the entire season.

by Bigfan16 on Dec 10, 2009 8:43 PM CST reply actions  

I don't think Millwood

would have led the Rangers to the playoffs. Harden won’t either unless he pitches ~150 innings.

|Space for Rent|

by RangerMad on Dec 10, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Millwood

isn’t capable of “leading” a team anywhere.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 10, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Not true...

He could certainly lead them to the buffet table.

by Bandire on Dec 10, 2009 11:57 PM CST up reply actions  

heh...the first one there the last to leave...

So who's todays mistress? They're coming out of the Woodswork!

by BigGuns on Dec 11, 2009 12:14 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

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