The Orioles are trying to trade for Rangers right-hander Kevin Millwood to serve as an anchor to a young starting rotation and are offering outfielder Felix Pie.
about 2 years ago
Adam J. Morris
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No
Thanksgiving is already over. I’ve already had my slice of pie and much like that holiday, this one looks like a pumpkin.
um, no thanks. im not dumb enough to assume we could get jones in that deal, but id rather roll milly out there then get stuck with pie
Nobody is perfect, i am nobody, therefore, i am perfect
by 34express on Dec 8, 2009 12:35 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Not the least bit interested
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 8, 2009 12:36 PM CST reply actions
It's amazing to me
that teams assume the Rangers are desperate for a CF.
it's not the CF need
I think it’s the perceived need to shed payroll, so they’re just tossing names out there
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 8, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
Considering outfield depth isn't out weakness...
Probably not. But that’s a decent offer, as Pie’s a great fielder and has improved over the past year with the bat. Considering Millwood statistically had his worst season in quite awhile, it’s not a bad deal. The problem for me is that we only get 1 year of Pie at the true discounted pre-arbitration price.
Pardon me all to hell for stretching him by 4 MF'n outs
And the question remains the same. How many of Millwood’s 198.2 innings is Pie going to pitch?
So never trade a pitcher for a hitter.
Sounds like a great plan.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 8, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
Millwood is worth more to the team then Pie would be next year.
Ask yourself if your planning to compete next year. If you are then you need Millwood or someone to play a bigger part on the team than Pie likely would here.
What do voluntary mean?
but if we can flip Pie
for Heath Bell, is that still the case?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
then do a three way deal
don’t trade for Pie unless you already have him flipped already
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
two arb years left...
they want a catcher and a CF.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
bell has little value to them going forward
he was 31 last year, and somehow upped his k/9 by 2 full points
+ they need a CF (unless one believes gwyn jr is the long term solution – he isnt) and have blanks, venables, headley, and co in COF
so if they can move bell and replace him w/ gregorson (stats here) and get anywhere near the same stats (non saves) as bell AND add patch other holes AND save $$ its a no brainer
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
I think I know you better than this
You dont really think theyd trade Heath Bell for Felix “waiver claim” Pie do you?
Millwood is likely worth more than a RP
to the team as currently constructed. Bell is a nice pitcher entering his second arbitration year after having a solid season as a closer. Figure Millwood and about 7 million in savings for Bell.
The only that works out is if you can actually land one of the oft injured potential TORPs with that 7. If not you likely fixed something that wasn’t an issue at the cost of something that likely is an issue.
That would also assume that we have a preset budget and when we shed 7 million in payroll that we aren’t told by the MLB that we can’t use it.
What do voluntary mean?
heath bell
is also 32, and had a career year last year AND is a Closer on a bad team
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
not likely to get the torp
for 7 mil considering what penny just got from the cards. 9 mil eek
Then it becomes a really bad deal.
Though getting Sheets/Harden for 7 a year is still somewhat likely. Penny, while not as high upside, is significantly more reliable. Sheets I’ll bet ends up at 5 million a year, unless some team just spikes it.
What do voluntary mean?
Penny's deal helps us rid ourselves of Millwood's salary.
It set the bar higher for that tier of pitcher. Helps us a lot.
Penny got that
but Sheets and Harden won’t get that much money up front. Both will have to sign incentive laden deals which we can afford because we won’t be paying the back half until at least six months from now.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I think you're wrong on Harden.
What do voluntary mean?
Depends on what you project for them.
If the improvements Pie made last summer in Baltimore hold and he can hit .800 next year (he hit .843 in the second half), then he would be a ~.350 wOBA/8-10 wRAA (wOBA Runs Above Average) hitter. Once you include his defense, that’s a pretty good player. Rough guess: 2.5-3.0 WAR player.
Millwood was a 2.4 WAR player last year and is trending downward. So on a pure value scale/in a vacuum, it’s possible that Pie would be worth the same or more than Millwood next year.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Not sold yet on Pie
He basically rode an unexpected power streak to his good post ASB numbers.
It looks like one of the main differences between his august and his september is 3 HRs. The other difference is 400 points of OPS. Just not sure I buy him as the 800 over all ops player. I’m thinking I’m seeing a possible Kinsler without the upside type of player. Not sure we want another player that streaky in here.
Maybe I’m wrong but I just see a guy that tops out as a 800 ops player, and has to hit 300 or better to do it.
