Andruw Jones discussion

by Adam J. Morris on Mar 11, 2009 12:47 PM CDT Comment 58 comments

Evan Grant walks through the factors involved in keeping Andruw Jones on the 25 man roster. While I agree that Jones either is the starting CF'er or gone, I don't think Frank Catalanotto's contract is as big a factor in the decision as Grant seems to...he's a sunk cost, and I think the front office realizes that. If he's a viable 25th man on the roster who can pinch hit late in the game for Vizquel or Andrus and occasionally DH or play first base, then fine. If the roster is better with someone else in that spot, I don't think the fact that he's owed $6 million is going to be that big an issue.

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Take the cost offset approach.

If AJ is good enough to stick, his value will surely be more than the ~1.5mil the team will pay him, which offsets the costs of releasing Cat.

If a younger player is deemed more worthy of that roster spot, his production/value will be far less than market value, which also offsets the salary of Cat.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Mar 11, 2009 12:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Unless Jones overwhelms both at the plate and in the field, ditch him.

The burden of proof is on Jones. He needs to unequivacally show that he still has it with the bat and with the glove or he should not be displacing anyone except Cat. They should not be worried about too many left handed bats. They should not be playing Jones over Byrd unless it’s painfully obvious he’s better by a wide margin.

I share the fear of some here that Jones will play just well enough that they’ll keep his untradeable keister on the roster all year.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Mar 11, 2009 1:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

unequivocally

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Mar 11, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Jones is better than Byrd by a small margin

Why would you rather have Byrd play? Especially if you consider that Jones’s ceiling is clearly higher.

by BuckyB on Mar 11, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well Byrd isn't coming off two straight years like Jones had

So if he shows in a small spring sample size hes marginally better than Byrd it has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Mar 11, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

But I don’t mind him starting in place of Byrd and if it turns out that his ST performance was a fluke, releasing him and putting Byrd back in. If you take out his first 10 K’s, he’s playing extremely well (from the sounds of it).

by BuckyB on Mar 11, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What?

You are going to sit a guy who is a clubhouse leader and fan favorite and is coming of two seasons of OPS+ of 113 and 123 respectively to play a guy who is coming off seasons of 88 and 34 OPS+’s just because of a few spring training at bats?

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Mar 11, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes.

If he can show CF-ing prowess and has Rudy’s vote of confidence, he has tremendous upside and can be a tremendous value for the Rangers (via production or trade). Rudy said his swing would take a little while to get used to, and he;s been raking since his 10 k’s

by BuckyB on Mar 11, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because it's hard to tell

if Andruw will be better than Byrd over an entire season, given the small sample size of ST. Only if he looks significantly better do you take the chance.

Say when you go get gas at the Shell station, they have this new experimental gasoline formulation that might give you better gas mileage, but it also might undergo unanticipated combustion sequences in older vehicles like your 1966 Impala, and give you worse gas mileage, screwing up your electrical system, and causing your airbags to deploy at randomly determined intervals. Now, how much anticipated improvement in gas mileage would you need before you would try the new formulation?

by Telegraph on Mar 11, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

Since I’ve never seen a 66 Impala with air bags I would go with the mileage but I see your point

by BEW on Mar 11, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and I've never seen airbags

by Telegraph on Mar 11, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kris Benson's wife has a pair implanted in her chest

maybe someone here has a pic?

Doctor please. Some more of these.

by tricer on Mar 11, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

always fishing

by BuckyB on Mar 11, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

looks like she has a nice grip on her airbags here

Doctor please. Some more of these.

by tricer on Mar 11, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

When did Anna Benson start reading?

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Mar 11, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

in 2006

when her lawyer presented her with the rough draft of the divorce papers that never came to be.

What's the Nef tally??

by BigGuns on Mar 11, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

heh

I guess we know now why the divorce never went through

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Mar 11, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hahahaha

What's the Nef tally??

by BigGuns on Mar 12, 2009 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good analogy

But I need that new experimental gasoline formulation to have 7 30+ home run seasons, 4 all-star appearances, and 10 gold gloves in CF and only be 31 years old

by BuckyB on Mar 11, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But if it's

his untradeable keister or Cat’s untradeable keister, what’s the diff?

At most Jones is an extra half million. If he makes his incentives, its almost a slam dunk that he is worth more than Cat.

Until I see a 25 man roster that doesn’t include Cat, I’d say Jones has to be very much in the picture.

Get off my lawn.

by DJCahill on Mar 11, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he makes his incetives, it's a no doubt slam dunk.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Mar 11, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I want Cat gone as well.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Mar 11, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

Either Jones or Cat, pick your poison.

by hiafex on Mar 11, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

see I disagree.

If Jones can do what Byrd does, you can trade Byrd and you cannot trade Jones. And if Jones flops after a trade, you simply bring up Boggs. Or Borbon. Or Golson. We have options. And those options are going to have to surface at the ML level sooner or later. So I say take advantage of that situation and make it happen sooner. Maybe 2, 3 months into the season?

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Mar 11, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So, Jones is the big discussion of the day, huh? yawn.

Go Providence!

JD: Adamant about 78 wins in 2009. Go Rangers!

by rooster on Mar 11, 2009 1:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Cat's a sunk cost, and basicly untradeable.

I just don’t see a lot of downside to releasing him.

The only real delta cost is Andruw Jones contract, which is what, half a mill guaranteed with a mill in bonuses?

I’m not saying Andruw definitely needs to stay, but if they think he can play the field (which is kind of an open question I guess), and hit a 750 OPS, then its a no brainer.

Get off my lawn.

by DJCahill on Mar 11, 2009 1:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

OT

When the boys refer to he who should not be named, as in the collumnist for the fwst, who is it? Jim Reeves?

