OT: 2010 HOF class?
by gossamer on Dec 14, 2009 5:15 PM CST
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who gets in you think?
does andre dawson get in? bert blylevin? mark mcguire? lee smith? tim raines?
1st time ballot guys:
fred mcgriff everybody loved the crime dog! 7 homers short of magical 500. 1500+ rbi, 134OPS+ for career. 5 all star games. 6 time top 10 in mvp voting. little league training video spokesman. won a world series, lost another one.
edgar martinez? if it's hard for relievers to get in, it should be hard for a dh as well. but he was such a great hitter. spent entire career with 1 team (that's gotta count for something?) career .312/.418/.515 and ops+ of 147. 7 all star games. 3 times finished in top 10 in mvp voting.
i think robbie alomar is probably 1st ballot material. hit .300 for career. career 116 ops+. pretty darn impressive for a second baseman. 1500 career runs scored, 470+ sb. won 2 world series. 12 time all star, 5 times in top 10 in mvp voting, 10 gold gloves.
barry larkin? spent entire career on 1 team. career .295/371/444 with 116 career ops+. pretty good at shortstop before AROD/NOMAR/TEJADA/JETER made it a hitting position. 1300 runs scored, 370+ stolen bases. a 30/30 season. 12 time all star, 1 time mvp, another time in top 10. 3 gold gloves. silver slugger winner 9 times.
if i were to rank the players in order of most deserving to least deserving (in my opinion) i'd go:
bert blylevin
roberto alomar
andre dawson
mark mcguire
barry larkin
fred mcgriff
tim raines
lee smith
edgar martinez
i think all should be in the hall (i'm a big hall of fame guy). blylevin, alomar and dawson should all get in this year (not saying they will, just what i think SHOULD be). the others should get in a few years down the road. tell me who i left off (galaraga, jack morris, ?) who i have listed that shouldn't be in, how my order is messed up, etc...
or just ignore.
and yeah, go RANGERS OFF SEASON!
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Alomar spit on an ump
the committee might punish him for that. I would love to see Blylevin finally get in.
That's why they call them business sox
Blylevin
Needs to be in.
I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.
I like to look at B-R.com's player comparisons
for potential HOFers. Not that its the end-all, be-all — just think its interesting.
Martinez = Will Clark, Todd Helton, John Olerun
Blylevin = Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, Fergie Jenkins
Alomar = Derek Jeter, Lou Whitaker, Frisch
Dawson = Billy Williams, Tony Perez, Dave Parker
McGriff = Willie McCovey, Willie Stargell, Jeff Bagwell
Larkin = Alan Trammel, Ray Durham, Derek Jeter
by robert_d_wilfong on Dec 14, 2009 8:07 PM CST reply actions
great comps for mcgriff
blylevin suffers because he was never “the most fear pitcher”. c’mon…
alomar has pretty good comps. whitaker is probably underrated outside of detroit (no HOFer though). i gotta believe though that alomar would compare favorably against whitaker.
dawson like bert is a body of work guy. while his obp is real low, you have to remember he was an 80’s player. williams and perez are both HOFers and dave parker had a real good career.
larkin…jeter is nice to be compared to, future HOFer. looking and ray durham’s career was better than i remember, though clearly not a HOFer. alan trammell had a real nice career and defines “border line” candidate.
edgar martinez comparing to will clark, todd helton and john olerud is weird. i’d expect todd helton to be in a whole other league though. i always liked john olerud and will clark was a real good hitter as well. but just from watching them i always put edgar as quite a bit better hitter than them. edgar having a 147 OPS+ versus 137 for clark and 128 for olerud. a ops of .933 versus .881 and .863. but then again they played defense and he was a DH. i think martinez should probably get in, but he should definitely wait. like i said, if it’s tough for a reliever to get in, it should be for a DH as well. i think martinez should get in, but baines probably shouldn’t. both were rare in that both were part of the very rare breed of good to great quality hitting DH’s for a long period of time.
i know it waffle and i’m not clear, but it’s my own opinion on what hall of fame is. and i’ve mentioned before i’m into having a large hall of fame. if you were really really good for 10 years you probably get in if i had a vote.
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
The Martinez comps
really surprised me as well. I considered him one of the Top 3 hitters of the 90s. But I guess the lack of a position really hurts. I agree that he’s an eventual HOFer.
1.107 OPS in 95, over 1.000 in five of six years.
by robert_d_wilfong on Dec 15, 2009 1:05 AM CST up reply actions
Look at the comp players for Kirby Puckett.........
..and try to keep from laughing that he got in the Hall without purchasing a ticket.
I'd vote yes on.........