What do voluntary mean?
wow
I am a little bit shocked by the reaction around here. I’m not jumping at the deal, but it also ain’t a slap in the face. Pie is a very good defensive OF who had an .843 OPS after the ASB last year when he finally saw regular playing time.
We may not think we need him, but this is a long offseason and other teams may actually want a toolsy OF with solid defense and a potentially improving bat as part of another trade.
Get out of your vacuums, people.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I agree
I think it’s a decent offer, particularly if it frees up some cash. That said, I basically don’t favor trading Millwood.
Not mediocre. Right about average
I believe Pie is
not arb eligible yet so he will only cost ~$5M. He could serve as the 5th OF. Not sure if he has options. It all depends upon how much $$ the Orioles want the rangers to pay.
|Space for Rent|
he is another lefty
otherwise he’d be a nice platoon candidate with Murphy and make a lot more sense as a fifth OF.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
We don't need a toolsy OF though
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
but other teams might
did you read my post?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I don't think you trade Millwood for a guy you hope to trade later on
Because if you can’t find a trade partner either you end up selling him very low to get rid of him or we just traded Pie for a 4th OF. Not a good deal IMO.
If you have a trade lined up to send Pie then ok we can talk
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Make it a 3 way deal then
No reason to make a trade for another trade to happen only to see that fall through.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
the problem with acquiring Pie only
is that after getting him, we’d have Josh, Nelson, Borbon, Pie, Murphy at OF and little room to get all 5 quality at bats…UNLESS we moved Cruz/Hamilton to a DH platoon and gave Pie and Borbon a share of CF, allowing Murphy to play wherever the DH wasn’t. This could solve our DH problems.
But additionally, it opens up a gaping hole in our rotation…not so much that we don’t have arms we COULD throw out there, but there goes your staff anchor. So if making this move frees up some money to throw at say, Rich Harden AND Ben Sheets, I’m all aboard…
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 8, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
And once again if this moves Cruz to DH permanently
The I think you have to look into trading him and seeing what you could get in return
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I said Cruz/Hamilton platoon
and I don’t necessarily agree with your assessment that if Cruz was a full time DH (still backing up in the OF) that it would necessitate trading him…but looking into it sure, why not?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 8, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think we'd keep all the above names around
but any scenario that results in more DH time for Hamilton is okay with me.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
problem is I don't see Hamilton playing much DH
Based on his comments in the past about how he doesn’t like it and doesn’t feel in the flow of the game I feel it would force Cruz to DH before Hamilton
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
well too f#%king bad
stay healthy and we’ll talk
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 8, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
he shouldn't be a full time DH
but if we can bump his games as a DH from 15 to 50, he will probably hold up a lot better…
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I think the Rangers are hoping moving to a COF spot will help him hold up
so they don’t have to DH him given his dislike of the position and how he struggles when there
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Why are you referring to comments he made over a year ago (was it 2 years ago now?)
Hamilton has said before he’ll play wherever the team wants him to play and he is far from the type that would bitch about a move like that or let it affect his game negatively
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Cause I think moving positions in the field is alot different than moving from the field to DH
It is a completely different animal. In the field theres always something to keep you tuned into the game. As the DH you have a ton of free time on your hands and then have to re-gear yourself to go and hit.
I just don’t see Hamilton as the type that would do well in that spot for 50 games or whatever. 15-20 sure thats probably ok but any more than that and I do think it could have some serious affect on him and if you are affecting him seriously you are affecting the entire team.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I agree, Steve,
but I’m still concerned about Hambone’s durability. I think his health will have him DH’ing more than that. Definitely hope not, but I’m trying to be a realist.
"If this video was an ice cream flavor, it'd be pralines and dick." Clark
re: Matthew Wilder-Break My Stride, 4/17/09
The O's fans I know are pissed....
They seem to think Pie is worth well more than Millwood…
Link
Pretty passionate fan base, but like everyone else they really love their own prospects.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
Pie's more valuable long-term than Millwood.
I’d be pissed if we sold off Pie for an overrated pitcher, too, especially considering their young pitching depth.
Flip Pie to the Padres
We reportedly asked about Heath Bell and the Pads were looking for catching and a CF.
Texas Rangers, sometimes they are the windshield, sometimes they are the bug — Evan Grant
by SonnyKoufaxLSU on Dec 8, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
You can also flip David Murphy in that situation.
