Thursday a.m. stuff
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 26, 2009 9:14 AM CDT
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PrintYeah, I still can't get fired up about a spring training win, but a win is still better than a loss. And a win off of a Chris Davis grand slam is especially nice.
For those who didn't watch the game last night, that Davis shot was truly a thing of beauty...one of those line drives that seems like it is in the stands before the right fielder could even turn around.
Evan Grant says Eddie Guardado helped himself yesterday, although it seems like his roster spot is pretty much guaranteed, while Brendon Donnelly hurt himself by struggling once again. Donnelly can opt out of his minor league deal tomorrow, and the Rangers apparently aren't planning on adding him to the 40 man before then.
Jeff Wilson has a story up on the Josh Hamilton contract negotiations, which includes this quote from Tom Hicks:
"There’s no reason for us to take the risk of buying out arbitration without getting the benefit of buying out at least one year of free agency," Hicks said. "Obviously, we think he’s a great player. We want him to be a Ranger for a long time. We’ll let the process work its course. If not, we’ll enjoy him for four more years, anyway."
I had a dream last night that the Rangers signed him to a 4 year, $30 million deal that locked him up through 2013, and I remember in the dream being confused that they didn't buy out any free agent years.
Evan Grant had a live blog of the game last night in which he also answered a variety of questions that were submitted in the comments.
Anthony Andro has some notes up, including the news that Max Ramirez has been sent down, and Ron Washington saying that Kris Benson could end up making the rotation out of spring training.
Mike Hindman has some notes up regarding some spring stats at the Inside Corner.
Richard Durrett has a Q&A with Tom Hicks up at the DMN site.
Jeff Wilson a story up about Hicks looking to bring in minority investors with the Rangers and Stars, including Nolan Ryan.
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Hicks Q & A
can we all just relax now on the payroll issue? Hicks says — explicitly — that the team will go get a player they believe in. Who here is going to complain about not keeping Blalock, Padilla, or Cat around? You could make a case for Padilla, but I dare say you can have a comparable pitcher on the staff for less than $12M, and maybe a better one.
Hicks has done many, many stupid things, but the simplistic, reactionary view that he doesn’t care about winning and is too cheap to spend on good players is just inane.
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selling off those stakes
would go a long way in assuaging my fears about the future frugality of this club.
???
I don’t see how a minority investor would be happy about spending more on payroll. A minority investor gets none of the credit for the potential winning and is guaranteed to see his investment (in terms of income) suffer. A minority investor is not the key to opening the checkbook.
by Jack Nicholson 1974 on Mar 26, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
A minority investor
eases Hicks’ mind about cash flow, and I’m assuming knows they’re making a mid to long term investment, not looking for a quick gain. Winning means increased value and profits, so a minority investor is going to be more than ok if the team trades for someone like Halladay, or signs a quality free agent. Especially knowing there is a pipeline of young talent that will keep the team from having to sign a lot of guys just to shore up the roster.
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If Hicks were interesting enough a subject
I’d have this as my signature.
Hicks has done many, many stupid things, but the simplistic, reactionary view that he doesn’t care about winning and is too cheap to spend on good players is just inane.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Mar 26, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Really?
Did you check out what Tom Hicks did after the 2004 season?
Raised ticket & parking prices (despite seeing an attendance surge of 6000/game) and slashed player expenses despite having all kinds of “financial flexibility.”
Tom Hicks doesn’t give a damn about winning.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep
Notice how he was absent from the article yesterday saying payroll wasn’t being slashed. How convenient
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
We don't know what is going to happen
to the payroll, big steve.
I think it’s going to be well below $ 60 million in 2010.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
We do know whats going to happen
Payroll is going to be in the low to mid 50 million dollar range and there is nothing we can do about it. Why you ask? Because this club is loaded with talented young prearbitration players making $500,000 or less. Of course you don’t care about who is playing on the team you just want that payroll figure to be up there so it fits into the “5th largest media market” bullshit you spew.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
And then we'll score 900 runs again
and wonder why the hell we only won 75 games.
And you can do something about it…don’t show up at the ballpark / don’t feel compelled to have blind faith in your leaders.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Not in 2010
In 2010 we are winning our division and I will be right there in the stands holding a “What now Josey” sign
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
if you love another team
please go follow it
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 26, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Which would you rather have happen?
Rangers score 900 runs and win 75 games, but with a payroll of $80 million, much of it spent on pitchers are on the downslope of their careers that show up out of shape, last only five innings a start when not on the DL, but make $12 million a year?
Rangers score 900 runs and win 75 games, with a payroll of $55 million, with kids pitching and taking their lumps now, with some chance they’re learning something and improving so that they won’t give up 960 runs again?
Besides, which big-name pitcher are the Rangers going to sign next year? Lackey? He’s another Chan Ho Park waiting to happen.
What I see next year is Padilla & Millwood leaving
and this team counting on Holland & Feliz to match or exceed what they gave this club. What if that doesn’t happen?
It takes most young pitchers 2-3 years to get up and rolling.
That takes us to 2012 and the clock will be ticking on Josh, Kinsler and Crush.
Just heard on The Ticket that Lackey has tightness in his elbow and is being shut down.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
It wouldn't take that much to match or exceed what Millwood and Padilla have given this club the last couple years.
As for Lackey… decent but not great stats, home ballpark that helps those stats (that marine layer in Anaheim at night really knocks the balls down), less than stellar history when pitching in Arlington… if the Angels let him walk and Texas signs him, he will be Chan Ho all over again. And he now comes with 50 percent more injury risk.
Folowing up on your "It takes most young pitchers 2-3 years to get up and rolling" thought
Then shouldn’t guys like Harrison, Feldman and some of the other young bullpen arms be “up and rolling” at a higher success rate than last year? Isn’t the staff as a whole likely to benefit from those guys being 2-3 years into that 2-3 rampup?
I don’t think the dropoff from losing Millwood will be all that hard to replace. Padilla will be the one that Holland and Feliz have to make up for.
Harrison is a work in progress
and my hope for him this year is that he can psychologically survive a bumpy ride (BP has him down for an ERA of 6.31 in 2009).
Feldman is just filler for me and a good team wouldn’t have him as any more than a 5th starter.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
So are you saying that this team can't use a 5th starter?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
And that payroll would have no negative effect
on the talent level of the team.
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tball
and you’re like Linus waiting for the Great Pumpkin to appear.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
question JW
is it the WORST thing he can do to treat baseball as a business?
i mean, he could be out spending 50 mil on GMJ, but hes not. he recognizes that when you have a superior talent out there, for example, sheets, you go get the talent. he bid on dice k, etc.
would he rather be like loria down in florida?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 26, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
You don't spend $ 50 million on GMJ
but you do spend $ 36 million on Derek Lowe/ $ 40 million on Ted Lilly / $ 55 million on Gil Meche when they come available.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
even though out of those guys
GMJ had the most recent success. Lilly was coming off a decent season but nothing spectacular. Meche was coming off his first healthy season in three years and was nothing special.
Not gonna argue about Lowe although he was before 2005 not 2007.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
meche- career 102 era+ (107 last year)
lilly – career 103 era+ (109 last year)
no arguement about lowe
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 26, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
One of the Rangers' biggest problems has been spending that kind of money on players that aren't that good
Todd Van Poppel? Jay Powell? etc.
What would you have said if the Giants hadn’t given Zito $126 million and he had signed here and put up the same crappy numbers he’s put up in San Francisco? After all, he was supposed to be the best pitcher available in that free-agent class and is a Cy Young winner.
I didn't want Zito because I was worried the team
was going to lose Young & Tex.
Having Zito on the team with them would have meant a payroll creeping towards $ 95 million and Hicks wasn’t going there.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Because he's never gone there before right?
Oh nevermind I must have forgot about those 100+ million dollar payrolls earlier this decade
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
So you want the team to spend big money on players
but you don’t actually want the team to sign the big money players because we might lose other players? With one of those players being a guy we signed to a big contract and you have said it was a stupid move by JD. I’m surprised your head hasn’t exploded by now.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I thought when the Rangers signed MYoung
to his extension it was the first step towards having a more respectable and almost market-appropriate payroll of $ 80-85 million. Surely you wouldn’t pay somebody like Young $ 16 million per with a payroll of $ 68 million (or possibly $ 48 million).
I didn’t want to lose Tex because I considered him to be a HOF potential player who was about to hit his prime as a player.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
When we signed Young we didn't have the farm system we have now
And so it looked like we were going to have to maintain a high payroll to have competitive teams. But now that our rebuilt farm system is paying off in the form of good young talented pre arbitration players our payroll isn’t going to be high no matter what we do. How is it that hard to get it through your head.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
No you don't
Not if you want to be a good team. You don’t spend big amounts on mid rotation starters. That’s in essence what we did with Millwood and Padilla. That’s been a major success.
And yes those guys are at best #2 starters, but are much more toward #3-#4 types. Don’t pay 10+ a year for midrotation guys. Pay 15+ for #1’s but don’t pay for mediocre players.
And you certainly don't pay that kind of money...
unless you already have a large part of your rotation set. Its OK to spend big bucks on a guy or two to round out a homegrown staff, but building a whole staff that way is absurd. THAT is the mistake they have made in the past, and that’s the mistake they are steering clear of these days.
Taking a high dollar flyer on spares like Meche and Lilly in hopes they will career still doesn’t fix our staff until more arms are in place.
the end of the rotation starter
is always over valued in FA. Always. Pay for studs in FA. they might work out. Ignore the mid tier all together. Play with some reclamation projects, they can sometimes work out.
But that's a philosophy that ended
up with them giving up 967 runs and wasting a season when the offense scored 901 runs.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Hindman's speculation
that the team is not giving a lot of innings to Eyre because they have already pretty much decided to send him down is a head-scratcher to me. I have had the habit, probably erroneously, of putting players up against each other this spring in terms of roster spots (Turnbow/Donnelly, Eyre/Mad Dog, and to a lesser extent Nippert/Rupe) like it’s a zero sum game, but if the team really is poised to take Madrigal and send Eyre down to OKC to start the year, I really can’t understand why. They both have two options remaining, but whereas Madrigal could really benefit from more time in AAA because of his relative lack of pitching experience, Eyre is a 31 year old veteran who has looked very good this spring. It would seem like an obvious choice to me.
Also, I have been pretty vocal (or whatever the online equivalent to vocal is) about my concern regarding Guardardo’s health and effectiveness this year, but he sure looked good last night. I just hope we can stash Gobble in AAA to start the year. As Zywica said, his April 3rd opt out date is moot if he doesn’t have any other appealing options.
Eyre is coming off
of TJ surgery and they may want to take it slow with him. Madrigal is healthy and can pitch on back-to-back nights. Let Eyre go to OKC and prove he can do the same.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Eyre
Madrigal has more ML time than Eyre does though and isn’t coming off a serious arm injury. Between the two I would definitely want to send Eyre down and let him make sure hes healthy and ready to go. Once he is then you can simply swap them out if you so choose.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Nippert
has anyone heard/read an update on his health? The only way moving Benson to the rotation makes sense is if they want Feldman to be the long man (and even then it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense). If Benson is really an option, why isn’t he starting games this late in ST instead of Doug Mathis?
Uhm
Hicks:
Then we have two kids [Derek Holland and Neftali Feliz] that could be knocking on our door this season, maybe even by the first of June.
Really? Wont terrible things have to happen for one of them to come up that soon?
When I see a solar eclipse I think "oh no, is the moon eating the sun?"
No.
We have a gaggle of shitty players battling it out. The fact that Benson is being considered is proof enough of that. Plus our pitchers are injured all the time.
It doesn’t seem too far-fetched at all.
by brettgardner on Mar 26, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
Remember Tommy Hunter came up for awhile last summer…
by FuturePants on Mar 26, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
That early.....probably
Personally I don’t want to see Holland or Feliz before the ASB. But I could see a scenario where Holland absolutely dominates the first two months in OKC and say Harrison struggles a bit and he gets called up.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I think
we should all just sit back and watch how the season goes. There’s no point in making statements like that right now (talking about Hicks).
Hicks sounds like
he’s just parroting what his hired help has told him about the possibilities and likelihoods.
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still
you would think by now a shrewn businessman like Hicks would know a thing or two about managing expectations.
That, however,
would conflict with the need to stoke one’s own ego and appear knowledgeable about baseball. I also think he tries to be encouraging to the fanbase with stuff like that.
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Which is fine by me.
Do you really want Hicks thinking for himself about roster and on-the-field decisions?
What happens if Holland and/or Feliz aren't ready next year?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Having seen Holland pitch, I'm quite sure he'll be ready by next year.
I can already tell you that he doesn’t get rattled by errors like Padilla does, or at least he didn’t when I saw him pitch.
you'll be happy
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 26, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
sweet dreams
I had a dream last night that the Rangers signed him to a 4 year, $30 million deal that locked him up through 2013, and I remember in the dream being confused that they didn’t buy out any free agent years.
I think its pretty weird that you are dreaming about baseball contract negotiations but I think even weirder that you are dreaming about analyzing baseball contract negotiations. Congratulations!
yeah
i have dreamt about game outcomes, perhaps even occasionally draft outcomes, but never contract negotiation outcomes. that is a new…not “low”, but it’s a new something.
It's a lawyer thing
Keith Law on Greg Golson, "He's similiar to Cameron and Hunter in that all three are black."
Really?
I’m a lawyer and I have zombie dreams quite often. It ends up being pretty awesome, if I do say so.
by FuturePants on Mar 26, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
left 4 dead style? lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 26, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Funny thing about zombies
I don’t know whether I should admire them for the single-mindedness and absolute determination in pursuit of their goals, or laugh at them for being ugly
by Telegraph on Mar 26, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
I don’t think we should give Hamilton a nice extension when it only buys out arb. years.
For some reason, I think 6/48M is more than fair. Especially for a 27 year old player.
