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Joe Sheehan on the Ramirez-Lowell deal



Finally, the Rangers appear set to trade Max Ramirez for Mike Lowell and all the money necessary to pay Lowell. This doesn’t make much sense; even noting Ramirez lousy, injury-plagued season, he has value as a prospect with strong hitting skills and some potential ability to catch. Less value than he did a year ago, to be sure, but still… value. Mike Lowell doesn’t, especially to the Rangers, who have a third baseman, Michael Young, who plays 97 percent of the available innings. For the Rangers, Lowell is a right-handed 1B/DH, and the "first base" part of the proposition is pushing it—his experience there consists of four games in Triple-A in 1998. The standard for being a bat, only a bat, is very high, and I’m not sure Lowell, who may now be the slowest player in baseball, meets it. This is one of those deals that sounds good, "Hey, a free Mike Lowell," but when you look at the specifics, it doesn’t work for the team involved. The Rangers are giving up all of Ramirez’s potential, diminished though it may be, for the kind of player, a right-handed DH, that exists for free throughout the industry. It’s a waste of a resource in Ramirez. I might compare the move to the Dodgers’ acquisition of Casey Blake in that the team’s refusal or inability to take on salary forced them to give up a good prospect. I do not—have never—understood the administration of baseball teams on a penny-wise, pound-foolish basis.

I hope this deal isn't complete and falls through.  It would be a huge mistake for the Rangers.

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huge mistake

probably not, I doubt Max is going to do enough to make it that. Not the best among those that are available to the Rangers—that I do agree with. For $3 million plus what you could get for Max I think the Rangers can do better for dh/back up first baseman.

by Dalman on Dec 11, 2009 7:21 AM CST reply actions  

A HUGE mistake.....

would be having someone like Andruw/Sammy as the DH……Max has basically NO value any more……he had some, but has been run over by the prospect truck that is now our farm system……although I don’t agree with Nolan (God) on very much, Lowell will be a big asset in the clubhouse for the younger guys, wait basically ALL the Ranger’s who have never won ANYTHING, much less 3 World Series and a World Series MVP!

by tklawless on Dec 12, 2009 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

you dont sell low on prospects

you BUY low on prospects

honestly, whats the difference in these two deals:

maxram for lowell + ~8 mill

ray for millwood + ~8 mil

not a lot. and im sorry, but talent should always >>> “clubhouse” presence.

im pretty sure your being sarcastic…but stilll.

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 12, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Pretty much exactly the way I feel.

I failed my LSB ethics test.

"WHAT A SHITLOAD OF FUCK" - LL's "Poochie" on Rich Harden signing with Texas over Seattle

by LSJ on Dec 11, 2009 7:22 AM CST reply actions  

Yeah, me too.

I feel like I just wrote the same thing in part of the AM post.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Dec 11, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Very well put

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Dec 11, 2009 7:27 AM CST reply actions  

I think saying it's a HUGE mistake

is exaggeration, but it is a mistake and I keep hoping Lowell will fail his physical. Lowell has nothing on any number of other guys who could fill that need later in the offseason without giving up Max.

I’d rather keep Max even if he never amounted to anything.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 11, 2009 8:10 AM CST reply actions  

Yeah

Max may well never amount to anything, since at this point he appears to be a 25 yo DH who has never hit above AA, but Lowell is fairly underwhelming.

A guy who looks to bring 400 PAs of average to below OBP is not exactly what this team is screaming for. I get really concerned with the OBP of next years team.

"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland

by DJCahill on Dec 11, 2009 10:31 AM CST up reply actions  

That is my concern

that we aren’t getting a guy that can get on base, but the problem is not Lowell, it was Hamilton, Davis, TT, Salty, Blalock etc. The entire team sucked. Lowell is around league average, but my concern lays with the rest of the hitters to adjust their approach. That is where Hurdle will hopefully come in as a key acquisition.

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Dec 11, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

lowell has a 104 ops+ the last 5 years i believe

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 12, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Sure, but

If the Rangers trade away prospects based on low-end projections for each one, especially without considering the ceiling, they would never get back fair value in a trade. I’m not saying you can’t trade Max, but I would like to ‘sell higher’ as it were.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Dec 11, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

And what does a healthy Max bring to the table?

