Lone Star Ball: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: The Boxing Bulletin for Boxing Fans!

Has anyone else lost faith in CJ?

Has anyone else lost faith in CJ?  I didn't have much coming into the season and I've lost that.  He looks like the same guy as last year ... and that's a bad thing.  He's talented but doesn't seem to have a clue out there.

He doesn't need to see the 8th inning anytime soon.  I'd recommend sending him to AAA if there was somebody ... anybody ... ready to take his spot on the roster. 

0 recs  |  Comment 136 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Yes.

He does not belong out there. I would not mind seeing the Rangers draft someone with their # 1 pick that is a college reliever that can be a setup guy or in the big leagues next year to help out in the bullpen. Our bullpen needs major help.

TCU are going to bust through the BCS this season.......

by Monkey Brain on Apr 12, 2009 2:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I couldn't agree more.

Your statement that he doesn’t belong out there right now is dead on. I just wish we had other options to replace him. Unfortunately, we just don’t right now.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Apr 12, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

College Relievers

Drafting a college reliever is just a bad idea. We have so many pitchers in the minors that will fill that role in the future. That it is just an unnecessary waste of a draft pick when we need to be focusing on high ceiling players with premium picks. I could write a huge rant about this but will leave it at that bare minimum.

This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC

by nikpin on Apr 12, 2009 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ugly game

but he is still probably one of our better relievers.

"The idea that the Rangers are going to be a solid contender for a number of years is a fantasy." - Adam J. Morris

by DJCahill on Apr 12, 2009 2:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

As long as nothing goes wrong when he is out there

He seems to do fine until someone reaches base or an error is made. Then he completely melts down and can’t work out of the jam.

by uthornfan on Apr 12, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see many of our relievers

coming back from something gone wrong. As soon as any of them, maybe excepting Frankie, starts running into problems, I say yank em. I don’t trust them to pitch themselves out of self induced problems.

"The idea that the Rangers are going to be a solid contender for a number of years is a fantasy." - Adam J. Morris

by DJCahill on Apr 12, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

should have signed juan cruz.

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 2:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't say that!

People will get upset about you saying things the Rangers should have done that make sense because it makes you disloyal!

by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

im not TOO worried about it

had they signed him im sure wash would have still used jennigs > cruz in the late innings

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

heh

Josh Hamilton puts his pants on one leg at a time just like you but once he gets his pants on he hits baseballs 420 feet.

by BigGuns on Apr 12, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

all too often

that seems to be the case, you’re correct.

Doctor please. Some more of these.

by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think thats a load of crap

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This game was so frustrating

There is no way they should have lost this game.

Keith Law on Greg Golson, "He's similiar to Cameron and Hunter in that all three are black."
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage

by boomer1 on Apr 12, 2009 2:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree with uthornfan

You can easily see the stress and failure in his face. He may have a world of talent but if it’s missing upstairs, it doesn’t matter.

II Cor. 4:17-18

by TedFord on Apr 12, 2009 2:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yep

Keith Law on Greg Golson, "He's similiar to Cameron and Hunter in that all three are black."
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage

by boomer1 on Apr 12, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Apr 12, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

lol it really is sad

cause he’s got the talent.

I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'

by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope. I have absolute faith in him.

He’s pitched in 4 of the first 6 games and just pitched in back to back games. He should not have been out there today.

"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.

The 2008-2009 Dallas Mavericks are the biggest teases in the world.

by sprite on Apr 12, 2009 2:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

really

you are blaming this on fatigue?

Ceterum censeo Cat esse delendam - Cahill the Elder

by ab03 on Apr 12, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep.

If it was any other pitcher in the bp the same thing would have happened.

"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.

The 2008-2009 Dallas Mavericks are the biggest teases in the world.

by sprite on Apr 12, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

this begs the question

as to why in the hell you pitch anyone in the pen 4 of the first 6 games

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

b/c wash is dumb?

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Apr 12, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's dumb

is taking a reliever that was awful last year, and league average the year before that and keep making excuses for him.

by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd say his 2007 season was better than league average

2008 however was not so good.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would say it wasn't.

97 tRA+.

