Has anyone else lost faith in CJ?
Has anyone else lost faith in CJ? I didn't have much coming into the season and I've lost that. He looks like the same guy as last year ... and that's a bad thing. He's talented but doesn't seem to have a clue out there.
He doesn't need to see the 8th inning anytime soon. I'd recommend sending him to AAA if there was somebody ... anybody ... ready to take his spot on the roster.
0 recs |
136 comments
Comments
Yes.
He does not belong out there. I would not mind seeing the Rangers draft someone with their # 1 pick that is a college reliever that can be a setup guy or in the big leagues next year to help out in the bullpen. Our bullpen needs major help.
TCU are going to bust through the BCS this season.......
by Monkey Brain on Apr 12, 2009 2:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't agree more.
Your statement that he doesn’t belong out there right now is dead on. I just wish we had other options to replace him. Unfortunately, we just don’t right now.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on Apr 12, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
College Relievers
Drafting a college reliever is just a bad idea. We have so many pitchers in the minors that will fill that role in the future. That it is just an unnecessary waste of a draft pick when we need to be focusing on high ceiling players with premium picks. I could write a huge rant about this but will leave it at that bare minimum.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
by nikpin on Apr 12, 2009 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugly game
but he is still probably one of our better relievers.
"The idea that the Rangers are going to be a solid contender for a number of years is a fantasy." - Adam J. Morris
by DJCahill on Apr 12, 2009 2:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As long as nothing goes wrong when he is out there
He seems to do fine until someone reaches base or an error is made. Then he completely melts down and can’t work out of the jam.
by uthornfan on Apr 12, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see many of our relievers
coming back from something gone wrong. As soon as any of them, maybe excepting Frankie, starts running into problems, I say yank em. I don’t trust them to pitch themselves out of self induced problems.
"The idea that the Rangers are going to be a solid contender for a number of years is a fantasy." - Adam J. Morris
by DJCahill on Apr 12, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
should have signed juan cruz.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 2:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't say that!
People will get upset about you saying things the Rangers should have done that make sense because it makes you disloyal!
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
im not TOO worried about it
had they signed him im sure wash would have still used jennigs > cruz in the late innings
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
all too often
that seems to be the case, you’re correct.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think thats a load of crap
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This game was so frustrating
There is no way they should have lost this game.
Keith Law on Greg Golson, "He's similiar to Cameron and Hunter in that all three are black."
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
by boomer1 on Apr 12, 2009 2:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree with uthornfan
You can easily see the stress and failure in his face. He may have a world of talent but if it’s missing upstairs, it doesn’t matter.
II Cor. 4:17-18
by TedFord on Apr 12, 2009 2:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Something is wrong with him up there.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Apr 12, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol it really is sad
cause he’s got the talent.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope. I have absolute faith in him.
He’s pitched in 4 of the first 6 games and just pitched in back to back games. He should not have been out there today.
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
The 2008-2009 Dallas Mavericks are the biggest teases in the world.
by sprite on Apr 12, 2009 2:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
really
you are blaming this on fatigue?
Ceterum censeo Cat esse delendam - Cahill the Elder
by ab03 on Apr 12, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
If it was any other pitcher in the bp the same thing would have happened.
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
The 2008-2009 Dallas Mavericks are the biggest teases in the world.
by sprite on Apr 12, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this begs the question
as to why in the hell you pitch anyone in the pen 4 of the first 6 games
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
b/c wash is dumb?
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Apr 12, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's dumb
is taking a reliever that was awful last year, and league average the year before that and keep making excuses for him.
by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say his 2007 season was better than league average
2008 however was not so good.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say it wasn't.
97 tRA+.
At the most I could settle for saying it was close enough that he was maybe average.
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
see you pick tra+ and it happens to support your case
but lets say i go with era+ and it supports that he was better than average. (2007 era+ of 149)
you also happen to ignore his good tra+ for 2006 and 2005 (105 and 126)
it doesnt matter the argument, someone always finds some stat to support it.
i will say if you look at his career splits overall vs lefties and righties it would indicate that he would make a very good loogy
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's because
ERA+ is often a flawed stat – so is tRA+, but less so. What does his FIP+ look like?
Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.
by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
see... everyone has their own stat they like
side note, how the hell can his 05 season be considered that good by tra+??
thats when he was still coming off surgery and rushed by buck.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the best way
to measure his year is probably analysis of both tRA and FIP+ stats.
Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.
by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This makes a bit of sense.
But I’ll always lean towards tRA because I don’t like that FIP throws its hands up and decides pitchers have no control over whether they give up harmless ground balls or hard line drives. I do think there’s such a thing as inducing poor contact.
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure
stats back that conclusion. It’s more about the batters when it comes to LD% than hitters
Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.
by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have seen enough stats to back that pitchers do have fairly consistent control over line drive rates.
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have seen enough "Baseball Games"
To know that pitchers who locate the ball well and/or have good movement are difficult to hit harder. Hell I’ve played in enough games to know that.
That said, when a batter’s on a roll, all bets are off. Generally speaking, though…
by Black Francis on Apr 13, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't think there's such a thing as pitchers who pitch to induce weak contact?
Like, you think a ground ball is just luck, and no pitcher is better at getting them than another?
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think GB%
is different for LD%. GB% is absolutely a part of a pitcher’s ability, but what determines if a player turns over or just miss a fastball vs. driving it into RF. I think it’s the player that determines what he does with a pitch, not the pitcher.
Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.
by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're part wrong there
…and part right.
by Black Francis on Apr 13, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take tRA over FIP.
Because I do believe — and the evidence behind tRA shows — that pitchers do have control over what form of contact they give up.
But I’ll take FIP over ERA. There’s really not a lot of reason to look at ERA when there are two vastly-superior, support-neutral stats freely available at great sites.
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then explain the tra+ comment i made
you totally ignored your stats supporting he had a good 05 and 06. and he clearly did NOT have a good 05
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is it clear that he didn't have a good 05?
In any case, notice his tRA* is much higher. He had MUCH higher ground ball rates and much lower fly ball rates than his career following. It was possibly flukey, but it’s still not clear he didn’t have a good ‘05. I’m not sure why that would be clear.
I didn’t ignore it, I had no reason to care. What makes it clear he wasn’t good that year?
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
did you see the 05 season?
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he got drilled
granted he shouldnt have even been out there
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you go with ERA+ over tRA+?
I don’t look for stats to reinforce my belief. I look for stats to help form my belief.
You seem to be doing the former here.
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stats
I like the park adjusted era, i also value ops+
i’ve seen far too many cases of “so and so sucks just look at x” “yeah but x shows they rock”
no matter what something is somewhere to show that someone is good or bad and someone else wont value it.
i think you guys are dismissing far too much what a guy like cj actually did in the past
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I like the park adjusted era, i also value ops+"
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or, to elaborate.
Why do you like OPS more than something that doesn’t weight OBP as equal to SLG? Or more than something that includes linear weights?
Why do you prefer ERA to something that adjusts for fielding, which has a huge affect on pitchers. Or that doesn’t inflate or deflate a reliever’s value the way a stat merely designed around runs allowed that weren’t determined to be the fault of a fielder by the official scorer (when we know errors are a very bad way to evaluate defense)? A LOOGY coming in and giving up a single and then leaving the game had a terrible outing, but he’s going to have a 0.00 ERA.
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sigh...
im done, i’m not as stat heady as you obviously.
i look at thinks like k9 bb9, etc.
i like using ops for my hitters,
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, so you don't like spending as much time looking at stats.
That’s perfectly fine. And, in fact, OPS+ isn’t bad for that purpose. But if someone looks at something that has a little more information in it, surely you can think they may have a point instead of assuming they’re wrong because it doesn’t agree with OPS+, right?
And as far as liking strike outs and walks for pitchers, I would think FIP would be your thing, then. Not that FIP is bad, I just see too much evidence suggesting pitchers can control the caliber of contact allowed.
Again, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with not being a stat person, but you should understand the shortcomings of ERA. TRA and FIP both have shortcomings, as well, but they do take more info in to account than ERA.
