OT: A letter from one brother to the next -
by SMITTY on Apr 20, 2009 9:22 AM CDT
48 comments
I was the President of a Fraternity in California back in 2002, and I'm still on the list serve, so I get emails from the guys here and there about Rush events, parties, job inquiries, etc. And though I'm no longer present, or attend any of the alumni or actives events, I do get their emails, and read them from time to time. This one struck me pretty hard, and its crazy what a small world it is we live in. This is a letetr he wrote to his brothers in the fraternity, and I think it rings true for all. Read on...
"As some of you know my brother is in serious condition at the hospital because of a drunk driver. I have been watching him at night and early morning in his ICU room and have done so not knowing if he will live through the night on a few occasions. When I found out last Thursday of the crash, I drove from San Marcos to Irvine thinking I had lost my brother, Jon, the whole way. We were told last thursday by the Doctor that they were very concerned about survival. He recently got his breathing tube taken out and I have seen him struggle to take every breath for the last two days. He was internally decapitated, which means his spine had broken away from his skull. He also has a broken pelvis, shoulder, ribs, and vertebras in his back, along with whatever else the doctors have not found. I have been by my brother’s side the whole time, and seen things that no brother should have to see someone they love go through. On top of these things three others were killed in the crash, one being a close family friend, the other being a friend I have met visiting my brother in Fullerton, and the other a professional baseball player for the Angels having his career cut entirely too short. The girl from Fullerton including the family friend also had many things going for them such as law school, being bright young individuals, and for sure having successful futures ahead of them. My brother was a baseball player at Cal State Fullerton and we do not know the extent of damage done to his brain or his spinal cord. Going from a very good division one baseball school to possibly having trouble just walking or thinking. In other words there were four people in a car that had a lot to live for, and a man decided to drink, get behind the wheel, and he killed 3 of those dreams, and who knows for the 4th, my brother.
If you have a brother, a sister, mother, father, or just anyone that you care for, do not drink and drive, EVER. As far as I am concerned after seeing what I have seen my brother go through this last week, you are no better than this man that has hurt Jon and killed three others if you get behind the wheel drunk. He is up for three counts of murder, he IS a murderer. Some of you may not like what I have to say about this but if you drink and drive you are potential murderer too, along with many other words I could very easily use at this point, that I do not need to mention. You are not only a murderer but a terrible friend and brother to me, doing what has almost killed my brother, my best friend, after I told you not to. You are potentially pulling the trigger of a gun with a 2,000 pound bullet in the chamber. If you can live with yourself potentially killing others because you did not want to leave your car out, or for whatever other reason, then I do not want to call you a friend or a brother. I am very pissed off about this situation and will never tolerate drinking and driving. If you care about me as your brother in this fraternity, your friend, or have a heart for what my family and I are going through, you will think about what you do the next time you drink. I hope you are all having a good Saturday night and being safe while I am in ICU all night hoping and praying. This is not an attack on anyone in this fraternity, just hoping to open up some eyes, just half as much as mine have been opened. If you all saw what I have seen in the last eight days, there is no chance you would even consider getting behind the wheel after some drinks.
Yours,
Chad"
Sad event, I had no idea his brother was in that car crash - prayers to the family.
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I wonder if your brother has ever exceeded the speed limit
If so, by his own logic, he’s no better than a murderer, either.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Apr 20, 2009 5:06 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
The audacity
of courage. Yours is appreciated.
I had a secret meeting in the basement of my brain.
by red shoe ranger on Apr 20, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohh.
Words cannot express how esteem-crushing it is to have my entire assertion shredded to bits by such a devastating ad hominem attack. And from a size-large intellectual heavy hitter, to boot.
If name-calling is all your feeble-acumened ass has, so be it. If it isn’t, now would be a good time to prove so.
I stand behind my original contention.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Apr 20, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're being ridiculous
you are claiming that driving 5 miles over the speed limit and drunk driving are equivalent or nearly equal acts. And by being so absurdly stupid, you’re being extremely insensitive to the author of this e-mail.
by Agreen07 on Apr 20, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I'm addressing the asanine logic that is so prevalent in today's PC lynch mob
First off, the author of this email is not a member of LSB. in fact Smitty implied he never even met him. So that’s irrelevant to this discussion.
Second, the claim of Smitty’s brother is simple: If you drive after consuming alcohol, you are as good as a murderer.
Ok then. What else is a conscious choice that costs thousands of highway fatalities each year (and more than drunk or impaired driving)? Consequently, following that logic if you disobey the speed limit, you are as good as an attempted murderer.
you are claiming that driving 5 miles over the speed limit and drunk driving are equivalent or nearly equal acts.
Hell no I’m not. Now that is an absurdly stupid thing to say. Where did those standards come from? 5 MPH vs. Drunk? i could just as easily say you are claiming that going 120 in a 65 is equivalent to having a glass of wine at dinner before driving home. Is “drinking and driving” in that situation worse than speeding?
This country’s got it’s head so far up it’s PC sanctimonious ass it’s lost much perspective.
I wouldn’t bring this up if Smitty were the person who was going through this ordeal. Obviously, hyperbole is understandable when personally faced with this tragedy, and I lost a good friend 8 years ago myself. But since I hear this crap parrotted ad nauseum and everywhere, I felt like weighing in.
If getting behind the wheel after a couple of drinks makes you an attempted murderer, then so does
Speeding/not adhering to traffic laws
Being an octegenarian driver, or anybody older than dirt that still drives
Texting/and cellie chatting while driving (I’ve had my life flash in front of me three times on the road, each time b/c of females + cell phones)
Having sex while driving
etc.
And please, before another dim bulb pretender like greenie tries to high horse me about the tragic impacts of drunk driving, let me just say:
I get it. It IS a big deal. And I don’t do it.
Point is, people just drone this spiel over and over until it becomes some sort of established gospel. And I’m saying there’s a big fat inconsistent layer of hypocrisy propping it up.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Apr 20, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Drinking and driving
Is not per se murder (neither are those other things), but I’m not sure why you just assume that all dangerous/illegal activities are created equal. Neither the law nor common sense support that proposition.
by brettgardner on Apr 20, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
Someone driving the limit, but recklessly, is a much more dangerous than someone speeding, yet in control. And I’m not sure that drunk driving can be considered anything but extremely reckless. Like Brett said you can’t compare them and find them equal
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott
by ReallyCreativeScreenName on Apr 20, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No worries officer
I realize I was drivin 70 in a 35, but it was a controlled double the legal limit .
Nothing to see here. Carry on and go catch those reckless limit drivers, that’s the ticket.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Apr 21, 2009 6:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ehh
My point has simply been that being in control while driving makes it safer, not that we shouldn’t enforce speed limits or that everyone should drive as fast as they like as long as they’re careful….I have to be honest, I get what you’re trying to say though. I’m just not too sure why this is such a big argument. Both speeding and drunk driving are illegal and contribute to many fatalities every year. I don’t think they are necessarily comparable, but then again, there are so many factors that could even make speeding just as dangerous as drunk driving, if not more so.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott
by ReallyCreativeScreenName on Apr 21, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh.
Is not per se murder (neither are those other things),
No kidding. But not according to Smitty’s friend and apparently everyone else on this thread.
but I’m not sure why you just assume that all dangerous/illegal activities are created equal.
I’m not.
Neither the law nor common sense support that proposition.
If the law supported it, wtf would I bring it up? And common sense is the point. It’s MIA here. I’m saying that this statement, “Anyone that gets behind the wheel after they’ve had a few drinks is as good as a murderer,” one you can hear almost daily these days, is ridiculously over the top. And that there’s a double standard in this country: Any type of dangerous, selfish driving is no big deal in this country, as long as there wasn’t a drop of alcohol involved.