At the most I could settle for saying it was close enough that he was maybe average.

by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

see you pick tra+ and it happens to support your case

but lets say i go with era+ and it supports that he was better than average. (2007 era+ of 149)
you also happen to ignore his good tra+ for 2006 and 2005 (105 and 126)

it doesnt matter the argument, someone always finds some stat to support it.

i will say if you look at his career splits overall vs lefties and righties it would indicate that he would make a very good loogy

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's because

ERA+ is often a flawed stat – so is tRA+, but less so. What does his FIP+ look like?

Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.

by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

see... everyone has their own stat they like

side note, how the hell can his 05 season be considered that good by tra+??
thats when he was still coming off surgery and rushed by buck.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the best way

to measure his year is probably analysis of both tRA and FIP+ stats.

Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.

by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This makes a bit of sense.

But I’ll always lean towards tRA because I don’t like that FIP throws its hands up and decides pitchers have no control over whether they give up harmless ground balls or hard line drives. I do think there’s such a thing as inducing poor contact.

by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure

stats back that conclusion. It’s more about the batters when it comes to LD% than hitters

Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.

by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have seen enough "Baseball Games"

To know that pitchers who locate the ball well and/or have good movement are difficult to hit harder. Hell I’ve played in enough games to know that.

That said, when a batter’s on a roll, all bets are off. Generally speaking, though…

by Black Francis on Apr 13, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't think there's such a thing as pitchers who pitch to induce weak contact?

Like, you think a ground ball is just luck, and no pitcher is better at getting them than another?

by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think GB%

is different for LD%. GB% is absolutely a part of a pitcher’s ability, but what determines if a player turns over or just miss a fastball vs. driving it into RF. I think it’s the player that determines what he does with a pitch, not the pitcher.

Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.

by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take tRA over FIP.

Because I do believe — and the evidence behind tRA shows — that pitchers do have control over what form of contact they give up.

But I’ll take FIP over ERA. There’s really not a lot of reason to look at ERA when there are two vastly-superior, support-neutral stats freely available at great sites.

by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

then explain the tra+ comment i made

you totally ignored your stats supporting he had a good 05 and 06. and he clearly did NOT have a good 05

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How is it clear that he didn't have a good 05?

In any case, notice his tRA* is much higher. He had MUCH higher ground ball rates and much lower fly ball rates than his career following. It was possibly flukey, but it’s still not clear he didn’t have a good ‘05. I’m not sure why that would be clear.

I didn’t ignore it, I had no reason to care. What makes it clear he wasn’t good that year?

by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

did you see the 05 season?

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he got drilled

granted he shouldnt have even been out there

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why would you go with ERA+ over tRA+?

I don’t look for stats to reinforce my belief. I look for stats to help form my belief.

You seem to be doing the former here.

by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stats

I like the park adjusted era, i also value ops+

i’ve seen far too many cases of “so and so sucks just look at x” “yeah but x shows they rock”
no matter what something is somewhere to show that someone is good or bad and someone else wont value it.
i think you guys are dismissing far too much what a guy like cj actually did in the past

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or, to elaborate.

Why do you like OPS more than something that doesn’t weight OBP as equal to SLG? Or more than something that includes linear weights?

Why do you prefer ERA to something that adjusts for fielding, which has a huge affect on pitchers. Or that doesn’t inflate or deflate a reliever’s value the way a stat merely designed around runs allowed that weren’t determined to be the fault of a fielder by the official scorer (when we know errors are a very bad way to evaluate defense)? A LOOGY coming in and giving up a single and then leaving the game had a terrible outing, but he’s going to have a 0.00 ERA.

by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sigh...

im done, i’m not as stat heady as you obviously.
i look at thinks like k9 bb9, etc.
i like using ops for my hitters,

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay, so you don't like spending as much time looking at stats.

That’s perfectly fine. And, in fact, OPS+ isn’t bad for that purpose. But if someone looks at something that has a little more information in it, surely you can think they may have a point instead of assuming they’re wrong because it doesn’t agree with OPS+, right?

And as far as liking strike outs and walks for pitchers, I would think FIP would be your thing, then. Not that FIP is bad, I just see too much evidence suggesting pitchers can control the caliber of contact allowed.