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i never said you were wrong because you like tra+
i went and looked at that stat, and i saw he had good stats in the past for that excluding 08.
i’ve looked at the fip and it wasnt send him to aaa awful.
but i also remember performances ive seen.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as the rest of your post. . .
i’ve seen far too many cases of "so and so sucks just look at x" "yeah but x shows they rock"
Well, yeah. Not all stats measure the same thing, and for that reason, some stats are more useless than others. Just because two stats differ doesn’t mean one or both of them are wrong. It may well mean one is flawed and the other is more accurate. So in your example, one person may be looking at better information than the other.
no matter what something is somewhere to show that someone is good or bad and someone else wont value it.
So what you should value is the people with the most logical and reliable information. Not the people who find the right stat to support their argument.
I really like the quote about the lamp post as stats, being used for “support rather than illumination.” The people you describe are looking for a stat to suppor their preconcieved notion. They are idiots. The folks you should be spending your valuable time talking to, the people you should listen to, and the kind of person everyone should be, is one who looks at stats to inform their opinion, not support it. You pull them out as support after you’ve already been educated.
i think you guys are dismissing far too much what a guy like cj actually did in the past
And I think you’re overrating what he did in the recent past. Where does that leave us?
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think you underrate
your own stat you quote supports he was better in past years but you choose to say 08 and 07 he sucked.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, yes, he was once pretty good.
But in ‘05 there’s some evidence to suggest it was flukey. Considering he hasn’t even approached that in recent history, wouldn’t it make sense if I’m looking at the entire body of evidence and weighing more towards recent performances than blindly assuming 2005 is the guy he really is?
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well why would you take a chance on burning out one of your few RP
who have EVER had any luck at the major league level
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What has he done in the past that gives you faith in him?
Faith to be how good?
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what dan said
there is absolutely no one at this point that could replace him if we sent him down. maybe you could use jennings or madrigal in the setup role, but is anybody really ok with that? assuming you could just take that job away, you realyl cant’ do anythign else.
Ceterum censeo Cat esse delendam - Cahill the Elder
by ab03 on Apr 12, 2009 2:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
CJ? maybe
management? yes. if they cleaned house tomorrow i wouldn’t bat an eye. this team could be good, but they will suffer many more losses like this because they have no bullpen. the atlanta braves, run by smart men with disposable money, completely overhauled their pitching staff this offseason. the rangers mgmt only needed two legit bullpen arms to field a competitive team, and they decided not to.
so yeah, fuck them.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on Apr 12, 2009 2:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i think management wanted CJ and Madrigal and others to work out
fukumori last year, CJ this year. management has just been awful at evaluating 8th inning setup guys
Ceterum censeo Cat esse delendam - Cahill the Elder
by ab03 on Apr 12, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually
management has been pretty poor at evaluating ML pitching period. Not just setup guys.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the thing
is that you should consider pitching in general — not ML but minors also
who gets the praise for ricroc for padilla?
signing/trading for the minor league guys?
picking up madrigal/strop?
franKKK?
dont use danks/gallarraga as “good examples” either – NO one saw gallaraga as being anywhere near league average and danks was NOT good before he learned the cutter, and if he hadnt no one would even be talking about how we “mis evaluated” danks
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why did it take some other team to teach him a cutter?
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Apr 12, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One name comes to mind
Mark Connor
by awillis111 on Apr 12, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right but how do you blame the front office for that
or do you chalk this one up to kenny williams being brillant?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
when you take the league’s worst pitching staff, then add Kris Benson and Jason Jennings – guess what you are left with? The league’s worst pitching staff, that’s what.
JD’s decision to not upgrade the pitching staff continues to puzzle me. We keep hearing that better defense will help the pitching, or better conditioning will help the pitching, or a new pitching coach will improve the pitching, or this or that will help the pitching. How about this for a novel idea…improve the pitching by bringing in some more talented pitchers.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what would you have liked to see him do?
if they sign sheets and hes healthy, its a totally different situation
if they signed cruz (feel like that has to be a hicks/$$ thing, right?) its a different situation?
