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The bullpen situation

Okay...Eddie Guardado has signed a minor league deal.  The reality, though, is that he's going to end up on the 25 man roster unless he gets hurt.  He's a lock for the bullpen.

At this point, you have to figure there will be a 7 man bullpen, and barring injury, four spots are pretty much locks:

Frankie Francisco

Eddie Guardado

C.J. Wilson

Josh Rupe

I have to think that both Derrick Turnbow and Willie Eyre are more likely than not to end up making the bullpen, although neither is a slam dunk (although I still think that if Eyre wasn't close to a lock, he wouldn't have been put on the 40 man roster).

If Turnbow and Eyre both stick, you have to figure that the last spot is going to go to a true long-man type.  Dustin Nippert seems to be the most likely to end up there, although if Scott Feldman moves to the pen (which would only seem likely if Ben Sheets get signed), he'd probably fill that role.  Kason Gabbard also would seem to be in the mix for a long man spot.

I realize that this isn't an awe-inspiring bullpen.  But the interesting thing about bullpens is that most of the ones that end up doing really well have some guys pop up out of nowhere.  Really, that's what makes bullpens so unique...you can often times dig up a guy as an NRI or as a fringe prospect who can have some things click in the pen and become a quality reliever.

Look at the 2004 team, that had a bad rotation and an outstanding bullpen.  You had Francisco Cordero, whom everyone expected would do well; Carlos Almanzar, an NRI; Frankie Francisco, a guy who wasn't even on the radar after being picked up from Chicago the season before via trade and posting a 7+ ERA in AA; Brian Shouse, a 35 year old LOOGY with one good major league season under his belt; and Ron Mahay, a former NRI and converted outfielder who had kicked around the league for a while.

Those guys logged 60% of the bullpen innings for the Rangers in 2004, and were the reason that the bullpen was arguably the best in the A.L. that season.  Having guys show up and put it together -- Almanzar and Francisco, in particular -- was the key.

If you are looking for the 2009 version of Almanzar, it may well be Turnbow.  The conventional wisdom on Turnbow was that he had one great season with the Brewers and has sucked ever since.  The reality is that his peripherals really haven't been terrible, despite some mediocre numbers, and if he's healthy, he's a reasonable bounce-back candidate.

And the 2009 version of Francisco?  There are a lot of possibilities, really, due to the high number of live arms the Rangers have hanging around.  John Bannister is generating a ton of buzz, and while I don't think he's much of a candidate to make the team out of spring training, he, like Francisco c.2004, has limited experience above A ball and will likely start the season in the minor league pen, but also like Francisco, could end up coming quick if things click for him.

Guillermo Moscoso is a possibility as well, a guy like Bannister who has had injury problems but appears to have put them behind him.  The organization says they are going to look at him in the rotation, and he supposedly has expressed a strong preference for staying in the rotation rather than pitching out of the pen, but his arsenal could well be best suited for a bullpen role.

And there's also Thomas Diamond...everyone knows his story, big guy, big arm, underwent T-J surgery in 2006.  He's largely fallen off the radar, but if he can get a reliable offspeed pitch going this spring, he could be someone who slides into a setup role and produces immediately.

Plus, as has been discussed before, Derek Holland and Neftali Feliz are on the fast track, and either or both could end up pitching at TBIA, either in a rotation or bullpen role, before the season is up.  While their futures lie in the rotation, I could definitely see one of them -- particularly Feliz -- in a Joba-esque setup role while being groomed for the rotation going forward.

In any case, I think the bullpen picture is starting to come into focus.  I'm not expecting a repeat of 2004 or 2007, when the bullpen was dominant and carried the pitching staff.  But I do think an improvement over 2008 is likely, and there are some interesting pieces there that create the possibility of something really nice happening out there in 2009.

