Wednesday a.m. Rangers stuff
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 4, 2009 8:39 AM CST
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PrintNo game yesterday, alas.
Anthony Andro has a story up today about Matt Harrison, talking about his calm demeanor and need to throw strikes. Harrison says that he isn't taking anything for granted, despite being penciled in early on as part of the Ranger rotation.
Randy Galloway has a column up on Joaquin Arias as a sleeper to end up as the team's shortstop this season, although it seems to have been written primarily as a vehicle to present a hypothetical that I, personally, hadn't heard before:
This we know:
When the Rangers moved out Alex and his contract, a deal with the Red Sox fell through, leaving only one taker. The Yankees were offering Soriano and one of two minor league infielders, either Robinson Cano or Joaquin Arias.
Taking Arias over Cano was not a blunder, by the way.
When the deal was done, however, supposedly Hart and manager Buck Showalter already had the trade in place to immediately ship Soriano to the Mets for, yes, a 19-year-old Reyes, who at the moment is in any discussion as best shortstop in the game.
Hindsight tells us it would have been a brilliant deal. Except ...
As the story goes, owner Tom Hicks, feeling he needed a name attached to the A-Rod trade, shot down the flip of Soriano to the Mets. If true, that would be an ugly smudge on the Hicks ownership résumé.
* * *
"Never heard a word on it," said Hicks, "which doesn’t mean there wasn’t discussion about a deal like that. But the part about me supposedly having said I had to have a frontline, name-type player for Alex, I never said that. I was never asked about that trade."
Showalter, now working the ESPN baseball gig, remains friendly with Hicks, and still has a year of pay remaining on the contract he had signed before being fired. Showalter politely declined to give a direct comment, calling it "ancient history."
And most any trade of that magnitude is usually at least mentioned to Mel Didier, still the team’s special assistant to the GM.
"Jose Reyes? Wow," he replied when asked here in spring training. "Well, it might have been discussed, but not with me. That’s one I hadn’t heard about."
Still, there are those within the Rangers’ organization who maintain Hart had that deal made, and Hicks is to blame for it not happening.
Admittedly, however, the owner’s reaction and answer when asked about Reyes came across as truthful.
And of course, one of the plusses in Galloway's mind about the deal would be that Michael Young would still be at second base and Ian Kinsler would be playing left field...
Gil LeBreton doesn't like the WBC.
Over at the DMN blog, Richard Durrett has a Q&A up with Nolan Ryan, and there are also several posts over there about the improvements to TBIA from this offseason, including pictures.
T.R. Sullivan has a story up on the recent uptick in Ranger players who are from Texas.
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I think it is very unlikely
I think there may have been some discussions of such a deal with the Mets, but I’d be shocked if the Mets actually would have done that straight up, and I suspect that this is a bit of revisionist history and folks extrapolating some Hicks talk about wanting a major leaguer from the ARod deal (and I’d be surprised if at some point during that winter, Hicks didn’t express a sentiment along those lines) into the reason for that not happening.
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 4, 2009 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
I do recall talks or rumors bandied
about Soriano for Reyes after Soriano had been here for a year (Spring Training 2005).
That was when Soriano was still recuperating from hamstring surgery and was limping around Surprise.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
It's total BS
Reyes is the guy I wanted but the Mets would not do Reyes plus the contract. Galloway is full of shit once again.
by Brett Perryman on Mar 4, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and who is suprised
…not i
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Not I either.
Keith Law on Greg Golson, "He's similiar to Cameron and Hunter in that all three are black."
Not getting you or Adam
What contract? 2004 was Sori’s first arbitration year. He got $5.4M. He was coming off two monster seasons in NY. He was easily worth $5.4M and was still a couple of years away from free agency. Why wouldn’t the Mets trade a prospect who has never played above A ball for one of the best 2nd basemen in the league.
I agree that this deal was probably never on the table, but because the Rangers would never do it.
by NorCalRangersFan on Mar 5, 2009 12:47 AM CST up reply actions
Errr
I let Galloway confuse me a little. I was looking at Reyes when he was 19 (as mentioned in the article). Except by 2004, Reyes was 20-21 and already playing with the Mets. Although he still hadn’t started putting up the big numbers that he put up later. Still, why wouldn’t the Mets make the deal. They are not the Yankees, but payroll has never been an issue for them.
by NorCalRangersFan on Mar 5, 2009 12:59 AM CST up reply actions
if there really is an internal movement
to draft and develop state talent, it’s too bad it wasn’t around three years ago.