And keep Pie as our backup CF and the lefty-hitting LF.
Good idea
But then we end up trading Millwood and Murphy for Pie and Bell. Sounds like the Rangers lose in that one, but its a start.
by Andrew in Boston on Dec 8, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
it isn't just about the players
it is about the money as well. We would shed quite a bit if that deal went down, and I would personally be very pleased with trading Millwood and Murphy for Pie and Bell (even though the Murphy for Bell part of that equation doesn’t work).
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I was just thinking the same thing.
Better defense, more versatility are givens, and potentially better hitting than the .786 OPS/.339 wOBA that Murphy put up last year.
I wonder if you trade Murphy to Baltimore so they have insurance in Adam Jones gets hurt again.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 8, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I wasn't trying to balance the deal...
…just trying to fill the needs of the major league teams involved.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
so you would trade Millwood for Heath Bell straight up?
puke
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 8, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
one year of Millwood at $12M
for the last two arb years of Bell seems like a pretty good deal to me.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
the second comment made me LOL.
This better be false.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
It's done
@SI_JonHeyman yanks to get granderson, e. jackson, i. kennedy to dbacks, scherzer, schlereth, a. jax, coke to tigers.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Damn
SI_JonHeyman yanks to get granderson, e. jackson, i. kennedy to dbacks, scherzer, schlereth, a. jax, coke to tigers.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Dec 8, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
I guess
it depends on how much the recipient teams think Kennedy and Coke are going to rebound/develop. Coke had a ton of value a year ago but the shine wore off, and Kennedy has been stunted the past two years.
Jackson is the only real stud in that group.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
This was my initial reaction
They replaced AJax with his ceiling and gave up two other easily replaceable (especially for the Yankees) arms.
by LiamP on Dec 8, 2009 12:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Time to target Granderson in fantasy drafts
He’ll hit 30-35 bombs easy in that stadium.
by LiamP on Dec 8, 2009 12:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
and how many vs LHP?
lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
i love when big, complicated trades go down.
sucks for the DBacks though.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Guess that scratches the Dbacks off the list of potential suitors for Millwood
I think Luke French has a lot of potential. TORP potential.-Dstar
perhaps
but I bet they call us back and offer Kennedy for Millwood.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Cash would be heavily involved in that situation.
We’d have to pitch in quite a lot, as their budget will be hit by Jackson’s pending arbitration salary.
are the DBacks
another team with tight purse strings these days?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Always have been.
They’re generally near where we are most of the time, though they usually spend less in the draft.
Are Jackson and Kennedy that much better
than Scherzer and Schlereth? Good deal for the Tigers. Maybe same for the Yankees.
|Space for Rent|
I think Scherzer is the best arm in that deal
no doubt. but he’s got the injury ? mark
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 8, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
Damnit.
I hate it when the Yankees get better.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 8, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
Effing Yankees and their effing fans.
Poster over at fangraphs:
RKO36 says:
December 8, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Just a few hours ago I didn’t want this deal to happen, but now I’m warming up on it. You’re a lot more enthusiastic than me. It’s hard to watch one of your team’s top prospects be traded, but like you said Granderson is a 4 win 28 year old center fielder. I guess this is a good move for the Yankees.
This is the first post after an entire article from Dave Cameron talking about how the Yankees made out like bandits.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
to be fair
Yankees fans aren’t used to giving up anything of value, as most of their player acquisitions are via FA or a firesale.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
And why would this cause me to be fair to them?
This just makes me look for a sharper object.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Sorry...
…missed it in the rage.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Just thinking about this...
The Yankees are putting themselves in a position to continually refurbish their lineup. Granderson’s contract will be running out at the same time that Slade Heathcott is supposed to be ready. I wonder if they’re starting to line up their prospects to take over spots like that.
Wasn't Jackson almost ready anyway?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
They probably don't believe he's an impact starter.
I don’t think many people do believe that anymore. No pop, not much speed, very lucky with the BABIP. They know what they’re getting with Granderson, and they believe Heathcott will be a huge prospect a few years from now.
he could be pretty good in the NL...
at least decent
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
pretty early
to project Heathcotts date of arrival…
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Every team designs a system for a top prospect's steps up the ladder.
