Wednesday morning Rangers things
by Brett Perryman on Dec 9, 2009 9:34 AM CST
331 comments
Richard Durrett summarizes the status of the Rangers' agenda, which seems to include finding a veteran catcher, bringing in a veteran reliever or maybe even two, and continuing to explore a trade of Kevin Millwood that would free up some cash.
Evan Grant has blog updates on Jorge Cantu and more on the option that Nolan Ryan and Chuck Greenberg have presented Tom Hicks with a week left to decide the club's fate.
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@jaysonst: Yankees are shopping the No. 1 pick in Thursday’s Rule 5 draft. They just obtained that pick this week in Brian Bruney trade.
why did they do that deal then?
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Maybe they think this Anuery guy can bring them back a better prospect than what Bruney could have
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
If the Rangers are going to trade Millwood
which I think is a mistake, why not explore a Millwood for Bradley swap? That saves the Rangers $3M this year. Bradley is owed $12M next year, but the ownership should be resolved by then.
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
The Cubs do that in a heartbeat
I think you could get the Cubs to pay a lot more of that.
I heard somewhere that one of the potential ownership groups is a solid no on Bradley. Right now, any moves of that magnitude probably need to have the implicit approval of three owners :/
Go Rice Owls!
how about Millwood for Nick Swisher?
Ranger fans say "NO! NO!" to Go Go.
Keep Reinsdorf's chub from ruining my club.
Tricer
You realize that teams are wanting the Rangers to kick in $ 3-4 million for taking Millwood off our hands.
Wanna go down that road again with the Yankees?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Millwood's contract is not A-Rod's,
the Yankees haven’t spent any money yet this offseason, and Nick Swisher is like the opposite of the free-swinging Soriano (also fits a need a bit better).
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 9, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know how the finances would work
but I would do that deal in a heartbeat. I love Swisher’s skillset, and as much as I hate playing him, I’d love to have him on our team.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
So that's Millwood for
Swisher + ~$6Million? Which you could then funnel into Sheets/Harden? I’d do a dance for that. An incredibly impressive hip-hop styled c-walk included dance for that.
It does beg the question why the Yankees don’t just keep Swisher and use Damon money to sign Lackey (or Sheets and Harden), but I digress.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 9, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
I'm aboard
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
but not unless it means we are going for Harden and/or Sheets
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
I want Hicks G-O-N-E GONE
but if this seals the deal for Greenberg, I think I can live with it. A very uneasy truce.
I don't care if he's a part of it, as long as he has no say on the funding or operations
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
Evan Grant's column was more than a little disgusting and it's pretty obvious who he wants to win the bid.
“But now the owner has an escape route that allows him to get out of debt, be remembered positively by the public for his last act and remain in the mix of the team’s board of directors.”
EG also lauds Nolan because he is offering Hicks dignity.
Evan Grant, what fucking planet are you on and are you that desperate to retain your post-game television gig with the team? I bet there’s every chance to you can still weasel your way into the front pockets of Dennis Gilbert should he win the bid.
Tom Hicks is a cancerous tumor that cannot leave this franchise soon enough. There are very few Ranger fans who will ever remember Tom Hicks with positive thoughts. There are people in the Ranger FO who publicly (yet anonymously) said that Tom Hicks is one of their biggest problems in trying to sell or retain season tickets.
Why the hell would anybody want him back “in the mix” ?
A completely irresponsible and self-serving piece of journalism today from Evan Grant.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Curious, then
What you think about this comment from your boy Nolan yesterday:
“Ryan said it’s always been proposed by his group that Tom Hicks remain as a minority owner, but would not have unilateral power to make baseball decisions. The ownership group would be made up of a board of directors. The deal is structured where there are different levels of equity depending on what Hicks might want. Ryan said he would stay on in his current role if Hicks finds a way to keep majority ownership.
“I told Tom that,” Ryan said. “I came here to help Tom and the Rangers. And if Tom continued to own the team and stay in the control and my role would stay the same, I wouldn’t have a problem with that.”"
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/news/story?id=4725347
Sounds like somebody’s desperate to keep his job as team president, right?
"Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."
RC
Not sure how desperate Nolan is because has a lot of things going on in his life. Owning a team has been a goal of his and he seems to be doing everything he can to make it happen.
The decision process on this (does Hicks or MLB make the final decision?) seems very murky to me but I would guess Nolan including Hicks may knock the price down, might enhance his chances of pulling this off and maybe Nolan feels a sense of loyalty to Hicks.
There is no excuse for it (Tom Hicks is a cancerous tumor who didn’t give a shit about winning or the fans) and I’m not going to absolve Nolan, especially if Hicks holds any kind of influence going forward.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
That corn was good
Thanks for reminding me of that event, dude.
BTW, I like the phrase 'rotisserie of ridicule'. You're very good with food-related phrases and metaphors.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
heh
love the interaction
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
Evan, I appreciate you attempting to use your article to leverage against the attempts of
a rich dude who wants to mess around with a baseball team
damn Evan's been eating for hours...must be delicious corn
So who's todays mistress? They're coming out of the Woodswork!
Josey, Josey, Josey
I understand where you are coming from. Although I’m not sure how suggesting giving Hicks a dignified way to fade into the background is self-serving.
But I read enough LSB to know better than to argue with you. Bottom line: Ryan and Greenberg are trying to bring this deal to a close so this team can move forward. Now it’’s up to Hicks.
by Evan Grant on Dec 9, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 8 recs
and the great Evan Grant
blows up the spot with a cold dose of logic.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
For the record, EG seems like a nice guy and is a generally
competent writer in my book. I actually think his best work comes on the radio (loved him when he was on XM with Charlie Steiner) or especially on ajm’s podcast so none of this is personal.
That said, Evan, I said your article is self-serving because it appears you want to preserve your place with an entity that you know very well even if that means the widely despised Tom Hicks is still “in the mix” or somehow retains a majority share.
You wrote this knowing full well how much Hicks is despised by the fans, by elements in his own front office and by the players. Think Michael Young really wants Tom Hicks to retain majority ownership?!?!? You also know full well how Hicks ran This Thing into the ground and what an embarrassment he is as an owner…and you’re worried about saving that sonofabitch’s dignity!?!?
Yeah, Gilbert may have to fade a little heat early if Nolan Ryan goes but if the team wins and is much more fan-friendly than the current regime, the fans will return in droves.
Jerry Jones seemed to survive firing Tom Landry and he did so by advancing the franchise and winning.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Wow.
If this isn’t personal:
That said, Evan, I said your article is self-serving because it appears you want to preserve your place with an entity that you know very well even if that means the widely despised Tom Hicks is still "in the mix" or somehow retains a majority share.
I’d hate to see what your idea of a personal attack would be.
Athos
I think the EG column today was a “business decision” and he’s more concerned about his place in the future Ranger organization (which is probably pretty secure in the Greenberg, Ryan, Hicks group) than what’s really good for the organization and the fans long-term.
“It would be an unfair, perhaps untenable short-term situation for Gilbert. A dedicated baseball man all his life, he’d be in the position of having to patch up the disconnect with fans that would arise with Ryan’s departure. Gilbert deserves a chance to run a team but he doesn’t deserve to be handicapped in the court of public opinion the way he would if he essentially replaces Ryan.”
When did this organization, especially with Tom Hicks as owner, ever give a damn about the disconnect the fans have had with This Thing?
If Gilbert gets the bid and the organization is successful, fans will return en masse to This Thing and EG is smart enough to know that.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
I think my column today was about getting the deal done
And really nothing more. Greenberg and Ryan have played this negotiation really well, in my opinion. But there are always compromises that are going to have to be made. Would it be preferable to MLB and to everybody if HIcks were to simply sell and leave the club behind? Sure.
I think the Rangers are in position to really have the kind of dynamic ownership – at least in philosophy and approach – that they’ve never had before. That has nothing to do with Hicks. I’d think if Ryan/Greenberg got the team, Tom Hicks would fade into the background more and more. What I’m finding out at the winter meetings, though, is that Ryan, Greenberg and Gilbert all seem to be exceptionally well-respected throughout baseball.
If Gilbert gets the team, though, he’s going to face some degree of public backlash for being perceived as driving Ryan off even if that wouldn’t actually be the exact truth. And that backlash would probably come in the form of lower ticket sales and maybe lower advertising dollars, which makes catching up economically difficult. I don’t think that either Ryan/Greenberg or Gilbert would be walking in the door flush with cash. They might have a little more to spend, but the rest is going to have to come from revenue generated from tickets, advertising and sponsorship. If the Rangers aren’t perceived well in the community, it’s going to be hard to generate those revenues without a great team on the field. And to create a great team on the field, you need some revenue. Vicious cycle.
You are soooo Tom Hicks' bitch.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
forgot the
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
Can't get real solid numbers
It appears both in-hand offers are worth more than $500 million, probably in the $510-520 million range. Somebody close to the process told me Tuesday that both offers are pretty similar in terms of total dollars. The difference would come in the structuring.
What is the strategic advantage to Ryan/Greenberg of giving Hicks a part in the ownership?
It doesn’t appear to be something critical for MLB approval. Does it simply give Hicks a reason to cease his efforts to keep the team. Is that it, in your opinion?
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
It means they don't have to raise enough money up front
if Hicks is going to be a minority owner and invest say 50 million of his own money and not have any power then thats 50 million less that Ryan/Greenburg have to come up with.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I'm with you
I don’t see how keeping Hicks around helps. It seems to me, if it’s up to MLB to approve, this would only hurt Greenberg’s chances.
by Anonymous New Guy on Dec 9, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
because he's selling the team
not MLB. and since he’s not partnering with Gilbert anymore, the chances that Greenberg/Ryan win this bid are tied directly to any instance where Hicks can partner with them, however minor that partnership may be
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Is that the case?
There seems to be some confusion, maybe it’s just on my part, as to who decides who gets the team.
by Anonymous New Guy on Dec 9, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
obviously I could be wrong
but I think these prospective owners present a proposal, Hicks accepts, and MLB approves or denies
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
This.
Tom Hicks has essentially no leverage.
MLB is too smart to let This Thing crater for the next generation.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
Correct.
And it gives him a graceful exit. It also gives him the chance to keep the team in the family for multiple-generations. It’s a compromise, plain and simple.
Why does he deserve a graceful exit?
Are you blind?
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe that's the better question for EG.
Evan, do you feel like Tom Hicks deserves a graceful exit?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
If
a graceful exit is what is required to keep Nolan and JD running this team then I’m all for it, deserved or not.
Fucking christ.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
Heh
The disturbingly accurate logic of your post has sunk in.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
I'm for everybody being able to make a graceful exit
Especially if a graceful exit expedites the process that will allow the Rangers to resume operations as a full-fledged major league baseball club and not a crippled ship.
Evan
I think you’re underestimating the callous that Ranger fans have developed over the years.
Watching Tom Hicks parade this franchise around with a shotgun in it’s mouth while he was trying to trade ARod following the 2003 season was amongst the most embarrassing time periods in the history of this franchise. We lost the best player of this generation for 10 cents on the dollar and then watched the greedy owner line his pockets with all his new found “financial flexibility.”
What happened in 2004?
There was a lot of initial backlash from the fans but that was quickly forgotten because the team won 89 games and attendance went up nearly 6000 per game.
In 2005, attendance remained stagnant while the team fell back but they became what Tom Hicks said on The Ticket “Very, very profitable.”
So yeah, if Gilbert wins the bid and Ryan leaves there’s going to be fans that are upset but you are underestimating how badly this organization (especially recently) has treated their fans but we’re a resilient bunch and if you put a winner on the field, we’ll be back.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Some of us
never left you front-runnin’ prick
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 9, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
If the fan base was more sophisticated than you
and the local media covering the Rangers was more critical, Tom Hicks wouldn’t pull the crap he’s pulled for the last several years.
Tom Hicks is the dog who licks his balls. He does it because he can.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
What makes me unsophisticated?
The fact that I support the Rangers no matter what and I don’t sit on my computer all day typing the same mindless drivel over and over and over…Get off your high horse and post some orginal content for once. Mix it up on us
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 9, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
So we got Galloway vs. Uncle Evan...I like this.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
RG appears to have quite the media source
with Nolan Ryan and I would assume he’s pulling hard for the Ryan, Greenberg group as well.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Quit talking in 3rd person....I was referring to you (RG) and Evan going at it...battle of the columnists, location LSB.