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I like Tommy Hunter in the Frankie category as well.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Feb 4, 2009 10:57 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Madrigal

No mention of Madrigal? He seems to have a ticket for AA since he has options. Too bad. I think he will be better than Turbow and Nippert. Why not jettison Nippert and let Rupe be the long man? I also think Hunter is destined for the bullpen.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Feb 4, 2009 10:59 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Doh

I completely blanked on him. I knew I was omitting someone.

He’s definitely someone who could contribute significantly this season, though.

by Adam J. Morris on Feb 4, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You do think he starts in the minors, though, right?

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Feb 4, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Madrigal will be a very good set-up man in 2009. I mean, outside of that one bad game to start his career in Yankee stadium, he posted solid peripherals and a very respectable ERA.

I also have a lot of confidence in CJ Wilson bouncing back from his injury.

I am not too concerned with the pen, especially if CJ is healthy. Francisco is a solid closer, CJ can be a very effective 8th inning set-up man, and Guardado/Madrigal should be respectable in the middle innings.

by Stephen Rushin on Feb 4, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

solid peripherals?

5.5 k/9 isn’t very good for a reliever. It’s pretty bad actually, but his minor league numbers suggest that he will improve that.

"drawing walks is an overrated trait in my eyes."
"i do believe we could have 4 30 start pitchers in the rotation."
-- both these genius remarks brought to you by our resident guru, bigsteve

by tricer on Feb 4, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I might have over spoke. I think it might be more accurate to say he showed substantial improvement in peripherals.

I am not that concerned by his K/9. Like you said, he has a minor league track record to say that will strike people out. I was referring more to his K/BB ratio which got substantially better as the season went on, largely due to a small uptick in K/9, but also a substantial decrease in walks. (5.56 BB/9 in July, 3.21 BB/9 in August, 1.67 BB/9 in September) Overall, it is pretty clear that he has the stuff to be successful and he improved during his time in the majors. I’m excited to see how he pitches next season and I hope he gets a chance to start the season in Arlington.

by Stephen Rushin on Feb 4, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

out pitch

I wouldn’t mind seeing Madrigal in OKC for a couple of months so that he can develop a consistent out pitch. He needs sunstantial IP in Arlington this year so that in 2010 he can be a major part of the Rangers division winning playoff team. (Wouldn’t it be sweet if he were to K Torri Hunter in the 7th inning with the bases loaded in the division clinching game?)

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Feb 4, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

who can we blame for that one game?

Wash right? And if so, what a complete ass he is and was for making such a stupid decision.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Feb 4, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The BP was fried.

They didn’t really have any other options that early in the game.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Feb 4, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

apparently it didn't ruin Warner.

it lost the game for us, but I don’t mind at all putting a young kid out there with potential against a great team in a harsh environment to get his feet wet. I don’t mind that at all. I’d much rather that happen than protect him and give him easy innings for the first several outings, then tossing him into a difficult situation…

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Feb 4, 2009 5:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 6:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Its very hard to predict a good bullpen

so all you can ask is that JD & co. provide pieces that could at least end up being productive. Seems like he’s done that with the signings of guys like Turnbow and Guardardo and the presence of that crop of young high minors type pitchers (Madrigal, Hunter, Bannister) that can be thrown in and out of there as the year goes on to see which ones stick.

Its the guys like Eyre, Loe, and Wright from years past that I never really understood. They’d been around long enough to know that they probably aren’t going to make the team better, but the team just kept putting them out there day after day. Teams should run their bullpen unsympathetically. If you are productive, you stay, if you are unproductive, its to AAA or DFA. None of this keeping guys around who have no long-term future with the club and aren’t helping today.

by JBImaknee on Feb 4, 2009 11:08 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I don't know what Wright did wrong...

I actually quite preferred his relief presence to many of the other names we threw out there

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Feb 4, 2009 5:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Good stuff, Adam

I love how you didn’t mention the Electrician once.

Makes me feel better about the bullpen. There are viable options if someone goes down. Maybe not anyone that you could feel great about right off the bat, but with your points, that doesn’t seem to matter.

(Wife) "So what do you want to watch on the T.V.? UFC or porn?"
(Husband) "Hmm... well, porn, I guess."

by mtex on Feb 4, 2009 11:12 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Is that a crown of thorns?

(Wife) "So what do you want to watch on the T.V.? UFC or porn?"
(Husband) "Hmm... well, porn, I guess."

by mtex on Feb 4, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

something like that...

it his hair standing on end after sticking his finger in a light socket.

by ghostofErikThompson on Feb 4, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The whole world is a light socket when you're the mother f###ing electrician.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith

by thedirkatron on Feb 4, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, way OT, but I found a feldman comp

Looper pitched about 80ip in the bullpen in 06, then pitched 175ip as a starter in 07 and 200 in 08. He is still healthy so at least in his case the verducci effect did not apply and hopefully it plays that way for Feldman if he ends up in the rotation.

by Goyogringo on Feb 4, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yah, the record of guys getting a huge increase in innings while making the transition from 'pen to starter is pretty decent.

The Verducci effect seems to not really effect them so much.

Looper is a good one.

There’s also Derek Lowe going from 91 innings as Boston’s closer in 2001 to 219 innings as a starter in 2002 and was pretty good after that.

Adam Wainwright went from 75 innings in the ’pen 2006 to 202 in 2007 as a starter and was pretty good last year, though he was limited to 130 innings.

John Smoltz came back pretty baller after his stint in the pen, but that’s a different story.

Then there are more recent cases like Ryan Dempster and Justin Duchscherer, but time will tell with those guys since their big relief-to-start innings pitched jumps took place from ’07 to ’08.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith

by thedirkatron on Feb 4, 2009 4:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A great many guys in the 60's and 70's were brought along with this approach.

Up until someone decided that doubleheaders cost money and 5th starters were a regular feature, this was the norm.

by bking on Feb 4, 2009 4:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess the switch

is accompanied by a more regular routine which might be easier than the less predictable up and down bullpen job.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Feb 4, 2009 5:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks for my new Jamey Wright as Jesus/Zeus pic.

(Wife) "So what do you want to watch on the T.V.? UFC or porn?"
(Husband) "Hmm... well, porn, I guess."

by mtex on Feb 4, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nuh-uh.

That avatar is already taken by iorange.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Feb 4, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yah

Even though I don’t think iorange has GoET’s version, this could get confusing.

Yeah. Spies. They're little guys with beady eyes and long fingernails. They plant bugs that can pick up the hush of a man's heartbeat - or the whisper of a falling hair.

by lonestarJon on Feb 4, 2009 4:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Brian Gordon

For some reason, I think he could be this year’s bullpen surprise.

by clark on Feb 4, 2009 11:37 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

The bullpen will give up over 1000 runs

well, maybe not. You really never know with bullpens.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Feb 4, 2009 11:40 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Feliz-esque role

“I could definitely see one of them — particularly Feliz — in a Joba-esque setup role while being groomed for the rotation going forward.”

THIS THIS THIS!!!!

I don’t understand why this doesn’t get more discussion, because I think this is the perfect role for Feliz in 2009. His stuff is too good for AA/AAA hitters… but he need confidence that he can get big leagers out. Working out of the pen is a great way for him to work off his fastball, mix in the occasional breaking pitch — but mostly just throw heat and learn to locate and get experience.

I don’t have to see him before June 1, but I definitely want to see him in this role this year.

by Oddibee on Feb 4, 2009 11:41 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Feliz

probably not until September, I would think. But then, a lot depends on the state of the team (injuries, playoff race)

by clark on Feb 4, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He is a starter

IMO I would start him off in that roll and not in the BP. The Yanks put Joba in the pen because they had a much better starting five than the Rangers did last year. The Rangers rotation is not that good so stick him into the rotation maybe in Sept. and let him compete for a starting job in 2010.

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Breaking a kid in via the bullpen isn't an admission you think that's his long term role.

It’s just a development tool, plain and simple.