Heathcott projects as someone that probably needs a full year of Low-A and High-A, then a year of AA and AAA combined. That sets him for 2013.
heathcott is gonna be a guy thats hard to predict anyway
in part cuz of his injury-prone last year
fwiw, he is also a guy who could fallback as a pitcher (can throw in 80s as a RHP evidently — and in 90s as a LHP i believe)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
yea
very true
now if he can just stay off of the ’roids he should be in good shape
hes one hell of an athlete, thats for sure
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
That's the depressing thing.
The Yankees used to care mainly about signing the big free agent or acquiring big name players through salary dumps. While this lead to them having very good teams, it also left them susceptible to injury because the players were on the wrong side of the age curve. Their developing ability to target the right players at younger ages means that it will be even more difficult to overcome their incredible financial advantage.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Uh oh...
They’re learning…like velociraptors.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
hah
freakin’ love Bryan Brown in that movie
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 8, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
I think guys like Teixeira and Burnett are due for some serious regression next year
Tex’s bRA was +.48-(), but if you take away his right-handed at-bats and all games in which he wore the No. 24, it drops to 29.
Burnett is a different kind of beast though. His yT&T² was +40/-12, but in day games he was a bloodening +22 ¾
by oc on Dec 9, 2009 12:46 AM CST up reply actions
I'm enjoying this ..
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 12:55 AM CST up reply actions
Counter Offer
How about Reimold? He can’t field but he can hit and is a patient RH bat under control for a while which is exactly what we need. Just a thought….
Reimold
isn’t one of the loose Jinga blocks. They love the idea of Reimold, Markakis and Jones anchoring their OF for years to come, which is why they are probably undervaluing Pie a little bit. It’s called the AGon effect.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Yes, but...
…UZR hated Reimold last year: -10.8.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 8, 2009 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
Because, hey
it’s just that simple…. not.
"we’re a bunch of knee-jerking yahoos who like new and shiny things." -- FirebatM3 July 10, 2009
I'm not a fan of that deal
but it’s hardly an outrageous offer.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
hahaha
@jonahkeri The only logical explanation for the #DBacks at this point is that Max Scherzer has been diagnosed with leprosy.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
WTF JD?
Baltimore was the “hottest” among the number of teams interested in Kevin Millwood but may have cooled off some; Texas was interested in righthander Chris Tillman (good grief — that would have been a spectacular deal) but the Orioles instead offered righthanders David Hernandez and Brandon Erbe (not a terrible offer by any means), though both have physical issues (local report)
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Jump on that deal!
Jesus
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Dec 8, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
No kidding.
I wonder if that means they didn’t offer both Hernandez and Erbe together, but just offered both as a choice.
I hate when details like this leak
because on the face of it, that seems to obvious to pass up. I wonder how much cash we were sending.
Bah!
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
For both those guys I would imagine 6-10 million
probably closer to 10 than 6
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
x
There is apparently a “cavernous gulf” between what the Rangers want and what they can get. It’s a pretty appropriate description when you learn that they asked for Chris Tillman. The Orioles would rather flip David Hernandez or Brandon Erbe. They’ll either find a compromise, or look for a match elsewhere.
I could be enticed
to kick in something to get Tillman, but I’m guessing they still wouldn’t bite, and neither would I were I in their place.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Balt would've picked up no salary if that was the case
maybe that’s why it was turned down.
I think Luke French has a lot of potential. TORP potential.-Dstar
That's the only reason I can see for turning down that deal if it was offered
I think Luke French has a lot of potential. TORP potential.-Dstar
T.R. per Jamey
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
linky?
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
Newberg E-mail
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Subscribe to Jamey's mailing list and you'll get the TROT COFFEY* mailings
*Trade Rumor Offerings To Chew On For Fun, Even Yuks, not to be confused with Brewers journeyman reliever Todd Coffey
someone, someday
has to come up with a better name for these emails…
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
i did
I have been dropped 4 times from his list. I pretty much gave up trying to the Newbergreport in email…
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
Are you using Hotmail?
That’s the only service that involuntarily dumps its users off my mailing list. Weird.
by Jamey Newberg on Dec 8, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Hmm...I've never had that problem and I use hotmail.
by TooLegitToQuit on Dec 8, 2009 1:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not a Hotmail user so I don't know what settings you need to activate to avoid getting dropped....
….but about 3 or 4 times a month, I get an email from a subscriber telling me they were somehow dropped from the list without them knowing why. Every single time it’s a Hotmail user.
by Jamey Newberg on Dec 8, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Not every time
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
Hi, Keith. Is this the year Edinson Volquez finally wins RoY?
