Tom Hicks is still...
by red3biggs on Feb 26, 2009 6:16 PM CST
65 comments
a fuckin idiot
http://www.star-telegram.com/284/story/1225907.html
"From the reports I’m hearing, I think our best off-season signing was Mike Maddux," Hicks said.
Jeez, and i thought you were going to brag about all the NRI FA's you signed to help the AAA club....
Although, he may be an idiot, he is no fool.
The Rangers have had one winning season this decade. What have you done this off season about it?
"We’ve reinforced the owner’s suite with Kevlar and made room for the Secret Service."
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Duh, lightswitch?
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I, for one, think the Hicks bashing is getting old
by JBImaknee on Feb 26, 2009 6:30 PM CST reply actions 8 recs
I will give posters here credit
While there was a lot of Daniels bashing beyond when I think he deserved it late in 2007 and early in 2008, I think that very few here have continued over the past, say, nine months, when it’s been clear that he hasn’t deserved it. If one only listens to (particularly afternoon) local radio he might think that Daniels is under fire, but that’s really the only place where you’ll hear people so out of touch (besides a very small handful of posters on blogs) that they don’t realize that he’s done well for the past two years.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 26, 2009 7:54 PM CST up reply actions
Really?
I don’t disagree that it’s been going on for a while, but I also can’t disagree with sentiment. On the other hand, there’s a hell of a lot better chance of a change in management than a change in ownership, so it seems pretty irrelevant.
My argument
I make a controversial post, then don’t check it for 5 hours or so… nice response. So I’ll back up my claim.
Of course Hicks has his warts. He’s too quick to pull the trigger, whether it is spending money on someone hot or changing strategies before they get a chance to work. He says stupid things, mostly related to his ego being disproportionately large.
But these critiques aren’t unique to Hicks. And Hicks has some positives as well – he’s at least partially willing to take advice from the experts he hires. He will spend money when needed. He actually cares about the team winning (I refuse to think he’s as apathetic to team success as, say, Nintendo is in Seattle). He doesn’t meddle in the team at low levels (he’s not telling Washington to play Teagarden because he’s a Longhorn, or signing players to long-term deals because they are Japanese).
Other owners do these types of stupid things. Drayton McLane is miles away a worse owner than Tom Hicks. They aren’t even in the same ballpark. Moores in San Diego (who is selling the team now) is a worse owner. And those are just the two non-Ranger teams I’ve followed due to proximity. I’m sure there are many other bad owners/ownership groups that are worse than Hicks.
Sure he’s not Arte Moreno or the coalition of Red Sox owners. But if the Rangers were one player away from being a winning club, he’d make the investment (heck, he obviously signed off on Sheets this year). Not everyone does that.
Anyway, its almost too cliche to bash the owner. On the list of people at fault for the “lost decade” of the Rangers, Tom Hicks is not at the top.
The problem with this:
Sure he’s not Arte Moreno or the coalition of Red Sox owners. But if the Rangers were one player away from being a winning club, he’d make the investment (heck, he obviously signed off on Sheets this year). Not everyone does that.
is that it requires the assumption that those others who have one of the seven or so lowest payrolls in the league have equal revenue stream to Hicks. It’s obviously impossible to know exactly what these clubs are bringing in since they’re private and secretive, but I suspect that, as opposed to a Kansas City, who may have no choice but to make their payroll they’re payroll, the very fact that Hicks has the ability to say that his payroll is player specific means that money is being held back. I don’t necessarily have a problem with that, assuming that the savings now are invested later, but I feel like there is certainly more burden of proof on the fact that he would sincerely and fully back the club when it is competitive, rather than try to pull a jedi mind trick on the fans and tell them that he never said he’d invest substantially more in a competitive club. And let’s be honest, a Sheets deal, while risky, was not a big financial investment. It doesn’t even compare with Padilla, much less Millwood in the scheme of things, both of which are soon expiring, of course.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 27, 2009 8:56 AM CST up reply actions
Hicks bashing in many cases is 100% deserved and should continue unless
he changes certain behavior patterns – and for a good, long while. So I disagree on disliking Hicks bashing in general. But I do think that he’s doing much better in this article and in his couple of appearances lately in the media. Many of his statements are on target, which is far from a given. However good of a job Nolan Ryan will do for the Rangers in the long run, he has been a terrific influence on Hicks thus far.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 26, 2009 7:46 PM CST up reply actions
Which behavior patterns are you talking about
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Im curious what you are referring to
I in no way think Hicks has been a great owner but alot of the bashing he gets is overblown IMO.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
First and foremost it’s his management style. I’ve ranted often and at length about my issues with his leadership and management styles, and those exhibit themselves in many of the other symptoms and issues. Beyond and resulting from that central issue it’s things like the pattern of expecting cart before horse things like better attendance and more winning before he wanted to commit more to payroll, bad choices on hires, dragging his club from a high revenue to, according to him, low revenue team in less than a decade, his A.D.D., making autocratic declarations about a sport that he clearly hasn’t taken the time to learn and understand (such as they’re not going to trade any more first round picks after dealing Danks didn’t work out), stuff like that.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 26, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions
Lets also not forget his insistance that the players owe something to him (namelty appologizes) while he has offered none to his players or us the fans (other than admitting it took him awhile to stop being a bad owner!)
Players and owners are all in this to make money.
The fact that he got his feelings hurt by what certain players did, while offering nothing back for what he’s decided on, or how his crappy golf shirt GM treated the players and used the media to bad mouth them behind their backs….
"I Blame Mark Conner"
And lest you or someone else try to
drag me into some sort of argument on this, some of the things he’s been saying are refreshing in regard to a handful of these issues. Ryan and Daniels have done a good job of helping him understand where they are, because he said a handful of things that showed better insight into the club’s situation than he typically shows. His comments in the Q&A saying that while their sales have been affected by the economy, if the club can show fans success, he believes that many more will come, and this season. That’s certainly growth from his previous stances.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 26, 2009 8:57 PM CST up reply actions
Im not trying to drag you into an argument
I just don’t get still being upset over stuff that happened a long time ago. Hes made mistakes…sure. But in the last couple years I can’t think of really anything to bitch and moan about other than his business model (raising ticket prices, etc). But you know what, hes a businessman first and foremost and an owner second. He bought the team to make money. We as Dallas-ites have been spoiled by the Mark Cubans and Jerry Jones’. Those are not the norm of sports owners. Its a business to most. And while his business idea about raising ticket prices on a rebuilding team and thinking that more fans will come, especially in this economy, probably doesn’t match up to most sane business models. Its his and if thats how he wants to run his business thats his decision. If you don’t like it the easy thing is to not purchase tickets and put money in his pockets.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Like I said
I’m not going to debate his negatives when the whole point is that he’s been doing better lately.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 26, 2009 9:28 PM CST up reply actions
Yes he has
Which is why I think its wrong to say the bashing is deserved and should continue unless he changes his ways when the fact is he has changed for some time now and yet he is still getting bashed.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
But you're not looking to
drag me into a debate.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 26, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
Not really
Was just curious when you said he should be criticized based on his behavior patterns if they don’t change what that meant. It obviously meant you are still very pissed about stuff that happened quite a while ago and even though he has changed it still gets brought up. Its the exact same with the JD arguments. He has changed since getting hired but people still want to drag up stuff that happened a long time ago when they complain about him.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Your opinion
needs more paragraphs before Z will really get what you are saying.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Feb 27, 2009 8:43 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry
large steve’s posts are always really long and give me tired head.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Feb 27, 2009 9:09 AM CST up reply actions
Its a jab at me
I could really care less. If you don’t want to read what I wrote all you gotta do is hit “z” and it goes to the next comment.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
If we're going to nitpick
you should be saying
“the bashing should be less intensive than in the past.”