Again, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with not being a stat person, but you should understand the shortcomings of ERA. TRA and FIP both have shortcomings, as well, but they do take more info in to account than ERA.

by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i never said you were wrong because you like tra+

i went and looked at that stat, and i saw he had good stats in the past for that excluding 08.
i’ve looked at the fip and it wasnt send him to aaa awful.

but i also remember performances ive seen.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As far as the rest of your post. . .
i’ve seen far too many cases of "so and so sucks just look at x" "yeah but x shows they rock"

Well, yeah. Not all stats measure the same thing, and for that reason, some stats are more useless than others. Just because two stats differ doesn’t mean one or both of them are wrong. It may well mean one is flawed and the other is more accurate. So in your example, one person may be looking at better information than the other.

no matter what something is somewhere to show that someone is good or bad and someone else wont value it.

So what you should value is the people with the most logical and reliable information. Not the people who find the right stat to support their argument.

I really like the quote about the lamp post as stats, being used for “support rather than illumination.” The people you describe are looking for a stat to suppor their preconcieved notion. They are idiots. The folks you should be spending your valuable time talking to, the people you should listen to, and the kind of person everyone should be, is one who looks at stats to inform their opinion, not support it. You pull them out as support after you’ve already been educated.

i think you guys are dismissing far too much what a guy like cj actually did in the past

And I think you’re overrating what he did in the recent past. Where does that leave us?

by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think you underrate

your own stat you quote supports he was better in past years but you choose to say 08 and 07 he sucked.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, yes, he was once pretty good.

But in ‘05 there’s some evidence to suggest it was flukey. Considering he hasn’t even approached that in recent history, wouldn’t it make sense if I’m looking at the entire body of evidence and weighing more towards recent performances than blindly assuming 2005 is the guy he really is?

by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well why would you take a chance on burning out one of your few RP

who have EVER had any luck at the major league level

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what dan said

there is absolutely no one at this point that could replace him if we sent him down. maybe you could use jennings or madrigal in the setup role, but is anybody really ok with that? assuming you could just take that job away, you realyl cant’ do anythign else.

Ceterum censeo Cat esse delendam - Cahill the Elder

by ab03 on Apr 12, 2009 2:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

CJ? maybe

management? yes. if they cleaned house tomorrow i wouldn’t bat an eye. this team could be good, but they will suffer many more losses like this because they have no bullpen. the atlanta braves, run by smart men with disposable money, completely overhauled their pitching staff this offseason. the rangers mgmt only needed two legit bullpen arms to field a competitive team, and they decided not to.

so yeah, fuck them.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Apr 12, 2009 2:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i think management wanted CJ and Madrigal and others to work out

fukumori last year, CJ this year. management has just been awful at evaluating 8th inning setup guys

Ceterum censeo Cat esse delendam - Cahill the Elder

by ab03 on Apr 12, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually

management has been pretty poor at evaluating ML pitching period. Not just setup guys.

Doctor please. Some more of these.

by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the thing

is that you should consider pitching in general — not ML but minors also

who gets the praise for ricroc for padilla?
signing/trading for the minor league guys?
picking up madrigal/strop?
franKKK?

dont use danks/gallarraga as “good examples” either – NO one saw gallaraga as being anywhere near league average and danks was NOT good before he learned the cutter, and if he hadnt no one would even be talking about how we “mis evaluated” danks

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

why did it take some other team to teach him a cutter?

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Apr 12, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

right but how do you blame the front office for that

or do you chalk this one up to kenny williams being brillant?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

when you take the league’s worst pitching staff, then add Kris Benson and Jason Jennings – guess what you are left with? The league’s worst pitching staff, that’s what.

JD’s decision to not upgrade the pitching staff continues to puzzle me. We keep hearing that better defense will help the pitching, or better conditioning will help the pitching, or a new pitching coach will improve the pitching, or this or that will help the pitching. How about this for a novel idea…improve the pitching by bringing in some more talented pitchers.

Doctor please. Some more of these.

by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what would you have liked to see him do?

if they sign sheets and hes healthy, its a totally different situation

if they signed cruz (feel like that has to be a hicks/$$ thing, right?) its a different situation?

CC, AJ burnett, etc werent coming here

what moves should they have made?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've yet to hear you say what JD should have done

What moves would you have made, Todd?

I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.

"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales

by Brian Thomas on Apr 12, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

signed Juan Cruz for the bullpen

traded Salty for Bowden and Bard

traded David Murphy for Edwin Jackson

Doctor please. Some more of these.

by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Juan Cruz should have happened

Not sure that saves this team’s season, but it would have helped.