OBP.

Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...

Hi, Keith. Is this the year Edinson Volquez finally wins RoY?

by Brian Thomas on Dec 11, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Max

Starting to take on the taint of Botts.

Whether that’s accurate, the deal underwhelms because Lowell underwhelms.

"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks

by hightowersmith on Dec 11, 2009 8:18 AM CST up reply actions  

where did you get this

the guy had two wrist injuries

botts had a huge hole in his swing IIRC

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 12, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

probably a bit extreme yes

I think what I am bothered most by this is that the lack of ability to take on payroll causes them to give up a guy like Ramierez just so the other team takes on salary.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Dec 11, 2009 8:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep

very frustrating. But even with their constraints it seems there will be a couple of guys available for the backup 1B/DH role later in the offseason for not much money, or a lower cost in trade. There is just no reason to make this deal right now.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 11, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree

I don’t understand the rush to make this happen. I could understand it if Boston needed to shed some money right away to pursue Beltre, but they obviously don’t.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 11, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

What about the possibility that JD

had to spend money while he had it?

Maybe there was a possibility that MLB was going to come back in a couple of weeks and say the budget was going to be slashed further? Is that what happened with Purke…funds that were supposed to be earmarked for Arlington in August were taken back?

Just throwing it out there because this deal is so out of whack (unless they are 100% sure that Max isn’t going to cut it in The Show) but that may be the only rationalization.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 11, 2009 9:59 AM CST up reply actions  

another thing may be

that they just don’t think he will ever fully recover from the wrist surgeries.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Dec 11, 2009 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

What about the possibility...

that you are actually an annoying pixie with wings and a wand? I probably have more evidence for my claim than you do yours…

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Dec 11, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Josey, I love when you are rationally arguing

I like (not love) the deal if they pay ALL of Lowell’s contract. $3M is not worth Lowell + a prospect.

However, if Lowell comes in, faces only lefties, and puts up the .867 OPS he did last year, this would be a steal (assuming we don’t pay the $3M)…

by BuckyB on Dec 11, 2009 6:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Lowell only had 143 ab's

v LH pitching last year.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 12, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions  

961 OPS in 88 abs in 08

I’m kind of curious why he wasn’t used against lefties more

by BuckyB on Dec 12, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, he only had a little more than 400 ABs total in 2008

I mean, really, what percentage of pitchers are lefties? I think it’s around 25%, so it doesn’t seem extraordinary that he would have faced only 20% lefties in any given year.

The 20% or so ABs he had against lefties that year is right in line with his career numbers.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 12, 2009 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

If you average 4 ABs a game

Thats about 35 games. Lefties probably make up 30-35% of the starts you face in a season and 35 games is a little under 25%. So he probably only missed out on a few dozen ABs during the course of the year against them.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 12, 2009 6:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Where does Max fit in for Boston?

I highly highly doubt he sticks at catcher. Is Ortiz gone after this season? If not where are they gonna stash Max? Hes out of options after this season and with Youkliss at 1B I don’t see any room for him unless Ortiz is gone which I don’t see happening.

Ok just looked it up. Ortiz is signed through 2010 with a 2011 club option for the same price as the last 4 years (12.5 million)

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 11, 2009 8:21 AM CST reply actions  

They are probably going to move Youk to third

I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.

by DerekSTheRed on Dec 11, 2009 8:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Naw

Their going to get Beltre.

"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.

by Kinslerhomer on Dec 11, 2009 8:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Max is a DH candidate. It's not like Max is going to step in this year and outhit Ortiz.

It’s a long shot to think that could occur. Really, that means moving Ortiz next year, if Max puts up a stellar AAA season this year.

Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.

by rooster on Dec 11, 2009 8:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Given Ortiz's decline in recent years

and the steroids issue with him, this move could just be one of a few the Red Sox will make to try and get a good replacement for Ortiz if he struggles this year.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 11, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Backup catcher/DH/trade bait.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Dec 11, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

hes going to play C at AAA this next year

all year.

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 12, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

then backup C/DH/whatever

the point is that you cant have TOO MUCH talent in your minors…

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 12, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I doubt it will be a huge mistake

but I still am not a fan.

Not mediocre. Right about average

by trza on Dec 11, 2009 8:50 AM CST reply actions  

I do not agree at all with the idea that Lowell types are freely available.

I’m not excited about moving Max, but moving Max will not prevent a the Rangers from acquiring another player later. The Rangers might be overpaying, but what they are getting in return is less risk of dropoff in DH production and very likely an increase. They’re trading long-term potential for reduced risk. That’s a reasonable thing to do.

I don’t know if Max is over or under rated at this point. I still have the feeling he could have an Edgar Martinez year in him, but it would seem that year would very likely be a few years off.

It’s not an ideal trade, because JD isn’t in a position where he can wait and time the market just right. But, it is a reasonable one, and it does increase significantly the odds that the DH production will improve over last year’s. Those are really good things, and I think some folks are overlooking the bottom line by overemphasizing value.

Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.

by rooster on Dec 11, 2009 8:52 AM CST reply actions  

I agree with a lot of that

but Lowell is not without risks and I think if what you’re looking for is basically a platoon guy at 1b/DH that kind of guy shouldn’t be too hard to find.

Either find a different trade partner or pay someone else $3-4M without giving up a prospect.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 11, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions  

But don't you think if someone with equivalent production

was out there for “free” JD would have taken it? Give the guy at least a little credit.

People get all indignant about Lowell because he’s a Red Sox and he’s overrated. Which are both true. But JD isn’t trading for Mike Lowell as an overrated player. He’s trading a marginal prospect with about zero trade value for a guy that the Red Sox will pay 75-80% of his salary. JD wasn’t enamored by that 2007 World Series MVP, I can promise you that.

Go Rice Owls!

by JBImaknee on Dec 11, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Not one DH type has signed yet

I posted a Cashman quote from the Winter Meetings yesterday where he talks about how the market is lousy with DHs begging for jobs. Neither you nor I know if anyone decent will fall to 3-4mm, but I wouldn’t rule it out. I just don’t see what the harm is in waiting and seeing what price range is established.

by LiamP on Dec 11, 2009 10:01 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

And I think all the media whores are parroting Cashman to the nth degree

“Swing a dead cat, hit an All Star level DH!”

Who out there is an established, track record type that you would want to hang your hat on that is willing to sign cheap? We don’t know, and there is some satisfaction in certainty.

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.

by Rodney on Dec 11, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Except noone's said anything about "all-star" level

And Cashman happens to be right.

Again, I have no idea who’s willing to sign for cheap, but i’d like to stick around and find out.

by LiamP on Dec 11, 2009 10:21 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I think the Rangers just like Lowell

they value veteran clubhouseyness a bit more than I do.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 11, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Does he have more than

say Thome or Dye? I don’t think so. Can you get those guys for 3M? No, but there is a chance their price will be down considerably much like there were bargains last winter. All of the better bats are still out there, and hopefully it takes a long time for some of these guys to find jobs, so long in fact, that our new ownership is a little more in place :)

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Dec 11, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Well if you're talking about being a good veteran and all

I think Lowell has the better reputation than either of those guys in being a great clubhouse guy. It sounds like he doesn’t even want to leave Boston but isn’t saying anything because he doesn’t want to stand in the way of a trade. How many players do you know that would do that?

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 11, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

fwiw

reputation does not = truth

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 12, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Beat me to it

Guy is RENOWNED for his “intangibles.”

I think that is the missing piece of the puzzle, sadly.

Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...

Hi, Keith. Is this the year Edinson Volquez finally wins RoY?

by Brian Thomas on Dec 11, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Fresh from the Snow Monkey's mouth
Team president Nolan Ryan is optimistic that something can get done and thinks Lowell would bring a strong veteran presence to the clubhouse. “It would bring a high-character player into the lineup at DH and backup first,” he said. “There would be a lot of benefit to that. When you have a young ballclub like we have, when you can get an individual of that character and that status, it definitely has an impact on your ballclub.”

by shroomer on Dec 11, 2009 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Ah

This move must be to offset the crippling loss of Kevin Millwood’s clubhouse leadership.