…….Blyleven, McGwire, and Robbie Alomar
I think McGriff and Dawson were excellent players, but not quite HOF material. Of course, neither are Ryne Sandberg, Kirby Puckett, Gary Carter, or Tony Perez.
Kirby
he’s a different type of HOFer – he played 12 years, the minimum is 10 and most HOFers play a lot longer. He didn’t have any overwhelming statistical numbers.
The thing about Puckett is that he was about as well-rounded, complete a player as there was, especially during the offensive doldrums that he played in (looking at his numbers have to consider the context). MVP votes 9 of 12 years. Pretty much the best centerfielder – defensively and offensively – of the pre-Griffey era. Two world series.
Puckett is a HOFer, for the same reason Ozzie Smith is (though I like to argue Smith was overrated, he’s still a clear HOFer). They were great players in way that isn’t obvious unless you watch their games. But when you watch the guy play, you realize that he’s the best player on the field regardless of what team is playing.
Go Rice Owls!
I have always thought it was silly that Puckett was in the Hall...........
…..his career line is .318/.360/.477 207 HR with an OPS+ of 124 in 12 seasons.
Excellent player. But not a Hall of Famer in my book.
If he was 6’ 2" and weighed 210 lbs, he would have been viewed as just another All Star-level ballplayer, but not a HOF player. But since he was short, chubby, and smiled a lot, he was a freaking media darling. As long as you weren’t a female he cornered in the restroom, everyone loved him.
Meanwhile, Albert Belle (who was an asshole and a miserable human being) had a career line of .295/.369/.564 with 381 HR and an OPS+ of 143 in 12 seasons.
Both had their careers derailed early due to injuries. Belle never got anywhere close to the 75% vote on the ballot. Puckett was voted in on 1st ballot.
That's what I was going to say
During Puckett’s time it was difficult to hit .300, and 28 HR’s may put you in the league top ten.
by Black Francis on Dec 15, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
Jim Rice was a pretty questionable player to get voted in
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I'm witholding my opinion
Until we hear how Woody Paige plans to vote.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"WHAT A SHITLOAD OF FUCK" - LL's "Poochie" on Rich Harden signing with Texas over Seattle
Blyleven
Two big reasons to vote for him:
1. He’s probably the most deserving pitcher not already in
2. One more former Ranger in the Hall
If I had a ballot, I’d definitely vote for Blyleven, Raines, and McGwire, and would also consider Larkin, Alomar, Edgar, Dawson, Smith, and McGriff, though none of those guys are quite automatic for me the way the first three are. I can’t say that I’d have a problem with any of them being elected, though.
And while these guys aren’t eligible any longer, I would have voted for Quisenberry, and would have strongly considered Trammell, Whitaker, and Albert Belle.
"Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."
big yes
on albert belle.
at least belle would be at the top of the hall of the very good with chili davis, gil hodges and jimmy key.
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
and homer bush
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
Totally agree on Belle.........
……..I left him off my list above because I gave that argument up long ago.
Any Hall that lets Kirby Puckett in but not Albert Belle is flawed/
Albert Belle and Don Mattingly
were really good in their day, probably one of the best, but part of the HOF requirements is what you career looks like in the cumulative. I don’t really know how Kirby got in without those as well.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
If you let Mattingly in
doesnt Will Clark have to be in as well?
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
by Michael Cave on Dec 16, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
I think it's the Year of Blyleven
Finally. I don’t see how they can keep that guy out.
DH or not, I think Martinez has to go in. That guy could flat out hit, and maybe it’s just a faulty memory but it seemed to me like he hit everyone, even the best pitchers in the league.
Really I think all the first ballot guys should get in but that probably won’t happen. Alomar is definitely a HOF 2B though. No question about that. Larkin’s easy to forget but he was very, very good. For some reason I always disliked McGriff but you can’t deny that the numbers are there.
Edgar
During the mid-to-late 90s, when the Rangers and M’s were the predominant teams in the West, there were three players on the Mariners that I always hated seeing: Griffey, Olerud, and Edgar.
Griffey could beat you every way possible- defense, baserunning, hitting. Olerud was a fantastic defender at first, always wore that stupid-ass helmet, and was a doubles machine. But it was always Edgar that I feared when the M’s had a rally going. I’m not a big believer in the concept of “clutch,” but it seemed like that guy always came up big against us.
"Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."
I think you're forgetting when Olerud played for the M's...
…was when the Rangers were pretty bad. His four full years with Seattle were 2000-2003 and Texas finished 4th in the AL West all of those seasons.
I have no objection to man walking on the moon.
" if it's hard for relievers to get in, it should be hard for a dh as well."
DH’s have much more potential impact than most relievers.
My Ballot
Blyleven
Martinez
Larkin
Raines
Alomar
Trammel
McGwire
I’d also heavily consider a few, notably Ventura and Smith.
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