Salty for Bowden and Bard is dumb and also possibly never on the table from the Red Sox. I know you love Max though so trying to talk you out of trading Salty for anything that lets Max play is pointless.

I would have loved Murphy for a Rays pitcher. Again, not sure if that was ever on the table.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Apr 12, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well of course, none of us know what deals were or weren't on the table

What I was trying to get across is that I would have moved our surplus at C and OF for pitching. The Rays traded Jackson for what appears to be a lesser talent than Murphy, so I think it’s reasonable to think that deal could have happened. Not sure why you think the Salty deal is dumb, but personally I don’t think he is ever going to be a real asset, so I would have moved him for good value – and a near ready late inning reliever and a near ready mid rotation starter seems like real good value to me.

Doctor please. Some more of these.

by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because we don't know if it was ever one the table

the deal is dumb because you give up something at its lowest value for two pitchers at pretty close to their peak value after great year in the minors.

Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.

by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think you know what the hell you are talking about.

Doctor please. Some more of these.

by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I think

what you’re suggesting the Rangers do is the exact same fucking thing the Rangers has always done – covet similarly profile pitchers rather than accumulate assets to get that true difference maker.

Seriously, what is the difference between Daniel Bard and, say, someone like Pedro Strop? They’re both pitchers with iffy control, but great stuff, and a history of injuries. Does the fact that Bard had all those awesome Peter Gammons reports? Similarly, what exactly is the difference between Michael Bowden and the other mid-level rotation candidates that the Rangers have? Even if you believe that he’s going to be Kevin Slowey rather than Jeff Suppan, do you think that the comparative ceiling is worth giving up one of your most valuable assets? What exactly does it accomplish? Fill out the current rotation in a year in which you likely aren’t trying to contend?

This type of horizontal movement is exactly what keeps bad teams bad. They give up assets for the sake of filling in holes with mid-level players and buying players at their highest value while giving up players at their lowest values. Now, if you believe that Michael Bowden will be better than his statistical profile shows and/or Saltalamacchia will never be more than what he is now, then yeah, you make that deal, but I don’t agree with your assessment of the players involved with, what I think, pretty solid statistical evidence.

So really, either produce some fucking links that at least somewhat verify the idea that Bowden+Bard for Salty was ever on the table or at least come with some analysis of why you believe Bowden will outperform his profile. Otherwise, save your tired Cahill impersonation. It’s fucking tiresome.

Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.

by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if murphy for jackson was on the table

and we didnt take it…ugh

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

david murphy > matt joyce

right?

Doctor please. Some more of these.

by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But that deal wasn't offered

and no, Matt Joyce > David Murphy

Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.

by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

how do you figure?

Doctor please. Some more of these.

by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matt Joyce

has a higher OPS in a worse (way worse) hitter’s park with a better defensive profile last season despite being 3 years younger than Murphy. He also is from the Tampa area, which has very little impact, but probably has some impact on the decision making. So yes, Matt joyce>David Murphy even without factoring in their minor league performance.

Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.

by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you don't know what was and wasn't offered

I guess you just assume that numerous other teams can trade for pitching, but the Rangers, with numerous positional talent surplus are somehow unable to make a deal for pitching?

Doctor please. Some more of these.

by tricer on Apr 12, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It just seems unlikely

that the Rangers would have turned down a deal like that where they can trade an OF, which they’re set in, for a young pitcher under team control for a while who actually has a positive track record.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Apr 12, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tell me real quick

what is the likelihood that Edwin jackson replicate his year last year? There’s a reason why a lot of people talked about the Jackson trade as a good one for Tampa Bay. The guy had a 4.90 FIP last year, his tRA was even worse at 5.58. At some point, you have to ask yourself if a deal is made for the sake of filling a rotation or if it’s actually beneficial for the team’s long term progress.

Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.

by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe you could have traded

Cat for Lincecum while you were at it.

"The idea that the Rangers are going to be a solid contender for a number of years is a fantasy." - Adam J. Morris

by DJCahill on Apr 13, 2009 4:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i like that

well, they wished really hard. does that count? your statement probably should have read “management has just been awful at evaluating pitching”. but no, don’t say that around here, because every horrible decision they make was completely justifiable at the time.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Apr 12, 2009 2:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

sorry

i thought i hit reply. i am probably too flustered to really be around here at all.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Apr 12, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

calm the fuck down fuck face

i was just making a statement, not apologizing for management. you want to bitch at someone, go find a sewing circle.