Id rather have the best player
no matter where they are from
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I agree, but...
Talent being equal, it’s always better to draft homegrown kids. The Braves have created such a strong emotional attachment throughout the Southeast because they look hard to find those hometown kids.
It also helps when you’re trying to keep those players long term: if a kid dreams his whole life of playing for a team, then that team drafts him and he becomes a star with that team, it’s more likely that he will do his best to stay with that club for the majority of his career. Look at Chipper Jones: northern Florida boy who will end up playing the entirety of a Hall of Fame career for the Braves.
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
another thing
you should have an inherent advantage in scouting local talent – so the emphasis should be to maximize that advantage. I think that might naturally lead to more Texas kids being drafted
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
I like this better
It’s not about focusing on collecting Texas players, it is about making sure to not miss out on any Texas players. If you are going to focus on any one area of the country to scout more aggressively, Texas would be a good choice for the Rangers.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
Yep
It’s like football recruiting: if you can get a superstar national recruit from California, great. But you had better devote more resources in-state so you don’t miss out on any of the local studs.
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
Braves
How many of their impact players were hometown guys? Andruw Jones…not from the southeast. John Smoltz….Michigan. Greg Maddux…born in Texas grew up in Vegas. Tom Glavine…..Massachusetts. David Justice…Cincy.
Sure if two players are equal talent then yes go grab the local kid. If anything it makes for a good story. But with the amount of money these players are making hometown loyalties make very little difference. Maybe at the end of their career after they’ve made their millions will they play the hometown card but as an 18 year old kid I really think it makes very little difference.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
and really, no two players are ever of equal talent
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
The hometown focus really started after that crop of players
The Braves have always looked for the Chipper Joneses who hail from the Braves’ region, but they really started focusing on Georgia in about 2000 when they got a new scouting director. Brian McCann and Jason Heyward are both hometown boys that are at the core of their plans for the next few years. Francoeur is a local boy too, though the argument could be made that his fan favorite status has complicated their need to send him back to the minors to work on his plate discipline.
I found this in an article written in 2007:
Over the last six years the Atlanta Braves have made drafting hometown kids a priority. Since 2000, when Roy Clark took over as Scouting Director, the Braves have taken 43 players from Georgia high schools or colleges.
The success of those picks shows, as four are on the big league roster, while nine other Georgians are in the top four levels of the Braves’ farm system.
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
I'd say the odds are good that Harrison and Salty grew up Braves fans, too
Harrison is a Durham, NC boy, where the Braves are huge. Salty grew up in South Florida, which was Braves country forever (and really, still is).
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
And how much success have those hometown guys brought them?
Francouer and McCann are the only ones to see the playoffs and that was their first season in 2005 as 21 year olds.
It looks to be a good strategy and it probably has benefits but I would rather win with guys who are from nowhere near Texas than be mediocre with a bunch of hometown boys
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Where did I say I wanted to be mediocre with a bunch of hometown boys?
I didn’t. I think the Rangers should build a franchise with the best talent they can find, whether that be from Texas, Latin America, the Pacific Rim, or California. However, there is lots of impact talent in Texas, and the club would be wise to emphasize drafting those kids.
All I’m saying is that when you have lots of kids like Taylor Teagarden, Chris Davis, and Blake Beavan who hail from Rangers country and grow up rooting for the Rangers, they really need to be drafted by the Rangers.
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
You never said that
But you did cite the Braves as an example of a club who has focused on drafting hometown kids and creating an emotional attachment. I merely pointed out that thus far that “emotional attachment” has led to alot of mediocrity. Theres some nice players but they have nothing to show for it. They very well may win a bunch of division titles and possibly WS titles but thus far they have been mediocre if not worse than the Rangers. I am merely concerned with winning. Whether its with a kid from Arlington or Portland, Maine.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
right
but they heavily scout the southeast, and it pays off for them is what the point is
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 4, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
How does it pay off?
Obviously not in the win column
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
thats foolish
so all the money the rangers have spent on latin american signings the last 4 years have yet to pay off for the rangers at all, right?
