Monday morning Rangers things
Very nice performance last night by that other team in Arlington, clinching a playoff berth.
Slow day on the Rangers news front.
Richard Durrett says he wants Jon Garland here. BBTiA analyzes the Garland situation.
And that's about it this morning.
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176 comments
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Comments
so is it pretty much a given
that Garland = no Holland in the rotation?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 28, 2009 9:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
It could be McCarthy
and there’s also a chance if he signs we trade some of our pitching depth for a bat. Still I’d be ok with Holland refining his control in the minors as starter for a few months.
by MikeEl on Dec 28, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I concur, you would think if we sign Garland that opens up a trade of a Hunter/BMac type
I thought it be all warm and shitty, but it just tasted like normal beer. It was still cold.
by RA Dickey on Dec 28, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
x
I would hate to give up Hunter for some unspecified bat. I think the young man is just coming into his own and I am rooting for a spectacular year in 2010 at the BPiA.
I soloed in the Mile High Club!
by horsedooty on Dec 28, 2009 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To me, Hunter is the type of guy
I want to keep around unless someone calls with a tremendous offer. I just think he’s got a lot of plus, especially with how fast he has adapted to the bigs
by texasraider on Dec 28, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I am pretty bullish on Hunter
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 28, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it would be pretty stupid to trade Tommy Hunter
unless you get back a middle of the order bat that you control for ~4 years.
|Space for Rent|
by RangerMad on Dec 28, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't think Hunter is going to maintain the success he had last year
He’s an ideal sell high candidate.
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
by sprite on Dec 28, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
i’m not in a rush to get rid of him, but if the team with the bat I want says hunter as part of the deal or no deal, I’d be ok with it.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Dec 28, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
of course
but it depends on the bat we get back and what else we have to give up
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 28, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
5 seasons of Hunter is pretty valuable
Even if you are betting that he regresses some. I’d move him in the right deal, but I’d need an impact bat coming back.
What a drag it is being broke.
by tricer on Dec 28, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe we still have six seasons of team control left on him.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"Don't let the haircut fool you. I'm exceedingly wealthy." -Bill Gates.
by thedirkatron on Dec 28, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If given the choice, and assuming an equal return...
would you rather deal CJ or Hunter?
What a drag it is being broke.
by tricer on Dec 28, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hunter
CJ Wilson is a much better pitcher than he’s given credit for here.
by Darrell McKown on Dec 28, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IMO
I would trade wilson over hunter. Hunter is controlled longer and I think Hunter will be able to provide as much if not more than wilson could in the rotation. I like wilson and I agree he’s not given the credit as Darrel mentioned but to me it’s not even close who I would rather keep between the 2
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
by shaneomac on Dec 28, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He is very good at getting LHB, righties not so much
I think I’d rather deal 2 years of the reliever rather than 5 of the starter.
What a drag it is being broke.
by tricer on Dec 28, 2009 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
correcting myself
Last year his splits vs RHB were pretty good. Allowed righties only .249 / .329 / .373.
What a drag it is being broke.
by tricer on Dec 28, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A 2.89 FIP last year overall.
Yah, he was really freaking good.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"Don't let the haircut fool you. I'm exceedingly wealthy." -Bill Gates.
by thedirkatron on Dec 28, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is a interesting question
I would have to go with Hunter
by Triple Play on Dec 28, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Deal CJ.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by Chase Irwin on Dec 28, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hah.
If you can get his ass off the couch. Lol.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by Chase Irwin on Dec 28, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
CJ's service time might be the deciding factor there
6 years of a starter vs 3 (2?) years of a reliever weighs pretty heavily even if I like CJ a lot more in his role (and i do).
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Dec 28, 2009 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2 years before FA for CJ
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 28, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
CJ
A LAIE with 5 years control >>>> a 8th inning reliever with 2 years control.
|Space for Rent|
by RangerMad on Dec 28, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
CJ was one of the best relievers in all of baseball last year, and we have 6 years of team control on Hunter, I believe.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"Don't let the haircut fool you. I'm exceedingly wealthy." -Bill Gates.
by thedirkatron on Dec 28, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
WHY?
That is about as prescient as saying: “I think Hunter will either be better or be worse next year….”
by Goyogringo on Dec 28, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's really not
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
by sprite on Dec 28, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the idea that
McCarthy has any real trade value is really a joke. Can we put this to rest already?
by Goyogringo on Dec 28, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
I think it means McCarthy or Hunter is traded. Garland is far more durable than McCarthy, although they have similar upsides. Hunter’s value is at its highest right now and he could probably be swapped for a decent RH bat. In any event, I think this organization fully intends to start next season with Holland in the rotation. And of course, Holland’s advanced numbers (FIP, xFIP) were reasonably strong last season.
by Stephen Rushin on Dec 28, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And one more thing...
If you add someone like Garland, it makes more sense to replace McCarthy than Holland. Garland gives you a more durable version of McCarthy. Garland sets a floor in durability and production. But Holland has a much higher ceiling. If you add durability in one spot in the rotation, I think the team would feel more comfortable using a higher risk/higher upside pitcher like Holland in the other spot.
by Stephen Rushin on Dec 28, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
replacing McCarthy
is probably a smart move since there is a 60-70% chance he’ll get injured in spring training anyway.
That said, I like Holland’s ceiling, but I’m almost completely certain that he was rushed last year. If the team can build a good rotation and keep Holland and Feliz in AAA for at least the start of the season, I have no problem with that. I want Holland to be in the rotation when he’s ready to start dominating major league hitters, not because we need someone to fill a spot.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Dec 28, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he changed his release point.
I haven’t looked at the before / after enough, but I would say it is quite early to write off B-MAC.
I agree with the logic of using Garland to replace him, but McCarthy simply needs to prove his health. And someone will give him that opportunity.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by Chase Irwin on Dec 28, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we rushed Holland at all
I think he showed flashes of brilliance, and in a rookie year, that’s all you can really hope for. This is the year that, with all of the valuable experience he gained last year, we see if he was brought up too early or not. I expect a pretty solid year, with a bit more consistency, and then a very strong 2011 from him.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 28, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He was only rushed
if he didn’t learn anything from his mistakes and didn’t make any adjustments since then.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 28, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So lets bring up MArtin Perez right now right
I mean as long as he learns from his mistakes and makes adjustments then just bring up all our top prospects
Holland was rushed. 30 innings above A ball is rushing a guy. Could he stay in the majors and never have to see the minors again…sure he seems like the type of kid who can ride out adversity. But would starting Holland off in the minors kill him or the Rangers…not at all
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 28, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Holland has 4 years on Perez
Bringing up Holland as a 22 year old isn’t the same as bringing up an 18/19 year old.
Holland had a K/9 of 7.0 with a 3.1 BB/9. That’s a great ratio to have and when you look at some of the starts he had, its pretty clear to me that he wasn’t being rushed regardless of how much experience he had over A+. He still had things to learn and wasn’t a finished product, but you can’t always wait for your pitchers to be perfect before reaching the Majors. Most of the time, it takes some disaster outings in the Majors to teach young pitchers what they need to work on.
It never hurts a prospect to keep them in the minors longer, but its not always necessary. If Holland is ready to take that next step in his development, why would you leave him in the minors to make minor league hitters look silly?
And also a preemptive spare me on a player’s contract status. What is best for the development of the player should come before trying to sneak in an extra year of control of a player. There are a few exceptions to that, but Holland isn’t one of them.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 28, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Holland was brought before he was ready.
by swampdonkey on Dec 28, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
According to who?
What made him not ready to start taking his lumps in the Majors?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 28, 2009 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you F'n watch him?
it was pretty damn clear that he had little more than a fastball that was major league quality. And even that lacked the command he needed to keep it in the park. if you think Holland was ready last season, I have a little sister that should be on the opening day roster in 2010.
by swampdonkey on Dec 28, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does your little sister throw mid to upper 90s heat from the left side?
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Dec 28, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
umm

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 28, 2009 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You might start by doing more than making a statement that the facts (stats) don't support.
by swampdonkey on Dec 28, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The facts support my statement pretty well
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 28, 2009 9:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The facts support that he should be very good in the future
But it does nothing to say he wasn’t rushed in 2009. In your second link it mentions a comparison to John Danks. The White Sox have stated publicly that they rushed Danks and he should have started his first season in the minors for a little while.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 28, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What is your definition of the term "rushed"
You keep saying that he was rushed but that its not a bad thing or won’t hurt him in the future.
Was Holland brought through the system quickly? Yes, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t ready for the Majors and his performance last year was proof that his 2009 season was just another step in his development towards becoming the great pitcher we all hope he will be.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 28, 2009 11:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
rushed
I think had he spent another month or so in the minors he could have come up and given us better than a 6+ ERA. His peripherals suggest he could and suggest he will improve in the future.
Im not down on Holland only pointing out that he probably needed to spend a little more time in the minors last year.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 29, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His peripherals suggest
that he pitched better than his ERA reflected.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 29, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, according to bigsteve
his ERA suggests that he pitched worse than his peripherals suggested.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 29, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But he actually didn't
He allowed alot of runs which is the ultimate goal of a pitcher to not allow runs no matter how you do it
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 29, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tommy Hanson 2.89, Rick Porcello 3.96, Derek Holland 6.12
Guess which one was rushed! Here’s a hint, it’s the guy who had a 6 ERA in June and still had a 6 ERA at the end of the season.
by swampdonkey on Dec 29, 2009 12:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So...
you’re telling me Rick Porcello wasn’t rushed?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Dec 29, 2009 12:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Congratulations
You are out-Steving BigSteve.
P.S. I love when people use ERA on its own here and actually believe that they are giving you a statistical argument
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 29, 2009 12:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
In this case, it is pretty useless, but I think there are times when it’s still a decent, though clearly flawed, metric. But not one dumb, short season, and not one tiny point in that season.
by brettgardner on Dec 29, 2009 12:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dumbass
Holland’s xFIP was 4.38, while Hanson’s was 4.03 and Porcello’s was 4.32. None of them seem rushed to me. ERA is a terrible way to evaluate a pitcher’s performance. xFIP suggests he was better than his ERA indicated, and the words and actions of his teammates, coaches, and front office also indicate that.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 29, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They suggest he SHOULD have been better than his ERA
But he wasn’t. Spending a little more time in the minors may have helped lower his ERA down to the level of his xFIP and FIP and tRA and all those other advanced stats.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 29, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Would you really have traded...
a lower ERA for Holland and more time in the minors for less development (and perhaps a couple fewer great starts) in the bigs?
I think you’re getting way too caught up in ERA for a kid that made his ML debut and showed good to great stuff at times. I really could care less what his ERA was in ‘09. I know what I saw, and it looked very good. I’m glad he was up as long as he was and took some bumps this year.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Dec 29, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He could have gotten the development in the minors
Thats what the minors are for. And yes I would have traded a month of Holland in the majors for the Rangers struggling for having Holland in the minors and when he came up he struggled less. I don’t think that month is going to make or break anything.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 29, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You can't get...
ML experience in the minors. I’m glad he got as much of that this year as he did.
Just because he spends an extra month in the minors doesn’t mean he would have struggled less when he came up to the bigs. That’s what you’re missing here. He likely would have struggled just as much. Many pitchers struggle when they first jump from AAA to the bigs. That’s just the reality of it. It doesn’t matter how long they spend developing in the minors.
If that month doesn’t make or break anything I don’t see why you continue to say he was rushed. 3 or 4 more starts in the minors and he wouldn’t have been rushed? That doesn’t make much sense.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Dec 29, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Theres more to it than just the ML experience
Learning how to pitch to advanced hitters. He had 5 starts above A ball. Hitters in A ball are nowhere near the hitters that are in AAA and the majors. That was one of the biggest problems I remember with Holland last year was when he would get behind in the count he would groove a fastball. You can do that in A ball and get away with it when you have his kind of stuff. But you do that in the majors and they hit it a long way. A couple of more starts in AAA may have helped him learn that lesson in an environment where wins and losses aren’t the first priority.