RG…..my step dad said you tried to help him get a job at the Herald in the 80’s, he appreciated it. Randy C from Denton is his name. You remember him?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
I used to work for the Dallas Times Herald
in the 70’s.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
I still remember the Dallas Times Herald jingles from WBAP
718-1414
718-1414
The Dallas Times Herald
Classifieds
With results that you’ve never seen before!
Go Rice Owls!
I still sing that song to annoy my wife!!!
I thought it was 748-1414 though…crap I’ve been doing it wrong all these years..
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
I just remember
320-1111
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
doing what?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
Throwing papers in the afternoons
and on Saturday/Sunday mornings.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
How old are you Wales?
Just curious.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
40 something.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Not this time.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Heh
nice pun in your sig there, LAMF.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
Also,
It seems in the sale of MLB Franchises, the “old boy” network usually prevails. The winner needs to have some relationship to Selig or one of his buddies. If Gilbert wins, could this be grounds for a congressional Anti-Trust investigation into the whole frame-work of MLB Franchise Sales?
Russians do not play baseball WELL
they play baseball, though.
Grieve: The Yanks have struggled so far. - Lewin: Yeah, cry me a bag of money.
Dykstra has all the money!
ElectricOkra.com
In Russia
Baseball plays YOU!
"Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."
I read
the article exactly like you intended it to be read. You didn’t exactly spell it out, which I guess some require, but it didn’t take much to read between the lines and see that this comprimise is nothing more than an attempt to get the deal done.
I happen to work on large structured financial transactions every day. Nothing this size of course, but millions of dollars are exchanging hands on both side. When we walk in we know what we’re willing to give up to get the deal done, but are willing to move a little to push something across the goal line. Seems like that’s exactly what’s happened here. No one has ever done a deal that didn’t leave at least the slightest bad taste in their mouth. If it didn’t then they missed something in their valuation and they are the “sucker in the room”.
But
EG is over the top in how much he doesn’t want the Gilbert Group to win the bid.
Does anybody really believe Gilbert is intimidated by the looming spectre of fan backlash that will come if we have to say good-bye to Nolan?
The fact that Tom Hicks would be long gone is going to more than off-set whatever negativity comes his way regarding Nolan.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
I think all of us should be over the top on how much we don't want
Gilbert to win
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmm... Evan writes things that make you say:
That said, Evan, I said your article is self-serving
Yet Randy is above reproach.
Atleast i think thats what you said what with Hank’s and RG’s balls in your mouth
Jeeez, the players JD picked up in the Tex trade have barely made any kind of meaningful contributions to the Rangers in The Show, but the pro-JD crowd is still running around shouting "I told ya so."
by red3biggs on Dec 9, 2009 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Also, how about limiting Josey's questions during DMN chats to one per 10 chats.
Back and forth between Josey and JD may have been entertaining, but frustrating giving the small window of opportunity the fans have to interact directly with JD.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
No shit.
Thought out questions are summarily skipped over, but the retread poster’s questions get all the priority?
How the fuck?
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
Bleah on Kendall
I’d be OK with just about anyone else though.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
I'll post this again here...
I am very frustrated with our search for a veteran catcher because the cost of bringing in a guy like Kendall (both salary and roster spot) is not worth the incremental improvement (if there is one) over what we currently have.
Last offseason we thought enough of Taylor Teagarden that we decided not to trade him when there appeared to be ample interest in the marketplace for him and even though it was obvious to all involved parties that he was coming off something of a career year professionally.
Don’t get me wrong, he’s the sort of kid who is hellish to evaluate because he’s a smart, local product with very solid defensive/pitch calling skills. He comes across as the sort of job applicant you fall in love with in an interview to the point that you willingly look past his flaws, so it would have been hard to ship him out for just any old return. But for the org to have written him off so completely as a major league starter just one year later, to the point that we are considering the above names (and when cash is extremely tight, no less), this feels like another black eye for the folks supposedly assess a player’s major league potential in our org.
I can see grabbing a journeyman on a minor league deal to provide insurance in case Taylor, Max and Salty aren’t ready, but anything more than that just feels extremely wasteful.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
and as Adam, Todd, and others have pointed out
Taylor could actually be allowed to find a groove offensively if he’s given regular playing time. His career major league OPS of .752 is almost certainly more than any of the veteran catchers could provide, and he’s already on our roster at a minimal salary. Like it or not, when we made the decision to keep him last offseason and give him ML playing time last year, we essentially invested a lot of opportunity costs into him, and to think of those as sunk costs this quickly is very poor investing.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Thats the risk you take not trading guys
if we traded him and he did what we thought he would do then people bitch about trading away a good young, HOMETOWN (god I hate that argument from people), great defensive catcher
So we held onto him and he obviously didn’t do what we thought he would do.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
but didn't he?
Didn’t he do pretty much what we thought he would? We knew that contact would be an issue because it always has been. We knew his defense would be pretty solid and that he would help the pitching staff.
I don’t understand what he did last year that made the organization go from placing a premium on him and foolishly overvaluing him to not even thinking of him as an option and, in my opinion, undervaluing him.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
health
I wonder if the team’s reservations about him as a starter are because they don’t believe he will stay healthy with a starting catcher work load?
Ranger fans say "NO! NO!" to Go Go.
Keep Reinsdorf's chub from ruining my club.
that's fine
but if that’s the case, let’s just sign a guy like Josh Bard to an NRI and be done with it.
It sounds to me like they are looking for a starter until Salty returns, and that’s what baffles me. None of these guys they are looking at are sure bets to out produce Teagarden next year.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
+1
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
exactly let's roll with Tea.
We all know what happens when we get a scrub in here…
So who's todays mistress? They're coming out of the Woodswork!
I'm hoping that they're looking at guys more as NRI's
or backup options just in case Salty isn’t healthy. I don’t think it’s bad as long as it’s a backup/emergency type option. If Salty couldn’t play the first half of the season, it seems like the best option would be to have some sort of competition between MaxRam and one of the names they listed for who would backup/split time with Teagarden.