That's not what he said
It’s not that you always get dropped if you use hotmail, it’s that if you get dropped it’s always because of hotmail.
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
Heh, I know that
I don’t have hotmail, and I’ve been dropped 3 times.
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
Hi, Keith. Is this the year Edinson Volquez finally wins RoY?
Same here, I've been a Hotmail subscriber with no drops since summer 2005
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
How do you get dropped from a mailing list 4 times?
Are you spamming his inbox?
by TooLegitToQuit on Dec 8, 2009 1:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
lol
hotmail hates me or Jamey…
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
My work email was dropped 3 times about a year ago
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
Hi, Keith. Is this the year Edinson Volquez finally wins RoY?
It sounds like the ingredients are all there
I like Pie, Hernandez and Erbe to varying degrees. I think Pie ultimately projects as an above average OF when you factor in his defense. Hernandez has a decent FB and a plus slider so he should at least be a good bullpen arm if his CU never materializes. And Erbe had a solid AFL and is a decent middle to back end starter prospect.
We don’t know how much money Baltimore is asking for, but it sounds like there are other suiters, so we could actually shed Millwoods contract and get something of value, which would be phenomenal work by JD.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I just don't think we are trying to shed his salary
We need something that would impact the MLB team this year if we trade Millwood.
What do voluntary mean?
we may say we aren't
but we are. We have no extra money and his salary can be allocated more effectively another way. We could go into next year having down nothing and keeping his salary, but I think (hope) JD has bigger and better plans to improve this team.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Pie
I’m almost opposed to trading for him, just because of all the cornball pie-related references Lewin (if he’s back in 2010) will make during the games.
"Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."
You have your opinion
I just don’t see it as being correct, along with many people here. This team is attempting to contend next year. Removing a middle of the rotation innings eater doesn’t make this team more likely to compete if you haven’t already signed replacements.
Also the assumption that the Rangers would get to spend the money they save by dumping Millwood could be false also. If we shed his salary it sounds like its up to the MLB if we would actually get to spend that. Who says they don’t tell us, nope that money doesn’t go into your spending pool. There’s too many moving pieces right now to make a slam dunk statement on this.
What do voluntary mean?
I don't think the MLB
is demanding we have a fire sale. I think this is just JD trying to reallocate his assets.
If things were actually so tight that we would have to give the saving directly to MLB, we wouldn’t have wasted precious money on the likes of Cla Rapada and Joe Inglett.
I just think people around here are severely overvaluing the total innings stat from Millwood, and undervaluing his horrible FIP. He was one of the luckiest pitchers in baseball last year. WE CAN BACKFILL HIS 200 INNINGS WITH GUYS LIKE MCCARTHY, HARRISON AND NIPPERT AND NOT MISS A BEAT.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
That's right...
I capped that shit.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on Dec 8, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Be careful you don't throw your arm out clapping yourself on the back
How do you replace the innings those guy were going to be counted on to give, probably right around 200-250. Anyway I’m not sure I’m willing to bet on them for 200+ league average innings anyway. You think I over value innings. I’m sure you are under valuing them. Millwood isn’t worth the 12 million. I won’t argue that. But you likely need the three guys your putting in there to cover your lost innings over the year, as I’m doubting anyone other than maybe McCarthy starts the year in the rotation.
And I’m sorry you can’t equate adding two end of the 40 man type players to adding a player with a legit 7 figure salary. You just can’t do it and be making a reasonable argument. Adding 800k in two utility/role players isn’t in the same league as chopping off on a 5+ million dollar deal or letting a team keep a 12 million dollar savings when its running in debt.
What do voluntary mean?
How does one clap a back?
Is that the answer to the riddle “what is the sound of one hand clapping?”
250 innings?! MLB IP Leaders:
2009: Verlander (240)
2008: Sabathia (253-only one above 250)
2007: Sabathia (241)
2006: Arroyo (240)
2005: L. Hernandez (241)
So once in the last 5 years.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
ugh reading comprehension
If McCarthy, Harrison, and Nippert cover the innings that Millwood would have given you then who is going to cover the innings McCarthy, Harrison, and Nippert are supposed to give you?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Moscoso? Mathis?
maybe even Kiker? Feliz is in there. The point is that we have the internal depth to cover those lost innings.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
If Moscoso, Mathis, or Kiker is in our rotation for up to 200 innings next year we have no shot
Thats the point
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
guh
they aren’t in your rotation…they are backfilling for guys like Feliz and Nippert, who I said could be in the rotation.