CC, AJ burnett, etc werent coming here
what moves should they have made?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've yet to hear you say what JD should have done
What moves would you have made, Todd?
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Apr 12, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
signed Juan Cruz for the bullpen
traded Salty for Bowden and Bard
traded David Murphy for Edwin Jackson
Doctor please. Some more of these.
by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Juan Cruz should have happened
Not sure that saves this team’s season, but it would have helped.
Salty for Bowden and Bard is dumb and also possibly never on the table from the Red Sox. I know you love Max though so trying to talk you out of trading Salty for anything that lets Max play is pointless.
I would have loved Murphy for a Rays pitcher. Again, not sure if that was ever on the table.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Apr 12, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well of course, none of us know what deals were or weren't on the table
What I was trying to get across is that I would have moved our surplus at C and OF for pitching. The Rays traded Jackson for what appears to be a lesser talent than Murphy, so I think it’s reasonable to think that deal could have happened. Not sure why you think the Salty deal is dumb, but personally I don’t think he is ever going to be a real asset, so I would have moved him for good value – and a near ready late inning reliever and a near ready mid rotation starter seems like real good value to me.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because we don't know if it was ever one the table
the deal is dumb because you give up something at its lowest value for two pitchers at pretty close to their peak value after great year in the minors.
Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.
by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think you know what the hell you are talking about.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I think
what you’re suggesting the Rangers do is the exact same fucking thing the Rangers has always done – covet similarly profile pitchers rather than accumulate assets to get that true difference maker.
Seriously, what is the difference between Daniel Bard and, say, someone like Pedro Strop? They’re both pitchers with iffy control, but great stuff, and a history of injuries. Does the fact that Bard had all those awesome Peter Gammons reports? Similarly, what exactly is the difference between Michael Bowden and the other mid-level rotation candidates that the Rangers have? Even if you believe that he’s going to be Kevin Slowey rather than Jeff Suppan, do you think that the comparative ceiling is worth giving up one of your most valuable assets? What exactly does it accomplish? Fill out the current rotation in a year in which you likely aren’t trying to contend?
This type of horizontal movement is exactly what keeps bad teams bad. They give up assets for the sake of filling in holes with mid-level players and buying players at their highest value while giving up players at their lowest values. Now, if you believe that Michael Bowden will be better than his statistical profile shows and/or Saltalamacchia will never be more than what he is now, then yeah, you make that deal, but I don’t agree with your assessment of the players involved with, what I think, pretty solid statistical evidence.
So really, either produce some fucking links that at least somewhat verify the idea that Bowden+Bard for Salty was ever on the table or at least come with some analysis of why you believe Bowden will outperform his profile. Otherwise, save your tired Cahill impersonation. It’s fucking tiresome.
Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.
by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if murphy for jackson was on the table
and we didnt take it…ugh
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
david murphy > matt joyce
right?
Doctor please. Some more of these.
by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that deal wasn't offered
and no, Matt Joyce > David Murphy
Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.
by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how do you figure?
Doctor please. Some more of these.
by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Joyce
has a higher OPS in a worse (way worse) hitter’s park with a better defensive profile last season despite being 3 years younger than Murphy. He also is from the Tampa area, which has very little impact, but probably has some impact on the decision making. So yes, Matt joyce>David Murphy even without factoring in their minor league performance.
Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.
by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don't know what was and wasn't offered
I guess you just assume that numerous other teams can trade for pitching, but the Rangers, with numerous positional talent surplus are somehow unable to make a deal for pitching?
Doctor please. Some more of these.
by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It just seems unlikely
that the Rangers would have turned down a deal like that where they can trade an OF, which they’re set in, for a young pitcher under team control for a while who actually has a positive track record.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Apr 12, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell me real quick
what is the likelihood that Edwin jackson replicate his year last year? There’s a reason why a lot of people talked about the Jackson trade as a good one for Tampa Bay. The guy had a 4.90 FIP last year, his tRA was even worse at 5.58. At some point, you have to ask yourself if a deal is made for the sake of filling a rotation or if it’s actually beneficial for the team’s long term progress.
Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.
by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe you could have traded
Cat for Lincecum while you were at it.