I failed my LSB ethics test.

"WHAT A SHITLOAD OF FUCK" - LL's "Poochie" on Rich Harden signing with Texas over Seattle

by LSJ on Dec 11, 2009 6:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Millwood, Vizquel, and Byrd

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 11, 2009 7:25 PM CST up reply actions  

With all the "Sky is falling" posts around here recently

Thank you for remaining levelheaded

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 11, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I hardly think my post

qualified as sky is falling, but I agree with your comment.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 11, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

maxram

its the trading low on a guy that bothers me

we should be the ones trading FOR guys like maxram, not trading them away

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 12, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

lowell types

105 ops+ players are not impossible to find.

matt stairs has a 111 ops+ the last 5 years fwiw

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 12, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Here the the problem

While “standard for being a bat, only a bat” is high, Lowell is higher than anyone else the Rangers have. And they aren’t free around the industry. That is nonsense.

Obviously Nick Johnson > Mike Lowell. Jim Thome > Mike Lowell. Heck, Vlad is probably > Mike Lowell. But those guys are not “free” – maybe they are in terms of prospects (which they have), but they aren’t in terms of the commodity the Rangers actually lack.

But Mike Lowell > Hank Blalock, who was our “only a bat” last year.

In a vacuum, yeah – you don’t want Lowell as your DH. But in reality – which people seem so blind to, or just refuse to accept – the Rangers aren’t spending the money for Nick Johnson or Jim Thome. The option is Lowell or some ramshackle combination of Murphy, or Boggs, and whatever 4th or 5th OF you have lying around at DH.

So yeah, it’d be great if the Rangers could sign Nick Johnson. It’d have been great if the Rangers could have signed Harden without dumping Millwood. It’d have been great if the Rangers could have traded for Victor Martinez. It’d be great if they could sign Matt Holliday and hell, Jason Bay too. Whatever.

The point of running a ballclub is to make marginal improvements where you can.

Go Rice Owls!

by JBImaknee on Dec 11, 2009 9:39 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

I don't think Vald > Lowell.

But, all three are in a different price range than Lowell, very likely. The question mark in all of this is Glaus.

I would prefer to overspend on Thome than trade Max, cause you just never know with a pure hitter like Max. But, I still think the odds favor a solid year from Lowell over a breakout ML season from Max within the next few years. I wouldn’t have said that before the 2009 season, of course.

Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.

by rooster on Dec 11, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Max

I’m not sure I would call him a pure hitter. He’s more of a pure slugger. His power has returned this winter, but he continues to struggle with contact, and his BA is low. Guys like that usually see their walk rate dip in the higher levels (which it has), and that makes their OPS much more dependent on power.

I’ve said this before, but for everyone who points to Jack Cust when projecting Max Ram, I point to Victor Diaz.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 11, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I would rather...

the Rangers give Glaus 3 mil and keep MaxRam.

That said, I don’t think it’s a huge mistake, just a move that I wouldn’t make.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Dec 11, 2009 9:39 AM CST reply actions  

The potential for upside in this deal is very small

Exactly why the hell are we paying $ 3 million AND giving up a top 10 prospect?

The potential for downside (Lowell is in decline with questionable health and costing team strapped for cash $ 3 million plus Max might have a good career) is much higher than any upside.

JD must have a lot of faith that Max is never going to be a productive player in The Show.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 11, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

"a top 10 prospect"

in what, Oklahoma City?