What is so hard to understand about a rotation of Sheets, Feldman, Holland, Hunter and BMac or Harrison or Nippert or Feliz? With guys like Moscoso, Mathis and Kiker also in the mix as bullpen/spot starter types?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Because WHEN Sheets goes down
And you start counting on Moscoso, Mathis, Kiker, etc for significant innings your playoff hopes go out the window.
Those guys should get no more than a spot start or two next year. Not potentially be on the hook for 1/3 or more of the season
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Mathis and Moscoso
both pitched much better than Millwood in their limited innings last year, but I understand how sample sizes work.
For those guys to get significant numbers of starts, more than just Sheets had to get injured, because that would mean Feliz, Harrison, McCarthy and Nippert were all being used as well.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
First of all I think Nippert stays in the pen this year except for the occasional emergency start
Second, Harrison and McCarthy (McCarthy especially) are both injury risks as well
I don’t know why this is so hard for you to grasp. Nobody is arguing that Millwood is great or anything. Mine, as well as others, contention is that this team and our rotation needs the reliability he brings even if its mediocre alot more than we need instability no matter how good that guy is when hes here.
To be honest im not building a team thinking about whos gonna pitch game 1 of the World Series right now. Im trying to build a team whos gonna give me the chance to be in the playoff hunt come September. Millwood gives me a better chance than Harden/Sheets does IMO even though Harden/Sheets are the better individual pitchers.
If come the ASB we are in contention then we can go out and pick up a Harden or Sheets. But picking them up now theres a very good chance they don’t make it to the ASB healthy and if Millwood isn’t here then we are looking at using guys who have no chance of getting us to the playoffs next year for significant innings.
Also both those guys pitched as relievers last year. Mathis was terrible in his starts.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Sheets
won’t even do a throwing audition for interested teams. That doesn’t make me real confident in his health
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 8, 2009 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
you make valid points
but, at least the way I have interpreted it, if we don’t move Millwoods salary, we are probably through with additions this offseason until NRI season comes around. That’s the crux of the matter for me. Either we go to battle with the team we currently have exactly as it is with the possible exception of whoever we can bring in on a minor league deal, or we move Millwood and try to get lucky on some incentive laden deals. Because I have zero confidence that Millwood will come close to putting up the numbers he did last year, the choice seems obvious to me.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I was in favor of keeping Millwood on the DL
so his option wouldn’t vest. So if we could trade him for Felix Pie, or anything of any value at all, I’d be ok with it.
Ranger fans say "NO! NO!" to Go Go.
Keep Reinsdorf's chub from ruining my club.
and since those lost innings
came with a FIP of 4.80, then I have faith they can be backfilled effectively, and possibly even more effectively, internally.
But that’s not the point. The point is that at least some of Millwood’s innings will hopefully be filled by someone like Sheets, who we could sign for a relatively low base salary ($5M or so) and then add on incentives that can be paid later on when our ownership situation is settled. The same type of deal could be built for a hitter like Dye.
I’ve typed this exact same idea one too many times today and am slowly slipping into insanity, so consider this my final answer.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I would do this deal
but then again, I wanted the Rangers to sit Millwood in September anyways, so that shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
anyone else interested in wang (NYY)?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
maybe they could muzzle josh?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
No way Josh makes it through a season of Wang without laughing immaturely a dozen times
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
You'd hear him trying to muffle
a snicker and then fart really big and totally lose it. I would pay to hear that!
"If this video was an ice cream flavor, it'd be pralines and dick." Clark
re: Matthew Wilder-Break My Stride, 4/17/09
not really
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
just b/c of $$ cost or what?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
mainly
He hasn’t been the same since his injury in 2008 and for that price I would rather go with Harden or Sheets.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
just as a fwiw
he has thrown a grand total of 42 IP since his injury in 2008 lol
that said, to me harden/sheets > wang lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
55 actually
he had 2 starts in AAA last year for a total of 13 innings along with his 42 in the majors
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
oh you mean those innings
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=wang—001chi
where his stats were almost right at his career average? not those 13 innings!
LOL
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Why can't we have Harden AND Wang
Good stuff right there. A wang harden combo. “Harden relieves Wang” (not really that dirty but it sounds like it should be).