"The idea that the Rangers are going to be a solid contender for a number of years is a fantasy." - Adam J. Morris
by DJCahill on Apr 13, 2009 4:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like that
well, they wished really hard. does that count? your statement probably should have read “management has just been awful at evaluating pitching”. but no, don’t say that around here, because every horrible decision they make was completely justifiable at the time.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on Apr 12, 2009 2:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
calm the fuck down fuck face
i was just making a statement, not apologizing for management. you want to bitch at someone, go find a sewing circle.
Ceterum censeo Cat esse delendam - Cahill the Elder
by ab03 on Apr 12, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lmao a sewing circle?
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wasn't going after you at all
i agree that they “wanted” those guys to work out, but a smart team has a viable plan b in case they don’t. in our case, our plan b consisted of Donnelly and Turnbow being brought in. I am all for taking a chance on guys like that, but when there are many better options on the cheap, why not spend 1.5M and actually solidify a spot or two. then, if CJ and Mag Dog come through, you have depth, which is never a bad thing.
and what is a sewing circle?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on Apr 12, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You break my balls
But you handle criticism like a sobbing little bitch.
It’s hard for me too, buddy. Just hang in there.
by brettgardner on Apr 12, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Andrus makes that play
and the Rangers win.
by SteveP on Apr 12, 2009 3:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
man
if cj doesn’t completely suck dick, the Rangers won. The difference is that Andrus sucked for one play, CJ managed to suck dick for 4 abs
by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
indeed.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Post game show worrying about davis and murphy and salty. How about you worry about the bullpen? The offense is not the problem. This host is starting to get on my nerves.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 3:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure why I ever should have had faith in him in the first place.
Around three years ago or so he seemed like maybe a decent filler for a bullpen, near the bottom of the depth chart of a solid relief corps, and maybe a LOOGY type guy.
That is the peak of my faith in him, and today was nothing new.
by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 3:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
healthy
Is CJ completely healthy?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
by RangerMad on Apr 12, 2009 3:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Other than his obvious mental issues ...
I think he’s supposed to be 100%.
by Athos on Apr 12, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mental toughness?
It’s what good late-inning guys have, and what CJ doesn’t! He is too interested in being hip and cool and Mr. Straightedge and twittering and all that crap. Speaking of Straightedge, that’s the kind of razor most Ranger fans want to use when he comes in a game!
"Who died and made you King?"
by randyd on Apr 12, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Daniel Bard would have played that differently.
by oc on Apr 12, 2009 3:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dan Miceli or Rudy Seanez woulda shut that sh!t DOWN, Jack.
by shroomer on Apr 12, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bring back ugie urbina!
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we do
when we tell someone to go die in a fire, we can just direct those requests to Ugie
Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.
by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
holy shit
is that genius or sick?
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Apr 12, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's one of those things
you chuckle into your hands about, but don’t admit you laughed at.
Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.
by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Miceli and Hunter, we'd be judo-chopping all kinds of Tiger ass
We wouldn’t be getting anybody out, but judo-chops are a close second!
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Apr 12, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure would like to know why...
…SBNation insists that I log in to create a new fanpost even though I’m obviously logged in, and then when I go to log in it won’t take it.
by Black Francis on Apr 12, 2009 3:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
8th inning
Wilson pitching. Inge homered to right on a 2-0 count.
Salty goes to the mound and reminds CJ that he has a 4 run lead and needs to throw strike. Next pitch is a HR. It happens
Everett singled to right.
Broken bat single.
Granderson safe on Andrus’ error, Everett to second.
Granderson hits the ball off the end of the bat that Andrus charges and tries to catch in the air. Definitely not a routine play. If he plays it on the hop then Granderson may have ended up with an IF single.
Polanco doubled to left, Everett scored, Granderson to third.
With MY playing in, polanco hits ball down 3B line for a 2B. How many doubles did the Tigers hit past MY this series?
Ordonez struck out.
Give CJ some credit here.
Cabrera was intentionally walked.
Guillen doubled to left, Granderson scored, Polanco scored, Cabrera to third.
