Kevin Towers, future Ranger exec?
There's been a lot of talk about the connections between former San Diego Padre g.m. Kevin Towers and potential Ranger owner Dennis Gilbert, and this story in the San Diego Union-Tribune about Towers and where he is in his life since being let go by the Padres suggests he'll be relocating to Arlington, should Gilbert be successful in his purchase:
Kevin Towers would like to see how the other half spends.
After 14 years of bargain-basement baseball, the Padres’ deposed general manager wants a glimpse of life in the penthouse. He’s looking to land at least a temporary gig with some big-budget ballclub that is undaunted by the deep end of the talent pool.
Preferably in the American League. Probably with the New York Yankees. Possibly, if Dennis Gilbert’s ownership group can move quickly enough, with the Texas Rangers.
I initially used the word g.m. instead of exec in the headline of this post, when I first was writing it, and then changed it, because I think there's a realistic chance (as I've discussed before) that Gilbert would want to embrace a Jerry Jones-like role, overseeing business operations while also filling the g.m. role with the team. That said, if Gilbert does end up prevailing in his purchase, and doesn't take over the g.m. job himself at some point soon thereafter, I expect Towers to be the team's g.m. at this point next year.
I think it is a given that the current front office regime will stay in place through 2010, other than Nolan Ryan, who apparently isn't going to stick around if Gilbert prevails in the bidding, simply because by the time Gilbert gets approved, it will be too close to the start of the season for him to make wholesale organizational changes. And it is certainly possible that Gilbert may decide not to make sweeping changes, particularly if the Rangers are a playoff team in 2010.
But if Gilbert ends up owning the team, and in particular if the Rangers' win total recedes from 2009, I expect Gilbert to take over in a hands-on role on the baseball side, whether as g.m. or bringing in Towers to be the g.m., and my guess is that you'll end up seeing a ton of turnover on the baseball side next offseason.
The irony of this, of course, is that something similar happened with Towers in San Diego. As the article details, Sandy Alderson came in and was installed above Towers on the organizational chart, and Alderson brought in former Dodgers g.m. (and Moneyball hero) Paul DePodesta to work directly for him, rather than for Towers, a move that Towers apparently felt undercut his authority.
Towers says in the article he doesn't want to join a situation where he'd be viewed as a threat to whomever is in charge, but I don't see how that wouldn't end up being the case if he were brought in to Texas, where the assumption would be that he'd be waiting to take over for Jon Daniels as g.m.
The story also details the tension that resulted with DePodesta being brought on board, and the conflicting styles between the "affable" Towers and the more analytic DePodesta.*
* And as a side note, it was interesting to see the commenters at BTF, where this story is also linked, immediately start killing Towers for his reaction to DePodesta. One of the things that both Moneyball and the media stories of DePodesta suggest is that people skills aren't his strength -- he seems, like a lot of highly intelligent people, to be less than comfortable with the sort of interpersonal communication skills that are usually critical to being successful in executive positions. And it occurs to me that that may be way DePodesta generates such impassioned defense from much of the cyber-stathead mob...he's a hero for all the socially awkward, Asperger-esque geeks who take personally the criticisms leveled at DePodesta, and feel the ability to schmooze and communicate in ways other than via email are overrated.
Anyway...worth checking out, if only to get a glimpse at the guy who there's a good chance will be here in a major role at this time next year, should Dennis Gilbert's ownership group end up buying the Rangers.
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We'll never win shit.
This franchise is cursed.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
There are worse people to have as g.m....
…than Towers.
Such as Dennis Gilbert, most likely.
At this point, if Gilbert prevails, I’m hoping he brings Towers in pretty quick, on the theory that Towers can be his Jimmy Johnson, and we can have a few years where our meddlesome owner who thinks he can be a g.m. is held at bay because there’s someone in place who he actually respects.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 5, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah it's more Gilbert then Towers that I'm worried about
I can really see him fucking up what is being built here.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Dec 5, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
Owner or GM
Are you worried more about Gilbert the owner or Gilbert the GM?
by Excel Hearts Choi on Dec 5, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
I think that even if he has a named GM
he’s still going to be calling most of the shots.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Dec 5, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
Here's what worries me about Kevin Towers
Adrian Gonzalez for Justin Smoak, Julio Borbon, and Martin Perez.
that was floated over at BP. Kevin would do that because he doesn’t know the farm well enough to know how special Perez and smoak is.