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
He's so meh
We have one of him and his name i Matt Harrison
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
is*
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Meh
He did have a .321 BABIP last year but 4.66 FIP 4.54 tRA
4.20!!!!K/9
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Maybe a little now but
not that much to give up value for him
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
4.82 xFIP
Just meh
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Heh
I’m liking this…
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
Hi, Keith. Is this the year Edinson Volquez finally wins RoY?
+1
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 8, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
Foxsports WM blog....
Jackson just the start of pitching deals — 3:25 p.m.
Edwin Jackson will not be the last starting pitcher traded.
The Blue Jays are working three- and four-team scenarios involving Roy Halladay. The Braves are aggressively shopping Derek Lowe. The Rangers are actively discussing right-hander Kevin Millwood.
Other available starting pitchers include the Reds’ Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo, the Royals’ Gil Meche, the Rangers’ Brandon McCarthy and — only for the right price — the Pirates’ Zach Duke and Paul Maholm.
For a team such as the Angels, facing the potential loss of free-agent right-hander John Lackey, the options are plentiful. If the Jays’ price for Halladay is too high, they can always turn to Lowe.
The Orioles, pursuing Millwood, could turn to Lowe, who is signed for three years instead of just one and could serve as an ideal anchor for their young rotation.
The Cubs, too, like Millwood, but the Rangers have no interest in a Milton Bradley-for-Millwood exchange. And the Cubs, like most teams on Millwood, would want money from the Rangers to defray Millwood’s $12 million salary. — Ken Rosenthal
OK… Someone else has to keep up link duties.. I got to prepare for a Quality and Applied Statistics presentation,
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
OK I lied.. One more while I wait on the printer...
As long as we’re talking about Millwood
By Roch Kubatko on December 8, 2009 3:52 PMI’ve received confirmation that there’s absolutely no truth to the rumor that the Orioles offered outfielder Felix Pie to the Texas Rangers for pitcher Kevin Millwood.
The two sides are talking. The Rangers want a pitching prospect and salary relief.
Pie doesn’t fit into that equation, and the Orioles never put him on the table as part of a deal.
No sense debating it any longer.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
Salary relief
They have to have one of the lowest payrolls in the majors to start with. Makes me sad.
Anyway I’m sure this has been said but they have to have a veteran somewhere in that starting rotation. A veteran who’s not named Harden or Sheets or anyone else who may pitch well but could end up on the DL forever.
They need somebody who can absorb innings and keep the pen fresh. To an extent, Millwood does that. Unless they can come up with someone who will do it better I don’t want to see him go.
by Black Francis on Dec 8, 2009 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
Part of those innings are going to go to guys
like Feliz, Holland, Hunter, McCarthy, Harrison, Moscoso, and the like. Keeping Millwood’s midling 200 innings because you fear Nippert or someone getting them isn’t really helping this team. Millwood was good/lucky early then faded like a cheaply dyed shirt.
200 mediocre innings can be found almost anywhere. Better to trade him for something good, save some money and spend it on a real bat.
spend
I don’t think the Rangers intend to spend any significant money.
And there aren’t a whole lot of pitchers throwing 200 mediocre innings. None that the Rangers will spend for whether they rid themselves of Millwood’s salary or not.
I hope they’re unable to trade him. They’re not going to win with a bunch of 21-23 year-olds in the rotation no matter how talented the kids are. I mean of all the guys you listed in your first paragraph, who would front the rotation? McCarthy? Not comfortable with that.
by Black Francis on Dec 8, 2009 6:24 PM CST up reply actions
They need to get a young pitcher
if they’re going to have to pay part of his salary. I want Zach Britton. And a pony.
That's why they call them business sox
talks are continuing
Does Thad Levine do the night shift? :)
While the Orioles exchange proposals with the Texas Rangers about veteran pitcher Kevin Millwood, they continue to search for their next third baseman.
I think a deal gets done tomorrow.
According to sources, the Rangers originally asked for Orioles right-hander David Hernandez and a lower-level prospect in return for Millwood. The Rangers also agreed to pick up about $3 million of the $12 million owed to the veteran pitcher for the 2010 season, the final one on Millwood’s contract.
|Space for Rent|
Hey
they continue to search for their next third baseman.
Maybe if we throw in Whittleman, they’ll take an extra million of Millwood’s salary.
I failed my LSB ethics test.
"It's kind of a new stat that's in vogue" - Joe Buck on OPS
Whittleman isn't worth that much.
He’s fringy at best, no value in a trade.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
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