…obviously not in the win column
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 4, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
I didn't say it won't pay off
I said it hasn’t yet. The Braves didn’t start heavily focusing on “hometown” kids until the early 2000s. When the first of theose started arriving in the majors was 2005. McCann and Francouer both played about 1/3 of the season. That was the last time the Braves won over 84 games. Of course there are other factors involved but if you are going to say the rangers should focus on hometown kids and draft them more often don’t cite the Braves as a franchise you want to be like. Cause the last 3 years when their hometown kids have played regularly they have stunk probably worse than the Rangers have.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
ok
i thought you were meaning it wouldnt
my bad
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Would be great if it were true.
Still, the big trade we missed out on was Manny/Lester.
Get off my lawn.
Does Beckett/Lowell count?
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
Because we pretty much had a deal done
and the Marlins just used it to pry Hanley away from the Red Sox. Danks/Diamond and Blalock were never what they were looking to get.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
no the understanding i had
was they used our “offer” of danks/blalock to get the bosox to trade hanley, which was the player they had targeted from the beginning
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 4, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Yet there are some sources out there
that will suggest that Michael Young was a better defender at SS than Reyes was last year.
http://baseballsavant.blogspot.com/
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Anybody seen the new Fielding Bible yet?
I wonder how they compare in that volume.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Win Shares rule.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
No but
Plus/minus numbers for 2008 and 2006-2008 are pretty conclusive if you buy that particular stat.Reyes has been a little above average and Young has been well below average.
by Brett Perryman on Mar 4, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
I don't have the Fielding Bible, but I did renew my BJO account.
In 2008 MY was a -7 shortstop. He converted 65% of potential double plays, was -1 on balls to his right, -6 on balls to his left, +2 on balls hit straight at him and -2 on balls in the air.
Reyes in 2008 was a -2 shortstop. He converted 59% of potential double plays, was -2 to his right, -1 to his left, +4 on balls hit straight at him and -2 on balls in the air.
Reyes was +13 in 2007 and +16 in 2006. MY was -15 in 2007 and -10 in 2006.
how much is/was BJO
i asked someone on here but they werent sure
equally, do you have BP? which one do you like better?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
It's three dollars a month.
I do have BP, and it’s vastly superior to BJO. BJO is mostly worthless except for plus/minus. I’ve canceled my subscription before and probably will again.
BP is becoming obsolete, but it still has some uses.
ah?
is that all you subscribe to? BP and BJO?
the reason i would subscribe to BP is just b/c of all of the articles (enjoy reading the free stuff a LOT)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Yup, those are my only subscriptions.
The only place I’d subscribe to for football, my friend is a writer and provides me his content (fanball.com).
footballguys.com
is pretty good fwiw
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
In what way is BP "becoming obsolete"?
Just curious to hear your thoughts…
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
I can't speak for philkid and what he means by that
but I’ve found that in recent years, there’s just so much sabermetric statistics out there that what BP has to offer on their player pages really doesn’t cut it anymore.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Manny/Lester
Yep, although that would’ve triggered buying Ponson and Aurelia at inflated prices.
Even with the added cost I’d take that over the Soriano deal.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Mar 4, 2009 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
Hicks much prefers the Soriano deal
because he was able to get out from under that contract (while paying the Yankees $ 9 million per for ARod until 2007).
If Manny was here, he’d have been on the hook for $ 20 million per and despite having a stud like Lester going forward, he’s glad Soriano came here instead of Manny.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Do you have a RSS feed for posts that include Galloway and Hicks?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
Isn't your shtick more about what color
uniform the Rangers wear than anything having to do with the game or results on the field.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
huh?
I couldn’t care less about the color of the uniforms — where did you get that?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
Soriano Deal
ended up being about as much money.
Manny was $100 million.
We ended up paying Soriano $13 million in his 2 years here, plus $65 million to the yankees make ARod go away.
So we got Soriano for 2 years and Arias for $78 million, and we could have had Manny and Lester for $100 million.
Seems like the biggest bargain ever for $22 million. 3 more years of Manny plus Lester.
Get off my lawn.
seeing as how
the players were actually agreed upon whereas the Reyes deal is just a rumor and the Beckett deal was mostly leverage, yes, I would think it’s safe to say that counts as the biggest fish to ever get away in an organization of starved fishermen.
What an annoying, bitter diatribe
From Gil. I like that he conveniently omits Peavy, Jeter, Pedroia, Wright, Youkilis and Lilly from his list of “Who’s Thats?”