It’s still perfectly valid to bash on Hicks for the dumb things he does (e.g., raising ticket prices on a low quality product in a tough economic environment).
I must say, Hicks on the whole has seemed to improve since Ryan came on board. Hopefully, that will continue.
Up until then, I hadn’t seen much if any change (in fact, it could probably be said that he looked worse in the whole Liverpool debacle).
R
I agree.
There are some things he should take flack for, but I really don’t have any real problems with the off season we just had.
Hicks was more than willing to pony up big bucks for Inoa, Tazawa and Sheets, it’s just that none of them ended up working out.
Sure it would’ve been nice to deal a catcher for a nice young starter or to have signed CC Sabathia, but those weren’t realistic options imo and Hicks can’t really be blamed for not making ’em happen.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
I hate Michael Young.
"I don’t have any respect for anybody on here. Everyone on here is a fucking asshole who thinks they’re god compared to everyone else." -iorange555, throwing one of his patented sandy-vagina'd hissy fits.
by thedirkatron on Feb 26, 2009 8:20 PM CST up reply actions
i am quite happy we missed out on tazawa
i just dont see the “upside” in him compared to how much he would have cost
id MUCH rather pony up that money in LA or in the draft (grabbing a guy who slides b/c of money concerns)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Feb 26, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah
at least at this point it sounds like Viciedo would have been a better upside investment, if you are hoping for a difference maker.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 26, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions
Hicks...
Yes, he leaves a lot to be desired as the owner of our favorite team, but dissecting everything he says is absurd. The Kevlar quote was in response to a question about whether or not George W would be attending any games this year. Let it go.
Just like AJM’s post this morning about asking Hicks if he still thinks John Hart is the smartest man in baseball. Good grief, that’s the same as asking AJM if he still thinks Mike Young will never be anything more than a .260 hitter. Let it go people Hart hasn’t been the GM for 3 years and ARod’s not coming back.
Hart
Was on MLB saying being a GM is a 24/365 job…… I might or might not have thrown my shoe at my TV
"I Blame Mark Conner"
Hart's smarter than that
Why do a piss poor job working 24/365 when you can make it a 3/28 job
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
The horse...
…is not dead. It just varies the size of club I need to beat it with.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 26, 2009 8:19 PM CST up reply actions
My problem with Hicks bashing
is that much of the time people are bashing him for the wrong reasons. (like being cheap, which he’s not, or saying he doesn’t care about winning, ridiculous.)
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
The fact that their payroll
is now consistently in the bottom 3rd/4th of the league is almost exclusively a function of his ineptitude then? I’ve been torn on how to view that. While I don’t think that Tom Hicks is cheap, per se, I don’t know how you get around the fact that since his personal fortune has had its issues and since the economy has fluctuated some this decade, this franchise has gone from a high revenue, high payroll club to extremely low end payroll and either low revenue or one that pockets revenues quickly and consistently year to year. That’s all ineptitude and no part fear of spending, etc.?
by Brett Perryman on Feb 27, 2009 8:50 AM CST up reply actions
Being afraid
of spending right now is different from being “cheap”, though. And Hicks has shown, several times, the willingness to open the coffers for certain players. They spent well on the draft and internationally, and he was willing to spend big on Zito, Matsuzaka, Hunter, Sheets, etc.
He’s an ass who has knee-jerked the payroll, no doubt. But I still feel like that over the next few years he will do what is necessary to keep a contending team together, especially as the economy recovers and he feels less pressure from his other business interests. If his other businesses are doing poorly, even if they are not directly or even indirectly tied to the Rangers payroll, that will have a psychological effect.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
I guess what it really boils down to is that we don’t really know what he’ll do when the time comes, and I have more pessimistic feelings about the overall payroll. Sure he’ll offer to pay for particular players, but my feeling is that there will be a flip side to that. I mean he gave Young this huge contract, but that didn’t change where they sit in overall payroll in the league for the better. They’re as low as ever.