Ceterum censeo Cat esse delendam - Cahill the Elder

by ab03 on Apr 12, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i wasn't going after you at all

i agree that they “wanted” those guys to work out, but a smart team has a viable plan b in case they don’t. in our case, our plan b consisted of Donnelly and Turnbow being brought in. I am all for taking a chance on guys like that, but when there are many better options on the cheap, why not spend 1.5M and actually solidify a spot or two. then, if CJ and Mag Dog come through, you have depth, which is never a bad thing.

and what is a sewing circle?

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Apr 12, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly!

Josh Hamilton puts his pants on one leg at a time just like you but once he gets his pants on he hits baseballs 420 feet.

by BigGuns on Apr 12, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You break my balls

But you handle criticism like a sobbing little bitch.

It’s hard for me too, buddy. Just hang in there.

by brettgardner on Apr 12, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

man

if cj doesn’t completely suck dick, the Rangers won. The difference is that Andrus sucked for one play, CJ managed to suck dick for 4 abs

by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

indeed.

I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'

by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

Post game show worrying about davis and murphy and salty. How about you worry about the bullpen? The offense is not the problem. This host is starting to get on my nerves.

I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'

by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 3:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No shit

Keith Law on Greg Golson, "He's similiar to Cameron and Hunter in that all three are black."
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage

by boomer1 on Apr 12, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure why I ever should have had faith in him in the first place.

Around three years ago or so he seemed like maybe a decent filler for a bullpen, near the bottom of the depth chart of a solid relief corps, and maybe a LOOGY type guy.

That is the peak of my faith in him, and today was nothing new.

by philkid3 on Apr 12, 2009 3:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

healthy

Is CJ completely healthy?

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Apr 12, 2009 3:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Other than his obvious mental issues ...

I think he’s supposed to be 100%.

by Athos on Apr 12, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mental toughness?

It’s what good late-inning guys have, and what CJ doesn’t! He is too interested in being hip and cool and Mr. Straightedge and twittering and all that crap. Speaking of Straightedge, that’s the kind of razor most Ranger fans want to use when he comes in a game!

"Who died and made you King?"

by randyd on Apr 12, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want

Alfonseca back!

"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.

The 2008-2009 Dallas Mavericks are the biggest teases in the world.

by sprite on Apr 12, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

bring back ugie urbina!

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we do

when we tell someone to go die in a fire, we can just direct those requests to Ugie

Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.

by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

heh

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

holy shit

is that genius or sick?

mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.

by Jayslick on Apr 12, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's one of those things

you chuckle into your hands about, but don’t admit you laughed at.

Marcus Lemon is the Third Baseman/Leadoff Hitter of the future.

by FirebatM3 on Apr 12, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

With Miceli and Hunter, we'd be judo-chopping all kinds of Tiger ass

We wouldn’t be getting anybody out, but judo-chops are a close second!

I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.

"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales

by Brian Thomas on Apr 12, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure would like to know why...

…SBNation insists that I log in to create a new fanpost even though I’m obviously logged in, and then when I go to log in it won’t take it.

by Black Francis on Apr 12, 2009 3:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

8th inning

Wilson pitching. Inge homered to right on a 2-0 count.
Salty goes to the mound and reminds CJ that he has a 4 run lead and needs to throw strike. Next pitch is a HR. It happens

Everett singled to right.
Broken bat single.

Granderson safe on Andrus’ error, Everett to second.
Granderson hits the ball off the end of the bat that Andrus charges and tries to catch in the air. Definitely not a routine play. If he plays it on the hop then Granderson may have ended up with an IF single.

Polanco doubled to left, Everett scored, Granderson to third.
With MY playing in, polanco hits ball down 3B line for a 2B. How many doubles did the Tigers hit past MY this series?

Ordonez struck out.
Give CJ some credit here.

Cabrera was intentionally walked.

Guillen doubled to left, Granderson scored, Polanco scored, Cabrera to third.
This is the AB that really hurt. CJ had gotten a couple strikes on Guillen with breaking ball down and in. Thats where Guillen was looking and that is where CJ threw it. Salty had setup outside. Did CJ miss his spot?

