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Around SBN: Dog Football! Which Breeds Are Best Suited For The Gridiron?

Tuesday a.m. Rangers stuff

More on Darren Oliver...

Richard Durrett says that the deal is for $3 million this year, with a $3.5 million vesting option for 2011 that includes a $500K buyout. 

Anthony Andro says that Ron Washington likes the idea of having a veteran in the bullpen, but that no decision has been made on whether C.J. Wilson will move to the rotation.

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i'm gonna rec this bc I'm in a bad mood and it made me laugh out loud (aka lol)

"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz

"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis

by Cecilio's Guante on Dec 22, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

you know times are tight

when i read the update on the Oliver deal details and think, “okay, that makes this deal MUCH more palatable.”

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 11:03 AM CST reply actions  

I guess

this means that unless CJ makes the rotation, Snyder will end up getting returned.

by iblum on Dec 22, 2009 11:06 AM CST reply actions  

I don't know

Oliver isn’t really a LOOGY and CJ is more a setup man than LOOGY so I could see us keeping him a little while at least

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 22, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I think there has been way too much angst

over the Oliver signing, even with the limited budget. Even if the Rangers had a lot of money to spend they likely wouldn’t spend it to acquire a big name bat or arm. They’d still be much more likely to make a trade for a controllable asset or sign someone on a bargain contract later in the offseason.

In other words, I think you’re all correct about Oliver being a meh signing, but I really do not think it changes the complexion of the offseason plan one iota. And he provides some relatively predictable depth in the bullpen as a decent pitcher and tutor. Calm down, folks.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 22, 2009 11:07 AM CST reply actions  

Vazquez to the Yankees for Melky, a somewhat interesting LH RP, and maybe a prospect.

This is the first deal that makes me angry about the Rangers financial situation. I know other folks on LSB have been very upset about not getting Nick Johnson or some other bat, but this one involving Vazquez is the first one that seemed really, really feasible and a very big upgrade to me that is a great opportunity lost due, it seems, almost entirely to the financial situation.

I am far more upset about this than I think everyone else was about Darren Oliver.

Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.

by rooster on Dec 22, 2009 11:10 AM CST reply actions  

Yeah

What a horrible deal for Atlanta. I think the Cliff Lee trade and now the Javier Vazquez deal make me angry. If only the Rangers had some financial flexibility, they could have easily beat those offers.

by Stephen Rushin on Dec 22, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't see it as terrible

for Atlanta, not great, but not terrible. Vazquez is getting older and probably will regress, and I really like the looks of that Vizcaino prospect. I think Atlanta could have done better, but then again, if other teams weren’t offering better maybe they couldn’t have. Cabrera is cheap.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 22, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions  

and Vazquez was worth 6.6 WAR last season

with a history of being one of the most durable pitchers in the game.

What a drag it is being broke.

by tricer on Dec 22, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Meh, Vazquez

they maybe could have done better but his market is limited by his trade clause and his contract. If I were Atlanta I would have just kept him and tried some other way to get an outfielder with upside.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 22, 2009 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

I take that back

I didn’t realize that Vizcaino was such a highly touted prospect (4 stars according to BA). And it makes sense if Atlanta wants to free up money to pursue Holliday or Bay.

Still though, Cabrera is pretty crappy, even if cheap. That return is somewhat reasonable, but not as great as I imagined.

by Stephen Rushin on Dec 22, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Yah, I didn't know they got Arodys.

The report on ESPN News just said Melky.

Vizciano is a pretty damn interesting prospect.

Still a salary dump, but at least they got some value back.

He’s roughly tantamount to Font or Ross, imo.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah

I compared the Melky/Vizcaino package to Murphy and Font in another thread. And yes, I would still give that up for a year of Vazquez.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep
I would still give that up for a year of Vazquez.

Gladly.

"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks

by hightowersmith on Dec 22, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Cliff Lee

If the Rangers had really wanted to get him, they could have made the money work. The $3 million they were going to pay Lowell and the $3.5 million they are paying Oliver (including the option buyout) get you within $2.5 million of Lee’s $9 million salary, and they apparently had a couple million available to sign a catcher like John Buck or Dioner Navarro on a one-year deal.

The issue with would have been the cost in terms of players. We could have topped what Seattle gave up for him, but I’m not certain paying that price for one year of Cliff Lee would be a good move right now. I still believe that 2011-13 should be our target years, while trying to the ownership situation resolved by opening day so we can make a move in July if we are in the race this year.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 22, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

What makes you say that

the $3MM they were gonna use on Lowell wasn’t reallocated to Oliver though?

by CS3 on Dec 22, 2009 4:34 PM CST up reply actions  

but teams talk to FAs all winter

just because we were talking to sheets and harden doesn’t mean we had money for both…

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions  

To get Lee we would have to have sent alot

Not just the money, but probably Holland, Moreland, and a Bakersfield arm. That’s what Seattle gave up to get Lee. Is that something you want to give up while draining what little funds we have on Lee?

Give me team chemistry and emotion over stats any day. Do you think 34,000 Ranger fans were screaming their asses off over Pudge and his .275 OBP?

by AceJC on Dec 22, 2009 5:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Lee

No, I wouldn’t want to give that much up to get him. That’s what I said.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 22, 2009 9:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Vazquez has no trade clause in his contract

that prohibits him from being dealt to either of the West divisions.

What a drag it is being broke.

by tricer on Dec 22, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe so. I hadn't thought about that.

That could’ve been a factor as well. Good question to ask JD, though he probably can’t be that detailed in his answer. I recall rumors of Vazquez and the Rangers during the winter meetings, but, of course, no mention of how close any deal might be.

Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.

by rooster on Dec 22, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

true

i’m pretty surprised that he didn’t land in Anaheim, though. they had supposedly been talking about Lowe. It really makes me wonder if LAA is in a crappy financial situation as well…

It isn’t like Vazquez is making 20M. 11.5M is a number I would have though a lot of teams could handle.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

that makes more sense.

as if the Yankees needed any more leverage.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Vazquez has a no-trade clause to any NL West or AL West team.

In other words, he wouldn’t agree to come here even if we had the money.

by twinkilling on Dec 22, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions  

I think he'd've come here.

That was supposedly because he didn’t want to be super far away from Puerto Rico, and I’m not cartographer, but it seems like Texas is about the same distance (or maybe even closer) via plane to Puberty* Rico as New York or Chicago.

We’re in AL West, but we’re more in the center of the country, in other words.

*When I wrote “Puerto” here Firefox underlined it in red and suggested that maybe I meant “Puberty”. I giggled, then felt compelled to oblige.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

NY has a huge Puerto Rican population

So even though he may be farther away he is in a more comfortable environment for him

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 22, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Really?

You know this for a fact?

Or are you just assuming that since NY has a large Puerto Rican population that any Puerto Rican would be more comfortable there?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Its an assumption that didn't take a huge stretch to get to

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Dec 22, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Freudian slip by a browser? Wow, these things are becoming smart.

Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.

by rooster on Dec 22, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions  

The clause is in his contract for a reason.

It doesn’t say all the western division teams except Texas. If the Yankees were located in Texas, maybe he would reconsider, but he’s not going to give up anything to pitch for Texas. Prior to having a no-trade clause, he was dealt to the DBacks and got himself out of there as quickly as he could. Even though Texas is closer to PR than the West Coast is, playing in this division requires substantial travel to the West Coast and unless I’ve missed something, the Metroplex doesn’t have a big Puerto Rican community.

by twinkilling on Dec 22, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions  

So you travel big whoop

Every team travels get over it. It where he lays his head at night when not on the road not how much he travels. Every team in the West travels look at the M’s they travel more than anyother team in baseball.

2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009

by boomer1 on Dec 22, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't argue with me. Tell that to Vazquez!

He’s made up his mind he doesn’t want to be with a Western Division team and I doubt he’s going to change his mind to come to Texas.

by twinkilling on Dec 22, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

My guess would be he wants his family to be comfortable.

So maybe having a large Puerto Rican community is something for his wife and two kids if that’s even the case. I did read in Wiki that he desires to be near his homeland and he doesn’t like being the center of attention outside of the stadium. So IMO I really think he might have accepted the Rangers if we could have made his family felt comfortable.

Give me team chemistry and emotion over stats any day. Do you think 34,000 Ranger fans were screaming their asses off over Pudge and his .275 OBP?

by AceJC on Dec 22, 2009 5:52 PM CST up reply actions  

My basis is that we are extremely close to Puerto Rico,

he wouldn’t be in the center of attention (we have the Cowboys and our baseball players don’t make big splashes in the news except for Hambone recently), and we are an improving team.

He’s a family oriented guy who, if we made his family feel comfy, would consider us as a possibility, even with the no trade clause to the AL West.

Give me team chemistry and emotion over stats any day. Do you think 34,000 Ranger fans were screaming their asses off over Pudge and his .275 OBP?

by AceJC on Dec 23, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Yah, makes me feel a lot differently about what the Injuns (and then subsequently the Phills) were able to get for Lee.

This is a straight up salary dump by the Braves.

And the Yanks…

Oh, to have money.

They added Curtis Granderson and Javier Vazquez via trade without giving up too much basically because they were able to take on their salaries.

Ugh.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

What hurts just as much

as the Rangers not being in position to take on payroll is that the Mariners are in position to do so and have done so smartly. I hate Kenji Johjima for exacerbating that advantage.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 22, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

As soon as they brought in Dr. Zoinks I knew we were in trouble.

Seattle’s been a slumbering giant the last 5 or so years.

I miss the days when they were signing Carlos Silva and giving out huge extensions to Johjima.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I remember

LOL’ing when they signed Sexson and Beltre in the same offseason.

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Dec 22, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Sexson was an absolute Beast, then completely fell off the side of the world. Don't really balme them for that one.

Beltre… I thought they overpaid for a guy coming off a career year, but it wasn’t that insane.

I liked the mediocre pitchers they insisted on overpaying for.

Washburn and Silva?

Yes, please.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

It's crazy

How fast Sexson fell off the map. I’d actually reverse the two, I thought Beltre was the better pickup because he was coming off of a career year and it really looked like he was entering his prime. I thought Sexson was a larger risk due to the abysmal year he put up in ARI in 05, although I do believe he was fighting injuries.

The pitchers were much much worse, but it ties together to show Bavasi’s fail-strategy to building a team: free agency.

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Dec 22, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I think it goes back to my idea on FA, which is... you shop for the premium guys and the bargain bin, but stay the hell away from the middle of the road.

You’re almost never going to regret signing a Teixeira or a Sabathia or a Beltran or a Manny or an ARod (in terms of value), and there’s little risk in bringing in guys like a Lofton or an Abreu or someone like that on a cheap-o one or two year deal.

Where teams get in trouble is when they use free agency to fill a need.

You almost always end up way overpaying for a guy with flaws. These are the kinds of signings that get teams into trouble, imo.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Where does Darren Oliver fit.

He’s kind of middle of the road as far as the RP market goes but with a recent good stretch.

Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.

by rooster on Dec 22, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd call him a bargain bin kind of signing, actually.

When I say middle of the road guys I’m talking more about the Kevin Millwood/GMJ/Carl Pavano/Jarrod Washburn/Carlos Silva/Chan Ho Park/Aaron Rowand types that teams always seem to sign to expensive long term deals cause they were looking to plug a hole and figured they were the best options out there.

The other big thing that screws teams is taking a good or declining player and convincing yourself he’s a superstar and giving him a superstar contract. Guys like Barry Zito, Vernon Wells and Alfanso Soriano come to mind here. Paying superstar money to superstars is fine. Paying superstar money to a good-not-great player can be a franchise killer. (Unless you’ve got the money to absorb the blow, like, say, the Red Sox, Mets or Yanks.)

Paying for middle relief isn’t a great idea, imo, but a one year 3mm deal with a vesting option for a Darren Oliver isn’t going to handcuff the franchise or anything like that.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Relievers

To me, the risk in signing relievers are the 3-4+ year type deals you see handed out the Coco Cordero and B.J. Ryans of the world. This fits Dirk’s point re: signing faux-superstars to superstar money, but to me the highly volatile position of RP doesn’t deserve that kind of commitment unless its one of the true elites.

