Daniels confirms: Rangers sign Jones
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 8, 2009 12:50 PM CST
Email
PrintJeff Wilson says Jon Daniels has confirmed the New York Post story reporting that the Rangers will announce the signing of Andruw Jones to a minor league deal this week.
Jones can opt out of his deal on March 20, presumably if he isn't on the 40 man roster at that point.
I don't get this move. It tells me that the Rangers don't believe that Nelson Cruz or Brandon Boggs are major league caliber outfielders. If they did, there's no place for Jones on this team.
I know it will be suggested that adding Jones means that the Rangers can move Marlon Byrd, but they could do that anyway. I'd be perfectly on board with going with a Murphy/Boggs platoon in left field, Hamilton in center, and Cruz in right. That Murphy/Boggs combination could give you above average offense and defense in left from a couple of guys who will be making the league minimum for a couple more years.
That option, though, appears to be getting pushed by the wayside for the opportunity to bring in another "reclamation project," another guy in his 30s who isn't part of the future of this team, but which the rebuilding Rangers appear to think can be part of the present.
I don't get it. With Byrd, Murphy, Hamilton and Cruz all here, plus Blalock at DH, there's no room for Jones to get any playing time even if he looks okay this spring. Keeping Jones on the 25 man roster to start the season only makes sense if you are going to play him regularly, and it seems likely his playing time would come at the expense of Cruz, who, after his strong finish to 2008, seemed to be in position to be the starting right fielder, but who now appears to be back in limbo.
I just don't see what the point of this move is. It makes me wonder if the organization isn't thinking that maybe -- just maybe -- this team can be a contender, and figures that Jones might be able to win them a couple of more games than they could win with Murphy or Cruz or Boggs or Julio Borbon.
I can't see that being real likely, though.
And for those who ask why I like signing Jason Jennings and Brendan Donnelly, but not Jones...
Well, the answer is that the Rangers can use pitching depth, particularly with the loss of Eric Hurley and Joaquin Benoit for the season, but aren't lacking for outfield depth. Given the roster and the likelihood of injury, Jennings and Donnelly and Derrick Turnbow and the like are a lot more likely to be needed, and in a position to contribute meaningfully, than Jones would.
So yeah, I don't particularly like this move. I fear it will turn into another Sammy Sosa situation, where a well-past-his-prime reclamation project shows enough in spring training to stick and ends up starting for the bulk of the season, even though he's not really a good player and even though there are players in-house the Rangers should be evaluating instead.
286 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I have to hope
that when they met with him they were impressed with his improved condition, health, and attitude. But this gets to one thing I do not like about Daniels – I think he tries too hard to catch lightning in a bottle sometimes. Rather than a lightning strike, this kind of deal too often has simply led to the Rangers being burned in the past. And as Adam said, pitching depth is needed right now, outfield depth is not. I’d rather the team see what it has in Cruz, Murphy, Boggs, and even Golson before giving OF time to a reclamation project.
Don’t vainly chase contention by signing this type of guy, stay the course.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
vainly chase contention?
not particularly apt
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
I really
you are misinterepting this move. JD has done a great job creating value by signing these types of players. Very little sunk cost to either get a player who’s capable of playing well above LG Avg and also capable of getting a return come trade deadline if we arent in contention.
Im always a fan of these types of moves as long as we dont abuse them to the point were we get hung up on a player who obviously cant make it, and i think thats really up to the major league scouts, manager and Rudy J.
I have faith that Rudy can fix him, if he’s healthy and in shape of course.
Chris (NJ): I am personally offended at how you ranked a prospect from my favorite team, even though I do not know said prospect, nor have I ever seen him play. In my opinion you only have your job because, like your employers, you have an unholy bias towards my favorite team’s rival. Also, you’re short.
Keith Law: You’re right. I am short.
He won't be a type B
after the season he had last season
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I dunno
See how close Bradley was to type A and he played only 50 games or so in 07? I’m just saying if Jones dings 30-40, he could slip into Type B , right?
Bradley was injured which doesn't affect you
They prorate the numbers if you are injured. Also Bradley was a type B not A.
Jones season was so bad theres no way he makes it to type B status
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
well then jones was injured as well
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Bradley and Jones
In 2007 Bradley had the same amount of at bats as Jones had in 2008. So lets compare their numbers.
Jones Bradley
.158 BA .306
.256 OBP .402
.249 SLG .545
34 OPS+ 114
3 HR 13
14 RBI 37
Jones isn’t going to do well enough to get to type B
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
That would be my point, too
Bradley was out of the lineup a lot, but when he did play he was very good. Jones sucked when he played.
Except that
We don’t know how Elias concocts its formulas so that they derive their “valuation.”
People were saying the same thing about how Bradley was “definitely” going to be a Type A, and lo and behold, he’s a Type B.
One thing I’m 99.99% sure of, is that Elias does NOT take into account OPS+.
I’m also skeptical that they take into account OBP and SLG.
The bad BA will drag Jones down, but it doesn’t completely eliminate him from Type B status.
R
Bradley
Alot of people were “sure” Bradley was going to be a ype A based on how he was playing. Its not like people were way off on that. He was only a couple people off being a type A and he missed a handful of games. Who knows how that affected him in the end.
You are right though, nobody does know how they calculate a players value. But no matter how they do it we do know its only based on the previous 2 years which would be 2008 and 2009. 2008 was beyond horrible for Jones. I honestly don’t see any way barring an MVP-esque season that he ends up as a type B.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
You're right
it is likely going to have to be a darn good season for Jones to be a Type B.
It’s not out of the realm of likely probability, though.
Even in his crappy 2007, Jones did hit 26 HRs and 94 RBIs. That would probably get him close to Type B. The BA is definitely an issue, though.
R
2007 won't matter though
Your type is based on the previous 2 seasons. So for Jones it would be 2008 and 2009.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
x
What reclamation projects by Jon Daniels do you feel were successful? Sosa? Jennings? Bruce Chen? Who?
Gagne? Lofton? Bradley?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Byrd?
"It doesn't look like he's trying. It kinda pisses me off," "He could throw 110 if he tried. The way it explodes out of his hand is really something special." ~ B-Mac on Feliz.
x
Bradley would have been successful wherever he went,and the Rangers are not getting much from his leaving. I guess he did get something for Gagne and Lofton. In that sense, maybe those were successful reclamation projects.
Bradley
Who knows how successful he would have been. I believe Ron Washington played a huge role in keeping Bradley in check. And we are getting a 2nd round pick for him so I wouldn’t say thats “not much”.
I just like how you tried to cherry pick the worst reclamation projects without even mentioning the good ones hoping people would just forget they ever happened.
And are you seriously complaining about Bruce Chen?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
not really complaing about chen, etc
But more often then not, they fail. Maybe, some of the reclamation projects are OK to try, but not at the expense of playing younger players. Some of these projects (Sosa) are PR driven i think.
What does "Bradley would have been successful wherever he went" have to do with whether a reclamation project worked/didn't work?
And we got a ridiculously good season out of him.
Saying that doesn’t count is asinine.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
I hate Michael Young.
"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith
No, it's useless
if a player comes here and puts up an awesome offensive season for a very reasonable contract, just useless. Did the Rangers make the playoffs? Did they receive 37 draft picks when he left? Did they trade him for Evan Longoria, Tim Lincecum and Buchholz? No. Useless.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
not like any of the ones you named really hurt
except sosa (maybe)
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Because Sosa cost us
the great Jason Botts. I keep forgetting that massive loss to the program. If only they would have given him 10,000 major league at bats to get acclimated.
Get off my lawn.
adam said sosa cost us gallaraga
sosa actually cost us the world series but i don’t think adam wanted to stretch it that far
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Actually, as AJM pointed out to me
Sosa ultimately cost us Armando Galarraga
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
I think that's a pretty big stretch.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Not completely
But it sure didn’t help that situation to be carrying Botts on the roster only to give him a few ABs and then cut him. Those ABs could have happened in 2007 and then you have some more roster flexibility to work with.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Remember when you used to make Jack Cust jokes and called me a dolt for suggesting Cust would hit if only someone would give him a chance?
I’m not going to sit here and deny that my boy Botts didn’t waste the chances he was given, but I’m convinced we should’ve given him more of an extended shot to see if he could make it work.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
I hate Michael Young.
"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith
Reclamation projects
JD is just one of those poker players who likes to limp in with 5-6 suited. As long as you know to fold them if nothing hits, then it doesn’t really ever hurt you. The problem is when you stay in the hand without really having anything.
Brandon Boggs isn't above average in anything
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
Really?
I think he’s above average defensively as a COF, and above average offensively against LHPs.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 8, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
He was one of the top LF last year according to +/-
Even with significantly less playing time than some of the other guys on that list.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
can you list the stats?
or are you the one who ended their sub to that site? lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
You can find the top guys for free
at the Fielding Bible site.
philkid was the one who had the Bill James subscription and ended it.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
impressive
other thoughts from the list:
ryan braun at +9? – wow
carlos gomez is a beast in CF
jeter is almost 30 runs worse over the last 3 years than hanley ramirez – 28 runs worse
remind me why they dont do catchers?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
I'm not sure how you'd evaluate catchers via +/-.
They’re not involved in enough plays of that type to actually make much of a difference in evaluation. It would like, what, judging balls thrown to them when covering the plate and pop flies?
Also, remember it’s not runs, it’s plays. You can get a decent run estemation by multiplying it by .8, though.
oops on the plays
i thought i read an article one time by someone from their site as to why they dont do catchers (my google-fu failed me though) and thought someone might remember
thx
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Correction.
It tells me that the Rangers don’t believe thatNelson Cruz orBrandon Boggs are major league caliber outfielders.
And I seriously doubt that they would sign Jones because they believe they have an outside shot at contention. I think it’s pretty simplisitic, if Jones bounces back he’s a better alternative than Boggs/Murphy/Byrd. If he doesn’t, he’s cut and you still have Boggs/Murphy/Byrd to split time. I don’t think it will affect Cruz unless of course he sucks.
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
What do you expect from Jones bouncing back?
People think that if he is healthy and in shape, he’ll be able to put up a season like he did in 2006 when he was 29 and in his prime. He’s 32 this season and even if he was healthy these past couple of years, he still would have seen a decline in his performance. So if Jones is back to form, I don’t see him putting up an OPS+ much higher than 110 and I think that is something we can already get from Boggs/Murphy/Byrd.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
32
is still quite the prime for many a hitter
Chris (NJ): I am personally offended at how you ranked a prospect from my favorite team, even though I do not know said prospect, nor have I ever seen him play. In my opinion you only have your job because, like your employers, you have an unholy bias towards my favorite team’s rival. Also, you’re short.
Keith Law: You’re right. I am short.
Like who?
31 might be pushing it, but for the vast majority of players who haven’t just started taking steroids, they are going to see their peak season at 29 or 30 and will start declining from then. And when Jones knees are so bad that he puts up a 34 OPS+ in 238 PAs (since that seems to be the more accepted reasoning on why he’s been so terrible), I don’t see why you would even consider the possibility that he can still be in his prime.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
he was terrible b/c he was as fat as a xmas turkey last season.
i remember a dodger team official saying that when he took his 1st PA in ST last season, people didnt think he was really Jones b/c he was so fat and out of shape that they thought it must have been some mistake.
i have no reason to believe he’s in any better shape now than he has been the last couple seasons and he screams STEROIDS but what the hell do i know?
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
considering that
his CAREER OPS+ is 111 i dont think its too much to ask for 110.
and thats with ops+ of 34 and 84 the last 2 years
its def possible for him to have a 110 ops+ i think
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
As I said
Even assuming he can put up a 110 OPS+, we can get that same type of production from Murphy/Boggs in LF, Hamilton in CF, and Cruz in RF with Byrd playing some CF and RF. If production is all we care about, there are internal options of making that happen.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Boggs will be in AAA
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Boggs & K's
I don’t mind big strikeouts if they’re accompanied by big power and walks. But will Boggs bring that? He struck out a TON in winterball. Really question his contact rate in the big leagues.
As you should.
Plenty of reason to question him. And also plenty of reasons to question if he can be better. Like having the highest xBABIP in baseball last season.
Hence, playing time would be a good thing.
I guess some people owe heyman an apology
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
No
he’s still Boras’ tool. A broken watch is right twice a day. No, not the digital kind.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Who broke the story that he signed a minor league deal here?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
heyman's original story
was not that the Rangers were interested in Jones, it was that Jones could end up going to the Rangers. He was venturing a guess and it turned out to be right. Fodder for both sides I guess – could just say Heyman got lucky.
Still, it seems as though the Rangers were indeed looking for an OF bat and were trying to trade Young so I’m not sure how mad at Heyman you can get. His Texas sources seem true, even if his only purpose in reporting it was to help out Boras clients
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
The
rational behind this is so simple that it just walks right under the nose of lawyers…
"If you have a problem with me, you're probably a doucher."
i think...