I’m sick of the whining about the WBC.
Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.
yeah, its stupid
His main argument seems to be that the US players don’t take it seriously. Well, the international players do. This is a BIG DEAL to all teams not USA. If you want to rant, rant about the fact that the US can’t recruit the best talent onto their team.
I’m pretty sure LeBreton hasn’t seen any WBC games in person. Probably didn’t watch them on TV last time around either. All he knows is the whining ESPN has that it isn’t as interesting to cover the Red Sox spring training this year.
Everyone here should try to go to at least one of the games if you live in a host city. Its an experience you’ll always remember. Nationalism + sports is a great thing.
My favorite part
For both Cruz and Ramirez, the Classic likely will be front-page news in their home countries. Here, however, on Abner Doubleday’s home turf, the tournament will be yawned at as just another set of exhibition games.
Nevermind the fact that the S-T already has the WBC on its front page (online) as the #2 story behind the Mavs.
Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.
I wish
people wouldn’t waste time covering the NBA, NASCAR, or the World Cup. But funny enough some people actually care about those sports/events as well.
Amazing things happen in the NBA.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
They're almost as amazing as the things that happen in WWE.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Young said on RGs Show that he wished everything would have
stayed behind closed doors and not become public. His disgust was undeniable.
It was a good interview. Young said he and Wash have no problems.
When asked about Boy Blunder, Young said very curtly “We’re fine, we’ve talked. At the end of the day we want the same thing.”
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
I'm confused
does this post have anything to do the WBC and its relevance? Other than the fact MY isn’t good enough anymore to have been invited back?
Replied in the wrong place JB
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Well then you should have
No problem with JD if FF doesn’t since he is the one that counts and not you. Your schtick is and has grown old. We all know how you feel so why keep rehashing it over and over. If you have nothing nice to say then don’t say anything at all. Keep reading Grandpa Urine since that is the only person you seem to connect with.
Keith Law on Greg Golson, "He's similiar to Cameron and Hunter in that all three are black."
today's pitchers:
Kevin Millwood, Derek Holland, Joe Torres, Willie Eyre, Frank Francisco, Doug Mathis
If Torres has another crisp outing, I am ready to officially jump on his bandwagon.
I asked Parks about Torres yesterday
Like you, I’m always looking for a breakout lefty, Parks’ response was pretty lukewarm:
Torres has good stuff, but his command is erratic at best. I think he has a chance to make this team, but I’m not so sure how effective he can be over the course of a season.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
that makes him sound
a lot like Bill White.
The difference, to me, is that Torres’ injury problems early in his career stunted his progression, so it is unfair to look at him as a 26 year old journeyman. And to be honest, as nice as his strikeout rate looks on paper, I am more excited by his ability to get groundouts.
Also, he gave up 29 hits in 50.1 innings last year, with 58 Ks. With numbers like that, he can afford to give up a few extra walks without doing much damage.
Sounds alot like Juan Cruz
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
i almost mentioned his name
but i resisted because Cruz has shown the ability to do it at the major league level. But yeah, when a guy is that hard to hit, a few extra walks aren’t nearly as dangerous.
Players from TX
I don’t care where the players are from. If my brother was a prospect I’d still want the Rangers to take the best player available, regardless of demographics.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
from the DMN blog
… Ryan doesn’t usually like to tinker with someone’s mechanics unless they get out of sync. “The biggest challenge for a pitching coach is to get them back in as quick as they can. That kind of stuff needs to be done at those lower levels where you get those kids that maybe haven’t been to exposed to much coaching or an understanding of mechanics and you spend time on that.”
I am glad Conner is gone. Well at least not working with the ML staff.
• On Michael Young. “He’s taken to third well and I haven’t heard one negative word out of him and he’s taken it as a challenge and I think Michael is going to try to be the best third baseman in the game. I think that’s the way he is and that’s what drives him. Once he accepted the move over there, and that was behind him, he’s gone about his work. You like his actions because he comes in on a ball well, he’s accustomed to making an underhand throw, so I don’t expect to see any glitches there at all.”
Where’s all the MY bashers?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
good for him taking to third
but doesn’t forgive his pussyfit
"To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."
