Saturday morning things
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2009 9:15 AM CDT
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PrintJust call Michael Young "Hansel," because he's so hot right now...
Part of what made last night's win feel so good is the fact that it is the type of game that this team, the past few years, seems like it would have lost. Vicente Padilla was getting squeezed and saw his pitch count go up early, but rather than have a meltdown and get yanked after five, he settled down and gave the Rangers 7 innings, thus keeping the soft underbelly of the bullpen from being exposed.
Michael Young made a huge defensive play. Elvis Andrus made a great play to save a run. Marlon Byrd got a key run home in the 8th by busting it down the line and getting on base on a play where he should have been out by just hustling, and then made an incredible play in the 9th to snag a long foul ball against the wall.
And you know? I'm already starting to get sad over the fact that Byrd is likely gone after this season. I like what he brings to this team.
Evan Grant talks about all the big plays made late in the game yesterday that contributed to the win.
Jeff Wilson has a quote from Ron Washington in his game story, saying that he made the decision to go with Chris Davis against George Sherrill rather than send Andruw Jones up to pinch hit because Davis is someone the team is going to be depending on to produce, and he wanted to show he has confidence in him. And personally, I don't have a big problem with that.
Wilson also has a plethora of notes up, including the news that Kris Benson is expected to be ready to be activated from the d.l. as soon as his 15 days is up, and that the Rangers aren't interested in Pedro Martinez.
T.R. Sullivan says that the Rangers are sticking with David Murphy, and have no plans to send him down to AAA.
Sullivan also says that Scott Feldman wasn't happy about getting bumped to the bullpen at the end of spring training, and is excited about getting a shot back in the rotation.
And Richard Durrett has some notes and observations from the game yesterday.
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I made the decision to not watch last night's game
So I could finish and a paper and study for next week’s two finals. Of all the games this week I choose not to watch…
Stupid law school.
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
Byrd
Do you bring him back next year if he is fine with a 2 year contract?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
For how much?
2 years, $6 million? Sure.
2 years, $16 million? No.
And I suspect he’s going to be looking for a big deal…this is his once chance to get a significant contract.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, same here
Selfishly, I would love to keep him here at a reasonable rate in a 4th OF/DH/clubhouse glue role.
But I really like the guy and want him to land a big payday somewhere. He’s earned it.
Keith Law: (1:45 PM ET ) I think Michael Young should shut his mouth and move to third base.
Byrd
The problem with keeping him around is that Murphy’s ideal role is as a 4th outfielder and you have Boggs as well, both of whom are much cheaper.
I like Byrd as well, but the way the team is constructed I just don’t how you justify what it will cost to keep him around.
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
What about something like 10-12 million
With a team option/buyout for a 3rd year
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
who do you consider the 3rd OF on this team?
or do you account for borbon by then?
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Presumably he's thinking
Cruz-Borbon-Hamilton in the OF next year.
That’s what I was thinking.
Yep
Or if not that — if, for example, you move Cruz at the ASB or this offseason, to a team looking for a good, cheap middle of the order bat — you still have the Murphy/Boggs platoon you can run in LF.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Cruz
would need to be a really good return to trade him and go with murphy/boggs.
Id rather see them trade byrd at the deadline
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
If Cruz continues the play the way he's playing
He could bring a monstrous return.
If I was JD, I’d hate to deal him, but at the same time I’d be listening for Godfather offers.
If Cruz continues to play like he's playing
There’s only a small handful of pitchers around the league that will even make that deal work. Great power bat, good plate discipline, great defense, and under team control for 4 more seasons after this year.
The problem with trading Cruz is that I can’t see his value to the Rangers being matched. I don’t think the Rangers will get that good of a pitcher in return for Cruz (on his own) and I don’t think we should trade a good all-around player just because of our need for pitching.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Trade
Thats kind of my thinking, I just don’t see what legit starting pitcher they would get who would equal the value of a power hitting right fielder.
but we’ll deal with that when and if the time comes
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Cruz
Odds of him continuing to play like he’s playing now aren’t good.
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Why?
His slugging is still ridiculously high, but his BA/OBP look like something that could be reasonably expected from him given his potential.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Because
The odds of someone “finding it” at age 28 just aren’t that good.
There’s a reason he spent something like 5 years in AAA. He’s never had long-term sustained success in the majors. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think what he did last September and this April should cause us to forgot all the other opportunities he had and failed.
I would sell high if I could.
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Cruz has done it. He's beat the odds.
He might “only” slug .580 on the season, but he has learned how to layoff pitches he can’t hit.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
Yup.
Dude is for real.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
...and that right there is the big difference.