Hamilton
The thing is you have to make it worth it to him to buy out his FA years. Right now he would be a FA at 32 years old and could still get that 4 or 5 year deal even with his past history barring some serious injury. Buying out some FA years pushes him to 33 and 34 years old when hes a FA and with that past of his I doubt teams will want to lock him up to almost 40 years old.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
i honestly think
this is a rare case where signing any sort of new contract doesn’t make a ton of sense for either party. all the people who were so concerned about his “drug-addled” body last year now want to commit 50+ million to him this offseason? where did those concerns go? and as steve said above, why would Hamilton want to have any years bought out at the back end? There is a pretty big difference in giving a long term deal to a 32 year old and a 34 year old.
all the people who were so concerned about his "drug-addled" body last year now want to commit 50+ million to him this offseason?
Jon Daniels was obviously not one of them or else he wouldn’t have traded for him. And I think everyone wanted to see how he’d hold up last year. At this point I don’t think there’s any reason to think he’s at more risk for an injury then any one else.
by slimshadty12 on Mar 26, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
i think the injury risk
from being something that was completely overblown last offseason to something that people probably do not think about enough currently. I will be much more at ease when his workload consists of 120-130 games in RF and the rest of his healthy days at DH.
Let’s not slay the golden goose here.
bullshit
if JD wasnt worried about it – or if it wasnt a concern or even at least brought up then im on the fire JD bandwagon
and i feel pretty confident it was considered at the point intime
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 26, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
JD's comments at the time were that...
OF COURSE they considered his health but that they were completely confident that he was healthy and ready to go for the whole season.
by slimshadty12 on Mar 27, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
If he goes to arbitration, he’s probably getting $30 million, total, for 2010-12. That may be low.
So if you are buying out his two arbitration years for $18 million total, that seems pretty low.
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 26, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah
I think 6/48 is a lower bound, and probably roughly what the Rangers offered. But it is a lot closer to what would actually happen than the 5/60 type deals some people mention occasionally.
I think the higher realistic possibility would be 5/45 or 6/60. Most likely they’ll settle on something between those, maybe with a club option or something.
Like Adam said
If hes getting 30 million in arbitration why would 30 million for two FA years be too far out there?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I think the rangers know
A long term deal is as valuable to Hammy as it is to the Rangers. He’ll give up something to offset the year-to-year risk. He has risks associated with him that other names (Pedroia, Youklis) don’t have, and is older. Those numbers are comparable to what they got.
Anyway, I don’t doubt 30+30 is unrealistic – I said 6/60 is my upper reasonable bound.
But with 6/60 he would be making the same in his FA as he does in arbitration
He is gonna want a raise. 30 million in arbitration equates to 10 mil per year. Hes not gonna take 10 mil per in FA if thats what he got in arbitration.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
If I'm not mistaken
and I may be, but that also includes one pre-arb year.
Here is roughly what he’d make off contract:
2009: pre-arb ~400k
2010-2012: arbitration- $35M? Maybe something like 7 / 12/ 16 ?
2013-2014: free agency @ 32/33 y.o. Maybe he gets $15/year long term, more if he really is a superstar and healthy
So that adds up to $65 in a realistic scenario. But the Rangers should get some discount for taking on all of that pre-free agency risk that currently lies with Hamilton. I think 6/$55 is fair.
Ok
Im going off a deal that doesn’t kick in until next season.
Even still though if you are buying out one of his FA years I highly doubt you will be able to do it for less than what he made in his arbitration years. So if for instance in your example his last arbitration year he gets 16 mil I doubt he would accpet a deal where he makes 15 mil that first FA year. Most likely it will have to be as much if not more than his arbitration years.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
the problem
is that Hamilton isn’t going to want to give up any FA years unless hes getting majorly compensated for them. Hes not a normal timeline player. His one shot at a big money FA contract comes after his last arbitration year.
I think we would have to do somewhere approaching 20 million/year to get his FA years right now.
Of course that is an issue
But it is a lot more complicated than that.
The problem is that by not signing a long-term deal, Hamilton will shoulder ALL of the risk here – if Hamilton gets seriously injured this season his career MLB earnings would be about $1 million or so, plus his bonus that he blew away. While that may seem like a lot of money, it really isn’t when you consider he’d be 29 with a family and no real career prospects going forward. A long-term deal really is a great thing for a player early on.
The question really is whether he takes a guaranteed $50 million dollars now or take a risk, maybe earning nothing but maybe earning over $100 million long term. That amounts to a personal thing, but it isn’t as cut and dry as you say. Sure there is a real long-term risk regarding his age, but there is another significant risk by saying no.
The third option – the Rangers give him a long-term deal that doesn’t have a FA year – just doesn’t make any sense. Turning projected dollars into guaranteed dollars has a real cost associated with it, and they must receive something in return.
I don't
In a perfect world, he will command that 30M with a low 18M extension after that. Injuries, fluke season (which I seriously doubt it was), and etc. can happen where a guaranteed contract now is worth it. He went through a whole lot in his lifetime. He doesn’t seem to be the type of person that will say, “48M is good but I think I should get 60M”. I think he thinks he’s fortunate to get another opportunity and excel in it.
I think...
….those last two sentences were made through rose colored glasses.
Even if he really is “that kind of guy”, he isn’t going to give up $12 million dollars if he can get them. Not because he’s greedy….just because it’s possibly more reasonable for me to believe that he isn’t going to give the Rangers a discount because he’s “happy to get another opportunity.”
We all need to remember that he wasn’t an NRI reclamation project, and if he wasn’t playing here, he was going to be playing somewhere. You don’t trade off the potential of Edinson as a strong ML starter for a guy you don’t anticipate to be pretty damn good and one that you will have to pay.
I promise that Daniel’s knew his age and history before pulling the trigger on that deal….and the ramifications of that decision when he made it. Hamilton isn’t from the DR, so I don’t think they were fooled by some fake birth certificate.
He is going to be paid more than 60, IF they can work out a deal acceptable to both sides. The length? Not sure, but if they get a FA year out of him, you are looking at near Hanley Ramirez money. This, I am almost certain of.
I miss 1989. I miss 1996. Please make me miss another season in 2008.
There is no way I'd sign him long term
without buying FA years. Its probably worth the small premium to go to arb every year to avoid any injury risk.
"The idea that the Rangers are going to be a solid contender for a number of years is a fantasy." - Adam J. Morris
Concur...
if you can’t buy out at least 1 year of FA then just let him go to arbitration the next few years.
An extra couple million would be worth it just in case he’s injured.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I took them off the front page
That’s why I used FanShots…someone on the SBN listserv mentioned that that was what they do with excess GDTs, which made sense to me.
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 26, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Great idea
I hated how, during the season, the front page was dominated by GDTs knocking other posts off the page.
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So you choose which of your fanshot's go to the fanshot's page
and which disappear forever?
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
They haven't disappeared
they are still down there in the fanshots.
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I know those two are,
But ‘Brendan Donnelly released’, for example, won’t be.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
lol
I’m not going to start anything. I’m not going to create anything. I don’t know anything. I didn’t see anything. I didn’t hear anything."
Ron Washington
on the possibility of Andruw Jones playing first base. Jones briefly practiced at first while Washington was at a minor league game. Washington said the Rangers haven’t discussed Jones playing first.
I know it’s nothing but my head would effn explode if they ran him out to first…
My cool sig.
Jones at first, Holland and Feliz in the rotation in June, space monkeys flying out of my ass.