Do you think if we had brought Feliz up in April he wouldn’t have been rushed? He was brought up in August so you are talking about an extra 3 months in the minors.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 29, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They did make some mistakes with him
but pitching in the majors wasn’t one of them
by Goyogringo on Dec 28, 2009 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he could have used a little more AAA time
I don’t know how much it would have helped last year but I think it would help him out going into 2010 if he was a bit more polished when he came up last year
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 28, 2009 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate the term "rushed".
Technically you’re right: He was brought along quickly.
But when people say a guy was rushed it almost always seem to imply he was brought along too quickly and that hurt his development, when that’s not always the case.
However, you have a point about only 30 innings above A ball not being enough….
Obviously 31 is the right amount.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"Don't let the haircut fool you. I'm exceedingly wealthy." -Bill Gates.
by thedirkatron on Dec 28, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't understand why people are getting so defensive
The kid was rushed. Thats nothing necessarily bad on him. I haven’t said anything about it affecting his future performance or long term ceiling. But last year I don’t think theres much argument against the fact he was rushed. I think ideally the Rangers would like for there to be 5 quality starters in spring and them being able to send Holland down to AAA for a little while. They won’t ever come out and say that because thats not the good thing to do but I bet its what they would like to happen.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 28, 2009 6:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn't rushed
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 28, 2009 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes he was
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 28, 2009 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ugh.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by Chase Irwin on Dec 28, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I might be wrong and this is from memory
but wasn’t Holland pretty much brought up due to injuries to the rotation?
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
by WyoRanger on Dec 28, 2009 7:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe so
Because he went to the pen first. I thought he was brought up because he had waited just long enough in the minors to not burn a full year of service time
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 28, 2009 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we all admire you for your vapid earnestness Bs
I promise.
As a brief “reaction” if you will:
A. I must have missed the Holland “was rushed” queue when he was dealing 98 during his debut. So we must all ask ourselves: if a tree fell in the forest and only Bs heard the sound of its crash, and Bs could muster nary a soul to confirm it, but in fact claiming that there were those who could confirm it, but refused to do so for innumerable and obvious reasons that he need not repeat here, did the tree actually make a sound?
B. if you find yourself in a loop where Bigsteve is both the beginning and the end, there are 4 possible explanations and only one solution (sign out): 1. you are in purgatory, dead in fact, but in the worst kind of liminal state, where Bigsteve forever whispers errant baseball logic your ears. 2. you are Sisyphus, forever pushing Bigstevey up a hill 3. (catching my breath) you are fumbling for the door in ‘No exit" or “Waiting for Godot” and it is not a dream 4. you are dead/alive (good movie, sadly, note the recurrent motif – you are dead), in a Nietzschean ’eternal return’, where BigSteve is the Ubermensche, bending time and space, and you are not.
C. You find the interview in which JD or Maddux state flat out that many on the staff thought holland had earned a spot out of spring training but they elected to go with a vet in the end.
by Goyogringo on Dec 28, 2009 7:22 PM CST up reply actions 9 recs
rec
And how dare I argue with Goyo I mean he has a blog and everything. He must be right about everything.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 28, 2009 7:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just roll with it Bs
its good-natured ribbing, nothing more, nothing less…
by Goyogringo on Dec 28, 2009 7:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its all good
You’ve done nothing to sway me from believing Holland was rushed
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 28, 2009 7:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just because a pitcher hits 98 (fast gun) still doesn't mean he wasn't rushed.
If he doesn’t have other pitches he can consistently use to either get hitters out or at least set them up, he doesn’t belong here yet. That’s where Holland was in 2009
by swampdonkey on Dec 28, 2009 8:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
If all it took was a good fastball Feliz would have been up before Holland.
