T.R. Sullivan: Rangers agree with Darren Oliver on a one year deal
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 21, 2009 11:36 AM CST
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PrintT.R. Sullivan is reporting that the Rangers have agreed with Darren Oliver on a one year deal for $3.5 million with a vesting option, pending a physical.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record...I don't get this deal.
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The way the Millwood-Harden-Lowell deals appeared to be linked
would lead me to believe this is the first in a series of moves. What those might be, I have no idea.
"I’m not in the meetings and not part of the discussions; it’s not my responsibility. . My responsibility is to go out and win tonight. My focus is to win tonight. The club has to look at more than just this year." -Michael Young
here's hoping...
…for a deal involving a pitcher bringing back a bat…
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
There has to be a trade incoming
Most likely involving Two Frank or CJ for a DH. Best case scenario being Brad Hawpe.
He's not good vs lhp, which seems to be an area of concern
"I’m not in the meetings and not part of the discussions; it’s not my responsibility. . My responsibility is to go out and win tonight. My focus is to win tonight. The club has to look at more than just this year." -Michael Young
750 OPS
That’s not good, but it won’t kill you.
by Conjunction on Dec 21, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
We can get that for cheaper.
In terms of both players and dollars.
No Brad Hawpe trades.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.
by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Unlike us, JD knows exactly how much they have to spend
and has a better idea of how much the various DH options will cost and how open they are to coming to Texas.
Oliver for 3.5 million is not a bad signing on its own, its bad if it blocks specific other signings of more importance. I’ll trust him that hes got it planned out.
the preceding post was a great success.
The move to sign Oliver doesn't address the
glaring weakness from last year and unless there is something else coming via trade, this is a very baffling move.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
by Josey Wales on Dec 21, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
signing Oliver wasn't supposed to address the glaring weakness from last year
why would you think it would?
We supposedly have very limited funds to
address the weaknesses of This Thing.
We have CJ Wilson & Chris Ray available for our bully if needed and yes I know we’re toying with the idea of moving CJ to the starting rotation.
Our glaring weakness was a lack of OBP and the fact that we had Murphy & Byrd hitting in the 3 and 4 holes this past season.
We had a 5 game spell in September where we scored one run and we scored 99 runs (in 26 games) in the month of June.
How the fuck does Darren Oliver change that?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
by Josey Wales on Dec 21, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
Wait for a few days or weeks
This probably signals an impending trade, young pitching for something. So, it is too early to be casting your 5 minute analysis on the daily what-did-he-do-today tirade.
by SanDiegoKev on Dec 21, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
well
if there is no trade coming, then it’s possibly a bad signing because
a) it means we just aren’t in on any other bats – which sucks because we do need a bat
b) JD has put a premium on being a veteran of playoff teams.
The issue is that b) seems somewhat likely as we saw with Lowell.
It's possibly a bad signing, but everybody here has already pulled out the hot iron
I find it difficult to believe that there will be no more bat additions, after all that’s been said during the off-season. If it turns out that we really don’t sign a bat because of lack of money, then I will come back and lambaste this deal like everybody else. Secondly, I don’t think the Lowell deal is so much about the Veteran-ness than it is about getting somebody with a more predicable performance – thus a known performance floor. What if they just went ahead and signed Vlad or Thome instead- these guys are veterans of playoff teams too, right? What makes them so different from Lowell in that respect? Would we have complained that signing Vlad or Thome is a sign that JD puts a premium on veterans?
AJM will be forever inconsolable since we didn’t sign Nick Johnson, and just like Juan Cruz last season, whenever a move is made by the Rangers or somebody else, he will lament that we couldn’t sign Nick Johnson. Baseball Jesus hates old people; some people hate Darren Oliver; Josey hates everything. I am as disappointed as everyone else that we missed on Johnson, but this place is turning from Days of Our Lives into one of those Mexican TV dramas.
by Telegraph on Dec 21, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Im not disappointed we missed on Johnson
Don’t think he would be a good fit here
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
He's a fantastic hitter.
I know your qualms about his lack of HR power, but a .425 OBP DH who has tended to post walk rates of around 18% over his career would have been a fantastic fucking fit here.
FAN.
TAS.
TiC.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.
by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
I remember bigsteve once told me
that he would rather have a .250 hitter who is speedy, but never walks and hits nothing but singles over a guy with footspeed of 0.8 Thome, never gets a hit, but walks 80% of the times he is at bat and striking out in the rest.
I knew better than rebelling against his supremacy since at time.