Gilbert
Do you still believe that Dennis Gilbert is an improvement over the Tom Hicks who stopped giving away draft picks for middle relievers, invested in Latin America, paid above slot for high round draft picks, tried to sign Ben Sheets last year, and supported Jon Daniels while he built the best farm system in baseball?
by Darrell McKown on Dec 5, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, he's a major improvement over Tom Hicks.
This is the same organization that won 89 games with a very young team in 2004, had tremendous financial flexibility not to mention a very, very good (albeit underrated) minor league system yet had to undergo a fairly serious rebuild in 2007.
I’m very confident that Gilbert wouldn’t fuck up nearly as bad as Hicks & Daniels fucked up from 2005 thru 2008.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
You keep repeating that
but it doesn’t make it true. The farm system in 2004 was fairly bare by the time that Kinsler made it to the majors without any real impact arms coming up. The 2004 team over did their pythagorean by 2 wins, and wasn’t very young. Only 1 pitcher under the age of 25 had any real impact. The offense was younger, but still had some turnover to go. Their best prospect (Gonzalez) was horribly blocked by the better Mark Teixeira and was going to languish on the farm for another year.
Tom Hicks keeping the team
with new financial backing (while no longer an option, it appears) doesn’t sound so bad anymore, now does it?
Go Rice Owls!
No, Tom Hicks having any affiliation with the Texas Rangers
sounds horrific.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
You really need to give this bit up, JBI. You're digging a deeper hole.
How can he own the team if he isn’t paying for anything?
Ward of the state.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
I just can't resist bringing it up
If the alternative is Gilbert being a Jerry Jones-esque GM. I’ve never heard anything so ludicrous in my life.
Go Rice Owls!
Do you know how much immediate success the Cowboys had
under Jerry Jones?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
So it is a bit. Okay.
Because I’m pretty sure you still don’t realize that Hicks does not possess the Texas Rangers, physically, or in name.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
Wrong question
The question isn’t whether Tom Hicks, with new financial backing, sounds bad. The question is does Tom Hicks, with new financial backing, sound worse than Dennis Gilbert coming in there and reversing everything this club has done the last three years.
Think about 1B last year. Chris Davis was terrible, but Hank Blalock managed to be even worse. I’m afraid we are about to experience the ownership equivalent of our 1B situation last year.
by Darrell McKown on Dec 5, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
And the answer, once again, is yes. It is worse.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
Why?
That did Tom Hicks do in 2006-08 that makes him a worse owner than someone who would come in here and reverse everything the team has done the last three years.
by Darrell McKown on Dec 5, 2009 3:22 PM CST up reply actions
The fact that we are mired in clusterfuckapalooza this offseason
is the reason that Tom Hicks cannot be trusted by MLB to do anything with a baseball team.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
This offseason
Everyone going right now is driven by the team’s current financial condition. If Hicks had been able to restructure the debt, then he would back in the same position he was in during the 2006-08 period.
So, I ask again, what did Tom Hicks do in 2006-08 that makes him a worse owner than someone who would come in here and reverse everything the team has done the last three years?
by Darrell McKown on Dec 5, 2009 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
Overleverage the Rangers to the point
to where in the event of economic uncertainty, he wouldn’t be liquid enough to keep the team floating.
How much farther are we going to go with this?
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
I think the overall 5 year ownership performance of Tom Hicks
since the end of the 2004 season is amongst the very worst performances by an owner in the modern era (since 1970) rating with Charlie Finley in the late 70s and trumping anything that Peter Angelos ever did.
It would be very difficult for either the Gilbert or Greenburg groups to be any close to the bumbling incompetence we’ve been privy to for the last 5 years.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Okay
This is a very stupid post.
I wish you’d quit doing things like this, because it makes me feel stupid for agreeing with you on much of the other things you’ve had to say on this issue.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 5, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
Following that post up
I just rememered this. A guy wrote a book about the 1974-75 Rangers. It was called “Seasons in Hell”
Pull $100 million out of the team...
…and then be unable to even meet payroll or sign the team’s first round pick with MLB stepping in to help?
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 5, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
No, no, couldn't be.
He loves us. He loves baseball, Adam.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
Okay, fine
But if Dennis Gilbert turns out to combine the worst elements of Jerry Jones, Mark Cuban and Tom Hicks, I don’t want to anyone complaining, since we’ll be better off than we were.
by Darrell McKown on Dec 5, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
No.
We know Tom Hicks sucks.
There is a chance that Gilbert won’t suck as much as Hicks, but it’s impossible to suck more.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, there is
He overleverages himself so much that the major league payroll doesn’t move much, and he cuts back on the spending in Latin America and the draft. Then, he runs Ryan and Daniels out of town, removing both the most credible voice of the franchise and the one most responsible for building the current farm system. Finally, he takes a significant role in personnel decisions, becoming a Jerry Jones type owner, but without either a Jimmy Johnson or Bill Parcels around or the financial strength Jones has to be able to outspend a good portion of his mistake.
That would suck worse than the current state of the Rangers franchise under Tom Hick.
by Darrell McKown on Dec 5, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
No, you idiot.
Under the initial scenario, at least that owner would be ABLE to meet the freaking payroll.
Our owner was unable to make PAYROLL.
What does that say to you?
Hint: We aren’t the Yankees.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
What if
Gilbert trades away all of our best young players for older crappier ones (Ian Kinsler for Juan Pierre) and THEN fails to make payroll.
If there is any indication
that Gilbert will not be able to make payroll, then he won’t be sold the team. Period.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 7, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
Huh?
I don’t get to complain if Gilbert is worse than Hicks, because I want Hicks gone?
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 5, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
The Marlins have shown that you can have a good team with an owner who won't spend anything
I’d rather take my chances with a team limited by a small payroll instead of a team ran completely by someone incompetent.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Players
even if they’re getting paid shit, won’t play, if they don’t get paid.
Do you see?
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
The players are getting paid
I don’t see the point in bitching about Hicks right now because its pretty clear that he won’t keep the team in any significant capacity. The problem is that its possible now to go from being a richer Marlins team (if that’s how you want to view the team over the past few years) to something worse with Gilbert wanting to do everything and not having the money to turn this team into another Yankees. When the Steinbrenners would meddle, at least you knew that they were going to make up for it by bringing in some top FAs each offseason. Do you think Gilbert is going to be signing players to 100+million dollar deals each offseason
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
No, no
Hicks has lost the team. Nobody on this board reads posts carefully anymore. It is very disturbing.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions
So...
You’d rather have someone in here who won’t spend more than $30 million on payroll than Hicks?
If those are the choices, I’ll take my chances with Hicks.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 5, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
Worse than Gilbert?
Can’t say for sure right now. Hell, Greenberg could be worse.
I’ll take my chances, though.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 5, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
"New York Yankees... Or possibly the Texas Rangers."
Huh? So we can expect a big budget, ‘you win with money’ payroll with Gilbert?
by N41D on Dec 5, 2009 11:58 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Yeah I don't see how the Rangers are anywhere near a
“penthouse”
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 5, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think he could afford jacking up the payroll that much.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Consider yourself the poster child of Ranger fans
who have been dumbed down by their owner, gdawg.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Gilbert isn't some billionaire with cash to burn
He’s going to be the head of an investment group. These groups aren’t known for coming in and throwing out 50+ million dollar contracts without dealing with the consequences.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
One would think that this is Minaya's last year with the Mets
So this might end up working out for JD either way.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Tabloid Blogism at its finest...
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
More like Haploid Blogism
Since no post ever mentions Greenberg
hmmm?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 5, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
FML.
"Stats are like a woman in a fine little bikini. You can see a lot, but you can't see everything." -Dirk A. Tron
rabble rabble rabble
I’m not going to jump off any cliff at this point. Kevin Towers with a flush farm system and flush pocketbooks can probably build a pretty stout team.
The people acting like Kevin Towers running our team is a doomsday scenario crack me up. The guy is a pretty legit GM. I am not eager to see JD rushed out the door, and I’d like to see him given a chance to finish what he’s started, but if the reigns are handed over to Towers, that’s not the worst thing that could happen.
Now Gilbert running this whole thing himself, that makes me a little more nervous. I am very curious to know what sort of budget we’d be working with under him.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Kevin Towers
He doesn’t concern me.
Dennis Gilbert doing his best imitation of Jerry Jones concerns me greatly.
by Darrell McKown on Dec 5, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
the difference is that Gilbert
is a legit baseball man, more than Jones was a football man when he took over.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Hmmmm, Jerry Jones
hired Jimmy Johnson, won three Super Bowls in four years, kept as many core players as he could, went out and signed Deion Sanders, found a way to make the organization (which was very stagnant and not a moneymaker in the late 80s) very profitable thru key revenue sources, hired Bill Parcells when the team was in trouble and has them in a pretty good position in 2009….what would be wrong with having a Jerry Jones type owner with the Rangers?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
We lose Nolan.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
Gotta go against the grain don'tcha?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
to be fair
he makes a good point. Jerry Jones has been very good to the Dallas Cowboys and their fanbase…
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Oh, I understand that, I have no problem with JJ the owner AT ALL...
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
Except
When he ruined the team for a decade thinking he was a great personnel guy. Then he brought in Big Bill who turned it around and you can see the upcoming decade of suck with drafts like the last one.
Jones leveraged the future
to win in the present during the mid 1990’s, and it paid off by having a very successful five year run. Building a team is a very cyclical process, and we could have very easily gone the way of the 49ers as our great players aged, but instead Jones learned from his mistake and brought in a staff with Parcells that built up a team that, in my opinion, has been one of the most talented teams fielded over the past three years.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
we've had a strong scouting department
for a while now…the draft most people point to was the Sherman Williams draft back in 1995 when we were “drafting for backups”. Since that time, we’ve had much more success…
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
We drafted for backups Jerry's 1st draft after Parcells
And they realized their error and came back with an extremely strong draft. Last year, we were pinching every penny, also, our roster was pretty full. Pinching pennies so we could afford to lock up the best OLB in football.
Last year the cowboys didn't have a big draft
because we traded for an over rated under performing WR.
What do voluntary mean?
And once again decided that they didn't
see/need any starters in this draft, so (along with pinching pennies) they went for quantity over quality.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 6, 2009 11:48 PM CST up reply actions
Aren't the Cowboys 8-3 right now?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
February 6, 2008
he was born.
By February 6, 2010, he might be dead.
NOT TWO YEARS AFTER THAT GLORIOUS DAY!!
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
December Swoon
December Swoon is upon us and if you look, the Cowboys have had an extremely easy schedule. No real challenges on the schedule. They haven’t played a legit team yet.
I'm not a Cowboy fan
and in my objective view, I think they’re going to finish 11-5 and win the NFC East.
That’s pretty good.
The problem this year is that there are two superpowers in the NFC and the Cowboys aren’t going to advance to the NFC Championship.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
They'll finish more like...
9 and 7 tied with NY and Green Bay and sit at home another year and watch the play-offs.
Tom Ciskowski would like a word with you
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Bleh
I’ve said this before, but I’m not a Towers fan. It would be a shame if things worked out this way.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 5, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
why not?
I think Towers has a great baseball track record. The ironic thing about him, though, is that he has a reputation for being a great low budget GM.
Or at least I hope that would be ironic…
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
No he doesn't
but I don’t want to rehash the same exact debate we’ve had before again until he is actually hired or Gilbert is at least owner.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 5, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
we've already debated
about Kevin Towers?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Not you and I
but just a couple of weeks ago there was a discussion about Towers’ track record, and I talked about some of my concerns.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 5, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
oh, I missed that
I’d have enjoyed it, since I’m right with you with not caring much about Towers.
Go Rice Owls!
You just weirdly...
care a lot about Tom Hicks.
