Sunday morning Rangers stuff
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 1, 2009 9:43 AM CST
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PrintThe S-T has a brief mention this morning of Brandon McCarthy incorporating a slider into his repertoire, after a mention on the S-T blog last night that he was replacing his curve with a slider to reduce the strain on his elbow.
The reporting of this has me rather frustrated, because this is a pretty big story -- McCarthy's curve was considered to be arguably his best pitch -- and switching from it to a slider, which he apparently is still trying to figure out how to throw for strikes, is a pretty major switch. When did this decision come down? How long has he been working on the slider? Was it suggested by Mike Maddux? Nolan Ryan? Someone else? Did McCarthy come up with the idea on his own? How does this impact how he's viewed by the organization?
This is something that deserves more than a sentence or two, and hopefully, we'll get more details on this in the coming days...
Andruw Jones says he's still confident, despite starting off with a walk, an infield single, and 8 Ks in his first 10 spring PAs, and says that Rudy Jaramillo told him it would take 20 ABs or so to get comfortable with his new swing. I didn't realize that Jaramillo had changed Jones' swing. T.R. Sullivan indicates that it is about adopting Jaramillo's philosophy of keeping back on the ball.
C.J. Wilson would like to close, but will be a setup man this season, although Ron Washington says that if Frankie Francisco can't go in a save situation, Wilson would be the guy who would get the ball.
Sullivan writes on Joaquin Arias, whose career has been pretty much de-railed by a shoulder injury that has robbed him of his arm strength.
He also has some blog notes that include praise for Arias's throwing yesterday and for Travis Metcalf's all-around play.
Randy Galloway has a column about TBIA's reputation as a hitter's park, saying that pitchers need to be stronger mentally, whlie also suggesting that the park is just perceived as hitter-friendly because the Ranger offense is good and the Ranger pitching is not.
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I
don’t trust B-Mac to be productive. The only positive is the raving Salts has been doing about him, saying Mac could be anyone’s 1 or 2 when he keeps the ball down.
Speaking of Salty, so far so good…..
I had a secret meeting in the basement of my brain.
Galloway and I agree for the first time....well, ever
I’m also of the belief that the Rangers’ park has the stigma of being a hitters’ park because the Rangers have always had a good offense and crappy pitching.
I feel dirty now.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
I have no numbers
to back this up, but I think that most nights the ballpark is effectively neutral. Other nights it seems that from the visitors bullpen to the right field line any ball in the air has a chance of going out.
"A good start would be not giving up 900 runs again." -Jon Daniels
by Randy Richardson on Mar 1, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
Milwood said it best when he signed here
All I have to do is go out and be better than the other guy. He has to pitch here also. Or something along those lines.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Sadly
Millwood has not been able to achieve that.
I had a secret meeting in the basement of my brain.
by red shoe ranger on Mar 1, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
He hasn't been great
He has an ERA right around 5 for his 3 years here when pitching at home. Maybe someone with more knowledge on the numbers can tell really how bad that is in that park.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
According to basball-reference.com
The Ballpark has an average park factor of 104 since it opened in 1994. It may seem like it should be higher but among other things, they measure the effect of playing a lot of road games in pitchers parks like Oakland and Seattle.
So I guess a 4.00 ERA is a 4.16 in Arlington.
Yr. PF
2008 100
2007 100
2006 101
2005 106
2004 108
2003 111
2002 106
2001 104
2000 102
1999 105
1998 104
1997 105
1996 105
1995 103
1994 100
Average 104
I wonder also if the entire difference can be measure only in home runs. The Rangers have hit 206 more homers in Arlington than on the road since 1994. That’s an average of one every 6 games.
BTW, their opponents average one homer every 14 games more in Arlington than everywhere else.
Beyond home runs
this is a crazy triples park, and favors both lefty hitters and lefty pitchers more than righties. It’s not quite as much of a hitter’s park as people think, or at least it hasn’t been the last few years.
Galloway may have a point about the perception being exacerbated by the awful Rangers pitching of the last decade, but he obviously doesn’t understand park effects.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Milwood said it best when he signed here
All I have to do is go out and be better than the other guy. He has to pitch here also. Or something along those lines.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Is there an echo in here?
LoneStarBall....You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
by LSBUser on Mar 1, 2009 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
What the hell happened here?
I don’t know but apparently I need remedial internets classes
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
i've said this before
but the problem with millwood’s theory is that if in fact you are playing in a hitter’s park, you are at a disadvantage if you have to play there more often then your opponent. Your opponent might have just played three straight games in pitcher’s parks where he’s getting out of innings easily, keeping pitch counts/inning down. Probably more of a factor is the heat – being out there for a full month of July starts takes its toll but your opponent can probably get away with one start.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Then why the big home/road splits?
The pitchers and hitters are the same at home and on the road. The ballpark is different. So it would stand to reason the ballpark – or some other element of the playing environment – has something to do with their performance.
Weather
Weather can be a factor- when it’s hotter or drier, the ball tends to travel further; when it’s cold or wet, the ball doesn’t travel as far.
I suspect it’s a fairly big factor- RBiA and Safeco Field, just to throw out an example, have nearly the same distances in the outfield walls. But one’s a big hitter’s park, the other a big pitchers’ park. That can’t all be down to the M’s just having better pitchers than us.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
McCarthy's best pitch
I’m not motivated enough to look it up but I remember reading somewhere that McCarthy’s changeup was his best pitch. I was also under the impression that a slider put more stress on a pitcher’s elbow than a curveball.
In a conversation about Diamond
NoName said that the slider itself isn’t the problem, the problem is that it’s normally taught (incorrectly) in such a way that puts too much stress on the elbow.
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
+1
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 1, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
bmac's best pitch
I believe he was a fb/curveball pitcher coming up with Chicago, then he added a change (a devastating change, and it probably ended up becoming his best pitch). But, Bmac has the propensity to get a feel for a pitch rather quickly (like he did when he went to the change) and he should be able to throw his slider fairly well, soon…hopefully.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
"AMMIITAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABHH!!!"
McCarthy
Well now with the news McCarthy is scrapping his curve for a slider and hearing a few days ago Diamond is scrapping his curve for a slider you have to wonder if this isn’t an organizational philosophy. I really liked McCarthys curve although I thought sometimes he would get too in love with it and throw it too much. We definitely need more info on this.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
You may be
on to something but it seems like that if any would be an adovocate of a CB it would be Nolan Ryan. I understand that the slider wasnt as a big pitch during his day but it could be along the org. philosophy lines.
by Michael Cave on Mar 1, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Slider vs curve
Which one has the propensity to be left up in the zone and can be punished more often? Maybe that has something to do with it. I remember a couple years ago it seemed like everyone was learning a sinker with the thought that it could be kept down easier and thus not give up as many long balls. Maybe that has something to do with this thinking. Curves are more likely to be left up and when they are they usually don’t stay in the ballpark whereas sliders are less likely to be left in prime hitting spots.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Up In the Zone
KLaw had this to say about having pitches up in the zone:
The cutter is effective against hitters on both sides of the plate, helps him miss more bats, and has made him less of a flyball pitcher and thus less homer-prone. The White Sox have made teaching the cut fastball an organizational core competency, and more than half of the pitchers on their major league staff throw cutters.
Now obviously KLaw is talking about a cutter rather than a slider (and this is in reference to the Danks/McCarthy trade), but after doing a little more research, I wonder just how different the two pitches are. The Hardball Times had an article up on the anatomy of a slider, and they said that hard sliders can have little vertical movement while soft sliders have little vertical movement. In a chat, KLaw had this interesting comparison about sliders and cutters:
A cutter is just a slider with a less pronounced snap of the wrist (or, it’s a fastball with a little bit of that slider-snap thrown in).
Now, here are some photos with grips for a sider (top 3 photos) and cutter (bottom photo):
I guess the point of all this rambling is that the usefulness of teaching a cutter is well documented with the White Sox. And to my inexperienced eye, it seems that a hard slider with little vertical movement is pretty close to a cutter. So maybe there is not too much to be worry about with these changes.
by Excel Hearts Choi on Mar 1, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
Nah, I don't think there's too much to worry about either
There’s a huge amount of gray area between curve, slider, and cutter anyway. Unless it’s a 12-6 Zito-style curve, curves and sliders can be mistaken for one another on occasion, and when watching a game I couldn’t tell the difference between a slider and cutter if my life depended on it.
For all we know, a guy could continue to throw the same breaking ball but have it given a new name because a new observer (beat writer, pitching coach, whoever) uses a different term.
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
No
McCarthys was a definite curve. It may not have been a 12-6 but at the least it was a 1-7. A slider is much different from what BMac had been throwing
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Thanks for the info, I couldn't recall what BMac's curve looked like
My post was speaking more generally about the taxonomy of breaking balls as opposed to BMac or anyone else in particular.
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
We discussed this a while back, but I can't find a link right now.
IIRC, folks seemed to think that it was pitcher dependent, meaning whichever a pitcher can best control, but that they Rangers seem to be drafting pitchers who have the ability to throw curveballs, Beavan excepting.
JD: Adamant about 78 wins in 2009. Go Rangers!
curve vs. slider
I was under the impression that a pitchers arm angle was a big determinant in which breaking pitch they are able to throw effectively. I thought that over the top guys (like McCarthy) usually had an easier time throwing a curve because it’s easier to put that spin the ball compared to a low 3/4 guy that has an easier time throwing a breaking pitch with more horizontal movement.
Trip, can you make any sense of that and comment?
Doctor please. Some more of these.
If I remember correctly
He did throw some curveballs in the game yesterday (per Nadel). I don’t really care if he adds the slider, but what’s the point of scrapping the curveball altogether? He could just throw fewer of them
OT: The Great Paul Harvey
has passed. What an icon, I am saddened.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
A very sad day,,...
Hopefully he finds the greatest answer in life now… the rest of the story so to speak
Paul Harvey
Good day, indeed.
Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Thursdays 10 PM - 1 AM on FM 88.7 The Choice
Scott Feldman for 2009 AL Cy Young
Scott Feldman for 2010 AL Scott Feldman
OT: Opening Day Tickets...
I have been getting the emails about the ticket “Pre-sale” which starts tomorrow. Last year I bought tickets for Opening Day during the pre-sale and was upset that the only tickets available were in the upper deck. I know a lot of people were upset by this, and Chuck Morgan even responded to the complaints over at the NMLR board. Anyone know if the Rangers are going to release better seats during the pre-sale this year, or should I wait and try to be online at 9am next Saturday? Thanks.
Last time I got ticketsthrough this they were awful.
Then when tickets went on sale to the public suddenly good seats were there
I’m going to check tomorrow but if it’s only upperdeck I’ll wait
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Yup
My thoughts exactly. Last year I bought Opening Day through the pre-sale. I was online at 9am sharp and got last row upper deck seats (behind home plate at least). But, I know a lot of people complained, so I wondered if the Rangers might handle it differently this year. I am gonna call the ticket office when it opens it 15 minutes and see what they have to say.
I agree, the lack of info on both McCarthy and Diamond's switches is a bit frustrating
Definitely a failure so far on the part of the ST’s beatwriting staff.
What I’m interested in is whether these changes have been made because the Rangers think it will help Diamond and McCarthy individually, or if this is part of a new philosophy Maddux is bringing in. The Rangers have said they want to treat and develop pitchers as individual cases these days, and if this is part of some grand plan or philosophy of Maddux, to have all these guys throwing sliders that kind of worries me.
"You can have such a massive impact on a game even when you're not getting ground balls hit at you." - Michael Young
dunno about maddux's influence
‘cause he had some nasty curveball pitchers in Milwaukee. I’d guess it has more to do with Diamond and Bmac, and what’s best for them going forward now…
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
"AMMIITAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABHH!!!"
I would much rather have a pitching
Who teaches the best pitch for the individual pitcher, rather than having a one-size-fits-all philosophy. If McCarthy is best suited for throwing a slider while someone else needs to learn a curve while another pitcher should work on a cut fastball, then by all means teach them the pitch they need to throw for their style and abilities, don’t teach them all a freaking sinker ball because it’ll help them “keep the ball down”.
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
I think Bmac should learn the cutter.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
"AMMIITAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABHH!!!"
worked for danks
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 1, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Can we just get BMac on the field first?
Then worry about his pitches.
LoneStarBall....You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
by LSBUser on Mar 1, 2009 11:20 AM CST reply actions
i think that's what they are trying to do
with this change.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
"AMMIITAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABHH!!!"
Yippee!!!
LoneStarBall....You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
by LSBUser on Mar 1, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Well
You asked if we could get him on the field first. He’s been on the field.
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 1, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this
but that Jaramillo quote about Jones would seem to portend a lot more ST AB’s for Jones. Some might say too many AB’s.
I guess people realize it’s not an issue since it seems like because of injury/WBC, there are enough AB’s to go around.
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Theres nothing wrong with Jones playing
Hes not gonna take ABs away from Hamilton. Cruz is away at WBC. Byrd and Murphy are coming back from injury. Borbon and Golson will get plenty of ABs in B games and intrasquad games. If they were considered viable candidates to actually make the 25 man out of spring then there would be an argument to get them more ABs.
And considering Jones’ opt out date being in a couple weeks I would much rather get a full grasp on whether or not to keep him. If we don’t then those guys still have a couple weeks to get plenty of ABs
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I agree....
I have no problem with giving Jones a ton of OF at bats to see if this tweaked swing could get him back on track.
by death of the cool on Mar 1, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
i was under the impression that rudy changed his swing
not recently fwiw
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 1, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
When would he have changed it then?
He didn’t sign until right before spring training
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
couldn't you change a swing ...
after a couple batting practice sessions? If Rudy saw someting he didn’t like he could say try doing this or that… differently… now when it all starts clicking is another story… obviously that time is not here yet.
Have any Ranger pitchers gone on the D L today? No? O K I'll check back in 10 minutes.