I believe you are mistaken
The only time a 250 hitter with no walks is ok in my book is if hes crushing a ton of home runs and slugs well over 500.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
OK in that hypothetical yeah
Ive had other arguments with people on here that involved low avg/high OBP guys and I am of the belief that in most cases i’d rather have the high avg/low walk guy over the low avg/high walk guy.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Where do you hit him in this lineup?
Borbon, Kinsler, Young, Hamilton is supposedly gonna be the top 4 which Johnson wouldn’t crack. people bitched last year about Cruz’s spot which looks like it will be 5th this year. So does Johnson hit 6th? Sure he may walk but how does that help with Davis, Salty, and Elvis coming up behind him?
We need someone to slot into the middle of the lineup who can cash in and drive in runs. if we had a spot open to hit johnson 2nd I would be all for him because ideally thats where he would hit to get on base in front of the big boys in the lineup. but hitting at the bottom of the order I don’t think walks are what I am looking for even though walks are better than outs they just don’t do enough for me. Especially not at his price tag.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
1. Borbon/Andrus (RHP/LHP)
2. Face.
3. Johnson.
4. Cruz.
5. Hamilton.
6. Popup McBatflip.
7. Crush.
8. Saltgarden.
9. Andrus/Borbon. (LHP/RHP)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.
by thedirkatron on Dec 21, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
That was difficult....
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 21, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
If Chris Davis can't hit higher than
7th this year, we need to run his ass out of here.
He’s either a middle of the order hitter or he’s the second coming of Doug Mientciwiczhowever you spell his name.
1) Borbon/Andrus
2) Face
3) Hamilton
4) Glaus
5) Crush
6) Ian
7) Cruz
8) Salty/Tea
9) Andrus/Borbon
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
by Josey Wales on Dec 21, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
ok
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 21, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
Davis won't hit higher than 7th but thats more on the manager than him I believe
What it sounds like will be the lineup:
Borbon
Kinsler
Young
Hamilton
open
Cruz
Davis
catcher
Elvis
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Hamilton isn't hitting 5th
Sure in fantsay world that would be a nice lineup but what are the chances that ever happens next year?
We have openings at either 4 or 5 (depending on where Cruz hits) or 6 in the lineup. I want more pop in those spots
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
That manager
is another boil on the ass of This Thing that needs to be removed before we get serious about moving forward.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
the difference, as stated before,
is that our offense is what hurt us last year and what is hurting again this year. You’re right – JD has been pretty adamant that we need another bat up until now so we will probably get another one in some way.
But 3.5M would seemingly limit our options severely.
And, like AJM, I would much rather have made the offense a priority. I think if you look at who we end up at DH and compare Oliver and that person with someone like Johnson (though maybe not Johnson) and the internal RP options, you are going to like the second combo better.
You can take your logic and stuff it
The peolpez demand overreaction 24/7/365!!! Every poster here is smarter than Nolan, JD, & Co…didn’t you realize that?
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
and, if anything is obvious
it is that usually thoughtful posters are coming out for darren oliver because they remember something he did over 10 years ago. but we’re being illogical.
anyway, everybody against this move seems to agree, if this is accompanied by a trade or a FA bat signing that is on par with some of the other names in the higher tier, then it is fine. don’t see any gloom and doom. I guess “I don’t get this deal” means “the sky is falling where you come from”
I love
Nolan Ryan.
The Face.
A sober Josh Hamilton.
Ian.
CJ.
Bad-ass hitters who can hit clean-up, get on base and treat LH pitching like their personal bitch.
Scooter Feldman.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
by Josey Wales on Dec 21, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Flowers and Sunshine, Josey!
but do you love flowers and sunshine?
I like this deal
Oliver’s a very effective reliever. We can have a dominant bullpen. If they still add an impact bat, I don’t understand the hatred for adding Oliver as well. What’s wrong with CJ and Oliver in the pen together?
Yeah.
That’s the rub, though, eh?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 21, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
Voice of Reason
I actually appreciate this comment a lot. I think it is spot on.
I cannot allow myself to believe this is the last relevent move by the Front Office. This club has very clear needs, several of which have been expressed direclty by JD, and is obviously in win now mode as evidenced by the Harden signing and the Lowell trade that fell through. There is absolutely no way that the club is willing to spend the rest of the money left in the budget on a veteran reliever. It doesn’t make sense.
