Texas interested in Rich Harden
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 3, 2009 5:53 PM CST
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PrintThe Rangers, according to T.R. Sullivan, have expressed interest in Cubs righty Rich Harden, in the hopes that he could be enticed into coming to Texas on a one year incentive-laden deal.
Given Harden's injury history, it seems unlikely that he'll command a multi-year deal, but after missing most of 2006 and 2007, he was able to stick in the rotation for the majority of the 2008 and 2009 seasons, and of course, when healthy, he's got legit #1 starter stuff.
Harden is exactly the type of starting pitcher the Rangers should be looking at, if they are going to target someone. The Jon Garlands of the world, the guys who will take the ball every fifth day and give you 6 innings of mediocre performance, the Rangers don't need. They've got enough options in-house who they can roll with in the rotation that they don't need to bring someone in just to eat innings.
What the Rangers need is someone who gives them the possibility of having a true #1 starter, a guy who would pitch game 1 of a playoff series, and Harden (or Ben Sheets, another possibility), is that type of guy. Are you going to get 30 starts out of Harden? No, probably not. But if you could get 20-25 starts of high level performance from him, like he's done the past couple of years (along with 2004-05), then he offers the Rangers more value than a generic LAIE would.
Harden is, I suspect, someone who won't sign right away...but it is encouraging to see that the Rangers are in on him, because he's the ideal fit for the team, given the Rangers' financial situation and their current player makeup.
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+1
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 3, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
Harden vs. Sheets
Given the recent injury histories to both Harden and Sheets, wouldn’t Sheets require less guaranteed money? It is encouraging to see the Rangers in on Harden, but I have a feeling that there will be some team who will pay Harden more than the Rangers can offer.
by Excel Hearts Choi on Dec 3, 2009 6:01 PM CST reply actions
i agree but Harden would excite me more than Sheets
both would be nice to have here though
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
yes please
But i have very little hope.
If hes going to take a 1 year mediocre money contract, why would he take it here? Wish we had the money to give him 2 years + an option or something.
Its very depressing.
the preceding post was a great success.
That's my question, as well
Texas (and the AL) just doesn’t seem like a good place for a pitcher to come on a make-do contract while trying to better position himself for a higher dollar multi-year deal the following year.
It's not only health, but also performance
Do you think you might perform better pitching in Dodger Stadium or in Arlington?
Man sign Harden and Sheets...
Trade Millwood…sign an outfielder, bullpen piece, and a utility guy and call it an offseason.
by slimshadty12 on Dec 3, 2009 6:05 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
+1,000,000
Or however many millions it takes to make that happen. Perfect plan.
Football=Fling... Baseball=Relationship
Rangers can't get Harden
because he’s the ideal fit for the team, given the Rangers’ financial situation and their current player makeup
I’m guessing the player makeup [what exactly does that mean?] of the Rangers isn’t super unique and there are other teams without the Rangers’ financial situation. That said, I do enjoy saying and writing “Dick Harden.”
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
by WyoRanger on Dec 3, 2009 6:13 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'd jizz my pants if we signed him.
"Blister please, with those wings in your spine.
Love to be with a brother of mine.
How he'd love to find your tongue in his teeth,
In a struggle to find secret songs that you keep,
Wrapped in boxes so tight, sounding only at night as you sleep." ~Jeff Mangum; Neutral Milk Hotel
I'd just harden.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 4, 2009 12:05 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Wonder if this is one of the things JD was alluding to in his chat today
He said they would be doing something in the near future or at least that was what I took from one of his comments
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Color me unimpressed
Has this guy ever been healthy? well, at least he’s a left handed fly ball pitcher instead of a right handed fly ball pitcher. Basically, he’s a left handed Brandon McCarthy. w00t!!!!
How about calling up the Diamondbacks and making an offer for Brandon Webb? he missed last season. they’ll bite….
Or maybe the Dodgers will part with Derek Lowe. Betcha the Yankees will dump Wang on us on the cheap. How about for McCarthy?
ummm I think you have the wrong guy
Harden is not a lefty and has dominant stuff. I love McCarthy but Harden is in a whole different stratosphere compared to BMac
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Ooopss
He bats left handed, and I misread the reference page. Ok, another right handed flyball/strikeout pitcher. They don’t do well in arlington. fly balls go over the fence here, and he’s already homerprone.
Balls go over the fence in every park
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
by boomer1 on Dec 4, 2009 8:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Also
The Braves have Derek Lowe, not the Dodgers.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 3, 2009 6:27 PM CST up reply actions
Schtick? Please be schtick
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
Derek Lowe blows for the money he's making
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
And he's a brave.
of course, I can read a stat sheet. sigh….
one thing though. BABIP for pitchers is dependent on team defense, not on the quality of the pitcher (with some minor caveats). Lowe’s BABIP in 2009: .333 In 2008: .283
Lowe’s ERA in 2009: 4.67 In 2008: 3.24 Yes Atlanta is paying him lots of money and they have prospects coming up to replace him, which means you can deal for him now and get Atlanta to throw some money into the deal and come out ahead.
I'd take Lowe over Millwood in a heartbeat
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
+1 on Webb
I hope that JD at least looks into it
After Fuentes blows a save and an Angels loss to the Indians:
"Angels still in first place" - UCI Halo
"Hey you know who would have gotten those 3 outs in the 9th?
Darren O’Day." - FirebatM3
LOL
yeah
I really like webb. I think that would be a great acquisition, but I think AZ probably wants to try to compete if he’s healthy. They’d have 3 really good horses in Haren, Webb and Scherzer. They have a weak farm system though, and if their season starts to fall apart, I’d hope we would jump in a trade for him then.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I thought Scherzer was injured?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Why not just wait for him to be a free-agent next offseason then?
It wouldn’t shock me if they didn’t re-sign him.
Jimmy Johnson for GM.
Is this the most insanely incorrect post of the day?
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
by WestTxAg06 on Dec 3, 2009 7:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
A lot of competition for that award.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 3, 2009 7:27 PM CST up reply actions
That's what makes it that much worse
There are some ridiculous posts every day, but one portraying Rich Harden as some mediocre pitcher not worth our time takes the cake. Dude’s going to strike out 10 per 9, whiff almost 3 times as many as he walks, give up less than a homer per 9, and just generally all-around dominate in the starts he makes.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
Mediocre?
I’m not going to go that far. But Harden is an injury risk. And we have depth, so him going out and pitching well in 20 starts won’t kill us. but at the same time, He’s a flyball pitcher in Arlington, and that plays away from our strength (infield defense) and into our weakness (a park where flyballs to right field become homers very easily).
Oh, and he averaged 1.5 Home runs per 9 innings last year.
That may have been as a LHP but...
what did he average as a RHP?
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
A couple of comments
First, while he is a flyball pitcher, he’s not exactly a guy who pitches to contact and then ends up with a lot of flyballs, like so many of the mediocre fly-prone RHP we’ve seen in Arlington in recent years. His career K/9 is 9.4, and has been at the 11 mark the last two years. When a pitcher generates that many Ks, the grounder-fly ratio is less of an issue.
Second, he did average 1.5 HR/9 last year, but that’s almost double his career rate of 0.8. The year before that it was 0.7.
I understand your trepidation with RHPs who generate lots of flyballs, but to characterize Harden as such is slightly off base, IMO.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
I said this earlier
but I believe Harden ends up in Boston or New York. I love Harden and think he’s a great low-risk, high-reward kind of pitcher. In end, I think Sox or Yanks will top any offer we make.
Meh...
not everyone will end up in Boston or New York. Those teams want the “sure thing” FA’s. Harden is just as likely to sign a one year incentive deal with anyone.
Then if he has a great season he’ll probably end up in Boston or New York in 2011.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Boston has a recent history (Smoltz & Penny) of signing risky high-upside pitchers
and there’s got to be several more desireable locations than Texas for pitchers signing one-year deals that they hope will lead to a multi-year, big bucks deal the following season.
Injured pitchers
This is one guy who I wouldn’t mind the Rangers getting. Forget about Sheets if this guy is available and by some miracle of God they can actually sign him.
Tandem start them
over other start>? Plenty of time between starts to guarantee they stay healthy?
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
a duo/ace
maybe they could share the cy young award too in the role :)
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
co MVP of the world series
a la Unit and Bloody Sock…
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 3, 2009 8:12 PM CST up reply actions
LAIE?
Sorry for sounding stupid but what does that mean…Long average innings eater?
"Losers assemble in little groups and bitch about the coaches and the system and other players in other little groups. Winners assemble as a team."
- Bill Parcells
Question for you - what is the "current player makeup" of this team?
I seriously don’t know what that means. Some starters are young? Various options for 4th and 5th starters? Decent D? Why is Harden a good match for this particular team?
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
Harden seems like a good match...
…because this team has the depth to deal with a guy missing 5 or 10, or even 30, starts.
You’ve got a lot of meh options for the rotation right now. You figure they go into the season with a rotation of Millwood, Feldman, Hunter, Holland, and McCarthy, with Nippert in the bullpen, Harrison and Feliz and Hurley in AAA, plus some other guys floating around who could be options to start some games in 2010.
You have a lot of bodies who should be able to give you innings without embarrassing themselves…the absence of those sorts of guys would make a Jon Garland potentially more appropriate.
Since you have a lot of depth to choose from, though, you can take a chance on a guy who isn’t reliable, who you can’t count on for 30 starts (and who you could get 0 starts from), but who is a legit #1 starter when he is out there.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 3, 2009 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
so you have Feliz in AAA
instead of relief?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 3, 2009 8:13 PM CST up reply actions
Feliz in AAA?!
Son, if you really want something in this life, you have to work for it. Now quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers. - Homer Simpson
by SarasotaRanger on Dec 3, 2009 9:26 PM CST up reply actions
Need to manage his innings
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
If Feliz starts the year in AAA, I'll take it as a much better sign than him starting the year in the big league 'pen
Because it’ll mean the Rangers have committed to him as a starting pitcher.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by LSJ on Dec 3, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions
Well, Harden is supposedly a 5-inning pitcher nowadays
But I’m certainly interested in what he can bring to the team. As I’ve said in the past, if he gets hurt and doesn’t work out in the rotation he’d make a killer bullpen piece.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
Harden
The only thing that slightly concerns me is the fact that he threw nothing but fastballs and changes last year. No sliders or splitters at all. His opponents AVG spiked last year, as well as his BABIP, and this may be one of the reasons why. I guess he wanted to avoid throwing sliders/splitters in order to piece together some semblance of a healthy season, but if he can’t throw a third pitch in the future, I’d be a little wary.
Still, putting up the numbers that he did throwing just a FB/CH is fucking ridiculous.
His FB/CH
combo is very impressive but he is probably going to have to throw a third pitch to be successful in the AL.
If we get him though it would be really exciting.
"Stats are like a woman in a fine little bikini. You can see a lot, but you can't see everything." -Dirk A. Tron
Sounds like he needs a cutter
amirite?
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Finally some good news.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
Yeah
Although now that we have interest in a pitcher, can we please have some interest in a DECENT FA bat now?
While I’m certainly not opposed to seeing Harden here, one thought that does cross my mind is why the fuck are w chasing him over somebody like Johnson, Thome or Glaus?
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by LSJ on Dec 3, 2009 7:58 PM CST up reply actions
I think the Rangers feel that their guys will bounce back and if they can add a pitcher like Harden
Along with bounce backs from Kinsler, Hamilton, and Davis it would be better than adding one of those guys to bounce backs from our guys.
Plus I believe Harden could be the cheapest, with the exception of Glaus, of the group
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Even if all our guys manage bounce back
It’s not going to totally fix this offense. I think we still need an infusion of patience at DH if we’re competing next year, and Smoak appears to need more time at this point.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I have a hard time believing that Harden is going to be significantly cheaper than all three of those guys. Maybe Johnson, I guess.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by LSJ on Dec 3, 2009 8:09 PM CST up reply actions
Word.
Completely agree. Hopefully the guys can work on their plate approach and fix some of the holes in their swings (looking at you, uppercut-pulling Kinsler).
Son, if you really want something in this life, you have to work for it. Now quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers. - Homer Simpson
by SarasotaRanger on Dec 3, 2009 9:26 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know about Harden
He’d probably command a substantially larger deal than Sheets, and he’s a two pitch guy whose fastball registered as below average in the NL last year. He’d be a nice guy to pick up, but I’d rather invest the money elsewhere (Nick Johnson?)
He sure did strike a ton of guys out with that "below average" fastball though
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
i can't see them signing both
I think they’d be happy just to convince one of them to sign, ya know?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 3, 2009 9:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Report just said
that the two top contenders for Padilla are Cubs and Cardinals
TCU AD/PR Student: I Need A Job
by FormerLSBUser on Dec 3, 2009 8:20 PM CST reply actions
That shirts gonna have to wait a year or two
The current one should have Hicks’s face shopped in and be captioned “If you’re a Rangers fan… this one’s for you.”
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by LSJ on Dec 3, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Please don't be a Sheets/Zito/(insert name of potential #1 starter we've missed here) tease....
This arouses me greatly. If the Yankees can pay a google plex for their lineup, can’t we scrounge up enough cash (from revenue sharing?) to snare a high-risk player who won’t command the money to make him an unrealistic target? Please find a way to get this done. The Rangers need SOMETHING, some shot to their lineup to get in serious contention with the Angels. PLEASE.