Now if you’re talking about these guys as starters, then I agree with you and have a huge issue with it. And while you can question the evaluators of major league talent, realize that there is a lot more pressure on them, which could be leading to these large vacillations in their evaluations of players. Regardless, they need to give Teagarden at least one more shot before they settle him into the backup role.
There is value in raising your floor just like there is value in raising your ceiling, one just hopes that they find much more efficient/cheaper ways to do the former.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 9, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
I'd hate to see them waste any money on a veteran catcher.
Let Max, Tea, and Salty fight it out for playing time this season. They’re either going to develop or they’re not and 2010 is not such a sure thing that letting them get experience would seriously hamper our playoff hopes. As long as we get good production from first base, I’m not too worried about our catchers.
agree
I think with Salty, Teagarden, Richardson and Max, we should be fine as long as Max and Taylor are healthy enough…
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
YES! No more SCRUBS for Wash to tinker with!
So who's todays mistress? They're coming out of the Woodswork!
Newsflash: Josh Lewin thinks he will be back
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
WOO
I don’t get why so many people hate on him. He may be goofy, but he does know his baseball. It’s a good mix with lewin.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
I really disliked
him at first but he has grown on me. I think that him and Tom are the perfect team now.
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
by Michael Cave on Dec 9, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Love Josh Lewin
He made watching games in Aug-Sept of ‘07 tolerable. Him and TAG are a great team, and if he gets replaced I assure you his replacement will not be near as good.
And if Dave Barnett gets in the TV booth with his OxyContin-induced slurring waterheaded retard act, I’ll quit watching. I can’t stand that boring bastard.
Exact same boat as you Cave
Lewin brings out the best it Tag from a broadcasting standpoint.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
ditto
the lewin shtick is like a commerical jingle. At first, it’s a little annoying. Then you hear it a few times. You’re humming it in the shower. By the 3rd year, it’s “Buy Mennen”.
I like Lewin.
He’s not the best but he’s in upper-tier of broadcasters. There’s some schlocky elements to his broadcast but he has a nice chemistry with Grieve and leaving on Sundays in August / September is not a big deal to me.
He also is a helluva lot better alternative than Dave Barnett.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Lewin's gold
PURE gold
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
Besides the Borbon/leadoff-Hamilton to LF news
this is the best news of the offseason….just hope it actually happens…
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Dec 9, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
Great news
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 9, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
slightly OT
I found out today that Dick Enberg of all people will start calling TV games for the Padres. This will allow me to have at least some baseball on my TV next year, even if it is crappy boring NL West baseball.
Go Rice Owls!
Wooo JOSH...
Josh may be annoying at times but he’s not boring like some of these schmucks.
So who's todays mistress? They're coming out of the Woodswork!
Best news I've heard today...
Grieve: The Yanks have struggled so far. - Lewin: Yeah, cry me a bag of money.
Dykstra has all the money!
ElectricOkra.com
x
Evan_P_Grant After consulting with others, I concur with
@ChiTribRogers: smoak/feliz for johnson might be most unfounded rumor of meetings.
Millwood update
It sounds like the O’s might be willing to send Chris Ray (great buy low candidate) and pick up most of Millwood’s contract. He indicates the talks continue to progress.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Id still like a
prospect included in that deal UNLESS the rangers then immediately said with the savings from the Millwood deal we are now signing Harden/Sheets and we couldnt have got it done if we would have to pick up ANY of Millwood’s salary
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
by Michael Cave on Dec 9, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
it all depends
if Baltimore takes on the whole salary, then Chris Ray is a solid return. If they want us to kick in $3M or more, then we need an additional prospect (maybe an Steve Johnson/Ashur Tolliver type).
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
It's hard to imagine a trade in which JD didn't get a lottery ticket kicked in.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
considering JD's type
I’m amazed Xavier Avery’s name hasn’t surfaced yet in the rumor mill.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
or Cameron Coffey
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
yeah
I could see this deal end up being Millwood and $1.5-2M or so for Chris Ray and Eddie Gamboa or Cameron Coffey.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
but then I just love Eddie Gamboa
as a baseball name. He sounds like he should have been on the Brooklyn Dodgers.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Sheets
He is fools’ gold at this point. His agent won’t let anyone see his medical charts or watch him throw. It is much more likely that he becomes another Justin Thompson than reverts to his old self. I would take a pass and I certainly wouldn’t sign him immediately.
"When you play happy, good things will happen"-Elvis Andrus
I'm sure the club
would do its due diligence before signing him. But if he proves healthy, I think he’s the target…
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
His point
is that you can’t do due diligence when his agent hides the medical records and refuses all requests for a throwing audition. I am 100% with pblack on this one. If they continue the stance of no throwing and no medical records, I don’t sign him.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 9, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
well obviously
the agent cannot expect any team to sign him without seeing medical records. The fact that he’s not throwing means Sheets isn’t close to signing with any team for anything more than a very low base salary and incentives.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Disagree
I think they are banking on one more decent contract offer based on name recognition alone. The not throwing is bothersome, but the refusal to show medical records is the red flag to me. To me, that means there is no real time table for when he will be able to throw again.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 9, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
but
these aren’t 14 year olds at a fantasy draft. GMs don’t sink money into players based on name alone. If Sheets and his agent don’t produce medical records, he won’t get signed. It is that simple.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
incompetent ones, I guess
but I’ve taken a lot of heat through the years when I’ve called JD incompetent, so much so that I no longer think he is.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong but...
Meanwhile Zrebiec’s colleague Peter Schmuck says Chris Ray could be involved and the Rangers would pick up most of Millwood’s salary, in one scenario.
That appears to me to say the Rangers would get Ray and pay most of the salary.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 9, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
I just lost all respect for that guy
when I clicked on his link. He might be Miles dad with that wardrobe and schtick…
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 9, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
yeah I think
the guy reporting in on mlbtr read it wrong. Schmuck makes it clear that the Orioles would send Chris Ray and pick up the salary.
This deal only makes sense for the Rangers if they can get at least $9M off the books, no matter what the return is. They aren’t doing this trade to restock their farm, they’re doing it to free up money to make a run at Sheets and Dye.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Heh. It's like he sees the light at end of the tunnel...
..but doesn’t hear the train horn.
