Saturday morning Rangers stuff
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 12, 2009 10:47 AM CST
Email
PrintSo we are continuing to get news and reactions from the recent Rangers moves...
Anthony Andro writes that Rich Harden has set a goal of pitching 200 innings in 2010, and thinks his conditioning and workout program will allow him to do that.
Richard Durrett has video up with his interviews with Jon Daniels and Rich Harden at the ESPN Dallas blog.
T.R. Sullivan writes that the Rangers are waiting to see if John Buck or Dioner Navarro get non-tendered, and will probably pursue either or both of them if they hit the market.
Nolan Ryan has some comments about the value of having a character guy like Mike Lowell in the clubhouse, as Texas and Boston continue to work towards finalizing the Lowell for Max Ramirez trade. Also, the Rangers have apparently offered Esteban German a contract, and he'll either sign that or be non-tendered today.
Jennifer Floyd Engel has praise for the work the front office is doing under very difficult financial circumstances, and talks about the problems involved with this ongoing ownership mess.
203 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
We are aboot to win the World Series, eh
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
I would be cool with John Buck as a backup.
I think Luke French has a lot of potential. TORP potential.-Dstar
Thanks Jennifer, for that very insightful piece.
Not.
by TooLegitToQuit on Dec 12, 2009 11:01 AM CST via mobile reply actions
gosh
with Atkins out there and probably available for around $3-4M, this team has a tough case to make for the Lowell trade.
I know that sometimes the Blalocks and Wilkersons of the world never bounce back, but this guy just seems like a great low risk buy.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I'd rather have Lowell than Atkins personally
Granted, it took MaxRam to get Lowell.
If only we had another 10 million to work with….
the preceding post was a great success.
Yeah, I had that same thought
Except Harden is still dreamier.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
Kevin Correia
Since his name came up this year… Possible non-tender and the road numbers are strong.
Love to have him, have to think someone will outbid.
http://twitter.com/Evan_P_Grant/status/6582728875
RT: @mlbtraderumors Possible Non-Tenders To Watch http://bit.ly/6FYQPx Interesting names for #Rangers: Correia, Navarro, Buck
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Dec 12, 2009 11:24 AM CST reply actions
He shut down the Rangers last year iirc
I think Luke French has a lot of potential. TORP potential.-Dstar
He shut down the Rangers last year iirc
I think Luke French has a lot of potential. TORP potential.-Dstar
Cha-Seung Baek and Taylor Buchholz shut down better Rangers offenses in single games
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
you mean some team has worse ownership than the Rangers do?
But yeah, the Padres are a disaster. There is no reason they should cut Correia over a couple of million dollars. I’d trade them some mid-level prospect to get his rights.
Go Rice Owls!
You've got to think there's some guy we could ship them for Correia that they'd take and we'd never miss
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
Neil Ramirez?
Realized I posted this reply to you in the wrong spot. My bad..
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 12, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
I'd probably do that deal on the Rangers side, he's been passed by virtually every pitching prospect of consequence
The Pads might still like the upside and want to roll the dice on a change of scenery. And that’s a better return than just non-tendering Correia.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
My understanding is that it'd be just like any of our arb-eligible players
Tender him a contract and then go to arbitration if we don’t get a deal worked out.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
Are the Padres in a Rangers situation or something, weird..
He put together a solid season. At least proved hes capable of eating up some innings even if the numbers fall off a bit.
the preceding post was a great success.
The Padres have been being bought
for about a year now. Their last owner, who wasn’t exactly burning the checkbook himself, got a divorce, and his wife won half the team in the settlement. So obviously they had to sell.
Jeff Moorad, the former agent (Manny Ramirez’s, iirc), who was partial owner of the DBacks, led a group to buy the Padres last offseason. That is why they let Hoffman go, traded Peavy three or four times or whatever it was without his consent. For whatever reason, the team’s finances have remained frozen. They’re an absolute disaster. Living in San Diego makes me appreciate the Rangers – which is probably why I’m more tolerant of Hicks than most others are.
Go Rice Owls!
Pitcher Kevin Correia has declined the Padres’ final contract offer and been told he’s going to be non-tendered by the Saturday deadline.
http://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/6506102513
And yesterday…
According to a source with knowledge of the situation, the Padres are more likely to trade Correia if they can’t reach a deal with him before the deadline.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Dec 12, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
that makes more sense
he only made 1.1M last year and probably won’t make more than 3 or so this year…I think there are teams out there who will be willing to pay that.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Who knows if we even have that much ><
Not that I want to get in some trade bid war over the guy.
the preceding post was a great success.
I don't think we touch this guy
he benefitted heavily from playing in petco and we have about five guys in our org who could probably put up similar numbers to what he’d do in the AL…
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Agreed
I was going to bring him up the other day, but after looking at his numbers…ehhh.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
What?
Road:
90.1 IP
99 H
44 R
42 ER
6 HR
24 BB
72 K
4.18 ERA
Home:
107.2 IP
95 H
48 R
44 ER
11 HR
40 BB
70 K
3.68 ERA
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Dec 12, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
Comparing his home.away splits
worth noting about his away stats is his BAbip is a little higher, but his K/BB & HR rates were better on the road. I’d be very interested for under $2 mil. This is the type of guy that would be a great hedge against a Harden DL stint or the young guys struggling, Looks like he could be a cheap innings eater.
Correa would make an effective replacement for McCarthy
If someone would trade us something useful for B-Mac.
Ranger fans say "NO! NO!" to Go Go.
Keep Reinsdorf's chub from ruining my club.
Right now, he would probably slot into our rotation
into the 3 or 4 spot. The 3 spot is you have doubts about Hunter or the 4 spot if you’re confident Hunter is for real. Until Holland or one of the others actually shows consistency, Correia has to rank ahead of them.
he would make
more than bmac this year (prob by about 1.5-3M), and that would be an issue.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
is he related to Edwin?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
by Cecilio's Guante on Dec 12, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
How is Buck defensively? anyone know?
-He can get an extra base hit or two at least.. with a .300 obp. Pickings are obviously slim though, hes interesting.
-Harden said the right things but everyone always does. Well, most people.
-Meh at Atkins. Though I say not to rely on home/road splits.. still can’t help but observe is sub 700 road ops since his big 2006. I suppose if Lowell fell through, he could be an actual 1b/3b backup and DH some strictly vs lefties while we get a better option to DH most of the time, but I assume someone out there is desperate enough to promise him more ABs.
And finally, if my videogame simulation is an accurate prediction, MY should not face Hammy in MMA.
the preceding post was a great success.
KINSSSSLLLER KINSSSLER
I LOVE YOU KINSLER, I LOVE YOU.
KINSSSLER KINSSLER
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
And he's a high school teacher in Queens
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 12, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
have you watched any of the episodes yet
I find it to be one of the more addicting and fascinating reality shows I’ve ever seen.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Nope but with all this talk
I think i’ll waste a day, and just watch them online.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
One of my buddies said it might be the greatest tv show he's watched in a while
It’s such a mesmerizing trainwreck he can’t stop watching.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
Neil Ramirez?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 12, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
While I saw that you posted this in the wrong place, the Freudian slip is pretty funny
NeilRam has become quite the trainwreck.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
wait...what show is it
the fact that im 24 and dont know that while youll do is creepy…
Fuck Mike Estabrook
The worst show I've ever seen
while simultaneously been the best.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott
by ReallyCreativeScreenName on Dec 13, 2009 2:04 AM CST up reply actions
*being
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott
by ReallyCreativeScreenName on Dec 13, 2009 2:04 AM CST up reply actions
that is absolutely mesmerizing...
"The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic" - Charles Darwin, you know who he is...
by 8legs2fangs on Dec 12, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
what is this?