Its kind of hard to all of a sudden forget that
You can’t be a great team player when you demand a trade over a position change and whine about how unfair things are for you for 2 months
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
He didn't whine for two months
At least not publicly. It was what…a week maybe 10 days form the time the story broke to when he came out publicly saying he was sorry and would move. Yeah he demanded a trade back in December but everything was kept private until January or ealry February.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I replied in the wrong place ... DOH!
Young said on RGs Show that he wished everything would have stayed behind closed doors and not become public. His disgust was undeniable.
It was a good interview. Young said he and Wash have no problems.
When asked about Boy Blunder, Young said very curtly "We’re fine, we’ve talked. At the end of the day we want the same thing."
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
If he wished everything would have stayed behind closed doors
He should have kept it that way. A “No comment” would have been just fine if he really didn’t want things to go public. Doing interviews with the DMN and the S-T within a couple of days of the story breaking doesn’t help him keep things private.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Once the story broke
MY had to do what he could to get in front of it or the organization was going to let him twist in the wind.
They’re well versed in doing just that to their players.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
why should he have stayed at SS
he has one “true” plus tool, and thats his arm
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 4, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
I don't disagree with moving Young
but I do disagree with the team bringing up Andrus, so you know, they can “get all of our championship caliber players lined up together.”
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
why do you disagree with it
what is to disagree about? that hes not one of your “best players” in 2010?
and please dont argue if they keep him down for the first 3 weeks of the season – they do that to get another year of andrus under team control
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 4, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
I disagree with bringing up Andrus
because he’s clearly not ready for The Show.
This move smirks of a very desperate GM moving the clock forward at least one year (possibly two) to save his own incompetent ass.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
How is he clearly not ready?
Are you simply going off his error total? Cause from all accounts those have mainly been mistakes that as he ages will be eliminated.
Is it his age? Is 20 too young for “The Show”
Is it his batting? Nobodys expecting him to come up and hit .320 or slug .500. I have no problem if a 20 year old puts up only a .250 average if hes playing good defense. And I can live with some errors that are because the kid is trying to make a miraculous play if it means I see less balls rolling through the hole on the left side of the infield or up the middle.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
bigsteve,
I think he’s too young. A 20 year old who is merely average to decent in The Show has a good shot at becoming an eventual star.
The reviews on Andrus are mixed and he appears to be very polarizing. Those who are unbiased seem to think he will be an average player ….when he’s in his prime.
The people that like him the most are the usual Homer suspects who constantly wave red & blue pom poms and rarely have anything bad to say about Ranger prospects. It’s occasions like these that I don’t take their opinions seriously.
I expect Andrus to have an OPS below .600 and make 30 errors if he plays 140 games in The Show this year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Ok
Well his age does not show he is clearly not ready. Something like a guy who hits .240 in the minors is clearly not ready for the majors. A pitcher who walks 7 per 9 innings is clearly not ready for the show.
But a kid who hit almost .300 with decent-good baserunning ability and pretty good plate discipline along with extraordinary range and a good glove at a premium defensive position is quite possibly ready for the majors.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I can't conclusively say either way
what kind of player he will eventually be in The Show when he’s 25-26 years old. There’s a chance he could be above average.
I believe if he was truly ready for this season, the non-Homers who evaluate prospects wouldn’t be as polarized as they are about him.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
how are they polarized
its not like some have him as a top (overall) 10 guy and others have him as not even being in the top 100 (overall) or that some have him in the rangers top 5 but others dont have him in the rangers top 40…i dont think it says a lot about a player if hes ranked, consistantly in the top 50-60 prospects in the game by almost all memebrs of the prospect-ing community, in fact why would it.
its kind of like the people getting so irate (paulthomas) about iona being 5 spots ahead of cahill/anderson – i mean, is 5 spots that big of a deal? equally, would someone get superpissed that BA or BP ranked feliz 1 and holland 2 in the rangers system instead of vice versa?
this arguement, about how “polarizing” he may be would work for some rangers prospects (main is probably at the top of “polarizing” prospects in the system – see how peopple like jparks and others rank him vs how non-rangers prospect gurus rank – or even someone like maxram is more of a polarizing prospect than andrus. in fact i would venture to say that main, maxram and font are more polarizing prospects than andrus at this point in time
if the question is, will andrus, in his prime, be an average to slightly above average baseball player (defense included) i dont think that there is anyone out there who would say that they, without a doubt, think that he is going to be a below average/have a value of a replacement player.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
The reviews on Andrus are mixed and he appears to be very polarizing. Those who are unbiased seem to think he will be an average player ….when he’s in his prime.