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 5, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't want Hicks to stay
I just don’t want a meddling owner who wants to disrupt this very good trajectory the team is on.
Go Rice Owls!
Nail in the coffin.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
Then let us...
pray for Greenberg, my friend.
by ghostofErikThompson on Dec 5, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Believe me, I am
I really want Greenberg to be the owner, because the only reason I’ve been babbling about how Hicks isn’t the worst thing possible is because I’m worried that what Gilbert represents is.
Go Rice Owls!
oops
I was confused by GoET’s response, and I realized I should have said “not caring much FOR Towers”
Go Rice Owls!
So you are agreeing now?
Or do you still argue that Hicks should not be divested at all costs?
Because that has already happened.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
I never said I wanted to keep Hicks
I’ve always said he needs to go. I just don’t think it is fair to demonize him.
Go Rice Owls!
He should be demonized
for the quotes about how unfortunate it was that the Stars won a Cup with some spending. I was done with him the moment he uttered that retarded statement.
Greenberg
needs to prove to Hicks in his proposal that keeping Nolan and JD around to finish what they started, plus the additional money he would fund the team with to push them over the top, would be better for the area long term in terms of $.
Than having Jerry Jones 2.0 misguide the ship for 2010-2020.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 1:07 PM CST reply actions
why do you think
that an intensely competitive baseball man is going to make running this thing into the ground his first priority?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Because there are many people trying to be Jerry Jones, but very few succeeding.
Greenberg strikes me as an extremely self-aware individual.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
The road to Rangers fans' hell
is paved with good intentions.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
I don't think anyone...
…has to prove jack to Hicks except that, in the words of Lenny Dykstra, he has all the cheddar.
As Galloway and Reeves pointed out months ago, Hicks no longer has control of this team. MLB and, to a degree, the banks do. Whoever comes up with the most money the quickest will end up owning the club.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 5, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Ding ding ding.
That’s hilarious, btw.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
The DePo fanboys are fascinating to me
As I said at BTF, it is as if every Nick Burns (“Your company’s computer guy!”) out there who is a baseball fan has latched onto DePodesta as symbolic of how (in their view) super-competent types who don’t schmooze or kiss butt get screwed over in corporate America.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 5, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
I wanna check that out, what is BTF?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
I'm assuming you're "lonestarball" in the comments section?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
lol..awesome.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
I have a hard time
judging their GMs independent of Logan White, since his contributions have dominated their success. I think that Colletti is a borderline idiot, and he’s won with White’s players, so what conclusion do you draw from that?
by Brett Perryman on Dec 5, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
I'm a Dodger fan (although I don't follow them nearly as close as the Rangers)
and I thought DePodesta was pretty good. He caught a ton of crap for the Loduca/Penny trade but was ultimately proven correct.
The Dodgers have had several young players & pitchers come barging through the system the last few years as well.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
His trades were definitely judged unfairly. But I guess what I’m saying is that White was around for DePodesta, and when I don’t feel like giving Colletti credit for players drafted by White ( and mostly during DePodesta’s tenure), I’m not sure how much credit I should be giving DePodesta for that either, since White was already kind of an institution for his tenure as well.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 5, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Another thing that concerns me about Gilbert
It doesn’t sound like he/his group are exactly flush with cash. It sounds like they are doing enough to buy the team, but I question how much they’ll be able to invest in the product on the field.
Isn't Greenberg in the same financial
range as Gilbert?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Not 2 MF years.
Not 2.
Express, for sure.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
My understanding is...
…Greenberg has more money than Gilbert.
Gilbert is more of a frontman for investors.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 5, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
AJM sees the light in the rat race.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Greenberg is some kind of attorney who also dabbled
with the Pittsburgh Penguins and a few minor league teams, correct?
I viewed Dubya as the front man for a bunch of investors in the early 90s and it sounds like Gilbert will have a far more substantial role.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
He came, He saw, He conquered.
JW.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
He has to have some money
but as I understand it the group has significant financial backing from the guy that helped Greenberg/Lemieux get the Pittsburgh Penguins sale pushed through. The guy is a multibillionaire.
Isnt that the case?