This is the AB that really hurt. CJ had gotten a couple strikes on Guillen with breaking ball down and in. Thats where Guillen was looking and that is where CJ threw it. Salty had setup outside. Did CJ miss his spot?
Thames pinch-hitting for Larish. Madrigal pitching. Anderson pinch-running for Guillen. Thames was intentionally walked.
Laird struck out.
Did Madrigal even throw him a strike?
Inge singled to center, Cabrera scored, Anderson scored, Thames to second.
Moderately hard hit ball back up the middle. Karma? Or lack of it.
Everett popped out to shortstop Andrus.
To often it seems like ball are hit in just the right spot against the Ranger relievers. I understand the “pitch to contact” philosophy. But I don’t like it for relievers. And how many hard hit balls did the Tiger have these last two games?
Is CJ completely healthy? His velocity may have been down 1-2 mph. I am not sure we will ever see the 2007 CJ again. I recall him being able to tune it up to 93-94 mph.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
by RangerMad on Apr 12, 2009 3:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Complete Faith
If you take a look at it and u were really watching and paying attention he did absolutely everything he could have maybe the pitch selection on the slider to Guillen that he doubled on but other than that he pitched well. Honestly he should be in triple A getting stretched out so he could take benson’s spot in the rotation
Nobody punished like Earl and No one was nastier than Ryan
by Garcia34 on Apr 12, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No faith whatsoever
Support your local Scott Feldman
"Josh Hamilton doesn't act like he is Josh Hamilton. He acts like a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy named Josh Hamilton."
by Martijn1309 on Apr 12, 2009 3:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bad decision by Wash
Either leave Millwood in or pitcg Guardardo. I winced when they put in CJ with a 4-0 lead. The absolute last pitcher on the staff I want on the mound in that situation. Guardardo would have been my choice for the 8th.
by JTodd on Apr 12, 2009 3:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just about the only RP
that I would “trust” is FX2 right now. I am trying to figure out why CJ is the worst guy in the bullpen to bring into a game with a 4-0 lead and am even further confused as to why you think Guardado is the guy to have up there at that time.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Apr 12, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because CJ is so combustible. His standard deviation is very high. He can come in and strike three in a row or give 6 in 1/3 of an inning. When your ahead by 4 late in the ballgame all you need is to avoid a train wreck. CJ is the most likely to cause a t
by JTodd on Apr 13, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don't just demote your setup guy in the second series of the season
Ceterum censeo Cat esse delendam - Cahill the Elder
by ab03 on Apr 12, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just dont understand why you put him in a 4 run game if hes your setup guy
and hes been in 3 of the 5 games previously
its like cox using mike gonzalez in non save situatiosn in back to back days…wtf?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
according to BR
CJ pitched on Mon, Wed and Sat. Today was the first time this season that he worked on back-to-back days. Also, a 4 run game is a save situation for the Rangers. :) I actually think Wash should have brought in Frankie instead of Madrigal.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
by RangerMad on Apr 12, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
F CJ!!!!
That prick is too busy color coding his damn glove than forming a plan for when he comes in to a ball game.
Trade this guy or demote his ass all the way to Hickory!! Just send him some sort of message!!
by Aneel on Apr 12, 2009 4:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
because it worked with volquez and halladay
that means it shoudl work with anyone else?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU SAID IT!!!!!!!
YOU DE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Apr 12, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that it was a bad decision
It’s easy to “Monday-morning Quarterback” it though.
That being said, I would have probably left Millwood in another 1/3 to 2/3 inning, with Guardado finishing the inning and finishing the game with Fx2.
CJ is just so hit and miss. He’s either completely rocking it, or laying a big fat shit egg. And, just to gain some semblance of confidence before the next homestand, I don’t think I would have chanced it to CJ for that inning, especially after his melt-down.
Also, yes, some of those balls were lucky hits, but our defense on the left side needs to do something different. I don’t know what that would be quite yet, but there are some pretty costly mistakes happening.
However, I raise my Rolling Rock in confidence that the homestand will be amazing with lots of smash hits by our boys in RED!
In memory of Nick Adenhart.
by ajbrandt1 on Apr 12, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We might be like the NL west last year.