He hasn’t suddenly gotten a new swing or suddenly grown new muscles. Something finally clicked in his head about pitches he can’t hit and thus he’s been able to lay off them instead of chasing them out of the strike zone. That could happen at any age, since it’s a mental thing.
upgrading tools is pretty much impossible at that age
but changing his approach at the plate is what Cruz has been able to accomplish, allowing him to actually use his bat the right way
by kevinkinsler on Apr 25, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep
It’s not like he’s a career .350 slugger who has gone a power tear out of nowhere. Guy has always had massive power, he’s cut down on the hacking away, and that’s something that can happen at age 28.
Who cares about the odds?
Like rooster just said, he has beat the odds. It happens all the time. Just take a look at Ryan Ludwick, Carlos Pena, etc. Players bust out each year even though they are in their late 20s/early 30s.
Selling high isn’t an option for Cruz. Right now, you could get a decent return for him but nothing that spectacular. There is a great chance though that it be selling low.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
If you trade Cruz...
…it is to get a legit starting pitcher in return.
You aren’t going to get that for Byrd.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Not sure if you get that for Nelson Cruz either
because of his unproven track record at the big league level. And the fact that he’s about to be 29. Sure you’ll get interest if he maintains his current 153 OPS+, but I don’t think the players other teams will be offering will make it worth it to trade him. I’d love to be wrong about this.
Well
Not for just Cruz. But Byrd is going to be a guy that a playoff contender would want and would give you a prospect or two for.
Cruz is a guy you’d package with prospects on your end to get someone.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I have my doubts
that teams are going to be so gaga over Cruz they send a major arm this way.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
And you never know
Golson might be able to be a 4th OF as well.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
OF
I’d like to see, left to right, Davis-Borbon-Hamilton, with Murphy and Boggs in reserve, although I would be okay with a Murphy-Boggs platoon in LF.
If the Rangers got a nice offer for Cruz, or could include him in a package for a good starting pitcher, I would take it.
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Davis?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
With the FO stressing defense I doubt we see Davis move to the OF
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
That would be terrible to watch
When we have so many options for the OF who can at least provide average defense in LF.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
So we are moving
Chris Davis to DH? Because Smoak is our starting 1B next season. I wanted to trade CD for Greinke last year and everyone got pissed at me for suggesting that idea.
Can we just wait
and see what happens with Smoak this summer before we anoint him? I’m pretty confident he’ll be the starting 1B next year, if not in April then not before too long, but we should be moving Davis just yet. And you never know what could happen. Davis could be traded for pitching this summer and Max could be the DH next year.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Davis should not be traded
his value is extremely low relative to just before the season. He will not be traded for stud pitching at this moment.
Duh
His value could change dramatically by late July, though.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
I don't expect it
but as aggressive as Daniels is you never know.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Is JD that agreesive?
He didn’t trade any of the catchers. He didn’t trade Milton Bradley. He didn’t trade Hank Blalock. Just saying, when/if JD trades Davis at the deadline I don’t think he’ll be happy with the return CD brings. But yes if he heats up soon, things might change. The way CD is playing that’s a big if though.
He is
I must have missed that part where it was guaranteed he is our starting 1B next year.
I think he won’t be up till May of next year at the earliest.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
greinke
you would have also needed to include andrus and probably another decent piece.
and i’ll worry about smoak when smoak gets there.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
andrus
all i remember reading is andrus would have to be part of it, because the royals gm was part of the group that brought him to the braves system.
the royals arent going to just give greinke away
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
I don't know that they would've done that even if it was Feliz.
In fact, I don’t think they would’ve.
Why people think they were seriously considering dealing their very young stud TORG for anything less than a bowl-them-over-to-the-point-of-absurdity type deal is beyond me.
It’s like me saying I was saying I would’ve dealt Davis for Lincecum or David Price.
In all likelihood it just wasn’t going to happen.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
That isn't the case at all
Davis for Lincecum? Greinke wasn’t nearly on Lincecum’s level. And a deal of Teagarden, Andrus and one of the young pitchers would have gotten it done. They need prospect depth.
No it wouldn't.
That’s silly.
No one deals a young stud SP because they need prospect depth.
Fuck prospect depth.
This isn’t the A’s dealing Dan Haren cause they kinda had to, and Andrus, Tea and one of the young pitchers is a worse deal than the A’s got for Haren anyhow.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Please
nobody ever said it would require Holland or Feliz…not one person. I think you’re looking at it considering how good Greinke is doing this year. You can’t look at it like that because we were discussing this before the trade deadline last year. At the time in June they were an awful team record wise. 26-42 at one point.
holland / feliz
I do agree, i never heard that either would need to be included.
But you can bet they’d probably be asked about
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
It's fine that you think that.
Although I’m talking about what it’d’ve taken this off season.
And if you look at the way KC went about their business this off season, this is not a team that’s gonna deal a young stalwart for “prospect depth”. That’s stupid.