This is our year.

http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/1/29/739765/the-socket-joint-rotator-c

by PM Productions on Mar 11, 2009 2:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Grandpa Urine

aka Galloway

by Inkara1 on Mar 11, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

O

Well I hate Galloway and Reeves

This is our year.

http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/1/29/739765/the-socket-joint-rotator-c

by PM Productions on Mar 11, 2009 2:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Apologies if this has been discussed

but how does Cruz’ absence from ST in Surprise factor into this? Are we to assume that he’s got a job and that he’s not competing with Andruw for a starting gig?

by biff pocoroba on Mar 11, 2009 2:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Cruz has a job

His September performance pretty much locked him into a job at least to start the year. However another of his patented shitty starts and he’ll be DFAd I imagine.

Cruz’s absence has actually helped alot because it has given alot more ABs and playing time to Jones. Now tthat Cruz is coming back its going to be interesting to see how that is doled out. You have to get your normal starters (Hamilton, Cruz, Murphy, and Byrd) plenty of playing time in order to be ready for the season but also get Jones enough ABs to make an informed decision about whether to keep him or not.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Mar 11, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know if it's that simple.

and that’s what sucks. I could totally see Cruz coming back to Jones in CF, Hamilton in RF and Washington using Murphy in left. Then, he has to fight Byrd for playing time (if Byrd isn’t traded). Which sucks. Because based on what he CAN do, he’s our 2nd best outfielder.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Mar 11, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

As I commented over at Inside Corner....

No thanks!!

Andruw is at the end of his career and we already have plenty of OF on the 25 man roster that can do what he can do. We also have a couple others waiting to come up later this year or next year.

If Boggs, Byrd, and Murphy’s injuries were still lingering at the moment (which is what I think JD was thinking with this Jones signing) I would have to really think about it. Everyone seems to be at or close to 100%, so Andruw is not needed.

Adam J. Morris - "Murphy isn't that good. He is overrated by Rangers fans."
....How dare you, sir!! Take it back!!

by bspate on Mar 11, 2009 3:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Really?

A. 04/23/1977

B. 08/30/1977

B is your boy, Byrd, and A is Jones. Why is one at the end of their career, again? Byrd had a five year slump, and ended up here, while Jones had a two year slump, and ended up here.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Mar 11, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

OTOH

who has looked more like the aging player the last 2 years?

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Mar 11, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Jones has looked like....

a player trying to learn how to play again after probably coming off of PED’s. This is only my assumption, but it is what it is. If neither is in the plans for 2010, then Jones has the bigger upside to the Rangers this year. Byrd would bring more in a trade and Jones would have a year to find his groove again and maybe bring something at the deadline.

by Ranger Capt on Mar 11, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Byrd is more likely to bring something back in a trade

and is pretty much a guarantee to bring back at least a supplemental draft pick. Jones is a long shot to do either.

And is anyone else concerned that Jones’ defense is apparently crap right now and that he might be dogging it when he has to show the team he can play?

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Mar 11, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Keeping Cat....

Does anyone think that the Rangers will keep Cat because they want an experienced left handed pinch hitter late in games for Elvis or Omar?

I am not saying that its the right move, however I could easily see the Rangers making this choice.

by death of the cool on Mar 11, 2009 3:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Being left-handed

Is actually one of the reasons Cat’s useless. You can only PH him in the late innings against a righty, and if it’s a big spot and the opposing manager has a lefty in the bullpen, it’s likely LOOGY time.

"You can have such a massive impact on a game even when you're not getting ground balls hit at you." - Michael Young

by lonestarJon on Mar 11, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But would you pinch hit for Elvis if its a lefty on the mound?

I think the reason why you would pinch hit for him is if its righty-righty

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Mar 11, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You anounce pinch-hitter

Manager makes pitching change.

by tyd3311 on Mar 11, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK fine

Let them use their LOOGY on Cat so hes unavailable for Hamilton, Hank, and Crush

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Mar 11, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And if it's 9th inning?

by BuckyB on Mar 11, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

8th inning*

by BuckyB on Mar 11, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well then you got a 1 in 3 chance Cat gets on base and the top of the lineup comes up

based on his career .331 OBP against LHP

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Mar 11, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And you face a closer not a LOOGY

by BuckyB on Mar 11, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK

I’ll take my chances with Kins, MY, Hammy, Cruz, and Blalock against a closer too.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Mar 12, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You don't make sense

by BuckyB on Mar 12, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

at all

by BuckyB on Mar 12, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

Worrying about a team using a LOOGY on the #9 hitter in the lineup doesn’t make sense either. Especially on a team with as many LH power bats as we have.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Mar 12, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So a lefty bench bat is useless as a PH?

by Adam J. Morris on Mar 11, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

When that's exclusively the only thing they can bring to the team

Pretty much.

"You can have such a massive impact on a game even when you're not getting ground balls hit at you." - Michael Young

by lonestarJon on Mar 11, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well its more useful now than last year

with andrus/omar at short.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Mar 11, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

True

But with Cruz in RF, we should have one of Murphy/Byrd/Blalock on the bench on any given day available to PH, at least for the first couple months of the season.

"You can have such a massive impact on a game even when you're not getting ground balls hit at you." - Michael Young

by lonestarJon on Mar 11, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about a righty bench bat?

by Adam J. Morris on Mar 11, 2009 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, considering how left-handed this team is at 1B/DH

A righty bench bat who could double as a RH DH when needed seems like a much more valuable commodity than a LH bench bat.

"You can have such a massive impact on a game even when you're not getting ground balls hit at you." - Michael Young

by lonestarJon on Mar 11, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You should be studying...

Right?

;)

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Mar 11, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs