On MLB Network NOW!
by NorCalRangersFan on Feb 22, 2009 11:59 AM CST
39 comments
Just clicking through the channels and got to MLB network and found the they are showing Nolan's 7th no-hitter against Toronto on May 1, 1991. They just completed the 5th inning. Note that I am in PST. I do not know if MLB channel has same programming on at all times across US, so ymmv.
This reminded me of a memory I have from 1989 or 90 where I clearly remember another Nolan Ryan game where he had a no-hitter into the 9th when Julio Franco booted what would have been the last out. The next batter promptly broke up the no-no. I have googled around for this game, but I have been unable to find it anywhere. Did a game like this actually happen, or did I dream it?
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This is a fun game to watch
Its funny listening to the Toronto announcers (the game wasn’t even on in DFW – though they broke into the local news to show the last inning, if I recall). The whole game – even at the start – they are just fawning over Ryan.
I love Nolan (I have my autographed Nolan v Ventura picture next to me), but I have completely forgotten the spectacle that he was. He may not have been the best pitcher ever – but has there been anyone since him as completely captivating to watch on the mound?
by JBImaknee on Feb 22, 2009 12:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Clemens
that’s got to be the answer for the TV era (as much as people don’t want it to be)
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
by ab03 on Feb 22, 2009 11:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They were all dominating during different periods, but I don't think captivating describes them.
Ryan, in all of his “overrated-ness” was captivating. Advanced age, still bringing it, and anything could happen on any night he pitched. People wanted to watch Ryan pitch. Clemens, Pedro, Johnson…..people didn’t really tune it or show up just to see them. Ryan had that aura.
When you think back on it, he had a long career, with a bunch of highlights, but what he did in his relatively short time in Texas was more exciting than what those other dudes did in their entire careers.
300th win – just happened to be while in Texas, but great publicity
5,000th strike out – just happened to be while in Texas, but great publicity
6th & 7th No hitters – Again, at an advanced age, great publicity and great drama
Fight with Ventura – Old dude charged by young buck…great addition to legacy
Ball hit by Bo Jackson hitting him in the mouth – bloody mouth and blood on jersey, kept pitching, more legacy building.
Last pitch – Injury (against Seattle) was Nolan’s retirement. Didn’t just retire, went out on the mound, when arm finally just had enough.
Say what you will about Ryan, his legacy stands the test of time. One or two no-hitters can be called dumb luck, but 7 shows his ability was not a fluke. Longevity got him to 300 wins and 5,000 strike outs, but come on, that’s a testament to his hard work and effort, not something to be criticized for. There have been plenty of great players, but very few become legends.
I miss 1989. I miss 1996. Please make me miss another season in 2008.
by Chaim Witz on Feb 23, 2009 4:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Dominating week-in/week-out, Clemens has to be up there for the past fifteen or twenty years. Pedro around the turn of the century is probably the most dominating few years of anyone since Koufax. Maddux’s quiet manipulation of every batter throughout the ’90’s is something that may never be seen again.
But none of those guys were the attraction that Nolan was league-wide. This is very different from being the best pitcher around, which he never really was. He was far too erratic – some games, especially in his Texas days, he just didn’t have it. But there was no one more dominating than he was on those days that he was on, like the Toronto no-hitter. Watching that game was just mind-blowing – the Blue Jays got about 5 good swings on him the whole night. Listening to the Blue Jays announcers talk about Nolan, Nolan, Nolan from the start of the game was completely different than anyone in baseball today. Its just something you don’t see now.
Adam is right – all statistical measures suggest that Nolan is overrated. Baseball statistics have a systematic bias towards consistent players. And since consistency is actually a valuable asset, that probably isn’t a bad thing. That doesn’t change the fact that he had a non-trivial number of games where he was arguably the best pitcher you could stick out there. He just had lots of games where he wasn’t that.
by JBImaknee on Feb 23, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This game?
Nolan threw a number of 1 hitters, but this is the closest to what you described I could find.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TOR/TOR198904230.shtml
The no-no broke up in the 9th by a triple then a groundout knocked him in. Doesn’t say there was an error by Franco, but it may not have been scored that way. Other than that there was a 1 hitter in ’90 but the one hit came in the second inning. Search on baseball-reference, complete play by play of the games.
by texasbuckeye on Feb 22, 2009 12:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nolan
12 – 1 hitters
7 – No-hitters
Arguably the most dominating pitcher of all-time, he just pitched on bad teams, so he didn’t get the wins that others have
Another one bites the dust! And another one, and another one, and another one bites the dust!
by NothinG on Feb 22, 2009 1:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I saw him pitch this 2-hitter in the Astrodome.