I like the move from a player perspective
I think Oliver will provide a solid, steady and reliable 7th inning lefty arm that also excels versus righthanders as well. I don’t know why exactly people are flipping shit because this is not a hitter who can mash lefties. The offseason is not anywhere close to over yet and none of us have any true idea how much the rangers have left to spend or even who their exact hitter targets are. So until we get to march and darren oliver was our last major league free agent griping, save the griping.
"He do what he do" - Ron Washington
by dustinvandeman on Dec 21, 2009 12:08 PM CST reply actions
every indication has been that the rangers have about 5-6M more to work with
I don’t see why we shouldn’t form opinions based on that number.
which still leaves money to sign several of the potential hitters that people around here have been advocating
Gomes, Tatis, garko, and maybe even a guy like thome will most likely all sign for under 3 mil this season. That 3 million also gives us a little flex room to take on more salary if we do make a trade.
"He do what he do" - Ron Washington
by dustinvandeman on Dec 21, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
I do not like those names
and I’m not sure if we can sign one of them with our very strict budget but I trust JD that somebody gets signed. Seems odd to me that we are pinching every nickel and then we feel that RP is a spot of weakness. I did not see it as such.
those are not my ideal names
but im not sure if there is anyone out there in free agency that would really be any better. with that being said I have absolutely no idea who might be available via trade.
"He do what he do" - Ron Washington
by dustinvandeman on Dec 21, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
Whatever happened to
Josh Hamilton is so fragile that he’ll have to DH 75-125 times per year to stay healthy? If this is true then it would seem a full time DH like Vlad, etc would be a redundant piece and a viable outfielder with some pop (right handed) is what’s needed. I’m not sure we get one of those without making a trade with CJ needed as part of this trade (maybe FF).
Our offense will be improved only if on board talent bounces back or on board talent is traded for new blood. Any additions will not make enough difference if our current roster doen’t pick up their performance.
I never thought I’d see the day that LSB would up in arms over which non-tendered veteran would be picked up, theoretically blocking the path of prospects.
Poll
I’d be curious to see what everyone’s thoughts are on moving CJ to the rotation. Personally, I don’t really see the point but it might make for an interesting poll over slow news days that are coming up.
I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.
OT: Apparently the Cowboys-Eagles game
can be flexed into the Sunday Night Football spot…even though the Cowboys will be playing on SNF next week against the Redskins. Also, their game in Philly was on SNF. This seems odd to me, but Barry Horn says it on the DMN’s sports media blog here.
DMN commenters…sigh. “The Cowboys haven’t won anything in 20 years”
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
I was thinking, "man I can't believe it's been 20 years"
and then I did some math and realized it hasn’t
Since they won a playoff game?
• Jan. 6, 2007 – NFC Wild Card – Seattle 21, Dallas 20
• Jan. 3, 2004 – NFC Wild Card – Carolina 29, Dallas 10
• Jan. 9, 2000 – NFC Wild Card – Minnesota 27, Dallas 10
• Jan. 2, 1999 – NFC Wild Card – Arizona 20, Dallas 7
• Jan. 5, 1997 – NFC Divisional – Carolina 26, Dallas 17
• Dec. 28, 1996 – NFC Wild Card – Dallas 40, Minnesota 15
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
No, it wasn't
Just funny to compare the relative success of the NFL & MLB teams. Oliver makes the comparison apt today.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
I would think most people would say the Cowboys have been more successful
over the last 20 years – by a huge margin.
I don't get something
But why is there a pre-emptve backlash hear against the people who don’t like this trade? Someone link me to one sky is falling, illogical post. Overreaction? Mexican TV drama? Get a grip. Some people aren’t in love with the Darren Oliver signing. That’s all.
I think it falls
under “overreaction” as you list them above. I’m mostly kidding. I haven’t gone through but about 25% of the 1000ish comments on Darren Oliver, and I don’t plan to.
I would say that the number of comments a $3.5MM reliever is getting is pretty baffling. Speaks to the off season I guess.
3.5MM is a significant amount of money when there was reportedly 5M to work with
and the club’s biggest need was identified by most to be offense. Couple that with most thinking that lefty relief pitching was not a big need and baffling seems about right, especially since nobody is calling it a bad signing.
If the club REALLY
only had 5m left to spend, then I think everyone on this forum agrees with you; however, I think most feel that the Oliver signing indicates that JD has a little more wiggle room after the new ownership announcement. I expect that Darren Oliver will NOT be the last addition before ST.
It's not a backlash,
A lot of people are complaining (loudly, mind you) about this because of either:
1. It’s not a move that addresses the DH situation, and from reactions (particularly last night), some are almost convinced that signing Oliver means we are not going to address it.
2. Some thinks Oliver is no good, old, redundant, or a token signing due to his veteraness
3. Bullpen improvement is different from hitting improvement
There is good evidence to support 1, because we are known to have a limited budget. There is also a counter argument – these moves are clearly indicates that we are in a win-now mode, and it would be kind of pointless if other weaknesses on the team were not addressed at the same time. The overall sentiments seems to be an almost certainty that we have squandered away whatever little resources we’ve had. I don’t know about you, but that’s what I get from the comments from the 4 Oliver threads we’ve had since last night.
2 is also arguable. Oliver has been good, if not very good the last 3 years, and the question is whether he can sustain that performance for 1 or 2 more – which nobody knows for sure – though it’s likely that he will. There were some confusion because he was a lefty, so some automatically assumed that he would be a Rapada/CJ/Snyder clone. Now AJM has put up a post showing the splits and arguing, in part, that they may be caused by luck or chance. Even then, the best thing you can say is that he has no inherent splits, which does not make him the same as CJ or Snyder/Rapada. It is more than reasonable to have CJ, Oliver, AND Snyder/Rapada in the same pen. I am not quite understanding the veteran point either. If you want someone with proven performance, they almost have to be veterans because younger guys who fit that profile are either unavailable or too expensive.
3. A run saved = a run scored. If you believe this, then if Oliver saves you 10 runs in a season over someone like Jennings in the pen, it’s just as good as if you gain 10 runs by replacing Murphy and generic platoon partner with a Thome in the DH spot. Sure, we didn’t address the obvious need on the team, but we have improved the team. If numerically, this amount to the same number of runs, then what is wrong with it?
Okay, I am not in love with this deal, and I share the same concern about what this means for offensive upgrades, but I fail to understand how after 500+ comments drilling this deal for being a) useless, b) mis-allocation of resources, c) incomprehensible, one post pointing out the overreaction becomes construed as a backlash against everybody who don’t like this trade. Heck, that Mexican-drama bit wasn’t even directed against you.
Another one
4. Bullpen pieces are perhaps the easiest piece of a team to fill.
Even over backup MI and swingmen. Possibly the only position that would be easier to fill is 5th OF, and that’s only because you might not want to switch pitchers to be used in relief just from your prospects (a la Feliz). However, most 5th OFs are going to released if they can’t hit their way out of a paper bag, so there’s always a decent supply of 5th OFs available, and they’re usually really cheap to sign….
The point is does this deal really need to get done NOW? Heck, we found O’Day pretty early last year. We also were able to pull up Feliz for the playoff run.
We have a plethora of options from all our prospects and our bullpen to build the bullpen. Do we really need a player GUARANTEED a bullpen spot to be signed when the most pressing need and the hardest slot to fill is a solid hitter?
Current bullpen w/o Oliver:
Francisco
O’Day
Nippert
Ray (may be injured/released)
2-3 non-starters of Wilson/Feliz/Holland/McCarthy/Mendoza/Mathis/Harrison
1-2 of Madrigal/Strop/Moscoco/Rapeda/Snyder
What happens if both Rapeda and Snyder show that they can be useful pieces? Who do we let go?
At least they’re not giving up a pick to do this (a la Catalanotto), but this signing at this time IS baffling like Adam said, because there are other options out there internally and externally and we’re devoting a significant chunk of our previous payroll to filling a need which we might already have filled….
R
good point re. Rapada/Snyder
Obviously our scouting staff saw something to like in those guys, and they have a pretty good track record of finding castoff pitchers and getting servicable bp work from them. If both Rapada and Snyder look good in ST, what then?
What a drag it is being broke.
Rapada cleared waivers so unless hes lights out I imagine hes destined for OKC to start the year
Bringing him up would require a 40 man move. I imagine if Snyder fails and we offer him back to BAL we will add Rapada
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
a run saved actually equals about 1.15 runs scored in Pythag win terms
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
I think it is because people don't know what is going to happen next...
and as Texas Rangers fans, think of Darren Oliver as terrible just by memory and gut feeling alone. Or just think of him as a “veteran nobody” Mike Lowell surrogate.
I’m willing to wait and see what happens for the rest of the off season before just taking this move in a vacuum when this off season has been all about looking beyond the vacuum.
And, bonus, regardless of what happens, a good arm is never a bad thing. You know, unless it is.
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 21, 2009 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
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