Billy Beane luvs speedy 2Bs

by Adam J. Morris on Feb 4, 2009 9:27 PM CST Comment 25 comments

So, yeah...remember when Jon Daniels seemed to be collecting catchers?

Billy Beane seems to be doing the same thing with speedy second basemen.

He traded Matt Murton for Corey Wimberly today (and by the way...anyone still want to trade Marlon Byrd for Murton straight up?). Wimberly's stats can be found here. Zero power, draws a few walks, but his calling card is that he's stolen 181 bases in 354 career games as a pro.

The Rich Harden deal, which brought Murton to Oakland in the first place, also brought to Oakland second baseman Eric Patterson. He's a second baseman (and outfielder) who doesn't really walk much, and who has a little power, with a couple of 40+ steal seasons in the lower minors and 29 steals against 3 CSs between AAA and the majors in 2008.

The A's first round draft pick this past year -- and a guy they supposedly targeted in the draft -- was Jemile Weeks, a speedy, athletic college second baseman who is terrific on the basepaths.

And the Joe Blanton trade brought to Oakland Adrian Cardenas, a second baseman who doesn't necessarily have the speed or athleticism of the other guys I've listed, but who is nonetheless considered a quality basestealer.

It makes you wonder...is this coincidence?

I've said before that defense is the new OBP, and every around the league seems to be jumping on that bandwagon...is speed now the new defense?

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OT: Clemson is up 21 on Duke.

And That Happened: Sports with a Hint of Sarcasm

by philkid3 on Feb 4, 2009 9:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Moneyball is now speedball?

JD: Adamant about 78 wins in 2009. Go Rangers!

by rooster on Feb 4, 2009 9:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Well, speed makes a good companion to OBP...

So it would seem logical that Mr. OBP himself would luv him some speedy, athletic types with good OBP’s who can set the table.

Yeah. Spies. They're little guys with beady eyes and long fingernails. They plant bugs that can pick up the hush of a man's heartbeat - or the whisper of a falling hair.

by lonestarJon on Feb 4, 2009 9:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

"Is speed now the new defense?"

Not if that speed hits like Joey Gathright.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Feb 4, 2009 9:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that would make jumping cars the new speed.

Yeah. Spies. They're little guys with beady eyes and long fingernails. They plant bugs that can pick up the hush of a man's heartbeat - or the whisper of a falling hair.

by lonestarJon on Feb 4, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

A couple dudes on another message board told me the Rays aren't Moneyball because they steal bases and play defense.

I facepalmed so hard it hurt.

And That Happened: Sports with a Hint of Sarcasm

by philkid3 on Feb 4, 2009 10:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

There is no question that he has identified

something in the second base position that he wants. I don’t think that it has anything to do with speed specifically, though, it is certainly something that he’s willing to take as part of the package. I think it’s about second basemen in general somehow. Even if this weren’t Beane, a guy who bloggers suspect is setting a new trend with virtually every move he makes, I would be very curious what his strategy is. When Daniels aimed to get a catcher in every deal, it was obvious what he was trying to do. Beane is probably just doing the same thing, but that he’s doing it with second base makes it a little extra interesting.

Also, pretty soon, we’ll have cycled through all of the primary baseball skills. I think we’re about to run out of “the new__”.

by Brett Perryman on Feb 4, 2009 10:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Good Face: The new market inefficiency

Baseball Time in Arlington

by Joey Matschulat on Feb 4, 2009 10:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The new WAR stat seems a little fishy to me.

You just don't know when to keep your mouth shut, do you Saxy boy?

by oc on Feb 4, 2009 10:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The FanGraphs one?

And That Happened: Sports with a Hint of Sarcasm

by philkid3 on Feb 4, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's gotta be batting average

Then we’ve come full circle. Or game winning RBIs.

"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley

by trza on Feb 4, 2009 10:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Beane did spend time with the '87 WS Champ Twins.

He saw what Steve Lombardozzi brings to a ballclub firsthand.

by scoop16 on Feb 4, 2009 10:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I predict batting average to be the new speed.

"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley

by trza on Feb 4, 2009 10:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Well, the ability to turn a single into a double by stealing a base

could be considered as a new metric called effective SLG. In other words, SLG for these speedy guys might be a bit low because a stolen base is not considered in the total bases used to calculate SLG.

Maybe, it’s just that Beane hearts a well executed bunt single.

JD: Adamant about 78 wins in 2009. Go Rangers!

by rooster on Feb 4, 2009 11:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Will Beane bring back Herb Washington?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/washihe01.shtml

I think the Rangers have a secondbaseman they could trade to Oakland. How about Vallejo for Anderson? :)

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Feb 4, 2009 11:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

It's a shame

Orlando Hudson is aged. If he were only 23, he’d be the icing on that cake.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Feb 5, 2009 1:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Base Running!

>>>is speed now the new defense?<<<

Speed isn’t and won’t be the new OBP or defense as speed is just a physical componenet and doesn’t necessarily translate to value. OBP and defense are valueable themselves.

So no, speed will not be the new defense. You might be jumping around the next OBP/defense but not quite hitting it, base running.

One of your last statements is indicative of what I’m saying:

>>>…Adrian Cardenas, a second baseman who doesn’t necessarily have the speed or athleticism of the other guys I’ve listed, but who is nonetheless considered a quality basestealer.<<<

I suspect Beane has recognized that baserunning is undervalued and can be had for cheap and at premium defensive positions, as well.

It’s base running.

by gr7070 on Feb 5, 2009 9:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

To reinforce something

I think it’s important to reinforce why speed can’t be the next X. Speed is just a physical component. It doesn’t provide anything.

It’s akin to drafting someone who’s muscular or drafting people who have wide hips. Sure, speed might better translate measured value, like defensive prowess or basestealing than some other characteristic, but speed in and of itself is rather meaningless. It has to translate to something valuable.

Having the natural mental and physical ability that translates to good baserunning is what Beane might be doing. However, that’s not always speed as you point out; and the mental ability, innately possing whatever analytical skills to assess baseball situations on the paths are measured like speed are. But the results of a combination of speed and mental prowess are valued by analyzing base running.

by gr7070 on Feb 5, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

aren't

…aren’t measured like speed…"

by gr7070 on Feb 5, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I saw Wimberly in Tulsa, and the stats don't lie.

The guy can’t hit for anything, but the 25% of the time or so that he does get on base, he’s pretty much at third already. He’s got silly speed.

My 2009 New Years Resolution: Quit feeding the trolls.

by ghtd36 on Feb 5, 2009 9:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

he actually can hit

great bunter, contact hitter, doesnt k much

just no power and has some defensive issues which had the rockies try him out all over the OF and infield

that versatility and speed probably gives him a shot as a utility type, a poor man’s figgens at best

by Asfan4ever723 on Feb 5, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

lol

does everything beane does involve some analysis or underlying factor he’s trying to exploit. in the big picture this is likely a very minor trade. if anything beane probably didnt even make this trade, it was asst gm david forst who handles minor league transactions, trades, etc in recent yrs. though it is weird that A’s are stockpiling 2b and have NOTHING at SS. this time last yr A’s had impending fa ellis and no minor league depth at the position. now they signed ellis for 2 yrs plus have pennington, petit, patterson, wimberly, cardenas ( who they are trying out at SS, may or may not work out), weeks, chen, etc. looks like some trade bait to me.

by Asfan4ever723 on Feb 5, 2009 12:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs