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New T.R. Sullivan mailbag up

T.R. Sullivan has a new mailbag column up...

We have the inevitable "why don't we trade some spare parts for a really good player" question, a question about signing Pedro Martinez, and a fair amount of talk on the catching situation...

Check it out...

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Comments

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T.R. Seems a bit grouchy today.

I did like the plug for his book though

by BEW on Mar 16, 2009 12:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That would have been a better way...

…to answer that question. Cleveland’s error total that year was largely irrelevant since runs scored following errors usually don’t count as earned.

We couldn't have known it at the time but we definitely killed the wrong Belushi brother.

by Chad Crudup on Mar 16, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess.

Seems like something you could look up yourself pretty quickly, though.

Also, why not read “Moneyball”? It’s a pretty important book in his profession.

by brettgardner on Mar 16, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No kidding.

Also, did I miss something with that Catfish Hunter reference, or is that a bit crazy?

I don’t understand what the tiring part of the argument is. The e-mail didn’t challenge one perspective over the other, and just asked which T.R. would lean towards.

by jwiscarson on Mar 16, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

fwiw

I remember reading a column by Steve Wulf, where he said he understood and respected statistical analysis, but he covered the Dodgers in the 70s and, regardless of what the stats say, Steve Garvey was a Hall of Famer, period.

by Adam J. Morris on Mar 16, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Point of e-mail

I think the purpose of the question was to call into question Elvis’ ability. The e-mailer is saying that Elvis may be overrated b/c of all of his minor league errors and that the “eye ball test” is the only reason why he will be in Arlington this year. I think the e-mailer is probably wrong.

by Jack Nicholson 1974 on Mar 16, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great - a Vernon Wells question

And the obligitory “he used to play around here, why don’t we get him?”

by WyoRanger on Mar 16, 2009 2:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh that wacky Sullivan-asaurus...

…today’s primitive musings reminded me of how much he loved Sideshow’s RBI in 2007.

We couldn't have known it at the time but we definitely killed the wrong Belushi brother.

by Chad Crudup on Mar 16, 2009 3:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

TR Sullivan is something.
I was wondering what you thought of the numbers vs. “eyeball test” problem set forth in the book “Moneyball.” If a guy looks like a defensive whiz but commits a ton of errors in the Minors, do you lean towards the “Moneyball” assessment or the old scout’s “eyeball test”?
— Arfeo Y., Houston, Tex.
1. Didn’t read “Moneyball,” but this is getting to be a really old and tiring argument.

So… you’re not going to answer the guy’s question, is that it? Well, at least you come right out and admit it.

2. I crunched numbers long before most but still believe Jim “Catfish” Hunter is one of the greatest pitchers in baseball history and no argument with numbers can convince me otherwise.

Wait… you crunched numbers long before most? That’s ironic, since you don’t seem to know what the fuck they are. But anyway, instead of not answering the guy’s question you’re just going to rant instead, huh?

3. Want a baseball book to read? Try Pam Postema’s “You’ve Got To Have B*lls To Make it in This League.” It’s about the lady who tried to become an umpire. Now that’s a great baseball book without the Pythagorean Theorem ever mentioned.

Yup, just going to rant instead. Okay, we get it. You don’t like Moneyball. Or the Pythagorean Theorem. Or numbers that say things you don’t want to hear. You’d rather bury your head in the sand and read a book about a woman trying to become an umpire.

Well, to each his own, I suppose.

4. Or this book.

So… after that supposedly clever anti-sabermetric rant above, now you’re going to plug the book you cowrote? Hmn. Stay classy, TR.

Now blogging again (temporarily) at "Hello Win Column".

by lonestarJon on Mar 16, 2009 7:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Why shouldn't he plug his own book?

Several people on here plugs their individual blogs/web sites. It’s the same thing in my eyes.

-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
I want to be the next Annie Savoy.

by baseballismyboyfriend on Mar 16, 2009 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, TR's writing an offical article on the Rangers website

But the fact that he chooses to plug the book after he just got done saying things that make him look ignorant, and unwilling to learn/read about other viewpoints is what really ticks me off.

Now blogging again (temporarily) at "Hello Win Column".

by lonestarJon on Mar 16, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ignorant

From a point of view I’d suppose, but wouldn’t you say it’s a different mindset, rather than ignorant? T.R. is not unaware nor inexperienced with statistical analysis.

But I was a little curious too, about the plug for the book. But I see no real harm in it.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Mar 16, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd say it's a stubborn mindset myself

Based on that and the blog entry I linked to, I’d say he is both unaware of and opposed the acception of modern statistical analysis, and that it’s becoming a running theme with him.

It’s why I’ve lost respect for him, actually.

Now blogging again (temporarily) at "Hello Win Column".

by lonestarJon on Mar 16, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don't think you can call someone ignorant

and use the phrase “opposed the acception”

"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."

by ab03 on Mar 16, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I either forgot to type "to" or LSB 2.0 glitched again

I am a little dyslexic and bad at typing, so it’s probably the former.

Now blogging again (temporarily) at "Hello Win Column".

by lonestarJon on Mar 16, 2009 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and forgot to type

acceptance instead of making up a word.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Mar 17, 2009 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Heh

Yeah, pretty much. Things just don’t tend to flow out of my brain and onto the keyboard very well sometimes. This would be a great example.

Now blogging again (temporarily) at "Hello Win Column".

by lonestarJon on Mar 17, 2009 12:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you on this point.

At least in this particular answer, he came across as a Joe Morgan “I don’t care what Moneyball’s about. I hate the new statistical analysis and love the old scouting. By the way, here’s a link to my book about a scout who I think is awesome.”

To me, it comes across as borderline anti-intellectual. What’s the point of mentioning the Pythagorean theorem?

Regarding Ed’s reply above: does TR use anything beyond the normal triple-slash stats? I recall him mentioning OPS once and OBP a handful of times, but it’s always seemed to me like he uses them in situations where he’s sure they back up the traditional stats — to me, this comes across as ignorance more than a genuine disagreement, but I don’t read his columns all that often so I could be wrong here.

by jwiscarson on Mar 16, 2009 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

His reply to the Millwood/2005 Cleveland defense question should give you an idea of his statistical knowledge

I know you can’t really get too “statty” when you’re working for MLB.com, but I don’t think I’ve even ever seen TR use the triple-slash lines.

He does like to come up with weird ERA samples for pitchers every once in awhile though (like this) but that’s about as in depth as I’ve ever seen him go.

Now blogging again (temporarily) at "Hello Win Column".

by lonestarJon on Mar 17, 2009 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"stay classy"

how very ironic

"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."

by ab03 on Mar 16, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Admit it

You just wanted to go all FJM-style on his azz.

by JimBonnick84 on Mar 17, 2009 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh, maybe

I just get tired of his anti-stat BS. Not that I’m a big saber genie or anything, but I don’t like old-fart writers who try to de-legitimize it just because they refuse to learn anything about it.

Now blogging again (temporarily) at "Hello Win Column".

by lonestarJon on Mar 17, 2009 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, you mentioned it above

You can’t really get to stat oriented on mlb.com. But yeah, maybe he does deserve it if he’s playing an ongoing “stats suck” undertone with his writing. Honestly I don’t read him enough to know.

by JimBonnick84 on Mar 17, 2009 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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