I’ll give you an example. My last bidness trip was about a 4 hr drive. I rode up with a co-worker, who averaged about 88-93 the entire way, which was compounded by the fact that he is a serial tailgater. I mean he was on people’s ASS the whole trek. For purposes of this analogy, assume we were in an accident that was our fault, landing me in the hospital. Two nights later, 4-5 of us went out for tapas. We left after 2 hrs, w/ the driver having had 3 glasses of wine. Assume we were rear ended, putting me in the hospital again, the cops came, did a routine sobriety check, and told the driver she was this close to being hauled in for DUI.
Knowing all that, how big of a disparity do you think there would be between the way speeder guy was viewed as opposed to 3 glass of wine gal? I’d say it’s 50/50 3 wine glass gets to keep her job. Speeder guy, on the other hand, is effin golden.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Apr 21, 2009 6:36 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with this sentence
Any type of dangerous, selfish driving is no big deal in this country, as long as there wasn’t a drop of alcohol involved.
100%.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Apr 21, 2009 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm confused by what about that you agree with.
by brettgardner on Apr 21, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean
that most people drive like assholes and think nothing of it, cutting you off, driving way over the speed limit no matter what condition the road is in, refusing to allow youto merge, changing lanes frequently in some vain attempt to find a magic lane with no cars in it or something…people drive this way constantly, but the instant you have a drink you’re a murderer.
I completely applaud the efforts to stop drunk driving, but I wish people would simply drive more intelligently every day.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Apr 21, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anybody
Is arguing that activities other than drinking and driving can have disastrous consequences.
I’m still confused why you think an asshole is no different than a physically-impaired person (who is also an asshole). One is clearly more dangerous than the other in the aggregate.
So it’s the act itself that’s the evil, not the individualized results. It’s the reason we have “attempt” as a crime.
If you disagree that drinking and driving is more dangerous than any other reckless driving on policy grounds, well, I guess there’s no dissuading you. But I don’t think that makes people who do believe in a difference dunces.
by brettgardner on Apr 21, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's saying that at all.
Sounds to me like he’s merely noting the hypocricy of saying that one reckless act is an absolute evil, while all the other lesser but still reckless as hell acts are completely ignored and considered okay.
And I kind of agree with that.
I find drunk driving abhorrent. I’ve never driven even slightly drunk, and I never, ever will. It’s something I feel strongly about. If I don’t have enough money to pay for a cab home, or enough sense to have a ride home, then I don’t need to be drinking anyway was always my feeling.
But I think Brian is right to note how aloof people are about other forms of horribly dangerous driving that goes on all around us.
I had a co-worker who was an absolute menace on the road. No one wanted to drive with him to any meeting, ever. He drove ridiculously fast at all times and tailgated non-stop. He’d do things like say, “Watch how mad this guy gets when I cut him off,” and then cut the guy off. Psycho. He had three radar detectors on his dash, and people in the office laughed about it. Three machines in his car specifically designed to help him break the law in a way that endangered everyone around him and put lives at risk. Can you imagine if someone came into the office bragging about having a machine in his car to help him pass a breathalyzer when he drove drunk? He’d be fired on the spot and likely arrested. One day he came in bitching about how he’d gotten like a $500 ticket (I forget the exact number… but it was crazy) near our office for going 70 in a 25. And no one said shit, cause endangering lives in that manner is fine.
And then there’s my sister, who texts while driving. Not talks on the phone, not reads her texts, but actually types out whole text messages while driving 75 down the freeway. And then she looks at me like I’m crazy when I scream at her for it. And refuses to stop doing it.
Finally, my friend in college got t-boned by a woman going 50mph in a 35 who had run a red light because SHE WAS EATING A GOD DAMNED SALAD OFF HER LAP WHILE DRIVING. He famously told us that she got out of the car crying and covered in ranch dressing, “It was like the ending of snuff film.” His hip was completely crushed to the point where it required multiple surgeries and was never the same again. If she’d been drinking she’d’ve likely gotten a prison sentence or at the very least some jail time and lost her job, but because she was eating a salad out of her lap and that kind of reckless idiocy is completely okay in our society, she got nothing at all. No criminal complaint of any kind.