I think it is reasonable to assume that if MaxRam didn’t have a rebound year his 40 man roster spot would increasingly be in jeopardy as the season went on. They already have two other catchers and are going to have to add another one. As Sheehann points out, “the standard for being a bat, only a bat” is very high. MaxRam needs to do a lot more to reach that standard than Lowell does

Yeah, the downside to Lowell is large. But that downside isn’t fixed, rather I think the risk really is that he’ll just break down by the end of the year – he isn’t Harden who may just fall apart on April 24th. This is mitigated somewhat by two things: 1) he’ll be DHing mostly, so that helps draw out his useful timespan, and 2) Smoak and/or Moreland will be moving up through the system and may be ready by August or September if Lowell is kaput. They aren’t ready now, but Lowell is a very nice bridge to there.

Go Rice Owls!

by JBImaknee on Dec 11, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

I just read somewhere (one of the lists linked in here)

that Max was our # 8 prospect.

I don’t think he’ll be a catcher in The Show but he’s somebody who could become a productive DH.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 11, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

It was THT

You can pretty much discount it if you would simply read the commentary. It is very apparent the ranker does not know what he is talking about.

"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto

by Michael Cave on Dec 11, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Which specific rankings did they have wrong?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 11, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Since when do you give a shit about prospect ranks?

Only when you can try to shoehorn it into your argument?

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 11, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I acknowledge the possibility of prospects being

able to contribute in The Show when they dominate AA ball and then I look at their age.

I don’t know what Max Ramirez is just yet but I have never called him a hopeless case that would never make it in The Show. He hit too well in AA ball to say that.

Are those crickets coming from Michael “I played ball for a Texas JUCO and you didn’t” Cave?

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 11, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I am not Michael Cave

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 11, 2009 5:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Two answers one post, Einstein.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 11, 2009 5:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I am not Einstein either

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 11, 2009 6:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought you were a porn star?

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.

by Rodney on Dec 11, 2009 6:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Someone pays attention around here

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 11, 2009 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

get your facts straight if your going to attack people

lol

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 12, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Max will fall into the 11-15 range if he is lucky.

The problem is that his foot work did not really improve last year. Combine that with his injury woes, questions about him having a slightly “long” swing, the thoughts that me might be more of a “bad” ball hitter, now being 26 next year, being to short for the MLB at 1B, and not athletic enough to play in the OF.

That leaves you with a DH/C that has issues with is bat at higher levels.

JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook

by laxtonto on Dec 11, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions  

He won't be 26 at any point in the season next year

He turned 25 7 weeks ago.

He lost a year to injury, but before that was relatively age appropriate for his competition.

And point me to this “long swing” theory you are referring to, because that’s news to me.

Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...

Hi, Keith. Is this the year Edinson Volquez finally wins RoY?

by Brian Thomas on Dec 11, 2009 5:30 PM CST up reply actions  

ok so hes a top 15 guy in a top 3 farm system

still worth taking a shot and keeping him

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Dec 12, 2009 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Hes out of options after this season

The likelihood of him sticking around with this team after this season was not high. Lowell addresses a need for us THIS year. You can’t hold onto all your prospects forever

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 12, 2009 6:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with your first part there

You gotta think, Salty, Teagarden, the catcher we sign (Buck?), MaxRam = 4 catchers on the 40 man. I don’t think JD wants to tie up 4 spots on the 40 man at the C position so he’s clearing one to get the RH bat paid for…

by Droopydave on Dec 11, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

There are two huge points that Sheehan is missing

The Rangers have zero depth behind Young at 3B. Zero. Unless this team is prepared to plug a guy like Inglett or Whittleman in there for however long, it pays to have a backup plan. Also, it didn’t take too long for people to forget that in 2008 Young’s bat was an area of weakness. It might not hurt being able to rest him in the field from time to time.

Also, this team desparately needed a RH bat. I would have preferred Jermaine Dye, who I still think is this year’s Bobby Abreu, and who is a legit clean up hitter as opposed to a decent six hole hitter. As for Thome and Vlad, I think JD places a premium on having 13-14 hitters on the roster who can all play in the field. It gives Wash more flexibility. I don’t completely agree with that mentality, but some may argue JD is a wiser man than I.

Ultimately, in Lowell, we have a guy who can legitimately hit lefties and spell Young at 3B and Davis at 1B, and we are getting him for $3M or less. The cost of Max Ramirez is the cost of having Tom Hicks for an owner.

Spit on him next time you see him.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 11, 2009 9:58 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

But Lowell (who Sheehan said might be the slowest baseball player in The Show) has something like 4 career games in the minors

at 1B and has very limited experience at DH.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 11, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Is it that hard

For a Gold Glove 3B to learn how to play first? Mark Teixeira and Chris Davis both seemed to learn on the fly pretty well.

As for experience at DH, I’m not sure that matters much either.

FWIW, I’m about 50-50 on this trade- I can see the rationale behind it, but like you, Adam, and others, there seem to be a number of equivalent (or better) bats who can play 1b/3b that are still out there on the market, and who should be signable for under $5 million.

"Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."

by RCCook on Dec 11, 2009 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Paging DJC

OMFG he’s never played first base in The Tard Show!

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.

by Rodney on Dec 11, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

The transition from 3B to 1B should be relatively easy but Lowell

is now a statue and you don’t want him in the field.

Taking Lowell off Boston’s hands and agreeing to kick in $ 3 million should be enough but agreeing to also throw in Max Ramirez!?

That’s fucking stupid unless you absolutely know Max won’t hit in The Show.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 11, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

from 2006-2008

Lowell was quite good at 3B with very high UZR and UZR/150s. Last year, he was bothered by hip problems and his UZR suffered badly for it. If he has recovered fully from hip surgery, I don’t see how he wouldn’t improve to be at least a league avg defender which is not that bad.

The thing about Max is, he has 1 option left and he doesn’t seem like the type of player that Boston will likely keep around. I would think there would be a chance to get Max back through a waiver claim. Boston has Martinez and Varitek still at catcher. Also, Mauer may hit the market next year and the Yanks and Red Sox are going to be his main suitors.

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Dec 11, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Actually his hip surgery has about 12 months

of total recovery time to achieve being back to “normal”. I don’t think he will be the GG caliber defender he has been in the past, just because of age, but he will most likely be as good or better than Young at 3B.

JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook

by laxtonto on Dec 11, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions  

How many folks

from any other IF position have ever had problems picking up 1B in The Show in the history of MLB? .1% maybe?

"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland

by DJCahill on Dec 11, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

depends how you define that

if “picking up” means not completely floundering but allowing skipping throws to get by and having terrible range, then i agree with you

by BuckyB on Dec 11, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Guys from other IF positions

tend to have much better range than other 1B. Look at all the failed 3B who are playing excellent defense at 1B like Teixeira, Davis, and tons of others.

1B defense is the position that requires the least skill. Even LF you need some wheels to play at an average level.

"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland

by DJCahill on Dec 12, 2009 5:24 AM CST up reply actions  

And Pooholes weighs 300 pounds

Your point?

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.

by Rodney on Dec 12, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

They put Max at 1st for a few games

I’m willing to bet Lowell can handle it

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 11, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Josey

unlike others around here, I give your (original) ideas and statements a lot of respect. That said, what the hell is DH experience? I think Mike Lowell will have the veteran savvy he needs to stay focused on his ABs when he’s not playing in the field.

And as others have said below, the transition from 3B to 1B rarely proves difficult for players.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 11, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Clark

Sometimes it takes a while to make the transition. Lowell should be able to do it but it’s once again, demanding a player or pitcher to do something he’s never done before.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 11, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

He's never hit before?

Every day you top yourself. The lengths you’re willing to go to are simply amazing.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 11, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm sounding like a broken record here...

but Glaus is a RH bat who can play 3B/1B too.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Dec 11, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Glaus would interest me

much more than Lowell (just not sure of the health).

No doubt he was a roider but he’s an experienced clean-up hitter that beats the living shit out of LH pitching and he should come cheap this year.

Somebody tell Rodney he’s obsessing again.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 11, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Anyone care to guess how much

Lowell will/would be hurt by playing in Arlington and not Fenway?

|Space for Rent|

by RangerMad on Dec 11, 2009 12:12 PM CST reply actions  

he's a dead pull hitter

He will suffer quite a bit.

Lookie here.

Ranger fans say "NO! NO!" to Go Go.
Keep Reinsdorf's chub from ruining my club.

by tricer on Dec 11, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Damn that's fugly

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.

by Rodney on Dec 11, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Combined with

932 OPS at home
713 OPS on the road

by BuckyB on Dec 11, 2009 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Christ

Might as well go get Garret Atkins then.

I failed my LSB ethics test.

"WHAT A SHITLOAD OF FUCK" - LL's "Poochie" on Rich Harden signing with Texas over Seattle

by LSJ on Dec 11, 2009 6:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Lowell

In four years with Boston, two years he hit better at home and two years he hit better on the road.

by Randy Richardson on Dec 11, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions  

My only concern

is why not wait until the non tender deadline, which is only in a couple of days?

What if Garrett Atkins gets non tendered, or Ryan Garko? At least see what those guys might get in the market before doing this deal…

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 11, 2009 1:52 PM CST reply actions  

The deal hasn't been completed yet

Maybe thats what we are waiting on

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 11, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah me too

he made 7m last year. And he’s coming off a pretty bad year. Joe Crede signed a 1 yr, 2.5M deal with the Twins last year in a similar situation (albeit with a greater health risk). Atkins could sign for something in the 4-5M range. If the team stops screwing with the idea of signing Oliver at something close to 3M and backs out of the Lowell deal, they would theoretically have enough money to sign Atkins.

The issue is that he probably wants to land a starting job and there are a few of them out there, so he may not be willing to come to TX in a part time capacity.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 11, 2009 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

looking at his defensive metrics

he’s just not a very good defender…there’s no other way to say it. Of the teams looking for 3B, I doubt the Mariners give him a serious look because they obviously place a premium on defense. And Pedro Feliz just got 4.5 from Houston to be their starter.

I really like Atkins at $4M much more than Lowell at $3M+Max Ram. Over his last three years (including last year’s dud) he sported an OPS of .856 against LHP, which is about where Lowell is. We lose a little in defensive value, grit and world series rings, however.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 11, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

another edit

his numbers away from Coors aren’t too strong. He could end up being another $2.5M guy.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 11, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

At first

I was not sure how I feel about this. I didnt like seeing Max go, but I too had soured on him as a prospect. In an ideal world we’d be able to keep him and just about anyone else who has a sliver of chance of becoming something special. But to be able to parlay him into a tangible benefit over what we had last year, I think it’s a solid move. Plus, like the Millwood trade, I think it’s unfair to judge JD until all the chess pieces have been played. Im not saying we will turn around and flip Lowell, but Im at least willing to give him some benefit of the doubt until we can see the off-season holistically.

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Dec 11, 2009 2:26 PM CST reply actions  

Heyman calls Lowell a loser

Well… sort of.

And while Texas people were pleased to be getting a very smart guy with a nice personality in Lowell (as opposed to original target Milton Bradley), people who communicate often with the Red Sox front office painted Lowell in another light after the deal was agreed to — that of an occasionally disgruntled clubhouse guy (that’s certainly not the Lowell I remember more than a decade ago coming up with the Yankees)

And how did the Rangers not make the winners list.

Winners and losers from relatively uneventful winter meetings

|Space for Rent|

by RangerMad on Dec 11, 2009 3:23 PM CST reply actions  

Because the deals weren't that good.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 11, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Team better or worse because of the Harden/Ray/Snyder acquisitions?

Lost Millwood, gained ~$1.5M in salary space (a guess)

What’s your take, bottom line, is the team better or worse than it was before those 3 players were acquired?

by BuckyB on Dec 11, 2009 6:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Is the team better as in do

I think these deals are going move their win total up significantly from 87?

Hell no. We needed an on base machine that tortures LH pitching and we got a hitter with league average on base skills who is old, in decline and still recovering from hip surgery…AND we gave up Max Ramirez to do so!!! What a dumb fucking trade.

We’re right where we were last year and if Harden & Lowell aren’t healthy (which has been their history) we’ve taken a step or two backwards. There are too many moving parts required for these deals to help the Rangers or be considered good deals.