How many games did it take to win that division? 84?
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 5:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Something like that.
Although, it would be hard to make it past the divisional series going up against something like a Boston or a NY or even a TB
In memory of Nick Adenhart.
by ajbrandt1 on Apr 12, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would just be happy to actually go to a playoff game.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to just get a W tomorrow.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
by RangerMad on Apr 12, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyway, as for CJ...
I totally missed the game (Easter shindig at church) but let me just say I’m not surprised at all to hear he’s blown a lead in the 8th inning. The guy has good stuff, and can be lights out at times, but he’s also going to be extremely erratic. He really needs to be paired with someone else in the late innings, and used more exclusively against left-handers. We’re really feeling the loss of Jack Benny right now, having to rely exclusively on CJ for the 8th – I was one of the ones who thought we didn’t need Juan Cruz back when we had a shot at him, but at this point I think it’s time to admit AJM was right: passing on Cruz was a mistake. It cost us today’s game, and as long as CJ’s our best 8th inning option, it’s going to cost us a few more.
by lonestarJon on Apr 12, 2009 6:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
CJ
I really think he probably should be put in less high leverage situations until he straightens it out some. maybe 7th inning and some 8th here and there. The big problem is the rangers dont have a shut down 8th inning guy right now.
And yeah, one game cj is just lights out and the next he walks a bunch or gives up some hard hits.
I was listening today on the radio as i wasnt near a tv and it sounded like today was a case of just awful luck (kind of like the entire trip to detroit). But i didn’t witness it with my eyes so i can’t say for certain how it looked.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
looked bad.
There was some lucky hits and then elvis made an error but still CJ was not good at all. It’s all in his head I think.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
As long as he’s sitting in the low 90s, I think he is afraid to use his fastball.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Apr 12, 2009 6:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Inge:
2-5 lifetime off of Frank Francisco, 2 K, 2 RBI… .800 OPS… small sample size, whatever.
0-2 lifetime off of Warner Madrigal, 1 BB, 1 K
And obviously Gerald Laird has faced nobody in the Rangers bullpen.
So, I guess that is the situation Washington was faced with when deciding who to bring in to relieve Wilson. You’d think Frankie would have been a better option… but….
by oc on Apr 12, 2009 9:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You know who C.J. reminds me of?
Doug FREAKING Davis. Another lefty with a lot of talent, but a 10 cent head. Davis eventually figured it out a little (although I would argue that it was more going to the NL than anything), but he still never lived up to his potential.
It’s not so much of “he’s the only guy that we can roll out there right now”, but more of one that he really needs to get his head right…and if that means AAA or long relief, then try that. Hell…put him in the #4-5 rotation slot and let him work out his issues that way.
Something needs to be done…and something drastic.
I'd love for part of the "new look" to be a return to the red uniforms of the 1990s. - Ian Kinsler
by ortonius on Apr 12, 2009 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Doug Davis
was only a league average pitcher while here. When he left, he became a slightly better than league average pitcher.
Doug Davis was the classic case of this organization not knowing shit when it comes to pitching.
"The idea that the Rangers are going to be a solid contender for a number of years is a fantasy." - Adam J. Morris
by DJCahill on Apr 13, 2009 4:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Completely Ridiculous
Most of the people on here crying about CJ are complete A Holes period. He really didn’t pitch all that bad, just bad luck and to give up on him after 6 games is ridiculous
Nobody punished like Earl and No one was nastier than Ryan
by Garcia34 on Apr 12, 2009 11:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
People having emotional connections
With players like this is mind-boggling to me.
by brettgardner on Apr 12, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What
If your trying to say that I have an emotional connection with CJ thats just bull I just didn’t come away from that game thinking this is all his fault.
Nobody punished like Earl and No one was nastier than Ryan
by Garcia34 on Apr 13, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good lord.
Please use punctuation. I can’t understand what you’re trying to say.
by brettgardner on Apr 13, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not giving up after 6 games...
There’s a shitpile evidence, years’ worth in fact, that shows it is time to cut bait.
by bhudson on Apr 13, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

by 
