So, yah.
I get what he’s saying about the hypocrisy of saying that drunk driving is murder and the lengths we go to shun and punish those who do, and the general level of tolerance we afford other types of reckless driving.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 21, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again,
That’s just a public policy choice. It’s not hypocrisy. I don’t think anyone lauds reckless drivers.
And as for your example—did your friend attempt to have criminal actions brought? Civil action? Was there any proof she was eating a salad when she ran the red light?
My point is that recklessness is often hard to prove after the fact, while BAC is not.
by brettgardner on Apr 21, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not talking about it from a legal perspective.
I’m talking about how the two subjects are viewed by society as a whole.
The way people laugh as my psycho ex-coworker shows off his radar detecetion array and commiserate with him as he bitches about being caught going 70 in a 25 (and other things of this nature), but then turn around and immediately condemn anyone who drives drunk as an attempted murderer.
That seems hypocritical to me.
As for my friend, he looked into it but didn’t end up suing. Apparently it’s hard to sue for that kind of thing in Florida and the best he could realistically hope for was a lot of hassle for a lit bit of money and the medical bills being paid for, and since she was already paying his medical bills (likely for this exact reason), he chose not to sue, since at that point he’d’ve had to start paying his own medical bills (with money he didn’t have) and then hope for later reimburcment.
And, yes, I believe there could be no denying she was eating the salad while driving. It was all over the car when the cops showed up and according to him she admitted as much to the cops while he was being put in the ambulence. She did, after all, had ranch splatter all over her. Though I suppose if it wasn’t specifically in the accident report you’re right she could claim at trial that she wasn’t eating the salad and had merely been holding in her lap. I never asked about the accident report so I can’t comment on that.
I remember talking with him one night as he noted that this woman had basically ruined his life (and could have killed him) by doing something incredibly irresponsible and dangerous, and hadn’t even lost her license because of it.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 21, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
I was beginning to feel like I was speaking Cantonese.
I’m talking about how the two subjects are viewed by society as a whole.
The way people laugh as my psycho ex-coworker shows off his radar detecetion array and commiserate with him as he bitches about being caught going 70 in a 25 (and other things of this nature), but then turn around and immediately condemn anyone who drives drunk as an attempted murderer.
That seems hypocritical to me.
That’s my point to a tee.
My stepfather has a 90 year old uncle who ran a red light and killed the 2 people in the other car he smashed into. My stepfather said he had been telling his cousin for years that his uncle shouldn’t be driving. But the cousin who lived 2 blocks away from his Dad never did anything.
No big deal. He’s old. He couldn’t help it blah blah. Cousin can’t tell Dad what to do, he’s independent blah blah.
And 2 people are just as dead, but nobody really did anything wrong. It’s just an accident.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Apr 21, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're not speaking Cantonese
Just because I disagree with you.
by brettgardner on Apr 21, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was speaking cantonese because you kept misrepresenting my point of view.
Me: I like lots of colors, but black is my favorite.
You: Ridiculous. There are plenty of good colors, I don’t get why you think black is the only color we should use.
It’s kind of exasperating when someone keeps disagreeing with a point you aren’t making.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Apr 21, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK.
You are much more intelligent than I am, and I will refrain from exasperating you.
by brettgardner on Apr 21, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This...
The way people laugh as my psycho ex-coworker shows off his radar detecetion array and commiserate with him as he bitches about being caught going 70 in a 25 (and other things of this nature)
…is an awful act capable of horrible consequences, but, to me, it’s simply not as dangerous to society as an impairment of the brain while driving. Thus, I don’t have any problem with society treating them differently. If we’re just quibbling over the level of that difference, then OK.
by brettgardner on Apr 21, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course we're just quibbling over the level of that difference.
And noting how strange it is that one (admittedly worse act) is so vilified and another (admittedly less reckless act, but still reckless as hell act) is viewed as not really being wrong at all by society at large.