TA DA!
When I see a solar eclipse I think "oh no, is the moon eating the sun?"
by Pocket Ninja on Mar 26, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
if that actually happened...
washington should be fired on the spot, and so should everyone that allowed him to do it.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
yuuuuup
if your gonna play a bench guy at 1b, catt.
otherwise you have (on your 25 man already) catt, blalock, davis, salty who can all play 1B
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 26, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
This puts more credence in the thought that Blalock may be traded
Hank is the backup 1B. If they were planning on trading Hank and keeping Jones wouldn’t it be smart to have him try 1B a little so when Davis needs a day off or is sat against a tough lefty?
Not saying I like the idea but thats probably the thought process.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
If they keep Cat he can play 1B
Keith Law on Greg Golson, "He's similiar to Cameron and Hunter in that all three are black."
hell no that isn't their thought process
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Mar 26, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Then what is oh wise one
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I have no idea, sarcasmo
But I know what it isn’t. Why in all hell would they plan on playing Jones at first for even an inning?
You don’t really think that they think that do you?
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Mar 26, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Just throwing out ideas
Id love to hear yours? Why do you think they played him at 1B?
My scenario makes some sense at least. If they trade Blalock and want to get more RH especially against LHP then you could play Jones at 1B, Cruz at DH, and Byrd in CF leaving only Hamilton and Murphy as LH batters against LHP.
Will it ever happen….god I hope not. But it is a possibility
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
So you're down with Jones at 1B..
but you cringe at the horror of Cruz in LF? Bizarre….
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 26, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't want either
I am just trying to figure out the thought process behind playing a guy who has always played CF 1B. Having Cruz play LF is a lot more plausible and understandable.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
good to know
my faith in humanity (or at least in large steve) has been somewhat restored.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 26, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
x
maybe it’s simply a guy who wants to make a major league team trying to show that he can play a new position. There sure is a lot of freaking out going on about Jones.
"A good start would be not giving up 900 runs again." -Jon Daniels
by Randy Richardson on Mar 26, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
it's not so much freaking out as it is that we've seen all this before
the spring training infatuation with a washed up make good player that causes someone valuable to lose a roster / 40 man spot.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
well,
if Jones makes the team as a RH DH and 4th OF, the Rangers will likely have to dump Cat to make room for him.
"A good start would be not giving up 900 runs again." -Jon Daniels
by Randy Richardson on Mar 26, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
dumping cat
you’d think wouldn’t you? but i don’t see hicks eating his salary
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
x
I should have said 5th OF. If they don’t get rid of Cat, they’ll have to trade Cruz, Byrd, or Murphy. Cat is a perfect candidate to be released. Even if Cat has a great year as a Ranger in ‘09, there’s zero chance the Rangers or any other club will want to pay him $6 million in ‘10. He can’t rebuild his value, so if he doesn’t fit a need for the club, they might as well cut bait.
"A good start would be not giving up 900 runs again." -Jon Daniels
by Randy Richardson on Mar 26, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
i don’t think you are getting the point. for them to cut bait hicks has to sign off paying the rest of his salary for the season. that’s not likely going to happen.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Hick's is already
obligated to pay Cat’s contract. It’s a sunk cost – I think both Hicks and I understand that concept.
"A good start would be not giving up 900 runs again." -Jon Daniels
by Randy Richardson on Mar 26, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
He pays the rest of that salary
whether Cat is here or sitting at home.
The only financial impact to sending Cat home is the half million to Andruw.
"The idea that the Rangers are going to be a solid contender for a number of years is a fantasy." - Adam J. Morris
right
but do you see hicks paying someone not to play?
nothing he’s done has given me any indication he’d do that.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
He's done that plenty of times.
Ben Broussard last year was the most recent one I remember. They owed him like 3 million.
"The idea that the Rangers are going to be a solid contender for a number of years is a fantasy." - Adam J. Morris
also,
ARod and Phil Nevin, I’m sure there are more.
"A good start would be not giving up 900 runs again." -Jon Daniels
by Randy Richardson on Mar 26, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
arod was traded so was nevin
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Thanks
you said:
but do you see hicks paying someone not to play?
While they were both traded, not released, Hicks payed them millions of dollars to play not for the Rangers but another team. It’s not the same as Cat’s situation but Hicks has set a precedent for eating salaries and moving on.
"A good start would be not giving up 900 runs again." -Jon Daniels
by Randy Richardson on Mar 26, 2009 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
he traded them and cash and got something in return.
and using arod as an example just shows how much of an idiot he is.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
OK
We’ll just stick with the Broussard example. Within the last 12 months the Rangers have done the exact thing that you can’t imagine them ever doing.
"A good start would be not giving up 900 runs again." -Jon Daniels
by Randy Richardson on Mar 26, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
i had honestly wiped all memory of broussard from my mind….such a horrible experience.
i will still be very shocked if cat is outright released.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
The thing is, when you release a player
under contract, all pay becomes immediately due. If he is on the team, he is paid regular payroll, just like anyones else. That expense is easily covered by gate receipt & concessions, etc. on a weekly basis.
If he is cut, Hicks writes a check for 6mil that day…and given the supposed cash-flow issues he faces, I don’t know about that option.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
do you have a link?
I’ve never read anything about a team having to pay all the remaining salary immediately. I tried, unsuccessfully, to Google it and skimmed the CBA, but couldn’t find any reference to this.
"A good start would be not giving up 900 runs again." -Jon Daniels
by Randy Richardson on Mar 26, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, Rodney
Like Randy, I never heard that before either.
Where did you read that? That is interesting.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Mar 26, 2009 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you're right about that
though I can’t prove it and don’t know where I’ve heard it before.
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I looked, I really did.
20 minutes later…nothing, and I have real work to do today. However, I did find something neat, here.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Problem is...
…Jones has been taking balls at first base. This means Davis will get squeezed out, I promise.
No more than Cat can
squeeze him out since he has taken balls at 1B.
"The idea that the Rangers are going to be a solid contender for a number of years is a fantasy." - Adam J. Morris
Dunno
Washington seems to be more in love with Jones than Catalonotto.
by FuturePants on Mar 27, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Shysterball has an interesting point on team values
Craig Calcaterra over at Shysterball:
And he’s probably right about that. One of the things that no one in baseball really wants to talk about is that it is almost inescapable that franchise values are on the decline. How can they not be? So much of the ownership of a team is tied up in real estate, be it from owning or at least profiting from stadiums and parking garages or from holding interests in commercial development around ballparks. More importantly, many baseball owners themselves are real estate guys first — think Lew Wolff — and have taken baths in the current economy.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/shysterball/article/own-a-piece-of-the-rangers/
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
i was always under the impression
that hicks in part paid for the team b/c of the surrounding real estate. also i was under the impression that he “owned” victory park (the area btwn TBIA and jerryworld)
right?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 26, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
its not victory park I don't think
Thats Dallas. Its Glorypark. And it has probably taken a hit with the recent economy. Probably will still get built but may take longer.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
glory park
that right
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 26, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Glory Park
My friend is a politician for the city of Arlington and he sez: Glory Park is on indefinite hold because Hicks and Jones couldn’t get the required number of tenant commits so the bank won’t fund the project.
by FuturePants on Mar 26, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Every time I hear "glory park," I think of a glory hole
A glory hole might be a good way to get people to come to the ballpark, though…
the first part
i don’t think is an accurate implication. real estate over the course of a long period of time is steady and growing and i bet land around a ballpark is less prone to collapse than most. your franchise’s real estate value is probably just tied to how well your team is doing more than anything else.