It almost sounds too good, like the guy selling the hundred-dollar Rolex on the street. But Ray has the potential to be one of those breakout stars, so I guess the Rangers are ready to ante up and see what they get. Hope it happens!
(commenter from that article)
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 9, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
I'd rather have Pie than Ray
Ranger fans say "NO! NO!" to Go Go.
Keep Reinsdorf's chub from ruining my club.
every team would
Pie has a great deal of value. LSB’s general negative reaction to that rumor was silliness.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
according to what I've seen reported
Baltimore offered Pie, JD turned them down, and is now asking for Ray instead?
What am I missing?
Ranger fans say "NO! NO!" to Go Go.
Keep Reinsdorf's chub from ruining my club.
I don't think
Baltimore every actually offered Pie. I think they are talking about Pie with many other teams and that’s why his name got thrown in the mix.
Ray makes more sense for us because they value him less than Pie and he fits our needs better.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Disagree
I think Ray has considerable more value to this club than Pie. Where does Pie fit in on this club? Why trade an asset that can contribute like Millwood for a guy who isn’t even a lock to make the club, Pie?
Ray fits our needs better
because we are four deep with decent OF options. But most clubs would see a guy who was an above average OF at a minimal salary as having more value than a reliever who posted an ERA north of 7 last year.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Why should I be so happy about trading Millwood for Ray?
Im assuming he was injured and missed all of 08 and wasn’t real good in 07 and was horrible last year. Hes only under team control for 2 more years. Whats so great about the guy?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
if the deal is Millwood for Ray
then I don’t think we kick any money into the deal…
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
But whats so special about Ray?
Seems to me like he got hurt and hasn’t been the same since. I don’t want to give up my only veteran starter for that sorry.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
The same since?
Last year was his first year back from TJ. Everybody knows it takes 2 to fully return, his ave. fastball was down only one mph, to 93.9, from pre-TJ. IF JD likes him, I like him.
2007?
The year before his injury he wasn’t that good
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Not that great for a reliever
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Well I assume he hurt his numbers pitching injured for a little bit..
the preceding post was a great success.
ok
still not to keen on the idea of giving up the only veteran in our rotation for him
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
so you'd rather go into next season
with the exact team we have today rather than shed Millwood’s contract and see what that $12M can buy us over the next two months?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Yes
like i said yesterday I am not worrying about who is going to start Game 1 of the World Series or even the playoffs right now. I am worried about having a chance to make the playoffs. Millwood gives me a much better chance at that than Sheets or Harden due to his reliability. If at midseason we are in the playoff race and with a new owner can take on salary then we can go out and find that Game 1 starter.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
How in the hell does Ray make us more of a competitor than Millwood does?
And yes, I know that we’ll likely use the Millwood money to buy a bat, but we’re already short on proven starters and I seriously doubt harden would come here and who knows what to expect from Sheets?
there are more FAs out there
than just Sheets and Harden.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
For the price we are looking to pay?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
mentioned in another thread
Kelvim Escobar is a guy that I’ve always liked. Not sure what his current health situation is, but if healthy, he’s pretty damn good.
Ranger fans say "NO! NO!" to Go Go.
Keep Reinsdorf's chub from ruining my club.
He's thrown 5 innings in the majors since 2007
Hes just like Sheets or Harden IMO. I would love to add him to a rotation with Millwood in it but I do not want to trade Millwood for him and expect to compete
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Fine with me
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Because Ray is coming back from TJ, showing some positive signs, and before that
was a dominant reliever at age 24. He might allow the Rangers to move Feliz into the starting rotation permanently.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
Ray, Pie, whatever...
All relatively inconsequential.. but if we are going to trade Millwood for salary relief… I just wish I could be confident that money would turn into a legitimate player like Harden, and I have extreme doubts.
the preceding post was a great success.
well whenever we want a pitcher and anybody else in the world wants that pitcher
we usually come out on the short end of a stick.
Yes
it’s comical how many people on here assume that if we want a guy no one else does and if we just come up with the money it will work out. What if we trade Millwood and don’t sign Sheets or Harden? Now we are stuck with extra money and no one to spend it on. Maybe they will lower the price of parking that way.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 9, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
players and agents are smarter
than we often give them credit for, and I’m sure the league took notice when our pitchers suddenly all sported negative E-Fs, which reflects just how much our defense helps average pitchers look better.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
well that is a pretty interesting take
i just assumed a pitcher like harden would rather pitch for a team that has a history of winning.
and sheets – well he dropped some perennial winners as his target teams but I’m on the “I don’t think he’ll contribute meaningful innings” bandwagon
you may be right
but I think many in the league view the Rangers as a team who will be playing meaningful games next September, or that we’re at least a good a bet as 90% of the rest of the league.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Not only a history of winning
but who would want to play in this heat. I know it’s a tired arguement, but I think it’s a real factor. For the last three summers my brother and I made a baseball road trip to visit other ballparks. Every year we come back thinking, why the hell would anyone want to play in Texas…
by Anonymous New Guy on Dec 9, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
I'm going to use your same line
This isn’t a 14 year old’s fantasy draft. To ship off Millwood hoping to sign Sheets or Harden with that money is putting the cart before the horse. This isn’t a video game. We can’t sign anyone we want. We dont’ have the ability to moneywhip guys so it comes down to choice. I’m guessing a guy from British Columbia has Texas low on his list of possible destinations if the money is equal.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 9, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
its a bit of a catch 22
I agree that I would prefer to have another pitcher in place, but there are two problems with that. First and foremost, we can’t afford to sign anyone until we shed Milly’s contract. Second, that severely undercuts the little bit of leverage we have in trade negotiations.
Since our best bet is to “bargain shop” this offseason, we have to wait until a few guys slip through to spend our money effectively, and if we wait to trade Millwood in January, then a team like the Orioles will have already waited and pounced on a Bedard or Harden type (the very same names we want to go after).
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I think the point is
What if we trade him, but then are unable to sign a player of any significance with the freed up money? Are we better off?
by Anonymous New Guy on Dec 9, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
That is my exact point
It’s like breaking up with your girlfriend because you heard a rumor a hotter girl liked you. If that rumor turns out not to be true, your stuck at home with the Jergens on Saturday night.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 9, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
the better analogy
and excuse my vulgarity, is that you break up with your current girlfriend, who has been around four years and is only decent in bed, because you heard the hot girl might want to sleep with you. Sure, she knows about that weird thing you like and she’s cool with it, but you are growing in confidence and brimming with potential, so you decide to go for it.
Even if you can’t seal the deal with the hot girl, there are still quite a few girls in your school who will probably sleep with you who are just as hot as your old girlfriend, and who come with a lot less drama.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
One problem
Sure you have potential, but other guys have more money than you. Your only option now is to hit up the nearest Perkins and try to charm the best looking waitress.
by Anonymous New Guy on Dec 9, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
A restaurant
The ugly chick that claims she is one of Tiger’s whores works at one.
by Anonymous New Guy on Dec 9, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
if we are trading Millwood purely for salary relief
then we shouldn’t have ever allowed his option to vest in the first place.
Ranger fans say "NO! NO!" to Go Go.
Keep Reinsdorf's chub from ruining my club.
Well what were they going to do about it, sit him when healthy?
Wouldn’t that be a significant knock on them with prospective FAs for years to come?
the preceding post was a great success.
Why?
If they can trade him, get something useful, and get partial salary relief that could be better than just 100% salary relief.
It clearly depends on what the ’something useful" piece of that is though.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 9, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
well this Chris Ray scenario
has us giving up Millwood and acquiring an interesting reliever and paying him $3M.
If we don’t allow Millwood’s option to vest, I’m pretty sure we could get an equal or better reliever on the market, for about the same money, possibly less.
Ranger fans say "NO! NO!" to Go Go.
Keep Reinsdorf's chub from ruining my club.
I guess that completely depends on if Ray gets back to what
he once briefly was or not.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
Bingo.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
Business decisions.
I may not have voiced it loudly at the time, but he did not deserve the option based on performance.
This team has no PR, so please don’t give me that.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
PR?
What are you trying to say with that comment?
I think you were insinuating
that it was unrealistic or unfeasible for the Rangers to DL Millwood, preventing him from vesting.
I’m saying that there is no good reason for Millwood’s option to have vested.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
Unless, i need to take that back actually.
As a matter of timing, due to the uncertainty in clusterfuckapalooza, the Rangers might have valued the security of knowing that they have an LAIE in the bag at $12M, with potential for a trade — as opposed to entering this quagmire of a market for SP’s, with no financial backing, and a humiliated front office.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
You can't DL
a player unless they agree to be placed on the DL. So that was unrealistic. If you just benched him, the player and the union would have been all over their asses. Not to mention the fall out with potential future FA’s looking at the way a contract was handled.
Fair enough. I stand corrected.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
ever see 8 men out?
Eddie Cicotte, 29 game winner in 1919…. for some reason he lost 2 games in that world series. And he hit the first batter in the opening game. odd….. hmm…….
No, I’m just kidding. Considering that in neither 2007 nor 2008 did he top 180 innings, the fact that he pitched 198.2 innings with an era below 4 is truly impressive.
Personally, I have no problem keeping him for another year (over Harden or Sheets) and then letting him walk next off season. And, god forbid, if the Rangers are out of it in July, flipping him at the deadline for prospects.
Bullshit.
Maybe you and I were watching something different this past summer, but the Kevin Millwood I saw pitched pretty darn well last year. 3.76 ERA. Sure he had a rough august, but even then he gave us 5-6 innings per start and his September was just fine, winning his last 3 games including a complete game, at Anaheim, on October first. (of course, Josey would utterly dismiss this as being garbage time and of no consequence, and say that he sucked because he had a the god Hank Blalock behind him even though Blalock didn’t play in the game.)
Don't respond to my posts with a block of garbage.
tl;dr.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 6:13 PM CST up reply actions
Screw you
I’ll respond if I like, and in the matter that I like. If you don’t like it, well, that’s just too bad.
Screw you, also.
The difference is that I don’t reply to your posts for a reason.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 6:49 PM CST up reply actions
so we start CJ and plug Ray into his spot, find another lefty and call it a day?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
needing a catcher
remind me why we let Laird go ? did we trade him or let him walk? I never thought he got the respect he was due by management and he seemed to be a leader, call a good game, for the Tigers. I know last year we thought we were drowning in catching [Salt, Teabag, Ramirez] but here we are a year later. . . . .
keep on rockin' in the free world !
at this point
I’d much rather have Moscoso and Melo than one more year of Laird.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
When has Laird ever said or done anything to make him look like a leader to you.
And he had .626 ops last year…. i’d just as well give Teagarden another shot.
the preceding post was a great success.
Harden
I’ll just note that MLBTR has a tidbit saying someone thinks the mariners are the favorite for Harden.
Not that would annoy me.
the preceding post was a great success.
XM was discussing yesterday how the M's
have made it known at the Winter Meetings that they have a lot of $$$$ to spend this off-season.
Does everybody recall how they finished two games behind us last year?
I think they’re a team that would probably slide back a little next year given the quantum leap forward they made in 2009 but if they add a few more pieces, they could soon become a problem in the AL West.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
OT - At the public library...
I bet 15% of the people in here have a permanent address.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
yeah...
you gotta go to the public library in the ’burbs man. Much safer.
"...like some Russian priest fresh off a bottle of potato vodka and a box of cigars." -t ball
I'm actually in Denton, believe it or not we have a fair amount of homeless here...
There’s this one kinda decently good looking girl at one of the computers and she’s surrounded by some homeless folks…she is looking mightily uncomfortable right now….
I can’t get dick done in here, I’m too much of a people watcher.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
Go to the basement of the ISB science librarry at UNT...
it’s like a ghost town down there. Actually…I’ve always had this fantasy of getting some action down there. Libraries make me frisky.
"...like some Russian priest fresh off a bottle of potato vodka and a box of cigars." -t ball
what is ISB?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
...I think it stands for Information and Science Building or something like that...
It’s the Science and Tech library.
"...like some Russian priest fresh off a bottle of potato vodka and a box of cigars." -t ball
Good to know, I'll do that next semester.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
Research Science Libary accross from the Bio building
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
RyinA
When I first read that comment about the decent looking chick surrounded by homeless guys, somehow I read that as “there’s a decent looking homeless girl in here.”