And one distinction that I’d make is that when we say “now” it’s not like Hicks was keeping up with the Joneses, then this November wisely stopped spending. The Rangers dropped like a rock earlier this decade and stayed there regardless of environmental economic conditions.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 27, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Also
If you think about what an approach that says "I’ll pay for a Zito, but if we don’t get him the payroll will have stay at xx, that is an extremely troubling way to run a team. If it’s not a matter of cheapness, fine. But it’s not good.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 27, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
I go back and forth on this
But frankly, I’m not sure that is such a bad thing. If you don’t get impact player A at $20 mil per year, why spend $20 mil per year on 3 or 4 non-impact guys? I didn’t like that point of view until I saw a real commitment to the player development system in the past 2 years. Now, I’d rather him stick the Ben Sheets money into Latin America than sign some loser like Kris Benson (uhhh, oops.. I mean "sign a loser like Benson to a Major League contract).
Kansas City has done that for years… throw a $3 mil contract at some guy who is a “proven hitter”… but is way below replacement level. And as a result, they suck.
Well
when you spend FA money on players who cost less than the top end types you certainly are at risk of just wasting your money. It becomes an issue of making good moves. But what I’d maintain is that a well run team with a higher overall payroll can do other things, such as trade for solid players who are a little overpaid, sign more of their own guys to cost certain deals, stuff like that. And in that vein, it’s been brought up in this thread, but absolutely the best thing about Hicks’ approach has been that while the Rangers aren’t among the biggest spenders in amateur talent acquisition, they are on the upper end, unlike with their payroll. And that’s been important to their optimistic outlook.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 27, 2009 8:07 PM CST up reply actions
Like I think you are
I’m hoping the Ryan-Daniels team can continue to be a good influence as far as future payrolls go.
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Tom Hicks is one of the 5-10 worst owners
in professional sports and probably the worst owner in MLB.
After the 2004 season, we had a young, talented, successful (89-73) team and a minor league system bulging with soon to be high quality major leaguers (Eddy V, Danks, CYoung, Kinsler, CJ, AGonzales).
We had all of this and what should have been a ton of financial flexibility to secure whatever free agents we wanted (Beltran, Delgado, Lowe) given that we are in the # 5 media market plus the fans that had turned their back on this team in 2003 returned in droves (attendance increased nearly 6000 per game).
I personally thought the Texas Ranger organization had the brightest future in MLB after 2004 but then the owner got in the way and started making some really strange decisions.
Hicks decided that was a great time to raise parking and ticket prices and leave the payroll where it was and about those free agents, how about we get Pedro Astacio & Big Dick Hidalgo?
What happened?
The clubhouse was poisoned irreparably. Players turned on ownership/management and the GM “resigned” the following year.
It began to resonate with the fans that Tom Hicks placed a much higher priority on having a small market payroll than he did on winning resulting in a “tsunami of indifference” with his fan-base.
Attendance is down 600,000 since JD (Hicks’ personal choice to be GM) took over, the team has yet to finish above .500 since that fateful 2004 season and they’re picked by the most credible (non-homers) sources to lose 90 games in 2009.
There are a lot of reasons this team is where it is right now (one of the biggest jokes in MLB) but most of the blame falls in the lap of Tom Hicks.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
As a Stars fan,
I’m pretty sure I couldn’t call Hicks one of the 5-10 worst owners in sports. Before there was a salary cap, he had one of the highest payrolls there and notwkeeps that team’s payroll up against the ceiling. He’ll sign players or trade for players with big contracts. Pitchers don’t really want to come here and it would have been hard to compete with the Mets on Beltran’s contract. I don’t really know why you are saying that we should have tried for Delgado when we had Teixeira and, as you pointed out, Gonzales in the minors. He showed this off-season that he would have spent for Sheets. I don’t know who else would have been a great fit for THIS team this off-season. I’m not saying he has been a great owner in baseball, but he’s doing a better job of having the right people in place to make things better and if you are going to bring all sports into the discussion, you have to bring his other ownership history into it as well.