Thames pinch-hitting for Larish. Madrigal pitching. Anderson pinch-running for Guillen. Thames was intentionally walked.

Laird struck out.
Did Madrigal even throw him a strike?

Inge singled to center, Cabrera scored, Anderson scored, Thames to second.
Moderately hard hit ball back up the middle. Karma? Or lack of it.
 
Everett popped out to shortstop Andrus.

To often it seems like ball are hit in just the right spot against the Ranger relievers. I understand the “pitch to contact” philosophy. But I don’t like it for relievers. And how many hard hit balls did the Tiger have these last two games?

Is CJ completely healthy? His velocity may have been down 1-2 mph. I am not sure we will ever see the 2007 CJ again. I recall him being able to tune it up to 93-94 mph.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Apr 12, 2009 3:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Complete Faith

If you take a look at it and u were really watching and paying attention he did absolutely everything he could have maybe the pitch selection on the slider to Guillen that he doubled on but other than that he pitched well. Honestly he should be in triple A getting stretched out so he could take benson’s spot in the rotation

Nobody punished like Earl and No one was nastier than Ryan

by Garcia34 on Apr 12, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No faith whatsoever

Support your local Scott Feldman

"Josh Hamilton doesn't act like he is Josh Hamilton. He acts like a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy named Josh Hamilton."

by Martijn1309 on Apr 12, 2009 3:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Bad decision by Wash

Either leave Millwood in or pitcg Guardardo. I winced when they put in CJ with a 4-0 lead. The absolute last pitcher on the staff I want on the mound in that situation. Guardardo would have been my choice for the 8th.

by JTodd on Apr 12, 2009 3:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Just about the only RP

that I would “trust” is FX2 right now. I am trying to figure out why CJ is the worst guy in the bullpen to bring into a game with a 4-0 lead and am even further confused as to why you think Guardado is the guy to have up there at that time.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Apr 12, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i just dont understand why you put him in a 4 run game if hes your setup guy

and hes been in 3 of the 5 games previously

its like cox using mike gonzalez in non save situatiosn in back to back days…wtf?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

according to BR

CJ pitched on Mon, Wed and Sat. Today was the first time this season that he worked on back-to-back days. Also, a 4 run game is a save situation for the Rangers. :) I actually think Wash should have brought in Frankie instead of Madrigal.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Apr 12, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

F CJ!!!!

That prick is too busy color coding his damn glove than forming a plan for when he comes in to a ball game.

Trade this guy or demote his ass all the way to Hickory!! Just send him some sort of message!!

by Aneel on Apr 12, 2009 4:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

because it worked with volquez and halladay

that means it shoudl work with anyone else?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 12, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU SAID IT!!!!!!!

YOU DE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.

"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales

by Brian Thomas on Apr 12, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that it was a bad decision

It’s easy to “Monday-morning Quarterback” it though.

That being said, I would have probably left Millwood in another 1/3 to 2/3 inning, with Guardado finishing the inning and finishing the game with Fx2.

CJ is just so hit and miss. He’s either completely rocking it, or laying a big fat shit egg. And, just to gain some semblance of confidence before the next homestand, I don’t think I would have chanced it to CJ for that inning, especially after his melt-down.

Also, yes, some of those balls were lucky hits, but our defense on the left side needs to do something different. I don’t know what that would be quite yet, but there are some pretty costly mistakes happening.

However, I raise my Rolling Rock in confidence that the homestand will be amazing with lots of smash hits by our boys in RED!

In memory of Nick Adenhart.

by ajbrandt1 on Apr 12, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We might be like the NL west last year.

How many games did it take to win that division? 84?

I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'

by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 5:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Something like that.

Although, it would be hard to make it past the divisional series going up against something like a Boston or a NY or even a TB

In memory of Nick Adenhart.

by ajbrandt1 on Apr 12, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would like to just get a W tomorrow.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Apr 12, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed

I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'

by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyway, as for CJ...

I totally missed the game (Easter shindig at church) but let me just say I’m not surprised at all to hear he’s blown a lead in the 8th inning. The guy has good stuff, and can be lights out at times, but he’s also going to be extremely erratic. He really needs to be paired with someone else in the late innings, and used more exclusively against left-handers. We’re really feeling the loss of Jack Benny right now, having to rely exclusively on CJ for the 8th – I was one of the ones who thought we didn’t need Juan Cruz back when we had a shot at him, but at this point I think it’s time to admit AJM was right: passing on Cruz was a mistake. It cost us today’s game, and as long as CJ’s our best 8th inning option, it’s going to cost us a few more.

by lonestarJon on Apr 12, 2009 6:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

CJ

I really think he probably should be put in less high leverage situations until he straightens it out some. maybe 7th inning and some 8th here and there. The big problem is the rangers dont have a shut down 8th inning guy right now.
And yeah, one game cj is just lights out and the next he walks a bunch or gives up some hard hits.

I was listening today on the radio as i wasnt near a tv and it sounded like today was a case of just awful luck (kind of like the entire trip to detroit). But i didn’t witness it with my eyes so i can’t say for certain how it looked.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Apr 12, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

looked bad.

There was some lucky hits and then elvis made an error but still CJ was not good at all. It’s all in his head I think.

I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'

by iorange555 on Apr 12, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

As long as he’s sitting in the low 90s, I think he is afraid to use his fastball.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Apr 12, 2009 6:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Brandon Inge:

2-5 lifetime off of Frank Francisco, 2 K, 2 RBI… .800 OPS… small sample size, whatever.

0-2 lifetime off of Warner Madrigal, 1 BB, 1 K

And obviously Gerald Laird has faced nobody in the Rangers bullpen.

So, I guess that is the situation Washington was faced with when deciding who to bring in to relieve Wilson. You’d think Frankie would have been a better option… but….

by oc on Apr 12, 2009 9:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You know who C.J. reminds me of?

Doug FREAKING Davis. Another lefty with a lot of talent, but a 10 cent head. Davis eventually figured it out a little (although I would argue that it was more going to the NL than anything), but he still never lived up to his potential.

It’s not so much of “he’s the only guy that we can roll out there right now”, but more of one that he really needs to get his head right…and if that means AAA or long relief, then try that. Hell…put him in the #4-5 rotation slot and let him work out his issues that way.

Something needs to be done…and something drastic.

I'd love for part of the "new look" to be a return to the red uniforms of the 1990s. - Ian Kinsler

by ortonius on Apr 12, 2009 9:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Doug Davis

was only a league average pitcher while here. When he left, he became a slightly better than league average pitcher.

Doug Davis was the classic case of this organization not knowing shit when it comes to pitching.

"The idea that the Rangers are going to be a solid contender for a number of years is a fantasy." - Adam J. Morris

by DJCahill on Apr 13, 2009 4:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Completely Ridiculous

Most of the people on here crying about CJ are complete A Holes period. He really didn’t pitch all that bad, just bad luck and to give up on him after 6 games is ridiculous

Nobody punished like Earl and No one was nastier than Ryan

by Garcia34 on Apr 12, 2009 11:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

People having emotional connections

With players like this is mind-boggling to me.

by brettgardner on Apr 12, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What

If your trying to say that I have an emotional connection with CJ thats just bull I just didn’t come away from that game thinking this is all his fault.

Nobody punished like Earl and No one was nastier than Ryan

by Garcia34 on Apr 13, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good lord.

Please use punctuation. I can’t understand what you’re trying to say.

by brettgardner on Apr 13, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not giving up after 6 games...

There’s a shitpile evidence, years’ worth in fact, that shows it is time to cut bait.

by bhudson on Apr 13, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Texas Rangers.
Start posting about the Rangers »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Andrus_jersey2_small
Scheppers and Gutierrez - AFL Rising Stars Game

Recent FanPosts

Roger_the_alien_american_dad_small
Josh Johnson Available?
Ochomerun_small
Who is Josey Wales?
Marion_small
Mavs GDT 11/20/09
Ebbsfleet_united_logo_small
Three way deal only works if...
Small
OT: The global warming hoax exposed?
Img_0225_2_small
Pertinent Fangraphs Articles
Texas-rangers-logo-2_small
Frankie Piliere scouting for fans now
Img_0225_2_small
Rangers AFL Review
Whas_small
Per Jayson Stark - Rangers interested in Uggla
Hicks060509_small
Lincecum wins NL Cy Young

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS


Managers

Th_buckykatt_small Adam J. Morris