Son, if you really want something in this life, you have to work for it. Now quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers. - Homer Simpson
via mlbtr
9:26pm: A report from Venezuelan outlet Lider, passed along by Jorge Arangure of ESPN Deportes (via Twitter), claims that Scutaro has signed with the Red Sox. However, there is no additional confirmation at this time.
Since we're thinking happy thoughts....
Let’s say the Rangers are either in first or within 5 games of first at the ASB.
Do you send a Teixeira-type package to Florida for Josh Johnson?
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
depends on what you mean by Teixeira type package
Atlanta was able to deal a good, near ready position player prospect and a AA LAIE type pitcher, along with a couple of low minors high ceiling types. The fact that Elvis and Feliz have had such success makes it seem like that package was brighter than it was at the time. The Braves were also able to hang onto their top 3 guys (Hanson, Heyward, and Schafer) as well.
Some might say that Moreland, Font, Beavan, and Profar is a similar package, and if that is the case, hell yeah, pull the trigger.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
I'm pretty sure "Texeira-type package" would involve names like Smoak, Holland, Perez, or Feliz
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
the package the Braves sent us
excluded their top 3 prospects, Hanson, Heyward, and Schafer.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
Which of the 4 would you be willing to part with, then?
I have to think Perez or Holland. Personally, I lean towards giving up Holland because Perez’ ceiling doesn’t come around every other day.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 4, 2009 8:47 AM CST up reply actions
the package that the Braves sent us
Didn’t have anyone equivalent to any of those 4 in it, they built a package around a top 50 type bat (Salty), a AA LAIE type (Harrison), and a couple of high ceiling, low A ball wildcards (Feliz and Andrus). The fact that Feliz and Andrus have flourished since they got here makes the return look spectacular, but at the time of the deal those 2 weren’t top 100 prospects and they had nowhere near the value that Holland, Feliz, Perez, or Smoak have right now.
I think something like Moreland, Beavan, Main, Font, and Profar is a decent comparison to the value we got from the Braves for Teix.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
Beavan is so meh
Trip doesn’t think he knows how to throw a baseball. But, he’s still young and talented.
I like your logic behind this post though and it would be a coup if we could pull off something like that. It seems as though if you want prospect quality in a big trade, it will cost you time.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 4, 2009 9:02 AM CST up reply actions
Also
Shouldn’t Johnson be more valuable than Teixeira?
Those other 4 players you list are of high quality, but no ML-ready players would probably be a red flag.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 4, 2009 9:04 AM CST up reply actions
Why would he be more valuable?
At midseason next year he would be at the same point, service time wise, that Tex was when he was traded (1.5 years until FA). He will be about a year younger than Tex was. I guess he could be slightly more valuable but I don’t think enough to change the deal that much. Definitely not enough to make it include one of our top 4 if we are doing the Tex type package.
Also at midseason next year Moreland could very well be ML ready. Salty wasn’t really ML ready when we got him. He had ML experience but he wasn’t really ML ready IMO.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Teix had a much longer track record of success
and didn’t have the long term injury issues that have to be factored into JJ’s value. I think the value of the 2 players would be real similar.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
Yep, you're right.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 4, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
Hate to be the dumb guy in the room, but........
…….it’s hardly the first time.
So, it seems Boston has signed Scutaro, who was a Type A, right? So they lose a 1st rounder to Toronto.
What if the Mets sign Bay? Does Boston get a 1st rounder back?
And then when the Red Sox sign Holliday, what type of pick does that cost Boston?
I always have trouble with this. I know I read about it last year when the Yankees signed Sabathia, Burnett, and Teixeira (all type A) but I can’t recall how it all works.
This scenario occurred last year when the Yankees signed three Type As: Mark Teixeira, C.C. Sabathia, and A.J. Burnett. Which team – the Angels, Brewers, or Blue Jays – received the Yanks’ #25 draft pick? It was the Angels for Teixeira. The Brewers received the Yanks’ #73 pick from the second round, and the Jays got the Yanks’ #104 pick from the third round. (Note that all three teams also received picks in the supplemental first round, but those were not taken from the Yankees). So the Blue Jays got screwed – they hoped for a pick between #17 and #32, only to receive #104 for Burnett.
The Teixeira/Sabathia/Burnett situation was decided by each player’s specific Elias ranking number. Teixeira (98.889) nudged out Sabathia (98.110), while Burnett’s number was 89.729. So you see that the Brewers just missed getting #25 instead of #73. They were further burned when Ben Sheets did not sign with a team.
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