You got that right Outlaw...
“The fish stinks from the head”.
Nolan must of gotten him in a room and Robin Venturad him, the Schmuck meter isn’t going off quite as much as it used to.
Have any Ranger pitchers gone on the D L today? No? O K I'll check back in 10 minutes.
I know if i was a player
the thing that would poison my experiance to play is knowing ppl are paying more to see me…. Just thinking about that makes me pissed.
If only he had left those prices the same… the players would have found it in themselves to win.
"I Blame Mark Conner"
Hicks bashing
If you guys want to see some real Hicks bashing, I suggest visiting one of the many Liverpool message boards. At least we manage to keep the comments relatively PG-rated on this side of the pond…
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
Would it be a cool PR gesture
To fly a couple hundred Liverpudlians here for a Rangers series, and a couple hundred Ranger fans to Liverpool to see the Red ? I wonder if that has ever hit the Hicks inbox ?
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Feb 26, 2009 10:42 PM CST up reply actions
The Liverpool fans would fit in on Opening Day, every Saturday night in Arlington, and select 'red out' weekends.
I have fulfilled all my prophecies; all my predictions are up to date.
My train is right on schedule.
Absolutely
I’d love to attend a Liverpool match on Hicks’ dime. I know it wouldn’t be hard to get a group together just from our supporters’ group chapter here in Dallas- three of our regulars flew to Madrid to watch yesterday’s match in person.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
Hicks
At the risk of being pilloried, my Tom Hicks hatred is currently about as low as it’s ever been. Aside from maybe Manny, I can’t really think of anyone I wish that he had signed this off season (I was all about Sheets but I’m glad we dodged that bullet). He’s been pretty patient and allowed JD to continue with his program. I much prefer the last year-year and a half to the previous few when the team would swing back and forth between rebuilding-vs.-win now. That’s always been my biggest problem with Hicks, the lack of a long-term plan. I like that he has turned over the reigns a little, and I have a feeling that over the next 2-3 years it’s going to start paying off big time.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
Hicks
My Hicks hatred went down a couple notches this morning- Rick Parry is leaving his job as the chairman of Liverpool at the end of the season. Hicks and the manager, Rafa Benitez, both wanted Parry gone- mostly because he’s a first-class twit who’s screwed up numerous transfer deals over the years- and it looks like they’ve gotten their way.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
It's speculation
but I don’t think that Daniels would still be here if Nolan hadn’t been brought in when he was. That was still a Hicks hire, so that is still a credit to him. But the fact that we’re all less annoyed with Hicks right now is almost completely a function of Ryan taking control of things that Hicks used to be directly involved in. He hasn’t spend a dime this offseason, literally, so that’s really a nonfactor. Sort of like hiring Parcells was an out of character stroke of genius for Jerry Jones, bringing in Ryan seems to have been one of the best things Hicks has ever done as an owner, if for no other reason than that he seems to be able to save Hicks from himself.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 27, 2009 9:02 AM CST up reply actions
great point
Especially the part about having someone there to save Hicks from himself. I feel like Hart could have served that role when he was there, but of course that guy was just out to lunch the whole time he was here.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
Theres no way Hart could have done what Nolan has done
Hart was a yes man. Nolan isn’t
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
That's been my point all along...
Nolan isn’t here to “straighten out Jonny donuts”; he’s here to keep Hicks away from the day-to-day decisions as much as possible.
Nolan is here as a buffer for Hicks AND
he’s here to also straighten out Jonny Donuts.
The level of front office dumb-assery with the Texas Rangers came to an abrupt halt on February 1, 2008.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Always good to link to a story that was in the morning links
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
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