If Oliver flames out this year it’s not like we’re stuck with him on the budget for another year or two or forced to cough up some cash (Ryan)

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Dec 22, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

x

I don’t see Oliver as a veteran. I see him as an old man baseballwise.

I soloed in the Mile High Club!

by horsedooty on Dec 22, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Well put. some vague and general thoughts on the market right now:

A one year deal with a $500,000 buyout is fine for almost any player. Yes, even with the Rangers’ current budget limitations.

I have what to some here might seem a radical idea: The Rangers should not be falling all over themselves to get a bat here unless it’s a deal (in money or prospect terms) clearly in their favor. If I’m the Rangers’ front office, I’m trolling for a bargain hitter that I think can provide a few months of at least league average production. Why? Because of the unpredictability of the guys already here.

There is a tremendous amount of talent on the roster right now in guys like Hamilton and Davis, Borbon, Kinsler, etc. all of whom have question marks and very high upsides. If those two turn it around and look good you might be able to focus on other needs at the trade deadline. You have April to mid-June to evaluate what these guys and your young pitchers are going to do in 2010, and then you can be aggressive in filling those holes and needs next summer.

To give up much cash or juicy prospects right now seems foolish unless it’s a pretty favorable deal. Some here are expecting some sort of major deal, but not only is it just not going to happen, it might not be the smartest thing to do, all things considered. The best hitters out there in terms of production and contract value/control are going to cost a ton in prospects in this market. That’s reality.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Dec 22, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

ballpark adjustments

they are going to have to move that center field camera out a bit wider if we have any hopes of seeing home plate.

Biggest posterior to ever toe the rubber for the Ragers? Oliver or Terry Mathews. Give me Mathews. He was unsightly to look at.

Didn't anybody tell you how to gracefully disappear in a room

by red shoe ranger on Dec 22, 2009 11:18 AM CST reply actions  

Terry Matthews has, and will forever hold, the award for Largest Ass in Rangers History.

"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz

"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis

by Cecilio's Guante on Dec 22, 2009 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Terry Mathews starring as

The Beaver Lolwut Pear!

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.

by Rodney on Dec 22, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Mathews

That dude’s ass made mine look small. And if you’ve ever met me, I do not have a small ass.

"To have the judgment and wisdom and personal touch of Nolan Ryan, and the tremendous group that JD has assembled, I think the Rangers on the baseball side are the envy of every franchise in baseball in terms of talent."

-- Chuck Greenberg

by RCCook on Dec 22, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Heh

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.

by Rodney on Dec 22, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

OT

Just finished Born To Run(the book).

Absolutely loved it.

Didn't anybody tell you how to gracefully disappear in a room

by red shoe ranger on Dec 22, 2009 11:34 AM CST reply actions  

are you a runner?

what did you like about it? (I’m thinking about reading it myself)

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

I just assumed

It was about Springsteen….

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Dec 22, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Just began a month ago

Ran a 27:15 5K last Sat . Joined Luckes Locker training program to run a half in March

enough about my running prowess(or lack there of)….

I’ve typed and deleted three different summaries…..The book had a little of everything. The most discussed aspect of the book is the idea of barefoot running. Through evolution we as a people were “born to run”, and loooong distances at that Nike takes a lot of heat for developing cushioned running shoes which weakened our feet and allowed us to learn incorrect striding. Running barefoot will naturally get one to land on their midfoot, as opposed to their heel(which causes the majority of running injuries. The book is a direct rebuttal to anyone who says that running is bad for you.

The characers of teh book were the best part. I finished the book and immediately googles all th epeople from the book to see wht they have been up to since the book came out. I wish there was a book on each of tehm individually. Of course a book about ultramarathoners is bound to have wonderful “characters”. Only “crazy” people run 100 mile races, right?

The book certainly exceeded my expectations and I believe will provide plenty of motivation to my running going forward. It helped me see that running is indeed “fun”.

Didn't anybody tell you how to gracefully disappear in a room

by red shoe ranger on Dec 22, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll just post this again

in case anyone missed it.

Sign Glaus to a deal similar to Harden and Oliver (that is, with a second year buy out that increases the total value while also slightly backloading it).

Bring in Austin Kearns on an NRI to compete with Brandon Boggs to be our 5th OF

Bring in Josh Bard on an NRI to be our backup C so Teagarden play full time in AAA.

And just for fun, what would we need to offer the Astros to get Hunter Pence back home in Arlington? David Murphy, CJ Wilson and ???

Pence, a righty who hits lefties well but doesn’t need to be platooned, is a plus defender in the OF.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=8252&position=OF

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 11:45 AM CST reply actions  

as much as we all would love it

i dont think there’s any ways the Astros trade Pence to us. Plus, I’m not too thrilled of Josh Lewin saying 50 times in the broadcast every game that Pence is from Arlington heh

After Fuentes blows a save and an Angels loss to the Indians:
"Angels still in first place" - UCI Halo
"Hey you know who would have gotten those 3 outs in the 9th?
Darren O’Day." - FirebatM3
LOL

by MayurP on Dec 22, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Or when he hits a HR Lewin spits out

He got Fifty Pence on the dollar on that one!

2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009

by boomer1 on Dec 22, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Go ahead and hit your off button there, little boom boom.

You’re more of an off-air talent.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 22, 2009 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

And you are...

…more of an off-post talent but we still put up with you paperboy.

2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009

by boomer1 on Dec 22, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

berkman

if cj is headed that way i want berkman

by awall22 on Dec 22, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

we can't afford Berkman

and the Astros have been amazingly loyal to their “franchise” guys like Bagwell, Biggio, Berkman and Oswald.

Guys like Lee (who we also can’t afford) and Pence may be easier to wiggle loose.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

franchise guy

add Pence to the list. He is all but untouchable at this point.

by Phat Elvis on Dec 22, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a bit of a stretch.

Unless you’re referring to the Astros perhaps just being in love with the dude or something… which they might be.

In terms of pure baseball value though, I hesitate to call him franchise guy.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

well. . . .

they really looove the guy, and other than Berkman, he’s all they got.
Also, he is one of the few thats left that came up through their farm system

by Phat Elvis on Dec 22, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

that's probably true

but this trade is about incremental value. Houston loves Pence, but Murphy is a local kid (grew up in Houston) who is an able corner OF, and Wilson would immediately come in and help them replace Valverde/Hawkins (along with Lyon). And McCarthy, as much as we distrust him, is far beyond their other options at the back end of their rotation. Plus all of these guys are cost effective for the next two years (or more) and Houston is supposedly working with a pretty tight budget. It may take more, but I think there’s a potential match there.