It might help ease his transition into the bigs.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith

by thedirkatron on Feb 4, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I understand that D.A. Tron

I just think he would benefit from going right into the rotation.

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 2:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed, but it depends on what things he needs to work on.

If his current need is to refine his secondary stuff and, more importantly, stop tipping them, then he’s best served working on those as a starter in AAA. Once those flaws are under control, I’d agree completely with the bullpen role as his next learning step. Especially late in the year, when his innings count is up and he doesn’t need more starts.

by bking on Feb 4, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

+1

Yeah. Spies. They're little guys with beady eyes and long fingernails. They plant bugs that can pick up the hush of a man's heartbeat - or the whisper of a falling hair.

by lonestarJon on Feb 4, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

One could make the argument either way, imo.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith

by thedirkatron on Feb 4, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that's the way to go

let him refine, then to limit innings, bring him into relief.

it’s not like we won’t have Holland starting for us by year’s end anyways…maybe in addition to Hunter or a big name trade acquisition. So Feliz can start out in 2010 competing for a rotation spot (and most likely/hopefully winning it outright)

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Feb 4, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Needs to be before September

I would start him in the bullpen on day 1 if it wouldn’t have ramifications later (most likely making him a super 2 for arbitration). So I’m ok with June 1. But September doesn’t give him time to do what he really needs to do, and then he starts 2010 as a true rookie with a deer in the headlights look. He needs to start 2010 with confidence that he can get big league hitters out.

Even Ranger history on this type of thing is good. Think of some of the best Ranger starters to come up — many of started in the pen (Kenny Rogers, Darren Oliver — who pitched the best postseason start in Ranger history).

I realize I’m in the minority on this list, but I still believe this would be best for Feliz and the Rangers.

by Oddibee on Feb 4, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

priority one should be Feliz development

he needs to work on his secondary stuff and I think he would be better served by doing that in the minors, for at least half the season.

"drawing walks is an overrated trait in my eyes."
"i do believe we could have 4 30 start pitchers in the rotation."
-- both these genius remarks brought to you by our resident guru, bigsteve

by tricer on Feb 4, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I may be a little late to the party, or slow in the head...

but define “this” and “that” – they seem to be “bad post” and “good post” respectively. am I off base here?

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Feb 4, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty much saying +1, or I agree.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Feb 4, 2009 5:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gagree

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 6:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

They’re all the same, all interchangeable. OC introduced “This” to the mix because +1 isn’t cool enough for him. Or something.

Yeah. Spies. They're little guys with beady eyes and long fingernails. They plant bugs that can pick up the hush of a man's heartbeat - or the whisper of a falling hair.

by lonestarJon on Feb 4, 2009 6:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong again.

You just don't know when to keep your mouth shut, do you Saxy boy?

by oc on Feb 4, 2009 9:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Feliz development

I agree with your point, but not the method. Here is what I think will happen…he’ll blow everyone in AAA away with his fastball, and never need his secondary stuff. That is what he’s been doing in Frisco, and that doesn’t make him a better major league starter.

He needs to throw that fastball right where he wants to in the sixth inning in Arlington, and have it hit over the RF wall. That, and only that, will help him develop his secondary stuff.

by Oddibee on Feb 4, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That, and only that. Huh?

You, Josey and red shoe ranger need to hook up and over throw the Rangers front office sans the Great Nolan Ryan.

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

low blow

Awww… did I deserve to get lumped in with Josey? I don’t agree with a thing he says.

Sorry if the “that and only that” sounded harsh and uncompromising. I just think most kids in Feliz’ situation, who’ve been told how great their fastball is, think they can just blow people away with the heat and survive. None of us think he can survive with a plus plus fastball and poor secondary stuff.

I acknowledge there are other ways to accomplish making him a good ML pitcher, and that my opinion is not always right. So take it back!!!! ;-)

by Oddibee on Feb 4, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just kidding

It just sounded like Josey talking for a moment. Carry on.

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You big meanie!

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Feb 4, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a board bully today!

Man I really need to get working and be a little productive today.

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I will work hard

to make sure that never happens again….

by Oddibee on Feb 4, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's a thought...

Don’t let him rely on his FB – make him throw more secondary stuff in AAA. Last time I checked, the manager and the catcher DO have a great deal of input into what pitch is thrown.

Cool side effect – if he keeps shaking off the catcher and tries to always “announce his presence with authority”, just tip off the hitters – it worked in the movie, right??

by bking on Feb 4, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Feliz...

was the one who was being penalized by someone (his catcher, maybe?) for every fastball he threw.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Feb 4, 2009 2:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I remember

Hunter being penalized by Diamond

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Feb 4, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

heres the problem

if you have him “focus” on his offspeed and he gets killed at AA/AAA how is that a good thing?

why NOT earl weaver him?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Feb 4, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Because he is gettng experience

with his offspeed and breaking pitches. It doesn’t matter if he gets killed when he throws those pitches. The important thing is for him to be working on those pitches and getting them to where he can start getting ML hitters out with more than just his fastball.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Feb 4, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

so don't take away the fastball...

just make him change it up – one inning he can open with a fastball, but can’t throw it again in the same count. another inning he has to open with something other than the fastball. and in another, he can rotate fastball with secondary, back and forth.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Feb 4, 2009 5:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't suggest never throwing a fastball

What you are suggesting is definitely one way they can go with it. I really don’t know enough about developing pitchers to say that Feliz should throw x amount of fastballs or on what count he can throw a fastball. I just think that he needs to start throwing a lot more change-ups and sliders than he has in the past regardless of what the results on the field are.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Feb 4, 2009 6:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

but it does matter

to his psyche

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Feb 4, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Feliz doesn't seem to be that weak minded

Where he’ll let something like that get to him and negatively effect his work from then on. I’m sure it will piss him off, but I believe he is much more likely to work harder and get great results from those pitches in the future as opposed to falling on his face and crumbling under pressure Mendoza-style.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Feb 4, 2009 6:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Aki

What’s his status? What are the chances that we may see him back at Arlington at some point?

"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley

by trza on Feb 4, 2009 12:14 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Derrick Turnbow

His peripherals may not be as bad as his numbers, but he is awful to watch when he is walking guys. It’s the kind of performance that doesn’t look bad on paper, but drives managers crazy. Turnbow is a walk two guys, strike out two guys, give up a run pitcher.

Where is Mick Kelleher when we need him?

by 3744nsheffield on Feb 4, 2009 12:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

"walk two guys, strike out two guys, give up a run pitcher"

sounds like Nippert

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Feb 4, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

or CoCo Cordero

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Feb 4, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

take out the "strike out two guys"

and include Jamey Wright.

(Wife) "So what do you want to watch on the T.V.? UFC or porn?"
(Husband) "Hmm... well, porn, I guess."

by mtex on Feb 4, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

john wettland

walk the bases loaded, strike the next 3 batters out on 10 pitches

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Feb 4, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He was the best at that

Sure made you asshole pucker when he came in.

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Joaquin Benoit

Strikeout the 1st two, walk the 3rd, game tying homer to the 4th.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Feb 4, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Rick Vaughn

Man that guy was wild. He couldn’t see Nolan Ryan so they got him those sweet glasses. Nolan has been helping young pitchers for years!

"Well-well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?"-Tom Smykowski Office Space.

by Section 339 on Feb 4, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yost

From everything that I read, Yost was terrible at bullpen management. Is it possible that his poor usage patterns would negatively affect Turnbow?

by Excel Hearts Choi on Feb 4, 2009 7:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And thats supposed to be better here how?

Bulpen management isn’t exactly Wash’s forte

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Feb 4, 2009 8:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure why you would consider Rupe a lock

Connor may have loved his “stuff” but his command sucks. He pitched 4 months of bad ball, 1 excellent month, and one above ave month with a good era/bad peripherals. The guy drives me crazy. People seem to forget that Feldman’s role in the past was as a MR/LR guy and if he goes to the bullpen I expect him to take Rupe’s spot and Nippert to fill the LR/spot-starter role. I too would like to see Madrigal develop an out pitch in AAA this year and think he ends up there unless he shows progress on that in ST. Fan Graphs shows that he broke out a split-finger pitch last year (10%) so if he makes enough progress on it maybe he sticks in lieu of Eyre (which is likely as there is a good chance Eyre slips through waivers and can be kept at AAA). Lastly I think Turnbow sticks as well.

by Goyogringo on Feb 4, 2009 1:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

agreed on Rupe

I haven’t seen anything out of him that makes me think he is part of the solution.

"drawing walks is an overrated trait in my eyes."
"i do believe we could have 4 30 start pitchers in the rotation."
-- both these genius remarks brought to you by our resident guru, bigsteve

by tricer on Feb 4, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's a lock because...

…for whatever reason, the organization is high on him.

by Adam J. Morris on Feb 4, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Rupe still has an option left though, right?

Might he not start the season in AAA to allow the Rangers to get a look at Nippert or Turnbow – which might allow them to save his arm a bit for later in the year?

Yeah. Spies. They're little guys with beady eyes and long fingernails. They plant bugs that can pick up the hush of a man's heartbeat - or the whisper of a falling hair.

by lonestarJon on Feb 4, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

iiwii

I would hate for someone to get sent down to the minors simply because the Rangers want more time with Nippert. Especially if they out pitch him in ST. Nippert just is not a very good ML pitcher and the Rangers would be better off to jettison him as soon as they find a high upside pitcher to give his innings to. I don’t know if that is Rupe but it could be Diamond.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Feb 4, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I still think Nippy has something, myself

But another thing to keep in mind: Fx2 started the season in AAA last year, and we all know where he wound up by the end of the season. So I really don’t think it’ll hurt anything to start Rupe there – if Nippert (or Turnbow) continues to suck, it shouldn’t take that long to figure it out. And if Nippy really has figured it out, well you’ve got a good 97 MPH fastball/curveball combo in your BP.

Yeah. Spies. They're little guys with beady eyes and long fingernails. They plant bugs that can pick up the hush of a man's heartbeat - or the whisper of a falling hair.

by lonestarJon on Feb 4, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nippert?

He had his moments last year, I thought. I’m interested to see what a guy like Mike Maddux could do with him – I think he has a better chance of having an out of the blue Derrick Turnbow 2005-style season than Turnbow has of returning to that form.

Yeah. Spies. They're little guys with beady eyes and long fingernails. They plant bugs that can pick up the hush of a man's heartbeat - or the whisper of a falling hair.

by lonestarJon on Feb 4, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's one of the few good tihng about this year's bullpen

We have enough nice options to where we’re bound to hit on at least a couple of them. The only problem is that the Rangers may find that talent in June/July instead of April/May.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Feb 4, 2009 4:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

everybody has their own opinion of most of our bullpen options.

and that’s the point – any one of them could explode with a fantastic 2009, give a mediocre performance or completely hit the wall. Francisco seems stable, but from there, what do we have? I have my faith in CJ when healthy and others don’t; Guardado is getting up there in age and can’t be counted on in the long term, but has been pretty reliable; Turnbow has “it” but doesn’t exactly harness “it” all the time; Nippert flat out looks like he should have “it” but hasn’t been consistent; Rupe needs less innings and early success; Madrigal has some crazy stuff but hasn’t proven much in his limited exposure; and I’ll be flat-out honest and say I don’t have a CLUE what Eyre brings to the team. You don’t just jettison an arm like Nippert. He could turn the corner…and like we saw with Galarraga, and to some degree Tejeda, and possibly will see with Littleton, it’s just not worth it.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Feb 4, 2009 5:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Great summary Walter...

I agree with your assessment across the board.
  
The one thing not on your list is all of the above simply does not matter if we do not stabilize the rotation and get 900 plus innings from the rotation. Over exposure is the fastest way to kill even the most talented of pens.

by Bigfan16 on Feb 4, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yes

but I hope that roster spots go to the players who earn them. A tie goes to the guys with no options…

by Goyogringo on Feb 4, 2009 4:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, if Rupe earns it he earns it

But he wasn’t exactly spectacular last year either.

Yeah. Spies. They're little guys with beady eyes and long fingernails. They plant bugs that can pick up the hush of a man's heartbeat - or the whisper of a falling hair.

by lonestarJon on Feb 4, 2009 4:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OT: Carlos Almanzar.

I didn’t realize until I read this year’s BA Prospect handbook that young Red Sox 3b prospect Michael Almanzar was Carlos’ son. That makes me feel old as poop.

Sorry for the randomness, but seeing AJM’s Carlos Almanzar mention made me think of it.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith

by thedirkatron on Feb 4, 2009 2:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Wow

hadn’t realized that either. I’m older than you, so I guess I’m older than poop. I’m a poop fossil.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Feb 4, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Born in '73.

He must’ve hated condoms as a teenager.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith

by thedirkatron on Feb 4, 2009 2:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

at least he’s not flipping burgers at 35, complaining that the minimum wage isn’t enough to support a family, like a lot of teen parents.

by Inkara1 on Feb 4, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if his son has

12 fingers and 12 toes like his old man does. Along those lines I wonder how much more a glove cost with an extra finger build in.

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Never mind

I was thinking of Alfonseca

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Antonio doesn't throw chairs.

(Wife) "So what do you want to watch on the T.V.? UFC or porn?"
(Husband) "Hmm... well, porn, I guess."

by mtex on Feb 4, 2009 2:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

neither does carlos

"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."

by ab03 on Feb 4, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Was it just frankie that threw them?

Carlos just does drugs?

(Wife) "So what do you want to watch on the T.V.? UFC or porn?"
(Husband) "Hmm... well, porn, I guess."

by mtex on Feb 4, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and womanizes, apparently

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Feb 4, 2009 5:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Allow me to vent a little bit

Minimum wage is NOT SUPPOSED to be able to support a family. Minimum wage is what you pay pimply-faced teenagers bagging groceries or bussing tables in their first jobs. People in their mid-30s should be making more than minimum… even places like KFC pay above minimum wage for, say, shift managers, etc. So when the government, which most definitely knows all, decides it’s time to feel good by boosting the minimum wage, all it does is screw over people like me. I make a few dollars over minimum wage, but have been at the same pay since 2005. The minimum wage has gone up twice since then, and the cost of goods and services has gone up to cover the difference, but I have not gotten any sort of pay raise. That means that, in effect, I’ve taken two pay cuts, because I make the same number of dollars as in 2005, but each dollar I make does not go as far.

by Inkara1 on Feb 4, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Inkara

You need to ask for a raise or find a new job if that is the case.

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I got turned down for a raise and it took them a month to even tell me that.

Also, I work in the newspaper industry, and as more papers lay off their newsrooms, I’ve decided that right now, I’m probably lucky to be employed at all.

by Inkara1 on Feb 4, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bummer

That sucks

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 4:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's why I live in a 1981-model "mobile home" now.

It’s cheap, although my space rent of $400, on top of the mortgage, sure does take a bite out of the whole “affordable housing” thing. So you see a trailer for sale for, say, $49,900, think, “Hey, the payments would be cheap!” and then find out the park it’s in charges $500 a month without even any amenities at all other than a concrete slab to put the house on.

by Inkara1 on Feb 4, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Man I feel for ya

Do you live here in Texas. If so at least you don’t pay state taxes.

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

California

Income taxes (and we’ll be getting IOUs on our refunds this year) and the sales tax in my county is 7.25 percent, which is tied for the lowest in the state.

by Inkara1 on Feb 4, 2009 5:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hmmm

People in their mid-30’s should not be making minimum wage but should be making a few dollars over minimum wage?