…this goes in with the whole gagne/lofton/guardado logic for daniels. get someone with some major league record, show they still have something and then spin them off for the best offer. trouble is, unlike the aforementioned three, we have enough OF options right now he really is stealing someone elses time and i agree completely that this whole project could wind up much more like sammy sosa than gagne…
the only guy really hurt in this whole thing would be nelson cruz and if jones doesn’t look good in the spring, no harm no foul let him go and lets move on…
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
This isn't the same as those
Lofton was signed when our OF was Cat and Cruz coming off 130 underwhelming ABs. Gagne and Guaradado were both signed to be a part of the bullpen where you can almost always find a few openings. Signing Jones now is the same as if this team wanted to bring Pudge in on an NRI with Salty and Teagarden both staying here.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
so...
apparently you just wanted to not read the part where i said…
trouble is, unlike the aforementioned three, we have enough OF options right now. he really is stealing someone elses time and i agree completely that this whole project could wind up much more like sammy sosa than gagne…
thanks though.
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
heh
Sorry, been on a Jones tirade these past 24 hours. I missed that completely.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
you're contributing so much...
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
by ab03 on Feb 8, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you.
You just don't know when to keep your mouth shut, do you Saxy boy?
by oc on Feb 8, 2009 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
if jones doesn’t look good in the spring, no harm no foul let him go and lets move on…
You have a whole lot more faith than I do.
again
if you think like that, then that’s just stupid. Apparently they cant’ sign any NRI’s because they are too stupid to figure out who is good and who isn’t
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
why?
because of sosa? is that your only proof? then you are getting mad at the wrong thing.
if you take this to the natural conclusion then the Rangers shouldn’t be allowed to make any low risk high reward signings?
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
When did I get mad?
I wasn’t aware of being mad. I also wasn’t aware of saying the Rangers shouldn’t give any an NRI, I have just expressed a lack of enthusiasm and a bit of pessimistic concern towards this one.
Also, I have no proof. What proof do you have?
I think you’re applying a whole lot of arguments to me I haven’t yet made. . .
I have to agree
If you’re going to let Andrus push a vet off his regular position so you can evaluate him and let him get his rookie season out of the way for 2010, why wouldn’t you be willing to do the same thing in the outfield.
I will say this though. If he becomes the Andrew Jones he was in 2005 and before, this could be an enormous coo for the Rangers.
Obviously
Everyone agrees Andrus has more of a future, or at least more potential, than Brandon Boggs.
+1
if boggs is simply not a starting caliber OF for a team who wants to be in the playoffs/in the hunt for the playoffs
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
+1
If Boggs were a can’t miss or ranked in BA’s top 50 he would be getting the chance Andrus is getting.
Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!
well
i think if they thought even a little bit more highly of boggs, they wouldnt’ be doing this. but it just seems like they don’t for whatever reason. otherwise, he would have gotten more playing time then he did.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
which is also to say
i don’t necessarily agree with their assessment of boggs. even with my assessment, I still think I do this because I’m probably more optimistic than I should be on Jones.
Anyway, Boggs is the only guy I see really getting hurt in this but I think he was going to have problems getting playing time anyway
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
But,
It’s not just about Boggs. You’re talking about Cruz and Murphy as well… and to a lesser extent Borbon.
And that's part of what irks me.
I still don’t have blind faith in the Rangers, and I see plenty of reasons to give Boggs plenty of chances to prove he’s not a major MLB contributor. His xBABIP was the highest in baseball last season, and his defense was awesome. I don’t want to plan our future around him, but I do want him to get plenty of opportunity to show me something.
I think that the Rangers
feel that if Jones were to bounce back to 90% of what he once was, they would have a better outfielder than anyone except Hamilton. Whats not to understand?
I don’t think the likelihood of this happening should be the determining factor. Also, if he starts off well but is not everything they want him to be, he could be spun off for a prospect(s).
This is what I don't understand
If you want to go with the best possible production, then you can have an OF that looks like this:
LF: Murphy against righties, Boggs against lefties
CF: Hamilton
RF: Cruz
Byrd gives Hamilton some time off or maybe lets him DH some days and also plays a little bit for Cruz. Boggs had an .827 OPS against lefties last year, Murphy has a career .846 OPS against righties, Byrd has posted a 113 and 123 OPS+ these past 2 years, and Cruz obviously has some monster potential and raped pitchers last year in the minors and the Majors. Given the guaranteed top notch defense all of those guys provide (except for Hamilton who’s bat more than makes up for it), 90% of Jones doesn’t give you anything better than that and might be worse. Jones has a caarer 111 OPS+/828 OPS. And if you exclude his 2005 season and want to just take 90% of his 2006 production, you’re looking at a 113 OPS+/.~804 OPS.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I wouldn't even bring Boggs up
unless someone gets hurt. Let him play in AAA every day for a while. I would put Cruz in RF, Hamilton in CF and let Byrd and Murphy platoon in LF except the days that Cruz or Hamilton needs a day off.
by CS3 on Feb 8, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
that OF isn't the best it could be defensively.
Hamilton in CF is just not a good way to keep him fresh.
Cruz/Jones/Hamilton (or whoever you want to put out in LF) is a beastly defense
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Not to mention
What if Jones shows enough in ST to take a roster spot then tanks it when the season starts it will be a waste of the 40. Which we all know trumps all.
Sheets or bust
Damn you rotator cuff damn you!
If he replaces Cats spot then thats not really a waste
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
+1
If they ate Cat’s contract to get rid of him and didn’t take away any playing time they shouldn’t for Jones, I would also be able to live with that.
what if jones
shows enough in ST to take a roster spot and then kicks a baby.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Byrd > Boggs
If you’re looking at 2009 production only
strange
That is a strange opt out date since the season starts April 6 and the 25 man roster doesn’t have to be set until then. I guess you could put him on the 40 at that time and not effect too much. Has Jones agreed to go to OKC at all?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
I'm trying to visualize
Andruw going out on the field with Josh Hamilton, Nelson Crus et al. Unless he is in far, far better condition than one would expect, he might just walk off on day one and say “never mind”.
He gets his Dodger paycheck regardless.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Feb 8, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
It had been reported that he was working out with Chipper and Brian McCann.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
bobby cox evidently wanted him back
quite badly and was trying to get the FO to bring him back
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Ever heard of pushing the youngsters?
Andruw Jones has 11 gold gloves. We haven’t had a decent pure centerfielder since Daryl Hamilton. I think Nolan is not sold on having Byrd in center while we wait for Borbon to continue to season in the minors. Too bad we have 2 RF types (J. Hamilton, Cruz), 1 LF Rusty Greer type (Murphy), a AAAA player in Byrd, and no good internal option for CF. The Rangers take no risk adding the former stud Jones to the ST competition — if he blows up (unlikely but you never know), he makes the team. If he plays like a majority of the naysayers want him to, he’ll get cut, plain and simple. The young pups need to know they can’t lollygag in ST if they want to grab a spot on the 25-man roster. If Jones performs, then we would have the ability to spin off one of the younger OF (see: Byrd) for a B-rate prospect and just cut Catalanatto. I agree that the odd man out in this situation would be Cruz — but if his bat stays hot from last year, he’ll at least get some DH at-bats.