how so, no one has yet to say they dont think he will play, the biggest “dissenter” is goldstein who iirc still thoguht he wouuld be a major league player
if he is a slightly below average player, all things considered, is that a bad thing?
equally if he plays half the year at AAA and then comes up and is an average player the 2nd half (again, defense/all things considered) is that a bad thing?
what else do you want him to work on? hitting HR?
what else do you think he can learn at AAA? more power? better batting eye (which your not going to learn at AAA probably anyway) this is the biggest question out there
what CAN he learn at AA/AAA that he CANT/WOULDNT learn at the major league level?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
More plate discipline
and less sloppy play in the field is what he can learn at OKC.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
my understanding is that most of his errors
do not come from sloppy play, they come from trying to do “too much” – his errors, again from what ive seen/read dont usually come ffrom him sitting back on a routine ground ball and then throwing it into the stands or throwing it 10’ away from the bag or throwing a 3 hopper to the 1b, they come from him getting to a ball that a normal SS would not get to and then trying to do “too much” by throwing the player out instead of holding on to the ball
also, why do you think andrus (or any other player in the minor leagues) is going to suddenly learn plate discipline at AAA when he hasnt learned it at any other stop in the minors. its not like AAA is going to turn elvis andrus into elvis “barry bonds” andrus when it comes to watching close pitches go by for balls and taking a walk
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Or
he could learn it in Arlington. The sloppy play in the field has apparantly been largely due to mental errors which won’t go away by simply playing in AAA. Its not like he doesn’t know how to field or throw. The types of errors he is making are ones that go away as he matures whether he is in A ball or the major leagues.
As for the plate discipline, how much more do you want. he has consistantly had 50+ point spreads between his BA and OBP. 323 is the lowest OBP of his minor league career and that was with a .265 average.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Well, Rosenthal said MY called. It seems that at least the initial national report
could’ve been circumvented if MY had not called Rosenthal. The local media was pissed that the scoop went to Rosenthal.
JD: Adamant about 78 wins in 2009. Go Rangers!
He didn't whine publicly for 2 months
but I don’t think that makes up for him bitching about the position move for that long.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I think it does
What happens behind closed doors should remain that way so to me everything that happened prior to the story leaking out doesn’t matter much. He had a horrible 10 days or so PR wise but has agreed to the move and is working to be the best player posible at his new position.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
So demanding a trade because you don't want to move a few feet to your right
doesn’t change your opinion at all on him being a team player?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Not when he eventually moves and works hard at his new position
I think he had every right to ask for a trade at the time. Now if he held out of spring or tried to usurp the manager by insisting on playing SS ala Soriano in Washington then yeah it would change my perception of him as a team player. But demanding a trade under the circumstances that were there in December does nothing to change my opinion of Micheal Young as far as being a team player goes.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
He's sick of all the incompetence surrounding him,
especially with the GM?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Well
Unfortunately that Gold Glove gave him a lot of right to demand a trade. You know it, I know it, pretty much everybody knows that Micheal Young is/was not a good defensive player at SS last year or in previous years. But when you go and say you are wanting him to move because you want to improve the defense a mere days after he is awarded a trophy as the best defensive player in the AL it gives him the right to ask for a trade.
Say you work at Best Buy. You work in the television section as a sales guy. You have been with the company for 8 years. You don’t always have the best sales numbers but you never call in sick and never get in trouble at work. Well say they award you a trophy as best salesperson for the year, no matter how deserved it is. And then a week later they ask you to move to the appliances section and be a salesguy there. Would you have the right to demand to move to a different store? Cause I sure as hell think so.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
His false sense of entitlement
doesn’t give him the right to demand a trade.
In your Best Buy “analogy”, I still wouldn’t have the right to demand to get my way or let me move out. You might not like it, but at the end of the day, its up to you to do as you’re told or stop cashing the Best Buy checks.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
We obviously have different views
I feel he had the right to demand a trade. Its what he did afterwards that made me keep my opinion of him as a team player. Had he come to camp and said hes still the SS or pulled a Soriano, or not reported then yeah I would be crucifying him for being a piece of shit. But to make a request behind closed doors like he did and then after its leaked to the media you do the right thing, even if it took a week or ten days, doesn’t make him a horrible person and a bad teammate.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Jeebers.