Yeah which happened at the start of spring training
Rudy went to watch Andruw before we signed him and im sure probably told him if he signed with Texas there are things he’d like him to change and he’d work with him to change those things. But a player who is coming off a season like Jones and looking for work isn’t going to change things before he is signed. Im sure Rudy has been working with Jones all spring training so far and like he said it will probably take about 20 ABs which is only about a week.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
i think he worked out with him a few times before he signed with the rangers
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
he hit with rudy before he signed IIRC
i think multiple times
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
But because he hadn't signed
I highly doubt he was overhauling his swing. Also im sure there has to be some kind of rule where a teams coach cannot work with free agents until they have signed with that coaches club. Hitting in front of Rudy isn’t the same as working with Rudy.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Reeves...
Anyone catch his little snippet in the paper today with quotes from Michael Young about how good of a SS Derek Jeter is, and any quantifiable metric that says otherwise is “comical”?
Funny stuff
Michael Young
Can’t play or analyze shortstop, apparently.
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
by WestTxAg06 on Mar 1, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
rec
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 1, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
Carlton's slider
It is all due to the grip on the ball. No twisting of the wrist.
http://www.carlton32.com/pages/slider.html
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Rangers injury news:
"It doesn't look like he's trying. It kinda pisses me off," "He could throw 110 if he tried. The way it explodes out of his hand is really something special." ~ B-Mac on Feliz.
Good news on Boggs...
I think it’s becoming more likely that Eyre won’t be ready for the start of the season, which should give Nippert the long man job out of the ’pen. Which is fine by me, I would have given it to him over Eyre to begin with .
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I'm sure that
this is being talked about in the game thread, but Hamilton had to leave today’s game after an inning because of a sore achilles.
by Brett Perryman on Mar 1, 2009 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
did you hear Nadel on Feliz?
He said the scouts had Feliz 94-98 yesterday.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
I'm more excited
that Holland was apparently still in the mid-90s for his last outing.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Both good news
but yeah that’s really good news about Holland. Something tells me that Feliz could pick up a baseball for the first time in his life and throw it about 90 mph. And I may have to release the hand brake on my Holland excitement.
by Brett Perryman on Mar 1, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
Yup.
After watching some video of Holland’s mechanics I’m glad I voted him as my #1 guy when we did our CPP rankings.
I’m no pitching mechanics expert, but the extension and drive he gets in his delivery, and the smooth, athletic way he gets to his release point combined to make me pretty hard.
I love Feliz, but I love me some Der-Hol even more.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
I hate Michael Young.
"I don’t have any respect for anybody on here. Everyone on here is a fucking asshole who thinks they’re god compared to everyone else." -iorange555, throwing one of his patented sandy-vagina'd hissy fits.
You could say Der-Hol a gazillion times
and it’s still not going to catch on. :)
by Brett Perryman on Mar 1, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions
His delivery
does look pretty damn smooth even if the ball doesn’t quite rocket out of his hand the way a Feliz pitch does.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Earlier today on BBTN...
each guy had to make a bold prediction. John Kruk’s was that the Rangers will win the AL West and Jones will be the AL comeback player of the year. Ummm……ok.
Look, I’d love for the guy to be right on this one but Kruk is a clown (who also picked the Phillies to repeat again by the way) and I really can’t take anything the guy says seriously.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
how dare you not believe what you heard on the worldwide leader
you clearly do not know a baseball genius when you see one
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
You realize what "bold prediction" means right?
If he would have said the Yankees would win the East that wouldn’t be a bold prediction. The Rangers winning the West is a pretty bold prediction as is Jones for Comeback player. Will those come true….doubtful but they are both very bold predictions
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Mar 1, 2009 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes...
I’m aware of what a “bold prediction” is. Thanks.
That still has nothing to do with the fact that I can’t take anything Kruk says seriously. I get the feeling that he doesn’t believe most of the shit that comes out of his own mouth.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
lol
I think he was questioning the prediction, not the boldness. Way to argue for the sake of arguing, though
Thats what a bold prediction is though
A prediction that has very little chance of coming true but if it does and you predicted it you look like a genius. if it doesn’t then it was just a bold predicition. The way he put it it seemed like that prediction is what caused him to not believe anything Kruk says. If thats the case then you obviously don’t understand what a bold predicition is.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I have been saying this for years.
“the park is just perceived as hitter-friendly because the Ranger offense is good and the Ranger pitching is not.”
Ephesians 1:3-10
And you have been wrong for years
and don’t understand how they calculate park factors.
Get off my lawn.
If Galloway is saying something you've been saying
it’s probably time to stop saying it.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
anybody catch that
line from the Arias article that say’s ‘if his heart is in it’ referring to Vizquel? Wonder if he’s having second thoughts about a minor league contract and competing for a job in ST?
Gotta think he
asks for his release if it’s looking like Andrus and Arias are both up to making the roster.
by Brett Perryman on Mar 2, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
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