Byrds a little more than a AAAA player
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
You’re thinking when he was a sure-fire prospect on the Phillies
by HelloWinColumn on Feb 8, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
No
Im basing it on his last two years here in Texas. Jason Botts was a AAAA player. Marlon Byrd is a legit major leaguer.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
No
He’s probably thinking about the last couple years when Byrd was an above average OF for us
by CS3 on Feb 8, 2009 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
Average, I’ll take. But I can see Nolan thinking the defense in CF could be improved.
by HelloWinColumn on Feb 8, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
these posts.. these terrible posts.
Scott Feldman for 2009 AL Cy Young
Scott Feldman for 2010 AL Scott Feldman
by Maximilian on Feb 8, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
Sometimes you just got to shake your head and hit “z” right by them
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I just wish Nolan posted here.
He wouldn’t tolerate this 08 Jason Jennings level posting.
Scott Feldman for 2009 AL Cy Young
Scott Feldman for 2010 AL Scott Feldman
2.5 and 3.6 WAR player the last two years.
In 454 and 462 plate appearances.
That, sir, is not exactly average.
+1
byrd isnt a bad option
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Lollygag?
Manuel: [disgusted] You guys….you lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down’ta first. [does a mocking, mincing dance] You lollygag in an’ outta the dugout. Ya know what that makes you?! Sandy!!
Alomar: Lollygaggers!
Manuel: Lollygaggers. What’s our record, Sandy?
Alomar: 86-70.
Manuel: 86-70. How’d we ever win 86.
Alomar: It’s a miracle.
Manuel: [seething] This…is a simple game. You throw the ball. You hit the ball. You catch the ball. YOU GOT IT?! Now we have got six games left in our season. Team bus leaves at 6 in the mornin’. [exits, muttering] …God-DAMN sonofabitch motherfuckin’ SHITHEADS!!
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
I was waiting for someone to make that reference. Nice work.
by HelloWinColumn on Feb 8, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
You just compared David Freaking Murphy to Rusty Freaking Greer.
Babies will punted over this transgression.
I mean: RRRRRRRRGGVSDdddmgm,ghmbmasdkvjbsdzklfvnc,.!!!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
I hate Michael Young.
"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith
For all our arguments in the other thread about Murphy. . .
. . . I’m with you on needing the Greer comparisons to stop. Greer was very good at the most important part of being a position player in Major League Baseball. Murphy is not.
That’s not very comparable.
I dont see why everyone is so high on Nelson Cruz. He goes on a hot streak every once in a while but other than that I dont think he is major league material. Even if Cruz isnt starting in the outfield (which he shouldnt be) though, this signing still doesnt make much sense to me.
Being skeptical of Cruz is perfectly understandable
I sure am. I think he deserves a chance to show it wasn’t another fluke. But I also don’t think the Rangers are going to have a long leash with him. If he gets off to a slow start I fully expect him to be DFAd and we just cut bait for good.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
What's your definition of a slow start?
If he shows that he has retained his improved eye at the plate and can get a hold of breaking pitches then I don’t see any reason to DFA him.
That wouldn't be a slow start then
Im talking if he comes in and is playing everyday and looks like the Cruz of 07 or 06 again.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Not that you’ll believe me but I watch every pitch of every Rangers home game for work, and have for years. I’ve seen plenty of him, and that’s why I’m down on Cruz. He played in 31 games at the major league level last year. He hit .330 in 115 at bats. I’m not knocking .330, but I’d like to see it over a longer period of time than a total of a month. Plenty of bad players go on hot streaks that last for a month. I’ll ignore the year in Milwaukee (’05) since he only had 5 ABs in 8 games but look at his numbers from ’06 and ’07.
’06: 41 games, 130 AB, .223
’07: 96 games, 307 AB, .235
He’s been consistently mediocre (at best) with one good month at the Major League level in 4 years.
I'm just saying
That his production from last year was outstanding and that is why everyone is so high on him.
The difference is
that his plate discipline improved substantially enough to allow his minor league #s to translate to pro ball, at least for 5 weeks. The other element that changed is that he continued this pattern with a terrific winter ball performance. That said, there is concern, as newly formed habits are more easily broken than maintained, but I would give him the first half to prove he;s not fluke before I start trading outfielders for a reclamation project who might flash one good month of spring training ball.
Disabled List...
Although I share much of Adam J. Morris’s concerns regarding the signing of Andruw Jones, I think he might be too greatly downplaying the injury risk of outfielders. In 2008, Marlon Byrd went on the 15-day disabled list on April 17th, but wasn’t activated from it until May 15th. David Murphy went on the 15-day disabled list on August 7th and didn’t play again the rest of the season.
With that said, I’m really not sure what to make of this signing. I think if it came down to seeing if Rudolpho Jaramillo can find something Jones has misplaced and that the Los Angeles Dodgers couldn’t find or giving at-bats to Frank Catalanotto, I’d pick the former.
Perhaps the decision by the Rangers to sign Jones would make a good poll question.
Blagojevich/Stevens in 2012: Hey, Nobody's Perfect
You missed one:
Andruw Rudolf Jones
Just tryin’ to help…
:)
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
I don't see your point
We have depth in case guys go down with Golson, Borbon, and Boggs all on the 40 man and playing in AAA next year.
I didn’t get into the last thread because it was too far gone by the time I read it. My feeling is this is just another CYA move by the Rangers. There is no risk right now. If god forbid someone goes down with a serious injury in spring training we have a veteran fall back option. If some team comes calling for Marlon Byrd all of a sudden then we have a veteran fallback option. If not I don’t see Jones making the team.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Hmmmm...
Seems like you do see my point after all. Suppose the Rangers are considering an outfield of Nelson Cruz in right field, Josh Hamilton in center field, and a David Murphy/Marlon Byrd platoon in left. That would put a Brandon Boggs/Julio Borbon/Greg Golson outfield in Triple-A. If one of the Cruz/Hamilton/Byrd/Murphy quartet were to get injured during Spring Training, the Rangers might prefer having the three healthy outfielders starting and use Andruw Jones as the fourth outfielder, in effect ditching the platoon.
If the Rangers felt that giving Boggs, Golson, and Borbon regular at-bats in Oklahoma was preferable to having one of them as the backup in the Majors, it might make sense to have Jones.
But like I said, I do share Adam J. Morris’s concerns in regards to the Sammy Sosa 2007 Rangers’ Experience.
Blagojevich/Stevens in 2012: Hey, Nobody's Perfect
If the Rangers wanted Boggs playing everday that badly
He would have done so last year
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Poll Question...
See recent fanposts -—>
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
What do you see from Jones though?
Personally, I think he’s done and that there’s little to no chance he comes close to becomes the player he once was. I’d think he’d be lucky if he was only as bad as he was in 2007.
And if injuries come, you already have Borbon and Golson on the 40 man roster that you can call up as injury replacements and get the same crappy bat Jones has, better defense, and at least some potential for improvement and future impact. I also mentioned this in the last thread, but I honestly would rather see this team reward organizational soldiers like Ben Harrison and Steve Murphy with some playing time or just have them up and keep them benched unless they are desperately needed. If the goal is 2010, then it really doesn’t matter who fills in when an injury happens.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
What do I see from Andruw Jones?
Most likely I see Andruw Jones taking free agency in about six weeks. I cited the fact that David Murphy and Marlon Byrd spent about 2 1/2 months on the disabled list in 2008, so it’s certainly possible that there could be injuries to the outfield or DH candidates that could make it sensible for Andruw Jones, assuming Texas finds that there is something more left in him than was seen last year, to stay on the Rangers roster.
But with the signing of Jones, there is the obvious concern that wouldn’t accompany a minor league contract to a player with a history like Nick Gorneault ; that someone with clout in the Rangers organization will watch 4-5 year old video of Jones in the next week, and then see Jones and say, “Hey, I was just watching that guy play. He was an incredible!” And after that, that person and anyone he can influence will only be able to see the remnants of a once great player, ignoring all signs of the rapid deterioration of Jones’s skills.
Blagojevich/Stevens in 2012: Hey, Nobody's Perfect
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by octoberty on Feb 8, 2009 1:50 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
This move seems to cry
“JD is moving from the course”.
FOR MANLY LOVE BE HERE MARCH 25TH AT 2:15 AM SHARP
How is a NRI and a minor league contract "moing from the course"?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I know what everyone is thinking, but yes Moing is a word.
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
*moving*
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
there is zero risk here
unless he stalls a Cruz or something. They can drop him in May and it will not cost them anything to take a look.
by mrichardson70 on Feb 8, 2009 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
Agree completely
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
A positive spin on this story
Those who wanted us to sign Jones last year when the Hunter deal fell through can now sleep knowing we got him for a STEAL.
Scott Feldman for 2009 AL Cy Young
Scott Feldman for 2010 AL Scott Feldman
by Maximilian on Feb 8, 2009 1:55 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
What the hell are you talking about, broseph?
Lay off the caffeine-laced crazy pills, pal.
No one here ever advocated anything like that.
Now let’s hear no more of this nonsense.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
I hate Michael Young.
"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith
LOL
fun to look back on predictions and shake your head sadly.
Scott Feldman for 2009 AL Cy Young
Scott Feldman for 2010 AL Scott Feldman
I've made some doozies.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
I hate Michael Young.
"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith
We all have
I wanted Aaron Rowand based on his being the next Rusty Greer, and thought that Gabbard would be the gem of the Gagne trade, off the top of my head.
Scott Feldman for 2009 AL Cy Young
Scott Feldman for 2010 AL Scott Feldman
Trust
I believe this goes down to trust. Do you trust the Rangers front office to put the best players on the field for this season and for the betterment of the team in 2010, 11, etc?
If Cruz starts poorly, does it hurt to have Jones their to pick up the slack. If this is about competition, then Cruz/Bryd/Murphy have to set it up a notch early. What if, just what if, this club started the season off well because these guys had to prove they were the right combo for this team?
"Purity of heart is to will one thing" - Kierkegaard
heh my guy was right
worst case is that he takes ST at bats away from…boggs? catt?
lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
No
Worst case is he sticks, we waive Nelson Cruz, who goes elsewhere and posts a 900 OPS with good RF defense, while Jones spends three months here sucking before going on the d.l.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 8, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly what I was gonna say Adam,
in different words of course.
"Evolution happened, now get over it." Michael Shermer
nelson cruz
i really think they are going to give him a shot this year, a REAL shot (but whow knows with ron washington setting the lineup…)
and i hope they do give him a long time to get it straight – midseason at least
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Cruz
If he hasn’t figured it out by mid May then I would look into cutting bait. Hes had plenty of time to put it together. I don’t think he gets half a season this time. Either hes got it or not.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
even after how well he did (all) of last year?
majors/minors?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Yeah
Its not like hes never torn up the minors before. If he reverts back to old Nelson Cruz to start this year I don’t think he makes it to June. I think the Rangers have seen it before and have seen enough of it and would be fine cutting ties if it happens. No matter how well he does elsewhere. Sometimes you just gotta let guys go.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I think you give him until the end of May no matter what and then go from there
Remember how Byrd looked at the beginning of last season and how well he finished it out. Now if Cruz hits like Jones did last year, that’s a different matter.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Byrd was injured
Went on the DL and once he came off was on fire.
If Cruz is healthy and 6 weeks into the season looks lost then you cut him. Don’t wait until the end of May. Those couple weeks could be crucial. Im not saying he has to come out putting up HOF numbers right off the bat but he needs to show hes made that step not taken a step back.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I see no way
they waive Cruz unless he’d been given a legitimate chance. Boggs and Catt would go before Cruz would
Boggs and Cat are probably gone anyway
Whether Jones is here or not.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 8, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
I assume you mean Boggs to AAA
Who would replace Cat if Jones doesn’t?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
this just
isnt gonna happen, we are gonna waive Frank Cat way before we waive Nelly.
Chris (NJ): I am personally offended at how you ranked a prospect from my favorite team, even though I do not know said prospect, nor have I ever seen him play. In my opinion you only have your job because, like your employers, you have an unholy bias towards my favorite team’s rival. Also, you’re short.
Keith Law: You’re right. I am short.
yep
unless you think JD is an absolute moron.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
"AMMIITAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABHH!!!"
Jones was just too cheap to pass up
There may be a 10% chance that Jones shows up to ST in shape and ready to perform at a high level again, and if that’s the case, then we got a steal and have the flexibility to move Byrd. (And no, we can’t really move Byrd now because I don’t think the Rangers want to go with Hamilton as being the only CF on the roster. I think Boggs could play CF just fine in the short term, but I’m not sure if the team agrees.)
To me, this is Edgardo Alfonso and nothing else. The fact that Jones is a big name makes people think he’ll automatically make the team, but I’m not sure that is the case.
this is my thoughts
if he sucks, hes gonna be out
if hes good, hes a steal
if hes in the middle, who knows what you do
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
read it again
I went back a read what Wilson is reporting…
“Jones can opt out of his contract with the Rangers on March 20.”
Jones is signing a minor league deal. He can opt out on 3/20. There is no roster committment by the Rangers. What does this mean?
Jones can walk if he doesn’t like what the Rangers tell him on March 20. I can’t see them committing a 25 or 40 man roster spot to him 2+ weeks before the season starts. That is what makes the 3/20 date puzzling. I think the Rangers would like for him to go to OKC and provide some veteran OF depth. I don’t see Andruw being on the roster unless he can magically find the fountain of youth.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
it also lets him go somewhere else before the season starts
and actually have a shot to make a team
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
I think Cat is the odd man out
if Jones shows anything with the bat. He is still a plus defender (I think)
I comment only to see my profile image
I think Cat is the odd man out
Period, end of sentence. CatMan needs to be released so he can enjoy his 4mil at his leisure.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Yep
Jones provides a RH b at off the bench which is sorely needed. He can be a defensive replacement late in games. And will allow us to play with a full 25 man roster instead of a 24 man roster like we had with Cat.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
+unconditional release waivers
Yeah. Spies. They're little guys with beady eyes and long fingernails. They plant bugs that can pick up the hush of a man's heartbeat - or the whisper of a falling hair.
by LSJ on Feb 8, 2009 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
I also think he will be working night and day with Rudy from now until March 20
and a decision will be made based on a Rudy appraisal.
I comment only to see my profile image
I would've thought that
36million dollars and a chance at the playoffs would’ve been motivation enough to work night and day after 1 1/2 years of sucking in addition to the fact that someone gave him that money at all when he didn’t appear to warrant it.
im giving JD the benefit of the doubt
and assuming he has a plan here. let’s not forget his penchant for stockpiling guys up the middle. he did it with catchers and middle infielders and now he’s adding one more to the collection of CF he’s brought in (borbon, hamilton, beltre, golson, and now jones). whether it works out or not is anyone’s guess, but the team did meet with him and see him workout so they mustve felt encouraged by something. i dont buy that we are already fine with regards to outfield depth. if you can add a guy who, if healthy and motivated, leapfrogs your #3 and #4 guys then you make the depth situation that much stronger. Injuries do happen, even to outfielders, and at the price i dont think it hurts to give jones a look and have another option in the system that can possibly play a good CF.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Feb 8, 2009 2:39 PM CST reply actions
let me rephrase that
i do think our outfield depth is fine, but i dont buy that we can’t improve it by adding a guy like jones.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Feb 8, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
You know, this strikes me as this year's Kevin Mench signing
We’ll probably get to spring training, and Wash will be raving about Andruw, and his clothe-hanger line drives, and me and AJM will both be shitting our pants. Hopefully though, just like Mench, Andruw won’t outperform anyone and his limitation to the OF will leave us without justification to put him on the roster… and considering how washed up he is, that seems like the most likely scenario.
Yeah. Spies. They're little guys with beady eyes and long fingernails. They plant bugs that can pick up the hush of a man's heartbeat - or the whisper of a falling hair.
I think there are three main reasons Jones is getting the NRI
1.) He is a center fielder
2.) He is right handed
3.) He is a (at least has been in the past) power bat
The only thing that scares me about this is Adam’s Sammy Sosa fear. If the guy isn’t in really good shape (for him), doesn’t rake at the plate in ST, and doesn’t demonstrate a plus defensive CF….then I don’t want him here.
And if he does all those things, then I don’t want him here at the expense of Cruz. It’s all about who the FO perceives as the odd man out if Jones shows something.
And it’s also all about a low-risk move for a guy who could…maybe…possibly…slight chance…play a plus defensive CF, break up the lefties, and hit cleanup. That’s the guy I would be ok with giving a 25 man spot too. If he doesn’t show up, then he can play for someone else after 3/20
Don't you ever damn call here again
Excellent summarization
That’s exactly where I’m at on this.
Yeah. Spies. They're little guys with beady eyes and long fingernails. They plant bugs that can pick up the hush of a man's heartbeat - or the whisper of a falling hair.
by LSJ on Feb 8, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
Great points
Solid rational thinking. That is a rarity on LSB with a few exceptions.
He doesn't play a plus cf anymore
by all accounts
True
I guess he would just have to play a good enough CF to move Josh over to RF. I guess one of the questions has to be who is your odd man out. If, even if it is unlikely, Jones goes out and puts a choke hold on the Opening Day CF job, what is your solution to the logjam in the OF?
Boggs to AAA, Cat DFAd (please just eat his salary), Hammy in RF, Cruz/Murphy in LF, Byrd 5th OFer or dealt
Don't you ever damn call here again
Above average in '08
Based on these numbers.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
i dont think
this is right, he’s always played a plus CF and if he’s healthy and in shape then last year’s close to avg will be more like above avg defense if i had to guess.
Chris (NJ): I am personally offended at how you ranked a prospect from my favorite team, even though I do not know said prospect, nor have I ever seen him play. In my opinion you only have your job because, like your employers, you have an unholy bias towards my favorite team’s rival. Also, you’re short.
Keith Law: You’re right. I am short.
Welcome to our only conversation
for the next six weeks. Over under on # of posts about Andruw Jones until the season.
8000
There have already been almost 1000...
…in the past 24 hours…
I’ll take the over.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 8, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
Rudy
Jones worked out with Rudy Jaramillo and maybe the guy saw some things he could fix. I agree with the above poster that said we should dump Cat instead of passing on Cruz if it comes to that.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
How doesn't this signing make sense?
This is a move that all the great teams make. Why not stockpile everything? Now we have multiple outfielders and catchers to deal for pitching. Signing Andruw Jones is the same as Boston signing Brad Penny for an already loaded rotation.
I hate Andrew Jones, but...
The signing makes sense to me. The Rangers are risking nothing, yet with Rudy and the ballpark, there’s an outside chance he could bring a prospect via trade in August. If not, they cut him. Big deal.
what's the cost of his deal if he makes the team?
if we trade Hank and/or Byrd and get SOMETHING valuable in return, and the cost of his deal isn’t too much, I’m completely fine with this. I don’t know if Jones has it in him to put up the kind of stats we need out of a cleanup hitter. and I don’t want to write off Cruz yet. but if we can slot him into the DH role for half a year, Cruz gets a legitimate shot at playing 2 out of 3 games, and we get something for Hank and/or Byrd, and allow Max to catch for another half of a season, build up Salty’s value and trade him at the same time we bring Max up to back up Teagarden who becomes the full-time starter, I am completely fine with this scenario. If Jones, however, becomes our every day starting CFer putting up mediocre stats, and Borbon puts up the OBP and other peripherals we deem appropriate enough for a mid-season callup, and we don’t bring him up because he’s blocked, I would hate the move.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
yes
i think everyone thinks this is gonna be at the expense of one of youngsters, but really, you can pretty much say good bye to franky if AJ makes the 25
Chris (NJ): I am personally offended at how you ranked a prospect from my favorite team, even though I do not know said prospect, nor have I ever seen him play. In my opinion you only have your job because, like your employers, you have an unholy bias towards my favorite team’s rival. Also, you’re short.