I don’t think anyone here ever said that drunk driving isn’t “worse” than texting while driving or speeding.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 21, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exasperated
Because of this:
another (admittedly less reckless act, but still reckless as hell act) is viewed as not really being wrong at all by society at large.
Why are you assuming that? That’s the common thread through yours and Brian’s posts, and the assumption comes from some anecdotal evidence that you’ve extrapolated to some larger point.
But the reality is that the laws don’t agree with that point (and the laws are representations of what society thinks/feels), because reckless driving, criminal negligence, etc. are all criminal acts.
The fact that you guys have come across some douchebags who don’t get mad at another douchebag just isn’t sufficient to make this overly-broad point.
by brettgardner on Apr 21, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is you seem to think I'm making a point I'm not making.
I’m just talking about the way these things are viewed by people in general, which is what this whole post is about…. it’s about a possionate e-mail declaring that drunk driving is murder!!! and it just sort of got me wondering why we seem to hear people talk like this all the time but yet we seem to be rather cavalier about other dangerous riving offenses.
When’s the last time you got an impassioned plea not to speed?
Or got a form letter from Mothers Against Texting While Driving?
Again, I don’t think we’re disagreeing quite as much as you seem to think we are.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 21, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I really think this triad argument that you, Brian and I have going is a case of ships passing in the night, because I feel we do strongly disagree, but I will concede the point because I’m trying to get over my immature habit of constantly having to argue.
by brettgardner on Apr 21, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And also:
I’m reminded how broad your argument is by reading in the DMN today about Dwayne Goodrich, who was not drinking and driving, but rather just recklessly driving when he killed two people.
by brettgardner on Apr 21, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm... that's the first I'd read of that incident.
How are you saying that fits with my argument?
And it reads to me like he pretty clearly was drinking and driving, though no one knows for sure if he was “drunk” at the time cause he fled the scene and didn’t get taken into custody until 21 hours later.
My guess is had he been completely sober and stayed at the scene of the accident rather than fleeing, he’d probably not have seen prison, or at least not as much.
But I’m not familiar with the precise laws in Texas, so I may be entirely wrong about that bit.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 21, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are.
He was charged with criminally negligent homicide, which has nothing to do with fleeing the scene (that’s just another charge).
by brettgardner on Apr 21, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although
You may have been right that he received more jail time than he would have had he stayed at the scene (because of the fleeing charge).
by brettgardner on Apr 21, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But didn't the fact that he was proved to be drinking all night play into the recklessness conviction?
Or at the very least, didn’t it effect sentencing?
Or does that only come into play if someone is proven to be drunk by a conculsive scietific method beyond a reasonable doubt?
Sounds to me from some of the quotes from people involved in the trial like the fact he had been drinking all night was big part of the trial.
I would think that if a stone cold sober person were involved in something like that, and didn’t flee for almost a whole day, that they wouldn’t see prison time… or at least not as much. But, you seem to have a pretty good grasp of the law being a law student and all, so I’ll defer to you if you say it’s the case.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 21, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't
Have enough memory of the facts to answer those questions.
But whatever the case, the jury did sentence him to less than the state was seeking.
And criminal negligence does not require intoxication, but whether or not prosecutions frequently occur in its absence I just wouldn’t know.
by brettgardner on Apr 21, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed.
And criminal negligence does not require intoxication
I’m just thinking that it played a role in how this particular case was prosecuted.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 21, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is both a matter of policy and realism
First, there is no MASEWD (Mothers Against Salad Eating While Driving) to push legislation against open salad containers. I think this point is hard to understate. MADD and other organizations have done a great job of demonizing drinking and driving. That is both smart and effective policy on their part.
In addition, drunk driving legislation got traction for the reason that alcohol has a history of being a regulated substance, and it seems somewhat an obvious that tipsy = bad for driving.
The reason cell phone regulations have been harder to implement is that most people honestly believe that they can talk on their phone while driving, since they eat, drink hot coffee, smoke, put on makeup, tie their ties, shave, yell at their husband/wife/kids, brush their dog, etc. while they drive. Plus the added fact that there is a HUGE industry built around cell phones (which were originally called car phones, for you kids out there). I think that it wasn’t until cell phone companies realized they could make as much money off hands-free accessories for the cars that the anti-cell phone bans were able to get traction in states like California and New York.