But Feliz wasn’t ready because his secondary stuff wasn’t up to par for the majors. He spent half a season in AAA and was brought up. That half season allowed him to work on those shortcomings and be better prepared when he was brought up. An extra month for Holland last year probably could have done alot of good for both he and the team.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 28, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"Don't let the haircut fool you. I'm exceedingly wealthy." -Bill Gates.
by thedirkatron on Dec 28, 2009 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
B2...
fucking brilliant.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Dec 29, 2009 12:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Countering my argument by merely re-stating your initial conculsion isn't really very awesome.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"Don't let the haircut fool you. I'm exceedingly wealthy." -Bill Gates.
by thedirkatron on Dec 28, 2009 9:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't directed solely at you
But I didn’t feel like starting a new string so I replied to you
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 28, 2009 9:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think garland could be a huge asset behind
this team’s defense and post very solid numbers.
"He do what he do" - Ron Washington
by dustinvandeman on Dec 28, 2009 10:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
He'll be behind the defense?
Like on the grass in the stands?
"You'll meet them again on their long journey to the middle." -Lester Bangs
by BAC on Dec 28, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Miguel Cabrera
Maybe they swap him for Smoak+. I’d eat that contract and if Nolan is the badass bridge from new regime to old this should be a move we can make. With Cabrera at dh we are AL co-favorites. I’m no sabrmetrician but wouldn’t he be about a 50 run difference between him and Murphy/Garko type. Isn’t that like 7 or 8 extra wins?
Or we could settle for Carlos Guillen
by WhiplashWhiteside on Dec 28, 2009 10:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Why stop at Cabrera?
We could go after Pujols too!
by MikeEl on Dec 28, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, jeez...
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"Don't let the haircut fool you. I'm exceedingly wealthy." -Bill Gates.
by thedirkatron on Dec 28, 2009 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont even think you could talk sprite into that deal!
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Dec 28, 2009 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If I'm gonna dream I dream big
With little consideration for money I’ll never know of
by WhiplashWhiteside on Dec 28, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey this bloggingtheboys website is pretty good
But does anyone know where I can find lonestarball.com?
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Dec 28, 2009 11:06 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
I think you posted in the wrong thread
There was not one cowboy comment until yours
by Triple Play on Dec 28, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh right the blog owner who posted some sort of news before rangers news for like the second sunday in a row.
But he wasn’t talking about the cowboys. He was talking about the arlington crush it’s a softball team of people who have no arms, it’s a pretty courageous story. I mean what they have to overcome is amazing.
Anyways they got a tie last night it was 00000000. The pitcher had a good game though with 27 strike outs.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Dec 28, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i would try using a combination of dove and lilac
mix that with some tepid water. And then make sure you don’t let other guys double team you on the beach.
Sand in the vag is tough.
by ab03 on Dec 28, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well I told you before you pentrated me that we should put down three sets of towels not just one.
But you were just so eager weren’t you? Rawr tiger 
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Dec 28, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When you own a blog you can give a shot out to whomever you want
by Triple Play on Dec 28, 2009 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And when I'm a member of a blog who can comment and share opinions.
I can complain about whatever I want.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Dec 28, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't it lovely?
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Dec 28, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So do you think the Cowboys are headed to the Super Bowl
by Triple Play on Dec 28, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or what do you think about Romo changing his December fortunes
by Triple Play on Dec 28, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you're barking up the wrong tree
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 28, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what about the fact that romo still has a vagina?
Fuck Mike Estabrook
by Horns130 on Dec 28, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe your mothers.
Give me team chemistry and emotion over stats any day. Do you think 34,000 Ranger fans were screaming their asses off over Pudge and his .275 OBP?
by AceJC on Dec 28, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"member of a blog"
well, I’m not sure what you did to ear membership, but I wouldn’t be so sure of your rights as a member
by ab03 on Dec 28, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
There is a long line of people that would need to be banned before me.