Keith Law: You’re right. I am short.
LF
I realize that Cruz and Hamilton both project best in Right Field. Can someone in the know tell me who would make the most sense in Left?
I’m curious… if the Rangers want a lineup including Hamilton, Blalock, Cruz and Jones if it’s easily done… or if it’s a bad deal for the defense?
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
Hamilton has better wheels/
covers more ground. I think he would be great in LF at RBiA…remember that is a huge field in left. Does he want to play there, dunno?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
How is he brittle?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
he is
he gets tired, has aches. the reason we are moving him off of CF in the first place
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
So everybody is "brittle" then?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
alright
this isn’t a news flash or anything. he needs rest. the whole point of moving him off center is so that he doesn’t need to run around as much (and the defense). what don’t you understand?
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Well
Brittle suggests he gets hurt often and can’t play a full season. Lots of players get tired over the course of a full season. Very few play 162 games. But last year Hamilton played over 150 games and put up great numbers. I wouldn’t call him brittle.
Moving him off Cf is more looking long term than simply to keep him rested this season. If moving him to RF lengthens his career by a couple years thats good. Brittle is a bad word to describe him.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
good lord
take it easy. you’re right, you’re the brittle one
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
by ab03 on Feb 8, 2009 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ah yes
the old resort to name calling when you are proven wrong routine. good one.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
not name calling
call them like i see them. you are pretty sensitive over there. and i don’t think i misused brittle. they are going to use kid gloves with hamilton (they did last year).
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
brittle
look up the definition and then come back to me. you absolutely misused it
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
i did
i didn’t misuse it either time
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
yeah........ you did
according to websters
Brittle means " easily broken, cracked, or snapped". Being tired doesn’t qualify as any of those. Milton Bradley would qualify as brittle. Brandon McCarthy would qualify as brittle. Josh Hamilton does not.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Feb 8, 2009 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i can't believe we're arguing this
brittle: easily hurt or offended
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
If you would stop trying to spin it as if you're right there would be no discussion
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
He spent time on the DL
Don’t think that qualifies him as brittle though. There were some extenuating circumstances surrounding him that year in Cincy.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
did hamilton get injured last year?
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
that's happening a lot lately.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
"AMMIITAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABHH!!!"
Eh?
He got tired, of course it was his 1st MLB full season. And he is below average in CF, which I think is a much more telling reason why they are thinking of/wanting to move him.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
ok
below average in CF means above average in LF?
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
The alternative is Cruz or a platoon.
I think Hamilton has more ability to be good in LF, yes.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Ok, that's fair.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
because LF is expansive
and he wasn’t great at making reads on the ball and we dont’ want to run him ragged.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
But the average left fielder also makes fewer plays than the average center fielder.
There’s less of a defensive demand at the position.
I might bet against him being any more than average, but I don’t see any reason to think he’s incapable. And the point is: it’s better than center.
I think the whole wear and tear thing is over blown.
ok
i agree that LF would be less demanding than CF but more than RF and that still doesn’t take into account the fact that he’s not good at making reads – problem that would be exacerbated by LF.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
And it would have less of an impact than in center.
I could see an argument for putting him in right over left, not in center over left.
yeah
that is the argument: right or left field.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
And that he can't be good in left.
I wouldn’t bet on him being good in left, but I think, depending on your definition, it’s doable. I’d bet heavily on him being pretty close to average.
yeah
i mean, i i agree he could be close to average (although given how bad he was in CF, maybe not). I also think he’d be a decent 3B. The point is that he should be a RF
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Where were you when I was getting abused during the season. . .
. . . for saying Hamilton wasn’t a plus centerfielder?
I probably piled on
but it seems really obvious now that he wasn’t good at all in CF.
I think he started the year alright actually and just progressively got worse.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Rod, seen
this?. Could be a good one
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
Sounds like it could be good.
August is too long of a wait to worry about though. I think I like Diane Kruger…
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
I am tired of Nazis
and movies having to do with them
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Still, having an
“Inglourious Basterds” T-shirt would be cool, no?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Does anyone
have semi-conclusive info on Andruw’s CF aptitude?
Kanye, you want to be the voice of this generation? Get in line! It goes me, Obamagirl, the Freecreditreport.com guys, then It's a tie between you-and Crocs.
-Stephen Colbert
12.4 UZR/150 in 2008.
I want to say his +/- was pretty similar from memory.
If he comes in to camp in any kind of shape, I do think he has a pretty good chance of being our best fielder, but god was that bat awful the last couple years. And I think the odds of him approaching what he use to do in the field are pretty close to non-existant.
a lazy Jones put up a 20 UZR/150 in Atlanta in 2007
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Hamilton in left. He's faster and, although his arm is obviously strong, it isn't as as accurate or as strong on the long throws as Cruz's, imo.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
I hate Michael Young.
"There are no weak opinions with the dirkatron, it’s all scream-across-the-parking-lot echelon." -hightowersmith
Which signing would have been worse
Andruw or Fuko?
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
I bet
I bet if they brought back Jason Botts on a NRI deal with the same opt-out clause, half of you against the deal today would probably be on the other side of the argument.
by aggierangerfan00 on Feb 8, 2009 4:33 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
+1 sir.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
Welp
Time to start praying every night that they don’t give him a spot on the 40 unless he proves he’s in peak condition.
And if that doesn’t work, start praying Wash doesn’t give him too many sucky PAs because he’s a “veteran” even though we have players who need an extended audition this year.
This really could turn out fine, I know it could, but I’m having trouble bein optimistic.
"another guy in his 30s "
he’s what, 3 years older than nellie Cruz? 4 years older than Murphy?
I think Andruw probably is done and won’t make the team, but I just don’t get all the sturm und drang over a nothing move.
Wasn’t Adam calling some of the guys who might be pushed off the team “4th OFS” last year?
Get off my lawn.
and actually
this coalition of guys that are so against it are just the people that overvalue guys like byrd/murphy/cruz
though i think adam has his own reasons for not supporting jones which have a lot to do with sosa
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
I'm just hoping
Andruw has hooked up with Dr. X2.