I knew Max was a good power hitter but had no idea he had a lifetime .398 OBP in the minors.

What the fuck is JD doing here?

Helping out a team they’re potentially competing with for the Wild Card AND giving up a prospect with those kind of on base skills?

A really dumb move that may ultimately seal JD’s fate if Max becomes a good major league hitter.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 12, 2009 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

I had toast for breakfast.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Dec 12, 2009 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Did you put poinsettias on the table?

LOL!

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 12, 2009 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

LOL!!!!!!!

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Dec 12, 2009 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

You had no idea Max had a .398 OBP in the minors.

You have no business talking about prospects you know so little about.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 12, 2009 8:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Is the team better with Harden/Ray/Snyder - Millwood?

even if it’s marginal, are they? I’m curious, not trying to call you out. I’m not interested in the schtick above

by BuckyB on Dec 12, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe the ceiling without these moves

ws 93 wins, with the moves it could be 97 wins.

|Space for Rent|

by RangerMad on Dec 12, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Let's separate the moves ...

If Harden can stay completely healthy and pitch 175 IPs and if Ray can stay healthy and replace what CJ gave us last year, it was a damn good move.

The Lowell move isn’t very good and has a chance to be terrible if Max has a productive career.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 12, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

The Lowell/Ramirez trade is for 2010

The type of move you criticize JD for not making back in 2005(?).

|Space for Rent|

by RangerMad on Dec 12, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Not at all, in fact if Max has a productive

career in The Show this trade could be very similar to the AG trade to San Diego.

It won’t be that historically bad but we’ve traded the potential major league career of Max Ramirez for one year of an in decline 36 year old with league average OBP skills.

It’s a shortsighted, win now, let’s hope this minor leaguer can’t play kind of trade and we aren’t receiving very much in return which is what happened in 2005.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 12, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I love how you keep dancing around the issue... you'd answer if it were favorable to your schtick

you just can’t admit that by acquiring snyder/ray/harden, JD made the team better without being able to spend a cent

by BuckyB on Dec 12, 2009 9:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Lowell had a OBP of over 360 against LHP last year

So he gets on base against them just fine. He also slugs pretty well against them. He fits what we need if we use him properly.

Plus his veteran presence in the clubhouse will be a great addition considering who we lost this winter. Millwood, Byrd, and Vizquel leaving leaves the clubhouse very young and without any winning experience. Lowell replaces all that.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 12, 2009 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Red Sox front office

a bunch of Ivy League douchebags class acts.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 11, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

he also listed the Diamondbacks as a winner

it looks like the Heyman is broken.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 11, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey...huh?

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.

by Rodney on Dec 11, 2009 6:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Heyman

Did anyone else catch this?

Mike Lowell: His previously pristine reputation took a small hit when Boston had to pay $9 million of the $12 million remaining on his contract to be rid of him in a deal that’s likely to be finalized next week (they are just checking Lowell’s surgically repaired hip) for good-hitting prospect Max Ramirez, whose poor work habits annoyed his bosses.

Is there something about Ramirez we haven’t heard? Seems like Heyman’s insinuating a possible reason the Rangers are willing to give up on Ramirez.

"Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."

by RCCook on Dec 11, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions  

There's been several revelations in articles recently...

… that i’m not sure whether to take as fact or not

-Gilbert not being thrilled with the Millwood and Harden moves
-Lowell being a grump in the clubhouse contrary to everything we were hearing
-And now Max Ramirez has poor work habits

by octoberty on Dec 11, 2009 6:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I dunno

Maybe this is why the Rangers are willing to deal Max. We know they don’t like guys with poor attitudes or work habits (although they did trade for Danny Gutierrez, so…)

I failed my LSB ethics test.

"WHAT A SHITLOAD OF FUCK" - LL's "Poochie" on Rich Harden signing with Texas over Seattle

by LSJ on Dec 11, 2009 7:05 PM CST up reply actions  

sorry

I guess i always pronounced it like hymen in my head…

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 12, 2009 12:19 AM CST up reply actions  

As do I

lol

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.

by Rodney on Dec 12, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

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