Is that a chick he just jawed?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
by Cecilio's Guante on Dec 12, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
it is a clip
from an upcoming episode of Jersey Shore that has created a lot of internet buzz/fury.
apparently people still aren’t okay with dudes hitting chicks. probably the same people who like sarah palin.
kidding.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
p.s.
i’m turning the game off now and going out, but I couldn’t resist a couple more.
linked since theres enough gifs/images in a morning thread now heh.
infinite loop of pain, short bit, dirk!
the preceding post was a great success.
super special? nothing heh
But to explain more explicitly, I was playing the UFC game on the xbox 360 this morning and did some create a characters of a couple local sports figures. The clip is my fake hamilton knocking out my fake michael young.
Iffy resemblance to begin with in HD video, yet alone in a tiny .gif, but he does have a bunch of tattoos anyway =p
Only takes me like 10 minutes to go from capturing something to having a .gif online so I don’t always reserve it for awesome things heh.
the preceding post was a great success.
Navarro > Buck
"The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic" - Charles Darwin, you know who he is...
German
Howuch did German make last year? From Cots…
1 year/$1.2M (2009)
re-signed by Kansas City 12/12/08 (avoided arbitration)
$0.1M in performance bonuses
DFA by Kansas City 2/28/09, released 3/9/09 (due 30 days’ pay)
signed by Chicago Cubs as a free agent 3/13/09 (minor-league contract, $0.75M in majors)
released by Cubs 4/4/09
signed as a free agent by Texas 4/8/09 (minor-league contract)
contract purchased by Texas 8/5/09
Yes, he signed a $1.2M deal with KC. But, why does Cots says “(due 30 days’ pay)”?
I can’t see the Rangers offering him anything close to $1M.
|Space for Rent|
i read
we offered him 600k this year.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
per SI
Right-hander Blaine Boyer got $750,000 in an agreement announced by the Diamondbacks. Players agreeing to deals that were not announced were Atlanta outfielder Matt Diaz ($2.55 million), Pittsburgh infielder Ronny Cedeno ($1,125,000) and Texas infielder Esteban German ($600,000 in majors, $200,000 in minors).
A sp[it contract is fine.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/wires/12/11/2010.ap.bbo.baseball.rdp.0817/
|Space for Rent|
Hmm, so theoretically the non-tendered players...
…should be free by now, right? Does anyone know where we can find a list of everyone who’s been let loose? There were definitely some rumored names I’d be interested in, but I don’t know if they actually got released. Kinslerhomer, or anyone else, do you want to create a fanpost about it?
I know players like Dioner Navarro, DJ Carrasco (RP), Wang, Garko, Atkins, and maybe even Conor Jackson (1B-AZ) were rumored to be let loose, but I can’t find a definitive list.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Lowell
I keep hoping this deals falls through. Not excited about Mike Lowell – at all.
I'm glad JD showed the patience to wait for the non-tenders
I’m hoping there are more than expected, and JD can save money & avoid giving up maxram
I'll bet its mostly an MLB slowdown
They take some time to approve the deals in which one side is giving a ton of money to another.
What do voluntary mean?
i don't think that's what is happening
i could obviously be wrong, but i don’t think jd is slow rolling this process to wait for the non tenders, I think it is just taking a long time to process at the mlb level because of all the financial ramifications.
at this point I think the only reason this trade falls through is if the teams see something they don’t like in the medical records, and I sort of think that would have happened already if it was going to. That Nolan went ahead and went public with his thoughts on Lowell makes me think this thing is pretty close to official.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I fear you're correct
that the Lowell deal is about done. Damn I wish this team had some money to spend. I’m tired of the retread righty..Sosa, Ajones, and now Lowell.
Its possible it will be the same
but just looking at the surface you can say Lowell isn’t in the same grouping as those others right now. He had a legitimately useful year last year, something you can’t say about Sosa or Andruw the year before we got them.
What do voluntary mean?
So why is Boston so
eager to give up Lowell?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Because they have a mostly unlimited budget
and someone who is only a DH already on the roster.
Unless you think they were going to unload Ortiz this off season.
Its not a world beater of a deal, but its not a horrible one either, unless MaxRam does something at the MLB level which is far from given.
What do voluntary mean?
If they have an unlimited budget...
