T.R. Sullivan on the Rangers' remaining shopping
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 31, 2009 5:30 PM CST
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PrintT.R. Sullivan has a story up about where the Rangers stand in terms of their offseason shopping. He indicates the Rangers have $5-7 million available to spend, with the priority being a middle of the order hitter to DH, but who could potentially play some first base.
Sullivan runs down a list of ten candidates, almost all of whom are past-their-prime big names...basically, the Rangers appear more interested in a vet with playoff experience who might have some tread left on the tires than in a Ryan Garko-type younger role player.
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I'd rather save it for money that could be used in the draft at this point
Either that or money that could be used as part of a midseason trade for a piece when we know a little more about the 2010 Rangers
baseBALLIN!
x
I’d rather save it for money that could be used in the draft at this point
Really? The draft?
If that’s the mentality, then let’s go ahead and trade Frankie and C.J. and just plan on 2010 being a rebuilding year again.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 31, 2009 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
Seriously. People bitch and bitch and bitch about us having no money, but when we do have some money, they want to put it in the fucking piggy bank.
by TooLegitToQuit on Dec 31, 2009 5:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
HA you are ridiculous
you dont spend money for the sake of spending it. you wanna spend 8 mil on richard hidalgo 2.0? I’d bitch and bitch about spending valuable $$ on shitty players. If you’re smart, if you dont see what player fits in with the team in the FA market, you’re better served not shelling out money and using it where the $ goes the furthest, aka the draft. You can say that a draft pick is the biggest gamble financially, but if you draft premium talent, you can spin that premium talent off for solid MLB talent. Adam, i dont think you were implying that we’d be spending blindly, but i was just trying to say, it doesnt hurt to hold the money and use it in the middle of the year.
baseBALLIN!
That's not a little extreme?
I’m not for just saving the money for the draft, but the team can go into the season without getting any of the names thrown around here and still make the playoffs. As you’ve said, the offense is going to depend a lot more on what Hamilton and Davis (or possibly Smoak) can give the team next season over what Garko gives the team.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
I'm saying that...
…if you are going to forego spending money to improve a team that has glaring holes and is supposed to be a playoff contender so that you can spend it on the draft instead, you aren’t serious about contending and should just commit to being in rebuilding mode rather than half-ass trying to compete.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 31, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
Our glaring holes shouldn't be filled with expensive fodder
aka what is found in the free agent class. I dont want broken down has beens taking up playing time. Im a realist, and I’d much rather like us put more money in the draft, be able to sign some big prospects, and spin them off for premium players.
baseBALLIN!
it makes more sense to wait until the middle of the year to wait and see if an important piece could be made available
The idea is to buy low and sell high. You’re buying low on some of these older FA’s, but you’re lying to yourself if you really think that a broken down vlad, garret anderson, jim thome, gary sheffield is going to benefit this offense. Garko with the giants hit .235 with a .638 OPS. He was in a career year. Signing him = buying high. he’s not the answer
baseBALLIN!
Adding a Guerrero, or a Thome...
…or a Garko or a Lowell or a Delgado is better than just doing nothing and hoping that a David Murphy/Joe Inglett DH platoon can keep things afloat until August 1.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 31, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
Butler Post?
I am really starting to think a trade for a big bat is the way to go. Something like Adam posted for Billy Butler. How do you look up old post? I would like to go back and read the arguments for/against that trade.
/
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"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 31, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You just won
The Universe!
lol
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Glaring holes?
What’s next, Teix is a lock HOF’er?
You really should differentiate your two persona’s better…
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
welll
we should have the new ownership in place soon if not before the all star break.
What I want to know...
Is if Daniels gave Sullivan any of the names that made his list of ten. I guessing (hoping?) no. It seems like Sullivan heard the word “presence”, and then cranked out a list of players with the best reputation for past performance. Seriously, look at the Anderson comment it’s nothing but a list of reasons why he sucks.
Also, let’s say a bidding war starts over Nady. Could the Rangers max out their current spending limit of $7 million and then tack on some hefty/easy to reach incentives because a new owner will be in place in the not so distant future?
by Excel Hearts Choi on Dec 31, 2009 5:38 PM CST reply actions
Most likely TR made that list himself
but of course, JD was the one who said the “presence” buzzword – whatever he means by that, and TR ran with that. I also find it interesting that Scott Podsednik was listed alongside Damon as a “premium top of the order bat”.
Personally, I would be happy with one of Gomes/Garko, both of whom have amazing histories of smacking lefties, and platoon him with Murphy for DH. In this case, you would then need another guy who can play OF in case of injuries. It’s also interesting that JD potentially wants two bats, which means at least one of those two need to have some positional flexibility – so while a Thome / Gomes DH platoon might strike moderate-to-low level of fear into the hearts of the children of opposing team’s pitchers, it’s just not realistic. If he is serious about the two bats, it would be either a situation where they will compete for a job, or one able to play 3B/OF. Not sure if any of those names fit the bill here.
I don't think there's much of a difference between the Garko type and someone like Thome
Though some of the guys TR lists aren’t worth more than an NRI.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Carlos Delgado?
Hmm…i haven’t thought of him…i’d take a chance on that swing at TBiA.
"Clearly, I've been wrong. VY is awesome." - AJM
The question on Delgado is do you think last years injury was just an abberation
or the future for a player in his late 30s. I’ll agree if he is healthy he isn’t a bad choice.
What do voluntary mean?
2010 DH, David Dellucci! World Series Experience plus, who's going to teach them proper celebration etiquette?
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
If we had that money to spare
I’m sad we didn’t make a run at Nick Johnson. I know he probably took a discount in New York, but you’d like to think we’d have at least been in the running.
Maybe we were
We don’t know if we were or not. ’Everyone just assumes we never made an offer instead of maybe we made an offer and Johnson chose NY
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 31, 2009 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
I really think we did
and he may have just told us if the Yankees gave him a fair deal then he was going there. They did and he went.
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
by Michael Cave on Dec 31, 2009 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
And
I’m sad we didn’t make a run atNick JohnsonTroy Glaus. I know he probably took a discountin New Yorkto play the field, but you’d like to think we’d have at least been in the running.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"WHAT A SHITLOAD OF FUCK" - LL's "Poochie" on Rich Harden signing with Texas over Seattle
Furthermore...
I dont understand this…
it simply isnt good business to spend 2M more on a guy just to lure him to Arlington…not with this payroll
Fuck Mike Estabrook
i want
either thome delgado or vlad, then go get garland.
I think the team should go for an older big bat
like those on the list, as opposed to “a Ryan Garko-type younger role player”
Simply put, this team is more than a Ryan Garko away from being a contender.
Go Rice Owls!
I'm coming to the conclusion
this franchise can’t afford what it is away from being a contender until the franchise is officially sold, which probably won’t be til after the season starts.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
Let's see how the notion
That additions (per MLB) would be ‘player specific’ works out.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Dec 31, 2009 7:35 PM CST up reply actions
true
which means you have to take a risk. Someone who costs little but may return a lot. And you just hope that that guy gives you his 20%th percentile performance. A healthy Vlad, Delgado, or Sheffield having, dare I say, a 2007 Sammy Sosa type year, may be all this team needs.
Go Rice Owls!
what about
thome i still think he has one year left in him.
Agreed
Might as well throw the hailmary with a vetran that may break out…we just have to find the right one.
My list:
vlad
thome
delgado
by death of the cool on Dec 31, 2009 6:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
pretty much
my same exact list. delgado or thome would hit lots of hr in our ballpark and vlad is a carrer 400 hitter in our park but would the rangers go for a 2 year deal.
I don't think Vlad is going to get a 2 year deal
there are only a couple teams in need of a DH with an ample supply to fill the role. Vlad doesn’t have much negotiating power at this point.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
that is true
hopefully we get him for 1 year 3 mill then go get garland for 1 year 4 mill with 2-3 mill in incentives.
There are about 5 guys out there that I wouldn't mind on the team
And I don’t think there are 5 spots open for them, assuming they need to get the bulk of their ABs at DH.
I'm going to wake up in the morning and Holliday signed with Texas on a 1 yr / 7mm deal.
book it danno.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
happy new year!
I can’t imagine the suckers that are going to pay him top dollar. I think St. Louis is bidding against themselves
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
yeah, if I were STL I'd just shut the ol' mouths up.
Boras is threatening to take it year to year…until the market picks back up….I thought I read that somewheres….I think that would be monumentally stupid…just get it while you can.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
Boras is anything but stupid
Bay just set the market. Holliday will slot in probably a million or two more and a year or two longer. Probably a nice deal for the first couple of years and a pretty bad deal the last couple of years. I really doubt Boras lets his late twenties/early 30s slugger take a one year deal unless its for just stupid money.
What do voluntary mean?
Sigh, yep:
basically, the Rangers appear more interested in a vet with playoff experience who might have some tread left on the tires than in a Ryan Garko-type younger role player.
This organization seems to think DH is just some position to throw cheap, broken down scrubs at under the guise of “presence” rather than getting someone who is actually capable of providing you with real production.
I’m starting to wonder if the Rangers and Astros need to swap leagues.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"WHAT A SHITLOAD OF FUCK" - LL's "Poochie" on Rich Harden signing with Texas over Seattle
was there ever anyone grittier than Fulmer? That guy wore cut off long sleeved undershirts that he washed once a season
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
No joke
I’d like to see them take the DH a little more seriously, you can’t just put any old scrap player there and plug them in the middle of the lineup and expect a consistent offense. I understand the low-risk/high-reward idea, but you can do better than the Delgado’s and Jones’ of baseball. Otherwise, why not just forgo the idea of a regular DH and rely on a rotation of Davis/Smoak/Max/Hamilton/etc???
BTW, I’m guessing they sign Vlad.
The problem is that
no one out there gives you real production outside of Matt Holliday who we know isn’t coming here. Most of the best options we could get here are old past their prime veterans.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
There are degrees of past-their-prime targets however.
And we’re a lot more likely to go for the Sheffields and the Dyes simply because they’re cheaper than a Vlad or a Thome.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"WHAT A SHITLOAD OF FUCK" - LL's "Poochie" on Rich Harden signing with Texas over Seattle
Well...
Sheffield had a 119 OPS+ last season, might be a back-up option at 1B, and is the RH bat that the team is looking for. Dye is also a right-handed bat that was doing pretty well last season before that second half collapse (when he had a .195 BABIP to go with a nice 13% walk rate). Out of the rumored names we’re interested in, I’m for Thome, but I don’t think any name stands out that much and a Sheffield or Dye carries about the same risk/reward as Thome.
Now if we’re talking about Anderson, Mora, Sweeney, or Huff like TR mentioned, then I’m right there with you in being depressed about our DH going into ST. Those guys are NRIs at best and my guess is that they’ll be retired or out of baseball within the next couple of seasons.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
basically agree
I’m starting to think Vlad on a one year deal would be best case, even though it isn’t a perfect fit with his grip it and rip it plate approach and no defensive utility. Past him, I think you can make an argument for any of that group of Dye, Sheff, Thome, Delgado, probably a couple others I’m forgetting…. One of those guys is probably going to have a real good season for somebody, which one does it is anybody’s guess.
But what I really think willl happen is that the big acquisition is coming via trade. Thinking about JD’s repeated use of “impact bat” got me to thinking about that. I don’t think he might be throwing around “add a presence to the lineup” as a way of getting out front of a trade that is going to bring in the bat he wants, but is going to cost a price that Ranger fans will question.
JD has a lot riding on this year, and has his hands tied with the budget, and a team president and fanbase that are expecting to compete for the division. I could see the motivation to slide some minor league chips to the middle of the table – especially if he feels that the team has a glaring hole to be addressed and he doesn’t have a way to buy a solution via FA.
What a drag it is being broke.
another thought on the impact bat via trade
With a reported $5-7M budget, and rumors of being the leading dog in the John Garland hunt (which would likely require all of that remaining budget), doesn’t seem to say there is a good possibility that the DH that JD keeps talking about bringing in is coming from a trade.
If the rumor about Garland is right, and the reported remaining budget is right, seems like JD is poised to make a salary neutral trade for a guy he is comfortable with as DH.
Would KC give up Butler for CJ + ?
What a drag it is being broke.
ugh, poorly written
after parenthesis should read: doesn’t it seem to say…
What a drag it is being broke.
the "+" in that KC trade
would have to be pretty big. I don’t see them giving up such a good, young hitter for a reliever with two more years of service time unless the plus is someone like Holland.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
well, Moore could be thinking
That he could replace Butler with one of the FA grab bag DH pool easier than he could sign a lefty with some plus stuff that could be slotted in his rotation. If not CJ, possibly Hunter.
4 years of DH for 6 years of MORP, seems fairly equitable when you look at it that way.
What a drag it is being broke.
Yep...
the Rangers might get away with BGL + Hunter instead of Holland, but would probably have to throw in another piece too.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
that's crazy
there is always a premium on controllable pitching, and 4 years of a DH isn’t going to command 6 years of a MORP that has posted an ERA in the 4s in a hitters park in the AL, as well as 2 years of a very good late inning lefty. One or the other could very well be the foundation for a trade.
What a drag it is being broke.
I think you're underestimating how good Butler is.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I think you are overestimating his value
He’s a damn good hitter, I fully realize that. But come on, he’s a career 800 OPS and he’s strictly a DH. You can usually get similar production like that on the FA market every year for a moderate salary.
If you like WAR, Butler was 2.4 last year.
CJ was 2.0 , Hunter was1.8, and just as a point of reference, Nelson Cruz was 3.6.
What a drag it is being broke.
Butler is probably due for a breakout year.
Don’t you figure?
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Jan 1, 2010 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
Dude
Butler is 23, isn’t he? He’s done quite well for a young player and I’d venture to say he’s a good bet to do better than 2.4/.800 OPS over the next few years he’s still cheap.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
all of the above could also be said of Hunter
He’s also 23 and likely to get better, and he’s under control 2 extra years, is less expensive, and there is a huge premium involved when trading starting pitching for a DH.
What a drag it is being broke.
Cool.
Figured you could use some frontcourt help with LA going down. I hope it’s nothing serious.
by brettgardner on Jan 1, 2010 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry, I had to giggle if that's Aldridge.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Jan 1, 2010 11:54 PM CST up reply actions
Also
I wonder if OKC might consider trading for Brand. He’s not that far removed from being good. Collison and Thomas?
by brettgardner on Jan 1, 2010 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
I think Brand needs the ball too much..
..to be a good fit there. Not to mention the injury risk. I don’t think OKC wants to chance making risky moves that could ruin their flexibility
Hmm
New Jersey? There aren’t a whole lot of places they dump him.
I also find Houston’s demands for TMac amusing.
by brettgardner on Jan 1, 2010 11:30 PM CST up reply actions
I think
He’d be so happy to even get off the bench, he’d be thrilled to play anywhere and with anyone.
Harris/Wade/CDR/Brand/Lopez is a playoff team, and maybe a top 4 seed.
by brettgardner on Jan 1, 2010 11:40 PM CST up reply actions
Perhaps I am...
but I think he’s going to just continue to improve as a hitter.
There are some that think trading high on Hunter is a good idea and that he won’t produce like he did in ‘09 again. I’m not one of those people. I think he could be a solid middle of the rotation pitcher who eats up innings. I’m not saying I would deal Hunter and BGL for Butler (that would be a tough decision) but that would probably be close to what it would cost and I’d seriously consider it.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I'd give up both for Butler
in a heartbeat
Trade
If they do add another veteran pitcher it would seem they have the depth to build a trade package around a pitcher.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
That's what I was thinking as well...
When the talk was about Jon Garland coming to Texas, I figured the Rangers must have had a trade that they could put in place for a hitter right away. Otherwise it seems that they’d have an issue in that their major league pitchers wouldn’t be reaching free agency quickly enough to accomodate their prospects’ eventual rise through the system; guys would be using up all of their options before the Rangers could get them significant time at the big league level.
Although this is likely an issue even if Garland, or another veteran pitcher, doesn’t come to Texas.
Frankie Francisco. C.J. Wilson. Neftali Feliz. Darren O'Day. Pedro Strop.
American League Teams simply know them as "The Basterds."
What a Depressing List...
T.R. Sullivan’s suggested candidates for the Rangers DH spot really had me thinking about my personal life:
In 2009, my wife divorced me, moved to Vermont, and married by younger sister. But back in 2008, we had a wonderful 20th Wedding Anniversary and my prostate was smaller than my fist.
Frankie Francisco. C.J. Wilson. Neftali Feliz. Darren O'Day. Pedro Strop.
American League Teams simply know them as "The Basterds."
Going by that pattern
2010 should be a good year for you, right?
So.. uhm… Happy New Year?
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Why Not?
If Mike Sweeney can “add a presence in the lineup,” then what’s to stop Holly Weber from marrying a man twice her age with Genital Herpes.
Frankie Francisco. C.J. Wilson. Neftali Feliz. Darren O'Day. Pedro Strop.
American League Teams simply know them as "The Basterds."
by YourNameHere on Dec 31, 2009 9:23 PM CST up reply actions
Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a minute there
Your ex-wife married your sister? That’s taking sibling rivalry just a bit too far.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
You called me out...
It was a joke. It just seems like that’s how each of T.R. Sullivan’s profiles read: in 2009, everything went to hell, but in 2008…
Frankie Francisco. C.J. Wilson. Neftali Feliz. Darren O'Day. Pedro Strop.
American League Teams simply know them as "The Basterds."
by YourNameHere on Jan 1, 2010 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
I hope your fist is pretty small.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jan 1, 2010 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No shit?
and after 20 years?
That is one of the strangest things I’ve ever heard.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
compared to this list
the Lowell deal looks a lot better-he at least has some defensive value, unlike Vlad, Dye, or Thome. How much would Garko and Gomes as platoon guys/DH cost together?
"I’m not in the meetings and not part of the discussions; it’s not my responsibility. . My responsibility is to go out and win tonight. My focus is to win tonight. The club has to look at more than just this year." -Michael Young
I don't really think Lowell has much defensive value anymore
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"WHAT A SHITLOAD OF FUCK" - LL's "Poochie" on Rich Harden signing with Texas over Seattle
but you never know
how healthy Lowell will be what if he gets injured again and does not play at all then your giving up max rameriz for many years for one year of lowell.
bukkake on this list
TR is raising the flag on the failboat.
Id be down with Delgado on the cheap though.
Miguel Tejada
In looking for that “big veteran bat” and also to get some additional mileage out of a guy playing defensively what about Tejada? Still hits well; can play as a utility backup infielder; and could very well DH?
So, T.R. seems to believe that Scooter will be our Opening Day Starter.
I am not opposed to this.
She say she are the manager.
Since we always loose on opening day, might as well not start Harden then.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"WHAT A SHITLOAD OF FUCK" - LL's "Poochie" on Rich Harden signing with Texas over Seattle
by LSJ on Jan 2, 2010 6:59 PM CST up reply actions
Ummm...we won last year, and swept the series versus Cleveland
She say she are the manager.
by rockin_rangers on Jan 2, 2010 7:29 PM CST up reply actions
And we lost like 5 years straight before that or something.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"WHAT A SHITLOAD OF FUCK" - LL's "Poochie" on Rich Harden signing with Texas over Seattle
by LSJ on Jan 2, 2010 7:46 PM CST up reply actions
unless hes injured
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
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