And immediately my mind went to the Family Guy episode where Quagmire is telling the story about what he did with the hot homeless twins.
I really need to cut down on my Adult Swim viewing…
"Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."
No need to cut down...I like your version better.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
Balt beat writer Schmuck just got pulled out of his chat
because of the Millwood deal..
Looks like it is about to go down…
Peter Schmuck:
Thanks everyone.
Wednesday December 9, 2009 2:08 Peter Schmuck
2:08
Peter Schmuck:
I’ve got to go work on the trade story with Jeff.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
great, now I really can't get anything done.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
Ha.
Eh, just put it off a while.
"...like some Russian priest fresh off a bottle of potato vodka and a box of cigars." -t ball
looks like Millwood and $$ for Ray
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
for those not in the other thread...
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/
he says its almost done.
the preceding post was a great success.
What are the odds of FOTF going apeshit over this?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
lol
I love that everyone expects FACE to cry out after everything now, despite the fact that he has only one instance in past history of doing so
So I'll put you down for "Not Expecting FOTF to go Apeshit"
Cool.
I think he’ll be disappointed that they’re losing a veteran but I don’t think he’ll publicly acknowledge it.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
yeah, not criticizing you
this point comes up a lot… I expect him to be disappointed (I expect most the team to be disappointed), but I do not expect an outcry
I know you weren't man.
Millwood seems like a really cool dude, I bet he can crush some Keystones.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
have a friend that got him into a condo
said he’s cool as shit…we were gonna play some poker with him but that never happened…
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
Man, what a dick.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
and it's done...
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bal-kevin-millwood-trade-1209,0,4877522.story
Millwood for Ray (plus cash)…
"The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic" - Charles Darwin, you know who he is...
So we are paying them money to take
a 198 IP sub 4.00 ERA pitcher off our hands?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
yeah
I’m not a big fan of this move UNLESS it is coupled by a revenue neutral signing of another pitcher. I’d rather have Ray + Harden than Millwood
Go Rice Owls!
How many innings would you expect
from Harden next year?
I assume another shoe is going to fall (signing somebody like Harden) but I don’t think that’s a given.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Thing is, you can't really trust Harden.
Even Millwood.
by Too Legit To quit on Dec 9, 2009 1:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Harden has been between
128-148 IPs since after 2004.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
I can
and will
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
Yup
Also, screw you Tom Hicks
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Dec 9, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I think the theory is that we sign someone else
But, I think I’d prefer a prospect to a 7.7 ERA, failed closer, high-walk guy
coming off of TJ
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
his control and movement should return
he is a buy low type guy. I still would have prefered Ray + a prospect but…
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
Lame
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
Hi, Keith. Is this the year Edinson Volquez finally wins RoY?
So we go into ST with Scooter as the clubs Opening Day starter?
by Too Legit To quit on Dec 9, 2009 1:27 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Don't know about this
What are the chances that another move isn’t made and the Rangers start next season with only one guy who pitched over a 150 innings in 2009? Not that I am a big advocate of Millwood, but this just seems like a knee jerk reaction to clear off some payroll. It would be one thing, if this trade was being done and the Rangers were clearing off all of Millwood’s salary. But from what I have heard, it sounds like the Rangers will still be paying several million to Millwood and getting a relief pitcher who has had little success at the major league level.
Everyone relax...
[Comment From johnjohn: ]
Rumor has it that Milwood is off to Baltimore for Chris Ray? Any truth to this? Do you see Ray as a closer or set up man?
Wednesday December 9, 2009 1:32 john
1:32
Ron Washington :
We are not shopping Millwood.
and on that note
i think the comment is hilarious
by ab03 on Dec 9, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If Millwood was being traded....
Ron would know about it. He would not be in the middle of a chat with DMN blog right now
Maybe I was wrong
[Comment From Big Kev Big Kev: ]
Any truth to the rumor that the Millwood for Chris Ray swap has just been completed?
Wednesday December 9, 2009 1:45 Big Kev
1:45
Ron Washington :
We just saw the report on MLB Trade rumors, but I can’t comment, I haven’t talked to anybody. I haven’t heard from anybody here.
Wash
I wonder if he’s smart enough to realize that he makes an amazing smoke screen.
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
come on now....
I bet he’s smoking 3 Kools right now sweating it.
If he doesn’t know about it then I’m embarrassed for him.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
Lol. Ronny.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
if the trade already went down
he’s technically correct – they’re not shopping him. anymore.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
What is rangers rotation now?
feldman
feliz
harrison
hunter
holland
i assume they’ll bring in a sheets, bedard, marquis type
This might pave the way for the josh johnson deal
i dont' think there ever was a josh johnson deal
and there probably wont’ be.
and we do still have brandon mccarthy…for something
For 100 innings then mccarthy gets injured?
Sounds about right, add in harden for 120 innings or =millwoods 190-200 innings 2009
by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 9, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
you forgot McCarthy
When his usual stint on the DL comes up, Feliz may be ready by then.
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
and Nippert, Hurley, Wilson are also rotation candidates.
Sorting this out will make ST interesting
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
I just can't imagine relying on BMac for anything
I’ve spent too many years waiting for the Justin Thompson’s, Jeff Zimmerman’s, and Jose Guzman’s to get back onto the mound. Yeah, BMac isn’t as bad as those guys, but seriously… I’m never going to assume BMac will adequately fill any slot on this club, other than a 60man DL spot.
Go Rice Owls!
Wow, just wow.
Anybody else think about the Mother’s Day Massacre? lol
Feldman deserves to be the Opening Day pitcher for the Rangers, though.
She say she are the manager.
Chris Ray
He’s not a bad guy to get. He was good in 2005 and 2006, before TJ surgery, and it usually takes 18 months to come back from TJ surgery.
I assume this puts Feliz in the rotation to start the season (or at least I hope it does), which I believe is the right move.
That said, I think the final evaluation of this deal is dependent on whether we go add someone good with money saved in this deal.
Like a Sheets?
She say she are the manager.
by rockin_rangers on Dec 9, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
I think it's dangerous to replace a 200 IP guy with an injury-concern pitcher
granted, Milly was an injury-concern pitcher before last season
and Sheets would be pitching for a contract (I would think)
She say she are the manager.
by rockin_rangers on Dec 9, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
point taken
She say she are the manager.
by rockin_rangers on Dec 9, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
Millwood
He’s thrown 200 innings once in the last 6 years.
by Darrell McKown on Dec 9, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
Further....
Assuming we are paying $3 million of Millwood’s salary, if we could go sign Sheets and Glaus with the $9 million saved, then we’ve effectively dealt Millwood for Sheets, Glaus and Ray. That would be a good deal.
Obviously, not reinvesting the saving in the roster makes this a very bad deal.
by Darrell McKown on Dec 9, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
Ray
I don’t dislike bringing a guy like Ray in, what bothers me is trading one of your top starting pitchers for Ray + cash.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
either way im not a fan of this
I can only hope its clearing payroll for something bigger
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
That's the only thing I can think of.
Clearing payroll to sign a solid SP and maybe a bat.
She say she are the manager.
by rockin_rangers on Dec 9, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
And Chris Ray is the best the Rangers could do here?
Nothing against him- he was an emerging stud closer before the TJ surgery- but surely with the O’s pile of SP prospects, the Rangers could have gotten one of those guys instead.
Either there’s another move in the works, or JD has more faith in Feldman, Hunter, etc. to make up the Millwood/Padilla innings than I do. Not that any of our remaining options are terrible, just inexperienced, and I think they need that veteran fronting the rotation just to take the pressure off a bit. I’m not at all comfortable with Scott Feldman and Tommy Hunter as our #1 and 2, and I say that as a fan of both pitchers.
"Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."
RC
If there’s not another move, we can write off 2010.
It’s going to be shaky if the money is used on Harden/Bedard & Dye but if they don’t replace the 198 IPs that Millwood gave them last year, it’s going to get ugly.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Two points.
First, what makes you think Millwood would give you 198 innings NEXT year?
Second, what makes you think that the quality of Millwood’s (plus whoever the substitute he would likely need to get there)‘s innings will be better than Harden/Sheets/etc + their substitute’s innings?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Millwood's 2nd half
was terrible. I’m perfectly fine with his 198 innings gone given the way he pitched from July on.
Agreed
That’s my chief concern- replacing those innings. I think it’s very possible to find a pitcher who can pitch as well as Millwood did in 2009, but the ones that are out there aren’t nearly as durable, and 200 innings don’t magically replace themselves.
Millwood wasn’t great, but he was at least average for nearly 200 innings, and guys that can do that are worth more than a reclamation project lefty, no matter how much cash the O’s are picking up.
"Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."
He was excellent
for about 90 innings and terrible for 90. The last 90 are what bothered me of course and what I expect him to do next year.
Rotation
I don’t know that Feldman-Hunter is much worse that Feldman-Millwood. This team didn’t have a legit top of the rotation starter in any event.
by Darrell McKown on Dec 9, 2009 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
Ray
Millwood for Ray is a bad deal. Depends on what we do with the savings.
by Darrell McKown on Dec 9, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
thats the key
what are they going to do with the savings.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Hicks has got to make some money somehow...
She say she are the manager.
by rockin_rangers on Dec 9, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Hicks won't make any money on this deal
Players get paid only during the season. Hicks will be gone by April (or at least only have a small share of the ownership of the team).
by Darrell McKown on Dec 9, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Lower parking rates
to $11 this year instead of 12
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Dec 9, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Im not a fan of it even if they do something with the money saved
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Really?
Don’t think Ray is going to bounce back or what?
I think Luke French has a lot of potential. TORP potential.-Dstar
Im not counting on it
As I said somewhere above, im not objecting to bringing a guy like ray in I just think they gave up a lot here to get an injured reliever who may or may not turn into what he was
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Same here
I think they jumped the gun on this one. They should have given it more time, bring some more suitors into the picture, etc.
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
Hi, Keith. Is this the year Edinson Volquez finally wins RoY?
I don't know
If Millwood were coming to the Rangers who would be be comfortable giving up? I think his value might just be Chris Ray unless you pick up more salary. That’s why I wouldn’t deal him at all if that’s the case.
We can’t really evaluate, though, until we know for sure the deal went down, and what they do with the money saved.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
+ Juan
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
CJ in the rotation
and I think we go after Sheets, too
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 9, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
Jason Stark tweets....
Rangers official denies Millwood-to-Balt deal is done, says Rangers “haven’t signed off on it.”
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
People should really read the RonWash chat
Man those ads piss me off...
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
Are you peppering him?
Or are people lobbing softballs ..
"Nothing we do here has a point" - Czar Morris
by inactive lsb user on Dec 9, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
it's over
and a couple people asked some hard questions and he answered it in a way that doesn’t instill confidence.
track record.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"The purpose of life is to have a fucking good time." - Albert Ellis
Free up 9 mil and get Ray
I really like Ray and if you put the 9 mil to good use, this is a good deal.
I think Luke French has a lot of potential. TORP potential.-Dstar
You have to pay Ray
so it wouldn’t be quite 9 mil.
by Anonymous New Guy on Dec 9, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
I just don't know if I like it.
You’re giving away Millwood for $9 million dollars of savings and an unreliable, but promising, relief pitcher?
I don’t see how that buys you a DH and an SP. Maybe best case scenario, but how often does that happen?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
i don't know why people think it buys you both
you either get:
- a decent DH bat (only because there aren’t great bats out there) and have some money left over to take a flyer on some guy
- play the SP lottery (and I doubt there is much money left over to get a significant bat)
- pay a little bit more and get a good SP who might be better than Millwood
Well, I'm pretty sure 2 of their DHs and SPs that have been mentioned will go for around 10 million combined
just not the two we all want..
the preceding post was a great success.
this is what i think
you arent gonna get much impact with 2-4 mil, but now with around 12 mil you can get 2 impact guys…
"Elvis Andrus has just preformed a MIRACLE!"
-Eric Nadel, 5/4/09
Schooled again
And the list of people calling out the village idiot keeps growing.
This thread was a great success.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
OT: Terrell Owens signs modeling contract with Wilhelmina Models
So who's todays mistress? They're coming out of the Woodswork!
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