Seattle Mariners reportedly close to a deal for Chone Figgins
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 4, 2009 2:11 PM CST
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PrintKen Rosenthal says that the M's are on the verge of signing a 4 year, $36 million deal with Chone Figgins.
I guess they'll put Figgins at third base. He's a nice player in his role, but given his age and abilities, he was seen as a prime candidate to get overpaid this offseason.
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Good contract for them
sucks.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
I'm not so sure about that
Age 32-35 years, after all.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 4, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
And...
coupled with the fact that I don’t know if he’s even an upgrade over Beltre. Figgins is a different type of player, but I don’t think overall he adds to the Mariners based on what they got out of third base last year.
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 4, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
Look it up
in 2009 Figgins was superior than Beltre.
RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09
I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
The 2009 Marco Scutaro was superior to the 2009 Jimmy Rollins
That doesn’t mean getting Scutaro would be an upgrade over Rollins for the Phillies.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 4, 2009 4:59 PM CST up reply actions
speaking of Beltre
What teams are left needing a 3b? He might be a big bargain for somebody now.
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
They have no money to spend
Chris Johnson will probably be playing 3B for them.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 5, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
If they unload Oswalt...
…then they are rebuilding, and aren’t going to be trying to sign an expensive veteran 3B.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 5, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
Giants moving Sandoval to first?
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
Nope...
they’re going to sign Hank to play there.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
They should.
Who knows whether they actually will or not. There have been rumors linking the Giants to Beltre though.
I'd love to hear your reasoning here, Adam.
Figgins is cheaper (compared to what the M’s were paying for Beltre to suck) and is going to get on base a ton, turning a lot of walks and singles into doubles. Beltre is obviously the better defender, but that’s about the only thing he’s got going for him that I can see.
The cheaper part isn't really relevant...
…in discussing whether he’s an upgrade.
Chone had a .276 EQA last year and is a career .266 EQA guy.
Beltre had a .238 EQA last year, but is a career .268 EQA guy.
So they are about equal offensively, and Beltre is a year younger. Chone was great defensively last year, but Beltre is probably overall the superior defender.
I just don’t see that he’s an upgrade.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 4, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions
Can't you use wOBA?
That’s what everyone else uses.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Dec 4, 2009 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Silly non-conformist
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by LSJ on Dec 4, 2009 7:34 PM CST up reply actions
I've read it
But I don’t see why I should use it instead of EQA.
A significant reason a certain segment of the stathead community appears to have embraced wOBA as from a backlash against BP.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 4, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
Sucking?
I don’t know. I just know that I’m not wasting money on BP with FanGraphs there for free.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
and I liked FanGraphs better then BP for the short time I had a BP sub.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
BP appears to be viewed...
…as monolithic and stodgy, somewhat behind the times, among some segments of the community.
In any case, you don’t have to pay for EQA.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 4, 2009 8:16 PM CST up reply actions
Well
According to this, from BBTiA awhile back, wOBA does fare better than EqA in the “modern offensive era”.
They both seem to be very similar stats to me, at least in terms of what they’re trying to represent, but I like wOBA a bit better because it seems more OBP based, and the real mathy stat guys seem to like it’s linear weights better.
Plus the fact that fangraphs simply makes it much easier to access and compare with doesn’t hurt matters.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by LSJ on Dec 4, 2009 8:24 PM CST up reply actions
The real advantage in wOBA...
is in its pliability; that is to say, it can easily be converted into runs above league average, and easily manipulated to determine the run differential between two players with varying inputs (e.g. PA, OBP, SLG). They’re extremely similar beyond that. It’s all a matter of preference.
An interesting discussion on the topic: http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/why_is_eqa_so_complicated/
by Joey Matschulat on Dec 4, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions
Intersting link
Thanks Joey.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
Dave Cameron
Not surprised to see he’s one of the first comments there. He does not come across as terribly objective on the subject of anything BP.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 4, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
I would like to actually hear the reason for prefering EqA from you, though.
I use to use it over wOBA, too, until someone presented all the arguments for why I was being silly. And then wOBA became more easily accessible than EqA, and I haven’t had many reasons to prefer it since.
Short answer
I’m used to it, have a better feel for relative scaling and such (I have a much better sense for what, say, a .280 EQA means in terms of the good/bad scale than, say, a .340 wOBA), and haven’t seen anything to suggest that wOBA is a material upgrade over EQA.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 4, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
As far as the scaling goes
I think it was explained pretty well in the Fangraphs link I posted earlier. Like EqA is scaled to imitate batting average, wOBA is scaled to imitate OBP.
.340 is an okay wOBA (depending upon position) while anything below about .330 is below average. The .360-.370 range is pretty good and .380+ is really good.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
Fangraphs also shows yearly averages
And that is more important than what you’re used to if you want to be accurate in comparing him to the league.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Well
I don’t think its a bad one. Dave Cameron likes it. But I still Beltre a little better.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
yeah seems like
a decent deal. not a bargain or anything, but he makes himself useful in enough ways that even with some decline in his skills, i find it tough to envision them having serious regrets about this contract in 3 years.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Dec 4, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
I figured someone would give him more than that
I was figuring he would get more like 10-12 from some team. Though I wouldn’t want to bet on him being useful in 4 years.
What do voluntary mean?
I'm not too worried about it
Chone seems like the type of player that will only have good years under the spell of Mike Scoscia and his black magic. I can just see that contract looking really, really ugly in 2 years.
But because he was annoying in Anaheim, I’m glad to see him go. So I’m glad to see Seattle saddled with his contract, and I’m glad to see him leaving our other divisional rival.
More seriously, I don’t care who Seattle gets, they aren’t the team to worry about in this division. They are going to need a lot more than Chone to be competitive.
Go Rice Owls!
I worry about Seattle
but I’d rather watch him there than have him be a part of the big cloud of smug in Anaheim.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 4, 2009 5:39 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
I hate GMZ
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
It must be nice to have money to spend
They seem to really think they have a chance next season.
That's why they call them business sox
It's nice to know...
we can continue hating Figgins.
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 4, 2009 2:22 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I had hoped he'd sign outside the division
but anything that pokes a hole in the Angels lineup wouldn’t be all bad.
Yeah?
But we got Inglett suckas!
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"I spoke with a wife of a Ranger at LaGuardia Airport (just before the infamous siddown with Dom Chiti) and she told me everybody in the organization was pissed at Tom Hicks." - JDubs
by Cecilio's Guante on Dec 4, 2009 2:25 PM CST reply actions
Ichiro and Figgins in the same lineup...
That won’t be annoying or anything…
"you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?" - Josey Wales
Yes...
of all the players in all of baseball it always seemed like Figgins and Ichiro were coming up to bat every damn inning. Now it will almost be true. :`(
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 4, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
gotta go with the twenty somethings
over the thirty somethings
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Dec 4, 2009 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
I'm betting the ranch on our guys.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"I spoke with a wife of a Ranger at LaGuardia Airport (just before the infamous siddown with Dom Chiti) and she told me everybody in the organization was pissed at Tom Hicks." - JDubs
by Cecilio's Guante on Dec 4, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions
Weird..
according to Yahoo, “Texas Rangers” is the number 7 most popular search today.
"you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?" - Josey Wales
There must be a lot of hidden Ranger fans in the world.
"BIg whoop, wanna fight about it?"
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
by lost in space on Dec 4, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
hmm, Josey went off the deep end and died on his keyboard after hearing Nolan was leaving
Feliz says his greatest thrill was striking out Boston Red Sox DH David Ortiz, one of his heroes. Yet, when he called to tell his parents, his mother had a request: Strike out New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez, too.
"So when I did that," Feliz says, "I told my mom, 'There you go. There's your present. Don't ask me to strike anyone else out, OK?'
Gotta be because of dumb ass Hicks
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
I don't get it
Figgins seems overrated to me. He’s a light-hitting 3B who plays good defense. He can steal bases, but gets caught too often. It’s baffling to me that he received MVP votes this year (he had the same number of points as A-Rod, even).
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Dec 4, 2009 3:32 PM CST reply actions
He was a 6 WAR player this season.
More valuable than Matt Holliday, Kevin Youkilis and Carl Crawford to name a few.
A .395 OBP with a ton of speed at leadoff and a career defensive year ever at 3B will do that for ya.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by LSJ on Dec 4, 2009 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
this year he was bordering on great. Most years hes been a good solid player. The question on him is did his walk rate go up over a fluky segment of time or did it actually go up for good. If it went up for good this is a good deal for them, if it was just a short stretch of time then its probably not.
What do voluntary mean?
Salty out for a month
Status for spring training unknown
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
Sigh
The club has offered arbitration to Ivan Rodriguez, and even though he is unlikely to accept it by Monday’s deadline, it would seem that he is the No. 1 choice.
I don’t get this fixation on Pudge. I don’t give a fuck if he’s a Ranger legend, the guy is done. Take the draft pick and pick up some spare like Josh Bard or Ramon Castro, goddamit. Or better yet, ask the Reds about Ryan Hanigan.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by LSJ on Dec 4, 2009 7:47 PM CST up reply actions
Shit
I’s rather use Kevin Richardson then waste money on Pudge.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
This was the crap that Pudge was last year
.249/.280/.384
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
But but but
Veteran Presence! Ranger Legend! Nostalgia! NOSTAAAAALGIAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by LSJ on Dec 4, 2009 7:53 PM CST up reply actions
I know I was kinda for bringing P back the other day...
…but after digesting it for 48 and looking at some #’s….
dude is done…shit I wish Max wouldn’t’ve blown ‘09 (although I still don’t feel he’s legit defensively…)
So…besides the folks LSJ mentioned northward…who can we target?
This is a big issue IMO….like a fucking GLARING issue.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"I spoke with a wife of a Ranger at LaGuardia Airport (just before the infamous siddown with Dom Chiti) and she told me everybody in the organization was pissed at Tom Hicks." - JDubs
by Cecilio's Guante on Dec 4, 2009 7:57 PM CST up reply actions
Not much on the FA catching market
But we can’t afford anyone decent anyway, so it’s not like it matters. I just don’t see why we’re willing to compromise our 2010 draft for a freaking spare catcher.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by LSJ on Dec 4, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
Perhaps a strong choice of words
But do you really want to see this team give up a draft pick for Pudge fucking Rodriguez? That seems really stupid to me.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by LSJ on Dec 4, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
"Perhaps"?
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 4, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
What does it matter?
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by LSJ on Dec 4, 2009 9:19 PM CST up reply actions
For the good of your posts!!
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 4, 2009 9:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Eh, everyone knows I'm an overractionary hothead by now.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
So are you.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
to be fair
it would be nice to use that draft pick to compensate ourselves for the two players we sent to Houston for six weeks of Pudge’s services.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
And thats the crap of your other two catchers
233 /.290 /.371
AND
.217 /.270 /.374
Who cares about the draft pick if he can play like a mid-tier catcher for around 100 games and we get to the playoffs.
I still believe!
Hahaha
Pudge is so far below “mid tier catcher” it’s not even funny.
I’d say it’s a safe wager that we’re not going to the playoffs next year if he’s our starting catcher.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
Let me put it this way:
Pudge is done. He’s just as bad as the others where this year, and he’s about three times as old. He is in no fashion an upgrade over anyone we already have. Either one of Salty, Tea or Max outperforms him in 2010 or we need to rethink our longterm plans for the catching position.
As far as the playoffs goes, you can forget about that unless you can loan the team some money to acquire some decent FA’s.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
I think Salty is about done as a catcher with these shoulder problems
Teagarden has done nothing offensively and is a blackhole in a lineup. Max had some good strides in 08’ but with a gone year for him last year who knows? I think catcher is probably as big of a concern as any others.
I still believe!
It is
But Pudge is not a solution. Replacing shitty players with an equally shitty player who happens to have a big name is not solving a problem.
There’s really not too many guys out there on the FA who would be a real upgrade at catcher for us, so no matter what we do things are kind of contingent on one of our guys suddenly becoming not shitty next year.
Probably the only way we’re gonna actually upgrade the catching position right now is to use some of our superflous SP depth like McCarthy or Harrison to acquire a middling talent from someone. My ideal target would be Ryan Hanigan, though I don’t know for sure if the Reds would be willing to part with him.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
Interesting
FanGraphs predicts him to be a 4.4 WAR player next year, which is worth $20 mil by their player value system. So, I guess getting him for $9 is a bargain.
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Dec 4, 2009 3:35 PM CST reply actions
The fans say that he'll be a 4.4 WAR player
And I doubt that every fan has his own projection system that he uses.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Yanks are going after Doc
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"I spoke with a wife of a Ranger at LaGuardia Airport (just before the infamous siddown with Dom Chiti) and she told me everybody in the organization was pissed at Tom Hicks." - JDubs
by Cecilio's Guante on Dec 4, 2009 3:37 PM CST reply actions
And the sky is blue...
I’ll give it a month before he’s dealt there.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I don't know if I'd be wanting to deal him to one of the two insurmountables in their own division
But then again, the Jays probably aren’t gonna be finishing ahead of the Yanks or Red Sox before Doc retires anyway.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
Obviously, it comes down to getting the best return for him
but getting your ass kicked in front of the home town fans a couple of times a year with him on the mound isn’t the best PR move I can think of.
I like this deal as a Rangers fan
I don’t think Figgins is going to be worth that kind of money. His offense is pretty much completely BABIP dependent. If he’s not able to hit around .300, then his OBP/SB combo isn’t going to make up for his lack of power. I also can’t imagine his defense being strong enough to make up for that.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Most likely
a better addition than anything the Rangers will see this offseason.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
by DJCahill on Dec 4, 2009 4:14 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
most likely a better addition
than everything the rangers will see this offseason
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Dec 4, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
Is there any hope for the team to divest itself of Hicks?
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 4, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
Sadly, if we get Gilbert
it will be possible to get rid of Hicks and still get a downgrade at the position.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
by DJCahill on Dec 4, 2009 4:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
sure seems that way
Favorite bumper sticker of all time, seen on a VW bus:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass. Nobody rides for free"
I'm prepping myself for a nightmare that won't end.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 4, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
Yahoo has Texas Rangers as #7 on their list of popular searches
They’re nestled in between Cheryl Hines and Jack Nicholson
I've always wondered - did he get his clothes at a Viet Cong supply store?
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
@LookoutLanding Tony Reagins’ face looks like it’s separating from the back of his head http://tinyurl.com/yfc5lrh
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
greatness.
I kinda fear the M’s though…
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"I spoke with a wife of a Ranger at LaGuardia Airport (just before the infamous siddown with Dom Chiti) and she told me everybody in the organization was pissed at Tom Hicks." - JDubs
by Cecilio's Guante on Dec 4, 2009 7:46 PM CST up reply actions
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