Also, I’m not sure how much the cost of goods has gone up because of minimum wage and not just other inflation factors.

But I don’t really have an opinion on minimum wage other than the fact that I do feel bad for people who have to live on it.

"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."

by ab03 on Feb 4, 2009 4:04 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Who likes condoms?

I mean, it’s great not having vd or a kid, but…

Free Frank Catalanotto

by egriffey on Feb 4, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

goodness...

what is that avatar?

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Feb 4, 2009 5:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

this

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Feb 4, 2009 6:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Um doesn't matter

As long as those two are involved.

Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!

by boomer1 on Feb 4, 2009 7:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Heh...

I never minded condoms.

Girls thought I was a stud because I could last all night with one of those warrior balloons on, I couldn’t feel a damn thing. Now lasting forever without a condom on, that’s the trick!

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Feb 4, 2009 6:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

there is a Reds prospect with last name of Francisco

that I thought was the spittin image of our Frankie the first time I saw his pic.

Here, look sorta familiar?

"drawing walks is an overrated trait in my eyes."
"i do believe we could have 4 30 start pitchers in the rotation."
-- both these genius remarks brought to you by our resident guru, bigsteve

by tricer on Feb 4, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

Frankie was like 8yo when he was born. But you never know. :)

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Feb 4, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dominican birthdates are at times negotiable

They’re probably cousins or something, but they do have a striking resemblance don’t they?

"drawing walks is an overrated trait in my eyes."
"i do believe we could have 4 30 start pitchers in the rotation."
-- both these genius remarks brought to you by our resident guru, bigsteve

by tricer on Feb 4, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Closer to Juan Dominguez

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Feb 4, 2009 6:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They're both minorities.

Come on, BG.

You’re not one of those “I can tell ’em apart” fancy boys, are you?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

I hate Michael Young.

"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith

by thedirkatron on Feb 4, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

April bullpen

By my count, the Rangers will only need a 5th starter twice in April. Maybe they go with 4 starters and 8 relievers in April – they could gave Nippert two spot starts (seems like they should try to use him as much as possible early on to make a more informed decision about him). Harrison could start the season in AAA, pitching on a regular rotation until May.

"A good start would be not giving up 900 runs again." -Jon Daniels

by Randy Richardson on Feb 4, 2009 2:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather keep the only lefty in our rotation

and the one with the most continued improvement as the season went on stay in our rotation to start the year.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Feb 4, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OT: Edinson Volquez

lookey here.

anybody here speak spanish well enough to interpret any of this?

"drawing walks is an overrated trait in my eyes."
"i do believe we could have 4 30 start pitchers in the rotation."
-- both these genius remarks brought to you by our resident guru, bigsteve

by tricer on Feb 4, 2009 3:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think it's kind of funny

that if this is some amateur video (a la Carmelo) then he’s in trouble

but if this is a music video, he’s probably ok.

"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."

by ab03 on Feb 4, 2009 3:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I liked one of the comments on there
Well, that settles it . . . the Rangers officially got the better end of the Hamilton/Volquez trade. Questions on character were speculated and they probably thought it was just a matter of time before he Plaxico’s himself.

Woohoo!!! We won the trade.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Feb 4, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

wow.

glad we got rid of that time bomb.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Feb 4, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

UPDATE #2: The Reds confirm my initial hunch and say it was part of a professional video shoot. Still not sure why they’d want one of their stars featured with a firearm, though.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Feb 4, 2009 5:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's saying

A bunch of bullshit. I understood everything, but I think that even if you didn’t understand one word, the cadence of what he’s saying should convey the meaning pretty well.

Spanish ebonics, really. I think the translations given on the page are pretty accurate.

by brettgardner on Feb 4, 2009 6:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"Spanish ebonics"...

pretty much.

I speak fairly decent Spanish and I could barely make out half the shit they were saying.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Feb 4, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It was worth a shot.

You just don't know when to keep your mouth shut, do you Saxy boy?

by oc on Feb 4, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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