He fucking moved, get over it. Yeah he bitched for a few days, wouldn’t you if you were moved to the mail room at your office? Ever heard of professional pride?
(((Oh, Reaper is back, Yay!)))
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Who is this "those in in the Rangers' organization"?
JD? He was assistant GM back then, but I can’t see any benefit to him if he supports a smear of Hicks. Rudy is someone who can say crazy things, and he maybe didn’t intend it to be a smear. If there is someone who wants to pile it on Hicks, it probably isn’t a high-ranking person.
I don’t recall the Rangers going hard after minor leaguers back then. They did flip Einar “hair-on-fire” Diaz for Chris Young at the beginning of the 2004 season, but most other moves seemed to involve veteran players.
There was some discussion about Kris Benson being obtained from the Mets at the 2005 winter meetings. At the trade deadline that year there was talk that Minaya should go get Soriano amidst all of the Soriano trade rumors out there, and Rosenthal mentioned that the Rangers had earlier shown interest in Reyes, though I don’t know exactly what he said as the foxsports link is dead.
There apparently were active lines of communication between Minaya and Hart. It appears Reyes was at least discussed. That’s about all we’ll ever really know.
So, I don’t really see the point of Galloway’s report. Is he more mad at Hicks? Is that all there is to it? If he’s really trying to set the record straight on the Reyes-to-Texas story that is “making the rounds”, I haven’t seen it reported any where else, and it appears it has both made the rounds and been put to rest within his own story.
Strange, rambling effort by Galloway.
Now that I think about it, I think I get it. He has nothing to be singularly hateful about. Nolan is turning around the pitching. Boy Blunder has injected an immense amount of talent just arriving on the ML team. Andrus is making the move of MY to 3B look smart. He’s got nothing.
JD: Adamant about 78 wins in 2009. Go Rangers!
by rooster on Mar 4, 2009 9:38 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Your last paragraph.....
excellent.
Adam J. Morris - "Murphy isn't that good. He is overrated by Rangers fans."
....How dare you, sir!! Take it back!!
Reading what Adam quoted
That’s exactly what I was wondering. What’s the point of that article? It reads more as if he is just talking about what happened a few years ago without actually taking a stance or drawing any kind of conclusion from that information.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Everybody's innocent in the Ranger organization!
There must be a poltergeist in the clubhouse.
I'm just killing time until I'm reincarnated.
You should front page the John Odom story
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
McCarthy has some soreness in his right shoulder
Right-handed starter Brandon McCarthy will not start Friday’s exhibition game as scheduled because he has soreness in his right shoulder. McCarthy told trainer Jamie Reed about the soreness this morning. McCarthy missed nearly all of last season because of a pair of injuries. More to come.
I hope this is nothing. McCarthy said in that Durett interview that everyone has some soreness around this time so hopefully that’s all it is.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I sighed
on that mention before I saw your sigh. Is there any other reaction appropriate?
Anger…not worth it.
Joy? Only for The Outlaw
I do not have "joy"
at all. Watching a mediocre baseball team play when it has an owner that doesn’t give a shit about winning is horrible.
It’s just that I’m surprised that this happened.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
then go find another team
i sure would appreciate it
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 4, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry, I'm a Ranger lifer.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
suprised me
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 4, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Followed the Rangers closely for 35 years+ but
thank gawd, I’ve also been a Dodgers fan.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
maybe you should follow them 100% of the time
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
them=dodgers
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
So you're a sports bigamist, eh?
That makes sense.
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
Oh here we go
I see this thread (or the new thread that will surely pop up) going to 200 comments or so
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I find this...
shocking.
Hopefully the team stocked up on enough Vagisil during the off-season for just this occasion.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Barely OT nitpick, but. . .
Reyes, who at the moment is in any discussion as best shortstop in the game.
How can anyone but Hanley Ramirez be in that dicussion?
michael young!
he is the best SS Evarrrrr
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Texas Team Health Report Incorrect
by Will Carroll
Reader Jamey Minnis caught something that we missed. On Monday, we ran the wrong chart with the Texas Team Health Report. We’re at work re-doing the charts, doubling checking past charts, and will have the correct one in place as soon as we can. It was one of those simple errors (the chart actually goes with Pittsburgh) that just happen, but that we hate that they happen at all. Thanks again to Jamey and to all our great readers.
by Will Carroll
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
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