That is kind of a common theme for all of these bids
None of them are loaded.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 5, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
And none of us
should have our hopes up that the Rangers will suddenly have a $90-100M payroll.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
During the 1st 5 years of ownership don't they get to write off/down salaries or something? (not a finance guy)
AJM pointed that out the other day..
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
I have a plan....
bump the payroll by 20mm the 1st year, then another 20mm the next (spend wisely)
Hopefully we win, attendance goes up then we can jack hot dog prices by .50, beer by .50, ‘chos by another .50 and maybe have a booth in Center Field where patrons can kick Rangers Captain in the nuts for a 10 spot. We continue to bump payroll and winning continues we can phase in something including Knox and Renner so we don’t have to raise concession prices any more…
Gold?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
Trade Rangers Captain for JW
no need to be cruel to mascots, no matter how stupid or sorry they are.
I'm terrified of what is going to happen with this team...
if Gilbert wins out.
I feel like we’re about to hit the reset button right when we’ve gotten to the final level of the game.
"you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?" - Josey Wales
by cmkelly29 on Dec 5, 2009 2:06 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
+1
Exactly how I feel.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
this is what it all boils down to
Many, many people around here seem to have this same concern, and I just can’t figure out why. If Gilbert buys and the team and runs off JD, it isn’t like all of JD’s work will be gone. We will still have a loaded farm system and a good collection of young players at the ML level under our control for many years to come.
Again, I think it is a “devil you know” situation and everyone is terrified of Gilbert and Towers because we saw, as Rangers fans, how not to run a baseball as expertly illustrated by Hart and Daniels between 2000-2007. Towers doesn’t have a history of squandering prospects in trades like Hart did, and he’s already gone through the growing pains that we witnessed with Daniels. He’s had little to know money to work with for almost all of this decade in SD and he had a poor scouting director who mainly drafted unathletic college players for his farm system because they are the cheapest to sign.
I may be naive, but I am just ready for resolution, and I can’t imagine an ownership situation being worse than post 2004 Tom Hicks.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
How many times do you see new GMs come in
and keep everything in place. Unless someone is retiring (and not forced to retire), a new GM comes in with the expectation that he’ll make changes. Otherwise, what was the point of getting rid of the original GM? I don’t see any way Towers would come here and not make some changes. It might turn out well, but he’d be messing with what is already a good situation which couldn’t get much better or at least, has a lot more that can go wrong.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Right
and even more specifically, many of the mistakes that the Rangers’ previous GMs have made were early in their tenures with players they inherited. Hart with Hafner in particular, among a few others (one could argue ARod and Pudge). Daniels with Gonzalez, Danks, and Young. Melvin with Aurilia and Nen, among others.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 5, 2009 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
Actually, I take that back on Nen
Grieve dealt him.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 5, 2009 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
A new GM would change the standard of accountability
Currently, JD is 100% accountable, but a new GM would not be initially accountable for what he inherited and if the team isn’t faring as well as expected, the temptation is going to be to find fault with “the old plan” and to implement a new one. Likely, the new one would involve a change of strategy and more than a few personnel changes.
JD has been ZERO accountable.
Heck, around here, he walks on water and has never done anything wrong in his life…or his previous life, if you’re into that.
JD's accountability is not "around here"
And I think his initial efforts after becoming GM have been well-chronicled here.
Because I'm afraid Gilbert will want to sell the farm..
and if that happens, I think it might ruin baseball for me for quite a while.
"you stupid motherfucker?!?!!?" - Josey Wales
bingo
that to me, is the real concern
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Dec 5, 2009 7:22 PM CST up reply actions
but why?
what has indicated that he will come in here and just run roughshod through all of our org, trading prospects for nickels on the dollar just to field a .500 team? Any person with a modicum of baseball knowledge can see the foundation that we have here.
There is just a lot of irrational paranoia going on around here, especially from some people who I have a great deal of respect for, and I cannot understand why. When it comes to our front office, we aren’t trade good for bad, we are trading “eh” for the unknown.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I've never liked Towers much
as someone who has lived in San Diego and followed the Padres peripherally. How much of his past success is a factor of the Padres particular situation (almost Cubs-like in their fan support, at a much smaller level; their W-L record doesn’t change their mediocre popularity), or the Alderson/DePodesta silliness that AJM points out above.