And no I’m not looking at considering his insanely hot start.
I’ve long been a lover of the Grink and I’m telling you that it’d’ve taken a whole hell of a lot to get him out of KC this Winter.
I really don’t think Andrus, Tea and, say, Boscan or Beavan or Main would’ve gotten him this Winter, pre-extension. I really don’t.
When good young pitchers get dealt they bring back crazy packages.
He was really, really good last year and showed all sorts of signs he might be ready to finally make the leap this year. Plus he’s so freaking young. People forget how young he is cause it seems like he’s been around forever.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Andrus/Holland or Feliz/3rd piece
That’s probably the minimum you’re giving up. The Royals were looking to compete this year and wanted Greinke locked up long term. To get that from them, you would have had to give up a lot more than he was probably worth.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
no way
holland or feliz needed to be included. Hell people had a problem with Hurley + Andrus back then.
The contract talks with Greinke makes the price jump up
If KC was looking to trade him instead of resign him, Hurley+Andrus is probably a more reasonable starting point.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Yah, like Neftali and Holland.
I don’t think people are being realistic about what it would’ve taken to get Grink out of KC.
And the only way they would’ve traded him for a non-insane (ie, overpaying through the nose) package would’ve been if he had decided he wasn’t amenable to an extension and was deadset on testing FA, in which case we’d’ve been mortgaging a huge part of our future for a guy who’d’ve been very likely to leave after ’10.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Disagree
It’s LF, not SS or CF we are talking about here.
The difference in offensive production you would get from good DH vs. something like a Murphy-Boggs platoon in LF more than offset the lesser defense in a non-key position.
Davis has a good arm and played OF his first year in the minors. It’s not a hard position.
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
No...
MaxRam will be the DH next year. The OF will be Hamilton, Borbon, Cruz and Davis will be at 1B.
I will worry about Smoak when he forces his way in, but I don’t think that will be ’til sometime mid-season next year.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
So Max is definitely gonna be here
But Smoak is gonna have to force his way up?
Have you seen how each have started the year. Neither look right now like they will be in the majors in 12 months. Alot can change but Max hasn’t shown anything above AA to suggest he will be in Arlington this year or the beginning of next year
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Exactly
Of the two right now Smoak looks to be the better bet right now to be in the majors at the start of next year.
I just fail to see how Max is such a lock to be a good ML hitter based on strictly his AA and below stats. Because his AAA and ML stats aren’t very good
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
SLC for one
MaxRam will be the DH next year
And im sure hes not the only one
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Nor should I be...
the guy has hit at every level he has been at. You can’t say he hasn’t done shit above AA just because of two weeks to start the year. That’s crap.
And you are going to base Smoak looking better right now off of what? Talk about short sample size. I’m sure Smoak is going to be a beast and displace Davis at 1B, but I don’t see that happening ‘til June or so next year. MaxRam is farther along right now. Smoak needs to put up MaxRam #’s at Frisco before he can be considered closer to playing with the Rangers than MaxRam.
Try not to act like everyone who doesn’t agree with you is stupid. Opinions vary.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Just because of two weeks?
Umm no. Try last year as a whole. His ML numbers sucked and his AAA numbers sucked. You can give whatever excuses you want but they did. And he has started this year off just the same. I hope for nothing more than for him to be a big time RH power bat for us but until he starts hitting upper minors pitching I am very very skeptical
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Wow...
ALL last year. So his 46 AB’s with the Rangers and his 37 AB’s with OKC. Really?
Last year as a whole he spent most of the time tearing up Frisco. I think you need to look at his #‘s again. He had 243 AB’s with Frisco last year and put up a line of .354 / .450 / .646. That’s an OPS of almost 1.100.
You can be skeptical all you want about him. However if that’s your argument, exactly what has Smoak done against upper minors pitching so far to make you reply to my earlier statment the way you did?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
My reply
I think I made it clear that neither of them are ready for the majors now or look to be in the next 12 months when I said this
Neither look right now like they will be in the majors in 12 months
But based on their starts so far this year and Smoaks far superior defense if I had to choose one of the two to be in the majors in 12 months I would have to choose Smoak.
I am very skeptical of Max. I am fully aware of his AA numbers but he hasn’t done anything above there small sample size be damned. And his start this year hasn’t exactly done anything to change that skepticism I have
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Me.
I think the bat’ll play.
He’s started slow, but he’s torn up AA to a ridiculous degree and made the Winter league he was in his prison bitch.
He’ll be fine.