The point is, while there is a double standard, it is due in large part to policy reasons. If you hate people texting while driving, call your legislator, donate to the special interest groups trying to demonize that.
I can’t get angry that DUI/DWI or whatever it is called is demonized. I think it should be. I also think that cops should spend more time going after reckless drivers and teenage girls texting and less time in speed traps looking for people going 5 mph over the speed limit when everyone on the road is going the same speed.
by JBImaknee on Apr 21, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I very much agree with this.
I can’t get angry that DUI/DWI or whatever it is called is demonized. I think it should be. I also think that cops should spend more time going after reckless drivers and teenage girls texting and less time in speed traps looking for people going 5 mph over the speed limit when everyone on the road is going the same speed.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 21, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
I think JBImaknee nailed it.
The reason why there is such a difference between the demonizing of drunk driving and the non-demonizing of reckless driving is the lengths that MADD and other organizations have gone to make sure that drunk driving is seen as abhorrent (and rightly so).
The problem if I understand it from Brian is that there’s hyperbole in talking about drunk driving and under-hyperbole in talking about reckless driving when both can lead to life changing consequences.
Perhaps, another factor is that, in one, you have control over avoiding injuring others (though probably not as much with tailgating), and the other your control is severely handicapped.
R
by Requiem on Apr 21, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously SMITTY isn't the
the author, he says so in the first paragraph. But yeah I’m dim-witted for calling you out for being an asshole to a guy who wrote a letter about how drunk driving has changed his life forever. Are you really this inconsiderate in real-life? And why wouldn’t the standard be 5-10 mph? That is typical. Drunk driving usually occurs when the driver is drunk…duh.
by Agreen07 on Apr 20, 2009 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Explaining anything to you is like trying to sell roses at a fish market
And why wouldn’t the standard be 5-10 mph? That is typical. Drunk driving usually occurs when the driver is drunk…duh.
Statements like that. That’s what I’m referring to when I speak of your dimwittedness.
And how can I be an asshole to a guy who’s not on LSB? Are my cynical thoughts osmoting across the tubes and somehow worming their way into Smitty’s friend who he’s never met’s inner consciousness?? Also dim.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Apr 21, 2009 6:43 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder if Brian Thomas has ever previewed his own comments before posting them.
If so, by his own logic, he’s completely heartless, and incredibly ignorant.
Ya....That's Real Mature.
by SMITTY on Apr 20, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if you've ever had an original thought
Feel free to point me to my ignorance.
Can you do it in your own words, or do you need to collect your notes?
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Apr 20, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, that last comment was unnecessarily dickish
I apologize.
But you still don’t know what you are talking about.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Apr 20, 2009 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would argue
that driving 5+ is not unsafe at all, just not legal. It would be ridiculous for policy makers to make the speed limit the maximum speed at which they deemed driving could occur safely. They would be wise to have a buffer zone to account for people who will speed. So while speeding may be unethical concerning public policy, it may not be immoral concerning public safety.
by kevinkinsler on Apr 20, 2009 10:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Weird thread.
I had a drunk driving accident last year. I thoroughly believe drunk driving is correctly demonized, although I don’t necessarily agree with the way the corrections system treats drunk drivers. There should probably be more of a treatment angle and less of a punitive angle.
Most drunk driving fatalities are caused by recidivists, but there’s a lot of normalizing that people do when it comes to drinking behaviors. People normalize their drinking to their companions, and they normalize their behaviors connected with their drinking to those people, as well. There’s a fairly large portion of the population that not only doesn’t stigmatize drinking and driving, but also sees a DWI or a “not remembering how I got home” incident as not that unusual. That’s a problem, and obviously some aspects of the “demonization” of drunk driving haven’t been particularly effective.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Apr 21, 2009 5:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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