So I’m fairly confident in complaining about cowboy talk is well in the rights as a member.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Dec 28, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who says any of us have any rights here?
by FuturePants on Dec 28, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who says I can't get stoned? Turn off the lights and the telephone
Me and my house alone, who says I can get stoned?
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Dec 28, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm so sorry.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by Chase Irwin on Dec 28, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
alright, alright, alright.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Dec 28, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no you really can't
stop it
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 28, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Garland
After thinking about it for a day, I still just don’t get it.
by Darrell McKown on Dec 28, 2009 11:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
So the Ranger "braintrust"
believes Garland/Harden is superior to Millwood/Harden?
There has to be a trade for some kind of hitter coming down pretty soon.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
by Josey Wales on Dec 28, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Harden back to back nights would be better than garland, or millwood.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Dec 28, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well.....
I think the comparison would be something more like Garland/Oliver/Harden is better than Millwood/Harden. Garland won’t get the $9 million we saved by trading Millwood, but Garland plus Oliver may be close.
I frankly don’t think either combination makes that much sense.
by Darrell McKown on Dec 28, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Waaaaay OT
I received the Bill Simmons Book of Basketball for Christmas….if you love the NBA, it’s chicken soup for your basketball soul.
I don’t always agree with some of his evaluations, there are several Celtics he rates too high (Heinsohn, Sam Jones, Bailey Fucking Howell, Garnett) but it’s comprehensive and written very well.
It is one of the best sports books I own and I have most of the good ones.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
by Josey Wales on Dec 28, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for sharing but I think you are looking for mavsmoneyball.com
by Triple Play on Dec 28, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's the week between
Christmas & New Year’s – everything is in play.
I’m not a fan of the Cowboys but they’re starting to do one of the best 2007 NY Giants impressions I’ve ever seen. They gotta figure out 4th and short (mix in a play action pass, Garrett!!) but their QB and defense are playing exceedingly well and they also nowhave a kicker who isn’t going to kill them.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
by Josey Wales on Dec 28, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you are right about the Cowboys
And, I completely agree about the unimaginative play calling on the short yardage plays
by Triple Play on Dec 28, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
4th & short isn't really a time for imaginative play calling
Yesterday the problem was that Haynesworth was just killing Kosier, and they kept running right at him. Plus the RB formerly known as Barberian seems to pussyfoot his way to the LOS these days.
What a drag it is being broke.
by tricer on Dec 28, 2009 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed about Barberian..."pussyfoot" is the exact
word I used last night (remember Lawrence Taylor screaming at one of his teammates about pussyfooting?) and I wonder if he’s hurt.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
by Josey Wales on Dec 28, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Barber
I think the shelf life of battering ram RBs is pretty short in the NFL these days and if you look at his expiration date, I’m afraid it is past.
What a drag it is being broke.
by tricer on Dec 28, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Could be
But I think there’s still room for a Maroney-like comeback.
by brettgardner on Dec 28, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe a nagging injury is bothering him
but he just looks like he can’t get out of his own way and he doesn’t break any tackles either. There were a couple of times last night that he had the ball in his hands and huge open space in front of him, but he wasn’t fast enough to get through the hole and wasn’t powerful enough to get through the closing DB. Seems like that has been the case all year.
What a drag it is being broke.
by tricer on Dec 28, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In imaginative play calling I don't mean
a trick play or anything, but when you run straight up the middle 3 times with absolutely no success the 4th time maybe try something slightly different. Also, like you said with Haynesworth in the middle maybe try a play that goes a direction away from him.
by Triple Play on Dec 28, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't agree more with you about Garrett.
Barber up the middle every single time in that situation is not a good strategy.
Jimmy Johnson for GM.
by txhc on Dec 28, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If its such an OT post
Why did you choose to reply to a post?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Dec 28, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Simmons is hit-or-miss with me
Sometimes he has really interesting basketball thoughts, and sometimes not.
by brettgardner on Dec 28, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Would you rather have Garland and Oliver?
Or Randy Wolf, if we assume an annualized salary of ~ 10M?
I’d take Randy Wolf. I don’t expect Garland to sign for less than $5M, which means the payroll difference is negligible.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by Chase Irwin on Dec 28, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wolf had
great year last year and I actually hoped that TX might sign him to a 1yr deal as a prime breakout candidate but he had zero interest in pitching in the AL as it turned out.
Can I post an on-topic note in an OT thread populated with Wails and his ADHD younger brother Triplet…?
by Goyogringo on Dec 28, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Was that the on-topic note or are you going to post another
by Triple Play on Dec 28, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nolan on with Norm right now.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
by Josey Wales on Dec 28, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ew
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Dec 28, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Garland and Oliver vs. Wolf
I would rather have a $8-10 million hitter (or hitters), actually.
by Darrell McKown on Dec 28, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Caveat
you can trade for a hitter of $8-10M value in addition to signing a pitcher(s) to $8-10M contracts.
Still want the hitter off the FA bin?
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by Chase Irwin on Dec 28, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Way OT: More Music Talk
So I think the Dallas Morning News music editors have gone completley batshit insane (Barbara motherfucking Streisand?!..
Wow. Just……wow.
by FuturePants on Dec 28, 2009 12:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Im actually pissed that DMB did not make either list
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Dec 28, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
DMB's last album was one of the top downloaded albums via iTunes this year.
Saw that somewhere on the DMN today, too. Too lazy to go back in and find the link though.
by FuturePants on Dec 28, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good god, Brett.
If you don’t care, then just don’t reply, ass. We all know you hate me, do you need to press it on a daily basis? You are exhausting, you suck so bad.
by FuturePants on Dec 28, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What a whiny bitch.
I mean, why would you expect anything from the DMN?
And I don’t hate you. Get the fuck over yourself.
by brettgardner on Dec 28, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever you say, Gardner.
You are fixated on responding in a negative way to anything I post. You know exactly nothing about music, then complain about anything I post in that vein. It’s silly. Grow up.
by FuturePants on Dec 28, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lol.
Advice on growing up from a dude who, when he saw a baseball player he knew, could barely keep it in his pants.
I’ve replied to your music postings twice now. So stop whining.
by brettgardner on Dec 28, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When I'm done with you
I stop replying. Just like anyone else.
by brettgardner on Dec 28, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So can you hurry up and just get done?
Because your posts are devoid of content and a waste of space.
by FuturePants on Dec 28, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I am curious what it means to know nothing about music. Does that mean I don’t listen to what you do?
by brettgardner on Dec 28, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
You openly admit that you listen to no music, never know any of the bands that are discussed, and have a generally curmodgeonny attitude about such discussion.
You comlained about every band on my favorites of the decade list, but refused to even mention one single band you like or one of your favorite albums of the decade.
Until you can prove that you have an attitude other than “FuturePants’ music opinions suck,” then I can’t believe that you know anything about music. All you know is that you hate what I like, which isn’t much of an opinion. It’s just whining.
by FuturePants on Dec 28, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
If “knowing nothing about music” means I don’t listen to something, then OK, I accept that. It seems like a more accurate description, though, to say that I don’t anything about a particular era of music.
Just because I know more about a different period of music than you do doesn’t mean you don’t know anything.
by brettgardner on Dec 28, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Listen...
…when you were complaining about my lists, I kept asking you to just mention a couple of your favorites from the decade. You never did. As a result, all of your bitching is just you trying to be a rude asshole, and not an attempt to actually discuss anything.
I have no idea what your taste is or what era you know something about, because you have never made an attempt to discuss anything. All you do is insult while offering nothing, so why would I think you actually have some knowledge? Maybe you love the Rolling Stones or the Moody Blues…I have no idea because you never add anything or actually discuss.
by FuturePants on Dec 28, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have, actually.
There have been earlier discussions in which I’ve contributed some of my favorite albums.
I am largely ignorant of the music of this decade, so giving a “best of” isn’t terribly helpful.
But I did listen to many of the songs off Max’s albums—particularly the Animal Collective one, since so many have ordained that the album of the year—and for the most part I didn’t get it.