Regardless, I have always been bothered by the general approach behind how the Padres construct their team and organization. They draft absolutely terribly, almost Houston or Kansas City-esque, despite usually having decent location in the first round. They never built a team appropriate for their ballpark: in a giant park in damp cool air where power does you little good, they avoided the one aspect of the offensive game not affected: speed. Meanwhile, they also basically gave the opposing team the running game (their pitchers and catchers routinely give up something like 80-90% SB rate). They seem to have trouble finding pitchers who can throw strikes, though in their ballpark they shouldn’t worry about home runs and just get guys who pitch to contact.
Its almost as if Towers looked at the optimal Sabermetric lessons for the whole league and tries to apply them to what is really a special case club.
Go Rice Owls!
This current Ranger team is at the point where they need a GM
who knows how to make moves that help the major league team win (which is something that has always been JD’s most glaring weakness).
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Do you have pictures of JD with his eyes torn out hanging all over your walls?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
in your stupid opinion
..it’s one of his weaknesses.
by Black Francis on Dec 5, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
Look what happened to this team after 2005
if you need proof.
So many in here believe that because there appears to be so much talent in the pipeline that JD “deserves” a chance to see This Thing through to have success at the major league level.
Bullshit. He had his chance four years ago and ran This Thing into the ground.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Hard lessons
have obviously been learned. I fear turning over the reigns to someone who will probably have to learn the hard way. Change is always tough… even good change. Therefore I feel their will be a step back if a new owner comes, the Prez leaves, GM gets the boot, and then the impressive baseball evaluating structure gets flushed as well. It takes a long time to get things set like TX has them now.
"Purity of heart is to will one thing" - Kierkegaard
But this organization wouldn't be turned over to
somebody (like JD when he was hired) who didn’t know what the hell he was doing.
Towers, Gilbert know the ropes and while mistakes will happen we won’t have to endure some kind of learning curve.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
by Josey Wales on Dec 5, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I completely agree with this
people act like Gilbert (and Towers) has/have no idea about the game of baseball.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I think one would be hard-pressed to argue...
…that it is something that is a strength.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 5, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
And we're at the point (good young team on the field and one of the better
minor league systems in MLB two years running) that we need to concern ourselves with making moves that get us to the next level…95-100 wins and in the post-season 3 out of every 4 years.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
you keep saying we should model ourselves after the phillies
but, aside from the cliff lee trade, what impact player on their roster wasnt home grown or a fairly minor free agent signing? the ibanez deal looks pretty silly now. lidge gave them one good year, blanton was a trade thats probably a wash. werth was a good free agent signing i guess.
every other good player on their team came up from their minor leagues, kinda like what we’re wanting to see from the rangers here.
is there any reason to believe JD cant sign a jayson werth and get lucky with a desperate front office (like you say he did with atlanta) in the form of a cliff lee?
I agree with Josey
in that JD has shown the ability to build a very strong scouting and development system, but his moves at the major league level have consistently been merely adequate and usually much worse. Now lately he has been undercut by the financial situation…
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I think...
…when Tom Hicks is your boss, it’s something like being Secretary of State under George W. Bush. There’s not a hell of a lot you can do.
Stocking the system with talent is extremely important. It’s really the only way to achieve sustainable success, and to win a World Series you either need sustained success (more than one shot at it) or you need to catch lightning in a bottle.
by Black Francis on Dec 5, 2009 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
you cannot excuse JD's mistakes
at the ML level simply because he has an incompetent boss. Hicks had nothing to do with his earlier, disastrous moves.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
The Eaton Deal, etc
I’m very well aware of those mistakes, and just like you said, they were earlier. It seems to me the franchise has recovered pretty well under Daniels.
by Black Francis on Dec 6, 2009 12:07 AM CST up reply actions
Whats the rush?