Though unfortunately I think it’ll be somewhere else as we have no room at catcher and he’s wasted at DH/we have better long term options there.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
LF at the Ballpark is harder than your typical LF
Plus we have Murphy, Boggs, Golson, Hamilton, and Cruz right now who can all play in LF and provide at least above average defense. We have even more guys in the levels beneath them who are potential options too. This team has shown a clear desire to improve the defense at every position to give the pitchers the best chance they can get. They won’t be putting in a well below average defensive player into the OF when they can just DH him. And 36 games in the OF in 2006 where Davis was below average isn’t proof that he can play the position without butchering it.
All of this assumes that Smoak tears up the minors and is the starting 1B next year.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Defense
While the team has shown a desire to improve the defense, that hasn’t been with total disregard for offense. Otherwise, Teagarden would be catching instead of Salty and Hamilton wouldn’t be in CF.
An OF of Hamilton-Borbon-Davis would be better than our current OF, because of the significant improvement in the much more important position.
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Salty isn't hurting this team defensively
Teagarden helps the team more defensively, but you aren’t losing runs by playing Salty back there instead of him. You wouldn’t be able to say the same with Davis in the OF. There would be a pretty clear hole in LF and you would have to rely on Hamilton and Borbon to be great enough to make up for that.
Why is Davis at DH not an option?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
But....
My point that the team isn’t ignoring the offense is correct, particularly in CF. Hamilton is not a good CF, and that’s a much more important position than LF. I think they are taking a more balanced approach, which appears like they are stressing defense more than they are, given how it was ignored a few years ago. It’s relative.
Regarding Davis, I don’t like burying a 24-year old as a DH unless they are simply horrible, which I’m convinced he would be. And I don’t like having average hitters in LF, since it’s the 2nd or 3rd least important defensive position on the field. You put Davis in LF, and given how cheap most of this team is going to be, you could go add a really really good middle-of-the-order hitter to be the DH.
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
All that said
If I’m wrong on Cruz, then I think you have to DH Davis, and use Cruz and Hamilton on the corners.
That would be a great outcome.
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
CF and Davis
Part of the problem this offseason was that there wasn’t a good option to replace Hamilton in CF. And Hamilton actually has been looking good out there in CF and the stats back it up. It makes it more of a moot point to talk about a need to move Hamilton if he keeps playing like he has.
Why waste money on a DH when you have a perfect option? I don’t like burying Davis at DH, but there’s nothing you can do about it without hurting the team.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
have you seen how slow Davis is?
I hate that idea
by texasraider on Apr 25, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Let's say...
…Murphy/Boggs are +10 in LF (which is probably conservative).
Let’s say Davis is -5 in LF (which might be optimistic, given his lack of speed).
Is your likely DH necessarily going to offer you +15 with the bat compared to a Murphy/Boggs platoon?
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Possibly
What would Manny give you.
Or Bonds last year?
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Neither are options though
Bonds was never an option here. And do you want to spend 20 million dollars on a DH? That’s a terrible way to spend that money for this team.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Bonds
Bonds was an option for 30 major league teams, Texas included. None of them took that option. And he wouldn’t have cost close to $20 million.
My point is that there will be better hitting options than a Murphy-Boggs platoon every year. Don’t get fooled into thinking our offense is better than it really is due to the ballpark we play half our games in.
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
He wasn't an option
If the fans don’t want to see him play in a Rangers uniform, the team has no interest dealing with his BS or the BS that comes with having Bonds around, and the front office made it clear that there is no interest in bringing him in as they have over the past few years, then he isn’t an option.
I don’t think our offense is better than it is because of the Ballpark. I think our offense is great because of the players we have going out there every day.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I don't think that's realistic
Is Max Ramirez (who is probably who would end up at DH under your scenario) at DH and Davis in LF greater than Davis at DH and Boggs/Murphy in LF?
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
No
If Ramirez would be the DH, then I’d rather see the Murphy/Boggs combination in LF and Davis at DH.
I would just hope we could do better than Max Ramirez at DH. We need to trade Ramirez to a team that thinks he’s a catcher in order to maximize his value.
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
What about Bobby Abreu?
Let’s assume it is Abreu…is Abreu and Davis at DH and LF better than Davis and M/B?
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Abreu
Not the 35-year old Abreu.
What about Adam Dunn or Pat Burrell though?
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
How are we going to get those guys, though? They're on multi-year deals.
And Bobby Abreu is a plenty good player. I don’t know what makes Pat Burrell so much of a better play that you’d want to expend prospects getting him and pay him more than Abreu would probably cost.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Like I said on this board somewhere
Vald Guerrero is ready to be a full time DH, and he’s right handed, and he’s a free agent.
Personally,
I’m not a big fan of tying up big bucks to declining players for DH. Especially when we have players who appear to have DH as their natural position.
4/10/09 - Josh Hamilton's last walk.
re:
My point is those types of players are generally going to be available every year to plug into the DH spot, not necessarily those specific guys.
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay, gotcha.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Dunn
Probably a 875-900 OPS guy here, and costs $10 million per year for 3 years. About a .380 wOBA.
Murphy/Boggs platoon probably gives you a .340 wOBA.
That’s a 20 run difference in offense.
So the net gain of Dunn/Davis over Davis/MB is 5 runs per year, assuming that the assumptions about defense above are right (and personally, I think that the difference between Davis and the MB combo in LF defensively may be higher).
You are paying $8 million for a half a win.
I’ll stick with MB.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Dunn
He would hit better than that here.
He has a career .300 EqA.
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
He has a career .300 EQA...
…largely in the weaker N.L.
And his last few seasons (before 2009) have been spent in two of the more hitter-friendly parks in the N.L.
But even if we use that, Dunn had 98 EQR last year. Murphy/Boggs, combining them and adjusting them to the same amount of PAs as Dunn, are at 83 runs.
So you have Dunn at 15 runs better than the Murphy/Boggs combo…once again, a wash.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
That makes no sense though
unless you have no faith in CD…cause Smoak should be up pretty early next year.
It's so early.
He’s looked butt ass awful in a lot of situations this year, but I keep telling myself that he’s so young and he dominated every level of minor league baseball on his way up and hit very well in the majors last year as well.
There’s a chance that all that was a mirage and he just plain can’t hit the ball if pitchers are gonna feed him a steady diet of good breaking balls, but given his track record I’m giving him until at least July before I start doubting his long time studliness.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd be interested to see
Vlad’s career numbers against everyone not the Texas Rangers. Just like Halladay probably has the best stats in baseball if not for his games against Texas, Vlad’s numbers probably take a drop without facing Texas
Don't forget
LF has been the most damaging position for the Rangers since the Ballpark opened. More than SS, more than CF, more than C. Rivaled only by pitchers unable to field their positions. And that is NOT UZR, +/-, FPCT, error rates or any other metric. That’s runs scored from poor play. Not runs calculated, actual runs given up because of defensive inadequacy. LF is a speed field, a coverage field, not so much an “arm” field. You simply cannot park a bat who isn’t a glove out there.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Apr 25, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Davis is traded before he's DH
I think only one of Smoak/Davis is on the 2011 Texas Rangers. The other one is out of the organization. Nothing against either of them, but it just doesn’t help to have two first basemen on the roster.
You’re better off having a DH who could be a 5th OF or play multiple positions in a pinch, or someone like Dunn or Thome who really is well suited just to DH. You can buy someone with 80% of Davis’s production to DH for not that much and trade Davis and come out ahead in that transaction.
Maybe not 2011 but I don't see both being here long term
I think the best route would be to keep both the next few years and play them almost 50/50 in the field and at DH. Then in a few years once one or both become arbitration eligible then you look to trade one (most likely Davis) and get a good return.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Why is Smoak at 1B instead of Davis?
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think that's a given right now
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Really?
I thought Smoak was supposed to be an excellent 1B.
Davis has improved, but not to that level.
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
So far, this season, Davis has been as good as we could ever home Smoak to be.
We’ll see if he keeps it up.
And even if Smoak is better
it won’t be enough better to really matter in the grand scheme of things if Davis is also pretty good.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
even at 3M/year
I don’t think we can afford him. If we can’t pay that kind of money for an 8th inning guy, I don’t see how we can pay it for a 4th OF.
If you take the worst pitching staff in baseball, then add Kris Benson and Jason Jennings, what do you have???
surprise!!! You have the worst pitching staff in baseball, that's what.
Byrd
Well this year we couldn’t afford an 8th inning guy because our payroll is almost 70 million.
I don’t think with a payroll in the mid 40s would keep us from resigning Byrd or anyone else if it was only for 3 mil
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I've got a hard time seeing how...
…a team committed to keeping its payroll below $70 million — particularly when the owner is having financial problems and has said he wants to slash payroll by $20 million for 2010 — can afford a $3 million per year 4th outfielder.
As it is, if Hicks really wants to keep the payroll at $50-60 million, rather than bumping it to $80 million or so, we are going to have to not get too attached to the guys who are coming up. If that’s the target payroll, then either Kinsler or Hamilton is going to have to go, Frankie will be gone after 2010, and we’ll see a bunch of other hard choices have to be made when guys are hitting arb-eligibility.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 25, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Where has Hicks said thats where he wants to keep it?
All the quotes Ive read merely say thats where its gonna be next year and its true with all our young talent. Unless you want to just start throwing money around for the sake of throwing money around and having a higher payroll its not gonna be very high next year or probably for a few years
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I think you're overreacting to the Hicks financial "crisis"
As is always pointed out, Hicks was willing to make the deal on Sheets and has been talking about spending money on the right players. The player-specific payroll. I think that Hicks is a lot more open to resigning players that have proven to play well here rather than risk it on other FA players. Byrd fits into that. He’s a fan favorite, gives the team everything he’s got each time he’s out there, is a great locker room guy, and on top of all that, is just a very good baseball player.
And Hamilton and Kinsler aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. Both are going to be here for at least the lengths of their current contracts which is 2012 (2013 when Kinsler’s option gets picked up). Kinsler is only making 17 million over the next 3 years and is probably one of the biggest bargains in baseball at that price. Hamilton, if he doesn’t get a new contract, isn’t going to be making that much in arbitration until 2011. Unless you think that the economy is going to look even worse 2 years from now, its hard to imagine Hicks forcing JD to get rid of them.
You’re still trying to make way too much out of one Hicks comment.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I think it's a huge unknown
we just don’t know how big his “crisis” is and how that will turn out. What they do on draft day and with the LA signings this summer will be very telling.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
According to Forbes, Hicks is worth 1.4 billion dollars
As bad as this crisis might be for Hicks, I have a hard time believing he is that poor where he will really hurt the team and constrict payroll that much. Hicks might not help things and give JD a 100 million dollar payroll to play with, but Adam is trying to say that Hicks will be letting arb-eligible players go because he can’t handle 2 million dollars for a player and will force JD to trade (or maybe release) Hamilton or Kinsler because the team can’t afford 15-20 million dollars for 2 superstar players. That just won’t happen. Hicks has owned the team for too long and seen too many seasons gone down the crapper to chop the team up at this point when the Rangers future is the best its been in years. I think he’d sell the team or let the bank take over before he starts treating this team like the Marlins.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
He's not going to put his own cash
into the payroll, especially when there are younger and cheaper options readily available. He may not force trades or releases to keep payroll artificially low, but he can (and has) have them lean hard in the direction of taking the cheaper option. His 1.4 billion is basically meaningless. He is not going to support the team with his own personal stash, and he doesn’t seem inclined to help the team’s debt service either. He operates the team as a business, as most owners do. And right now, business isn’t too good.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
The point is that he isn't broke
and isn’t in a situation where he’ll have to cut loose players that are making more than a few million dollars. He’s not going to run this thing totally out of his own pocket, but he can afford to lose a couple of million if it means seeing this team succeed. He’s lost money on this team before and didn’t do this then either.
The cheaper option is always the more attractive option. If you have 2 players for one spot and are very similar in their on the field value, are you going to take the move expensive player under team control for 2-3 years, or are you going with the guy making a few hundred thousand and under control for 4-5 more years. It could even be something like Harrison vs. Benson. I’d rather go with Harrison in the rotation over Benson, save about 350K, get the same crappy results, and know that I’m trying to develop a young player rather than just sticking with an old vet.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Well Hopefully...
…he realizes that if he lets good talent go, business will not improve. It takes money to make money in cases where the rebuilding process is as incremental as Texas’ is. This team will not be playoff caliber until 2011 or so at the earliest, and that’s including players like Hamilton and Kinsler in the mix. If you don’t keep them here they will be a .500 or so team forever. Bad for business.
by Black Francis on Apr 25, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, I fully expect
Hicks to approve keeping major talent around. When it comes time to extend Hamilton, for example, only a fool would let that kind of fan magnet walk away unless the price is just ridiculous. Same with Holland’s arbitration costs. If Holland is what we think, you’re more than happy to pay that.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
The Rangers need to continue with the Ian Kinsler plan...
lock players up early, for not too much. Boston has begun to utilize this concept as well.
The Rangers have been doing it for awhile now
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
How much does the GMJ debacle in Anaheim hurt/affect Byrd?
I know they are different players, and Byrd has been good multiple years here, but isn’t it possible that teams look at GMJ, see that ridiculous contract and failure, and fret about Byrd?
Not saying Byrd would ever get 5/55, but then again, GMJ shouldn’t have either…
I think the economy hurts Byrd more than the GMJ debacle does
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I think Byrd being
older and more expensive than every other option hurts him more than anything else, no matter what the economy is like.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Looking at the FA class for next year
These are the OFs that could be out there and hurt Byrd’s chances(asterisk is for players with an option)
Jason Bay
Carl Crawford*
Vladimir Guerrero
Matt Holliday
Manny Ramirez*
Magglio Ordonez
Johnny Damon
Rick Ankiel
Its still early to look at how these players’ values will be by the end of the season, but Byrd has some competition out there. There are some younger and older starting options there. The only thing is that there aren’t many good CF options, but I don’t think Byrd is viewed as much of a CF around the league. Mix in a bad economy and Byrd’s big payday probably won’t be as big as he would have hoped. Does anyone think he’ll get offered anything better than a 3/21 contract?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Doubtful.
And certainly not for a while, anyhow.
That option of his is one of the most forgoniest conclusions in all of pro sports right now.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Over at Fangraphs
Dave Cameron had this write-up on Crawford. If he disappoints again and remains a Ray all season, I can see them just letting him walk after the season.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Well if he continues posting a .700 OPS with a 25% k-rate like he is now, then, yah, sure.
But that’s a pretty damn affordable option.
You’d think at the very least some team would see the name and think maybe they could get some of the old CC back and deal for him.
I don’t see him getting declined.
That option is pretty damn reasonable, iirc. 8mm or so, right? I’m too zoned out to go look it up on Cot’s.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah
I think Byrd is preferable to many teams compared to an old Damon Vlad and Magglio, and the thing about lots of FAs leaving teams is that lots of teams then need OFers. But Byrd will be pretty low on the list.
I think he could get 3/21 or 3/24, but probably not that much more.
Probably more realistic
But I’m trying to think of what the best possible offer could be for him. The thing with a guy like Damon is that he’ll be a cheap 1 year option while someone like Maggs could end up taking that 20 million that a team might give Byrd. THere looks to be enough 1 year options out there along with more long term options that Byrd could be had for a reasonable price.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Yeah
I’d love to keep Byrd around but with Borbon coming up it doesn’t seem like it makes sense financially. It’s really similar to DeRosa imo.
meh
I’m fine with trading Borbon this offseason. I love what he brings to the table, but his offensive ceiling is limited. A lot of this depends on how Hamilton plays in CF this year. If he continues to play well, then I think you can sell high on Borbon and get a good return for him this offseason or next trading deadline and you roll with an OF similar to this year’s or last year’s. It gets you great defense and offense over the next couple of years. After that, maybe Beltre can fill our CF needs. Maybe Golson has stepped up in that time. You also have Tim Smith, Bianucci, Clark Murphy, and Mitch Moreland among some that could be ready for the OF 2 years from now.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Not sure what to make of Borbon
great speed, like Ellsbury. Not sure how much of an impact he would make though offensively if he has trouble getting on-base. He should be a defensive upgrade though.
That is something I'm going to rely on JD to take care of
If the option is Byrd or Borbon+Great bargain RP, then I’ll probably lean towards the latter. JD knows how much money he is working with and if Hicks would allow Byrd+Cruz type next offseason.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
If young is Hansel
does that make Davis zoolander?
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Can we...
Just have a few games where we easily win.
It seems the only way that we can win is for someone to have heroics in the late innings.
by death of the cool on Apr 25, 2009 9:57 AM CDT reply actions
What fun is that? Simple wins are too boring and easy
Walkoffs, come from behind wins, and last minute heroism are where it’s at.
I’ve heard some criticism of Friday Night Light (the series) because it seems like all the games come down to the final minute. Maybe the writers are just Rangers fans and are channeling the excitement of Rangers heroics into their high school football storyline.
Benson
Assuming the team isn’t ready to give up on him, who’s rotation spot is most at risk when he comes back?
I suspect it’s Harrison and not Feldman, unless Feldman bombs in his couple starts while Benson is on the DL.
by Darrell McKown on Apr 25, 2009 10:00 AM CDT reply actions
I was thinking the same thing
At least Feldman has had innings this year (1st inning last start) where he’s looked good.
Harrison just looks lost out there. I’d say if he bombs this next start, he’s going to AAA.
Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Thursdays 10 PM - 1 AM on FM 88.7 The Choice
"Computers can’t measure the size of a man’s heart."
- Hawk Harrelson, MLB Guru/Analyst
should say in parenthesis: his 1st inning of relief last game
Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Thursdays 10 PM - 1 AM on FM 88.7 The Choice
"Computers can’t measure the size of a man’s heart."
- Hawk Harrelson, MLB Guru/Analyst
Harrison
Because he has options and can be moved much more easily back and forth. If Feldman shows he is better as a starter then you simply dump Harrison down to OKC for a little bit and keep Feldman in the rotation
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I don't have a problem...
with Wash letting CD hit with the bases loaded in the 8th. Besides I really don’t want to see Jones play anymore 1B. Even for 1 inning.
I would however have PH Jones for Andrus in the 9th and then obviously but Vizquel in to play SS.
And that “soft underbelly of the bullpen” that you wanted to keep from being exposed AJM was warming up in the 5th. You didn’t want to see your boy Mendoza get a shot there?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Francisco
Lots of players made big contributions last night, but I can’t remember the last time I was this comfortable with the Rangers’ closer in the game.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Yeah...
I was thinking Wetteland, but even he seemed to put men on bases before shutting it out.
I remember liking Russell but I was too young to really know how good he was.
So when Benson comes back, Harrison goes down, right?