Ceterum censeo Cat esse delendam - Cahill the Elder
Real Estate in the Dallas area is different than the rest of the country
They are still building houses in my neighborhood while pretty much the rest of the country wants to tear down their houses. We are very lucky to live in an area (Texas) that isn’t hard hit up like the rest of the country. I don’t think Hick’s ownership of real estate in North Texas has taken a big hit over the last year like some other owners might have.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Mar 26, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Wieters and Price
apparently could both use some more time (probably about a month and a half) in the minors.
But not Elvis.
I find that funny.
saw today about price, which surprised me some since he was with the team at the end of last season.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Whats TBs rotation though
Shields, Garza, Kazmir, Jackson, Sonnanstine?
While price is better than most if not all of those guys that rotation isn’t exactly mincemeat. They will win with what they already have. Im sure if they get off to a bad start they will bring him up but otherwise try and squeeze that extra year of control out of him.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Jackson was traded to Detroit...
It’s Jeff Niemann and Jason Hammel fighting it out for the 5th spot.
by slimshadty12 on Mar 26, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Ah ok
Well then I don’t know what they are doing other than trying to get that extra year of control out of him.
But of course we shouldn’t worry about that with Elvis.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
yup and price is a better option than either
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
I can see why they are doing that though
See what they have in those guys and maybe you can work out a good trade. While you do that, you have Price basically warming up in the minors and you save some service time with him.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
The limiting innings thing is big
You don’t want him to jump from the 130-something innings he pitched last year to 200 or so this year unless you want him hurt next year. In the minors, it’s easier to limit his workload without overtaxing the major-league bullpen in the process. then they can bring him up later, have him end up at 160-ish innings total and life is good.
I haven't looked at TBs schedule
But if he’s their “5th starter” and can be skipped a few times early in the year wouldn’t that keep his innings down also?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I looked at it yesterday.
I believe I figured out the first three weeks and four days of the season they would only need one start from a 5th man.
But the entirety of DRays Bay contends (with Pitch F/X support) this is more developmental than anything, and innings and control are just scrumptious icing on the cake.
They could go almost four weeks with only needing one start from a 5th man.
Price has some issues with his change up (as well as his slider), and, of course, they would maintain an extra year of control on him. That’s not a big deal.
The Orioles, meanwhile, will not be in contention most likely and have no reason not to exercise an extra year of control on Matt Wieters.
Price is a whole other story...
They have 2 guys they need to give a shot for the 5th spot and they think that Price needs to practice his change in the minors and limit his innings so that he can finish the season under 150-170 or so innings. As for Weiters, they want to squeeze that extra year out of him by limiting his service time.
The way things played out, we’re kind of forced to start Andrus. But again, apparently he can handle it otherwise they wouldn’t have thrown him into the fire.
by slimshadty12 on Mar 26, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
in would contest two things here
1. Price is so far beyond the two guys competing for the 5th starter spot that it is truly ridiculous. they can say all the right things about how they know he is really good, but they want him to hone his change up so he can be great, etc, but the truth is they are not breaking camp with their best 25 guys, and in a division as competitive as the AL East, that can be a make/break decision.
2. We are not at all forced to start the year with Andrus. We have a guy in Vizquel who is the consummate professional. Whereas Price and Wieters have truly dominated the upper levels (and every professional level they have seen, for that matter) Elvis is just a really toolsy kid who is advanced for his age. If they had started him in AAA to start the year, no one would have batted an eye.
but what if their goal IS to keep his IP down
would they rather have to shut him down at the end of the year/skip starts throughout the year or have him start the year in the minors and limit his IP/bring him up later on? i mean, say they end up with 4 starts from their 5th starter the first 6 weeks of the season…and are able to limit his IP is that a bad thing?
(playing devils advocate here a little)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 26, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
he's still pitching in the minors
he’s not sitting on his ass
Ceterum censeo Cat esse delendam - Cahill the Elder
but its a win-win for TB to have him start in the minors
limit his IP AND limit his service time
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 26, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
uhh
you dont have him start games
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 26, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Im sure thats how they will rationalize it
But in reality the reason is the service time. Its smart to be worried about things like that though
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
if you want to limit IP, you would start him in the majors
to take advantage of the lesser number of starts
Ceterum censeo Cat esse delendam - Cahill the Elder
but if you start him in the minors
you limit IP and limit service time, if hes not going to pitch much anyway, why not take the extra YEAR of team control?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 26, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
i guess i can see your point
following the logic that even if he has pitched five lights out innings on only 60-70 pitches in a minor league game, they can take him out of the game and let other guys go the rest of the way, whereas they would never risk losing a major league game and overusing their major league bullpen by doing that. Is that correct?
I agree to an extent wtih your first point...
but this is the right move for a couple reasons. I believe Hammels and Niemann are out of options (not 100% certain). You’d like to maximize your return for those guys instead of just losing them. Secondly they are extending Price’s service time and limiting his innings this year. Not a terrible idea.
As for Andrus, Vizquel was here as insurance in case Andrus bombed in ST giving them no choice but to send him down, which he didn’t. The last thing the Rangers wanted to do was move Young over for Andrus and then start the season without him. So it’s a little different situation then Weiters and Price.
by slimshadty12 on Mar 27, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that's a blessing
I think JD can turn to Elvis and say, “take some time in the minors to perfect your game”. He can say if guys like Price and Wieters are being sent down, it shouldn’t be looked as a negative.
Its monetary
Weiters and Price are high end studs. the extra year of team control for them is a major deal. Elvis doesn’t profile as that level of player so the extra year of him is less of a major concern.
I think few people have doubts as to either Price’s or Weiter’s ability to play in the MLB right now.
Guys who make the major leagues as 20 year olds are going to be worth good money
If a guy is a service time FA at 26 years old he is going to get a good contract. because that means he has been a starter since 20 years old and is just entering the prime of his career. He may not make the money ARod or Weiters or Sabathia or Price but to think he won’t be due a big contract is crazy.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Theres different levels of contracts.
Weiters and Price are viewed as potential superstar players. Andrus is veiwed more as a good solid MLB player, to maybe all star level. Its the difference of a 15+ million dollar a year deal and a cornerstone level player for a franchise vs someone more in the 10 million or less range and is a very nice part.
Theres just a massive difference between one more year of a superstar vs one more year of a good player. That’s all I’m saying here.
So if Andrus is "only a 10 million dollar player"
Wouldn’t you still want an extra year before having to pay that type of money?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
But its not as big of a deal
That’s the point. there are many more very good players than there are superstar players.
The very good guys are accessory pieces to a team as opposed to the main piece of a team.
That's dumb
You would think it’s the other way around. You’d less likely want to piss off your superstar and do that. You’d control him an extra year but he’ll definitely remember that you cost him having 15M+.
A potentially gold glove SS at 26 years old whos gonna make 10 million dollars a year is not an accessory
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Compared to
a 28 year old SS/GG catcher or a bonafide #1 starter?
Yeah he is. And the problem is the superstar is going to want the superstar contract, usually in the superstar city.
Weiters and Price, to use examples, aren’t very likely to resign with their drafting teams. They will be the darlings of everyone’s ball. If Andrus’s bat finishes the way its profiling, hes just not in that class of players who the big boys are going to break themselves bidding over, so theres a chance he actually stays here or with a team other than the biggest money, highest profile teams.
More with Hicks from Durrett on the DMN blog
Fans want to know if Tom Hicks will be willing to go and grab some big veteran guys to go with these younger players and complete the team if necessary?
It’s not a financial consideration. Tom Hicks is not going to sign a 7- or 8-year contract to any team period. I don’t believe in it. I don’t think that works.
What about four or five years?
Yes. We’d be willing to do that for the right guy. We were willing to spend money on Ben Sheets. We’ll spend whatever we have to on veterans, but the veteran you spend more for has to be a better value than one of the younger kids. And we’ll have the financial flexibility to do that going forward. If we have the right veteran to spend money for, we’ll do it. But it has to be the right guy. We’d do something with Sheets that would be subject to performance the first year and locks into big money after that if he proves himself. We would pursue that very diligently.
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/03/more-from-rangers-owner-tom-hicks.html
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What veterans do we need though
Starting pitching is all I can think of and next winter if we have more than one veteran in the rotation we are simply pushing talented young guys out. I don’t think thats how we want to go.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I wouldn't worry about pushing youngsters out
They’re not going to sign a bunch of veteran pitchers just for the sake of doing so. They’ll sign as they perceive the need, and the youngsters themselves will have to determine that. I believe Hicks will pay for what’s needed, but he is certainly going to balk at signing any more than that.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
The need
The need is not for more than one veteran though. With Harrison, McCarthy, Holland, and Feliz needing spots in the rotation that only opens one spot. Thats not to mention Feldman who is gonna be squeezed out, Hurley who will be rehabbing and may come back needing a spot, Hunter if hes not converted to reliever yet, Kiker who should be knocking on the door soon, Poveda same as Kiker.
If you keep signing veterans and holding your young guys down its gonna create a backlog and then you do something stupid like trade a bunch of them away.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Ok, but you're assuming
there are no setbacks in development for those guys, AND you’re for some reason assuming that the Rangers are going to go out and sign two veteran starting pitchers (if they don’t trade for one instead). Why are you assuming they’d sign two pitchers, unless one is just an NRI insurance-type signing? Do you really think Hicks is going to like spending free agent money on a guy no better than the options you mentioned above?
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
x
And minus Millwood and Padilla, do we even have a rotation? Even assuming Feliz and Holland can start April, 2010, there is no way we carry a season with all the youngsters – ignoring record, it is just unlikely that group can pitch a whole season.
by FuturePants on Mar 26, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Millwood or Padilla
For one next years FA crop is very thin. Lackey and Harden are the only guys i would target. We don’t need to get middle of the rotation guys if we go out and get someone it needs to be a TOR starter. If both Lackey and Harden ink extensions like i believe they will then we should bring back either Millwood or Padilla. But only one of them.
And yes I am assuming their development goes smoothly. But if it doesn’t we have enough guys to hold the fort if they need an extra month or two. And if it gets so bad then we can turn around and go get some middle of the road guy but that isn’t who we should be targetting from the get go.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
with the depth of prospects we have I am a little more leniant on injury history
As long as when healthy they are lights out
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I don't know if Lackey is Chan Ho ver. 2.0
1: Lackey is good, at least right now
2: Lackey is good in the AL
by FuturePants on Mar 26, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Lackey puts up good, not great, numbers in Angel Stadium
But that marine layer really knocks down fly balls at night. His pitching line in Arlington isn’t particularly good… not as bad as his line in Fenway, but still. If you go to his baseball-reference page and look at splits, and look at his performance in ballparks within the weather influence of the Pacific Ocean… that helps his stats quite a bit. Chan Ho got a lot of help from Dodger Stadium.
If the Angels re-sign him, he’ll probably continue to be successful. If the Rangers sign him for what it would likely cost to get him, I see Chan Ho all over again.
You can have it both ways
Is he going to continue to be good or become CHoP?
Keith Law on Greg Golson, "He's similiar to Cameron and Hunter in that all three are black."
Can't not can
Keith Law on Greg Golson, "He's similiar to Cameron and Hunter in that all three are black."
If he stays with the Angels, he'll continue to have good numbers
Similarly, if Chan Ho had re-signed with the Dodgers, he probably would have put up decent/good numbers there, too.
So
Pacific Coast he’s John Lackey. Anywhere else he goes off a cliff and becomes Chan Ho Park? That is just a tiny bit extreme. Like Millwood said, nobody has to pitch great in Arlington; you just have to pitch better than the other dude.
Quesiton shouldn’t be his bare numbers in Arlington, but how they stack up against averages per year in Arlington; league-wide.
Lackey and Ho are two different animals
Ho pitched in an extreme pitchers park and had bad #’s everywhere else. Lackey not so much.
Keith Law on Greg Golson, "He's similiar to Cameron and Hunter in that all three are black."
Yep.
I would expect a trade sometime in the near future involving some of our young dudes. It would be a veteran (good) starting pitcher for a few of our pitching prospects.
1) Solves the #1 starter issue and relieves the Rangers of having make weird decisions in free agency or on Padilla/Millwood
2) Helps solve some of the 40 man roster issues we are all seeing on the horizon.
Don’t know who, what, when, but I believe that our current situation has all the earmarks of a big trade for a strong veteran starter by the end of the year.
I miss 1989. I miss 1996. Please make me miss another season in 2008.
This
is absolute bullshit.
He didn’t go after Lilly (4 years) or Meche (5 years) when they were available before 2007.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Because they both suck
Hindsight is a real bitch you know that
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
i think kc got a decent deal on meche. or at least it turned out to be one, at the time i thought it was stupid
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
everyone thought it was horrible at the time
and his 107 era+ last year didnt help
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 26, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
i'd take that and his contract over lets say.. padilla.
and if im remembering right his contract (per year not length) is similar.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
No, they don't bigsteve.
Meche & Lilly have both pitched very well.
If Hicks signs either one of those pitchers, we also don’t feel compelled to deal Danks for the garbage in somebody else’s front yard.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Good grief
When Meche was signed he was coming off several years of uninspiring ERAs and even less inspiring peripheral stats, and KC was panned widely for signing him to such a huge contract. Likewise, Lilly was seen as average at best and vastly overpaid. Hindsight is your specialty.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Yep
a 99 ERA+ his last year in Seattle. Lilly had a 106 ERA+ his last year in Toronto.
But of course it was obvious both guys would jump to mid 120’s ERA+ in 2007 right? I mean don’t we all have the crystal ball Josey does.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
And look at Lilly since then
He had a good 2007, but then came back down to earth quite a bit last year. Put him in Arlington and we might be lucky to get 2006 Millwood/Padilla production out of him. I’m not exactly crying that we don’t have another LAIE on the decline signed to a large contract.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Nice try, Gdawg
Lilly had 24 of 34 starts with Game Scores of 50+ in 2008.