…then they’d probably want to keep Lowell around until spring training in case someone gets hurt, since they could just release him then or move him then.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 12, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
But by allowing Boston to push Lowell off on us
we also give them the chance to get a younger, healthier 3B and make their team better.
There is no reason whatsoever we should also be giving them a prospect like Max Ramirez (minor league career obp .398!!!) on top of what we’re doing now.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
MaxRam's minor league OBP is irrelevant
You’re withholding judgment on his skills until he contributes meaningfully in The Show. Remember?
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
Why do YOU say MaxRam's minor league OBP
is irrelevant?
Most everybody else associated with the Great Game think it is THE number one thing to look for in determining whether or not a player can make it in The Show (and I happen to agree).
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
You're the one who effectively stated that, remember?
I guess I’ve missed all those contributions Max
made to the big league club after he was acquired.
His biggest accomplishment to date is helping give the minor league system depth but he’s 25 years old now and hasn’t done a thing in The Show.
When he contributes meaningfully in The Show, we can give JD credit for a good trade but to this point it was a waste of $ 6 million by a team on a small market payroll.
"Dying ain’t hard. It’s living that’s hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." – Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
by Josey Wales on Dec 8, 2009 11:43 AM PST
Until he makes actual contributions to the big league club, the only thing a minor league prospect can be credited with is providing depth in the farm system.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
I agree with that but that doesn't mean
somebody like Martin Perez or Justin Smoak are worthless assets to have in an organization.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
So, let me get this straight
A top prospect has some value to an organization. But not enough to credit the GM for acquiring him. But if the GM trades him, that’s a bad move.
Summary: it is a bad idea for the GM to either trade a veteran for a prospect or trade a prospect for a veteran.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
by WestTxAg06 on Dec 12, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Wrong.
I value actual major league talent more than potential major league talent.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Mike Lowell is actual major league talent who posted a league OBP last year and you agree OBP is a very important stat
Max Ramirez is just potential major league talent.
Thus, by your logic, Mike Lowell has more value than Max Ramirez and this actually is a good trade.
Thank you.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
by WestTxAg06 on Dec 12, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
The question is
Is MaxRam a legitimate player or is he Jason Botts? We have this year to find out IIRC because he should be out of options after this year. Due to the injury we don’t know if he can hit at AAA yet. I’m just not sure MaxRam is going to hit enough at the MLB level to be a DH, and if he doesn’t do that I’m not sure he has a place in the MLB as anything.
I’m worried about his contact rate. Before I looked it up I had no clue that their numbers compared to number of ABs are strikingly similar.
I’m just not sure we are giving up anything that is likely to be something in the majors for someone who could be a useful piece to our team next year.
What do voluntary mean?
Considering your constant criticism of the Rangers signing of Kenny Lofton
I find this Max Ramirez comment to be very amusing.
Two things in play here...
The Lofton Signing
The Lofton Trade
The Lofton Signing – It was bad because it was a waste of $ 6 million and something a team with a small market payroll couldn’t afford. It was beyond stupid to believe Kenny Lofton was going to make the 2007 team better because 40 year old CF’s don’t make teams like that better.
The Lofton Trade -This place and NMLR went nuts over the Lofton Trade because the team picked up a prospect like Max Ramirez. I withheld praise for JD until we found out what kind of hitter Max was in The Show.
I never threw Max under the bus because I didn’t know what he was going to be in The Show but a .398 OBP in the minor leagues is an eye-opener and will get you on my radar.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
You withheld praise for JD until finding out what kind of hitter Max is in The Show
But that sure doesn’t stop you from criticizing JD for planning to trade Max, who still hasn’t accomplished a thing in The Show.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
by WestTxAg06 on Dec 12, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm criticizing
JD because he is getting his ass kicked in this deal.
He’s helping an opponent we competed with directly last year (and possibly in 2010 and beyond) in the Wild Card get better and he’s giving up a prospect with a career obp of .398 for one year of a 36 year old in decline hitter with a bad hip who won’t hit any higher than 6th in a decent line-up.
It’s a terrible trade of an organization asset.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
That 36 year-old in decline hitter with a bad hip who won't hit any higher than 6th in a decent line-up
Will post a better OBP for us in 2010 than either Hank Blalock or Andruw Jones posted at the DH slot in 2009.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
There are a lot of those kinds of players available
that won’t cost you $ 3 million, a prospect with a minor league career obp of .398 not to mention helping a direct competitor get better.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Yes, but Mike Lowell is an actual major league talent while Max Ramirez is just a potential major league talent
Therefore, there’s not much of a cost associated with the trade. You just said so yourself.
The “help a direct competitor” argument doesn’t hold water, because unless you ONLY make trades with the NL, which isn’t practical, you’re always going to be “helping” someone who is a direct competitor or who has the potential to be one.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
That's a dumb premise and not what I said at all.
Just because I value major league talent over minor league talent doesn’t mean minor leaguers hold no value at all.
The “helping a direct competitor” argument does more than hold water. Making a trade with the KC Royals is different than making a trade with the Boston Red Sox.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
So you're saying, either
a) BoSox are going to spend the $3M saved on a player that is going to help them be better than us this season, AND they would not have been able to afford that $3M player without this trade
or
b) Max Ramirez is going to help BoSox win this year
Reeeeeeeach
I don't know what kind of major league
player Max Ramirez is going to be.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Then how can you value him in a trade versus someone who is known to be a better DH than the pile of crap we had in Blalock and Jones last year?
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
The fact that someon...
…is better than the pile of crap we had at DH last season doesn’t make that person a good player, a good DH, or worth trading for.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 12, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
Adam
What do you think about the Lowell trade after having a couple of days to digest?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
To what degree
A meh trade?
A mildly bad trade?
A really bad trade?
A historically bad trade?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Well, fair enough, because what we saw at DH last year was an abomination
But the comment was made yesterday by JW that a Lowell trade doesn’t take us closer to the playoffs. I dispute that, because ceteris paribus, upgrading from Blalock/Jones to Lowell at DH makes us a better team.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
What you're gaining in OBP
you’re losing in slugging % plus the offense of Marlon Byrd has not been replaced.
This Thing, currently constructed, should not be considered a 94+ win team and that’s usually what it takes to win the division or make it via the Wild Card.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Setting aside the matter that you changed the subject
[Ceteris paribus means everything else equal (i.e. ignore the other hitters and just look at DH), but I digress]
You don’t think the slightly better than average offense of Marlon (106 OPS+) can be replaced by Borbon and the extreme likelihood of better years by Hamilton, Kinsler, and Davis?
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
I don't think there are extreme likelihoods
that Josh, Kinsler and especially Davis will have better years.
Kinsler was a 30-30 player who could improve marginally.
Hamilton is 29 years old next year and has had one healthy season in his career. A wonderful talent but I’m not depending on anything from him until I see consistency.
Davis was historically bad and the track record of players allowed to shit the bed that craptastic isn’t good.
The player on the team I see getting better is Andrus.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
If you value minor league talent then why haven't you given JD credit for a single minor league acquisition?
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
Lofton
The Lofton Signing – It was bad because it was a waste of $ 6 million and something a team with a small market payroll couldn’t afford. It was beyond stupid to believe Kenny Lofton was going to make the 2007 team better because 40 year old CF’s don’t make teams like that better.
Except he was a good player in 2007. FanGraphs has him as a 3.0 WAR player in 2007. That’s a bargain for $6 million.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 12, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
"Except he was a good player in 2007"
Bullshit.
On May 15, the day the Ranger record went to 15-24, Kenny Lofton was hitting .238 with a .306 batting average.
It was only after June 1 (when the team was hopelessly out of contention) that Lofton began to play really well and he did so for 6 weeks. Was that a good signing for a team on a small market payroll?
It also wasn’t coincidental that Kenny Lofton wasn’t offered a contract to play in 2008 and is now retired.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
One would think that a sabermetrics genius like yourself would acknowledge the 3.0 WAR he posted
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
Ah
I didn’t realize only Lofton’s performance prior to 5/15 counts, rather than what he did on the season.
I guess the Rangers should have signed someone else for $6 million who would have been crappy after 5/15, but great before then.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 12, 2009 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
No
that particular team had no business giving $ 6 million to a 40 year old CF.
Old players, especially 40 year old CFs don’t help those kind of teams improve and spending $ 6 million to find out is inexcusable.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
LMAO
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Dec 12, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
Answer the following
a) Over the course of the season, at 3 WAR, did he outperform his contract?
b) Ignoring whether he should have been signed, did JD acquire a “valuable asset” in MaxRam in trade for Lofton?
c) Do you think JD could have used the $6M to acquire a CF and another player, which would have made us a playoff contender that season?
I challenge you to answer these questions without any explanation, and then think to yourself for a few minutes about those answers.
It was absolutely beyond stupid
To think that $6M would buy us a CF stop-gap
It was beyond stupid to think that stop-gap would put up a .380 OPS, 115 OPS+, and swipe 21/25
It was beyond stupid to think that stop-gap could be turned for a “valuable asset to the organization”
I wish we would have spent that $6M on a player that would have won us the world series, instead
Gawd, you're like a physic woodpecker
full of shit and don’t do anything but make noise.
by twinkilling on Dec 12, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And the 2007 Rangers were 46-56 with Kenny Lofton
when he was traded, the year after they finished 80-82.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Yes, Lofton was solely responsbile for that 46-56 record
That had nothing to do with our atrocious pitching staff.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
I didn't say that
but 40 year old CF’s on teams like the 2007 Rangers don’t help those teams improve.
Players that help you improve are those who are young with upside not those who are old and in decline.
It was a terrible signing and the $ 6 million was a waste of a precious resources.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Your actually ignoring
the most important thing regarding the Lofton signing.
He liked the omar signing and wanted him to be the everyday player. Can anyone spot the difference between Omar and Lofton?
Jeeez, the players JD picked up in the Tex trade have barely made any kind of meaningful contributions to the Rangers in The Show, but the pro-JD crowd is still running around shouting "I told ya so."
2 questions
A) Who should have played center field that year?
B) How should that $6 million have been spent?
Answer both questions with an answer that would have helped the team improve both in 2007 and beyond.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
Actually
It was $4 million, not $6 million, since he was traded 2/3rds of the way through the season.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 12, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions
They signed him for $ 6 million
and it was a waste of precious resource.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
I'll ask again
How should those resources have been allocated and who should have played CF instead?
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
Marlon Byrd was signed as a free agent
that off-season and could have played CF.
I’ve answered the other part…the money should have been applied to an offer towards Ted Lilly.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
If JD went into the 2007 season relying on Marlon Byrd in CF you would have killed him for it
At that point, Marlon was an entirely unproven player who was generally considered a disappointment.
The Lilly signing would have made us no better than and would have had less value down the road than Lofton. After pitching in the tough league, not kiddie NL ball, he would have sucked as bad as any of our other pitchers that year and then become untradeable.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
not to mention with our defense that year
I imagine that Lilly would have floundered
plus, he was pretty intent on going to Chicago, iirc
"At that point, Marlon was an entirely unproven player who was generally considered a disappointment."
So?
He was available, cheap and could have played CF so that means JD could have used that $ 6 million as part of an offer to get Ted Lilly.
If JD gets Ted Lilly, he does’t have to get his ass kicked in the Danks/McCarthy deal.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Would you have supported JD rolling with Marlon in April of 2007?
No fricking way you would have.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
JD doesn't run his moves
by me so that’s something that doesn’t matter.
Marlon Byrd was available, cheap and could play CF and JD once again misused a precious resource by signing Kenny Lofton for $ 6 million.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Would YOU have supported JD starting an unproven Marlon in CF?
I didn’t ask if he ran the idea by you. I asked if you would have supported or criticized the move.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
Starcraft II is coming out
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
I know, I've tried soo hard to not visit the website twice a week
I might convince myself to drop out of law school
If you thought that was a waste of resources,
what is your opinion of picking up Blalock’s $7 million 2009 option?
by Randy Richardson on Dec 12, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions
A big part of the problem in 2007
was the start of the team and Lofton wasn’t very good for the first two months of the season.
He played well for 6 weeks so he could get traded but this team with this payroll shouldn’t have signed him for $ 6 million.
Max Ram was a valuable asset in the organization but that’s tempered by the fact he barely played in The Show.
I would have liked to have seen that money applied to a pitcher like Ted Lilly.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
The problem with that
larger contract for more years on a high-WHIP, 30 yr old pitcher, who hadn’t posted a sub-4 era or pitched 200 innings in a season at that point in his career
4/$40 was a bad signing that worked out well, imo
All the SP’s that off-season were being overvalued, and we weren’t a #3 starter away from the playoffs
JD got great value for the $6M he used, and IIRC, we didn’t pick up Lofton’s contract, so we paid significantly less than $6M for good production at CF, a fun personality, and Max Ramirez
Plus, he's not exactly the last piece of the puzzle
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
Its amazing what playing a bunch of games
against the Pirates, Astros, Brewers and Reds can do to make a pitcher look better isn’t it?
What do voluntary mean?
Especially when the pitchers are hitting every time through the order, even for the good teams
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
well
i don’t think it’s necessarily a black and white issue on the medical records. I think its possible that one or both teams looked at the medical records, saw red flags, and wanted to see what else is out there before committing to the injury risk.
I guess Ryan’s comments make it sound like they are ok with Lowell but it’s possible the Red Sox weren’t ok with what they saw on Max.
or that MLB isn't ok
with the Rangers taking on $3M. Or that Beltre isn’t jumping right up to sign with Boston.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
i agree, but there arn't any exciting options available in our price range
though most of those don’t require giving maxram up i suppose.
the preceding post was a great success.
@Rotoworld_BB C. Wang -R -NYY: Yankees non-tender Chien-Ming Wang http://tinyurl.com/d2bout
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
And he's already rumored to be going to the Dodgers
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Just coming to post that.
Got the think the Yankees are one of the worst teams to non-tender you…not a team that shrinks from the idea of dead money.
Still love to see him become a Ranger.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Dec 12, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
i liked the idea of going after him at various points in the past
woops
the preceding post was a great success.
The very last comment ever at Inside Corner
A. Stephens, Raleigh NC @ November 14th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
For the short time it existed "Inside Corner" became my "go to" site for Rangers content. Big loss.
Could not disagree more with Brandon above. For a flavor of what that site is all about look no further than the "Will Carroll calls out Josey Wales" thread. That is who they are. More power to em, I prefer grownup discourse….
should have been banned 2 years ago
it is what it is
by ab03 on Dec 12, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
man I love Will Clark
I was talkin more his leadership though. I remember when I was a kid reading about his insane vision it was like 20/10 or something crazy like that. Just blew my 12 year old coke bottle glasses wearing mind
by WhiplashWhiteside on Dec 12, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
Trivia question
I have an old Baseball America lying around the house here dated July 1, 2007.
In the back it lists team transactions done during the month of June that summer. Can anybody figure out what significant transaction is listed there for Texas? Hint – it has nothing to do with the 2007 draft.
Answer
for fucks sake people...
Fuck Mike Estabrook
by Horns130 on Dec 12, 2009 4:05 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I Fart In your general direction!
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Image Hosted by tripod.
"Blister please, with those wings in your spine.
Love to be with a brother of mine.
How he'd love to find your tongue in his teeth,
In a struggle to find secret songs that you keep,
Wrapped in boxes so tight, sounding only at night as you sleep." ~Jeff Mangum; Neutral Milk Hotel
Well it's just
…a still from the Holy Grail. The knights looking up at the french asshole on top of the castle wall. Nothing all that amusing.
by Black Francis on Dec 12, 2009 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
heh I had a feeling you'd stop by to finish this one off...
let me state fwiw imho Rodney is not an asshole either!!!
:)
So who's todays mistress? They're coming out of the Woodswork!
I resemble that remark!
Err, wait a sec…
:)
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Lone Star Ball
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