This whole discussion was premised on my belief that the DMN sucks and should never be taken seriously for anything. If you had said Rolling Stone or Pitchfork or something said XYZ is the best album, I wouldn’t have said anything.
by brettgardner on Dec 28, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
gardner would actually have to care about FP to hate him.
DeRosa going to the Giants 2 years / $ 12 mllion.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
by Josey Wales on Dec 28, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Happy talk early...
sez Ryan had 37 games where he held opponents to 2 hits or less then joked about also holding the record for walks allowed (1000 more than anybody else).
Process of sale … Letter of agreement needs to be signed and says it’s going slower than it should. Would like to be confident it will get done but he’s not.
Met Chuck G thru older son Reed.
Both he and Chuck feel a major league club should be run the same way and the goal should be to have an organization that’s consistently successful.
Nolan says the baseball department has been very creative working around the parameters they have. Feels like they can be very competitive within the budget established. Kind of hinted or hoped that MLB would help them get a player they needed…just like Tom Hicks was also player specific.
Thinks market has changed and that several players have seen their value go down meaning they won’t sign until February or early March.
JD Talk – Norm praised JD for ability to bottom-feed. Nolan talked about that (without praising or criticizing JD) and then brought up Vlad. Talked about risk with those players but upside is not having future obligations with them.
Talked about his HR’s that he hit…hit one off of Don Sutton (I saw that game). Joked about giving up dingers himself to Dierker & Hooton.
Talked about saving a game in the ’69 World Series. More surprised than anybody that Gil Hodges went to him in that particular situation.
Final game in ’93 (Seattle). Said he had a good outing in Anaheim 5 days earlier. Said his elbow was bugging him while warming up and then popped (“just like a rubber band”) during the game. Stayed in the game (thought it was an adhesion that had ripped) and then threw another 98 mph pitch before shutting it down.
Snow Monkey Talk – Laughed with Norm “I could write a book called ’Living with the Snow Monkey” and then said good-bye- “We’ll see ya on down the road, Norm.”
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
by Josey Wales on Dec 28, 2009 12:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I thought Nolan sounded VERY pessimistic
about the HSG-Greenberg deal going through. At one point I think he said that if things didn’t start progressing more quickly that his group might have to get out of the way and let somebody else try to get a deal consummated.
What a drag it is being broke.
by tricer on Dec 28, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hicks = herpes
just can’t get rid of him
|Space for Rent|
by RangerMad on Dec 28, 2009 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hicks
If you really want to get rid of Hicks, then you shouldn’t be for this deal.
I doubt if Jim Crane would allow Hicks to stick around at any ownership level.
by Darrell McKown on Dec 28, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Deal moving slow = Hicks
You have Hicks on both sides of the transaction as the controller of the seller and investor in the buyer. If things are moving slow I know who I’m blaming for that. I’m guessing he wants to slow things down to see if he can’t shake some more money out of the bidders or see if there might be another bidder out there.
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
by WyoRanger on Dec 28, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Could just be a negotiation ploy too
like getting up from the table at the car lot and saying thanks but no thanks to get the guy to drop his price…
by MikeEl on Dec 28, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They could be moving slow because of financial concerns
of the party purchasing. Or it could be taking longer than expected for the debtors to agree to the sale.
My guess is the financing wasn’t as solid as they had hoped, or hicks is not budging on things such as including the rangers parking lots with the deal.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Dec 28, 2009 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Possible but -
Shouldn’t Hicks know how solid the financing is since they’re his fellow business partners?
Tto argue against myself, with these letter agreements/offers lots of issues crop up once you start putting in all the details which could be causing issues. But I still I like to blame Hicks so I’m sticking with that.
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
by WyoRanger on Dec 28, 2009 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know how much Hicks knows about the other guys in the group.
That would be on Greenberg and to a lesser extent Nolan since they are the headliners of the group.
I imagine theres one or two guys in the investment group who are starting to have second thoughts about writing a check for a portion of the Rangers.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Dec 28, 2009 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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