17-9, 204 IPs.
It would have required the Rangers to have a $ 79 million payroll which was still below expectations given their market-size (5th highest).
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
A slightly above average pitcher
That’s all Lilly is. He did pretty well in a division that featured one 1 team that he had to pitch about in the top half of the league in offense, and two teams in the bottom third of offense.
Just count me as a very big MEH on Lilly. You don’t pay for an averagish pitcher. If you can’t produce the mid to back rotation starters out of your minors your better off losing and getting better draft picks.
The middle of the FA pool is where you go to produce mediocre teams for ever.
And he did all that
in the national league, in a weak division no less. Do you really think he would pitch that well in Arlington? He wasn’t that good before when he was in the AL.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Lilly
He moved from the A.L. to the N.L., and started put up FIPs in the low-4s instead of in the high-4s, the way he did in the A.L.
If he’s a Ranger, he’s putting up an ERA around 5.00, and we’re bitching about what a waste of money he is.
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 26, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Especially Josey
Lilly would then be on his list of egregious errors for Daniels.
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No, Adam
what would have happened is that your boy, JD would not have felt compelled to trade Danks for McCarthy because the rotation would not be a starting pitcher short.
What would have also happened is that this team would not have given up 967 runs in 2008 either.
What would have also happened is this bullpen would not have shattered and rendered useless because it would have a pair of starters who could go deep into games.
What would have also happened is that this team would have had a damn good chance of winning 90+ games with an offense that scored 901 runs.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
No, that wouldn't have happened
because Lilly would be no better than Millwood or Padilla as a Ranger, maybe worse.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Okay
So we should have signed Ted Lilly, not because he’s good, but because if we had had him we wouldn’t have made the Danks trade?
That’s the logic?
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 26, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Adam,
If you will recall this team had a long flirtation with Barry Zito because the team felt like they needed another starting pitcher, correct?
Zito was never, ever going to come here and that started to crystallize in mid December, correct?
We’ve been told that JD traded Danks for McCarthy because he felt like McCarthy was closer to being a starter than Danks, correct?
If Ted Lilly is here, we’re not a starting pitcher short going into the season and the gm doesn’t have to feel compelled to make a trade for a starting pitcher who is closer to The Show than he felt Danks was, correct?
It’s very simple.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
It's also very simple
to know that Danks would NEVER be the pitcher he is today if he stayed on the Rangers.
but thats logical
look at his stats from the first year with the whitesox josey
also, realize that he wasnt good/any better than mccarthy until he learned the cutter, whichhe wouldnt have learned here
so whats the point?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 26, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Simple
that’s the problem, you try to reduce everything to these simple, black and white “truths” and the world just isn’t that simple. Daniels has made many mistakes, but that doesn’t mean he is a complete idiot for all time, forevermore not capable of crossing the street unaided. Hicks has been through changes in attitude from big spender to not going to spend on free agents to now what seems a more balanced view with Ryan and Daniels.
It’s easier to just categorize people and events into your simplistic world-view, but that doesn’t mean you are right. Your favorite western character was not so simple, but you can’t seem to give real life people the same consideration of depth, growth, change, etc. In the process you’ve turned yourself into the very kind of simple caricature that you try to paint Hicks and Daniels as.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
*
I love the psychological evaluations in this place.
Keep it simple st…, Tball.
I have real questions about Nolan now but he seems to have put a bridle on the stupidity of JD and the avalanche of incompetence so prevalant until his hire seems to have subsided.
Per Tom Hicks – F the greedy sack. He’s the biggest challenge this franchise needs to overcome and he cannot leave soon enough.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Again
everyone here hates Hicks, you are not unique in this. Everyone here would join the party if Hicks sold the team. Everyone here questions actions of the team every single day, you are not the lone wise man valiantly trying to stem the tide of knee pad wearing Daniels and Hicks jock washers. Your hatred of those men does not make you uniquely qualified to hold forth on the organization.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
WWND?
It’s all about Nolan — if you have a complaint about personnel moves or money spent — bitch about Nolan:
But Nolan has full control here, right? I know that he would come to you if you change managers or have to spend big bucks, but it’s his call, right?
Absolutely.
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/03/more-from-rangers-owner-tom-hicks.html
Meaning, if they cut payroll next year — NOLAN signed off on it. If they choose to make a trade or sign a player — NOLAN signed off on it.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 26, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Nolan doesn't control the checkbook, Diggler.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
What part of full control
do you misunderstand?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 26, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
x
We’ve been told that JD traded Danks for McCarthy because he felt like McCarthy was closer to being a starter than Danks, correct?
I’ve heard that Daniels traded Danks for McCarthy because the organization felt McCarthy would be the better pitcher.
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 26, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
if so
that really speaks to our ability to evaluate pitching talent.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
That's pretty silly.
You’re obviously using hindsight to make that judgment.
by brettgardner on Mar 26, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
It can't be used
To make a present-tense argument.
by brettgardner on Mar 26, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
That's what JD said when I asked the question at Newberg night...
His words were “more upside to McCarthy”
I'm not as connected with JD
as you are, Adam.
What I remember hearing at the time (it may have been spin) is that they felt McCarthy was closer to being ready for The Show than Danks.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
But better, obviously.
You can’t deny that that’s what they thought. It’s only logical.
by brettgardner on Mar 26, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
bg - A lot of the decisions that JD
was making after he took over (CYoung/AG disaster) and prior to 2007 were of the short-cut, win-now, this-is-my-stamp-on-the-team nature.
Lofton, Gagne, Sosa were brought here to help the team win in 2007 and it only makes sense that’s why McCarthy was brought here as well.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Signing Meche or Lilly
would have been short-cut, win-now moves.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Not at all, tball
There would have been a short term benefit in 2007 & 2008 but there would also be a long term benefit because one of them could have soaked up the IPs that will be missing when Padilla & Millwood are gone.
There’s also a helluva chance this thing doesn’t give up 967 runs if Danks & Lilly/Meche are in last year’s rotation.
This team is putting a lot of pressure on Holland & Feliz to be ready next year (how smart is that?) and there’s no real fall back position if they’re not ready.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Daniels/McCarthy
JD said at Newberg Night (the first one after the Danks/McCarthy deal) that they made the trade for two reasons:
1. The powers that be who evaluate talent thought McCarthy was more ready for the majors.
2. They also thought McCarthy had the higher upside overall, and would be the better pitcher long-term.
So they saw it as a better move for both the short and long-term.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
Both parties were correct
gracias, Cook.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
and thinking logically, the White Sox had a completely different opinion
The White Sox were right, they did a better job in evaluating the talent.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
They were wise to teach Danks a cutter
Too bad Mark Connor <<< Don Cooper.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Mar 26, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
The White Sox also did a better job than Baseball America, as well
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Mar 26, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
You can't win every battle
But, as Brian says, it was certainly no minority opinion that McCarthy would be better than Danks.
Looking back is exceedingly easy. At the time, the popular opinion was wait-and-see. Well, now we have a pretty good starter vs. a guy who’s been more than decent in very limited innings. I guess you could put a stamp on it if you want.