I’m sure they’d rather trade Lee for a similar package, but no one is going to take on that contract these days.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd offer them Murphy/Ceej/Teagarden/McCarthy.

Really doubt they’d take that, though. Maybe if you took back Kaz Matsui to get his contract off their books (5mm in ’10, really bad in ’09, but good in ’07 and 08), but probably not even then.

Pence is pretty damn good, and he’s cheap and entering his prime.
 
If push came to shove… Would you do Ian Kinsler + David Murphy for Hunter Pence? Cause that’s probably what it’d take.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

lost

you are out of your mind kinsler alone > pence

by awall22 on Dec 22, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I said that's what it'd take.

I wouldn’t do that.

I gave it more as an example of what I think it’d take to get Pence out of Houston…

In other words they’d have to be blown away and I don’t think we need to blowing them away for Hunter Pence right now.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Pence isn't worth Kinsler by himself.

If that’s what they want, fuck ’em.

Jimmy Johnson for GM.

by TXHC on Dec 22, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I think they like Matsui

they gave him a pretty sizeable contract being fully aware of his skillset, and he hasn’t exactly disappointed.

It’s too bad we don’t have a young C or SS to spare…

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Matsui was butt ass terrible last year.

Good in ’08, though.

What Houston does is a mystery to me, though.

They’re right up there with the White Sox in terms of making moves I just don’t understand.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Bourne is a damn fine player.

Good CF defender who really blossomed last year, although iirc some of the hitting numbers were built on a ridiculously fast start and a high babip (even for a fast guy).

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I can't see how drayton would trade him to the Rangers though

I think he’s untouchable from the Rangers POV.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 22, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a good point.

For whatever reason he seems to hate the Rangers.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

They'll have a new owner to deal with soon enough

Trade for Pence in ’10 offseason? Maybe.

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.

by Rodney on Dec 22, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

do you really think

an owner would step in and prevent his team from making a trade that undoubtedly improves him team on paper just because he hates the other franchise? Has that ever happened before?

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Strong rumor is

He killed the three-way trade that would have put Oswalt in Arlington.

So yes.

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.

by Rodney on Dec 22, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

The Yanks and Red Sox used to this, supposedly.

Back when Steinbrenner was at his most crazed you’d hear rumor of this from time to time.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

they just have so many holes

they really match up well as trade partners. Would McCarthy, CJ and Murphy be too much to give up? Not enough?

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd do that trade in a second.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Absolutely

And Houston is so shitty it might make actually make sense for them to move Pence for a package like that.

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Dec 22, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd throw in something else if they wanted.

Pence is pretty darn good and would solve a lot of our problems.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

This is Houston

Land of Drayton McLane.
Pence is one of his boys, is a native Texan, and is important to their team core.

I seriously doubt we’d have any luck prying Pence away without overpaying for him.

by Trickman on Dec 22, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

but...

we would be offering Murphy, another native Texas AND a Baylor alum, where McLane is on the university board.

I’m kidding. Sort of.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

If we could make that trade happen

I would love it.

Pence would be excellent defense in LF for us, would allow Hamilton to DH more frequently, provides us a backup CF that isn’t Hamilton, and would be a very nice #6/#7 batter (decent OBP, decent speed, some power).

I just don’t see Houston trading someone they drafted and produced for Murph (even though he’s from Baylor), CJ, and McCarthy.

If I were Houston and I were logical, I would take that trade as it improves my team — but if Houston were logical they would’ve sold their pieces a year or two ago as age was starting to really weigh in instead of buying Tejada at an insane price.

by Trickman on Dec 22, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Pence would be a tough sell for Houston to get rid of.

The Fans LOVE this guy. He’s home grown and from Texas. He’s building a fan base like Pudge did in Arlington. It would be very tough for McLane to pitch the idea of getting rid of Hunter.

But he would be a great pick up if we could get him for Cj, Murphy, and Brandon. I mean, Hunter Pence. If that name doesn’t blast “grittynessity” I don’t know what does.

Give me team chemistry and emotion over stats any day. Do you think 34,000 Ranger fans were screaming their asses off over Pudge and his .275 OBP?

by AceJC on Dec 22, 2009 6:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Hunter Pence

that guy has come a long way from the singles hitting bottom of the order guy at Arlington High…

"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)

by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 23, 2009 9:00 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm guessing Oliver will pitch okay next year

although he’s never pitched well in Texas (numbers were consistent even after his late 30s renaissance).

Given our position, this seems like an extravagance that we can’t afford when we have other more pressing and glaring weaknesses.

The OBP problem hasn’t been fixed since Bradley left. Hoping it would fix itself internally didn’t work last year, it killed us at the most important time of year and a batting coach lost his job because of it. That same strategy is doomed to failure if JD leans on it again. Signing Darren Oliver by itself doesn’t fix the OBP problem and we’re told that there are very limited resources left.

If you really wanna convince the fans that you’re serious about contending (a move like signing a 39 year old Oliver points in that direction), you need to get a legitimate hitter to stick in the middle of this line-up and not some bullshit like Mike Lowell or Ryan Garko.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 22, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Got some good questions to ask JD, it sounds.

I still tend to think they had $3M-ish to work with. They made a list of their top DH target for that price, couldn’t get it, moved onto their top BP target at that price with the mindset that if they can’t improve the offense they better beef up the pitching.

The market for Garko/Delgado/Gomes will heat up after some other things get settled. Folks are still thinking about Glaus and, apparently, high-end pitching.

Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.

by rooster on Dec 22, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Concur

The economy has sucked for almost two years, revenue is way down for a bunch of clubs, and no one is spending money this year. What a terrible time to be one of the names you listed…heck, only 16 of the top 50 FAs have signed, and it’s almost Christmas?

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.

by Rodney on Dec 22, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Not an impressive list of choices...

for a contender.

Glaus had 29 AB’s last year.

by 3Bagger on Dec 22, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd actually be really excited if we grabbed Thome and, say, Reed Johnson or Johnny Gomes.

I love Jim Thome and I think he’d be a fantastic fit for both this ballpark and this team. He sees a ton of pitches and hits for power.

He’s no longer very effective versus LHP (.743 OPS/LHP in ‘09 vs. .883/ RHP), but when you’re on a budget as tight as ours, you’re gonna have to accept some warts.

Johnson or Gomes could backup DH, 1b and LF.

I’d feel pretty good about that, actually.

And I think we could grab Thome and Johnson for a pretty reasonable price given this market.

How many pretty much full time DH jobs are out there for Thome to sift through?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

reply

I like Reed Johnson.

PS…I usually agree with your take, and humor, ALMOST 100% of the time.

But. Does Thome not seem like some HGH-Roid hangover? So, he may have a season left. But? What if his Doctor can’t beat the system in 2010? That’s my only concern there.

by 3Bagger on Dec 22, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think so

he’s been pretty consistent throughout his career

We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.

by sprite on Dec 22, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Thome is the DH I've been hoping we could attract. I know he can't really hit lefties, but

if you believe a veteran guy can pass along lessons to younger hitters in being patient at the plate, Thome is your man.

I’ve felt conflicted over wanting him here. I know he has the leadership qualities Wash/Hurdle will look for in a veteran, but he still doesn’t solve the problem of how poorly the Ranger hit against LHP. If the team were unconstrained, probably either Adrian Beltre or Mark DeRosa would be the best bet on the FA market.

What about Ankiel rather than Reed?

Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.

by rooster on Dec 22, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I looked at Ankiel the other day

What happened to him? His offense and defense both fell off a very steep cliff last year.

What a drag it is being broke.

by tricer on Dec 22, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe

Players have bad, out of character, seasons all the time, but how often do you see a 29/30 year old lose 52 points of OBP, 119 points of slugging, and 28 runs worth of defense (according to UZR/150) in one season?

That’s just an astounding dropoff in every facet of his game over the course of one season to the next.

What a drag it is being broke.

by tricer on Dec 22, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Didn't he have some sort of horrific runin with an outfield wall at some point in late '08 or early '09?

I seem to recall it being pretty gnarly.

And the sort of neck/back injuries that can result from such things can linger and really hurt a guy in all facets of the game.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

hmm, didn't know about that

But yeah, that would explain it.

What a drag it is being broke.

by tricer on Dec 22, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Yah, I checked.

Pretty grisly.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

ouch

watching that replay, what is the proper baseball etiquette for the baserunner in that situation? Seems almost cruel to keep motoring around the bases while a guy is laying paralyzed on the warning track, but I guess that’s what you’ve got to do.

What a drag it is being broke.

by tricer on Dec 22, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Heh, yah you gotta keep motoring.

And that injury is the kind of thing that could really seep into all aspects of your game, you know?

Nothing severe enough for the team to demand he go on the DL, but enough full body/spine/neck pain that he’s limited and ends up playing like shit trying to gut it out through a pennant race/contract year.

Assuming that’s true and that a full winter of rest heals those ailments, he might be a good bounceback bet in ’10.

Supposedly he still thinks he should get paid, though.

But it’s early yet and what guys want and what they get are often very different things in the end.

Guess we’ll see.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I've always liked watching Ankiel

Pretty incredible athlete, and as you can see in that highlight, he can go get ’em in CF.

What a drag it is being broke.

by tricer on Dec 22, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you Will Leitch?

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Dec 22, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

No - just a working stiff in Ft Worth

but I’m flattered, I guess.

Seems kinda random, why do you ask that?

What a drag it is being broke.

by tricer on Dec 22, 2009 4:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Just giving you shit

Wasn’t very clever, Ankiel is Leitch’s man crush.

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Dec 22, 2009 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Ankiel and the FA market

Seems like his value is tied to being a CF and I think there is only one team (Cubs) looking to sign a CF now, and a few of them on the market.

What a drag it is being broke.

by tricer on Dec 22, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the way the bill of the cap is folded up after he hit the wall says it all.

"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz

"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis

by Cecilio's Guante on Dec 22, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually I remember that, yeah he did.

It was ’09. Ran full speed into the wall head first and screwed his neck up pretty good if I remember right.

Jimmy Johnson for GM.

by TXHC on Dec 22, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Ah, just saw your reply above.

Yep, that’s the one.

Jimmy Johnson for GM.

by TXHC on Dec 22, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Thome can't hit lefties?

You’d probably have a hard time convincing Derek Holland of that.

by twinkilling on Dec 23, 2009 9:21 AM CST up reply actions  

you'd rather have Thome than Glaus?

or is this taking money into account? and if so, how much are you projecting those guys to get?

The thing is, Glaus has a history of destroying lefties (as does Dye) and he can step in at 1B and 3B. I don’t think this team would seriously consider Thome because I think they don’t want someone explicitly restricted to DH unless they kill lefties. And Reed Johnson is a nice enough 4th OF, but under no circumstances should he be a team’s DH or 1B.

I would rather give Glaus $5M and Kearns an NRI than give Thome $3M and Johnson $1.5M…

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

If you could guarantee health... Yah, I'd rather have Glaus even if the cost is 2mm or so more than Thome.

He’s 6 years younger, he’s a righty and he has defensive value.

Perhaps I’m putting too much stock in the severity of the shoulder problems, but that shoulder injury just scares the buh-jesus out of me.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

well he's been going around to

all the FOs proudly showing off his medical records, so it’s probably fair to assume he at least thinks he’s healthy.

Any contract he signs this year, like Xavier Nady, will almost certainly be low base plus incentives.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Kearns... now there's an interesting name.

Doesn’t exactly crush lefties, but he hits them relatively well, and he’s actually a pretty damn fine COF’er who could conceivably play 1b too, though according to fangraphs he’s never done it at the big league level.

Wonder how cheap he’d come?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

NRI cheap, I would think...

he has been absolutely horrible these past two years.

But his career OBP against lefties is still .391

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 5:20 PM CST up reply actions  

see, that's the issue

I sort of see him being a utility OF who happens to play just about every day, but it really comes down to whether he can play a passable CF and spell Borbon against lefties. Fangraphs showed him as being a slightly below average CF in ‘07 and then a great RF every year since. I wonder, though, if he would now at least be league average in CF with more experience (and perhaps not playing in Houston’s crazy CF might help).

On other days he can spell Hamilton or Cruz, allowing them to DH on occasion.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

I think that Pence would at least provide versatility

I don’t think you want to rely on Hamilton playing everyday in the field. So, if you acquired Pence, you might make Hamilton your primary DH. Borbon, Hamilton, Pence, and Cruz are all above average outfielders.

by Stephen Rushin on Dec 22, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

since the team has such limited resources, and a need at DH

I think the route to go is to find someone that doesn’t offer any defensive value. No need to have to pay for that value when all we need is a stick in the lineup.

What a drag it is being broke.

by tricer on Dec 22, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

sorta like buying a 4WD vehicle to drive up and down the freeway

No big deal if you can afford it, but on a tight budget there is no real need to spend the extra money for a feature that isn’t really needed.

What a drag it is being broke.

by tricer on Dec 22, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I think there is some logic to getting a versatile DH

There are defensive questions about Julio Borbon, and Hamilton has been extremely injury prone over his career. If you have a DH like Pence, he could fill in for Hamilton whenever he inevitably gets injured. And worse case scenario, Pence is a passable CFer for a short period of time if Borbon gets hurt.

But your point is very valid. And I think it is especially true when it comes to the free agent market.

by Stephen Rushin on Dec 22, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

so take the glaus signing out of the equation

and sub in a cheaper option like Gomes or even Sheffield (but probably someone who can play 1B, so maybe Tatis or Garko?)

Trading a package of Murphy, CJ and ____ for Pence is cost nuetral, I think, and lessens the need for a larger cash outlay for a guy like Dye or Glaus. Plus, in this (admittedly ideal) scenario, we aren’t really trading anyone we would miss.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I admit that I'm biased in this whole thing

because I love watching Pence play the game. So I am probably forcing something here.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Also

I think some of the remaining RP options (i.e. Kiko Calero) are more attractive than the remaining DH options (Dye, Thome, Glaus, Garko). In that way, I could see a scenario where it makes sense to trade for a player like Pence and sign someone like Calero to replace Wilson in the bullpen.

by Stephen Rushin on Dec 22, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

potential roster, lineups

vs LHP
Andrus SS
Young 3B
Kinsler 2B
Cruz RF
Hamilton LF
Pence CF
Garko DH
Davis 1B
Salty C

vs RHP
Borbon CF
Kinsler 2B
Young 3B
Cruz RF
Hamilton DH
Pence LF
Davis 1B
Salty C
Andrus SS

Roster (position players)
Borbon
Pence
Cruz
Hamilton
Kearns/Boggs
Davis
Kinsler
Young
Salty
Bard
Andrus
German/Inglett/Arias
Garko

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I think it'd be great to find a way to sign

Sheffield, Vlad and Thome and have them battle it out; although that could very well kill all three of them.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Dec 22, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

We have a lot of the same talent

he had in 2008 still here although Tiny E & Cruz have been added to the mix for an upgrade.

The defense (and consequently the pitching) is much better in 2008 – just go get that replacement middle of the order bad MF that is a primary DH who we gave up that was so instrumental in This Thing scoring 901 runs.

That player is not Tatis, Garko or Lowell.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 22, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Should read...."The defense (and consequently the pitching) is much

better than it was in 2008."

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 22, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

So your are giving credit to JD

for improving the defense by moving FFace to 3rd and bringing up Elvis who was obviously not ready for The Show. And I don’t give a flying fuck what FFace thinks about JD because he isn’t the GM and This Thing is better with him at 3b. The room doesn’t have to like JD as long as they are winning and that is what they have been doing the last two years and they are getting better.

2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009

by boomer1 on Dec 22, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

JD gets credit

for everything that happened here from October ’05 thru late July ’08…the evening Nolan fired the pitching coaches that JD assembled.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 22, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't even bother twin

2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009

by boomer1 on Dec 22, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

You can't reason with Josey

He has Grandpa Urines butt plug so far up his ass he can’t think straight.

2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009

by boomer1 on Dec 22, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

JD brought back Mark Connor

in 2006, 2007 and 2008.

Nolan fired his ass.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"

"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09

by Josey Wales on Dec 22, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Josey

Did JD kill your dog and set fire to your car? You can’t even acknowledge when JD has done something good. Yes you give him DOD but he has done more right than just that and it had nothing to do with Nolan. Has JD had some bad trades? You bet he has just like every other GM and on top of that he had to work around Hicks and all his stupid shit. Name me on GM that has never made a bad trade?

2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009

by boomer1 on Dec 22, 2009 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

You can't reason with Josey

 He has Grandpa Urines butt plug so far up his ass he can’t think straight.

 by boomer1 on Dec 22, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

by twinkilling on Dec 23, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions  

uh

Opening day, 2008 saw the following defensive alignment:

C Gerald Laird
1B Ben Broussard
2B Ian Kinsler
3B Hank Blalock
SS Michael Young
LF David Murphy
CF Josh Hamilton
RF Marlon Byrd
DH Milton Bradley

The first 5 starters for the team were:
Kevin Milwood
Vincente Padilla
Jason Jennings
Kason Gabbard
Luis Mendoza

Appearing in the bullpen during that first two weeks were:
Kaz Fukumori, Franklyn German, Eddie Guardado, Joaquin Benoit,
CJ Wilson, Jaret Wright, Dustin Nippert, Josh Rupe.

also appearing on the mound was Scott Feldman, who started the game after Mendoza.

Other guys who appeared defensively the first two weeks of the 2008 season include: Ramon Vazquez, Jason Botts, Frank Catalanotto, and Adam Melhuse

Those listed above who will probably be on the Rangers 25 man roster to begin 2010 are:
Ian Kinsler,
Michael Young,
David Murphy,
Josh Hamilton,
CJ Wilson,
Dustin Nippert,
and Scott Feldman.

that’s 7 out of 25, 6 are guarenteed, Nippert is a probably , and Mendoza is a “Highly doubt it” (hence his lack of inclusion).
Therefore your statement “We have a lot of the same talent” is demonstrably false. Especially in the pitching staff. 2 infielders return and 2 outfielders, but only 3 pitchers. Not to mention that we have an entirely different coaching staff now.

by iblum on Dec 22, 2009 4:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Pence

I don’t see the Astros dealing Pence to Texas, but who knows. Pence is a 3 WAR outfielder, whose value is partially derived from his fielding (9.5 and 5.5 UZR the last two seasons in RF). Bill James (for what its worth) has him at around 4 WAR next season. He is very similar in value to Nelson Cruz. Plus Pence crushes lefties (.895 OPS vs. LHP in 2009), and he is under team control through 2013.

Murphy is a 1-2 WAR outfielder, and Wilson is a 2 WAR reliever. I think the Rangers would have to throw in something else to get that done. But Houston has been pretty desperate to add pitching this off-season, as illustrated by that horrible contract given to Lyon. I could see them having interest in McCarthy, as well.

by Stephen Rushin on Dec 22, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Pence isn't coming to Texas

Houston likes him too much. They’d give us Lee in a heartbeat, but that’s about all of the assets they have left that other teams would want and that they’d be willing to part with.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Dec 22, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I know, I know it's a stupid nitpick, but
Pence isn’t coming to Texas

Houston likes him too much.

Heh.

I failed my LSB ethics test.

"WHAT A SHITLOAD OF FUCK" - LL's "Poochie" on Rich Harden signing with Texas over Seattle

by LSJ on Dec 22, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Hunter Pence hates the Rangers

Hunter Pence would never play for the Rangers. I hate Hunter Pence.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Dec 22, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Doesn't really have a choice

If his ass gets traded here. Pre-Arb players don’t really have much say in the matter.

I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.

by TheBZA on Dec 22, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

No he doesn't

I actually know the guy — went to HS with him. He’s ambivalent about the Rangers, but he doesn’t hate them.

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Dec 22, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Pence

I can’t hate the guy, simply because as a UTA alumnus, I have a hard enough time taking any pride in my school and its traditionally shitty athletic programs, and other than a few MLB spares and our wheelchair basketball team, Pence is all I got.

"To have the judgment and wisdom and personal touch of Nolan Ryan, and the tremendous group that JD has assembled, I think the Rangers on the baseball side are the envy of every franchise in baseball in terms of talent."

-- Chuck Greenberg

by RCCook on Dec 22, 2009 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

The Psych-Nursing program is good...take pride in that.

"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz

"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis

by Cecilio's Guante on Dec 22, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

UTA also played Memphis in 2008 during

March Madness. Whoopity doo da!

"BIg whoop, wanna fight about it?"

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

by lost in space on Dec 22, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

And you better believe I watched that game!

I was one of those people who was waaaaayyy too much into school spirit in high school- screaming at pep rallies & football games, etc- and my parents have no idea of the psychic damage they did to me by making me go to a school with good academics and shitty sports teams. :)

That said, I got a good education, and made a lot of friends there despite the lack of strong sports programs.

I will agree that the nursing program is top-notch, and judging by what I saw of it from the two math classes I had in the Nursing Building, they recruited more than their fair share of the hotties on campus. My brother and I used to both walk around that building muttering “Hello, Nurse!” (from Animaniacs) under our breaths on a regular basis…

"To have the judgment and wisdom and personal touch of Nolan Ryan, and the tremendous group that JD has assembled, I think the Rangers on the baseball side are the envy of every franchise in baseball in terms of talent."

-- Chuck Greenberg

by RCCook on Dec 22, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

I married a nurse thinking she'd wear one of those sassy short skirts and the hat, stockings, the whole 9..

..she fucking wears scrubs to work, I got jobbed.

"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz

"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis

by Cecilio's Guante on Dec 22, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Isn't that what Halloween is for?

and whats better is that she can even wear the costume to work that day :)

by iblum on Dec 22, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I can pretty much agree on all accounts.

"BIg whoop, wanna fight about it?"

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

by lost in space on Dec 22, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Can't forget good ole' Lackey.

"BIg whoop, wanna fight about it?"

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

by lost in space on Dec 22, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought Lackey went to Greyson CC.

"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz

"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis

by Cecilio's Guante on Dec 22, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions  

both

one year at UTA and then to GCC. He was drafted out of GCC after the JUCO national championship in pp.

by BHill on Dec 22, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Byrd

So looks like Atlanta has no need for Byrd now. Is there a GMJ effect going on with Marlon?

|Space for Rent|

by RangerMad on Dec 22, 2009 11:51 AM CST reply actions  

Cubs, I think.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

I see him landing with the cubs

but I read yesterday how he might not be the perfect fit because he’s right handed. They mentioned Podsenick might be a better fit cause he’s left handed can hit lead off and probably not cost as much.

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby

by shaneomac on Dec 22, 2009 12:02 PM CST up reply actions  

if the Cubs sign Podsenick instead

he’s screwed. He’ll find work, but it will be a discounted one year deal.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Please God no.

I failed my LSB ethics test.

"WHAT A SHITLOAD OF FUCK" - LL's "Poochie" on Rich Harden signing with Texas over Seattle

by LSJ on Dec 22, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Not much Byrd can do that the Cubs are morons

If they think that Podsednik will give anything near what Byrd does. Podsednik is a crappy 4th OF at best.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 22, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't mind seeing

him come back to texas on a one year discounted deal.

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby

by shaneomac on Dec 22, 2009 12:07 PM CST reply actions  

I would

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Dec 22, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Cody Ross

Anyone interested if he were available?

"if daniels was fired today, he would almost be sure to get another shot somewhere else as a GM

i dont know if you can say the same thing abotu RW" - knockoutking

by hillcrest on Dec 22, 2009 12:43 PM CST reply actions  

I'm weary

where did that year last year come from?

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

huh?

he was better in 08 and much better in a partial 07
but he can’t keep up a decent obp as a full time player.

he’d be a good lefty masher to bring in but that role probably isn’t worth what it would take to get him.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DShep on Dec 22, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions  

hmm

I obviously haven’t been following the career of Cody Ross very closely.

I don’t like the walk rate, so it would depend on the price.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Cheap

Just thinking he’d be a very cheap alternative to what we have floating around as compliments to Murphy in the 4th OF/DH role. Limit his exposure, he’s still under team control for 2 years I believe. Probably wouldn’t cost TOO much. Harrison, Povada and fodder.