Get off my lawn.
by DJCahill on Feb 8, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
3 and 4 years is significant.
Especially when one of those three is out of the typical prime years for a baseball player.
Amen, thank you
A lot of hand wringing over nothing.
Hypothetical
If he can put up the same line Sosa did during his time here while playing well at CF, is this a good move or would you prefer to see Byrd/Boggs getting time?
Kanye, you want to be the voice of this generation? Get in line! It goes me, Obamagirl, the Freecreditreport.com guys, then It's a tie between you-and Crocs.
-Stephen Colbert
Adam said that an 850 OPS with above average CF defense
wasn’t worth it.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Really?
.850 has to be well above average for a centerfielder, doesn’t it?
Kanye, you want to be the voice of this generation? Get in line! It goes me, Obamagirl, the Freecreditreport.com guys, then It's a tie between you-and Crocs.
-Stephen Colbert
I dunno, park adjust it.
.777 was average for centerfielders last year. That ignores park adjustment and w/e, though.
Average EqA for the position tends to be about .265. I’d probably want him to put up well beyond that for it to be worth it, unless we get a nice trade return for him for it to be worth it in the end.
Perhaps
they want to make sure Murphy is completely recovered, and Jones is insurance if he isn’t quite ready, and in case Cruz reverts to past form(2 years ago).
"Who died and made you King?"
Seems like certain things must have happened when he worked out:
1)he appeared to have already lost weight
2)he moved well enough to make them believe his knees are better
3)Rudy saw enough to believe his swing can be salvaged
4)the chance to work with Rudy meant enough to him to turn down offers from NYY and Atl
If not, then I don’t understand it either.
"Who died and made you King?"
honestly
i don’t think they saw much – otherwise some other team would have given him a ML contract. I think they saw that he was in shape and had the potential to offer plus CF defense and they are hoping that a few sessions with Rudy will fix his swing if there is a problem there.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
i'm fine with it
its nothing more than a very low risk move on a guy who was very good two years ago and shouldn’t be washed up yet from an age standpoint. don’t think it says anything about what the organization thinks about its young outfielders and don’t think it is similar to bringing sosa in.
I think this is primarily a Washington/Jaramillo deal
which is disturbing in one sense, that they are going to grow attached to his veteran-ness and resist getting him out of the lineup even if he’s struggling, like they did with Sosa.
I disagree
When we signed Sosa this organization still hadn’t gone into full rebuild mode. Yes playing Sosa against RHP was a bad idea but it was done under the flag of “winning now”. Once we switched into full rebuild mode and traded away Gagne, Lofton, and Tex we also sat Sosa. So I have a hard time believing that now a couple years later and we have gone through all that rebuilding to get where we are now Wash would turn around and revert to playing veterans. Plus I think JD and Nolan would quickly nip that in the bud if it did start happening.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
So
two wrongs made a right, I see. Playing a player out of position (against RHP) because you are misevaluating how able to are to compete doesn’t make that move better. Also, for the sake of stating facts correctly, it was clear that they weren’t going to be competitive long before they dumped Sosa.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 8, 2009 6:12 PM CST up reply actions
I don't understand what you mean by two wrongs make a right?
My point was back when Sosa was here Washington was a rookie manager with a team and a front office whos objective was win now. Playing veterans, no matter how wrong it may be (like Sosa against RHP) is somewhat understandable.
Now we are a team whos front office has committed to rebuilding. Washington has been through the process now and knows how things are. And the kids we have now are alot better than the kids we had just a couple years ago. So I don’t think he would play Jones simply to play the veteran unless Jones shows he deserves to play. If he has gone back to close to his old form then you play him. But I don’t think h will be played a majority of the time just because hes a veteran.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Feb 8, 2009 6:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well not completely.
The front office’s objective MAY have been win now at the start of 2007, but by June, it was pretty clear that that was NOT the front office’s main objective, and Sosa was STILL played for a couple of months after that. (though to be fair about 20 days of that was in the chase for 600).
R
no it's not
they have little to no power on personnel moves.
not sure how u came up with that.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
"AMMIITAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABHH!!!"
Rudy has so little input
that they had Jones work out with him before signing him.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 8, 2009 8:06 PM CST up reply actions
wow
you can’t be serious.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
"AMMIITAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABHH!!!"
my hope
That this is more similar to the recent Kevin Mench deal than the recent Sammy Sosa dea.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
i guess
if u load up on a bunch of scrubs, you are hoping at least one of them will turn into something
OT: Quick
somebody get U2 off the stage….
"If you have a problem with me, you're probably a doucher."
Big difference
if Jones hits like Sosa did at the trading deadline, and the Rangers aren’t in contention, they will have takers for Jones. You can bet on that.
"Yeah, like I had a chance there" - Lancaster batter, after striking out against Derek Holland
Why sign Jones?
Andruw Jones = Kenny Lofton redux. Bring him in for peanuts, let Rudy work the kinks out in Surprise, give him a few AB’s, then ship him for spare parts at the trade deadline. If Jones pulls an even moderate statistical turnaround, you can bet the farm will benefit from this one.
by eric_hurleys_rotator_cuff on Feb 8, 2009 7:53 PM CST reply actions
max ramirez
= spare parts = fail
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
i really don't see what the big deal is...
sign Andruw, then
A. If he fails in ST, cut him…
B. If he doesn’t fail in ST, have a trade involving Byrd set up…
good move by JD… low risk/high reward… plus i think he gives us a right handed DH at times, too.
Bobby Jindal '12
AJM is a troll
So everyone wants to call out all of those who keep talking about the Chris Young and John Danks trades and call them trolls. So when is it okay to start calling Adam a troll because he keeps bringing up the Sosa move.
It’s beyond ridiculous to compare the signing of Jones to the Sosa stunt. Jones has 371 career home runs; Sosa stated with 588. The Rangers will stop the game, fans will cheer and ESPN will lead SC when someone hits their 600th. I doubt AJ’s 400th gets much more than a Chuck Morgan obligatory mention. Sosa got this 235th AB on June 20 when he got his 600th HR. He got 177 ABs the rest of the year. Sosa was an attendance stunt for a team that didn’t have anything else — nothing more.
Jones received a non-guaranteed contract. What’s the big deal? Sosa hasn’t played here since 2007. Nothing you can say or do will change anything that happened in 2007. Let it go. I’m just as tired of hearing you rail on the Sosa move as I am hearing HH, Josey, et al rail on the Danks and Young trades.
XOXOXO,
RDW
by robert_d_wilfong on Feb 9, 2009 1:43 AM CST reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Lone Star Ball
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