You lost Bradley and you seem like a bunch of arrogant sons of bitches, your pitching always sucks!!
by shroomer on Feb 22, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly...Why even type that in this thread?
I miss 1989. I miss 1996. Please make me miss another season in 2008.
by Chaim Witz on Feb 23, 2009 3:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brilliant!
No better place to bring up Nolan being overrated than a thread talking about his 7th no hitter, and the fact people find it interesting to finally see it.
And do you not like Nolan Ryan either? Was he overpaid? Did he whine almost as much as any player that ever played here? Do you dislike his minor deity status in this area?
Interesting. It appears that some of the troll hunters have become trolls themselves.
I know, I’m being a little defensive right now. I do understand that a great pitcher, not an overrated one like Ryan, would have been able to throw a perfect game instead of giving up some walks in his 7th career no-hitter.
I miss 1989. I miss 1996. Please make me miss another season in 2008.
by Chaim Witz on Feb 23, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I was responding to this:
Arguably the most dominating pitcher of all-time, he just pitched on bad teams, so he didn’t get the wins that others have
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 23, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Understood
I miss 1989. I miss 1996. Please make me miss another season in 2008.
by Chaim Witz on Feb 23, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As I say above
Domination comes in different forms. There were games that Nolan was probably as unhittable as anyone in recent history. That dominance was real, and should be acknowledged. The difference is that he was only like that a handful of games a year, the other games he ranged from a very good pitcher, to league average, to actually bad.
Dominance does not imply consistency. Tom Seaver and Greg Maddux were consistent. Nolan Ryan was not. But on those days that Nolan was dominant, you could say that he was “arguably the most dominant pitcher of all-time” Its just wrong to say that he was always that.
by JBImaknee on Feb 23, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can agree with all of this
And I’m a Nolan homer.
by WyoRanger on Feb 23, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I understand that
I was thinking of dominance through a career, and the lack of Cy Young’s definitely points to him never being unquestionably dominant through any given entire season.
Get off my lawn.
by DJCahill on Feb 23, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Nolan just never had that week-in/week-out consistency necessary to be the best pitcher over a season. Which ultimately is what makes a great pitcher valuable – he wins you a lot of games that you otherwise would not have won.
I think Nolan advocates are wrong when they suggest he was that type of pitcher – he simply wasn’t. Putting him on the Royals, Orioles, or the Mets in the ‘70s and ’80s wouldn’t have changed his winning percentage by all that much (though it would have helped some).
Likewise, Nolan detractors are sort of missing the point as well. Consistency wasn’t part of his greatness, just like K’s weren’t part of Maddux’s and durability wasn’t part of Pedro’s. But the tails of Ryan’s variability were big, and the good tail was better than almost anyone else’s tail (if this makes sense to people)
There may be fifteen pitchers from 1970-2000 I’d rather have start a must-win playoff game (peak Pedro, peak Carlton, and peak Clemens head that list) – which says a lot about . But even if I were running out one of those guys, I’d be terrified to go up against Nolan, since he’s the one guy, who if on his game, could beat anyone.
Case in point: Nolan vs Clemens in his prime, I’ll never forget listening to this game on the radio as a 9 year old kid. Raffy was one of my favorites from this day forward
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TEX/TEX198904300.shtml
by JBImaknee on Feb 23, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
feller had 12 one hitters also btw
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 23, 2009 8:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
also i think one guy broke up 3 of his no hitters
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 23, 2009 8:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was at the 7th No-No
Somebody mentioned in another thread that Juan was in CF, but unless I am really losing my mind, I thought that Pettis was in CF and made a great play in center to keep it alive. Am I mistaken?
Also, I was at another game that buckeye may have been referring to earlier. It was a rainy day but the Rangers were playing the White Sox. It was Ryan vs. Melido Perez. If my memory serves me right, Ryan threw a one hitter and Perez threw a two hitter.
The hit against Ryan was a bloop pop up just behind 1st base in the outfield, yet playable. I believe it was Palmeiro who slipped when he started back for it and the ball just dropped in. If he wouldn’t have slipped, I believe he would have caught it.
Either way, it was a great game and very intense because of the strong pitching duel. This was during the 1.5 -2 seasons that Melido Perez was considered a dominant pitcher.
I miss 1989. I miss 1996. Please make me miss another season in 2008.
by Chaim Witz on Feb 22, 2009 1:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Pettis
He was the CF in the no-hitter. I watched the game earlier, and the announcer made a comment about how Juan would have been in CF had Brian Downing been the DH that night, as he usually was. And Pettis did make a great catch to save the no-hitter.
This was the first time I’d ever seen the game (other than the bit that NBC showed when it happened) and it was every bit the dominating performance that everyone says it was.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on Feb 22, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that was me
I was referring to the announcer commenting on how gonzalez was supposed to start the game in CF but had a sore hamstring
by Michael Cave on Feb 22, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't remember Julio costing Nolan a no-hitter
But I do remember he broke up a Dave Stieb no-hitter with 2 outs in the 9th. And then in Stieb’s next start he lost another no-hitter with 2 outs in the 9th. That close to matching Vandemeer.
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
by scoop16 on Feb 22, 2009 1:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It might have been this one...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TEX/TEX198906250.shtml
I think the single to center should have been been an out. Of course, you’d expect the home scorer would have scored it as an error if there was any doubt.
20 years fogs the memory a little.
by NorCalRangersFan on Feb 22, 2009 1:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That must be why I used to think Felix Fermin
was a Ranger killer. Because the overall numbers don’t suggest that, Career vs. Rangers-.252 .310 .277 I guess breaking up a no-hitter will scar a young lad.
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
by scoop16 on Feb 22, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't even a Rangers fan...
’til the following season.
All I can remember about that game was thinking damn, 7 no-hitters.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Feb 22, 2009 3:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of the MLB Network. I noticed they are having a program about Josh Hamilton on Friday night at 8, so I had to set the DVR.
by GregoryM on Feb 22, 2009 8:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
2 days before i was born
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on Feb 22, 2009 9:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The 7th No-Hitter
Like most of you I enjoyed watching the ballgame on MLB Network yesterday.
As some one posted, the game was not televised locally…Late in the game, channel 5 plugged into the Toronto production truck without permission and did get in some trouble for that.
Official attendance was 33,000 but by the end of the game I remember security telling us that 40,000 plus were in the park. As the game went on, the crowd grew bigger. That game also was the last time we ever had a “Pack the Park” promotion. We use to go to a place like Kroger or Winn Dixie and sell them a bunch of tickets for .50 apiece…especially for Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday nights, once a month….and then at the check out, Kroger would give people 4 tickets to a game.
Nolan created a problem this particular night because we ran out of the bleacher seats and it was decided that we could no longer do the promotion and take the chance of one of those games falling on a night that Nolan would pitch.
Again, I enjoyed watching the game yesterday….and for those that today say our fans are not into the games, that was an example of our fans cheering on every pitch…same thing when I watched Kenny’s perfect game a month ago on ESPN.
I really enjoy the MLB Network so far, I think they are doing a pretty good job.
Thanks
Chuck Morgan
by chuckranger83 on Feb 23, 2009 8:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
chuck i gotta question
how does Hart get paid to consult for the rangers and work for MLBTV? seems like a conflict of interest for the rangers…
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Feb 23, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll have to answer like A-Rod......
That’s a good question.
I tuned in yesterday and saw John Hart on the panel.
I never heard or do I know what the parameters are for his consulting role.
I would like to get a contract lilke that though.
by chuckranger83 on Feb 23, 2009 3:07 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
thanx chuck
if you could get a firm answer on what his parameters are, i think it would be one of the answers to the biggest questions most have had around here for a long time.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Feb 24, 2009 6:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Josh Hamilton special
On Fri night, 2/27th, at 8 p.m. CST, they are airing a special on Josh Hamilton.
-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"Every day is a new opportunity. You can build on yesterday's success or put its failures behind and start over again. That's the way life is, with a new game every day, and that's the way baseball is." -Bob Feller
by baseballismyboyfriend on Feb 23, 2009 7:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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