"if daniels was fired today, he would almost be sure to get another shot somewhere else as a GM

i dont know if you can say the same thing abotu RW" - knockoutking

by hillcrest on Dec 22, 2009 4:05 PM CST up reply actions  

doubt he'd be that cheap

He’s Florida’s starting CF.

What a drag it is being broke.

by tricer on Dec 22, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Understandable...

but he is about to start making over $3 million a year, which FL just can’t stomach in recent history.

"if daniels was fired today, he would almost be sure to get another shot somewhere else as a GM

i dont know if you can say the same thing abotu RW" - knockoutking

by hillcrest on Dec 22, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Halos talking with Rodney
The Angels are in serious discussions with free agent reliever Fernando Rodney, reports ESPN’s Jayson Stark. The Angels are a nice match for Rodney, as the number of teams with closing opportunities is dwindling. The Angels are already on the hook for $9MM for Brian Fuentes next year, but if they bump him to a setup role they can prevent his 2011 option from vesting.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

|Space for Rent|

by RangerMad on Dec 22, 2009 1:24 PM CST reply actions  

Saw that

That pen could explode at the end of games this year if they get him to go along with Fuentes.

2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009

by boomer1 on Dec 22, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

that'd be a good way for them to spend some money

from a rangers perspective.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DShep on Dec 22, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm agree

I’d like to see the Angels sign up for 3 years of the Rodney.

Of course, it would help us even more if we had hitters that were patient enough to let Rodney hand ’em a free pass to first.

What a drag it is being broke.

by tricer on Dec 22, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

hmm
The Phillies’ interest is in Fernando Rodney, at two years and $12 million. Set-up guy, plus safety net for Brad Lidge.

Twitter Link

I hope the Angels tie up 2 years and 12M, or more, in Rodney.

by BHill on Dec 22, 2009 7:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Huh?

Must be my agent…I haven’t heard a word :)

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.

by Rodney on Dec 22, 2009 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Bastard is probably stealing all your money as well

2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009

by boomer1 on Dec 22, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

CJ

I don’t think trading him is a good idea.

Francisco isn’t reliance enough to be the closer with our next best option being Darren Oliver or Darren O’Day.

In fact, I would go into the season with CJ and Francisco sharing the closer role, depending on the situation, who had pitched the day before, etc.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 22, 2009 2:41 PM CST reply actions  

if Frankie isn't getting it done

Feliz is the man.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Probably right

As much as we want him to be a starter if Frankie has problems Wash will slide Happy right into that roll.

2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009

by boomer1 on Dec 22, 2009 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

having a Francisco Rodriguez like closer

to go with Andrus, Salty and Harrison wouldn’t be a horrible showing for that trade.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 2:53 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Feliz would put K-Rod to shame if he ended up as a closer.

I still want to see him start though.

Jimmy Johnson for GM.

by TXHC on Dec 22, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd HATE to see us turn Feliz into a reliever long term just cause we need a closer in '10.

And make no mistake about it, if Feliz is given the closers job, he ain’t giving it up.

He’s butt ass filthy.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep, if he's given the closer's job, that's where he is staying.

Nobody is taking it from him. You would have to bring in somebody like like Broxton or K-Rod to even try to do better than Feliz.

Jimmy Johnson for GM.

by TXHC on Dec 22, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I have no problem with Feliz as a reliever this year

Not sure I want Warsh running him out there in the bottom of the ninth 4 days out of 5, which would likely happen at some point if he was given the closer’s role.

What a drag it is being broke.

by tricer on Dec 22, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Feliz

I would hate to see him as the closer. I don’t think we want to be running him out there on back-to-back days as a 21-year old, and once he’s the closer, he’s probably not going back to the rotation mid-season. Given that starters are more valuable than relievers, that’s not a good use of his talent.

I would prefer to give Wilson a shot at starting, actually, but given the current make-up of the staff, I think using him in the 8th and 9th innings makes the most sense, particularly given what we have seen from Francisco.

by Darrell McKown on Dec 22, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions  

the only starters

worth more than elite, shut down closers are TORPs.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Dec 22, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

That's the thing, I still think Feliz can be that type of starter.

Which is why I hope they don’t just convert him to closer without even giving him a shot at starting. From everything I’ve heard though, that’s the plan is to give him every opportunity to start so I have no reason to be mad yet.

Jimmy Johnson for GM.

by TXHC on Dec 22, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Depends on who you ask on that one.

According to Fangraphs’ “Value” stat, you have to pass 51 starters before you get to the first reliever on their list (Jon Broxton), passing on studs as Dallas Braden, Nick Blackburn and our very own Feldman… From Across The Hall.

Personally I tend to think the value of a true shut down closer is one of the things that stats don’t really capture all that well in terms of how important they are to winning championships… but that’s probably what Gerry Fraley says about batting average and “being a gamer”, so maybe I should STFU.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You like Castlevania, don't you?" -Psycho Mantis.

by thedirkatron on Dec 22, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

According to BP

The most valuable reliever was Mariano Rivera (because they include “leverage” which measures how important a given out is to winning the game).

He trailed only 9 other pitchers in the majors: Greinke, Haren, Halladay, Vazquez, Ubaldo Jimenez, Weedy Tim, Josh Johnson, Jair Jurgens, Chris Carpenter, and Adam Wainright.

by iblum on Dec 22, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Guardado heading to the Nationals?

I thought he wanted to retire.

The Nationals are nearing a one-year deal with lefty reliever Eddie Guardado, reports Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. Morosi notes that the signing won’t affect the Nats’ pursuit of Matt Capps

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

|Space for Rent|

by RangerMad on Dec 22, 2009 7:15 PM CST reply actions  

Not only did he want to retire

but he also wanted to go somewhere on the West Coast.
Poor Eddie. He can’t buy a break. Or he has an agent that is as bad at listening to him as my wife is at listening to me.

Give me team chemistry and emotion over stats any day. Do you think 34,000 Ranger fans were screaming their asses off over Pudge and his .275 OBP?

by AceJC on Dec 22, 2009 11:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Good bye Mofo

"There are two girls that can take a pounding!" Tom Grieve

by Spadedsnake on Dec 22, 2009 11:03 PM CST reply actions  

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