I don’t want to see them yank Feldman out of the rotation again.
Harrison needs to go down where he can be free to make some adjustments, cause the pitcher he is right now isn’t capable of being a major league caliber player, imo.
He nibbles like a little slut, doesn’t miss bats, and doesn’t seem to have any sort of an out pitch.
I know some people are still high on him long term, but I think some OKC time is the only answer at this point.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
yup..I'd like to see that
I also don’t want him to just move to the BP like some people have said. He needs to go down and start at AAA.
Harrison
He certainly belongs in AAA unless he can show something in his next start.
I’m just wondering if the team feels he can benefit more by staying in arlington and working with maddux
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Do you recall seeing any cutters from him in his last start?
Can’t say that I do. I think you are right. His pitching patterns have been different in each start. ONce he pitches backwards using all of his secondary stuff sans FB, then he uses all FB and no secondary stuff. He id definitely out of whack and sending him down will give him a chance to get his head straight. He is still young too so even if he was there all year, he’ll be the better pitcher for it next year.
Byrd
“And you know? I’m already starting to get sad over the fact that Byrd is likely gone after this season. I like what he brings to this team.”
Just like Dumpmaster.
I wish I could find video recaps that show the good plays on defense.
I would like to see Andrus’ great range.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
Same here
I want to see that play from the 8th or whenever it was last night.
an astonishing play
….to the orioles as well – the third base coach had to stop the runner rounding third so quickly that he almost tripped out of his shoes and fell into the coach.
I suffered from Erectile Dysfunction
now I just think of Brandon whenever I can’t get into the mood.
Adam -- on a roll lately.
¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!
by inactive lsb user on Apr 25, 2009 12:03 PM CDT reply actions
Adam Miller may be down for the count this time
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090424&content_id=4406884&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
by Brett Perryman on Apr 25, 2009 12:48 PM CDT reply actions
He was moving to the pen this spring
and a lot of people really did buy into the notion that he could break out this season. His stuff looked great over the winter.
by Brett Perryman on Apr 25, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't know he was from Plano.
¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!
by inactive lsb user on Apr 25, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
If TR says the team's committed to Murphy...
What is the plan for Borbon this year? You have to figure he’s the CF for the all-championship-players-on-the-field team JD envisions…
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Apr 25, 2009 12:54 PM CDT reply actions
Borbon can still use some time in the minors
Even with Murphy not playing everyday, you still have Byrd around to play. There isn’t a spot right now for Borbon to come up, play everyday, and develop in the Majors.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
And this is my point
Doesn’t it make more sense to start getting him ready on the ML level in 2009? But I mean, where?
All I can imagine is dealing Marlon (still a big if, considering JD will bargain based on the clubhouse leadership), then platooning Murphy and Borbon in CF.
That’s a nice plan actually, but it does leave Boggs out. It also consigns Jones to a strictly non-OF role (maybe that makes sense, too).
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Apr 25, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
murphy in CF?
I think that would be pretty bad.
If you take the worst pitching staff in baseball, then add Kris Benson and Jason Jennings, what do you have???
surprise!!! You have the worst pitching staff in baseball, that's what.
Butt ass terrible is the phrase you were looking for there.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair
Platoon him with Boggs, you break them both in. Even better if you want Boggs to come into a 4th OF role.
Murphy just keeps coming up the odd man out, so it’s weird hearing a vote of confidence.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Apr 25, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
I think Feliz, and Main, and Perez, and Smoak are all guys I would consider championship players so why not just put them on the field too.
Borbon needs a little more time in the minors. Thats all. When hes ready he’ll be up.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Granted, I thought this about Andrus too (and still do)
but I think that Borbon’s timetable may be a little slower than we’d like to think. He’s not quite the enormous leap defensively that one might envision. He’s a step or two up from what they have, certainly, and I think that he’ll probably be a plus CF, but he doesn’t have upper tier of the majors ability. And at this point he’d give you basically nothing offensively. In theory he profiles as the last missing positional part, but you can’t force something that’s just not ready to happen yet.
by Brett Perryman on Apr 25, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
In my dreams
Paisano and Pina both figure out the bat enough that they are close to league average at their positions and vacuums with the glove.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
I would love to see that two
Those 2 are so great on defense and have the tools to be at least good offensively.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
This liner for Irvin's show
“It takes a legend to find a star” might be the most brainless, insulting line ever.
I kind of wished they'd worked his blow habit into it somewhere.
Something like: “They want to be stars. He’ll show them how to get that high.” or something like that.
Of course I have no idea what that show is about.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"I guess it’s tough to look good when you play on the same team as Marcus Lemon." -Trip Somers.
"Congratulations, Mr. Somers. You just made THE LIST." -The Newberg, after reading the above comment.
by thedirkatron on Apr 25, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
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