As I see it, maybe Chicago was a thousand times better at evaluation than we were, or maybe we just got extremely unlucky with a guy who had no injury history suddenly becoming exceedingly brittle.
by brettgardner on Mar 26, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
And hopefully
this team more specifically JD, have learned to quit trying to take short-cuts.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Hopefully.
I do agree that the first 18 or so months of JD’s tenure did seem a bit of a schism between long-term collection and short-term risks. It seems to have evaporated of late, thankfully—unless you throw in the list of NRIs.
by brettgardner on Mar 26, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Which is one of the reasons why I don't understand
the infatuation with AJones.
What’s the ultimate upside? He hits 25 bombs for a .500 team, kicks up his market- value and goes to another team next year.
How does that help the Rangers in the long-term?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Agree with you here
Jones is a waste of time to me, because even if he does that well (highly doubtful) he still wouldn’t have any trade value to speak of, no one is going to trust the he’ll keep that up.
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Concur...
If no team would give up anything of value for Board Game last year have having the kind of season he did then I can’t see anyone giving up a decent prospect for Jones even if he comes back and does well.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Who says we can't find common ground?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Didn't
Bradley also stub his toe or something similar as the dead line was approaching.
And it might not be an issue of not giving up anything of value, but nothing of as much value as the 1 or 2 high draft picks that we figured to get for offering him arbitration if he left. Plus I also think we sorta wanted to keep him around.
Hicks and Daniels are not actual, 3 dimensional people
they are only 2 dimensional characters in Josey’s never ending self-aggrandizement drama.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
No, because Lilly is good,
is underpriced given his performance at Wrigley, in shape, hasn’t been hurt and didn’t require a committment longer than 4 years.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Ted Lilly at Rangers Ballpark in Arlington, career
6 games, 5 started, 1-3 record, 32.1 IP, 4.73 ERA, 29 hits, 17 R/ER, 6HR, 12 BB, 29K.
Sounds like someone I’d want to spend eight figures per year on to pitch half his games in Arlington.
Do those guys
really strike you as the type of player Hicks is talking about? When both of them were signed there was a lot of talk about how ridiculous their contracts were, not about why on earth Hicks hadn’t broken the bank for them. It’s funny how convenient your hindsight is in pushing your agenda.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
It's not hindsight, tball
I was all over this team to sign either one of those pitchers before the 2007 season.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
At those dollar amounts?
You would have squawked about Jonny Donuts throwing money at mediocre players just like you do every time Young’s name comes up. $55M for Meche was a huge gamble for KC, and would have meant the team was all in for trying to win now, when other days you’re hear complaining about how Daniels should have known they wouldn’t compete.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
As prolific a poster as you are
Then surely there is some record of you saying those things.
That’s the cool thing about internets and search engines and whatnot. You can look stuff up.
So prove it. Produce Walesian quotes where you were “all over this team” to sign those pitchers.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Mar 26, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
The best is I know his response to this
That he’s not going to waste time trying to disprove someone who doesn’t take his word for it.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Two things I have NEVER seen Josey do
Make a prediction of FUTURE events.
Back up or substantiate a claim that he says he made in the past.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Mar 26, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
You haven't been reading what I have written
very closely, bt.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Then prove it
Cuz every time somebody asks you for EVIDENCE, QUOTES, LINKS, etc., all we get is crickets.
I repeat, please produce a link with you stating the club should be hard after Meche and Lily.
The key word in that last sentence is “be.” As in, a 2006-7 link.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Mar 26, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
So you want me to go pull links just so I can
“prove” that I’m not lying?
The crossover traffic from NMLR in here knows what I said about Lilly & Meche (I also said it about Suppan),OR how many games the Rangers were going to win before the 2007 season OR that the A’s weren’t going to be much worse in 2008 than they were in 2007 OR that this year’s Lakers & Celtics weren’t going to win 70 games OR that the hiring of both JD & Ron Washington had to do more with their affordability than competence OR that the actions of Tom Hicks following the 2004 season were an incredible bad moon risin’ going forward OR that the 2004 team was probably going to win 88-92 games (based on their run differential after 20 games).
YOU don’t believe me?
Who cares?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Wow
You mean you actually predicted two NBA teams wouldn’t do what only a couple in the history of the NBA have ever done? Why should we ever doubt you
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I considered it low lying fruit myself
but some of the people over there truly believed both teams had a shot at doing it.
If you wanna see the genesis of the thread go to the off topic section and the thread called Mavs. Me, the great Billy Costigan jr.(all he wanted was his real identity back).
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
He has the luxury
of not doing that because he can’t. NMLR has switched servers so many times the posts from back then are gone as far as I know. You’ll just have to take him at his “word.”
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 26, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Diggler is one of the NMLR crossovers
who could vouch but he’d probably say “I don’t recollect.”
If it makes you feel better, bt – Tricer asked me for some JW predictions gone wrong and I gave him a nice list (maybe back in January).
I’m good but I’m human.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Yeah, I honestly have no idea if you were screaming from the rooftops for either of those guys
I do have a vivid recollection of you screaming about it after the fact though — which is typical.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 26, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea yea yea
We messed up, we should’ve hired you to be the GM.
Arias
I only saw Arias make one long throw last night at SS. He ranged to his right and had to load up to make a weak throw to 1B. He had no chance to get the runner but made the throw anyhow. I personally don’t think his arm is going to get any stronger that it is now. He could probably be a regular 2B in the MLs but not a SS.
What was his original shoulder injury? Rotator cuff? Labrum?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
I saw that throw Arias made
He was in the hole and had to get rid of it fast. It got there with velocity but bounced.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Um
Our opinions on that play could not possibly be more different. He was deep in the hole and on the ground. He rose and collected himself and made a throw with a lot of zip on it. It was late because the runner was quick, and it was off target.
That play really encouraged me on his arm strength.
Not sure if your post was to me
but I wasn’t being critical of Arias.
I thought he showed arm strengh on the play.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
No
It was not a reply to you. If you click the “up” button on a post it will show you what post it was a reply to.
you're a genius, jthig32
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Mar 26, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Benson in the Rotation?
Unfortunately, I have not seen a game this Spring. I was wondering if anyone has seen Benson pitch? Is this a good sign he’s possibly making the staff?
I think the only benefit is to all the hard d's on lsb who dig looking at his whorey wife.
My cool sig.
Didn't someone start
a vicious rumor in the GDT last night about Feldman going to the bullpen? JD has said they will go with the best 25 they can get. Could Benson make the rotation and push Feldman to the pen?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Maybe this....
Is more about Nipperts injury and him going on the DL.
Harrison will start in the minors for a month
Feldman will be moved to long relief and make that spot start that the 5th starter needs in the middle of the month.
Benson takes Feldman spot as the 4 and we re-evaluate him at the end of the month.
I believe that this will be the plan.
by death of the cool on Mar 26, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
But thats another 40 man spot you have to make room for
Andrus, Vizquel, Guardado, Turnbow, and now Benson
Now you got to move 2 guys off the 40 to make room for everyone
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Yeah the silence is a bit concerning
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
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