Why are we pushing to win now? Last year we were at least a year early, we got nearly zip from Harrison, Hurley, Holland, and Feliz. 2 of those 4 will definitely be major factors in the pitching staff all of next year, and for a couple of years to come. Davis, for all his suckitude, is only 23, and had at least 4 more years before his peak. Elvis is only 20. The team in general is young and hungry. but because they re young there will be growing pains. If they go 83-79 next year, is that a failure? what about 77 and 85? 57 and 105?
Is there a precent in MLB
for this kind of owner/GM “Jerry Jones” type we’re all so paranoid about? I can’t think of one in the last couple decades…
Obviously budget determines every MLB GM’s range of motion. That’s not what I mean.
I’m talking about the owner making personnel decisions as a matter of title, or even in a thorough, everyday de facto way.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
Actually
I don’t even know that Gilbert would want to make personnel decisions as a matter of title or whatever. I think that he wants to do what Nolan Ryan is doing now, and I don’t like that either. There is a key difference, too. Nolan still answers to someone. If it is clear that he drags the franchise into a hole, he can be fired. When Jerry Jones does it, he has no one to answer to. I suppose that Gilbert would still have investors to satisfy, but he would be in a different position from Nolan.
by Brett Perryman on Dec 5, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
Why...
Does it feel like the closer this team gets to being sold do I feel like we’re going to get a swift kick to the nuts as fans? I was initially very excited about 2 “baseball guys” vieing for the Rangers but the more info that comes out, particularly what I’ve heard of Gilbert, it just seems like we’re all about to get bent over for the long run
by Tyler H on Dec 5, 2009 4:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
There's no choice involved.
Unfortunately, the fans won’t get a vote on the new owner.
Adam has outlined what will be happening: a rat race to provide the banks and MLB with the most money in the quickest amount of time.
/ Signing off for the day.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 5, 2009 4:59 PM CST up reply actions
Orioles fans would likely throw Angelos' name out there.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: "Can't take a fucking to save their lives" (lisa w, 2009).
OT: Fanhouse rates Josh Lewin as the sixth best
play-by-play guy in the majors.
"Blister please, with those wings in your spine.
Love to be with a brother of mine.
How he'd love to find your tongue in his teeth,
In a struggle to find secret songs that you keep,
Wrapped in boxes so tight, sounding only at night as you sleep." ~Jeff Mangum; Neutral Milk Hotel
Thank God someone else thinks
Hawk Harrelson is the worst… that guy makes me want to jab a knife into my ears
Just a note: that's television only, right?
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: "Can't take a fucking to save their lives" (lisa w, 2009).
Yes sir.
"Blister please, with those wings in your spine.
Love to be with a brother of mine.
How he'd love to find your tongue in his teeth,
In a struggle to find secret songs that you keep,
Wrapped in boxes so tight, sounding only at night as you sleep." ~Jeff Mangum; Neutral Milk Hotel
Nice sig, by the way.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: "Can't take a fucking to save their lives" (lisa w, 2009).
haha, so we get rid of an owner who lets his baseball people do all the work
to a owner who is hands on, will fire the best GM the Rangers ever had, and hire a guy who was just fired?
yay
"Clearly, I've been wrong. VY is awesome." - AJM
Wait
Gilbert is going to fire Tom Grieve? I thought everyone liked the work Grieve was doing on the broadcasts, and it was Lewin that needed to go?
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 6, 2009 12:49 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You said he was going to fire the best GM the Rangers ever had
That would be Grieve.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 6, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
oh, not to me
all things equal, you’d really take Grieve over JD?
"Clearly, I've been wrong. VY is awesome." - AJM
I think Grieve did a better job as g.m.
Than Daniels has so far.
by Adam J. Morris on Dec 6, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
'the best GM the Rangers ever had"?
either you are being ironic or you are under the age of ten.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Longhorn
is the extreme pole on one end of the Daniels spectrum, Josey is the other.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Dec 6, 2009 6:44 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, i will admit
i’m a big fan of JD. But, it’s because of how he’s operated as GM…the reasonable analysis behind most of his moves.
"Clearly, I've been wrong. VY is awesome." - AJM
I'm reccing this because you just made me picture Josey pole dancing for a living
Disgusting, yet also hilarious.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
by LSJ on Dec 6, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions

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